I'm no big college football fan but it seems the common theme about this guy is "he won't last long because his bell has been rung once too many times." From what I'm starting to gather, he'd be a top flight absolute #1 pick if not for that.
That seems to be the biggest concern with regard to Rosen Â
Also does not have the escapability to extend plays that you would ideally want.
I think this is the bigger thing to most teams/scouts than the injuries. I can't say I've researched these QBs a ton but aren't Allen and Darnold considered to be better athletically than Rosen?
The injury concerns, the whispers of teammates not liking him, the random political stuff just sort of piles on to that.
Is crap. His athletic ability at the combine was better than Darnold's who is lauded for his escapability. I think Rosen has a style of play where he stays in the pocket. He needs to learn to improvise a bit. Irs not like he physically can't do that.
Rosen’s play on the field is so much better than the other QBs that the only way that you can degrade him is by attaching his character, his health and his desire
That says to me that he's plenty agile. The issue from that perspective is really more that he's not an improviser/creator on the move in the way Darnold/Allen are.
just watched 30 minutes of Rosen and Darnold highlights. Rosen looks much better. no need to discuss this any further. thats how Gettleman does it right?
But his won/loss record is a concern and his rumors about lack of love for the game and leadership concerns all add up.
The fact that he might have reached his potential has not escape me either
His win/loss record left a bit to be desired, but his play on the didn’t. The last two years against Texas A&M, a quality SEC team, UCLA would have been blown out of the water in each game, but he managed to keep his team in each game, and even win one of them.
I’m a fan of Sam Darnold, but I can’t help but think if Rosen were on USC, they would have had more success in their Rose Bowl game against Ohio State.
Isn't the fact that he is basically a statue back there in the pocket a concern also?
Look around the NFL- QB's need to be at worst elusive (like a younger Eli or Matt Ryan) or at best a threat to run (Rodgers, Wilson) to be successful in today's NFL.
I can tell you the exact spot where Rosen will be 3 seconds after the ball is snapped. If you are a DE you pin your ears back and if you get to that spot then it's a sack.
You combine an immobile QB with an injury history and you start to question using the #2 pick on that player. At 10? He is a great pick. Even at 6-8 I can see the appeal.
Also, there is the narrative that he is a bit of a party guy too that hasn't been mentioned. I remember reading that he had a hot tub in his dorm room, which to me is an absolutely non-issue (big whoop-big time QB likes to have fun) but to some that is a turn off. I've never heard of him being in trouble with the law.
AND then throw in the fact that he isn't shy about his opinions on social issues (paying college players, anti-POTUS). Again- whether that is a big deal is a personal opinion but it's out there.
I've said it before and I'll say it again here. Rosen can be a great QB in the NFL, but he will be devoured in NY, so I hope for the kids sake that he winds up out of Giants blue or Jets green. In a place like Cleveland he could be an absolute stud.
RE: RE: RE: My biggest concern is his durability Â
The fact that he might have reached his potential has not escape me either
It's also a fact that Barkley might be hit by a car and never play another game of football.
How is it a fact when you said the word “might”?
Exactly! That was my point re: George in PA's post.
p.s.--What does it say about Rosen's talent and work ethic that he is so far advanced at the age of 21 that some think he may have already maxed out? Which, of course, is completely untrue but speaks to how high is ceiling actually is.
Rosen is athletic and mobile. He just knows that to stay in the pocket is the way to win. He is the best passer in the draft, the most anticipatory, the smartest. Eli is the statue; he won two super bowls in statuesque form. Rosen has the talent to do the same, despite the fact that he is far more mobile than Eli has ever been.
My concern with Darnold is that he has a long motion Â
Isn't the fact that he is basically a statue back there in the pocket a concern also?
Look around the NFL- QB's need to be at worst elusive (like a younger Eli or Matt Ryan) or at best a threat to run (Rodgers, Wilson) to be successful in today's NFL.
I can tell you the exact spot where Rosen will be 3 seconds after the ball is snapped. If you are a DE you pin your ears back and if you get to that spot then it's a sack.
You combine an immobile QB with an injury history and you start to question using the #2 pick on that player. At 10? He is a great pick. Even at 6-8 I can see the appeal.
Also, there is the narrative that he is a bit of a party guy too that hasn't been mentioned. I remember reading that he had a hot tub in his dorm room, which to me is an absolutely non-issue (big whoop-big time QB likes to have fun) but to some that is a turn off. I've never heard of him being in trouble with the law.
AND then throw in the fact that he isn't shy about his opinions on social issues (paying college players, anti-POTUS). Again- whether that is a big deal is a personal opinion but it's out there.
I've said it before and I'll say it again here. Rosen can be a great QB in the NFL, but he will be devoured in NY, so I hope for the kids sake that he winds up out of Giants blue or Jets green. In a place like Cleveland he could be an absolute stud.
Go watch Eli's Ole Miss highlights and then Rosen's and tell me again that Rosen is the statue. Rosen is no Mike Vick, but he's a lot closer to a guy like Kirk Cousins than he is Eli Manning. Go to 1:55 and 3:37 and show me a single play in Eli's college or pro career where he is moving anywhere close to the way Rosen does on these plays. Statue? - ( New Window )
answer to your question is yes. Rosen is the best player in the draft based on pure ability and positional value. He isn't a threat to run, but has good pocket presence and nimble feet. His injuries are concerning, especially his history with concussions. His frame reminds me of Tony Eason.
Isn't the fact that he is basically a statue back there in the pocket a concern also?
Look around the NFL- QB's need to be at worst elusive (like a younger Eli or Matt Ryan) or at best a threat to run (Rodgers, Wilson) to be successful in today's NFL.
I can tell you the exact spot where Rosen will be 3 seconds after the ball is snapped. If you are a DE you pin your ears back and if you get to that spot then it's a sack.
You combine an immobile QB with an injury history and you start to question using the #2 pick on that player. At 10? He is a great pick. Even at 6-8 I can see the appeal.
Also, there is the narrative that he is a bit of a party guy too that hasn't been mentioned. I remember reading that he had a hot tub in his dorm room, which to me is an absolutely non-issue (big whoop-big time QB likes to have fun) but to some that is a turn off. I've never heard of him being in trouble with the law.
AND then throw in the fact that he isn't shy about his opinions on social issues (paying college players, anti-POTUS). Again- whether that is a big deal is a personal opinion but it's out there.
I've said it before and I'll say it again here. Rosen can be a great QB in the NFL, but he will be devoured in NY, so I hope for the kids sake that he winds up out of Giants blue or Jets green. In a place like Cleveland he could be an absolute stud.
Go watch Eli's Ole Miss highlights and then Rosen's and tell me again that Rosen is the statue. Rosen is no Mike Vick, but he's a lot closer to a guy like Kirk Cousins than he is Eli Manning. Go to 1:55 and 3:37 and show me a single play in Eli's college or pro career where he is moving anywhere close to the way Rosen does on these plays. Statue? - ( New Window )
Wrong.
Eli pre-shellshock was one of the best all time at sliding around the pocket to avoid pressure and also maybe the best QB ever at avoiding big hits.
Rosen gets smacked in the mouth from the 3 or 5 step drop spot a lot, and while it's an honorable trait to hang in the pocket and take the shot, a QB needs to know how to avoid those shots to avoid injury, bringing this conversation back full circle.
Isn't the fact that he is basically a statue back there in the pocket a concern also?
Look around the NFL- QB's need to be at worst elusive (like a younger Eli or Matt Ryan) or at best a threat to run (Rodgers, Wilson) to be successful in today's NFL.
I can tell you the exact spot where Rosen will be 3 seconds after the ball is snapped. If you are a DE you pin your ears back and if you get to that spot then it's a sack.
You combine an immobile QB with an injury history and you start to question using the #2 pick on that player. At 10? He is a great pick. Even at 6-8 I can see the appeal.
Also, there is the narrative that he is a bit of a party guy too that hasn't been mentioned. I remember reading that he had a hot tub in his dorm room, which to me is an absolutely non-issue (big whoop-big time QB likes to have fun) but to some that is a turn off. I've never heard of him being in trouble with the law.
AND then throw in the fact that he isn't shy about his opinions on social issues (paying college players, anti-POTUS). Again- whether that is a big deal is a personal opinion but it's out there.
I've said it before and I'll say it again here. Rosen can be a great QB in the NFL, but he will be devoured in NY, so I hope for the kids sake that he winds up out of Giants blue or Jets green. In a place like Cleveland he could be an absolute stud.
Go watch Eli's Ole Miss highlights and then Rosen's and tell me again that Rosen is the statue. Rosen is no Mike Vick, but he's a lot closer to a guy like Kirk Cousins than he is Eli Manning. Go to 1:55 and 3:37 and show me a single play in Eli's college or pro career where he is moving anywhere close to the way Rosen does on these plays. Statue? - ( New Window )
Wrong.
Eli pre-shellshock was one of the best all time at sliding around the pocket to avoid pressure and also maybe the best QB ever at avoiding big hits.
Rosen gets smacked in the mouth from the 3 or 5 step drop spot a lot, and while it's an honorable trait to hang in the pocket and take the shot, a QB needs to know how to avoid those shots to avoid injury, bringing this conversation back full circle.
What?????
This has got to be the strangest take Ive ever read on Eli
I mean talent-wise, either in absolute terms or even relative to his peers, he's not close to Barkley...*however* I could be swayed that, given a ginormous QB handicap, he would be a better value pick than Barkley and take him. But for the fact that I have to add in a huge health risk. And not that sit for a year and get healthy risk, but the Tarpley-Borland-Urschel risk. People may scoff, but I think that it is quite real. Face it, we live in completely different football times than even a few years ago. Heck, I would guess that most of us would discourage our own kids from even starting out playing football while growing up.
RE: That, and his very slight frame, are my biggest concerns Â
I agree on the concussions, but the slight frame thing, to me, is overrated. He may not be as wide as Darnold, but he's also heavier and taller. He looked pretty solid in his Combine garb. Hard to say somebody is slightly built when Eli has been your QB for 14 years. Rosen looks a lot more solid than Eli. To my eye, without standing together, he reminds me of Aaron Rodgers in build.
I would take him at 2, he is the best fit for the Giants. We currently have two hybrid pieces in Engram and OBJ (not a prototypical #1 WR) and it would make sense to take a high football IQ QB to build a NE/Manning type offense that takes advantages of mismatches and reads.
Then again we haven't always been known to do what makes the most sense.
I would take him at 2, he is the best fit for the Giants. We currently have two hybrid pieces in Engram and OBJ (not a prototypical #1 WR) and it would make sense to take a high football IQ QB to build a NE/Manning type offense that takes advantages of mismatches and reads.
Then again we haven't always been known to do what makes the most sense.
If those concerns jeopardize his ability to stick, then you build nothing. You always have to weigh risks.
Maybe its unfair, but there seems to be a big value Â
placed on mobility and that is not a strength of Rosen. I think that and health are the two factors in him not being a clear #1.
I suggest it may be unfair because while Roethlisberger, Wilson, Wentz, etc are very successful and mobile - it doesn't seem to hinder Brady, Brees, Ryan, Stafford, Rivers, etc.
Injury concerns seem pretty valid though (especially for media and fans as we don't have access to enough info).
that makes him difficult to pick just that concussion or shoulder injury you could look past that as a one off but put them together in a fairly short college career then you have to really think about it especially against the front 7's in the NFCE we have been spoiled with manning who has played thru a seperated shoulder and wrist and ankle sprains that would have sidelined lesser guys to some extent we want the next manning who is strong enough to take the punishment and rosen doesnt look like that guy
there is also talk of his toxic locker room presence at college level you bring a hint of that to an NFL locker room you will have major problems particularly in new york where that will be siezed on by the media look at the scrutany that OBJ is under at QB that will be magnified 3 fold,now this may be pre-draft rumour but its further pause for thought.
if he was clean he would be number 1 on the giants draft board but with the injury history that probably drops him below barkley,chubb or add you choice here if he had barkleys history/off field stats he would be the sure fire number 1 pick but he isnt.
it wasnt just the fact he got a concussion it was the recovery time that is the bigger red flag and makes you wonder if it was a sign of more concussions being missed and a potential short career as a result they already blew high picks on ross,prince and david wilson who never lived upto their hype they cant afford anymore and DG knows it
Only thing keeping him from #1 is Allen’s big arm and upside. Allen could be viewed as the best NFL prospect and go #1. That shouldn’t be a suprise If he does go 1.
However, with the Browns picking I’d bet on them passing on the clear cut top 2 guys and picking Darnold. Darnold going 1 would also be the best situation for Giants.
his biggest knock is injury concern, devotion to the game, and Â
Take away the concussions and he's the consensus top QB in this class. Or at least he should be.
I know this is a game that some don’t like to play but if Rosen went to, say, Alabama his numbers would be tremendous.
He’s been burdened by having to carry a UCLA team with a huge talent gap on defense....
I think this is the bigger thing to most teams/scouts than the injuries. I can't say I've researched these QBs a ton but aren't Allen and Darnold considered to be better athletically than Rosen?
The injury concerns, the whispers of teammates not liking him, the random political stuff just sort of piles on to that.
I do not know where the idea that he is an immobile QB has come from
Also while he has been injured , why is it that no one mentions that Allen had his clavicle fractured in Seven places
The fact that he might have reached his potential has not escape me either
This appears to be part of his DNA
This concerns me
The fact that he might have reached his potential has not escape me either
Quote:
The fact that he might have reached his potential has not escape me either
It's also a fact that Barkley might be hit by a car and never play another game of football.
How is it a fact when you said the word “might”?
Quote:
The fact that he might have reached his potential has not escape me either
It's also a fact that Barkley might be hit by a car and never play another game of football.
anyone could be hit by a car. football player or not.
The fact that he might have reached his potential has not escape me either
His win/loss record left a bit to be desired, but his play on the didn’t. The last two years against Texas A&M, a quality SEC team, UCLA would have been blown out of the water in each game, but he managed to keep his team in each game, and even win one of them.
I’m a fan of Sam Darnold, but I can’t help but think if Rosen were on USC, they would have had more success in their Rose Bowl game against Ohio State.
Look around the NFL- QB's need to be at worst elusive (like a younger Eli or Matt Ryan) or at best a threat to run (Rodgers, Wilson) to be successful in today's NFL.
I can tell you the exact spot where Rosen will be 3 seconds after the ball is snapped. If you are a DE you pin your ears back and if you get to that spot then it's a sack.
You combine an immobile QB with an injury history and you start to question using the #2 pick on that player. At 10? He is a great pick. Even at 6-8 I can see the appeal.
Also, there is the narrative that he is a bit of a party guy too that hasn't been mentioned. I remember reading that he had a hot tub in his dorm room, which to me is an absolutely non-issue (big whoop-big time QB likes to have fun) but to some that is a turn off. I've never heard of him being in trouble with the law.
AND then throw in the fact that he isn't shy about his opinions on social issues (paying college players, anti-POTUS). Again- whether that is a big deal is a personal opinion but it's out there.
I've said it before and I'll say it again here. Rosen can be a great QB in the NFL, but he will be devoured in NY, so I hope for the kids sake that he winds up out of Giants blue or Jets green. In a place like Cleveland he could be an absolute stud.
Quote:
In comment 13874987 George from PA said:
Quote:
The fact that he might have reached his potential has not escape me either
It's also a fact that Barkley might be hit by a car and never play another game of football.
How is it a fact when you said the word “might”?
p.s.--What does it say about Rosen's talent and work ethic that he is so far advanced at the age of 21 that some think he may have already maxed out? Which, of course, is completely untrue but speaks to how high is ceiling actually is.
Look around the NFL- QB's need to be at worst elusive (like a younger Eli or Matt Ryan) or at best a threat to run (Rodgers, Wilson) to be successful in today's NFL.
I can tell you the exact spot where Rosen will be 3 seconds after the ball is snapped. If you are a DE you pin your ears back and if you get to that spot then it's a sack.
You combine an immobile QB with an injury history and you start to question using the #2 pick on that player. At 10? He is a great pick. Even at 6-8 I can see the appeal.
Also, there is the narrative that he is a bit of a party guy too that hasn't been mentioned. I remember reading that he had a hot tub in his dorm room, which to me is an absolutely non-issue (big whoop-big time QB likes to have fun) but to some that is a turn off. I've never heard of him being in trouble with the law.
AND then throw in the fact that he isn't shy about his opinions on social issues (paying college players, anti-POTUS). Again- whether that is a big deal is a personal opinion but it's out there.
I've said it before and I'll say it again here. Rosen can be a great QB in the NFL, but he will be devoured in NY, so I hope for the kids sake that he winds up out of Giants blue or Jets green. In a place like Cleveland he could be an absolute stud.
Go watch Eli's Ole Miss highlights and then Rosen's and tell me again that Rosen is the statue. Rosen is no Mike Vick, but he's a lot closer to a guy like Kirk Cousins than he is Eli Manning. Go to 1:55 and 3:37 and show me a single play in Eli's college or pro career where he is moving anywhere close to the way Rosen does on these plays.
Statue? - ( New Window )
Quote:
Isn't the fact that he is basically a statue back there in the pocket a concern also?
Look around the NFL- QB's need to be at worst elusive (like a younger Eli or Matt Ryan) or at best a threat to run (Rodgers, Wilson) to be successful in today's NFL.
I can tell you the exact spot where Rosen will be 3 seconds after the ball is snapped. If you are a DE you pin your ears back and if you get to that spot then it's a sack.
You combine an immobile QB with an injury history and you start to question using the #2 pick on that player. At 10? He is a great pick. Even at 6-8 I can see the appeal.
Also, there is the narrative that he is a bit of a party guy too that hasn't been mentioned. I remember reading that he had a hot tub in his dorm room, which to me is an absolutely non-issue (big whoop-big time QB likes to have fun) but to some that is a turn off. I've never heard of him being in trouble with the law.
AND then throw in the fact that he isn't shy about his opinions on social issues (paying college players, anti-POTUS). Again- whether that is a big deal is a personal opinion but it's out there.
I've said it before and I'll say it again here. Rosen can be a great QB in the NFL, but he will be devoured in NY, so I hope for the kids sake that he winds up out of Giants blue or Jets green. In a place like Cleveland he could be an absolute stud.
Go watch Eli's Ole Miss highlights and then Rosen's and tell me again that Rosen is the statue. Rosen is no Mike Vick, but he's a lot closer to a guy like Kirk Cousins than he is Eli Manning. Go to 1:55 and 3:37 and show me a single play in Eli's college or pro career where he is moving anywhere close to the way Rosen does on these plays. Statue? - ( New Window )
Wrong.
Eli pre-shellshock was one of the best all time at sliding around the pocket to avoid pressure and also maybe the best QB ever at avoiding big hits.
Rosen gets smacked in the mouth from the 3 or 5 step drop spot a lot, and while it's an honorable trait to hang in the pocket and take the shot, a QB needs to know how to avoid those shots to avoid injury, bringing this conversation back full circle.
Quote:
In comment 13875013 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
Isn't the fact that he is basically a statue back there in the pocket a concern also?
Look around the NFL- QB's need to be at worst elusive (like a younger Eli or Matt Ryan) or at best a threat to run (Rodgers, Wilson) to be successful in today's NFL.
I can tell you the exact spot where Rosen will be 3 seconds after the ball is snapped. If you are a DE you pin your ears back and if you get to that spot then it's a sack.
You combine an immobile QB with an injury history and you start to question using the #2 pick on that player. At 10? He is a great pick. Even at 6-8 I can see the appeal.
Also, there is the narrative that he is a bit of a party guy too that hasn't been mentioned. I remember reading that he had a hot tub in his dorm room, which to me is an absolutely non-issue (big whoop-big time QB likes to have fun) but to some that is a turn off. I've never heard of him being in trouble with the law.
AND then throw in the fact that he isn't shy about his opinions on social issues (paying college players, anti-POTUS). Again- whether that is a big deal is a personal opinion but it's out there.
I've said it before and I'll say it again here. Rosen can be a great QB in the NFL, but he will be devoured in NY, so I hope for the kids sake that he winds up out of Giants blue or Jets green. In a place like Cleveland he could be an absolute stud.
Go watch Eli's Ole Miss highlights and then Rosen's and tell me again that Rosen is the statue. Rosen is no Mike Vick, but he's a lot closer to a guy like Kirk Cousins than he is Eli Manning. Go to 1:55 and 3:37 and show me a single play in Eli's college or pro career where he is moving anywhere close to the way Rosen does on these plays. Statue? - ( New Window )
Wrong.
Eli pre-shellshock was one of the best all time at sliding around the pocket to avoid pressure and also maybe the best QB ever at avoiding big hits.
Rosen gets smacked in the mouth from the 3 or 5 step drop spot a lot, and while it's an honorable trait to hang in the pocket and take the shot, a QB needs to know how to avoid those shots to avoid injury, bringing this conversation back full circle.
What?????
This has got to be the strangest take Ive ever read on Eli
I agree on the concussions, but the slight frame thing, to me, is overrated. He may not be as wide as Darnold, but he's also heavier and taller. He looked pretty solid in his Combine garb. Hard to say somebody is slightly built when Eli has been your QB for 14 years. Rosen looks a lot more solid than Eli. To my eye, without standing together, he reminds me of Aaron Rodgers in build.
Then again we haven't always been known to do what makes the most sense.
Eli gets plastered and has been since the 49ers NFCC game. He is tough as nails, but he is thin as a rail.
Then again we haven't always been known to do what makes the most sense.
I suggest it may be unfair because while Roethlisberger, Wilson, Wentz, etc are very successful and mobile - it doesn't seem to hinder Brady, Brees, Ryan, Stafford, Rivers, etc.
Injury concerns seem pretty valid though (especially for media and fans as we don't have access to enough info).
there is also talk of his toxic locker room presence at college level you bring a hint of that to an NFL locker room you will have major problems particularly in new york where that will be siezed on by the media look at the scrutany that OBJ is under at QB that will be magnified 3 fold,now this may be pre-draft rumour but its further pause for thought.
if he was clean he would be number 1 on the giants draft board but with the injury history that probably drops him below barkley,chubb or add you choice here if he had barkleys history/off field stats he would be the sure fire number 1 pick but he isnt.
it wasnt just the fact he got a concussion it was the recovery time that is the bigger red flag and makes you wonder if it was a sign of more concussions being missed and a potential short career as a result they already blew high picks on ross,prince and david wilson who never lived upto their hype they cant afford anymore and DG knows it
However, with the Browns picking I’d bet on them passing on the clear cut top 2 guys and picking Darnold. Darnold going 1 would also be the best situation for Giants.
character concerns? Health, yes. Seems his locker room backed him up.