Just for purposes of discussion whether they had the #2 pick through trade (like how the Browns have #4 from Houston)
What would the Patriots do? The Steelers? Saints? Chargers?
Are they picking their next Qb at 2? Trading back? Barkley Nelson or Chubb?
The Saints are reportedly very high on Mayfield.
None do
None do
What does that matter? Clearly if a team was a the top, they had holes. Also, when has a team employed a strategy of draft every other position then get the qb? Generally, that's leads to 7-9/8-8 type season where you aren't in a position to draft a highly rated qb or you need to trade several valuable picks.
Just drafting at 2
Quote:
Comes close to having the same amount of position holes to fill as we do?
None do
What does that matter? Clearly if a team was a the top, they had holes. Also, when has a team employed a strategy of draft every other position then get the qb? Generally, that's leads to 7-9/8-8 type season where you aren't in a position to draft a highly rated qb or you need to trade several valuable picks.
Most of the guys we now call franchise QBs.
Quote:
or New GM, New Coaching Staff, installing new playbooks & drafting @ #2?
Just drafting at 2
I think most would lean QB
A team drafting at two isn't close to a Super Bowl. That's the reality every fan needs to face, we aren't a guard or a rb away. But, they can start a rebuild with a qb. This wasn't a 7-9 team that had some bad bounces, it was a team that legitimately looked awful most of the time.
Also, I'm a big Eli Manning fan- it's unfortunate how one has to caveat that every time he offers a critique- but when does Manning start to shoulder any of the blame for the past half decade? We've now been through multiple head coaches, multiple offesive coordinators, multiple oline combinations, and was given the best set of weapons he ever had last year. The offense was still putrid, even with a healthy roster, does anyone remember 0-5? Reality is, this team has been to the playoffs three times in the past decade. When do we start looking at the common denominators?
Slam. Dunk.
aging QB had a good OL and a good running game and good WRs and didn’t get it done, they’d probably look to replace him right away especially if they could
Quote:
that close to the Super bowl would they not take a Barkley Chubb or Nelson to go over the top?
A team drafting at two isn't close to a Super Bowl. That's the reality every fan needs to face, we aren't a guard or a rb away. But, they can start a rebuild with a qb. This wasn't a 7-9 team that had some bad bounces, it was a team that legitimately looked awful most of the time.
Also, I'm a big Eli Manning fan- it's unfortunate how one has to caveat that every time he offers a critique- but when does Manning start to shoulder any of the blame for the past half decade? We've now been through multiple head coaches, multiple offesive coordinators, multiple oline combinations, and was given the best set of weapons he ever had last year. The offense was still putrid, even with a healthy roster, does anyone remember 0-5? Reality is, this team has been to the playoffs three times in the past decade. When do we start looking at the common denominators?
Nicely done. You are not far from the Kingdom. When, precisely , is the question that never gets answered .
If they love 1, like another one a lot, they stand pat.
If none, they look at their board; if the next position guy is worth the 2 or they really need want a minor reach, they take him. If not they look for a trade partner.
All that just like us.
All depends on priorities of their FO if their QB is not there.
But sentimentality makes people do stupid shit.
But sentimentality makes people do stupid shit.
The only problem with that is what other team would want to give up assets for an old, expensive QB?
But sentimentality makes people do stupid shit.
+1
Quote:
Then draft a young inexpensive replacement.
But sentimentality makes people do stupid shit.
The only problem with that is what other team would want to give up assets for an old, expensive QB?
That's a fair question. I have to think there could be a buyer out there for a 5th round pick or something. Denver, Arizona, maybe Houston depending on how Watson's knee is coming along.
I'm sure I'll get a lengthy explanation of all the distinctions that exist between those situations and the Giants', but the bottom line is that the idea that picking high means you are necessarily out of contention for this season is not reality in the NFL.
Since he either said he won't waive it at all or unless its to X list of teams, our only other option is to keep him on the roster 1 more year - take a young QB to groom, and then cut after this season for far less dead money.
I'm sure I'll get a lengthy explanation of all the distinctions that exist between those situations and the Giants', but the bottom line is that the idea that picking high means you are necessarily out of contention for this season is not reality in the NFL.
Yeah this is the wrong board for posts like this. A huge chunk of BBI thinks we are 22 starters away from being a contender.
Since he either said he won't waive it at all or unless its to X list of teams, our only other option is to keep him on the roster 1 more year - take a young QB to groom, and then cut after this season for far less dead money.
I don't think the Giants have considered moving him, given Mara's public comments. My suspicion is Gettleman and Shurmur were hired on condition that Eli remain the quarterback.
Quote:
we can't without him waiving his NTC. So its easy to say we should just get rid of him but there's a few nuances at play.
Since he either said he won't waive it at all or unless its to X list of teams, our only other option is to keep him on the roster 1 more year - take a young QB to groom, and then cut after this season for far less dead money.
I don't think the Giants have considered moving him, given Mara's public comments. My suspicion is Gettleman and Shurmur were hired on condition that Eli remain the quarterback.
That’s a pretty big leap. The same Mara who was crushed for being ‘insensitive’ regarding the Eli “benching” and not being in the building? I don’t buy it.
Quote:
we can't without him waiving his NTC. So its easy to say we should just get rid of him but there's a few nuances at play.
Since he either said he won't waive it at all or unless its to X list of teams, our only other option is to keep him on the roster 1 more year - take a young QB to groom, and then cut after this season for far less dead money.
I don't think the Giants have considered moving him, given Mara's public comments. My suspicion is Gettleman and Shurmur were hired on condition that Eli remain the quarterback.
I generally agree. I think Mara has completely over-corrected based on the backlash from the benching. What he never seemed to get was that the backlash was not about the fact that the Giants benched Eli. It was about HOW the whole thing seemed to go down from the outside and the fact that they did it for Geno Smith (and seemed to have no concrete plan to get a look at Webb, who they actually needed to get a look at).
All that said, I don't think you have to be a delusional fanboy to think that the line between the talent on contending teams and teams picking early is generally pretty thin and that a change in coaching can have a tremendous impact.
New coaches, already upgraded OL, OBJ back on the field....would it really be THAT shocking to you if the Giants jumped right back into the playoff hunt?
It's a no brainer
It's a no brainer
Funny how both Chargers and Saints drafted relatively high last year and did not try to get a QB. Sure they would have needed to trade up but Philly did and they had same record as Saints and better record than Chargers. That was the year they should have. IMO 36 or 37 years old not much different.
Quote:
Comes close to having the same amount of position holes to fill as we do?
None do
What does that matter? Clearly if a team was a the top, they had holes. Also, when has a team employed a strategy of draft every other position then get the qb? Generally, that's leads to 7-9/8-8 type season where you aren't in a position to draft a highly rated qb or you need to trade several valuable picks.
LMAO, it has everything to do with how the OP made the comparisons. You can't just go by "Aging QB" as the qualifier. You have to look at their team as a whole. They have a luxury we don't have which enables them to take a swing and miss while we can't. In addition to that, it very easily comes down to what the Giants feel there is with Webb.
Quote:
If Ben Rivers or Brees Qb there team to 3 wins and atrocious Offense for 2 straight seasons and they're sitting at pick #2 with Qbs available like Allen Darnold or Rosen I'd be sure they take one especially considering the age and the length of careers these guys have had.. Nobody plays forever and you cant pass up a opportunity to get a top young Qb
It's a no brainer
Funny how both Chargers and Saints drafted relatively high last year and did not try to get a QB. Sure they would have needed to trade up but Philly did and they had same record as Saints and better record than Chargers. That was the year they should have. IMO 36 or 37 years old not much different.
Lets see what happens because both teams will need a Qb soon
Wentz is a special player, I think he's an all timer. Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see the eagles trophy case closer to the Giants by the time he is done. Especially given that we may be running out a flawe third round pick to compete. Disagree about Dak, he's a game manager who needs everything around him to be exactly perfect to play well. That's the fear of handing the reigns over to a medicore starting qb. My guess is Wentz be far more successful while not needing a top back or elite receivers than Dak will be with the likes of Zeke and Dez. Just a guess.
But sentimentality makes people do stupid shit.
Can they trade Eli? They’d probably have to cut him.
Great outlook. I would think there’s a return of the black plague in this lovely scenario of yours as well?
Quote:
In comment 13874516 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Then draft a young inexpensive replacement.
But sentimentality makes people do stupid shit.
The only problem with that is what other team would want to give up assets for an old, expensive QB?
That's a fair question. I have to think there could be a buyer out there for a 5th round pick or something. Denver, Arizona, maybe Houston depending on how Watson's knee is coming along.
The trade market for Eli is ...zero.
Not just because of his age and recent performance. He also has a no-trade clause and is due to make almost $20M this year. Those are two huge, unmovable obstacles. He's not going to accept a trade to another team and take a restructured paycut just ...compete for maybe 1 season as starter?
The first two teams you listed went out and signed "bridge" QBs. Keenum 2yrs $36M; Bradford 2 yrs, up to $40M. And both those teams intend to draft QB in the 1st anyway.
There's no trade market for him.
There is, however, some modest cap relief in releasing him outright but taking on $17M in dead cap in '18. The ideal time to do that would be 2019, when his dead cap shrinks to only $6.2M
It makes sense for player and team to play out 2018 together and (probably) part ways in 2019.
dont get me wrong they COULD get 80-90% of barkley in round 2 with guice or michel or maybe even nick chubb i just think barkley is more nfl ready especially on a blocking standpoint than any of the others and will be ready to make a difference sooner fournette struggled and he was a 4th overall pick as did zeke early and they had the OL already in place barkley is already a more accomplished blocker coming out than either of those guys were
shurmur will use the RB as a reciever far more than macadoo did,and will employ more screens and playaction plays but that only works if the opposing defences respect the threat of the run enough and clearly neither perkins,gallman or stewart are going to do that they will all have roles and make someplays but they are not a feature 3 down RB with the speed to break a run or short pass for a big play or score
once you add that threat it will great more favourable matchups in the passing game to relieve the pressure on OBJ and EE and not allow opposing DE's to simply pin their ears back and go after eli anymore plus if the OL upgrades have worked he should get more time to make throws which wouldnt be that hard to do considering how bad the OL and playcalling was last year
if barkley is gone at 2 because cleveland has taken him you know the offers for a trade up will be too good to pass up because there are teams out there so desperate for a QB they will take the risk on each QB's flaws chances are 1 of them will be good maybe even 2 of them but 2 of them are total busts provided they dont fall too far back they can still come out with 1 of chubb,maybe barkley,fitzpatrick,nelson,edwards plus extra picks they can use to fix more holes
the new staff havent had time to evaluate webb properly yet he may be the guy,they believe manning can play for a couple of years more and if not they go through another crap season and look for a QB then when they will be picking high again or could trade up as philly did they dont need to roll the dice now if rosen was clean medically i would pick him and hes the only 1 of the 4 i rate,but that medical history is too high a risk
shurmur got to the championship game last year with case keenum so what would he could do with eli and/or webb??
There was considerable chatter that that wasn't a football decision.
BB offered jimmyg a high enough contract that it was clear he was ready to switch to him and maybe even trade brady everyone thinks brady is why NE has won so much but its actually BB he went 3-1 without brady early last year went 11-5 with matt cassell when brady went down with an ACL. brady was happy jimmyg left inspite of his statements to the contary
if you believe the rumours BB turned down the 12th overall pick,a high second and a first this year from cleveland for jimmyg during the draft then takes a second round pick alone from the 49ers as the trade window closes a few weeks later?
that was kraft's doing not BB despite the denials things are fractured in foxboro could be why mcdaniels did the u-turn on leaving because kraft was affraid BB might walk this offseason leaving him with no head coach,DC or OC and nobody inhouse to promote if he did walk away and bribed him to do it
You were also convinvced Reese and McAdoo were staying. You and the boss should hang out. You both do nothing but predict doom and gloom at every single turn.
Giants have done a lot of things right over the last 30 years. They have had bad stretches before. History tells us they will get things figured out before too long. I know that spits in the face of the so called realistic take on this thread but i'm just going on history. Odds are the Giants won't be too soft on the QB position here.
Quote:
sentimental to their qb..eli. Not looking at it business wise and long-term, which would be very detrimental to the future of this team at qb positon. Especially would say so if they pass up a qb at #2.
You were also convinvced Reese and McAdoo were staying. You and the boss should hang out. You both do nothing but predict doom and gloom at every single turn.
Giants have done a lot of things right over the last 30 years. They have had bad stretches before. History tells us they will get things figured out before too long. I know that spits in the face of the so called realistic take on this thread but i'm just going on history. Odds are the Giants won't be too soft on the QB position here.
first, if you believed that tongue in cheek mantra play of some posts I've read on here, I then did make it believable..well done hook line and sinker on my part.
second..doom and gloom on my part? yeah ok..whatever the narrative.
this subject now..no tongue in cheek or whatever on my part..nor playing around. I'm on the side of now drafting for the future at the qb position. I do not, I'm sure everyone here sensible, doesn't neither, to have them have to endure a revolving door of so called journeymen qbs in years to come. they are in the spot here, and I'm sure despite what's being said about this class of qbs, that ARE 1 or 2 franchise qbs here.
I, nor you, would want to have to endure a season like last again in order to get this high draft spot in order to have to "likely" get a qb. what ever the giants thinking is now you'd have to trust, but, as an outsider I'm hoping it's business decisions rather than cloud with sentimentality.jmo...ok?
The Saints are reportedly very high on Mayfield.
In other words, those teams are forward thinking and smart.
Remember this, too. Pittsburgh regretted for the longest time not drafting Marino when it was clear Bradshaw had seen his better days. I feel very confident they would draft a QB at #2...