He said, the Jets are convinced Giants are not taking quarterback with the second pick, Schwartz seems to concur with that assessment.
Said Giants will be true to their board, and just doesn't believe they have any of the quarterbacks valued as the second best player in the draft
Believes Chubb is a distinct possibility or a trade down with Denver for Nelson
A 3rd of BBI will be Happy
And a 3rd of BBI will spell the new draftees name incorrectly
This is 100% correct.
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In comment 13873938 The 12th Man said:
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In comment 13873804 NYG07 said:
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In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said:
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Mark it down
And what if they take a qb and that qb busts?
What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible?
What if a crow had a banjo on his ass there would be music in the air. What if the QB they potentially drafts sucks. No one knows what will happen. OBJ had how many teams pass on him. It happens, you have no idea it is a crap shoot. Eli, was an elite and everyone knew it. None of these QB's are, they might be eventually but as of now they are all crap shoots. So you can declare whatever about Eli or Webb but how do you know Eli's decline is not because of the lack of running game and our pitiful OL?
I will say it a thousand times. Eli is 37 years old! Not only that, he was certainly not the consensus number one pick in 2004. He was the favorite, but many teams viewed Roethlisberger and Rivers as better prospects. Much like this year, where Darnold is the favorite, but no one really knows if he is the best.
If anything could come from the catastrophic season we just had to witness, it is the chance to take the next QB who can lead this team for the future. So if they don't believe in any of these QBs, then they should trade back and accumulate as many picks as possible. Because when they do need a QB in the near future, they are going to have to sacrifice a ton of assets to move up to get one.
If Eli declines, and Webb is terrible, then they are worse than this year, right? So, how many picks need to be accumulated to move up from #2?
No, I disagree. Even if Eli reverts to 2016 form (27th in total QBR), and the team stays relatively healthy, they have enough talent to finish at least 6-10. So figure they have the 12th pick in the 2019 draft. You are talking about at the very least 3 first round picks to move up to take a QB. Who is even going to be available in the next draft? Is there anyone worth taking? This is a rich crop of QBs. Just take one you believe in, even if you are trying to win this year.
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In comment 13873938 The 12th Man said:
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In comment 13873804 NYG07 said:
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In comment 13873779 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13873775 NYSports1 said:
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Mark it down
And what if they take a qb and that qb busts?
What if they don't take a QB and Eli continues his massive decline and Webb is terrible?
What if a crow had a banjo on his ass there would be music in the air. What if the QB they potentially drafts sucks. No one knows what will happen. OBJ had how many teams pass on him. It happens, you have no idea it is a crap shoot. Eli, was an elite and everyone knew it. None of these QB's are, they might be eventually but as of now they are all crap shoots. So you can declare whatever about Eli or Webb but how do you know Eli's decline is not because of the lack of running game and our pitiful OL?
I will say it a thousand times. Eli is 37 years old! Not only that, he was certainly not the consensus number one pick in 2004. He was the favorite, but many teams viewed Roethlisberger and Rivers as better prospects. Much like this year, where Darnold is the favorite, but no one really knows if he is the best.
If anything could come from the catastrophic season we just had to witness, it is the chance to take the next QB who can lead this team for the future. So if they don't believe in any of these QBs, then they should trade back and accumulate as many picks as possible. Because when they do need a QB in the near future, they are going to have to sacrifice a ton of assets to move up to get one.
If Eli declines, and Webb is terrible, then they are worse than this year, right? So, how many picks need to be accumulated to move up from #2?
What if they win 6 games... it's not likely the Giants are this bad again in the near future.. Meanwhile our Qb is going into year 15 and has shown serious signs of decline after leading us to a 3 win season
The time to take a Qb is now..
What if they win 6 games... it's not likely the Giants are this bad again in the near future.. Meanwhile our Qb is going into year 15 and has shown serious signs of decline after leading us to a 3 win season
The time to take a Qb is now..
Well, if we speculate, then what would you say if they win 9 and then catch fire in the playoffs?
+1
That's some very very specific prognostication.
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In comment 13873777 Greg from LI said:
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Watching the hordes of slobbering Barkley boosters lose their minds will be hilarious.
Who do you want at two?
Honestly, a trade down would be my preferred outcome.
I'm cool with a trade down, but there has to be some sort of plan. How far back would you trade, and who would you want to take there?
If they don't grab a QB now, when they have the right pick, it will be 5X more expensive to go get one later when they need to move up.
Get the best QB you can right now. Let Webb and the pick work for another year under Eli. QB competition for 2019, and you have a built in back-up, potential trade bait in your back pocket.
I'm with bw in dc....a COLOSSAL mistake will be made if they don't get a franchise QB out of the disaster known as the 2017 season.
It's a fascinating thought just what the hell these cast of characters are thinking at Jints Central. From most accounts, the Sentimentalists at Jints Central have Eli guilt from the Geno Gate disaster and really do think Eli wasn't as bad as he showed. It just never ends with this - build football utopia around Eli (best oline in the league, best cast of WRs/TEs, best group of RBs, best defense, specials teams, coaching, weather, sleep, food, etc) and then we will see the very best of HoFame bound Eli...
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DG must have watched every throw last year wearing rose colored glasses. He was bad. And he was bad the year before. His issues had nothing to do with who his WR’s were. They are likely fooling themselves if they think Eli is going to have some renaissance season and the team is going to pass either Dalls or Philadelphia in the standings. But, if DG and Company want to pass on a QB who goes on to become a top 10 sort of player while Eli wins less than 8 games the next 2 seasons, I hope he’s prepared to get flamed for it because then we’ll be in QB purgatory.
It's a fascinating thought just what the hell these cast of characters are thinking at Jints Central. From most accounts, the Sentimentalists at Jints Central have Eli guilt from the Geno Gate disaster and really do think Eli wasn't as bad as he showed. It just never ends with this - build football utopia around Eli (best oline in the league, best cast of WRs/TEs, best group of RBs, best defense, specials teams, coaching, weather, sleep, food, etc) and then we will see the very best of HoFame bound Eli...
Are you pissed off?
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DG must have watched every throw last year wearing rose colored glasses. He was bad. And he was bad the year before. His issues had nothing to do with who his WR’s were. They are likely fooling themselves if they think Eli is going to have some renaissance season and the team is going to pass either Dalls or Philadelphia in the standings. But, if DG and Company want to pass on a QB who goes on to become a top 10 sort of player while Eli wins less than 8 games the next 2 seasons, I hope he’s prepared to get flamed for it because then we’ll be in QB purgatory.
It's a fascinating thought just what the hell these cast of characters are thinking at Jints Central. From most accounts, the Sentimentalists at Jints Central have Eli guilt from the Geno Gate disaster and really do think Eli wasn't as bad as he showed. It just never ends with this - build football utopia around Eli (best oline in the league, best cast of WRs/TEs, best group of RBs, best defense, specials teams, coaching, weather, sleep, food, etc) and then we will see the very best of HoFame bound Eli...
With all due respect, I think it's your rationalizing that everybody else is wrong and you are right that is fascinating.
All of the football people that have watched the tape seem to unanimously agree that he's still physically and mentally able.
Now, in two years? Future physical decline stuff? Okay, that's debatable. But it's not showing up on film yet and the opinions of people that matter (The Sentimentalists in Jints Central) concur.
If we do not take a QB.....we should trade down....if we want Barkley, we should at least trade with the Jets.
a huge complaint i've had with this organization is they don't know how to navigate the draft board with moves. you cannot stay at 2 and pick chubb it would be a very bad decision
If you love a QB now, pick him and start the grooming process NOW, not in 2019 or 2020 when you don't know what QB lie ahead of you. If you love a QB, do it NOW.
Well that's where Webb comes in
If you love a QB now, pick him and start the grooming process NOW, not in 2019 or 2020 when you don't know what QB lie ahead of you. If you love a QB, do it NOW.
Maybe they just don't like one at 2. Maybe they have their eye on a guy like Lauletta that can be had in a later round.
He's kind of flown under the radar as a prospect, and I'd still like to know how good he is. It's not a great bunch of pass rushers this year, and there's probably a chance he's just a big fish in a little pond. On the surface, I'm not sure that he has any one elite skill for a top 5 picks.
How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB
If you think we take a QB and the Browns take a QB + Chubb, it could easily go like this
1. Darnold
2. Rosen
3. Allen
4. Chubb
5. Mayfield
6. Barkley*
*and given the state of their defense, there's more than a chance that the Colts could go there, although I doubt it. He certainly wouldn't get past the Bucs.
Are you pissed off?
No.
I'm just of the belief you have to play the odds. The football actuarial tables suggest there is going to be a cliff with Eli. It's the nature of the position and the sport. And this year may really be less about the injured talent and more about the cliff effect occurring.
Thus, if you have this incredibly good fortune to have the #2 pick, and there is a good crop of QB candidates in the market, it's just a waste not to grab one for the most crucial position in the sport with a current QB on the wrong side of his productive years...
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that is, you might not have one ready to go when Eli's officially done.
If you love a QB now, pick him and start the grooming process NOW, not in 2019 or 2020 when you don't know what QB lie ahead of you. If you love a QB, do it NOW.
Maybe they just don't like one at 2. Maybe they have their eye on a guy like Lauletta that can be had in a later round.
I wrote if, that clear condition is valid.
If you think we take a QB and the Browns take a QB + Chubb, it could easily go like this
1. Darnold
2. Rosen
3. Allen
4. Chubb
5. Mayfield
6. Barkley*
*and given the state of their defense, there's more than a chance that the Colts could go there, although I doubt it. He certainly wouldn't get past the Bucs.
I don't think the Browns take Chubb. They have Garrett, Ogbah & Nassib. Now Ogbah & Nassib aren't on Chubb's level obv, but they are good young players. Just don't see it happening with so many other holes to fill.
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figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick.
How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB
Yeah because Gettleman and Shurmur have so much film on Webb playing NFL games to go off of. He was a late 3rd round pick (by Jerry Reese no less) in what was deemed a down year QB class.
If he was a late 3rd round pick last year, where would he have been drafted this year?
With all due respect, I think it's your rationalizing that everybody else is wrong and you are right that is fascinating.
All of the football people that have watched the tape seem to unanimously agree that he's still physically and mentally able.
Now, in two years? Future physical decline stuff? Okay, that's debatable. But it's not showing up on film yet and the opinions of people that matter (The Sentimentalists in Jints Central) concur.
I wouldn't quite characterize my thoughts as I'm right and Jints Central is wrong here. I'm just connecting dots on the circumstances - Eli's production has tailed off, he's in his late 30s, he isn't mobile, his arm isn't elite, and he appears to need too many high quality things around him to be effective.
Football people are wrong all the time. So this suggestion that non-football people should simply back off and not dispute them is absurd. Jerry Reese was a "football person" and his list of transgressions/poor decision making is profound...
I don't think they're going to do that, I just used him as an example. I've seen him play several times, living in Richmond. He's pretty good, but against what competition?
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In comment 13874152 JonC said:
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figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick.
How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB
Yeah because Gettleman and Shurmur have so much film on Webb playing NFL games to go off of. He was a late 3rd round pick (by Jerry Reese no less) in what was deemed a down year QB class.
If he was a late 3rd round pick last year, where would he have been drafted this year?
You're discounting the Reese/Ross draft "prowess" :-). You know, the one that has resulted in 1 of 45 picks from 2008-2013 remaining on the roster.
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figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick.
How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB
Third round project pick of Reese, who couldn't get past Geno Smith to even draw practice reps. It's not definitive but it's a reasonable indicator he doesn't have the goods to step in anytime soon if at all. I've seen this story a thousand times over 35 years. DG/Shurmur aren't going to say anything besides player-friendly statements at this time.
But if the new coach and GM are on board, then by all means, keep grooming Webb for 2019/20.
Agree with that.
But if the new coach and GM are on board, then by all means, keep grooming Webb for 2019/20.
Sure, groom him, but don't place your whole wager on him.
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In comment 13874152 JonC said:
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figures to have little to do with the #2 overall pick.
How do you figure? If they like him as Eli's successor, it would be pretty silly to draft a QB
Yeah because Gettleman and Shurmur have so much film on Webb playing NFL games to go off of. He was a late 3rd round pick (by Jerry Reese no less) in what was deemed a down year QB class.
If he was a late 3rd round pick last year, where would he have been drafted this year?
Everybody has got an opinion and they are all different. So, you can pretty much find any evidence to support the view you have and say that's the truth. It's not; it's one truth of many.
With that caveat, this is, IMO, an interesting article. It's from before last year's draft.
Link - ( New Window )
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my main concern about Webb, is that he was drafted and evanluated by Reese, Ross, and McAdoo, three people who are no longer part of the organization, and without a good track record drafting (especially in the third round).
But if the new coach and GM are on board, then by all means, keep grooming Webb for 2019/20.
Sure, groom him, but don't place your whole wager on him.
He was always a 2 or 3 year project pick. It's the people that picked him, and their ability to evaluate, that concern me the most.
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In comment 13874227 Britt in VA said:
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my main concern about Webb, is that he was drafted and evanluated by Reese, Ross, and McAdoo, three people who are no longer part of the organization, and without a good track record drafting (especially in the third round).
But if the new coach and GM are on board, then by all means, keep grooming Webb for 2019/20.
Sure, groom him, but don't place your whole wager on him.
He was always a 2 or 3 year project pick. It's the people that picked him, and their ability to evaluate, that concern me the most.
No argument there, they haven't gotten close to being right on a QB in many years, and now the coach/staff are gone too.