He had a legitimate shot at going number 1 overall and fell all the way to GB. GB didn't want to take him but he was just too valuable to pass on. I think the NFL Network had the behind the scenes story on Rodgers. It was really interesting.
There’s no exact science. Our last franchise QB did go number 1 overall and gave us two Super Bowl wins. It all depends on who they want, not where they will be drafted.
There are multiple examples for every single position where all-pros are drafted in other rounds. But guess what. The higher drafted players are far more likely to have success than players drafted in later rounds.
Or do you think the Giants should simply wait until the 6th RD and draft the next Brady?
You don't base your drafting strategy on exceptions to the rule.
And +1 to the poster who pointed out that it's THEIR draft position and NOT "there". I mean come on.
Bingo! For every Peyton or Eli Manning. There's 4 Ryan Leaf's
And for every Tom Brady, there are 100 mid round picks that don't make a roster. Better chance at hitting at the top, easy to cherry pick the few exceptions, it's not really even debatable.
this is why I don't value any of this years "Cant Miss" QBs, with Webb, you know what you have, to a certain extent(practice reps).
If barely is gone at #2, trade down, get picks, or BPA @#2.
This line of reasoning has been shot down multiple times before.... Â
Of all the positions on the football field, the QB position is the one in which the highest percentage of great ones hail from the top five of the draft.
p.s.--The Giants have drafted twenty QBs in the last fifty years, the two best (Phil Simms and Eli Manning) were both drafted in the top ten. Contrast that with the RB and OL position, where the Giants best picks (Joe Morris, Tiki Barber, Dave Meggett, Jumbo Elliot, Dave Diehl, Karl Nelson, Chris Snee, Roman Oben) happened outside the first round.
This is the same argument that we use to pick (or avoid) Â
I know, I know, it's a crazy idea. After all, Tom Brady went #199 and Ryan Leaf went #2, that's an undeniable fact. Clearly, you should wait for a better spot in the draft right? But hear me out...it's the most important f'n position in football. Prioritize it? Don't kill me, it's just a bullshit theory I'm kicking around.
RE: I think it's a better idea to draft a QB earlier than later Â
I know, I know, it's a crazy idea. After all, Tom Brady went #199 and Ryan Leaf went #2, that's an undeniable fact. Clearly, you should wait for a better spot in the draft right? But hear me out...it's the most important f'n position in football. Prioritize it? Don't kill me, it's just a bullshit theory I'm kicking around.
i day but disagree but I think the quality of the player is the most important thing. Especially at such high a pick. I don’t think position trumps ability.
RE: RE: I think it's a better idea to draft a QB earlier than later Â
I know, I know, it's a crazy idea. After all, Tom Brady went #199 and Ryan Leaf went #2, that's an undeniable fact. Clearly, you should wait for a better spot in the draft right? But hear me out...it's the most important f'n position in football. Prioritize it? Don't kill me, it's just a bullshit theory I'm kicking around.
i day but disagree but I think the quality of the player is the most important thing. Especially at such high a pick. I don’t think position trumps ability.
I don't think it's that simple. You're scouting on a curve. For better or worse, the impact of a QB is at such a different level from other positions that I think you almost have to put them in a different category than the rest of the players. Just look at the salaries. When backups like Chase Daniels are getting 10m/yr, that tells you everything.
I know, I know, it's a crazy idea. After all, Tom Brady went #199 and Ryan Leaf went #2, that's an undeniable fact. Clearly, you should wait for a better spot in the draft right? But hear me out...it's the most important f'n position in football. Prioritize it? Don't kill me, it's just a bullshit theory I'm kicking around.
i day but disagree but I think the quality of the player is the most important thing. Especially at such high a pick. I don’t think position trumps ability.
I don't think it's that simple. You're scouting on a curve. For better or worse, the impact of a QB is at such a different level from other positions that I think you almost have to put them in a different category than the rest of the players. Just look at the salaries. When backups like Chase Daniels are getting 10m/yr, that tells you everything.
i don’t disagree. That’s why I prefer, to add a correction factor to ability to account for positional differences. In this case, for example, I think that the margin of difference between the RB and these QB (and not simply based on the RBs ability) is greater than the positional difference.
I know, I know, it's a crazy idea. After all, Tom Brady went #199 and Ryan Leaf went #2, that's an undeniable fact. Clearly, you should wait for a better spot in the draft right? But hear me out...it's the most important f'n position in football. Prioritize it? Don't kill me, it's just a bullshit theory I'm kicking around.
i day but disagree but I think the quality of the player is the most important thing. Especially at such high a pick. I don’t think position trumps ability.
I don't think it's that simple. You're scouting on a curve. For better or worse, the impact of a QB is at such a different level from other positions that I think you almost have to put them in a different category than the rest of the players. Just look at the salaries. When backups like Chase Daniels are getting 10m/yr, that tells you everything.
i don’t disagree. That’s why I prefer, to add a correction factor to ability to account for positional differences. In this case, for example, I think that the margin of difference between the RB and these QB (and not simply based on the RBs ability) is greater than the positional difference.
That's fair. I think we both agree that the premise is bullshit. We both agree that position matters when judging the prospects. I'm curious, would you take the next 21 year old LeVeon Bell or 21 year old Derek Carr? IMO, Bell is clearly the best in the league, so feel free to swap out Bell with your preference and Carr is a good stand in for these QBs as he's around Top 10 (def 2nd tier) with serious question marks and possibly some untapped potential.
Great QBs:
Terry Bradshaw - 1
John Elway - 1
Troy Aikman - 1
Peyton Manning - 1
Pretty good QBs:
Drew Bledsoe - 1
Jim Plunkett - 1
Steve Bartkowski - 1
Vinny Testaverde - 1
There are plenty of JaMarcus Russells and Tim Couches too. You can do this with pretty much any position. Some guys don't measure up to their draft position, some overperform it.
I mean, there are busts at every position, at every draft slot. Blair Thomas, Trent Richardson, and KiJana Carter were RBs picked in the top 3 and were busts. Should we pass up Barkley because of them?
Just a couple years ago, Jonathan Cooper and Chance Warmack were thought to be sure things at guard and were picked in the top 10. Busts. Robert Gallery (2) and Greg Robinson (2) also thought to be sure things at Tackle, busts.
There are successes and busts at every position. You can't say don't draft a QB because JaMarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf once busted. That's a ridiculous argument. Similarly, don't tell me we should wait to pick 199 to draft a QB because once upon a time the Patriots found a guy named Tom Brady with that pick. It's utter nonsense.
Simply put, teams are falling over themselves to move up for QBs because - guess what - you need good QBs to win in this league. And teams obviously view these QBs as worthwhile. So think about it before you go back and say all the QBs in this draft stink. If you think this QB crop stinks, look at next year.
RE: Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington.... Â
this is why I don't value any of this years "Cant Miss" QBs, with Webb, you know what you have, to a certain extent(practice reps).
If barely is gone at #2, trade down, get picks, or BPA @#2.
Bingo! For every Peyton or Eli Manning. There's 4 Ryan Leaf's
Oh stop. For every Tom Brady there are 1000 guys drafted in round 6 that don’t make the first cut in training camp.
Simply put— you’re more likely to get a great player in the top part of round 1. Qb is the most important positon in pro sports. Nothing else needs to be said.
Have like a 30% hit rate, give or take. 30% seems low right? Take a stab at the qb hit rate in rounds 2-8. It’s pathetically low.
If you want to talk yourself out of taking a qb high you can find ways to do so. But all you’re doing is pissing in the wind. The safest and more sure fire way to find a great qb is to draft a blue chip collegiate qb high in the draft. And that just the cold hard facts. If you don’t love the qb, fine, stay away... but don’t get cute and think there is some secret method in stealing a qb later on. The odds are against it.
They have 3 weeks prior to the draft to evaluate Webb up close and personal. It is like an extended pro day. Almost every one of his measurables are top notch including work ethic. The main knock on him was decision making , but it is very possible he will actually do better in a pro system and rectify this due to his excellent work ethic. He may be able to study so hard and thoroughly that he will be over prepared and do very well. 3 weeks might give Shurmur and DG a chance to decide if they want to roll with him or draft a QB. Don’t think for a second that they wouldn’t love to keep the plan of training Webb to take over and fill a bunch of holes with great drafting over the next several years, including extra high picks. They haven’t made a decision yet and won’t trade out of the pick until they do decide positively on Webb AND they get appropriate value.
Bingo! For every Peyton or Eli Manning. There's 4 Ryan Leaf's
Or do you think the Giants should simply wait until the 6th RD and draft the next Brady?
You don't base your drafting strategy on exceptions to the rule.
And +1 to the poster who pointed out that it's THEIR draft position and NOT "there". I mean come on.
Quote:
No sure thing.
Bingo! For every Peyton or Eli Manning. There's 4 Ryan Leaf's
And for every Tom Brady, there are 100 mid round picks that don't make a roster. Better chance at hitting at the top, easy to cherry pick the few exceptions, it's not really even debatable.
Quote:
No sure thing.
Bingo! For every Peyton or Eli Manning. There's 4 Ryan Leaf's
The ratio is not 4:1, not even close
If barely is gone at #2, trade down, get picks, or BPA @#2.
Of all the positions on the football field, the QB position is the one in which the highest percentage of great ones hail from the top five of the draft.
p.s.--The Giants have drafted twenty QBs in the last fifty years, the two best (Phil Simms and Eli Manning) were both drafted in the top ten. Contrast that with the RB and OL position, where the Giants best picks (Joe Morris, Tiki Barber, Dave Meggett, Jumbo Elliot, Dave Diehl, Karl Nelson, Chris Snee, Roman Oben) happened outside the first round.
Quote:
I know, I know, it's a crazy idea. After all, Tom Brady went #199 and Ryan Leaf went #2, that's an undeniable fact. Clearly, you should wait for a better spot in the draft right? But hear me out...it's the most important f'n position in football. Prioritize it? Don't kill me, it's just a bullshit theory I'm kicking around.
i day but disagree but I think the quality of the player is the most important thing. Especially at such high a pick. I don’t think position trumps ability.
I don't think it's that simple. You're scouting on a curve. For better or worse, the impact of a QB is at such a different level from other positions that I think you almost have to put them in a different category than the rest of the players. Just look at the salaries. When backups like Chase Daniels are getting 10m/yr, that tells you everything.
He was good. You're right though. Should have mentioned Montana instead. Pick 82
It can't be about we have Eli for two more years and Webb "may" be pretty good.
If you like a QB, you take him. If not, trade down.
Quote:
In comment 13872005 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I know, I know, it's a crazy idea. After all, Tom Brady went #199 and Ryan Leaf went #2, that's an undeniable fact. Clearly, you should wait for a better spot in the draft right? But hear me out...it's the most important f'n position in football. Prioritize it? Don't kill me, it's just a bullshit theory I'm kicking around.
i day but disagree but I think the quality of the player is the most important thing. Especially at such high a pick. I don’t think position trumps ability.
I don't think it's that simple. You're scouting on a curve. For better or worse, the impact of a QB is at such a different level from other positions that I think you almost have to put them in a different category than the rest of the players. Just look at the salaries. When backups like Chase Daniels are getting 10m/yr, that tells you everything.
I guess they should take the godlike Barkley and draft Tom Brady with their last pick, it's so simple!
Do you schmucks really believe the bullshit you spew?
Quote:
In comment 13872007 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13872005 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I know, I know, it's a crazy idea. After all, Tom Brady went #199 and Ryan Leaf went #2, that's an undeniable fact. Clearly, you should wait for a better spot in the draft right? But hear me out...it's the most important f'n position in football. Prioritize it? Don't kill me, it's just a bullshit theory I'm kicking around.
i day but disagree but I think the quality of the player is the most important thing. Especially at such high a pick. I don’t think position trumps ability.
I don't think it's that simple. You're scouting on a curve. For better or worse, the impact of a QB is at such a different level from other positions that I think you almost have to put them in a different category than the rest of the players. Just look at the salaries. When backups like Chase Daniels are getting 10m/yr, that tells you everything.
i don’t disagree. That’s why I prefer, to add a correction factor to ability to account for positional differences. In this case, for example, I think that the margin of difference between the RB and these QB (and not simply based on the RBs ability) is greater than the positional difference.
That's fair. I think we both agree that the premise is bullshit. We both agree that position matters when judging the prospects. I'm curious, would you take the next 21 year old LeVeon Bell or 21 year old Derek Carr? IMO, Bell is clearly the best in the league, so feel free to swap out Bell with your preference and Carr is a good stand in for these QBs as he's around Top 10 (def 2nd tier) with serious question marks and possibly some untapped potential.
Terry Bradshaw - 1
John Elway - 1
Troy Aikman - 1
Peyton Manning - 1
Pretty good QBs:
Drew Bledsoe - 1
Jim Plunkett - 1
Steve Bartkowski - 1
Vinny Testaverde - 1
There are plenty of JaMarcus Russells and Tim Couches too. You can do this with pretty much any position. Some guys don't measure up to their draft position, some overperform it.
Just a couple years ago, Jonathan Cooper and Chance Warmack were thought to be sure things at guard and were picked in the top 10. Busts. Robert Gallery (2) and Greg Robinson (2) also thought to be sure things at Tackle, busts.
There are successes and busts at every position. You can't say don't draft a QB because JaMarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf once busted. That's a ridiculous argument. Similarly, don't tell me we should wait to pick 199 to draft a QB because once upon a time the Patriots found a guy named Tom Brady with that pick. It's utter nonsense.
Simply put, teams are falling over themselves to move up for QBs because - guess what - you need good QBs to win in this league. And teams obviously view these QBs as worthwhile. So think about it before you go back and say all the QBs in this draft stink. If you think this QB crop stinks, look at next year.
If barely is gone at #2, trade down, get picks, or BPA @#2.
Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz
Quote:
No sure thing.
Bingo! For every Peyton or Eli Manning. There's 4 Ryan Leaf's
Oh stop. For every Tom Brady there are 1000 guys drafted in round 6 that don’t make the first cut in training camp.
Simply put— you’re more likely to get a great player in the top part of round 1. Qb is the most important positon in pro sports. Nothing else needs to be said.
If you want to talk yourself out of taking a qb high you can find ways to do so. But all you’re doing is pissing in the wind. The safest and more sure fire way to find a great qb is to draft a blue chip collegiate qb high in the draft. And that just the cold hard facts. If you don’t love the qb, fine, stay away... but don’t get cute and think there is some secret method in stealing a qb later on. The odds are against it.