Heard Paul Schwartz with Bob Papa this morning

and take Chubb at 2 I would be livid. If they aren't going to take a QB then they have to trade down.

Chubb he better be Reggie White

He's a great prospect and I'm sure he'll have a great NFL career but...wow. Taking him over Barkley or Rosen/Darnold just doesn't seem logical.

That's pretty foolish. For one, its a guess, and two, if the Giants do not like any QBs, it makes the most sense for them to trade back with a team who does.

trade down to #5 makes sense, no problem with it.

be fine with Chubb, but not at #2. He'd or Nelson would be fine after a trade with Denver. As someone said, if the QBs go #1-#3, you're guaranteed to get Chubb or Nelson at five.

In comment 13873708 JonC said:

Quote:

trade down to #5 makes sense, no problem with it.

Does Denver have to give up next years one to do this.

Or can we get their

2018 2 3
2019 2 4

to really piss me off.

would be pretty cool to trade down, and have a chance to make the Jets look foolish trading up before draft day.

Might as well trade out of the pick and get additional picks and value

I'm not convinced of anything right now. We're still five weeks away. And that's the way it should be. Disinformation, not information.

#2.

In comment 13873706 UberAlias said:

Quote:

That's pretty foolish. For one, its a guess, and two, if the Giants do not like any QBs, it makes the most sense for them to trade back with a team who does.

Yup. If the Giants don't want a QB, but say Denver does, then Denver just jumps up to #2 and gets their guy before the Jets can. Giants get a haul for moving back and are then guaranteed either their 1st or 2nd ranked player since QBs will be going 1-3.

Only way the Giants wouldn't do that type of deal is if they a) want a QB or b) think Barkley is that much better than everyone else in the draft.

instead of Barkley with both on the board...that would make me mad

yep.

I am not convinced any of these quarterbacks will be good and if giants fee saw they should not force pick..

As Schwartz has been used for those purposes before and Papa does work for the team

We can scoop Nelson before IND gets a chance and get extra say 2 picks and a future first

Broke any Giants news in the past 10 years? I know Bob Papa hasn't.

If the Giants were taking a QB why wouldn't they have taken 3-4 extra picks while still having a shot at a blue chip prospect (Barkley/Nelson/Chubb)?

to 5 because we didn't want a QB and missed out on Barkley, I think that would be really really stupid. Just take him at 2.

Did not offer any opinion.

I should add Schwartz did not rule out Barkley, he just has a hunch it might be Chubb

Chubb makes sense if the current regime does not see a long term future for JPP or Vernon. 5 would seem like the spot to get him unless Cleveland surprised and grabbed Chubb at 4 which could leave Nelson and Barkley. I agree that a trade to Denver makes the most sense in this draft if a QB is not in the cards.

an underrated fact is that this pick is Gettleman's first pick as Giants GM which will set the tone for the new direction of the franchise. He absolutely has to nail this. Trading back to 5 and taking a guard I don't think would be very enticing to him.

In comment 13873723 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

to really piss me off.

Yes sir. Maybe it is misdirection, but all signs point to them passing on a QB at 2 at this point. Thankfully Avengers is coming out the same night so I can skip the draft.

Mark it down

Watching the hordes of slobbering Barkley boosters lose their minds will be hilarious.

either way, I like this. misinformation, disinformation. No one knows what's going on. I'll wait for Stapleton to weigh in.

In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said:

Quote:

Mark it down

And what if they take a qb and that qb busts?

They’re just trying to get the Browns to not take a QB. Giants need to get the next great Big Blue QB. Don’t get too cute

In comment 13873777 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Watching the hordes of slobbering Barkley boosters lose their minds will be hilarious.

Who do you want at two?

Take the QB or Barkley or at least trade back. But really, take the QB. Even if the QBs weren't the second best player, the importance of the position means it's worthwhile to take one unless you legit think they will bust.

we know you don't like Barkley because you said "his stats weren't that great compared to other running backs" but we appreciate your effort

they will take him do you think anyone would boo that pick ? I don't they can still get a solid O-line player in the 2nd round .
It would also make sense to move down but it would have to
be a boat load of picks or a front line young player added to the mix .

In comment 13873785 BestFeature said:

Quote:

Take the QB or Barkley or at least trade back. But really, take the QB. Even if the QBs weren't the second best player, the importance of the position means it's worthwhile to take one unless you legit think they will bust.

If you take a qb at 2 he better.be God enough to carry your team in his prme..

You draft an and Dalton at 2 and you failed...

but if Cleveland takes Barkley or Allen and we hand Darnold to the Jets on a silver platter, that's gonna be tough to swallow. I need to see that to believe it.

In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said: Quote: Mark it down And what if they take a qb and that qb busts?

What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible?

In comment 13873723 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

to really piss me off.

Exactly.

With that said I would much rather see the Giants trade down and get a bounty of picks from Denver and take Nelson there than stand pat and take Chubb or Barkley at 2. I know it won't happen but I would prefer Denver's 2020 1st round pick as opposed to the 2019. My reasoning is that the 2020 QB draft class is looking very strong right now.

and isn't Chubb more of a 4-3 end than a 3-4 end/LB?

front line players when they can roll out guys like Robert Thomas, Kerry f'n Wynn, John Jerry, and Brett Jones. The Giants are bound for mediocrity. What a mess.

LB or DE?

Swap 2 and 5 and we pick their 2018 2nd and 5th rounders, plus next year's #1.

I have felt all along that Keenum was signed as insurance. I think Elway is likely to go Rosen, who is most pro ready or possibly Mayfield. Either one would open camp in an competition with Keenum.

Giants sit back and take Nelson @ 5. OL goes from a weakness to a strength overnight.

As for the QB position, the cupboard would be far from bare.

Eli (for 2018)
Webb + 2 #1's in 2019 (beyond that)

In comment 13873804 NYG07 said:

Quote:

What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible?

My fear as well. In reality we would most likely have to wait until 2020 to get our next QB as next year's class isn't looking very good right now. Someone could come out of nowhere but the options aren't looking as good as this year's.

In comment 13873806 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

With that said I would much rather see the Giants trade down and get a bounty of picks from Denver and take Nelson there than stand pat and take Chubb or Barkley at 2. I know it won't happen but I would prefer Denver's 2020 1st round pick as opposed to the 2019. My reasoning is that the 2020 QB draft class is looking very strong right now.

Isiah Wynn could be gone by the 2nd round....as could James Daniels and Will Hernandez

In comment 13873806 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

With that said I would much rather see the Giants trade down and get a bounty of picks from Denver and take Nelson there than stand pat and take Chubb or Barkley at 2. I know it won't happen but I would prefer Denver's 2020 1st round pick as opposed to the 2019. My reasoning is that the 2020 QB draft class is looking very strong right now.

I like Nelson. But I agree. Staying put should be reserved for taking a QB. Staying put to take Barkley/Chubb/Nelson is my least favorite option. Trading down and landing one of those three would be fantastic imo.

In comment 13873814 Andy in Boston said:

Quote:

In comment 13873806 Jay on the Island said: Quote: With that said I would much rather see the Giants trade down and get a bounty of picks from Denver and take Nelson there than stand pat and take Chubb or Barkley at 2. I know it won't happen but I would prefer Denver's 2020 1st round pick as opposed to the 2019. My reasoning is that the 2020 QB draft class is looking very strong right now. Isiah Wynn could be gone by the 2nd round....as could James Daniels and Will Hernandez

There will be at least one out of Price, Wynn, Hernandez, Daniels, and Smith available at 34.

To me that screams of smoke screen. I think they are set on Allen and will be the most aggressive team for the #2 pick.

In comment 13873804 NYG07 said:

Quote:

In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said: Quote: Mark it down And what if they take a qb and that qb busts? What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible?

Then it is going to be a long rebuild but you can't force qb if you don't believe that qb will be a great player..

In comment 13873813 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 13873804 NYG07 said: Quote: What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible? My fear as well. In reality we would most likely have to wait until 2020 to get our next QB as next year's class isn't looking very good right now. Someone could come out of nowhere but the options aren't looking as good as this year's.

Nick Fitzgerald from Miss St looks really good as a prospect. There are some good ones out there.

my question last week about how would BBI react if the Giants took Chubb at #2.

with Giant ties outside of the GM office has any idea what DG is thinking & that makes me happy after years of Reese leaks),then you have to ask yourself why didn't the Giants trade w/the Jets? And being the #2 pick,they could've gotten a deal that was even a little better than the Colts got!

In comment 13873823 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

To me that screams of smoke screen. I think they are set on Allen and will be the most aggressive team for the #2 pick.

Do we max out at two firsts from them? The thing with DEN is that their future picks are worth the least of any of the teams looking to trade up imo. BUF's 2019 first is looking a lot better than DEN's. But Nelson/Chubb/Barkley might be worth more than that BEF first too.

Obsessed with the Giants taking a QB, there are many reputable scouts, coaches and talking heads who don’t believe the QBs in this draft are franchise QBs. Remember 1999? Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown? Only McNabb and Culpepper were good QBs and Culpepper had the benefit of Carter and Moss and never won anything without Moss.

I would not be a fan of them taking Chub at two, but there is no guarantee that trading down allows the Giants the chance to get “Blue Chip/HOF” which includes Nelson, Barkley, Fitzpatrick and yes Chub.

So assume Denver doesn’t want to pay the Giants a Kong’s randsone, whose trading with NYG? Indy won’t at 6. Cleveland won’t at 4. Jets have little left at 3.

For those of you who are already pissed off or plan to be pissed off, May I suggest evaluating your life. If a sport makes you that upset you have major issues. FYI not one player on the team cares about you.

In comment 13873832 TheMick7 said:

Quote:

with Giant ties outside of the GM office has any idea what DG is thinking & that makes me happy after years of Reese leaks),then you have to ask yourself why didn't the Giants trade w/the Jets? And being the #2 pick,they could've gotten a deal that was even a little better than the Colts got!

It could be that DG wanted a future first and the Jets were only looking to trade day 2 picks. DEN seemingly would have to offer their 2019 first minimally plus the #5 to hop over the Jets now.

I truly am of the belief that nobody in the press knows what we're going to do @ 2. The Giants are keeping this close to the vest.

In comment 13873837 djstat said:

Quote:

Obsessed with the Giants taking a QB, there are many reputable scouts, coaches and talking heads who don’t believe the QBs in this draft are franchise QBs. Remember 1999? Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown? Only McNabb and Culpepper were good QBs and Culpepper had the benefit of Carter and Moss and never won anything without Moss. I would not be a fan of them taking Chub at two, but there is no guarantee that trading down allows the Giants the chance to get “Blue Chip/HOF” which includes Nelson, Barkley, Fitzpatrick and yes Chub. So assume Denver doesn’t want to pay the Giants a Kong’s randsone, whose trading with NYG? Indy won’t at 6. Cleveland won’t at 4. Jets have little left at 3. For those of you who are already pissed off or plan to be pissed off, May I suggest evaluating your life. If a sport makes you that upset you have major issues. FYI not one player on the team cares about you.

I suggest you take your own advice instead of tilting at windmills.

... QBs are overvalued and other teams will overpay. They have major leverage. I'm not advocating moving back to #12 (although, the number of picks it will garner would be fun to follow on BBI).

However, swapping with the Broncos and moving back to #5 makes a lot of sense as they will basically be guaranteed the second best non-QB in the draft.

Unless the top non-QB they have on their board is far and away better than the next, trade with the Broncos.

Schwartz was strongly suggesting that Chubb made the most sense if NYG take a non-qb at #2, based on the extreme drop off in pass rusher talent versus RB or OG. Figured we could get a RB or OG close to Barkely/Nelson, but would be SOL for a pass rusher. Schwartz emphasized that the NYG had a lot of holes in personnel; weak secondary and no quality to spell our DEs who had to play too many snaps.

Personally, I am hoping the either have a QB rated high enough for #2, or get a great trade down offer from DEN if they don't.

Quote:

For those of you who are already pissed off or plan to be pissed off, May I suggest evaluating your life. If a sport makes you that upset you have major issues. FYI not one player on the team cares about you.

These posts always crack me up. We're talking football on a Giants message board, so how about keeping these comments in that context? Yes, I'd be pissed off if we passed up on Darnold or Rosen and they became stars QBs elsewhere, especially the Jets - but I'd be more pissed off if I lost my job or had to deal with some personal tragedy. Hope that clarifies things.

More than a few people - including those reporting what other NFL personnel people have said - are now remarking the Giants won't go QB.

That doesn't mean it won't happen, but the Giants have been horrible for decades now in keeping their intentions secret, and that includes with Gettleman here under Accorsi and Reese.

Every year there a bunch of people who claim "smoke screen" and every year we find out there was no smoke screen.

It will be interesting to see what happens and see if the Giants have turned a corner in keeping their intentions quiet. But based on past events, it may very well be that the Giants don't even have the QBs on their board at #2.

That is like buying a fifth tire for your car because that tire is a better value than the alternator that you still need.

There are 4 top QBs, these teams are going to want.

Assuming Cleveland takes one at the top. We trade with Denver who takes the next one at 2. The Jets take one at 3.

It's possible Buffalo overwhelms Cleveland with picks to jump to 4 and the last big QB is taken.

It's conceivable that NYG can the best player in this draft (Barkley) at pick #5 and on top of that, picked up additional draft capital including a 2019 1st in the process.

A lot of moving parts there but not impossible.

and don't trade back they're screwing up maximizing assets. I have no idea if any of the QB's is a good pick at #2. But if they pass on the QB's and don't take advantage of the desperation to draft QB's by other teams they're leaving assets on the table.

I get the he may have the highest value that is hardest to match lower. My only real concern is how would he fit in with our new 3-4 base defense. Can he play 2 point? If so, then I'd be fine with Chubb at 2.

but it does jive with what I'd heard two weeks ago.

If we take Chubb at 2. If we don't like a qb, this will be the best case scenarios, in order.

1. Trade down and get Nelson
2. Barkley at 2
3. Trade down and get Chubb or Fitzpatrick
4. Trade way down for a boatload of picks

While the Giants make their "value pick" of DE, RD or G...

And then having to watch the Jets new QB lead them to multiple playoffs and SB Championships, while the Giants struggle for years in QB hell...

That is the nightmare that could unfold.

In comment 13873889 JonC said:

Quote:

but it does jive with what I'd heard two weeks ago.

Extra draft picks + player (Nelson?) at #5 > Chubb.

In comment 13873784 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

In comment 13873777 Greg from LI said: Quote: Watching the hordes of slobbering Barkley boosters lose their minds will be hilarious. Who do you want at two?

Honestly, a trade down would be my preferred outcome.

I agree, but heard they graded Chubb way up there.

In comment 13873825 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13873804 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said: Quote: Mark it down And what if they take a qb and that qb busts? What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible? Then it is going to be a long rebuild but you can't force qb if you don't believe that qb will be a great player..

Right..and none of us are qualified to give a truly informed opinion on these QBs. Yet teams are desperately trying to move up to grab them...

But in your mind none of them are future franchise QBs. This is the most divided I have ever seen this board. Those of us that want to move on from Eli think this is a great crop of QB talent (NFL teams clearly also agree), and those that want to cling to Eli think they are all going to be busts.

In comment 13873895 Jim in Tampa said:

Quote:

having to watch the Jets new QB lead them to multiple playoffs and SB Championships

In comment 13873786 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

we know you don't like Barkley because you said "his stats weren't that great compared to other running backs" but we appreciate your effort

I, on the other hand, am disappointed with yours. No references to Bo Jackson or Barry Sanders???

In comment [url=index.p


mode=2&thread=566219&show_all=1#13873779]13873779[/url] nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said: Quote: Mark it down And what if they take a qb and that qb busts?

In comment 13873901 NYG07 said:

Quote:

In comment 13873825 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13873804 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said: Quote: Mark it down And what if they take a qb and that qb busts? What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible? Then it is going to be a long rebuild but you can't force qb if you don't believe that qb will be a great player.. Right..and none of us are qualified to give a truly informed opinion on these QBs. Yet teams are desperately trying to move up to grab them... But in your mind none of them are future franchise QBs. This is the most divided I have ever seen this board. Those of us that want to move on from Eli think this is a great crop of QB talent (NFL teams clearly also agree), and those that want to cling to Eli think they are all going to be busts.

First off I never said I was right or wrong...

2nd I dnt want to cling to eli...

3rd the people who want qb no matter what are completely dismissing webb..

4th if the giants go qb and that player is garbage and barely or Chubb or Nelson become all pro players you going to kill gettleman?

5 all I am saying is I don't want andy Dalton with the 2nd pick

In comment 13873830 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

my question last week about how would BBI react if the Giants took Chubb at #2.

Personally, I'd be incredibly disappointed. I understand these guys are much smarter than I am, but my days of arbitrarily stating "In X I trust" are over. I want Rosen or Darnold and I'd be satisfied with Allen or Barkley. If it's not one of those 4, I'm leaving this draft extremely disappointed/upset.

In comment 13873899 JonC said:

Quote:

I agree, but heard they graded Chubb way up there.

I know. The irony is that Chubb could easily be available at #5 anyway. I understand why they want Chubb. This could well be the last year for JPP, and he and Vernon played way too many snaps last year.

doesn't draft a QB at #2, which would be a colossal mistake, at least get the hell out of the spot by trading down to garner more picks (this draft and next year). That is still the wrong move, but a very small consolation.

I fully expect Jints Central to f-ck this up. Mara is serving the Trust in Eli Kool Aid and DG and Shurmur are falling right in line...

In comment 13873830 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

my question last week about how would BBI react if the Giants took Chubb at #2.

I don't really see him as a 3-4 OLB, and while Watt has shown what you can do at DE in a 3-4, I'm not sure Chubb at 2 would be the best use of resources if he ends up at DE in a 3-4.

In comment 13873921 bw in dc said:

Quote:

doesn't draft a QB at #2, which would be a colossal mistake, at least get the hell out of the spot by trading down to garner more picks (this draft and next year). That is still the wrong move, but a very small consolation. I fully expect Jints Central to f-ck this up. Mara is serving the Trust in Eli Kool Aid and DG and Shurmur are falling right in line...

Completely agree. If they really do believe none of these top 4 QBs that other NFL teams are desparately trying to move up to get in the top 5 are not going to be able to lead this team for the next 10 years then get the hell out of there. Take the trade with Buffalo and get a shit ton of picks in return.

If they like Chubb or Nelson, they need to trade down to 5.

Gettlemen is in total control with this pick.

5 scenarios that are taking place:

Scenario 1. Cleveland trades with NYG

The Giants being tight lipped makes their intentions unknown and making Cleveland think more about their approach with both picks 1 & 4. We have to assume that Cleveland is going to select a QB and you would have to think that they like one more than the other 3. You would also have to think that Cleveland would love to land Barkley. The question is: do they select the QB first and hope Barkley is there? Do they take Barkley @ pick 1 and select the best available QB? Or they may offer to trade with NYG for pick 2 and NYG moves back to 4 and getting a bunch of 2nd round picks and maybe another 4th this year or a 1 or 2 next year. The Browns could get the QB and Barkley.

Scenario 2: Cleveland takes Barkley @ 1 and we get the QB of our choice.

Scenario 3: Cleveland takes a QB @ 1 and we take Barkley or a QB.

Scenario 4: We trade with Denver to pick 5 and we get Nelson, Chubb or there. In return 2018 2nd and 4th round with a 2019 1st round pick.

Scenario 5: Cleveland trades pick 4 to Buffalo for 4 picks this year and a 2019 1st round pick.

I can see 4 QB going 1,2,3,4 if Denver trades up to pick 2 and Buffalo trades to pick 4. Could be a crazy day on April 26th. Barkley could be had at pick 5 in this case.

Nothing is impossible.

I do not understand many of you. You have a GM who is all in on Eli. He wants to win NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you want to pick a QB over a franchise RB?
"The Giants will regret not drafting a QB"?

I do not think so. Not one of the top 4 QBs are a given:

1) Rosen is more of an injury risk than Barkley.
2) Darnold is turnover prone; haven't we seen enough of that with Eli?
3) Allen has a howitzer for an arm. But even Big Ben was not a #2 pick. Allen's upside is incredible and he can throw the ball through the wind at Met Life. But drafting Allen is basically saying that you are throwing away the next two years. And Allen better not be a mistake!
4) Mayfield is just not the type of player that John Mara likes to bring in. There are too many personality issues with Mayfield. I love his passion and leadership. But he does not fit the organizational prototype. And is the biggest question mark of the top 4.

So, BARKLEY is by far the answer. There are no questions with him. He is a GENERATIONAL TALENT, PERIOD!!!!!

In comment 13873804 NYG07 said:

Quote:

In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said: Quote: Mark it down And what if they take a qb and that qb busts? What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible?

What if a crow had a banjo on his ass there would be music in the air. What if the QB they potentially drafts sucks. No one knows what will happen. OBJ had how many teams pass on him. It happens, you have no idea it is a crap shoot. Eli, was an elite and everyone knew it. None of these QB's are, they might be eventually but as of now they are all crap shoots. So you can declare whatever about Eli or Webb but how do you know Eli's decline is not because of the lack of running game and our pitiful OL?

In comment 13873837 djstat said:

Quote:

Obsessed with the Giants taking a QB, there are many reputable scouts, coaches and talking heads who don’t believe the QBs in this draft are franchise QBs. Remember 1999? Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown? Only McNabb and Culpepper were good QBs and Culpepper had the benefit of Carter and Moss and never won anything without Moss. I would not be a fan of them taking Chub at two, but there is no guarantee that trading down allows the Giants the chance to get “Blue Chip/HOF” which includes Nelson, Barkley, Fitzpatrick and yes Chub. So assume Denver doesn’t want to pay the Giants a Kong’s randsone, whose trading with NYG? Indy won’t at 6. Cleveland won’t at 4. Jets have little left at 3. For those of you who are already pissed off or plan to be pissed off, May I suggest evaluating your life. If a sport makes you that upset you have major issues. FYI not one player on the team cares about you.

What a terrible post. Hits every item on the "shouldnt post on a football website" checklist.

1. Start off post by calling people who think the Giants should pick a QB (only the most important position in all of sports) "clowns".

2. Make a false equivalency to another draft that has absolutely no bearing on the 2018 draft or the players available to the Giants.

3. Cite to unnamed sources, scouts and NFL people who allegedly support your false equivalency.

4. "Kong's randsone" followed up by improper use of "whose".

5. Bald assertion that based upon your unnamed sources, no one is willing to trade with the Giants (despite the reality that the Jets just gave up a shitload to move up 3 picks)

6. The triple lundy finale of telling everyone to evaluate their life, sports arent important and that no players care about fans.

Epic failure of a post. Warrants this:
no points - ( New Window )

In comment 13873866 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

More than a few people - including those reporting what other NFL personnel people have said - are now remarking the Giants won't go QB. That doesn't mean it won't happen, but the Giants have been horrible for decades now in keeping their intentions secret, and that includes with Gettleman here under Accorsi and Reese. Every year there a bunch of people who claim "smoke screen" and every year we find out there was no smoke screen. It will be interesting to see what happens and see if the Giants have turned a corner in keeping their intentions quiet. But based on past events, it may very well be that the Giants don't even have the QBs on their board at #2.

Then they'd better deal the pick.

In comment 13873932 Sean said:

Quote:

If they like Chubb or Nelson, they need to trade down to 5.

One of the few trade-down scenarios that I like if Denver is willing to give up the ranch (in your purported deal).

with taking a QB. Meaning those who think anything but a QB is folly, that DG or any other competent GM couldn't possibly think that none of these QBs are worhty of this pick. And there are plenty of those types posting here.

Whether it's smoke or not is unknown. I still lean towards this being legit but at least there's an element of doubt there vs. the previous regime.

A 3rd of BBI will be pissed
A 3rd of BBI will be Happy
And a 3rd of BBI will spell the new draftees name incorrectly

Really like Chubb and in a 3-4 he would likely line up all over the place. He'd probably be an OLB with a hand in the dirt and could move inside on passing downs. JPP isn't long for this team and you need pass rushers in this league. Chubb fits the bill and he's a pretty safe pick.

In comment 13873934 Rjanyg said:

Quote:

Gettlemen is in total control with this pick. 5 scenarios that are taking place: Scenario 1. Cleveland trades with NYG The Giants being tight lipped makes their intentions unknown and making Cleveland think more about their approach with both picks 1 & 4. We have to assume that Cleveland is going to select a QB and you would have to think that they like one more than the other 3. You would also have to think that Cleveland would love to land Barkley. The question is: do they select the QB first and hope Barkley is there? Do they take Barkley @ pick 1 and select the best available QB? Or they may offer to trade with NYG for pick 2 and NYG moves back to 4 and getting a bunch of 2nd round picks and maybe another 4th this year or a 1 or 2 next year. The Browns could get the QB and Barkley. Scenario 2: Cleveland takes Barkley @ 1 and we get the QB of our choice. Scenario 3: Cleveland takes a QB @ 1 and we take Barkley or a QB. Scenario 4: We trade with Denver to pick 5 and we get Nelson, Chubb or there. In return 2018 2nd and 4th round with a 2019 1st round pick. Scenario 5: Cleveland trades pick 4 to Buffalo for 4 picks this year and a 2019 1st round pick. I can see 4 QB going 1,2,3,4 if Denver trades up to pick 2 and Buffalo trades to pick 4. Could be a crazy day on April 26th. Barkley could be had at pick 5 in this case. Nothing is impossible.

We're fortunate, it's hard to predict what we'll do because we have so many holes everywhere!

In comment 13873938 The 12th Man said:

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In comment 13873804 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said: Quote: Mark it down And what if they take a qb and that qb busts? What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible? What if a crow had a banjo on his ass there would be music in the air. What if the QB they potentially drafts sucks. No one knows what will happen. OBJ had how many teams pass on him. It happens, you have no idea it is a crap shoot. Eli, was an elite and everyone knew it. None of these QB's are, they might be eventually but as of now they are all crap shoots. So you can declare whatever about Eli or Webb but how do you know Eli's decline is not because of the lack of running game and our pitiful OL?

I will say it a thousand times. Eli is 37 years old! Not only that, he was certainly not the consensus number one pick in 2004. He was the favorite, but many teams viewed Roethlisberger and Rivers as better prospects. Much like this year, where Darnold is the favorite, but no one really knows if he is the best.

If anything could come from the catastrophic season we just had to witness, it is the chance to take the next QB who can lead this team for the future. So if they don't believe in any of these QBs, then they should trade back and accumulate as many picks as possible. Because when they do need a QB in the near future, they are going to have to sacrifice a ton of assets to move up to get one.

and we concerned that the one you want woulnd't make it past Cleveland at #4, wouldn't it still be worthwhile to feint a Denver trade (or not) and make the Jets give you a sweetener to switch spots? I mean, it might now be a lot, but it would be free and it wouldn't change your overall plans.

In comment 13873895 Jim in Tampa said:

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While the Giants make their "value pick" of DE, RD or G... And then having to watch the Jets new QB lead them to multiple playoffs and SB Championships, while the Giants struggle for years in QB hell... That is the nightmare that could unfold.

But but we can trade down and draft a franchise OG while we watch everyone else snatch up QBs

In comment 13873976 NYG07 said:

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In comment 13873938 The 12th Man said: Quote: In comment 13873804 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said: Quote: Mark it down And what if they take a qb and that qb busts? What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible? What if a crow had a banjo on his ass there would be music in the air. What if the QB they potentially drafts sucks. No one knows what will happen. OBJ had how many teams pass on him. It happens, you have no idea it is a crap shoot. Eli, was an elite and everyone knew it. None of these QB's are, they might be eventually but as of now they are all crap shoots. So you can declare whatever about Eli or Webb but how do you know Eli's decline is not because of the lack of running game and our pitiful OL? I will say it a thousand times. Eli is 37 years old! Not only that, he was certainly not the consensus number one pick in 2004. He was the favorite, but many teams viewed Roethlisberger and Rivers as better prospects. Much like this year, where Darnold is the favorite, but no one really knows if he is the best. If anything could come from the catastrophic season we just had to witness, it is the chance to take the next QB who can lead this team for the future. So if they don't believe in any of these QBs, then they should trade back and accumulate as many picks as possible. Because when they do need a QB in the near future, they are going to have to sacrifice a ton of assets to move up to get one.

If Eli declines, and Webb is terrible, then they are worse than this year, right? So, how many picks need to be accumulated to move up from #2?

In comment 13873826 adamg said:

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In comment 13873813 Jay on the Island said: Quote: In comment 13873804 NYG07 said: Quote: What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible? My fear as well. In reality we would most likely have to wait until 2020 to get our next QB as next year's class isn't looking very good right now. Someone could come out of nowhere but the options aren't looking as good as this year's. Nick Fitzgerald from Miss St looks really good as a prospect. There are some good ones out there.

M
Fitzgerald is not a NFL Qb... he isn't in the same league as 2018 Qbs

2 and taking Chubb or Nelson...I don't think Gettleman is that stupid. He knows Barkley's a borderline generational talent (which Chubb isn't, and Nelson is a guard). You have some franchise QB prospects and a near perfectly rated running back at the top of this draft. We aren't staying at 2 and not taking one of those options.

If we move back, all bets are off as to who would be available at that point. But if we are moving back in this draft which would mean passing on a QB or Barkley, we better get something equivalent to the RGIII trade.

I think it's that simple.

In comment 13873994 ryanmkeane said:

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generational talent

LOL

In comment 13873955 TommytheElephant said:

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A 3rd of BBI will be pissed A 3rd of BBI will be Happy And a 3rd of BBI will spell the new draftees name incorrectly

This is 100% correct.

In comment 13873984 Bill L said:

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In comment 13873976 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 13873938 The 12th Man said: Quote: In comment 13873804 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said: Quote: Mark it down And what if they take a qb and that qb busts? What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible? What if a crow had a banjo on his ass there would be music in the air. What if the QB they potentially drafts sucks. No one knows what will happen. OBJ had how many teams pass on him. It happens, you have no idea it is a crap shoot. Eli, was an elite and everyone knew it. None of these QB's are, they might be eventually but as of now they are all crap shoots. So you can declare whatever about Eli or Webb but how do you know Eli's decline is not because of the lack of running game and our pitiful OL? I will say it a thousand times. Eli is 37 years old! Not only that, he was certainly not the consensus number one pick in 2004. He was the favorite, but many teams viewed Roethlisberger and Rivers as better prospects. Much like this year, where Darnold is the favorite, but no one really knows if he is the best. If anything could come from the catastrophic season we just had to witness, it is the chance to take the next QB who can lead this team for the future. So if they don't believe in any of these QBs, then they should trade back and accumulate as many picks as possible. Because when they do need a QB in the near future, they are going to have to sacrifice a ton of assets to move up to get one. If Eli declines, and Webb is terrible, then they are worse than this year, right? So, how many picks need to be accumulated to move up from #2?

No, I disagree. Even if Eli reverts to 2016 form (27th in total QBR), and the team stays relatively healthy, they have enough talent to finish at least 6-10. So figure they have the 12th pick in the 2019 draft. You are talking about at the very least 3 first round picks to move up to take a QB. Who is even going to be available in the next draft? Is there anyone worth taking? This is a rich crop of QBs. Just take one you believe in, even if you are trying to win this year.

In comment 13873984 Bill L said:

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In comment 13873976 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 13873938 The 12th Man said: Quote: In comment 13873804 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said: Quote: Mark it down And what if they take a qb and that qb busts? What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible? What if a crow had a banjo on his ass there would be music in the air. What if the QB they potentially drafts sucks. No one knows what will happen. OBJ had how many teams pass on him. It happens, you have no idea it is a crap shoot. Eli, was an elite and everyone knew it. None of these QB's are, they might be eventually but as of now they are all crap shoots. So you can declare whatever about Eli or Webb but how do you know Eli's decline is not because of the lack of running game and our pitiful OL? I will say it a thousand times. Eli is 37 years old! Not only that, he was certainly not the consensus number one pick in 2004. He was the favorite, but many teams viewed Roethlisberger and Rivers as better prospects. Much like this year, where Darnold is the favorite, but no one really knows if he is the best. If anything could come from the catastrophic season we just had to witness, it is the chance to take the next QB who can lead this team for the future. So if they don't believe in any of these QBs, then they should trade back and accumulate as many picks as possible. Because when they do need a QB in the near future, they are going to have to sacrifice a ton of assets to move up to get one. If Eli declines, and Webb is terrible, then they are worse than this year, right? So, how many picks need to be accumulated to move up from #2?

What if they win 6 games... it's not likely the Giants are this bad again in the near future.. Meanwhile our Qb is going into year 15 and has shown serious signs of decline after leading us to a 3 win season
The time to take a Qb is now..

First 3 picks could be QBs, so if we are trading down you could get either Barkley, Chubb, Fitzgerald or Nelson at 4-7 picks

to the above

In comment 13874010 GoBlue6599 said:

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What if they win 6 games... it's not likely the Giants are this bad again in the near future.. Meanwhile our Qb is going into year 15 and has shown serious signs of decline after leading us to a 3 win season The time to take a Qb is now..

Well, if we speculate, then what would you say if they win 9 and then catch fire in the playoffs?

DG must have watched every throw last year wearing rose colored glasses. He was bad. And he was bad the year before. His issues had nothing to do with who his WR’s were. They are likely fooling themselves if they think Eli is going to have some renaissance season and the team is going to pass either Dalls or Philadelphia in the standings. But, if DG and Company want to pass on a QB who goes on to become a top 10 sort of player while Eli wins less than 8 games the next 2 seasons, I hope he’s prepared to get flamed for it because then we’ll be in QB purgatory.

In comment 13874054 The_Boss said:

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DG must have watched every throw last year wearing rose colored glasses. He was bad. And he was bad the year before. His issues had nothing to do with who his WR’s were. They are likely fooling themselves if they think Eli is going to have some renaissance season and the team is going to pass either Dalls or Philadelphia in the standings. But, if DG and Company want to pass on a QB who goes on to become a top 10 sort of player while Eli wins less than 8 games the next 2 seasons, I hope he’s prepared to get flamed for it because then we’ll be in QB purgatory.

+1

or if they are leaking just as bad as the did with Reese running the show.

but not good enough to win 8 or 9 and take them to the playoffs.

That's some very very specific prognostication.

In comment 13873898 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 13873784 Britt in VA said: Quote: In comment 13873777 Greg from LI said: Quote: Watching the hordes of slobbering Barkley boosters lose their minds will be hilarious. Who do you want at two? Honestly, a trade down would be my preferred outcome.

I'm cool with a trade down, but there has to be some sort of plan. How far back would you trade, and who would you want to take there?

And the people that do aren't talking.

Look at the king's ransom teams have paid recently to trade up for QBs (Washington for RGIII, Phila for Wentz, Giants for Eli).

If they don't grab a QB now, when they have the right pick, it will be 5X more expensive to go get one later when they need to move up.

Get the best QB you can right now. Let Webb and the pick work for another year under Eli. QB competition for 2019, and you have a built in back-up, potential trade bait in your back pocket.

I'm with bw in dc....a COLOSSAL mistake will be made if they don't get a franchise QB out of the disaster known as the 2017 season.

In comment 13874054 The_Boss said:

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DG must have watched every throw last year wearing rose colored glasses. He was bad. And he was bad the year before. His issues had nothing to do with who his WR’s were. They are likely fooling themselves if they think Eli is going to have some renaissance season and the team is going to pass either Dalls or Philadelphia in the standings. But, if DG and Company want to pass on a QB who goes on to become a top 10 sort of player while Eli wins less than 8 games the next 2 seasons, I hope he’s prepared to get flamed for it because then we’ll be in QB purgatory.

It's a fascinating thought just what the hell these cast of characters are thinking at Jints Central. From most accounts, the Sentimentalists at Jints Central have Eli guilt from the Geno Gate disaster and really do think Eli wasn't as bad as he showed. It just never ends with this - build football utopia around Eli (best oline in the league, best cast of WRs/TEs, best group of RBs, best defense, specials teams, coaching, weather, sleep, food, etc) and then we will see the very best of HoFame bound Eli...

Tney might not have a choice but to take him at 2 if they think Cleveland likes him at 4

here who discounts the Webb thing but if the Giants like Webb a lot there's absolutely zero chance they are taking a QB in this draft especially at 2

In comment 13874122 bw in dc said:

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In comment 13874054 The_Boss said: Quote: DG must have watched every throw last year wearing rose colored glasses. He was bad. And he was bad the year before. His issues had nothing to do with who his WR’s were. They are likely fooling themselves if they think Eli is going to have some renaissance season and the team is going to pass either Dalls or Philadelphia in the standings. But, if DG and Company want to pass on a QB who goes on to become a top 10 sort of player while Eli wins less than 8 games the next 2 seasons, I hope he’s prepared to get flamed for it because then we’ll be in QB purgatory. It's a fascinating thought just what the hell these cast of characters are thinking at Jints Central. From most accounts, the Sentimentalists at Jints Central have Eli guilt from the Geno Gate disaster and really do think Eli wasn't as bad as he showed. It just never ends with this - build football utopia around Eli (best oline in the league, best cast of WRs/TEs, best group of RBs, best defense, specials teams, coaching, weather, sleep, food, etc) and then we will see the very best of HoFame bound Eli...

Serious question...what if they are management and coaches are right and you are wrong? WHat if they build the supporting cast just enough to allow a resurgence for Eli and they have an unexpectedly successful next two years. Maybe even win the whole thing.

Are you pissed off?

In comment 13874122 bw in dc said:

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In comment 13874054 The_Boss said: Quote: DG must have watched every throw last year wearing rose colored glasses. He was bad. And he was bad the year before. His issues had nothing to do with who his WR’s were. They are likely fooling themselves if they think Eli is going to have some renaissance season and the team is going to pass either Dalls or Philadelphia in the standings. But, if DG and Company want to pass on a QB who goes on to become a top 10 sort of player while Eli wins less than 8 games the next 2 seasons, I hope he’s prepared to get flamed for it because then we’ll be in QB purgatory. It's a fascinating thought just what the hell these cast of characters are thinking at Jints Central. From most accounts, the Sentimentalists at Jints Central have Eli guilt from the Geno Gate disaster and really do think Eli wasn't as bad as he showed. It just never ends with this - build football utopia around Eli (best oline in the league, best cast of WRs/TEs, best group of RBs, best defense, specials teams, coaching, weather, sleep, food, etc) and then we will see the very best of HoFame bound Eli...

With all due respect, I think it's your rationalizing that everybody else is wrong and you are right that is fascinating.

All of the football people that have watched the tape seem to unanimously agree that he's still physically and mentally able.

Now, in two years? Future physical decline stuff? Okay, that's debatable. But it's not showing up on film yet and the opinions of people that matter (The Sentimentalists in Jints Central) concur.

figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick.

We should assume.....we do not know what the Giants plan to do.....

If we do not take a QB.....we should trade down....if we want Barkley, we should at least trade with the Jets.

there is no way they should stay at 2 and take him. if they aren't taking a QB, they must trade down with denver and then are guaranteed extra picks and either chubb barkley or nelson. there is no way you're telling me chubb is rated that much higher than one of those two guys where you wouldn't rather roll the dice and take one of them + extra picks over chubb in the event chubb he goes 4 to cleveland

a huge complaint i've had with this organization is they don't know how to navigate the draft board with moves. you cannot stay at 2 and pick chubb it would be a very bad decision

that is, you might not have one ready to go when Eli's officially done.

If you love a QB now, pick him and start the grooming process NOW, not in 2019 or 2020 when you don't know what QB lie ahead of you. If you love a QB, do it NOW.

In comment 13874161 JonC said:

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that is, you might not have one ready to go when Eli's officially done.

Well that's where Webb comes in

In comment 13874161 JonC said:

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that is, you might not have one ready to go when Eli's officially done. If you love a QB now, pick him and start the grooming process NOW, not in 2019 or 2020 when you don't know what QB lie ahead of you. If you love a QB, do it NOW.

Maybe they just don't like one at 2. Maybe they have their eye on a guy like Lauletta that can be had in a later round.

In comment 13874131 sharpshooter66 said:

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Tney might not have a choice but to take him at 2 if they think Cleveland likes him at 4

He's kind of flown under the radar as a prospect, and I'd still like to know how good he is. It's not a great bunch of pass rushers this year, and there's probably a chance he's just a big fish in a little pond. On the surface, I'm not sure that he has any one elite skill for a top 5 picks.

In comment 13874152 JonC said:

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figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick.

How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB

the draft, there's a decent chance he's there at 6.

If you think we take a QB and the Browns take a QB + Chubb, it could easily go like this

1. Darnold
2. Rosen
3. Allen
4. Chubb
5. Mayfield
6. Barkley*

*and given the state of their defense, there's more than a chance that the Colts could go there, although I doubt it. He certainly wouldn't get past the Bucs.

In comment 13874141 Bill L said:

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Serious question...what if they are management and coaches are right and you are wrong? WHat if they build the supporting cast just enough to allow a resurgence for Eli and they have an unexpectedly successful next two years. Maybe even win the whole thing. Are you pissed off?

No.

I'm just of the belief you have to play the odds. The football actuarial tables suggest there is going to be a cliff with Eli. It's the nature of the position and the sport. And this year may really be less about the injured talent and more about the cliff effect occurring.

Thus, if you have this incredibly good fortune to have the #2 pick, and there is a good crop of QB candidates in the market, it's just a waste not to grab one for the most crucial position in the sport with a current QB on the wrong side of his productive years...

Chubb has elite athleticism for a dude his size, relentless motor. He's a top 5-6 pick in most drafts.

Just don’t see DG taking Chubb at the 2. Now I like Chubb and I actually think DE is a legit position to pick at the 2 spot, but it seems to me that in this draft, if you don’t like a QB then you can trade out of the 2 and still get a talented player AND fill a need at either G with Nelson or Chubb or even Fitzpatrick.

calling some of these potential trades a "king's ransom." The days of the Herschel Walker trade are over - we're not building a dynasty because we traded down from #2 this year. Buffalo's a competitive team that qualified for the playoffs this year, and Denver is a competent QB away from being a 10+ win team - any future picks we get from either are not guaranteed to land us top tier talent. I know quantity is nice, and you can always utilize the surplus to trade up, but I wouldn't get too cute here (to use Gettleman's words). We suffered for that #2 pick, and our aging QB - whom I love - played like garbage last year with the exception of a game or two.

In comment 13874166 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 13874161 JonC said: Quote: that is, you might not have one ready to go when Eli's officially done. If you love a QB now, pick him and start the grooming process NOW, not in 2019 or 2020 when you don't know what QB lie ahead of you. If you love a QB, do it NOW. Maybe they just don't like one at 2. Maybe they have their eye on a guy like Lauletta that can be had in a later round.

I wrote if, that clear condition is valid.

In comment 13874172 bigbluescot said:

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the draft, there's a decent chance he's there at 6. If you think we take a QB and the Browns take a QB + Chubb, it could easily go like this 1. Darnold 2. Rosen 3. Allen 4. Chubb 5. Mayfield 6. Barkley* *and given the state of their defense, there's more than a chance that the Colts could go there, although I doubt it. He certainly wouldn't get past the Bucs.

I don't think the Browns take Chubb. They have Garrett, Ogbah & Nassib. Now Ogbah & Nassib aren't on Chubb's level obv, but they are good young players. Just don't see it happening with so many other holes to fill.

we are going to draft Lauletta is also ridiculous. He's basically Webb with a much worse arm, and Webb has been in the pros for a year already.

In comment 13874168 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 13874152 JonC said: Quote: figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick. How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB

Yeah because Gettleman and Shurmur have so much film on Webb playing NFL games to go off of. He was a late 3rd round pick (by Jerry Reese no less) in what was deemed a down year QB class.

If he was a late 3rd round pick last year, where would he have been drafted this year?

In comment 13874147 Britt in VA said:

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With all due respect, I think it's your rationalizing that everybody else is wrong and you are right that is fascinating. All of the football people that have watched the tape seem to unanimously agree that he's still physically and mentally able. Now, in two years? Future physical decline stuff? Okay, that's debatable. But it's not showing up on film yet and the opinions of people that matter (The Sentimentalists in Jints Central) concur.

I wouldn't quite characterize my thoughts as I'm right and Jints Central is wrong here. I'm just connecting dots on the circumstances - Eli's production has tailed off, he's in his late 30s, he isn't mobile, his arm isn't elite, and he appears to need too many high quality things around him to be effective.

Football people are wrong all the time. So this suggestion that non-football people should simply back off and not dispute them is absurd. Jerry Reese was a "football person" and his list of transgressions/poor decision making is profound...

In comment 13874205 ryanmkeane said:

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we are going to draft Lauletta is also ridiculous. He's basically Webb with a much worse arm, and Webb has been in the pros for a year already.

I don't think they're going to do that, I just used him as an example. I've seen him play several times, living in Richmond. He's pretty good, but against what competition?

... is that whatever the direction the Giants are going in this draft, it remains unclear to everyone. Reese would have told everyone who he loves by now, and in doing so, give other teams time to execute a plan to steal him from us. At least it keeps all the rumors and speculation flying leading up to the draft - and may inflate the trade value of that pick.

In comment 13874206 NYG07 said:

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In comment 13874168 ryanmkeane said: Quote: In comment 13874152 JonC said: Quote: figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick. How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB Yeah because Gettleman and Shurmur have so much film on Webb playing NFL games to go off of. He was a late 3rd round pick (by Jerry Reese no less) in what was deemed a down year QB class. If he was a late 3rd round pick last year, where would he have been drafted this year?

You're discounting the Reese/Ross draft "prowess" :-). You know, the one that has resulted in 1 of 45 picks from 2008-2013 remaining on the roster.

gotcha, I just find it hilarious that some posters (and especially Dave Te) love Lauletta, but they don't like Webb. Webb is a much better prospect, and has been in the Giants org for a year. If they drafted Lauletta, that would mean they think Webb absolutely sucks, which they don't.

In comment 13874168 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 13874152 JonC said: Quote: figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick. How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB

Third round project pick of Reese, who couldn't get past Geno Smith to even draw practice reps. It's not definitive but it's a reasonable indicator he doesn't have the goods to step in anytime soon if at all. I've seen this story a thousand times over 35 years. DG/Shurmur aren't going to say anything besides player-friendly statements at this time.

my main concern about Webb, is that he was drafted and evanluated by Reese, Ross, and McAdoo, three people who are no longer part of the organization, and without a good track record drafting (especially in the third round).

But if the new coach and GM are on board, then by all means, keep grooming Webb for 2019/20.

that isn't among the 75% of 3rd rounders that does nothing in the NFL, that is what he is.

In comment 13874228 JonC said:

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that isn't among the 75% of 3rd rounders that does nothing in the NFL, that is what he is.

Agree with that.

In comment 13874227 Britt in VA said:

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my main concern about Webb, is that he was drafted and evanluated by Reese, Ross, and McAdoo, three people who are no longer part of the organization, and without a good track record drafting (especially in the third round). But if the new coach and GM are on board, then by all means, keep grooming Webb for 2019/20.

Sure, groom him, but don't place your whole wager on him.

In comment 13874206 NYG07 said:

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In comment 13874168 ryanmkeane said: Quote: In comment 13874152 JonC said: Quote: figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick. How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB Yeah because Gettleman and Shurmur have so much film on Webb playing NFL games to go off of. He was a late 3rd round pick (by Jerry Reese no less) in what was deemed a down year QB class. If he was a late 3rd round pick last year, where would he have been drafted this year?

Everybody has got an opinion and they are all different. So, you can pretty much find any evidence to support the view you have and say that's the truth. It's not; it's one truth of many.

With that caveat, this is, IMO, an interesting article. It's from before last year's draft.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13874230 JonC said:

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In comment 13874227 Britt in VA said: Quote: my main concern about Webb, is that he was drafted and evanluated by Reese, Ross, and McAdoo, three people who are no longer part of the organization, and without a good track record drafting (especially in the third round). But if the new coach and GM are on board, then by all means, keep grooming Webb for 2019/20. Sure, groom him, but don't place your whole wager on him.

He was always a 2 or 3 year project pick. It's the people that picked him, and their ability to evaluate, that concern me the most.

In comment 13874233 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 13874230 JonC said: Quote: In comment 13874227 Britt in VA said: Quote: my main concern about Webb, is that he was drafted and evanluated by Reese, Ross, and McAdoo, three people who are no longer part of the organization, and without a good track record drafting (especially in the third round). But if the new coach and GM are on board, then by all means, keep grooming Webb for 2019/20. Sure, groom him, but don't place your whole wager on him. He was always a 2 or 3 year project pick. It's the people that picked him, and their ability to evaluate, that concern me the most.

No argument there, they haven't gotten close to being right on a QB in many years, and now the coach/staff are gone too.

around here act like the Giants know absolutely nothing about Davis Webb. He hasn't played in a regular season NFL game. Neither has any of these QBs at the top of the draft. Also, Webb's character is pretty much unmatched. Dude lives and breathes football which is something they already know to be a fact about him.

is right twice a day. :)

In comment 13874242 ryanmkeane said:

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around here act like the Giants know absolutely nothing about Davis Webb. He hasn't played in a regular season NFL game. Neither has any of these QBs at the top of the draft. Also, Webb's character is pretty much unmatched. Dude lives and breathes football which is something they already know to be a fact about him.

I like what I know of Davis Webb. The only problem is that it isn't much. I like the potential.

finally ends up being the pick that Reese got right?

In comment 13874255 Britt in VA said:

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finally ends up being the pick that Reese got right?

LOL it certainly would be something Britt. I do not even have to list Reese's third round picks on here. We all know.

it's pedigree, consensus based on big program production and their respective projections to the NFL.

Again, it's not definitive but 32 teams decided Webb's pedigree was 3rd rounder, a historical hit-rate of 25%.

I'm not ok betting on him to take over the Giants, not remotely, it makes no sense to plan with that strategy at the team's blueprint core. Zero.

In comment 13874255 Britt in VA said:

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finally ends up being the pick that Reese got right?

I'm still hoping that OBJ turns into a decent player.....but yeah it would be funny if Reese finally hit on a pick!

every single draft pick in the NFL is a bet. If you have conviction on Webb then yes, it absolutely makes sense to bet on him. We all understand that Darnold, Rosen, and Allen were more highly rated prospects than Webb. But it's not like Webb was some late round flyer. He was highly rated as well. Some folks had him as a 2nd rounder with extremely high upside if he sat for a few years. I'm not sure I agree with your take.

25% historical hit rate, an irresponsible bet if you live in the real world. Moving on ...

In comment 13874272 Tesla said:

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In comment 13874255 Britt in VA said: Quote: finally ends up being the pick that Reese got right? I'm still hoping that OBJ turns into a decent player.....but yeah it would be funny if Reese finally hit on a pick!

I don't think we need to count the number of players left from Reese's past 10 years of drafting left on the current roster to stand by my point.

In comment 13874272 Tesla said:

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In comment 13874255 Britt in VA said: Quote: finally ends up being the pick that Reese got right? I'm still hoping that OBJ turns into a decent player.....but yeah it would be funny if Reese finally hit on a pick!

Britt was clearly talking about QBs ...

In comment 13874275 ryanmkeane said:

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every single draft pick in the NFL is a bet. If you have conviction on Webb then yes, it absolutely makes sense to bet on him. We all understand that Darnold, Rosen, and Allen were more highly rated prospects than Webb. But it's not like Webb was some late round flyer. He was highly rated as well. Some folks had him as a 2nd rounder with extremely high upside if he sat for a few years. I'm not sure I agree with your take.

Webb wasn't highly rated by anyone... Any Qb that is highly rated by anyone will be picked very early.. Tom Brady and Russel Wilson were surprises

In comment 13874286 GoBlue6599 said:

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In comment 13874275 ryanmkeane said: Quote: every single draft pick in the NFL is a bet. If you have conviction on Webb then yes, it absolutely makes sense to bet on him. We all understand that Darnold, Rosen, and Allen were more highly rated prospects than Webb. But it's not like Webb was some late round flyer. He was highly rated as well. Some folks had him as a 2nd rounder with extremely high upside if he sat for a few years. I'm not sure I agree with your take. Webb wasn't highly rated by anyone... Any Qb that is highly rated by anyone will be picked very early.. Tom Brady and Russel Wilson were surprises

Thats not true, and there have been many examples posted on here that show that. You can want to draft a QB, thats fine, but lets not alter facts.

I've said, my view is that none of the QBs are worth the #2 pick. That conclusion has nothing to do with Webb.

Webb has a lot of physical tools, and a relentless work ethic and drive to succeed. I wouldn't therefore be surprised if he became an excellent QB. A 25% success rate isn't a 0% success rate. But he has still a third round pick, despite all these attributes, and the chatter that he could be drafted in the first round.

We know nothing about Webb. The Giants know next to nothing.

The arguments for QB or no QB have merits on both sides, and on't be resolved for several years. While I have opinions, I think that's not the biggest issue.

It's what Eric alluded to earlier- the apparent predictability to others of what our choice is or is not to be.

I have no confidence in our track record in recent drafts at being unpredictable.

I have no confidence from Carolina drafts that DG yet has shown an ability to manipulate the draft, at least in early rounds.

He has shown a propensity to draft lineman, both offensive and defensive with reasonable success, but less so at other positions.

I agree this is a draft he must get right- but I'd add, less about the player, and more about fair value, or where he get's them, and what potentially he get's in return.

If he drafts Chubb at 2,he may show an ability to pick the right player, but not make the draft work for him.

And demonstrate we still cannot play the misinformation game-which would seem to be vital here.

I'm with you...it's funny that some folks here think that Webb is the equivalent to an undrafted free agent or even a late round flyer.

He was anywhere from a late 1 to round 3 prospect, who was the MVP of the senior bowl and has better arm talent than some of the QBs in this year's draft that people want to take at 2 overall.

In comment 13874242 ryanmkeane said:

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around here act like the Giants know absolutely nothing about Davis Webb. He hasn't played in a regular season NFL game. Neither has any of these QBs at the top of the draft. Also, Webb's character is pretty much unmatched. Dude lives and breathes football which is something they already know to be a fact about him.

then you trade out of #2.

In comment 13874317 ryanmkeane said:

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I'm with you...it's funny that some folks here think that Webb is the equivalent to an undrafted free agent or even a late round flyer. He was anywhere from a late 1 to round 3 prospect, who was the MVP of the senior bowl and has better arm talent than some of the QBs in this year's draft that people want to take at 2 overall.

Better arm talent? Based on what? There are going to be 4 QBs taken in the first 5 picks of this draft. Webb was not even remotely in the conversation for a top 10 pick last year, by actual NFL evaluators.

In comment 13874228 JonC said:

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that isn't among the 75% of 3rd rounders that does nothing in the NFL, that is what he is.

Yay! An intelligent well reasoned comment. It's refreshing that someone is not comparing him with to Tom Brady or that he somehow had this transcendent experience that transformed him from a Jerry Reese late third rounder to a bona fide NFL star playing against guys who will be packing grocieries this season.

Is it so unreasonable that the Giants have no real idea what they have in in Webb, because of his lack of time last year and really have to depend on his college film, which objectively should not excite anyone.

Let's also clarify something with Tom Brady- and this in no way addresses his ability now- but when he was drafted, the patriots had a number on overall pick 29 year old qb who had been to multiple pro bowls and wasn't far removed from leading that team to a SB appearance. Why does this matter? Well, simply stated, the patriots had no intention of tom Brady comparisons ever touching the field in a meaningful way. The patriots had no idea what Brady was until the Bledsoe injury. It was a pleasant surprise not a realistic strategy the patriots had ever employed. So utilizing a later round pick as a way to find a franchise qb isn't really a compelling strategy.

I know, I've already reae that taking a qb in any round is risky, but ts been posted on this site before, the hit rate is far higher inside the top 5. Do you want to roll the dice on a 25% hit rate over a 60% hit rate. Unfortunately I heclikelihood is that Webb ends up a below average starter or a lip board holder. I'd love to be proven wrong by him, but the odds are against him.

In comment 13874110 Britt in VA said:

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I'm cool with a trade down, but there has to be some sort of plan. How far back would you trade, and who would you want to take there?

Ideally, swap with Denver @ 5. One of Nelson or Fitzpatrick will probably be there, I'd imagine.

In comment 13874214 FanMan said:

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... is that whatever the direction the Giants are going in this draft, it remains unclear to everyone. Reese would have told everyone who he loves by now, and in doing so, give other teams time to execute a plan to steal him from us. At least it keeps all the rumors and speculation flying leading up to the draft - and may inflate the trade value of that pick.

It maybe subjective mrmory and observstion, but I don't recall anyone getting jumped in the draft more than Reese.

In comment 13874349 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 13874110 Britt in VA said: Quote: I'm cool with a trade down, but there has to be some sort of plan. How far back would you trade, and who would you want to take there? Ideally, swap with Denver @ 5. One of Nelson or Fitzpatrick will probably be there, I'd imagine.

1st round pick next year in the deal? I'm cool with that.

And view all 3 equally trade backs nd try to get as many picks as possible...

If you sit at 2 take the quarterback you like, no reason to take the positional players at 2...

In comment 13873728 AcidTest said:

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I'm not convinced of anything right now. We're still five weeks away. And that's the way it should be. Disinformation, not information.

If you WERE convinced, why would anyone conclude that was because of Information and not Disinformation?

is an immediate remote tosser.

trade back will be a think about it remote tosser.

Mayfield and Rosen's pro day workouts.
Darnold's and Allen's pro days are this week (Wed & Friday).
Odds are pretty strong that there will be a strong presence at both of these as well.

I can't see the Giants sending that big of a contingent to these workouts if they were going to go another direction.

Barkley & Chubb's workouts are this week as well. Let's see who/how many Giants reps are there.

Best bet for the Giants is to get Cleveland to believe they are going to take Barkley, and get them to trade up from 4 to 2....multiple 2nd picks would build the roster, and allow the Giants to pick one of Darnold/Rosen/Allen.

In comment 13873785 BestFeature said:

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I hate when GMs outsmart themselves

You're an expert on that, are ya?

In comment 13874419 Tom in NY said:

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Mayfield and Rosen's pro day workouts. Darnold's and Allen's pro days are this week (Wed & Friday). Odds are pretty strong that there will be a strong presence at both of these as well. I can't see the Giants sending that big of a contingent to these workouts if they were going to go another direction. Barkley & Chubb's workouts are this week as well. Let's see who/how many Giants reps are there. Best bet for the Giants is to get Cleveland to believe they are going to take Barkley, and get them to trade up from 4 to 2....multiple 2nd picks would build the roster, and allow the Giants to pick one of Darnold/Rosen/Allen.

...meaning that IF Cleveland wants Barkley they need to come up to 2 to get him.

get the QB they absolutely want and trade them for Barkley and a shitload of extra picks.

In comment 13874413 baadbill said:

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In comment 13873728 AcidTest said: Quote: I'm not convinced of anything right now. We're still five weeks away. And that's the way it should be. Disinformation, not information. If you WERE convinced, why would anyone conclude that was because of Information and not Disinformation?

Point taken.

In comment 13874417 SHO'NUFF said:

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is an immediate remote tosser. trade back will be a think about it remote tosser.

+1

In comment 13873830 Eric from BBI said:

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my question last week about how would BBI react if the Giants took Chubb at #2.

Put remote through chipper, place remains in coal fired oven, cover ashes in molten lead and drop lead in deepest part of the Pacific Ocean, make Vodoo Doll of DG and stab repeatedly.

Is a very good/clean prospect. He would give the Giants the ability to move on from Vernon or JPP’s contract if they choose.

I’d rather trade down but I can see why they’d stick at 2 and take Chubb.

Heard it from a friend who heard it from another Big Blue ain't going QB
But I don't believe it, not for a minute.... - ( New Window )

just said on Moving the Chains that he'd take Chubb at #2 if he were DG as of right now....said they're's a big gap for pass rushers after Chubb and there are plenty of good RB's.

In comment 13874210 bw in dc said:

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In comment 13874147 Britt in VA said: Quote: With all due respect, I think it's your rationalizing that everybody else is wrong and you are right that is fascinating. All of the football people that have watched the tape seem to unanimously agree that he's still physically and mentally able. Now, in two years? Future physical decline stuff? Okay, that's debatable. But it's not showing up on film yet and the opinions of people that matter (The Sentimentalists in Jints Central) concur. I wouldn't quite characterize my thoughts as I'm right and Jints Central is wrong here. I'm just connecting dots on the circumstances - Eli's production has tailed off, he's in his late 30s, he isn't mobile, his arm isn't elite, and he appears to need too many high quality things around him to be effective. Football people are wrong all the time. So this suggestion that non-football people should simply back off and not dispute them is absurd. Jerry Reese was a "football person" and his list of transgressions/poor decision making is profound...

what if Eli's problems are not all on the O line and that his crappy play the last few years is simply his normal decline as happens to all QBs even the great ones. Over looking whats going on with Eli will be a mistake we'll pay for long after this draft is over...

In comment 13874705 Strip-Sack said:

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just said on Moving the Chains that he'd take Chubb at #2 if he were DG as of right now....said they're's a big gap for pass rushers after Chubb and there are plenty of good RB's.

Would be reminiscent of Houston Texans 2006 draft, when they were criticized for passing on Reggie Bush and Vince Young in favor of Mario Williams. I remember thinking Casserly blew it at the time, but was quickly reminded that I am just a chuckle headed fan and the pros know more.

And plenty of Pros didn't notice that Trent Richardson wouldn't be able to adapt to the speed of the NFL and struggled to read his blocks.

but don't think I'd be upset if they pulled the trigger on Chubb the more I look into him.
Link - ( New Window )

Are those of non-QBs

In comment 13874705 Strip-Sack said:

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just said on Moving the Chains that he'd take Chubb at #2 if he were DG as of right now....said they're's a big gap for pass rushers after Chubb and there are plenty of good RB's.

I could live with this very reluctantly because pass rushers are in short supply. The QB is the best move, but this would have some logic to it.

And this is not as absurd as drafting Barkley or Nelson.

In comment 13874755 bw in dc said:

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In comment 13874705 Strip-Sack said: Quote: just said on Moving the Chains that he'd take Chubb at #2 if he were DG as of right now....said they're's a big gap for pass rushers after Chubb and there are plenty of good RB's. I could live with this very reluctantly because pass rushers are in short supply. The QB is the best move, but this would have some logic to it. And this is not as absurd as drafting Barkley or Nelson.

If Rosen were to go #1 overall, Chubb and Mayfield would be the only others I would consider with the #2 pick, but trading down would probably be my favorite option at that point.

In comment 13874758 Milton said:

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If Rosen were to go #1 overall, Chubb and Mayfield would be the only others I would consider with the #2 pick, but trading down would probably be my favorite option at that point.

Agree (not on Mayfield) - then get the hell out of the 2 hole and find a buyer for that slot.

My sequence Rosen > Darnold > Trade Out or Chubb.

In comment 13874762 bw in dc said:

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In comment 13874758 Milton said: Quote: If Rosen were to go #1 overall, Chubb and Mayfield would be the only others I would consider with the #2 pick, but trading down would probably be my favorite option at that point. Agree (not on Mayfield) - then get the hell out of the 2 hole and find a buyer for that slot. My sequence Rosen > Darnold > Trade Out or Chubb.

I was previously of that opinion, but I've warmed up to Mayfield, and Darnold's poor athletic testing at the combine was a major buzz-kill. It suggests a poor work ethic (because you gotta believe he's a better athlete than that). And while it may just be smoke, I read that he "wasn't as advanced on the whiteboard" as teams expected/hoped him to be. Meanwhile Mayfield has grown on me (no pun intended). I worry about his defensive personality (I can already envision clashes with the media) and his adjustment to throwing to receivers who aren't wide open, but I think he is "potentially" worth the gamble (I really haven't researched him enough to have a strong enough opinion one way or the other).

and trade him. If the Jets want him, tell them to take Barkley and give us another draft pick (similar to what the Giants did by picking Phillip Rivers).

If they don't want to trade, then the Giants keep Rosen and he is the QB of the future. Of course this would only work if the Giants had a high grade on Rosen, which they should.

...it's Darnold/Rosen/Barkley/Nelson. In that order. Took a lot of research to arrive at this slotting and I doubt I'll change it again before the Draft.

The absolute least I'd take from Cleveland to move down to #4 overall is a swap our 5th Rounder this season for their 1st rounder next season. Otherwise I stand pat at #2.

The Giants are passing on a QB with the #2 pick but they can't be sure the Giants won't trade it to a team wanting a QB at 2.

They'd better be content to take whichever one is left at #3 or are prepared to ante up so they can swap places with the Giants.

I'm sure if they stay at 3 and take whoever is left they'll say that was the guy they wanted all along, but I can't believe they rate all of them the same. They must have an eye on one, maybe two guys and why I can't believe they made this trade to 3 without it being a jumping point to move up further.