NFT: Knicks Chat: Bulls tank may be unstoppable.

His shooting and aggression are getting better day by day. And he still hasn't had a full year of real work outs yet. He'll keep getting better.

If he was there at 9 so no surprise carlisle likes him

defensive +/- numbers are really positive. The team is 5 ppg better with him on the floor defensively, which is a lot obviously. He just needs to develop a decent 3 point shot and he'll be a valuable starter for a long time.

Hardaway, Beasley and Kanter are playing significant minutes, we're going to win a few games down the stretch.

In comment 13873800 Enzo said:

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Hardaway, Beasley and Kanter are playing significant minutes, we're going to win a few games down the stretch.

Yep. The good news is that teams in the 10-12 spots have quite a few more wins that we do, so we're not dropping any lower than ninth. It would be nice to climb a spot or two, but we started out too strong this year. You play .500 ball for any length of time in an NBA season, and you can forget about a top five pick.

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Are the Bull serious? I don't even blame them because its in their best interests but the NBA has a problem.

Lavine scored 20 points last Thursday and now he can't play on Monday? These guys aren't even traveling with the team. They are just being given days off.

If a third of the league is punting on the end of the year, the NBA needs to fix it. This isn't even Robin Lopez or Holiday being shut down. This is 3 young foundation players for Chicago. Not to mention they are entertaining to watch. This is a very bad look for the league.

Last year the Mavs shut down Harrison Barnes for the last few weeks - a young, healthy player to whom they paid a fortune in free agency. I wish Silver could execute some "best interest of the game clause" and punish teams for this type of shit.

In comment 13873875 bceagle05 said:

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Last year the Mavs shut down Harrison Barnes for the last few weeks - a young, healthy player to whom they paid a fortune in free agency. I wish Silver could execute some "best interest of the game clause" and punish teams for this type of shit.

Didn't the sun's shut down Bledsoe with like 2 months left?

of his relationship with the Suns.

And didn't the league already speak to the Bulls about sitting players?

The Knicks are 5 point favorites tonight. That's hard to believe but the Bulls are leaving their 3 best players at home...

Knicks have 12 games left. Only other time they may be favored is at home against Orlando. Even if they go 2-10 they are probably locked into the 9th spot of the lottery. The 2 cavs games to end the season scare me less now. I just read an article that Lebron wants to play all 82 games. What a novel concept, actually trying hard to win in every game. He gets a ton of shit but Lebron doesn't get enough credit for this.

The NBA is a weird place. You have teams telling healthy players to stay home to increase their chances of losing. Then you have the Knicks telling Noah to stay home because he sucks and doesn't get along with the coach. All for the small price of 17 mill a year. While productive NFL players get their bodies destroyed and get cut after good seasons (i.e. Hankins). Just a strange comparison.

Not getting fully guaranteed contracts, don't sign contracts that go longer than 3 years then, cousins got 3 years fully guaranteed but if he went with a 5 year deal do you tho k they fully guaranteeing 5 years? No..

Owners in the NFL will never do it because the risk is to high..

Everyone says well the NBA has 5 years guaranteed,it is because owners feel they have a better chance of getting a return on their investment, you can have non guaranteed contreacts but the players have already set the precedent...

4-18 from the field, 3-12 from three. Chalk it up to that zone defense I guess.

In comment 13874238 nygiants16 said:

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Not getting fully guaranteed contracts, don't sign contracts that go longer than 3 years then, cousins got 3 years fully guaranteed but if he went with a 5 year deal do you tho k they fully guaranteeing 5 years? No.. Owners in the NFL will never do it because the risk is to high.. Everyone says well the NBA has 5 years guaranteed,it is because owners feel they have a better chance of getting a return on their investment, you can have non guaranteed contreacts but the players have already set the precedent...

On top of that expirings still have some value, so that makes the pain of bad deals a bit less. Also stretching helps.

In comment 13874274 bceagle05 said:

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4-18 from the field, 3-12 from three. Chalk it up to that zone defense I guess.

Guys that are doing themselves favors in the tourney:

Shai Gilgeous Alexander: 23 PPG, 6.5 APG, 7 RPG, 3.5 SPG. A backcourt of Frank and SGA would be TERRIFYING defensively in a few years. He's also up to 42% from 3. I'm not sure I would label Trae Young the clear cut #1 PG prospect at this point.

Robert Williams: 10.5 PPG, 13.5 RPG, 2 BPG in limited minutes. He might be too traditional of a center to go top 10 but I don't think there's much downside risk- he is what he is.

Mikal Bridges: 18 PPG. Up to 44% from 3 on the season on 6 attempts per game.


I think for me it's between the two Bridges and SGA. You have great 2 way potential with all these guys. I think SGA would look even better in the NBA with better spacing, I think his size mismatch ability can make him a sleeper. MIkal bridges is my de facto pick still.

Teams won’t tank as much when there is less certainty about getting a pick. Bulls and Knicks are fighting for a draft slot somewhere between 7-10. Big difference between 7 and 10 in this draft. If they were just fighting for extra balls in the lottery, you would not see tanking

Yeah, and some team with the worst record one time will wind up drafting 8th. So what. It is better to have a third of the league deliberately trying to lose games over the last two months of the season?

In comment 13874458 Vanzetti said:

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Teams won’t tank as much when there is less certainty about getting a pick. Bulls and Knicks are fighting for a draft slot somewhere between 7-10. Big difference between 7 and 10 in this draft. If they were just fighting for extra balls in the lottery, you would not see tanking Yeah, and some team with the worst record one time will wind up drafting 8th. So what. It is better to have a third of the league deliberately trying to lose games over the last two months of the season?

If some teams have less chance of getting a pick by virtue other teams will have a higher chance of getting it. If the 14th worst team has a similar chance as the 4th worst team, tanking will start creeping up to the 5-8 seeds.

I still think a repeater penalty is a decent method. There's no quick fix at all for this.

Every team gets the first pick once every 30 years and it cycles around. Maybe do it in some weird order so you have a top 5 pick every six years or whatever. Would also add more structure to trades because teams would know exactly what they were giving up.

Any form of lottery or reverse-order draft incentivizes tanking.
Lottery Wheel - ( New Window )

In comment 13874274 bceagle05 said:

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4-18 from the field, 3-12 from three. Chalk it up to that zone defense I guess.

Harden was 2 for 10 against 'Cuse in the tourney back in 2009. I remember being shocked he was drafted so high, since he looked awful in the one game I saw him. I was slightly wrong about him...

Either way, don't judge a player by how they look against a the 2-3 zone with a day's worth of practice.

In comment 13874274 bceagle05 said:

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4-18 from the field, 3-12 from three. Chalk it up to that zone defense I guess.

He's not the Hall of Fame coach of the team. They needed to play small with him in a hi-lo around the FT line. Instead, they blew a championship-level roster watching him chuck up threes from the corner. To be fair though, he does have a tendency to force shots.

They had these guys chasing little guys at the 3 point line...

Bridges shoots 37 percent from 3 but he should of been the guy at the top of the key getting the ball and feeding or shooting midrange.

and had the same reaction when he was drafted high. Didn't mean to kill Bridges - everyone has ugly games and Boeheim's defense is tough to navigate.

Great to see Gilgeous-Alexander coming on strong - there's a lot to like about his game on both ends of the floor.

this being a 7 player draft this year. We do this every year. It was a 3 player draft KP's year. Last year it was a 7 player draft and guys like Mitchell, OG and Collins were on the board.

Obviously a top 3 pick would be nice but realistically that was never in the cards with a top 25 player. I'm not complaining picking 9 vs 6. Half the players we assume that consist of this "7 player draft" will be busts. That's just historically true. There will be players draft 8 onwards that will be better than guys in the top 7. It's just a matter of getting it right/being lucky.

I'll happily take the Bridgeses or SGA. I personally think SGA has a higher ceiling that those 2, not just because he's a freshman. All star players exhibit different levels of the same 3 qualities: they can shoot, they can ball handle and they are physical mismatches. This can be seen with Mitchell, who absolutely shouldn't have fallen as far as he did. I think SGA checks these boxes.

Stealing this from another forum:

"With the help of Sports Reference's Play Index, I've attempted to distill point guards down to statistical thresholds predicative for success (query viewable here).

CRITERIA

College Freshman: early success as a translatable metric for skill/growth potential.
14 Points Per Game: baseline for offensive contributions
4 assists Per Game: baseline for playmaking ability
48% Effective Field Goal Percentage: weighted 2pt and 3pt shooting efficiency
6.5% Total Rebounding Percentage: as a measure of physicality and effort


Since the 2010 NBA Draft, eight point guards have met this criteria, and all have been early draft selections:

John Wall, 2010 1st Overall
Kyrie Irving, 2011 1st Overall
D'Angelo Russell, 2015 2nd Overall
Ben Simmons, 2016 1st Overall
Markelle Fultz, 2017 1st Overall
Lonzo Ball, 2017 2nd Overall
De'Aaron Fox, 2017 5th Overall
Dennis Smith, Jr, 2017 9th Overall"

SGA is in this group this year. He'll more than likely be on the board when the Knicks pick.
Link - ( New Window )

the team with the best record in the lottery would get the 1st pick in the draft. Make teams earn the number 1 pick. Also teams closer to the playoffs adding a great player to a competitive team would create another team that can potentially compete for a championship

Lance is out tonight - now there's no way we lose.

Epic.

is my favorite pick right now at 9, if he lasts. Really impressive set of skills to impact the game in a number of ways. Well spotted.

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In comment 13874919 nygiants16 said:

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Good question. Hornacek's treatment of him is disgusting.

So nice to get that heavy dose of Beasley iso ball. Wasn't Hornacek supposed to have some imaginative offense? What an empty suit.

I am good with either bridges or Knox at 9 so if they win it doesn't really bother me...

Would be nice to move up but not happening

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In comment 13874919 nygiants16 said:

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It’s unbelievable. Some poster was criticizing me last week for saying Frank needed more minutes. A lot of this player development talk around the league is bullshit and they just want to tank. But with Frank this experience is very valuable. I honestly believe Hornacek wants to be fired.

Also Hardaway is the epitome of the player who feasts on bad teams and struggles against good ones.

is basically the entire league though really. Any team worth a damn is going to play the type of defense that puts the clamps on a situation where one player is the only real scoring threat.

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should be priority #1 for the whole franchise right now. Instead we get Beasley, Lee and Hardaway launching jumpers all night.

#culture

I am convinced this guy is trying to lose. May GarPax made a deal with him. He has been awful.

Might be safe to sub in an NBA player now.

In comment 13874941 nygiants16 said:

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I am good with either bridges or Knox at 9 so if they win it doesn't really bother me... Would be nice to move up but not happening

Mikal Bridges, Knox and SGA all on display on Thursday and Friday nights ... will try to watch both games. I agree that we'll have good choices at 9 so I'm not losing sleep over not moving up (although it would be nice).

Hopefully the Knicks don't shy away from guards (if he's BPA) because of their current glut - Lee won't be here much longer, and Mudiay and Burke may not be long term pieces. Frank, SGA, Timmy and hopefully Dotson is a pretty good young group.