If not the Jets would have just moved to 2 and the Giants get a decent haul while most likely still getting Nelson/Barkley.
Schefter also just said it's likely the first 3 picks are going to be QBs.
This! However, there is the thought that even if the Giants might be willing to trade the #2 it wouldn't be to the crosstown rivals. Bad PR move to give the Jests Rosen or Darnold.
I don't think this confirms that at all. I think the only thing it confirms is it puts pressure on the Browns to take a QB at 1. They can't risk the guy they like still being there at 4.
As for the Giants, while they might like and be targeting a QB at 2, what if it's the same one the Browns grab at 1? Does anyone think the Giants have two QBs rated the same or would settle on their second choice just because he's a QB? I don't.
They are in a huge position of strength here at 2, even more than before thanks to the Jets trade.
Not sloppy seconds. This isn't fantasy football where you have to draft a position this round or else. This high you have to go BPA if there is not a QB you absolutely love. If Darnold isn't there you'd be out of your mind to wage the franchise on a guy who has had 2 concussions in a year, a guy who has accuracy issues or Mayfield. One or all of those guys might be end up being good. Rosen might never have another concussion. But are you willing to bet on those things? Or take the sure bet in Barkley......or a massive trade down?
lot depends on how the Browns value the QBs. If their grades on Darnold, Rosen, and Allen aren't substantially different, then they may just take Barkley, knowing they'll still get one of he QBs at #4. That's probably what I would do. That would also make the Giants' pick more valuable, since anyone trading with us would get whatever QB they wanted. But even if the Browns take a QB, our pick is still valuable since the Jets will obviously take a QB at #3.
My guess as of right now:
If the Browns take a QB, we stay put at #2, and take Barkley.
If the Browns take Barkley, we trade out for a fortune.
Either one is fine with me.
Our spot has definitely increased in value now. We are in a perfect position to reap a goldmine worth of picks
Would you be happy if the Giants came away with Nelson and additional #1 and/or #2 picks in 2018/2019? I would.
Yeah. Absolutely. It would be hard to see a situation where I would not be in agreememt. After a few years we will look back and say maybe we should have done something different but I'd love Barkley, Nelson, Chubb, Fitzpatrick, Rosen, possibly Allen after hearing he never had a QB coach at college, or a trade down for a king's ransom.
lot depends on how the Browns value the QBs. If their grades on Darnold, Rosen, and Allen aren't substantially different, then they may just take Barkley, knowing they'll still get one of he QBs at #4. That's probably what I would do. That would also make the Giants' pick more valuable, since anyone trading with us would get whatever QB they wanted. But even if the Browns take a QB, our pick is still valuable since the Jets will obviously take a QB at #3.
My guess as of right now:
If the Browns take a QB, we stay put at #2, and take Barkley.
If the Browns take Barkley, we trade out for a fortune.
Either one is fine with me.
You don’t think QB is a need?
I don't think any of the QBs are worth the #2 pick. That has nothing to do with Webb. Webb is irrelevant to that conclusion.
Rosen is the best player in the draft, but he has an injury history that includes two recent concussions. He's also a classic pocket passer in an era where the proliferation of spread offenses in college mean that OL play in the NFL has declined markedly. He has nimble feet and good pocket presence, but is not a threat to run.
Darnold has a loopy throwing motion, and his arm and lower body are often not in sync when he throws. That produces a lot of overthrows. He has s somewhat chunky body style, is prone to fumbling, and stares down receivers.
Allen has the best arm since Elway. He's also incredibly strong, and can consequently shake off tacklers. He can also run. But he has serious accuracy issues.
I trust the Giants' judgment if they draft any of the QBs. None are anywhere near remote throwers. But I'd probably take Barkley or trade down. If forced to pick a QB, I'd take Darnold.
Because drafting is subjective. The Giants have repeatedly said the #2 pick has to be a HOF talent. What if the Giants scouts - right or wrong - don't believe ANY of the QBs are HOF talents?
just 2 of the #2 picks would have been enough. A third #2 seems like a premium.
Nice to hear as DG has to be licking his chops. We absolutely need to hold out and wait to see how desperate Buffalo becomes for our #2 pick.
I am all-in on picking Rosen #2, but if we can a crapload of picks this year plus Buffalo's #1 pcik next year, we can package up something next year to move up and pick a QB.
Have to consider who at QB becomes available next year to make the best decision...
I’d find it odd that all the teams want to trade up desperately for one of these QBs but the Giants think they’re garbage? Doesn’t add up
We don't know what the Giants think. Maybe they don't think these guys are garbage and sending out some mis directions? Maybe they really are good with Eli for another couple of years or really high on Webb.
Maybe these other teams are panicking while the Giants are staying cool.
RE: I think this pretty much confirms the Giants are taking a QB Â
If not the Jets would have just moved to 2 and the Giants get a decent haul while most likely still getting Nelson/Barkley.
Schefter also just said it's likely the first 3 picks are going to be QBs.
I think so too. They no doubt called the Giants about a trade for the number 2 pick and settled at 3. They clearly wanted to jump in front of Denver at the very least so they have their choice of the 3rd QB.
I don't understand why everyone is obsessed with trading down Â
Maybe if out QB were 5 years younger but don't overthink it. It's like the Giants taking Robert Gallery in 2004 (if he were still around) rather than Eli.
-Increases the price of #2 for Denver, Miami, and Buffalo.
-It will take a lot for Browns/Giants to move out of the top 2 picks.
-Browns take QB @1 or they settle with the 4th best QB at 4
-Increases the probability of Barkley getting to 4
-Eliminates the Browns moving from 4 to 2
-Increases the probability of the Browns trading out of 4
-Jets have QBs graded relatively close
The trade isn't a big surprise, many projected it if Jets lost out on Cousins. What's interesting now is how this forces the Bills hand. They are on the move for a QB. Miami and Denver are also on the outside looking in. Very real possibility 4 QBs go in top 5 which I heard months ago. Unreal.
How does this change anything for the Giants other than a) make their pick more valuable for QB needy teams or b) force CLE to more strongly consider a QB leaving Barkley for the Giants.
Quote:
Jason McIntyre
þVerified account @jasonrmcintyre
13m13 minutes ago
The Jets just backed the Giants into a corner. LOVE IT.
Browns want Saquon at 1?
Giants have to take a QB at 2, and deal with all the Eli drama.
HAHAHAHAHA, Jets baby, well done!
Sam Darnold in play for the Jets?
Whoever this guy is... he missed the memo months ago.
Because drafting is subjective. The Giants have repeatedly said the #2 pick has to be a HOF talent. What if the Giants scouts - right or wrong - don't believe ANY of the QBs are HOF talents?
Obviously we don’t know what they’re thinking but I find it hard to believe they don’t like one of these guys enough. The only team with trading with is Denver anything else would be to far imo. If they don’t draft a QB Davis Webb better be really good
Would you be happy if the Giants came away with Nelson and additional #1 and/or #2 picks in 2018/2019? I would.
Problem is trading to 12. Nelson won't be there. I have no issue trading back if you stay in top 10.. but to move to 12, you lose all shot at Nelson or any blue chip player. Maybe Denver at 5? That might be perfect.
What if you get a deal where you trade down, get the top OL in the draft, then use the extra #1 (or perhaps one of your #2s) on another OL?
Your line is fixed, and now includes a perennial pro bowler at guard.
And you have extra picks now to spend on another QB, a WR, etc.
I'm fine with that, or staying put and taking Barkley. As I've said, I'm not a fan of any of the QBs at #2, but certainly won't hate it if they take one.
I’d prefer Barkley in that scenario, but he’d likely be gone. Just know we could be in the same spot as Buffalo next year, trying to trade up after trading down the previous year.
Such a significant drop. I’m stunned so many people here are so excited about trading down to 12. SMH
Same here. The farthest I'd want them to drop back is 5 with Fenver.
After such a painful to watch, shitty year last year, they have to come away with one of the top, blue chip players from this draft. He won't be there at 12,IMO.
Give me one of Barkley,Chubb, Fitzpatrick or Nelson plus some picks and I'd be ok with a trade back to 5, as long as they're not in love with a QB who is still there at 2.
If not the Jets would have just moved to 2 and the Giants get a decent haul while most likely still getting Nelson/Barkley.
Schefter also just said it's likely the first 3 picks are going to be QBs.
Not necessarily, they may not have felt the jets offered enough to surrender the pick, but that doesn't mean they won't move if the right offer comes along.
The Giants were always going to either grab Darnold or Barkley at #2. The rest of the discussion is all noise.
They are in a can't miss spot.
One is a generational QB talent who for years has been touted as the next great thing, and really has never done anything to change that. He will be a future star. Think of a much better Aaron Rodgers coming out of college and that's Darnold.
The other is a generational RB talent who produced running behind a putrid O-Line. Behind this new line he can be amazing.
Both are amazing people most importantly, and the type of foundational player that this team needs.
Take ALL of the analysis out of the picture from every single pundit about arm strength, accuracy, quickness, speed, etc. and filter it through the lens of JOHN MARA. This is the key. Mara just went through a period where he stepped back a little bit and trusted Reese and McAdoo and his father's franchise was quite frankly embarrassed. He knows the franchise is at a crossroads. No shot he lets that happen again. He is signing off on this pick 100%, and the two true character guys happen to be the best 2 guys in the draft, in Darnold and Barkley.
Do you think Mara is going to put the future of his franchise in the hands of Baker Mayfield, whose overblown reputation is still just that...a reputation....or Josh Rosen, the political activist who has his own reputation of being a party guy (among the other concerns with him)?
I could do DG's job in this draft. See which one of the two is picked 1st and then pick the other. Not brain surgery.
The ONLY caveat is if someone absolutely knocks the socks off of the Giants with a deal, which starts at 2 firsts and 2 seconds IMO.
assuming they don't want to take a QB at 2. However, it's going to require creativity on their part and that has never been a strong suit of the organization.
What if you get a deal where you trade down, get the top OL in the draft, then use the extra #1 (or perhaps one of your #2s) on another OL?
Your line is fixed, and now includes a perennial pro bowler at guard.
And you have extra picks now to spend on another QB, a WR, etc.
Extra picks to spend on another QB? Think about that one. Unless Webb is the real deal (dubious) then we are going to have to make a similar trade in reverse a couple of years down the road.
RE: RE: This trade will further motivate the Browns to take a qb - Â
is still a tough sell for them. They'll have to give up 3 first round picks at minimum to beat out a deal from Denver who will have to separate with at least 2 first rounders.
I look for Buffalo to make another trade with a team close to 5. Whether that is the Browns, Denver, the Colts moving back again (which is highly unlikely), or Tampa.
Then Bills make an offer for pick #2. I don't think Gettleman (if he's considering it) will move back much further than 7.
I don’t see any scenario in which the Browns don’t take a QB at #1.
And I think Barkley is the BPA in this draft, period. I badly want him to be the Giants’ pick at #2. Reaching for players like Pugh and Flowers is why the team is picking #2. Don’t force a pick for a QB.
Anyone else wonder why the Jets didn’t make this trade closer to draft day? I guess they thought the price would go up?
Quote:
If not the Jets would have just moved to 2 and the Giants get a decent haul while most likely still getting Nelson/Barkley.
Schefter also just said it's likely the first 3 picks are going to be QBs.
This! However, there is the thought that even if the Giants might be willing to trade the #2 it wouldn't be to the crosstown rivals. Bad PR move to give the Jests Rosen or Darnold.
I don't think this confirms that at all. I think the only thing it confirms is it puts pressure on the Browns to take a QB at 1. They can't risk the guy they like still being there at 4.
As for the Giants, while they might like and be targeting a QB at 2, what if it's the same one the Browns grab at 1? Does anyone think the Giants have two QBs rated the same or would settle on their second choice just because he's a QB? I don't.
They are in a huge position of strength here at 2, even more than before thanks to the Jets trade.
You don’t think QB is a need?
Not sloppy seconds. This isn't fantasy football where you have to draft a position this round or else. This high you have to go BPA if there is not a QB you absolutely love. If Darnold isn't there you'd be out of your mind to wage the franchise on a guy who has had 2 concussions in a year, a guy who has accuracy issues or Mayfield. One or all of those guys might be end up being good. Rosen might never have another concussion. But are you willing to bet on those things? Or take the sure bet in Barkley......or a massive trade down?
Doubtful, the Browns want the pick of the QBs.
I’d find it odd that all the teams want to trade up desperately for one of these QBs but the Giants think they’re garbage? Doesn’t add up
My guess as of right now:
If the Browns take a QB, we stay put at #2, and take Barkley.
If the Browns take Barkley, we trade out for a fortune.
Either one is fine with me.
Our spot has definitely increased in value now. We are in a perfect position to reap a goldmine worth of picks
Yeah. Absolutely. It would be hard to see a situation where I would not be in agreememt. After a few years we will look back and say maybe we should have done something different but I'd love Barkley, Nelson, Chubb, Fitzpatrick, Rosen, possibly Allen after hearing he never had a QB coach at college, or a trade down for a king's ransom.
I think that's a lot less likely after seeing what they did in free agency.
Quote:
lot depends on how the Browns value the QBs. If their grades on Darnold, Rosen, and Allen aren't substantially different, then they may just take Barkley, knowing they'll still get one of he QBs at #4. That's probably what I would do. That would also make the Giants' pick more valuable, since anyone trading with us would get whatever QB they wanted. But even if the Browns take a QB, our pick is still valuable since the Jets will obviously take a QB at #3.
My guess as of right now:
If the Browns take a QB, we stay put at #2, and take Barkley.
If the Browns take Barkley, we trade out for a fortune.
Either one is fine with me.
You don’t think QB is a need?
I don't think any of the QBs are worth the #2 pick. That has nothing to do with Webb. Webb is irrelevant to that conclusion.
Rosen is the best player in the draft, but he has an injury history that includes two recent concussions. He's also a classic pocket passer in an era where the proliferation of spread offenses in college mean that OL play in the NFL has declined markedly. He has nimble feet and good pocket presence, but is not a threat to run.
Darnold has a loopy throwing motion, and his arm and lower body are often not in sync when he throws. That produces a lot of overthrows. He has s somewhat chunky body style, is prone to fumbling, and stares down receivers.
Allen has the best arm since Elway. He's also incredibly strong, and can consequently shake off tacklers. He can also run. But he has serious accuracy issues.
I trust the Giants' judgment if they draft any of the QBs. None are anywhere near remote throwers. But I'd probably take Barkley or trade down. If forced to pick a QB, I'd take Darnold.
Teams like the Broncos, Cards, Bills have to pay up. Also if the Browns want a QB and Barkley they have to pay up as well.
Do not underestimate Gettlemans rapport with Brandon Beane the GM up in Buffalo from their time in Carolina.
Giants are in a great spot.
Nice to hear as DG has to be licking his chops. We absolutely need to hold out and wait to see how desperate Buffalo becomes for our #2 pick.
I am all-in on picking Rosen #2, but if we can a crapload of picks this year plus Buffalo's #1 pcik next year, we can package up something next year to move up and pick a QB.
Have to consider who at QB becomes available next year to make the best decision...
Quote:
How can you be so sure? I'm not.
I’d find it odd that all the teams want to trade up desperately for one of these QBs but the Giants think they’re garbage? Doesn’t add up
We don't know what the Giants think. Maybe they don't think these guys are garbage and sending out some mis directions? Maybe they really are good with Eli for another couple of years or really high on Webb.
Maybe these other teams are panicking while the Giants are staying cool.
Schefter also just said it's likely the first 3 picks are going to be QBs.
I think so too. They no doubt called the Giants about a trade for the number 2 pick and settled at 3. They clearly wanted to jump in front of Denver at the very least so they have their choice of the 3rd QB.
-It will take a lot for Browns/Giants to move out of the top 2 picks.
-Browns take QB @1 or they settle with the 4th best QB at 4
-Increases the probability of Barkley getting to 4
-Eliminates the Browns moving from 4 to 2
-Increases the probability of the Browns trading out of 4
-Jets have QBs graded relatively close
The trade isn't a big surprise, many projected it if Jets lost out on Cousins. What's interesting now is how this forces the Bills hand. They are on the move for a QB. Miami and Denver are also on the outside looking in. Very real possibility 4 QBs go in top 5 which I heard months ago. Unreal.
Your line is fixed, and now includes a perennial pro bowler at guard.
And you have extra picks now to spend on another QB, a WR, etc.
This ^^^
How does this change anything for the Giants other than a) make their pick more valuable for QB needy teams or b) force CLE to more strongly consider a QB leaving Barkley for the Giants.
Quote:
Jason McIntyre
þVerified account @jasonrmcintyre
13m13 minutes ago
The Jets just backed the Giants into a corner. LOVE IT.
Browns want Saquon at 1?
Giants have to take a QB at 2, and deal with all the Eli drama.
HAHAHAHAHA, Jets baby, well done!
Sam Darnold in play for the Jets?
Whoever this guy is... he missed the memo months ago.
Obviously we don’t know what they’re thinking but I find it hard to believe they don’t like one of these guys enough. The only team with trading with is Denver anything else would be to far imo. If they don’t draft a QB Davis Webb better be really good
Problem is trading to 12. Nelson won't be there. I have no issue trading back if you stay in top 10.. but to move to 12, you lose all shot at Nelson or any blue chip player. Maybe Denver at 5? That might be perfect.
Your line is fixed, and now includes a perennial pro bowler at guard.
And you have extra picks now to spend on another QB, a WR, etc.
I'm fine with that, or staying put and taking Barkley. As I've said, I'm not a fan of any of the QBs at #2, but certainly won't hate it if they take one.
You'd have to think the possibility to add the 12, 22, next years first, a 2nd, a 3rd
and a POSSIBLE STARTER
is a haul
Your line is fixed, and now includes a perennial pro bowler at guard.
And you have extra picks now to spend on another QB, a WR, etc.
This puts the Bills out of play. Theoretically we could trade back with Denver. That’s it.
CLE- Darnold
DEN- Rosen
NYJ- Mayfield
CLE- Barkley/Chubb
NYG- Nelson?
I’d prefer Barkley in that scenario, but he’d likely be gone. Just know we could be in the same spot as Buffalo next year, trying to trade up after trading down the previous year.
Same here. The farthest I'd want them to drop back is 5 with Fenver.
After such a painful to watch, shitty year last year, they have to come away with one of the top, blue chip players from this draft. He won't be there at 12,IMO.
Give me one of Barkley,Chubb, Fitzpatrick or Nelson plus some picks and I'd be ok with a trade back to 5, as long as they're not in love with a QB who is still there at 2.
#s
4,33,(34),35,64 and two picks next year for #2?
Or something to that effect?
are they as desperate as the bills?
#s
4,33,(34),35,64 and two picks next year for #2?
Or something to that effect?
I'd say 1, 33, 64, 1 next year.
Schefter also just said it's likely the first 3 picks are going to be QBs.
They are in a can't miss spot.
One is a generational QB talent who for years has been touted as the next great thing, and really has never done anything to change that. He will be a future star. Think of a much better Aaron Rodgers coming out of college and that's Darnold.
The other is a generational RB talent who produced running behind a putrid O-Line. Behind this new line he can be amazing.
Both are amazing people most importantly, and the type of foundational player that this team needs.
Take ALL of the analysis out of the picture from every single pundit about arm strength, accuracy, quickness, speed, etc. and filter it through the lens of JOHN MARA. This is the key. Mara just went through a period where he stepped back a little bit and trusted Reese and McAdoo and his father's franchise was quite frankly embarrassed. He knows the franchise is at a crossroads. No shot he lets that happen again. He is signing off on this pick 100%, and the two true character guys happen to be the best 2 guys in the draft, in Darnold and Barkley.
Do you think Mara is going to put the future of his franchise in the hands of Baker Mayfield, whose overblown reputation is still just that...a reputation....or Josh Rosen, the political activist who has his own reputation of being a party guy (among the other concerns with him)?
I could do DG's job in this draft. See which one of the two is picked 1st and then pick the other. Not brain surgery.
The ONLY caveat is if someone absolutely knocks the socks off of the Giants with a deal, which starts at 2 firsts and 2 seconds IMO.
Browns get their choice at 4 of Chubb Nelson Barkley
We pick whichever they don't take and like best at 5 and get extra picks and a 1 next year.
If we don't take QB we HAVE to trade with Denver.
#s
4,33,(34),35,64 and two picks next year for #2?
Or something to that effect?
This is so dumb. Why would the Browns do that?
Your line is fixed, and now includes a perennial pro bowler at guard.
And you have extra picks now to spend on another QB, a WR, etc.
Extra picks to spend on another QB? Think about that one. Unless Webb is the real deal (dubious) then we are going to have to make a similar trade in reverse a couple of years down the road.
Quote:
or to trade with us, as there's less chance the qb that they want is available at the 4th pick.
This ^^^
Browns @ 1 get their pick of the QBs then Barkley falls to them a 4. Perfect draft scenario taking shape.
I look for Buffalo to make another trade with a team close to 5. Whether that is the Browns, Denver, the Colts moving back again (which is highly unlikely), or Tampa.
Then Bills make an offer for pick #2. I don't think Gettleman (if he's considering it) will move back much further than 7.
I don’t see any scenario in which the Browns don’t take a QB at #1.
And I think Barkley is the BPA in this draft, period. I badly want him to be the Giants’ pick at #2. Reaching for players like Pugh and Flowers is why the team is picking #2. Don’t force a pick for a QB.
Anyone else wonder why the Jets didn’t make this trade closer to draft day? I guess they thought the price would go up?
I think Allen is the Jets guy.
i know we won't trade with them but is that enough for us to move?
I think we would need next years one not next years 2nd.