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An second evaluation on Webb vs Rosen and Darnold.....

sxdxca : 3/17/2018 11:18 am
In my opinion , the entire draft revolves around one central question...

Is Davis Webb the next franchise QB?

In order to figure this out , I decided to research two things.

First , even though Webb played in 2016 , how did he compare stat wise to Rosen and Darnold in 2017 , when he played the same teams as they did?

Second , how did his mechanics and play compare especially to Rosen?

Here is what my research showed...

Vs Stanford...

Rosen 66.7 % 480 yards 3 TD 2 Int 143.7 QB Rating

Webb 59.6% 393 yards 2 TD 0 Int 129.1 QB Rating

Darnold 70% 325 yards 2 TD 0 Int 212.1 QB Rating

Vs Hawaii

Rosen 88% 329 yards 5 TD 0 Int 264 QB Rating

Webb 70% 441 yards 4 TD 0 Int 163 QB Rating

Vs Texas

Darnold 57% 397 yards 3 TD 2 Int 137 QB Rating

Webb 67% 396 yards 4 TD 0 Int 183 QB Rating

Vs Arizona State

Rosen 56% 420 Yards 1 TD 1 Int 136 QB Rating

Webb 57% 478 Yards 5 TD 2 Int 151 QB Rating

Darnold 54 % 266 Yards 3 TD Int 0 146 QB Rating

Vs Utah

Darnold 54% 358 Yards 3 TD 0 Int 133 QB Rating

Webb 62% 306 Yards 4 TD 1 Int 168 QB Rating

Vs Oregon State

Darnold 65% 316 Yards 3 TD 1 Int 164 QB Rating

Webb 52% 113 Yards 0 TD 1 Int 69 QB Rating

Vs Oregon

Rosen 58% 266 Yards 2 TD 0 Int 138 QB Rating

Webb 68% 325 Yards 5 TD 0 Int 140 QB Rating

VS Southern California

Rosen 61% 421 Yards 3 TD 1 Int 144 QB Rating

Webb 64% 333 Yards 2 TD 1 Int 125 QB Rating

Vs Washington

Rosen 57% 93 Yards 1 TD 0 Int 110 QB Rating

Webb 48% 262 Yards 1 TD 3 Int 90 QB Rating

Vs Washington State

Darnold 51% 164 Yards 0 TD 1 Int 92 QB Rating

Webb 64% 425 Yards 3 TD 1 Int 146 QB Rating

Vs UCLA

Darnold 60% 264 Yards 0 TD 1 Int 132 QB Rating

Webb 66% 301 Yards 2 TD 0 Int 133 QB Rating

The research shows that Webb was very comparable stat wise when he played the same teams that Rosen and Darnold did.

Outside of Oregon State , Webb competed just as well in the other games. In fact vs Washington State , Webb outperformed Darnold. And an argument can be made that he outplayed Rosen against Washington , who had a strong defense.

Webb also had more than a few dropped passes. Against USC , one of his deep balls hit the reciever right in the hands. Should have been an easy 60 yard TD , which would have added to his stats.

However in watching Webb on tape , which I've spent hours doing. His mechanics aren't as beautiful as Rosen's.

It's very clear Rosen is a special thrower. He's very accurate , and throws a beautiful ball. He's gonna be an excellent QB. Same with Darnold.

But is Webb that far behind?

Well what does Webb do well?

First of all , he has a very strong arm. He can sling it all over the field. When he says he can throw it 75 yards , I believe him. So he won't have any problem with the wind here at Giants stadium.

Webb also is very mobile. He can roll out to his right very nicely , and throws well on the run , when he's rolling to his right. That looks very easy to him.

Also slant routes , he can make those all day. So the famous slant to Beckham throw , that Eli runs , should be no problem for Webb.

He also throws a great deep ball as well. Several times he'll put enough air into it to hit a guy 40-50 yards down the sideline , for a TD in the corner of the end zone. He does that well.

Also when he steps up in the pocket , he can throw a crossing route 20-30 yards down the field no problem. He has a talented arm , that all he has to do is just flick it.

Now what does he struggle with?

He's not as a natural of a thrower as Rosen , that's very clear. Also there are some throws because of his mechanics may not be able to hit guys in stride for YAC , like Rosen can. And that's a big deal.

He needs to process faster , and make quicker decisions , and not hesitate.

In the NFL , the ball has to come out in 3 seconds or less , or you'll get hit.

Rosen also has sometimes this same problem. He wants the big play , so he takes a sack. Both of these guys will need to learn that.

Webb also is good at throwing it to his checkdown RB.

What I've read on Webb , is that he is super talented , a hard worker , and obsessed with Football.

Those are the three things you need to be great , and he has that.

Also Pat Shurmur watched Webb's practice tape , and said it was terrific.

So all in all , do I think Webb is gonna be a good NFL QB?

Absolutely I do , however I don't think he'll be as good as Rosen.

Rosen to me is gonna be a 9/10-10/10 , but I think Webb can be a 8/10 QB.

So I believe Rosen is gonna be the better player , but not by much.

With that an argument can be made , even though Rosen is the better player.

Are the Giants a better team if they draft Saquon Barkley at RB , and have Webb be the future QB?

If Webb emerges as an 8/10 QB , are the Giants a better team drafting Saquon Barkley at RB , combined with Beckham , Engram and Shepard long term?

An argument can be made , verses drafting Rosen or Darnold?

Rosen is gonna be special , and so is Darnold in my opinion. Both will be a bit better than Webb....

However even Rosen and Darnold can't do it alone , you need a team built around these guys.

If Webb emerges are the Giants a better team , because it allows them to draft the generational talent at RB and complete there team better?

This is what my research shows , feel free to discuss , maybe together we can figure this out?

Curious your thoughts?
















Rosen..  
Zepp : 3/17/2018 11:22 am : link
Can be special if he can stay on the field. You willing to take that chance?
First...  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 3/17/2018 11:26 am : link
because they played the same opponents doesn't mean they played the same teams. Second, having watched Webb's Cal tape a couple of times, I think he is going to be a 6/10 QB. He does not process fast enough. I think Webb will be an excellent backup, but an average starter. Rosen has the potential to be an excellent starter, probably top ten in the league within three years. I will admit that given his history, Shurmur might make Webb into a better than 6/10 starter. But I would rather have two potential stars at that position than one possible star.
I've always liked Webb, but whenever I say that here I get yelled at  
PatersonPlank : 3/17/2018 11:37 am : link
The guy put up excellent stats in a tough conference (as you point out the same one as Darnold and Rosen). He was also playing with 5 new WR's since all of them graduated the previous season. In addition he was MVP of the Senior Bowl, and he was MVP of the Holiday Bowl as a frosh.

I think he was a steal for us and can really play, I'm not hung up at all on the 3rd round thing. In the end I trust the Giants evaluations. If they like Webb as much as Rosen, etc., then I am fine with that. If they think Rosen. etc., is that much better that they need to draft them, I'm ok too. However if Webb is even close, which I think he is no matter how one evaluates, then why not take the massive haul of 3 or 4 more premium picks and improve the team immediately.
Thanks for breaking this down so succinctly.  
NorwoodWideRight : 3/17/2018 11:41 am : link
I always appreciate your posts.
The thing that throwsme off about David Webb  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/17/2018 11:46 am : link
is that if he were as good as people make him out to be, why was he there to be picked in the third round in a year that wasn't great for QBs?
sxdxca  
Tim in VA : 3/17/2018 11:49 am : link
The whole premise is wrong. Not drafting a QB has absolutely nothing to do with Webb and everything to do with Eli, and how much time he has left. If Eli has 2-3 years left, which I believe he does, we have 2-3 more offseasons to address the QB of the future. More points: The staff does not yet have a full picture of what we even have in Webb. Postponing a QB acquisition buys time to figure that out. Finally, being better than Webb shouldn't be the criteria we use in deciding to draft a QB. It should instead be, are these guys franchise QBs? Not selecting 1 this year indicates the answer is no
Sorry  
Marty866b : 3/17/2018 11:52 am : link
This thread makes little sense. You aren't even comparing opponents in the same year.
That was an interesting, well thought out analysis.  
Ira : 3/17/2018 11:54 am : link
I've always thought of Webb as a wasted pick. Maybe I was wrong.
RE: First...  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/17/2018 11:56 am : link
In comment 13870787 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
because they played the same opponents doesn't mean they played the same teams.

I was just about to mention this as well. There is so much lineup/roster turnover from year to year in CFB.
RE: sxdxca  
Earl the goat : 3/17/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 13870854 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
The whole premise is wrong. Not drafting a QB has absolutely nothing to do with Webb and everything to do with Eli, and how much time he has left. If Eli has 2-3 years left, which I believe he does, we have 2-3 more offseasons to address the QB of the future. More points: The staff does not yet have a full picture of what we even have in Webb. Postponing a QB acquisition buys time to figure that out. Finally, being better than Webb shouldn't be the criteria we use in deciding to draft a QB. It should instead be, are these guys franchise QBs? Not selecting 1 this year indicates the answer is no


Tim. Good point. The way I look at it is that a QB drafted at 2 won’t contribute this year or possibly next year. Barkley at 2 will be on the field game 1
The Giants are in no position to have this 2 pick not to contribute
We should draft one of Darnold/Rosen and let them compete with Webb  
TD : 3/17/2018 12:12 pm : link
Going from 7/10 to 9/10 at QB is huge.

None of the three QBs are sure things to be anything. Having 2 of the 3 increases our chances of being set at the (by far) most important position.

Gotta go either Darnold or Rosen at 2. Don’t get cute. Don’t get distracted by shiny toys.
1981  
Painless62 : 3/17/2018 12:18 pm : link
Just curious. I’m 1981 the Saints took George Rogers over LT. How did that work out? There is no LT in this draft. Reggie Bush? What was the hype on him coming out. Did he live up to his draft hype? No. Either you take a QB or get picks and build up your team. RB at the top of the first round is foolish. How many great RBs have come from rounds 2-4? Most of them. Great OL? Go back and look at the history of second pick in the draft. Full of busts. Unless you feel almost 100% convinced you have a franchise QB or a generational talent at probably edge player, trade down.
This might be the best post I've read on here in a while  
ThatLimerickGuy : 3/17/2018 12:19 pm : link
and I'm firmly in the Darnold camp.

I have said since pre-draft last year that Webb is a future star. The kid "gets it". So does Darnold. There is a lot more to being a successful QB in the NFL than throwing and running.
Can you be a leader of men? In crunch time will you rise or fold?

Stats don't always tell the story but these are at least interesting to consider and ponder over in supplement to the game film.
I don't buy what the OP is selling  
giantstock : 3/17/2018 12:27 pm : link
Other than he could be a good pro QB. He COULD be.

But If the OP's stats had any meaning, he would have gotten some playing time.

You could be right-- but I don't know what 8/10 means either.

Until I see it, I don't believe it. Add if your stats meant anything, he would have been the backup over Geno.

Which means vs "uncommon" opponents his stats were probably considerably worse.
Reese drafted this guy so odds favor Webb being a bust  
xman : 3/17/2018 12:33 pm : link
Even without Reese in the equation odds are long for him being a franchise QB.

Eli is past borrowed time. Act now
RE: Thanks for breaking this down so succinctly.  
sxdxca : 3/17/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13870827 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
I always appreciate your posts.


Norwood Right , thank you so much
RE: That was an interesting, well thought out analysis.  
sxdxca : 3/17/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13870871 Ira said:
Quote:
I've always thought of Webb as a wasted pick. Maybe I was wrong.


Thank you Ira
Excellent post.  
JohnB : 3/17/2018 12:36 pm : link
It seems like almost no one on BBI is willing to lump Webb in with the other QBs coming out this year and decide who is the best QB for the Giants. If Webb grades out on par with the QBs coming out, why draft someone else at #2?

I am NOT saying Webb is or should be the QB.... I am asking why aren't people willing to give Webb some credit? Or why do people think he isn't worth seriously considering as the future?

Thank you for a well written post.
RE: This might be the best post I've read on here in a while  
sxdxca : 3/17/2018 12:36 pm : link
In comment 13870933 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
and I'm firmly in the Darnold camp.

I have said since pre-draft last year that Webb is a future star. The kid "gets it". So does Darnold. There is a lot more to being a successful QB in the NFL than throwing and running.
Can you be a leader of men? In crunch time will you rise or fold?

Stats don't always tell the story but these are at least interesting to consider and ponder over in supplement to the game film.


Thatlimerickguy , Thank you
RE: Sorry  
sxdxca : 3/17/2018 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13870866 Marty866b said:
Quote:
This thread makes little sense. You aren't even comparing opponents in the same year.


Marty , obviously the opponents weren't in the same year , that's why I said Webb from 2016 , vs Rosen and Darnold from 2017.

This is the best I could do , in my research for Webb , he didn't play in 2017 at the college level , but he did play some of the same opponents they did the year before.
sxdxca...  
M.S. : 3/17/2018 12:41 pm : link

...thanks so much for the interesting stat comparison and evaluation!

Much appreciated!!!
RE: Excellent post.  
sxdxca : 3/17/2018 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13870985 JohnB said:
Quote:
It seems like almost no one on BBI is willing to lump Webb in with the other QBs coming out this year and decide who is the best QB for the Giants. If Webb grades out on par with the QBs coming out, why draft someone else at #2?

I am NOT saying Webb is or should be the QB.... I am asking why aren't people willing to give Webb some credit? Or why do people think he isn't worth seriously considering as the future?

Thank you for a well written post.


John B , thank you so much
RE: sxdxca...  
sxdxca : 3/17/2018 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13871002 M.S. said:
Quote:

...thanks so much for the interesting stat comparison and evaluation!

Much appreciated!!!


M.S. , thank you for the kind words
Pressure Situations  
Tim in JTown : 3/17/2018 12:55 pm : link
Good stuff.

I'd like to see how these QBs compare in pressure situations: end of half/game-winning scenarios. I wonder if that is something you have a sense of after looking at these three.
Link - ( New Window )
Two holes in your research  
est1986 : 3/17/2018 1:04 pm : link
1. They played the same team (Darnold, Webb) but a year later and those teams are very, very different as was their own teams they played for. So it’s not like “the same thing”

2. End game stats don’t nearly tell the whole story.

Webb is no where near as gifted as Darnold or Rosen IMO. Webb has the work ethic going for him but that’s about it. End of the day he was a Reese 3rd round pick.
sxdxca  
Milton : 3/17/2018 1:10 pm : link
You did an awful lot of research when all you really needed to do was look at where he was drafted last year. And just to save you some digging, he was a late third round pick. Which is what he would be--at best--in this year's draft because it looks to be a stronger draft than last year all around.
A second evaluation not  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/17/2018 1:13 pm : link
An second ecvaluation
first off, great post and effort and well thought out  
Tuckrule : 3/17/2018 1:14 pm : link
theres a video on youtube that shows webb vs the patriots in preseason. He makes some very nice throws with good accuracy. I would not write him off so fast as 70 percent of bbi has. Ignore the novice scout talking just watch the action. I think most of BBI forgot this game or didnt see it in the first place

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-p-1UOvpxU
the knock on Webb coming out was  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/17/2018 1:16 pm : link
(1) He would need at least a year learning to play under center, and
(2) There was concern about the transferability from the system he played in. A lot of people pointed at Goff who was a huge question mark after his rookie year. Goff's performance this year has put some of that to rest.

It was a surprise to many when he fell to the third round. That said there are QBs going to or in the Hall of Fame that had that same experience -- it happens.

Webb gets a bad rap here in part because of the mismanagement of the HC last year. Frankly, there is less evaluation risk for the Giants on Webb then for any of the top four QBs in this draft. That doesn't mean he will be the Giant's answer, but there is hair on each of the top four QBs this year. They may be great and they may not.
SX  
idiotsavant : 3/17/2018 1:26 pm : link
Looks like Arizona state got ints on all 3. What's going on down there? Some outstanding dbacks?

Keep our QBS and add  
TMS : 3/17/2018 1:29 pm : link
Barkley now, not wait 2/3 years to see if who we take actually works out. ELI with support is still the best of the bunch by a wide margin. A no brainer.. Barkley and the help we are getting on the OL, changes everything with our receiver core healthy. Plus on paper the defense is much improved also.
Here are the stats from  
jeremysgiants : 3/17/2018 1:39 pm : link
common opponents in 2016. Rosen and Darnold are at a disadvantage as they had a year less experience but they all played against the same players on defense more or less depending on injuries. I included pass attempts as there is a significance considering Darnold only threw 7 passes in 1 of the games.

vs Stanford

Rosen 27 Att 66.7 % 248 yards 1 TD 0 Int 156 QB Rating

Webb 57 Att 59.6 % 393 yards 2 TD 0 Int 129.1 QB Rating

Darnold 7 Att 71.4 % 45 yards 0 TD 1 Int 96.9 QB Rating


vs Arizona State

Rosen 43 Att 55.8 % 400 yards 2 TD 1 Int 144.7 QB Rating

Webb 56 Att 57.1 % 478 yards 5 TD 2 Int 151.2 QB Rating

Darnold 33 Att 69.7 % 352 yards 3 TD 0 Int 189.3 QB Rating


vs Arizona

Rosen 37 Att 54.1 % 350 yards 3 TD 0 Int 160.3 QB Rating

Webb did not play against Arizona

Darnold 32 Att 62.5 % 235 yards 5 TD 0 Int 175.8 QB Rating
.  
Bill2 : 3/17/2018 1:40 pm : link
The premise of the thread was to try ( operative word is "try") to "compare" what we have for the future to what we might have.

That's an important comparison. A comparison is not a proof. The thread starter did not claim it was a fact. he explored data to try to find the basis for a comparison

That's hard to do even if they played the same teams the same year.

With the available data and with the nearest available comparables...the thread starter put in the work and did a very good fact based job and labeled opinion as opinion and was balanced and fair to all three candidates for the future. And ended the post with a well framed "so what" implication of the analysis.

Well done. imo



Wait  
djm : 3/17/2018 2:13 pm : link
You’re basing the entire draft dynamic on whether Davis Webb is a franchise qb or not?

That’s just crazy. And impossible. And crazy.

Keep it simple. See qb. Scout qb. Decide on qb. Take qb or Barkley.

Done. I’ll save you a lot of time.
Thanks for your efforts though  
djm : 3/17/2018 2:15 pm : link
..
RE: Excellent post.  
DonQuixote : 3/17/2018 2:32 pm : link
In comment 13870985 JohnB said:
Quote:
It seems like almost no one on BBI is willing to lump Webb in with the other QBs coming out this year and decide who is the best QB for the Giants. If Webb grades out on par with the QBs coming out, why draft someone else at #2?



You can be sure that is exactly what the GM is doing and is doing so with every position on the team.
Like both Rosen and Darnold...  
Ed A. : 3/17/2018 3:36 pm : link
However Darnold scares me with all those turnovers. I would take Rosen.
Great work sxdxca, really well done.  
Section331 : 3/17/2018 3:39 pm : link
As I’ve said all along, while I’m more bullish on Webb than most, but if there’s a QB the Giants like at 2, rheyre taking him. I hope it’s Rosen.
The Fascination With Webb  
lax counsel : 3/17/2018 6:07 pm : link
On this board is really something. The reason he was a third round pick is very, very simple. He is (1)wildly inaccurate throwing the ball over 10 yards (2) has an inability to even read the simplest defenses, literally he would throw the ball to a receiver even if there was a DB sitting on the route (3) he has tremendous problems navigating the pocket, and feels pressure even before it arrives (4) his mechanics are awful.

So it seems as if those that really like Webb pick and choose stats that suit them or watch a 3 minute YouTube highlight video showing his 20 best passes, and never actually bothered to watch full game tape of the guy or read pretty much all of his scouting reports, which properly identify him as a backup.

Those of you clamorimg for Webb are going to get what you ask for. I would imagine you were also the same people declaring Ryan Nassib the next franchise qb. Webb is a third round pick that was a reach taken there, nothing more and will be a career backup or below average starter. Is that the qb you al want leading the Giants for the next 10 years?
RE: We should draft one of Darnold/Rosen and let them compete with Webb  
chopperhatch : 3/17/2018 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13870918 TD said:
Quote:
Going from 7/10 to 9/10 at QB is huge.

None of the three QBs are sure things to be anything. Having 2 of the 3 increases our chances of being set at the (by far) most important position.

Gotta go either Darnold or Rosen at 2. Don’t get cute. Don’t get distracted by shiny toys.


This is really IT. As much as I like Barkley, getting your QB successor to Eli is a much much higher priority. Given how much of a risk it is with drafting QBs, its not a problem to have two highly rated QBs draftes in successive years to compete for the job is a good thing. If Webb surprises and is the better qb, you trade the draft pick after a couple years. If the draft pick wins out, Webb is your back up for acouple years. Having 2 guys to choose from lessens your risk of a miss.
Could be as simple as algebra  
Bill L : 3/17/2018 7:22 pm : link
If Webb is something like 0.9 Darnold, and we know that Barkley is 5x Gallman/Perkins/Stewart and likely 2-3x the next best RB in the draft, then Barkley + Webb > Rosen + another RB. What remains to be seen as ether relative value of Barkley + Webb versus Webb + the additional picks from trading down - the move from 2nd to the new first round pick.
RE: Could be as simple as algebra  
Milton : 3/17/2018 7:52 pm : link
In comment 13871880 Bill L said:
Quote:
If Webb is something like 0.9 Darnold, and we know that Barkley is 5x Gallman/Perkins/Stewart and likely 2-3x the next best RB in the draft, then Barkley + Webb > Rosen + another RB. What remains to be seen as ether relative value of Barkley + Webb versus Webb + the additional picks from trading down - the move from 2nd to the new first round pick.
I know enough math to tell you that that is not algebra, that's somebody making up numbers to support the narrative of their choice.
Use the numbers you wish  
Bill L : 3/17/2018 7:59 pm : link
Still basically is Webb/darnold + Barkley > Darnold + Gallman/Barkley or Webb/Darnold + (pick #2 x pick #x) + additional picks.
RE: Could be as simple as algebra  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/17/2018 8:46 pm : link
In comment 13871880 Bill L said:
Quote:
If Webb is something like 0.9 Darnold, and we know that Barkley is 5x Gallman/Perkins/Stewart and likely 2-3x the next best RB in the draft, then Barkley + Webb > Rosen + another RB. What remains to be seen as ether relative value of Barkley + Webb versus Webb + the additional picks from trading down - the move from 2nd to the new first round pick.


Okay, I don’t even care that much about Webb  
Bill L : 3/17/2018 8:50 pm : link
What I do know is that the combination of Barkley plus Eli or, going forward, the combination of Barkley plus McCarron or Cousins, or any QB that signed this off-season (and those same type QB are going to be available over the next two off-seasons, is of higher value than any of the draft QB plus Gallman (or any web available this draft or FA).
RE: Okay, I don’t even care that much about Webb  
Milton : 3/17/2018 10:07 pm : link
In comment 13871980 Bill L said:
Quote:
What I do know is that the combination of Barkley plus Eli or, going forward, the combination of Barkley plus McCarron or Cousins, or any QB that signed this off-season (and those same type QB are going to be available over the next two off-seasons, is of higher value than any of the draft QB plus Gallman (or any web available this draft or FA).
What you know is just your opinion, which is not quantifiable, so forget the math analogy altogether. The mathematics favors taking a QB, btw, because it means having a Pro Bowl QB playing under a salary cap number below $7M rather than paying some mediocre QB $20M per year or giving 40-year old Eli a contract extension to the tune of $30M/year.
p.s.--And how do I know that Rosen will be a Pro Bowl QB? The same way you know that Barkley is gonna be a big star.
I’m more prescient than you  
Bill L : 3/17/2018 10:37 pm : link
It’s a known fact.
RE: RE: Could be as simple as algebra  
GFAN52 : 3/17/2018 10:46 pm : link
In comment 13871976 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13871880 Bill L said:


Quote:


If Webb is something like 0.9 Darnold, and we know that Barkley is 5x Gallman/Perkins/Stewart and likely 2-3x the next best RB in the draft, then Barkley + Webb > Rosen + another RB. What remains to be seen as ether relative value of Barkley + Webb versus Webb + the additional picks from trading down - the move from 2nd to the new first round pick.





Nice post sxdxca  
mrvax : 3/17/2018 11:04 pm : link
I'm thinking similar. DG and crew has a lot of thinking to do.
He's a scratch off lotto ticket  
AcesUp : 3/17/2018 11:15 pm : link
I said that in another thread but will repeat it here because that's all he is. There's a reason every team in the league, including the Giants, passed him over multiple times a lean QB class. He's not even in the early overachiever 3rd rounder territory, they couldn't keep Russell Wilson off the field but we looked for every excuse to keep Webb on the bench. He's as speculative as they come. Unless there's some top secret magic he's shown in limited reps during his rookie season, not the type of prospect that would keep you from drafting a better prospect.

If the Giants do pass on QB, I hope it's because they think these guys are garbage and not because they think Eli will play for 2+ years and Webb may be the goods.
RE: Okay, I don’t even care that much about Webb  
giantstock : 3/18/2018 1:54 am : link
In comment 13871980 Bill L said:
Quote:
What I do know is that the combination of Barkley plus Eli or, going forward, the combination of Barkley plus McCarron or Cousins, or any QB that signed this off-season (and those same type QB are going to be available over the next two off-seasons, is of higher value than any of the draft QB plus Gallman (or any web available this draft or FA).


I think you're wrong. Getting a Qb maybe Rosen or the others more than likely gives you 12+ years of solid QB play. That's better than anything you are proposing.
I still think  
English Alaister : 3/18/2018 6:43 am : link
One of the things that hurt Webb was Goff's dismal rookie year so guys were down on Cal.

No one knew if Webb could operate under center or a pro offense. The Giants know some of those things now.

I do think Webb had shown he is the perfect prospect off the field. That counts for something. The handover from Eli to another hard-working, lead by example guy would be seamless.
don't link to that video again.  
markky : 3/18/2018 8:35 am : link
thanks.

and what the hell was that guy wearing?
RE: I've always liked Webb, but whenever I say that here I get yelled at  
dtman1 : 3/18/2018 9:06 am : link
In comment 13870815 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
The guy put up excellent stats in a tough conference (as you point out the same one as Darnold and Rosen). He was also playing with 5 new WR's since all of them graduated the previous season. In addition he was MVP of the Senior Bowl, and he was MVP of the Holiday Bowl as a frosh.

I think he was a steal for us and can really play, I'm not hung up at all on the 3rd round thing. In the end I trust the Giants evaluations. If they like Webb as much as Rosen, etc., then I am fine with that. If they think Rosen. etc., is that much better that they need to draft them, I'm ok too. However if Webb is even close, which I think he is no matter how one evaluates, then why not take the massive haul of 3 or 4 more premium picks and improve the team immediately.
I agree with everything you said. Maybe Rosen and Darnold will become SLIGHTLY better QB's than Webb, but the thing that keeps telling me Webb is franchise QB material is his dedication to his craft. Work ethic. Ability and DESIRE to learn. His leadership ability. I think he's ahead of both Rosen and Darnold in these attributes.
RE: I still think  
dtman1 : 3/18/2018 9:10 am : link
In comment 13872203 English Alaister said:
Quote:
One of the things that hurt Webb was Goff's dismal rookie year so guys were down on Cal.

No one knew if Webb could operate under center or a pro offense. The Giants know some of those things now.

I do think Webb had shown he is the perfect prospect off the field. That counts for something. The handover from Eli to another hard-working, lead by example guy would be seamless.
Absolutle, I couldn't agree more with what you've said.
RE: He's a scratch off lotto ticket  
Thegratefulhead : 3/18/2018 11:02 am : link
In comment 13872120 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I said that in another thread but will repeat it here because that's all he is. There's a reason every team in the league, including the Giants, passed him over multiple times a lean QB class. He's not even in the early overachiever 3rd rounder territory, they couldn't keep Russell Wilson off the field but we looked for every excuse to keep Webb on the bench. He's as speculative as they come. Unless there's some top secret magic he's shown in limited reps during his rookie season, not the type of prospect that would keep you from drafting a better prospect.

If the Giants do pass on QB, I hope it's because they think these guys are garbage and not because they think Eli will play for 2+ years and Webb may be the goods.
Looking back I think McAdoo and Reese wanted look like the smartest men in the room. They were convinced Eli was done, and Eli was a poor fit for the system. They thought they could make something out of Geno Smith's skill set. They were waiting for the opportunity get Geno in there, that is why they did not get Webb ready. If Eli was anyone other than Eli with the streak, he would have been benched at 0-5, he was that awful last year and the supporting cast was like a college team after the injuries. Don't hold Webb not playing last year against Webb, he was not in the plan from the start.
Nice Post Sxd!  
GMen23 : 3/18/2018 11:04 am : link
This battle will be waged on BBI for another month. So many people here have already hung their General Mgr. flag, for a QB, specific QB, Barkley, or trade down. I'm still undecided, maybe because I don't want to state an opinion and get bashed for it, but I still see the virtues of all 3 options.

I don't think the Giants will get cute, and move back if they want a QB, and the same with Barkley, if they think he is generational.

Bill Polian said this week, he has a 1st rd grade on "6 Running Backs". There's a lot to like about an additional top 50 pick/ picks, in this draft.

I am all in, however, on the 1st 2 picks go offense. Especially if a QB, who sits this year, is pick 1. If we're going Eli, give him a fighting chance, and get him some "Groceries".
Webb vs Rosen vs Darnold  
johnboyw : 3/18/2018 1:13 pm : link
Great post. Very interesting stats vs like opponents. I am a fan of Webb. I do think he can be a good QB for the Giants. Like the fact that he is a football junkie who's dad is a coach. Needs more live reps this summer to show what he can do.
Regardless, I don't think the Giants are going QB at #2. I think they will entertain any and all offers for that pick and will be looking for a #1 next year as part of it. They will then consider the best deal they can get vs drafting Barkley. If Barkley is the pick, combined with Beckham, Shepard and Engram, Webb would have plenty of talent around him.
Ask yourself this....  
Milton : 3/18/2018 1:34 pm : link
Where would Rosen and Darnold have gone in last year's draft class (if you could include their 2017 year in the equation)? Do you think either of them would've lasted until the back of the third round? The NFL has spoken, we know what their scouts think of Webb.
p.s.--I appreciate that sxdxca put a lot of work into this but it was a pointless exercise. You're trying to predict the score of a game that's already been played. It's like telling someone a bunch of facts about your ancestors and then asking him to guess what color are your eyes when you are standing right in front of him. He doesn't need all those facts about your ancestors.
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