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NYG are fools if they said no to Jets to go G or RB

Giantfan in skinland : 3/19/2018 10:00 pm
The more I think about it, the more I think we have to be going QB. Or at least I really hope so. Because if we stayed put at 2 to take an RB or Guard and passed up the opportunity to slide down just 4 spots while also picking up multiple #2s (and, btw, potentially still getting the Guard), that just seems crazy to me. I really like both Barkley and Nelson, but that trade would have afforded them the opportunity to do a lot of work at RB and interior OL + more. The only thing that makes sense in my mind is that they like 2 Qbs better than the others and don't want to move out of range. Either that, or they think they can get more from another team on or closer to draft day. While I like both players (full disclosure - my preference is Rosen or Darnold) passing up the package the Colts took in order to take Nelson or Barkley seems like an awful choice to me.
Agree 100%  
Justlurking : 3/19/2018 10:05 pm : link
They need to pick a QB or trade down for a haul. Assuming they turned Jets down, i think it signals they’re taking a QB if they stay put.
I agree in part  
ThatLimerickGuy : 3/19/2018 10:07 pm : link
But that conversation needs to start with 2 first rounders. If it's the #4 pick and a 2020 1st and 2 or 3 second round picks then so be it.
If they stay at 2 it is either a QB or Barkley  
Rjanyg : 3/19/2018 10:14 pm : link
If they trade out it will be no lower than pick 5 with Denver. It will take Denvers 1st, 2nd rounders in 2018 and a 2019 1st to move up.

If we trade backward Cleveland, it will take at least picks 4,33,35 and their 4th rounder, possibly their 2019 1st as well.

At least that is where talks start.
The Jets  
UESBLUE : 3/19/2018 10:15 pm : link
are going QB. And thats why the Giants are. Barkley is going #1 to Cleve. The Giants would never let the Jets draft the next NY superstar while they took some lineman. Theyd be haunted for a decade in the media. And itd cost this new regime their jobs. The safe play is Rosen or Darnold. And thats what will happen.
why  
louied7535 : 3/19/2018 10:18 pm : link
do so many people think the qb's are the safest pick? a lot of you talk like these qbs are a lock or something, do they have potential yes but why so down on other positions. if a player is good they are good.
RE: The Jets  
Giantfan in skinland : 3/19/2018 10:19 pm : link
In comment 13875022 UESBLUE said:
Quote:
are going QB. And thats why the Giants are. Barkley is going #1 to Cleve. The Giants would never let the Jets draft the next NY superstar while they took some lineman. Theyd be haunted for a decade in the media. And itd cost this new regime their jobs. The safe play is Rosen or Darnold. And thats what will happen.


Agreed, except no reason for Cleveland to take Barkley at #1. They take their choice of QB at #1, and then the Giants and Jets follow suit. Cleveland takes Barkley or their choice of the defensive guys at 4.
RE: The Jets  
GFAN52 : 3/19/2018 10:27 pm : link
In comment 13875022 UESBLUE said:
Quote:
are going QB. And thats why the Giants are. Barkley is going #1 to Cleve. The Giants would never let the Jets draft the next NY superstar while they took some lineman. Theyd be haunted for a decade in the media. And itd cost this new regime their jobs. The safe play is Rosen or Darnold. And thats what will happen.


Safe play for the Browns is Darnold which is what I believe they will do.
RE: why  
Giantfan in skinland : 3/19/2018 10:27 pm : link
In comment 13875025 louied7535 said:
Quote:
do so many people think the qb's are the safest pick? a lot of you talk like these qbs are a lock or something, do they have potential yes but why so down on other positions. if a player is good they are good.


This has nothing to do with who is a lock or who isn't. This has to do with the decision not to trade out of the spot in order to take a specific guy. It doesn't make sense to me to do that for an RB or interior OL in a draft where it looks like there will be VERY GOOD guys at both spots early in the 2nd when they could have stockpiled picks. It only makes sense to me if they have a conviction that there is a clear separation between the top QBs and everyone else because there will very clearly be a run at that spot early.
Fools?  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/19/2018 10:32 pm : link
If they want to be in prime position to get the player they feel is the best player?

How so -- if you skip down 4 spots - how can you be sure you are going to get the player you want?
RE: The Jets  
Boy Cord : 3/19/2018 10:35 pm : link
In comment 13875022 UESBLUE said:
Quote:
are going QB. And thats why the Giants are. Barkley is going #1 to Cleve. The Giants would never let the Jets draft the next NY superstar while they took some lineman. Theyd be haunted for a decade in the media. And itd cost this new regime their jobs. The safe play is Rosen or Darnold. And thats what will happen.


The Browns control this draft. They need to draft a franchise QB. They will not sit back and wait for a QB to fall to them at #4. That would be moronic based on the past 25 years, particularly the last two where they passed on Wentz and Watson and went 1-31.

If they feel the top non-QB will be in the conversation as a HoFer and heads above their second-rated non-QB, they need to call the Giants and ensure their picks.

There is no LT in this draft and odds are QBs will go 1-2-3. If the Giants trade out, QBs will certainly go 1-2-3. Browns get their man at #1 and #4.

In short, no way Browns go non-QB at #1.
Good  
AcidTest : 3/19/2018 10:38 pm : link
analysis, but you are underestimating the fact that they may be in love with Barkley or Chubb, and don't want to risk losing the one they want by trading down to six. Not even for three #2s. Barkley would energize the offense. Chubb is the best DE in the draft by far, and this could be the last year for JPP. Another possibility is that they want to wait until the draft starts to make any trades. Panic will set in as teams desperately try to trade with the Giants to get ahead of the Jets.
Its a good point ...  
Bluesbreaker : 3/19/2018 10:48 pm : link
If the Giants trade out of #2 it will because they will get
a deal they can't refuse . Who knows if they even contacted the Giants o you think the Jets want Mayfield ?
RE: Good  
One Man Thrill Ride : 3/19/2018 11:05 pm : link
In comment 13875048 AcidTest said:
Quote:
analysis, but you are underestimating the fact that they may be in love with Barkley or Chubb, and don't want to risk losing the one they want by trading down to six. Not even for three #2s. Barkley would energize the offense. Chubb is the best DE in the draft by far, and this could be the last year for JPP. Another possibility is that they want to wait until the draft starts to make any trades. Panic will set in as teams desperately try to trade with the Giants to get ahead of the Jets.


If The Org viewed any one non-QB that dogmatically, they deserve years of irrelevance.

Barkley > Nelson + three #2's ?

Preposterous resource management. And there'd be a chance they could Barkley at 5 anyway.

Never ever fall in love with one player unless it's a transofrmative QB talent.
Impossible to know what the Jets  
greatgrandpa : 3/19/2018 11:06 pm : link
Will do but my guess is both the jets and Elway want mayfield as their franchise. Right now the Jets have him. The browns could take Allen over the California QBs which would leave The Giants with an admittedly tough choice - Rosen or what should be the biggest haul of draft picks in NFL history. If Denver doesn’t want the trade the giants will likely pick Rosen and the Jets get their QB Of course if DG is a poker player he could hold the Denver trade in front of the Jets and pick Mayfield and trade him to the Jets for three firsts and a couple seconds and a couple fourths over the next three years and still pick Rosen with the Jets pick. Broncos pick Darnold. Everybody wins The draft is so much fun isn’t it?
RE: Fools?  
Giantfan in skinland : 3/19/2018 11:09 pm : link
In comment 13875039 gidiefor said:
Quote:
If they want to be in prime position to get the player they feel is the best player?

How so -- if you skip down 4 spots - how can you be sure you are going to get the player you want?


Yes. Fools.

If they trade with the Jets, the top 5 looks like Browns (QB), Jets (QB), Colts (Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, Fitzpatrick) or trade out (QB), Browns (Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, or Fitzparick), Broncos (QB). In all likelihood, that means at least 3 QBs are going in the top 5, maybe even four. That means it would be EXTREMELY surprising if NYG couldn't still get one of Barkley, Nelson, or Chubb (or Fitzpatrick) at 6, or maybe/likely even a choice of a few of them.

I don't believe that any of Barkley, Chubb, or Nelson are so much better than the combination of the 6th pick plus 2 additional picks in the 2nd round (where guys like Price/ Hernandez and a host of RBs could be had to supplement whoever they took at 6) that they justify staying put to take the best player.
RE: RE: Fools?  
One Man Thrill Ride : 3/19/2018 11:17 pm : link
In comment 13875068 Giantfan in skinland said:
Quote:
In comment 13875039 gidiefor said:


Quote:


If they want to be in prime position to get the player they feel is the best player?

How so -- if you skip down 4 spots - how can you be sure you are going to get the player you want?



Yes. Fools.

If they trade with the Jets, the top 5 looks like Browns (QB), Jets (QB), Colts (Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, Fitzpatrick) or trade out (QB), Browns (Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, or Fitzparick), Broncos (QB). In all likelihood, that means at least 3 QBs are going in the top 5, maybe even four. That means it would be EXTREMELY surprising if NYG couldn't still get one of Barkley, Nelson, or Chubb (or Fitzpatrick) at 6, or maybe/likely even a choice of a few of them.

I don't believe that any of Barkley, Chubb, or Nelson are so much better than the combination of the 6th pick plus 2 additional picks in the 2nd round (where guys like Price/ Hernandez and a host of RBs could be had to supplement whoever they took at 6) that they justify staying put to take the best player.


Barkley is not individually better than four (4) top-50 players, including one in the top-5. Unless it's a QB, nobody could be.

Giants would be foolish to turn down such an offer, if it ever materializes.

Only thing more valuable than that war chest of picks would be a building block QB.
These are grades from nfl.com combine  
DonnieD89 : 3/19/2018 11:26 pm : link
I know that these are what NFL.com placed based on their opinion, but you have to ask yourself why these players are graded this way overall. Why is Sam Darnold graded close to 1 point higher than Josh Rosen? Then look at Barkley’s, Chubb’s, and Nelson’s grade. Is Rosen’s grade high enough to supersede Barkley, Chubb, and Nelson to be chosen at #2 because he is a QB? The other question is what do the Giants have for grades on these players? If it’s graded anything like this, then maybe these non QBs are deserving at #2.
Link - ( New Window )
There is a slight chance...  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/19/2018 11:33 pm : link
They like Webb.... I know I know he wasn’t rated high coming out and there’s no tape and whatnot but if they don’t go qb then I trust Shurmur and gettleman. It’s easy to fall in love with first round prospects but all of these guys have some red flags that can’t be dismissed - especially injury history and questionable commitment to the game for the one who looks closest to a pro ready qb.

Also the new regime believes what I have screamed for years about - that the horses haven’t been around Eli to get the job done. No matter what half the giant fan contingent are screaming Eli is a problem and done and that’s just how it’s always been for the guy. I think they saw the way Eli slung the ball in Green Bay in the playoffs and vs philly with street receivers this year and they know he can still make the throws. You just can’t dismiss the bottom of the league rushing stats year after year.... I think they still believe in Eli (so do I) and that by the time he’s done, Webb is capable.
You are starting off with the assumption that the Giants were included  
wgenesis123 : 3/19/2018 11:49 pm : link
in the trade talks when you don't know that to be the case. I read this morning that it was the Colts who contacted the Jets and it was the Colts who wanted the trade done now. I have been hearing hear on BBI that there is no way the Jets and Giants make such a major trade with each other and there is very good reason to believe the Giants would not want to make that deal now as the Colts did. I also read that the Colts were telling the Jets they were talking with Buffalo. Who knows what is actually true but you do not know what the Giants did or did not turn down.
RE: You are starting off with the assumption that the Giants were included  
JohnB : 3/20/2018 3:01 am : link
In comment 13875087 wgenesis123 said:
Quote:
in the trade talks when you don't know that to be the case.


100% agreed!!! Your starting spot was wrong so everything else that followed was wrong. You have NO idea of there was a offer on the table for the Giants to refuse to begin with.
So you think the Jets payed that price to move up for a Qb  
Giantfan in skinland : 3/20/2018 6:03 am : link
A deal the Colts habe said was negotiated over the course of more ghan a week. And you think the Jets didn't even bother to check if they could move up to 2 for the same price. That would be some major incompetence given that the Giants may be targeting the same position. It's possible I guess...but I think very unlikely.
The Giants are likely going QB  
Sean : 3/20/2018 6:21 am : link
.
RE: Fools?  
Brown Recluse : 3/20/2018 6:46 am : link
In comment 13875039 gidiefor said:
Quote:
If they want to be in prime position to get the player they feel is the best player?

How so -- if you skip down 4 spots - how can you be sure you are going to get the player you want?


That is the mentality of this board. Everyone thinks they know who will be there after the Giants pick.

Wait to draft this player at 6.

You can get a good RB later.

You can get a good Guard later.

Its incredibly stupid to assume you know what will be available when.
There is no way  
gmenatlarge : 3/20/2018 7:22 am : link
the Giants can be involved in a trade giving the jets a possible franchise QB, they would never hear the end of it1
RE: There is no way  
GFAN52 : 3/20/2018 7:31 am : link
In comment 13875158 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
the Giants can be involved in a trade giving the jets a possible franchise QB, they would never hear the end of it1


Bingo. The fact that they are the Jets and share the same stadium and market most likely would put a trade premium above any other team.
RE: These are grades from nfl.com combine  
section125 : 3/20/2018 7:54 am : link
In comment 13875078 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
I know that these are what NFL.com placed based on their opinion, but you have to ask yourself why these players are graded this way overall. Why is Sam Darnold graded close to 1 point higher than Josh Rosen? Then look at Barkley’s, Chubb’s, and Nelson’s grade. Is Rosen’s grade high enough to supersede Barkley, Chubb, and Nelson to be chosen at #2 because he is a QB? The other question is what do the Giants have for grades on these players? If it’s graded anything like this, then maybe these non QBs are deserving at #2. Link - ( New Window )


Darnold rated 7.10 and Rosen only 6.19? Right. Lamar Jackson rated 6.09 and Josh Allen 5.95? Again, right..
if Giants go QB  
fkap : 3/20/2018 8:21 am : link
it's because they want a QB, NOT because they're afraid of the Jets taking one. The fear of looking foolish by the Jets is one of the stupidest memes going on BBI. Goal # 1 is to win your division. Goal # 2 is advancing in the playoffs. Neither of those goals has anything to do with the Jets.
That Jets trade tightened the shorts of DG......  
Doomster : 3/20/2018 8:25 am : link
Cleveland takes QB.....

If the Giants don't go QB, they are giving the Jets the second best QB in the draft, and possibly the best qb, if Cleveland's curse at picking qb's continue.....and the Giants and Jets will reverse fortunes, like when Jet fans had to watch Eli for years while while the Jets had the likes of Pennington, Bollinger, Testaverde, Clemens, Farvre, Sanchez, Geno Smith, Fitzpatrick, McCown.......

I think the Jets move does force DG to pick a QB.....and god forbid if Cleveland AND the New York Football Giants are wrong, and the best QB falls into the lap of the Jets....highly unlikely, but possible....

And poor Cleveland, they just might end up with the best two players in the draft....sometimes trading down does reap future rewards....
I might have missed something  
joeinpa : 3/20/2018 9:02 am : link
But I was under the impression The Jets didn t even contact the Giants
But I agree  
joeinpa : 3/20/2018 9:03 am : link
If the Giants can get either Nelson or Barkley at 6, taking them at two is a wast of resources
Doomster  
fkap : 3/20/2018 9:05 am : link
do you honestly think that the Giants are going to ignore their own draft board and lack of conviction on the QB prospects, and take one simply because they're afraid one might turn out good for the Jets?

If the Giants like a QB, they'll pick him. If they don't, they won't. They aren't basing their pick on the Jets draft board.
RE: I might have missed something  
Giantfan in skinland : 3/20/2018 9:39 am : link
In comment 13875363 joeinpa said:
Quote:
But I was under the impression The Jets didn't even contact the Giants


If they didn't check with the Browns and Giants as to whether they would take the deal to allow the Jets to move to #1 or #2 and were simply content to take the Giants and Browns leftovers, their GM should be fired on the spot.
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