He said, the Jets are convinced Giants are not taking quarterback with the second pick, Schwartz seems to concur with that assessment.
Said Giants will be true to their board, and just doesn't believe they have any of the quarterbacks valued as the second best player in the draft
Believes Chubb is a distinct possibility or a trade down with Denver for Nelson
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In comment 13874152 JonC said:
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figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick.
How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB
Yeah because Gettleman and Shurmur have so much film on Webb playing NFL games to go off of. He was a late 3rd round pick (by Jerry Reese no less) in what was deemed a down year QB class.
If he was a late 3rd round pick last year, where would he have been drafted this year?
Everybody has got an opinion and they are all different. So, you can pretty much find any evidence to support the view you have and say that's the truth. It's not; it's one truth of many.
With that caveat, this is, IMO, an interesting article. It's from before last year's draft.
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my main concern about Webb, is that he was drafted and evanluated by Reese, Ross, and McAdoo, three people who are no longer part of the organization, and without a good track record drafting (especially in the third round).
But if the new coach and GM are on board, then by all means, keep grooming Webb for 2019/20.
Sure, groom him, but don't place your whole wager on him.
He was always a 2 or 3 year project pick. It's the people that picked him, and their ability to evaluate, that concern me the most.
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In comment 13874227 Britt in VA said:
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my main concern about Webb, is that he was drafted and evanluated by Reese, Ross, and McAdoo, three people who are no longer part of the organization, and without a good track record drafting (especially in the third round).
But if the new coach and GM are on board, then by all means, keep grooming Webb for 2019/20.
Sure, groom him, but don't place your whole wager on him.
He was always a 2 or 3 year project pick. It's the people that picked him, and their ability to evaluate, that concern me the most.
No argument there, they haven't gotten close to being right on a QB in many years, and now the coach/staff are gone too.
I like what I know of Davis Webb. The only problem is that it isn't much. I like the potential.
LOL it certainly would be something Britt. I do not even have to list Reese's third round picks on here. We all know.
Again, it's not definitive but 32 teams decided Webb's pedigree was 3rd rounder, a historical hit-rate of 25%.
I'm not ok betting on him to take over the Giants, not remotely, it makes no sense to plan with that strategy at the team's blueprint core. Zero.
I'm still hoping that OBJ turns into a decent player.....but yeah it would be funny if Reese finally hit on a pick!
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finally ends up being the pick that Reese got right?
I'm still hoping that OBJ turns into a decent player.....but yeah it would be funny if Reese finally hit on a pick!
I don't think we need to count the number of players left from Reese's past 10 years of drafting left on the current roster to stand by my point.
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finally ends up being the pick that Reese got right?
I'm still hoping that OBJ turns into a decent player.....but yeah it would be funny if Reese finally hit on a pick!
Britt was clearly talking about QBs ...
Webb wasn't highly rated by anyone... Any Qb that is highly rated by anyone will be picked very early.. Tom Brady and Russel Wilson were surprises
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every single draft pick in the NFL is a bet. If you have conviction on Webb then yes, it absolutely makes sense to bet on him. We all understand that Darnold, Rosen, and Allen were more highly rated prospects than Webb. But it's not like Webb was some late round flyer. He was highly rated as well. Some folks had him as a 2nd rounder with extremely high upside if he sat for a few years. I'm not sure I agree with your take.
Webb wasn't highly rated by anyone... Any Qb that is highly rated by anyone will be picked very early.. Tom Brady and Russel Wilson were surprises
Thats not true, and there have been many examples posted on here that show that. You can want to draft a QB, thats fine, but lets not alter facts.
Webb has a lot of physical tools, and a relentless work ethic and drive to succeed. I wouldn't therefore be surprised if he became an excellent QB. A 25% success rate isn't a 0% success rate. But he has still a third round pick, despite all these attributes, and the chatter that he could be drafted in the first round.
We know nothing about Webb. The Giants know next to nothing.
It's what Eric alluded to earlier- the apparent predictability to others of what our choice is or is not to be.
I have no confidence in our track record in recent drafts at being unpredictable.
I have no confidence from Carolina drafts that DG yet has shown an ability to manipulate the draft, at least in early rounds.
He has shown a propensity to draft lineman, both offensive and defensive with reasonable success, but less so at other positions.
I agree this is a draft he must get right- but I'd add, less about the player, and more about fair value, or where he get's them, and what potentially he get's in return.
If he drafts Chubb at 2,he may show an ability to pick the right player, but not make the draft work for him.
And demonstrate we still cannot play the misinformation game-which would seem to be vital here.
He was anywhere from a late 1 to round 3 prospect, who was the MVP of the senior bowl and has better arm talent than some of the QBs in this year's draft that people want to take at 2 overall.
then you trade out of #2.
He was anywhere from a late 1 to round 3 prospect, who was the MVP of the senior bowl and has better arm talent than some of the QBs in this year's draft that people want to take at 2 overall.
Better arm talent? Based on what? There are going to be 4 QBs taken in the first 5 picks of this draft. Webb was not even remotely in the conversation for a top 10 pick last year, by actual NFL evaluators.
Yay! An intelligent well reasoned comment. It's refreshing that someone is not comparing him with to Tom Brady or that he somehow had this transcendent experience that transformed him from a Jerry Reese late third rounder to a bona fide NFL star playing against guys who will be packing grocieries this season.
Is it so unreasonable that the Giants have no real idea what they have in in Webb, because of his lack of time last year and really have to depend on his college film, which objectively should not excite anyone.
Let's also clarify something with Tom Brady- and this in no way addresses his ability now- but when he was drafted, the patriots had a number on overall pick 29 year old qb who had been to multiple pro bowls and wasn't far removed from leading that team to a SB appearance. Why does this matter? Well, simply stated, the patriots had no intention of tom Brady comparisons ever touching the field in a meaningful way. The patriots had no idea what Brady was until the Bledsoe injury. It was a pleasant surprise not a realistic strategy the patriots had ever employed. So utilizing a later round pick as a way to find a franchise qb isn't really a compelling strategy.
I know, I've already reae that taking a qb in any round is risky, but ts been posted on this site before, the hit rate is far higher inside the top 5. Do you want to roll the dice on a 25% hit rate over a 60% hit rate. Unfortunately I heclikelihood is that Webb ends up a below average starter or a lip board holder. I'd love to be proven wrong by him, but the odds are against him.
Ideally, swap with Denver @ 5. One of Nelson or Fitzpatrick will probably be there, I'd imagine.
It maybe subjective mrmory and observstion, but I don't recall anyone getting jumped in the draft more than Reese.
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I'm cool with a trade down, but there has to be some sort of plan. How far back would you trade, and who would you want to take there?
Ideally, swap with Denver @ 5. One of Nelson or Fitzpatrick will probably be there, I'd imagine.
1st round pick next year in the deal? I'm cool with that.
If you sit at 2 take the quarterback you like, no reason to take the positional players at 2...
If you WERE convinced, why would anyone conclude that was because of Information and not Disinformation?
trade back will be a think about it remote tosser.
Darnold's and Allen's pro days are this week (Wed & Friday).
Odds are pretty strong that there will be a strong presence at both of these as well.
I can't see the Giants sending that big of a contingent to these workouts if they were going to go another direction.
Barkley & Chubb's workouts are this week as well. Let's see who/how many Giants reps are there.
Best bet for the Giants is to get Cleveland to believe they are going to take Barkley, and get them to trade up from 4 to 2....multiple 2nd picks would build the roster, and allow the Giants to pick one of Darnold/Rosen/Allen.
You're an expert on that, are ya?
Darnold's and Allen's pro days are this week (Wed & Friday).
Odds are pretty strong that there will be a strong presence at both of these as well.
I can't see the Giants sending that big of a contingent to these workouts if they were going to go another direction.
Barkley & Chubb's workouts are this week as well. Let's see who/how many Giants reps are there.
Best bet for the Giants is to get Cleveland to believe they are going to take Barkley, and get them to trade up from 4 to 2....multiple 2nd picks would build the roster, and allow the Giants to pick one of Darnold/Rosen/Allen.
...meaning that IF Cleveland wants Barkley they need to come up to 2 to get him.
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I'm not convinced of anything right now. We're still five weeks away. And that's the way it should be. Disinformation, not information.
If you WERE convinced, why would anyone conclude that was because of Information and not Disinformation?
Point taken.
trade back will be a think about it remote tosser.
+1
I’d rather trade down but I can see why they’d stick at 2 and take Chubb.
But I don't believe it, not for a minute.... - ( New Window )
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With all due respect, I think it's your rationalizing that everybody else is wrong and you are right that is fascinating.
All of the football people that have watched the tape seem to unanimously agree that he's still physically and mentally able.
Now, in two years? Future physical decline stuff? Okay, that's debatable. But it's not showing up on film yet and the opinions of people that matter (The Sentimentalists in Jints Central) concur.
I wouldn't quite characterize my thoughts as I'm right and Jints Central is wrong here. I'm just connecting dots on the circumstances - Eli's production has tailed off, he's in his late 30s, he isn't mobile, his arm isn't elite, and he appears to need too many high quality things around him to be effective.
Football people are wrong all the time. So this suggestion that non-football people should simply back off and not dispute them is absurd. Jerry Reese was a "football person" and his list of transgressions/poor decision making is profound...
what if Eli's problems are not all on the O line and that his crappy play the last few years is simply his normal decline as happens to all QBs even the great ones. Over looking whats going on with Eli will be a mistake we'll pay for long after this draft is over...
Would be reminiscent of Houston Texans 2006 draft, when they were criticized for passing on Reggie Bush and Vince Young in favor of Mario Williams. I remember thinking Casserly blew it at the time, but was quickly reminded that I am just a chuckle headed fan and the pros know more.
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I could live with this very reluctantly because pass rushers are in short supply. The QB is the best move, but this would have some logic to it.
And this is not as absurd as drafting Barkley or Nelson.
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just said on Moving the Chains that he'd take Chubb at #2 if he were DG as of right now....said they're's a big gap for pass rushers after Chubb and there are plenty of good RB's.
I could live with this very reluctantly because pass rushers are in short supply. The QB is the best move, but this would have some logic to it.
And this is not as absurd as drafting Barkley or Nelson.
If Rosen were to go #1 overall, Chubb and Mayfield would be the only others I would consider with the #2 pick, but trading down would probably be my favorite option at that point.
Agree (not on Mayfield) - then get the hell out of the 2 hole and find a buyer for that slot.
My sequence Rosen > Darnold > Trade Out or Chubb.
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If Rosen were to go #1 overall, Chubb and Mayfield would be the only others I would consider with the #2 pick, but trading down would probably be my favorite option at that point.
Agree (not on Mayfield) - then get the hell out of the 2 hole and find a buyer for that slot.
My sequence Rosen > Darnold > Trade Out or Chubb.
If they don't want to trade, then the Giants keep Rosen and he is the QB of the future. Of course this would only work if the Giants had a high grade on Rosen, which they should.
The absolute least I'd take from Cleveland to move down to #4 overall is a swap our 5th Rounder this season for their 1st rounder next season. Otherwise I stand pat at #2.
They'd better be content to take whichever one is left at #3 or are prepared to ante up so they can swap places with the Giants.
I'm sure if they stay at 3 and take whoever is left they'll say that was the guy they wanted all along, but I can't believe they rate all of them the same. They must have an eye on one, maybe two guys and why I can't believe they made this trade to 3 without it being a jumping point to move up further.