The idea that this group of QB's isn't good enough is funny.

Hahaha....but true

We seem to be spending the entire offseason convincing ourselves we don’t need a QB and that the QB options in the draft are terrible. Not sure.

And I want a QB at #2. And there are things about Rosen I question but I still think he'd be a great pick.

I feel Allen has not show the accuracy under pressure and this is not an easy fix and view as riskiest.

I feel Rosen is most NFL ready and could become a franchise QB but is not durable enough to hold up over time.

So few of Mayfield statue make it (Brees, Wilson)....too risky, imo.

I am in the camp of wanting Barkley because I think he will be a phenomenal player and because I do also believe that Eli has more in the tank. Additionally, despite having been drafted by Reese, I think Davis Webb has potential - we just don't know how much at this point - he is an unknown at this point. I do have some concerns with some of the QBs that will be drafted in the top 10 for a variety of reasons already debated at length. However, that said, I am going to trust that DG and PS will make better choices this draft than have been made in other recent drafts. If they take a QB over Barkley or if Barkley is taken by the Browns, so be it.

are a pretty good triumvirate to analyze the QBs. If they don’t take one I’m comfortable with that decision. Can’t see that being the case though.

With the Browns trading out of the #4 spot to a team (Broncos, Bills, Cardinals) wanting a QB.

Last year everyone convinced themselves Deshaun Watson wasn't ready, and he lit it up from day one. The year before, the Rams and Eagles received a lot of criticism for trading up for QBs in a "weak QB class," and neither has any regrets about doing so.

Darnold and Rosen will be good pros, as will Mayfield if you can handle his antics. Allen and Jackson can be good with proper coaching and development. Giants should consider themselves lucky to be drafting this high in a year with this many good QBs, and Shurmur is the perfect guy to coach them.

That if Webb is the real deal then the Giants are in a great position to improve the team through this draft, if they had to take a QB then it is going to take more time, we already have only 5 picks in this draft. We have a lot of holes, little cap money, so these people trying to convince themselves and others are not so off base. I completely understand it.

We simply do not know if Webb is the real deal, we also don't know if the Giants know it, we also do know that John Mara screwed up the entire process, not McAdoo, we all know he was trying to blame it all on Eli and save his job, it is Mara that needed to step in and do what was needed for the franchise, he failed completely.

So we are all screwed up in our thinking and our faith in the Giants organization, so there is plenty of guessing, convincing ourselves, changing our minds, all of the above. I admit I would love to think Eli is going to be great for 2 more seasons and then Webb is going to come in and upgrade the position. Tell me you wouldn't love to think this would happen.

Plus like every year there are QB's that are so over evaluated that people start to think they must not be good if there is this much chatter, but that is not the case at all, and the fact is that this years there are more QB's to be taken at the top of the draft than many years, so to say it is not a good year for QB's is wrong, it is. It is a good year to need a QB, that is why there are so many teams positioning themselves to move up, this is why the #2 pick is going to be so valuable. The Giants can get a kings ransom for that pick, and if Webb is the next QB then it is a pretty good idea, unless they want Barkley, then I have to agree with the people who want him. If he is a game changer he would upgrade this team tremendously.

Those who think a great running back can't overcome a bad offensive line are dead wrong, they can and they have in the past. So this pick needs to be a QB, Barkley, of a trade back, that is my opinion. If they want Chubb or Nelson, then trade back. If they can't get them trading back, I would still trade back and get all the picks I could instead of a guard, I don't want a guard at 2, no way. If Chubb were the next LT, then he would be fine at 2, but he isn't.

In comment 13872721 jpennyva said:

Quote:

I am in the camp of wanting Barkley because I think he will be a phenomenal player and because I do also believe that Eli has more in the tank. Additionally, despite having been drafted by Reese, I think Davis Webb has potential - we just don't know how much at this point - he is an unknown at this point. I do have some concerns with some of the QBs that will be drafted in the top 10 for a variety of reasons already debated at length. However, that said, I am going to trust that DG and PS will make better choices this draft than have been made in other recent drafts. If they take a QB over Barkley or if Barkley is taken by the Browns, so be it.

This

It’s cool whatev er they draft. But none of these qb’s are John Elway, Peyton Manning or even Andrew luck. So it’s a risky first draft pick by a new gm of the high profile giants

In comment 13872723 Dave on the UWS said:

Quote:

are a pretty good triumvirate to analyze the QBs. If they don’t take one I’m comfortable with that decision. Can’t see that being the case though.

Except if Mara has given them marching orders to roll with Eli for a couple of years. Then taking a QB might not make sense to them.

" Some people think you can stock up on picks and fill a bunch of holes. So an epically bad season which we are lucky enough to find us at the top of a draft that multiple teams want, with multiple blue chip QB options and we should move back to fill a bunch of holes with lesser prospects."

So according to you you don't build a team off the draft? this is what got us into this mess in the first place. Poor draft decisions. There is nothing wrong with this thinking. If you have 4 to 6 picks in the first 3 rounds it is not out of the question you can draft maybe 5 potential starters at a controllable cost. And they are not lesser prospects if they end up as starters in the end. this is a legitimate reason in my opinion. Nothing to dismiss. You pick the wrong guy at Qb and it has happened it can set your franchise back years.

+1

As whether they're as good as historic drafted QB's, only time will tell. My opinion is that there's promise, but no sure thing. But then there never is. Certaily, the 2004 class looked better.

However, if the Giants get offered a s**t-load of draft picks for the #2, they'd be nuts not to take it. They can wait until next year.

Stockpiling picks with young talent equates to a better rebuilding strategy than fewer picks and a massive gamble on the QB

Another point I agree with

I also think the RBs are far more likely to not meet expectations than the QBs

Barkley = Tomlinson. Would you draft Tomlinson?

wouldn't trade the pick if I thought one of the QBs was worth taking at #2. But I don't, although I certainly understand those that do. I typically favor trading down because football is a violent game, and the NFL graveyard has many top 10 corpses.

This has been discussed but someone please refresh my memory have there been any highly successful pro qbs that came into the Nfl with lower completion % at the collegiate level? I kind of want to fall in love with Allen. Could he be the no brainer pick? You’re not really supposed to pick the best collegiate qb. It’s the best pro that you want.

In comment 13872758 Tim in VA said:

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Another point I agree with

Have you seen next years QB class? It is very weak compared to this years. In reality if they don't take a QB this season then the next best option is likely the 2020 draft when Fromm, Eason, and Tagovailoa will be draft eligible.

This is the draft to take a qb. PS knows quarterbacks , if he and DG like one or two of these guys they get him.

If the Giants feel Webb is the one for the job?

Has no idea what they're doing.

Will be better than any of the quarterbacks drafted this year.

In comment 13872758 Tim in VA said:

Quote:

Another point I agree with

What if none of the qbs are worth drafting next year in what looks to be a weak class? What if the Giants aren't in position to get one if there is only one? What if DG and Schurmur don't want to tie their futures to a 37 year old and a Jerry Reese third round pick who most scouts had pegged as a back-up? What if Mara, who mandated that the Reese regime start scouting these 2018 qbs when last season went south, decided to hire a GM and qb centric head coach because he didn't want to make this decision?

Seems to me if the Giants weren't going qb, they would have went in a different direction instead of Schula and Schurmur. It seems to me that the only people who don't value the 2018 qb class are the bbi posters, because we're certainly seeing teams try to trade up for them well before the draft.

I don’t follow college game anymore, so I have no idea who’s who. I do know that Eli is on the back nine and will need to be replaced.

Is there a can’t miss QB prospect, that Gettleman would be crazy to pass up at #2?? I read a Newsday story by Glauber about the Jets and he said exactly that! Which QB has the highest ceiling and we would be crazy to pass up???

In comment 13872788 charlito said:

Quote:

Will be better than any of the quarterbacks drafted this year.

Based on what?

for two more seasons. It is not an imperative that his replacement comes out of this draft. It can be next year. It could even be the year after, although that is probably less preferable. But the idea that you take a Saquon Barkley or a trade down for extra picks means that you'll have a better team when you do get his heir apparent, AND you have more of an opportunity to evaluate the in-house candidate in Davis Webb.

I'm not sold on Webb either, however it is entirely possible he could be the answer, and I hope he gets a shot at some point to either prove he is, or prove he isn't.

for wanting Saquon Barkley over the top 4 QBs. You can't blame me or anyone else who are a fan of the RB, Barkley is a nasty, nasty dude. Runs the ball, Catches the ball, Blocks really well. So no one can question his game.

But after watching tape on Josh Rosen against Washington, USC, Arizona St. and Hawaii
Sam Darnold against Arizona, Texas and Colorado (So Far)
I am impressed -- of course I'm no professional scout -- These two Dudes can throw the ball. Darnold even with his funky throwing motion has zip in his arm (unlike Bortles/Tebow) Rosen throws the deep ball with accuracy like Eli. I would be fine with either Guy.

Still need to watch Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen but the QBs in this draft aren't as bad as people make them out to be.

I’d actually prefer the Giants trade UP if it meant getting the QB they had conviction for.

This notion, and it is applied here every day, that there needs to be this flawless, sure-thing transcendental talent only, or else there is simply no need to even consider a QB, is the height of idiocy. In fact, I think there is an idiocy pill epidemic at BBI...

Even one of the best QB prospects ever, John Elway, was criticized for tapping the ball before the threw it. So it was determined that that would make it easy for NFL DBs to break on the ball. Of course, Elway was so f-ckin good throwing the ball with velocity that his rhythm tap didn't matter...

One more thing to add - I really like Mahomes. He is Brett Favre reincarnated. And I think a very good case can be made he would be right in the mix as one of the top picks. Just like I thought the same thing about last year's class...

that Eli is finished (and some of these same people have been bashing the guy since he was drafted) are also the most bullish on this years QB's...

And I think that is kinda funny...

In comment 13872800 allstarjim said:

Quote:

for two more seasons. It is not an imperative that his replacement comes out of this draft. It can be next year. It could even be the year after,

And just what makes anyone think that the Giants will be in a draft position to get a quality QB next year or the year after.

I strongly disagree with this.

The QBs are the ones that fly up draft boards (especially desperate teams in "quarterback hell") as teams justify need over BPA.

IF the clear BPA when a team picks is a QB and that team has an immediate need for a QB, that is a very easy decision.

Gettleman and Shurmur obviously know far more than any of us about the "absolute and relative value" of the QBs in this draft. The fact that there is not one clear consensus pick (there rarely is), but I can recall there being this much "diversity" in who the number 1 pick should be (at least 3 different QBs are talked seriously about first overall: Darnold, Rosen and Allen), with a few mentioning Mayfield.

That tells me there is a moderate to high bust potential among these 5 or 6 QBs (some will likely be very good to great). Is it worth the risk "taking a flyer" on one of these QBs? I agree with Gettleman that at the 2nd overall pick, you need to be drafting a future HOFer (with the info you have of course). That is either Barkley or Nelson. Nelson's position at guard doesn't warrant 2nd overall. Barkley's might given:

– Stronger than Joe Thomas
– Quicker than DeSean Jackson
– Faster than Devin Hester
– Jumps higher than Julio Jones

If none of the QBs or Barkley (or Nelson, Chubb or Fitzpatrick for that matter) are worth the risk, then trade down if the "king's ransom" shows up.

I think Barkley is much less risky a pick than these QBs.

In comment 13872746 Bruner4329 said:

Quote:

" Some people think you can stock up on picks and fill a bunch of holes. So an epically bad season which we are lucky enough to find us at the top of a draft that multiple teams want, with multiple blue chip QB options and we should move back to fill a bunch of holes with lesser prospects." So according to you you don't build a team off the draft? this is what got us into this mess in the first place. Poor draft decisions. There is nothing wrong with this thinking. If you have 4 to 6 picks in the first 3 rounds it is not out of the question you can draft maybe 5 potential starters at a controllable cost. And they are not lesser prospects if they end up as starters in the end. this is a legitimate reason in my opinion. Nothing to dismiss. You pick the wrong guy at Qb and it has happened it can set your franchise back years.

Being where we are, without mortgaging the future, cuts both ways. If we don’t get the QB, we will likely have to trade a bunch of picks to come up and get one later, without the luxury of having a mentor in position. This is a rich crop. Twenty year olds with multiple years starting and great skills and mindsets don’t come around every year, when you have a high pick. People are coming up for a reason. Being risk averse doesn’t guarantee success either. There’s an opportunity cost not taking the QB when your in a position to do so.

Take the QB at 2 or trade down with Cleveland if they are willing and take the QB at 4, but do not listen to those “win now” voices. Hopefully Gettleman and Shurmur are not falling into the trap of the prior regime in thinking that this team is very close to being competitive. There are holes everywhere and a new system on offense and defense to learn. All this and an aging and immobile QB who has not played well in recent years.

I could care less about the Eli debate, but what should not be debated is that when this team is ready to win Eli will be at least 38-39 and in terms of play, accuracy, and mobility he is not and has never been on the level of Brees or Brady who still thrived at his age. Yes there are lots of holes to fill and extra draft choices would be nice, but without a quality QB very few teams can win. Grab one now and pray that this opportunity does not come again soon.

In comment 13872800 allstarjim said:

Quote:

for two more seasons. It is not an imperative that his replacement comes out of this draft. It can be next year. It could even be the year after, although that is probably less preferable. But the idea that you take a Saquon Barkley or a trade down for extra picks means that you'll have a better team when you do get his heir apparent, AND you have more of an opportunity to evaluate the in-house candidate in Davis Webb. I'm not sold on Webb either, however it is entirely possible he could be the answer, and I hope he gets a shot at some point to either prove he is, or prove he isn't.

Well put Allstar. Eli is under contract for 2 years, and I think it is worth putting together a good supporting cast around him which he has not been afforded for a while under Jerry Reese. I am in the Barkley camp; however, I would not be upset if they do take a QB at #2. For everyone that is in "It has to be a QB" or "Has to be Barkley" or Trade down" camp, just be happy that this team has a chance to improve. Hell! I'm excited to pick up a guy like Chubb, Nelson or Fitzpatrick in a trade down.

In comment 13872733 PaulN said:

Quote:

That if Webb is the real deal then the Giants are in a great position to improve the team through this draft, if they had to take a QB then it is going to take more time, we already have only 5 picks in this draft. We have a lot of holes, little cap money, so these people trying to convince themselves and others are not so off base. I completely understand it. We simply do not know if Webb is the real deal, we also don't know if the Giants know it, we also do know that John Mara screwed up the entire process, not McAdoo, we all know he was trying to blame it all on Eli and save his job, it is Mara that needed to step in and do what was needed for the franchise, he failed completely. So we are all screwed up in our thinking and our faith in the Giants organization, so there is plenty of guessing, convincing ourselves, changing our minds, all of the above. I admit I would love to think Eli is going to be great for 2 more seasons and then Webb is going to come in and upgrade the position. Tell me you wouldn't love to think this would happen. Plus like every year there are QB's that are so over evaluated that people start to think they must not be good if there is this much chatter, but that is not the case at all, and the fact is that this years there are more QB's to be taken at the top of the draft than many years, so to say it is not a good year for QB's is wrong, it is. It is a good year to need a QB, that is why there are so many teams positioning themselves to move up, this is why the #2 pick is going to be so valuable. The Giants can get a kings ransom for that pick, and if Webb is the next QB then it is a pretty good idea, unless they want Barkley, then I have to agree with the people who want him. If he is a game changer he would upgrade this team tremendously. Those who think a great running back can't overcome a bad offensive line are dead wrong, they can and they have in the past. So this pick needs to be a QB, Barkley, of a trade back, that is my opinion. If they want Chubb or Nelson, then trade back. If they can't get them trading back, I would still trade back and get all the picks I could instead of a guard, I don't want a guard at 2, no way. If Chubb were the next LT, then he would be fine at 2, but he isn't.

Paul, great post also. This new regime has a plan and all of us need to roll with it. They know better than us.

In comment 13872812 BillT said:

Quote:

In comment 13872800 allstarjim said: Quote: for two more seasons. It is not an imperative that his replacement comes out of this draft. It can be next year. It could even be the year after, And just what makes anyone think that the Giants will be in a draft position to get a quality QB next year or the year after.

Bill, I’ve already posted I don’t know anything about this QB crop, but what if, Gettleman trades down got multiple picks and maybe a one or two for next year’s draft, if there’s another group of QB’s coming out in19, we could trade up if we didn’t get one this year.
What do we have in Webb? I wish he saw meaningful time last season. I’ve seen arguments that Webb is just as good the current draft crop. No idea which way Gettleman goes just still not convinced after reading posts for QB, RB, or trading back. Is this group of WB’s as can't miss as 2004??? Don’t think so.

In comment 13872816 RAIN said:

Quote:

In comment 13872746 Bruner4329 said: Quote: " Some people think you can stock up on picks and fill a bunch of holes. So an epically bad season which we are lucky enough to find us at the top of a draft that multiple teams want, with multiple blue chip QB options and we should move back to fill a bunch of holes with lesser prospects." So according to you you don't build a team off the draft? this is what got us into this mess in the first place. Poor draft decisions. There is nothing wrong with this thinking. If you have 4 to 6 picks in the first 3 rounds it is not out of the question you can draft maybe 5 potential starters at a controllable cost. And they are not lesser prospects if they end up as starters in the end. this is a legitimate reason in my opinion. Nothing to dismiss. You pick the wrong guy at Qb and it has happened it can set your franchise back years. Being where we are, without mortgaging the future, cuts both ways. If we don’t get the QB, we will likely have to trade a bunch of picks to come up and get one later, without the luxury of having a mentor in position. This is a rich crop. Twenty year olds with multiple years starting and great skills and mindsets don’t come around every year, when you have a high pick. People are coming up for a reason. Being risk averse doesn’t guarantee success either. There’s an opportunity cost not taking the QB when your in a position to do so.

Bingo, spot on.

In comment 13872812 BillT said:

Quote:

In comment 13872800 allstarjim said: Quote: for two more seasons. It is not an imperative that his replacement comes out of this draft. It can be next year. It could even be the year after, And just what makes anyone think that the Giants will be in a draft position to get a quality QB next year or the year after.

The point is you may not need to. You can get a good QB anywhere in the draft. Unless Eli has a big turnaround season, the Giants probably aren't going to win a lot of games this year. If they trade down with Buffalo, it is entirely possible that Buffalo will be drafting in the top 3 picks. Buffalo is starting the year with McCarron at QB and a rookie. McCoy is getting older, and they are in a re-build mode. You don't need a top pick to get a great QB, but the fact is if the Giants trade down, they could end up with two top picks.

It's likely Gettleman is not turning this ship around with one offseason.

In comment 13872716 BillT said:

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And I want a QB at #2. And there are things about Rosen I question but I still think he'd be a great pick.

This for sure

In comment 13872831 jintz4life said:

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You posted that chart recently. I think it tells a nice, high level story. And if you go back further, I think when you originally posted this I went back to SB1 in '66, the %s for the first round QB drifts higher.

Aside from Eric I haven’t seen anyone who both thinks that Eli is rapidly declining and may not have enough left to get the job done after this upcoming season and that the quarterbacks aren’t worthy of the Giants pick. The correlation between the two is quite interesting especially because there are plenty of posters that think Eli can still play at a high level and that the Giants should still take a qb.

In comment 13872816 RAIN said:

Quote:

In comment 13872746 Bruner4329 said: Quote: " Some people think you can stock up on picks and fill a bunch of holes. So an epically bad season which we are lucky enough to find us at the top of a draft that multiple teams want, with multiple blue chip QB options and we should move back to fill a bunch of holes with lesser prospects." So according to you you don't build a team off the draft? this is what got us into this mess in the first place. Poor draft decisions. There is nothing wrong with this thinking. If you have 4 to 6 picks in the first 3 rounds it is not out of the question you can draft maybe 5 potential starters at a controllable cost. And they are not lesser prospects if they end up as starters in the end. this is a legitimate reason in my opinion. Nothing to dismiss. You pick the wrong guy at Qb and it has happened it can set your franchise back years. Being where we are, without mortgaging the future, cuts both ways. If we don’t get the QB, we will likely have to trade a bunch of picks to come up and get one later, without the luxury of having a mentor in position. This is a rich crop. Twenty year olds with multiple years starting and great skills and mindsets don’t come around every year, when you have a high pick. People are coming up for a reason. Being risk averse doesn’t guarantee success either. There’s an opportunity cost not taking the QB when your in a position to do so.

1. This isn't true. We may be just as likely to have an elite QB available at our future pick then we will "need to trade up for one." And that could be at pick #10 overall for all we know. Three of the last four years our first pick has been between 9-12. Last year both Mahomes and Watson were taken in that draft window. Derek Carr and Jimmy G were taken in the 2nd round a couple of years ago. When people say "don't force the pick" this is exactly what they are talking about. Eli is going to be the 2018 QB, and then after that for all we know the QB could be Davis Webb. If the team isn't good next year, there will be other good prospects. You have Drew Lock and Ryan Finley next year as just a couple of guys to watch. I like Finley a lot. If he builds on 2018 watch out. He could be every bit as good or better a QB prospect than these guys next year. And Drew Lock is widely considered ahead of him right now.

The second point I was going to make was that Eli isn't going to be a mentor. That's not his job, he's said he isn't interested in doing it. Was Kurt Warner Eli's mentor? No. You can learn by watching but honestly if a prospect doesn't know what's expected of him as an NFL QB he's not the right guy, period. The idea of Eli mentoring a young QB is wishful thinking. The coaches are the mentors.

You think ELI is done and Webb is a hack. So we should take a QB, probably the injury prone, concussed Rosen, at #2. Some here disagree, thinking ELI has more years left and Webb could be the real deal if developed in this system. We will let our new GM and HC make those calls. All opinions are equal here. Go Giants.

Interesting data on Pro Bowls, but the Pro Bowl has become as much a popularity content / "name recognition bowl" than anything else.

It would be interesting to see the same type of analysis done with "First Team All Pro" (voted on by football writers I believe) instead of Pro Bowl.