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If the Giants pick

George from PA : 3/20/2018 6:27 am
Remains at 2: Darnold, Rosen or Allen are only acceptable picks. As they can leverage Denver and Buffalo to squeeze something from the Jets to swap picks.

At 3: Barkley and Chubb would be the only players acceptable as either are probably Cleveland's targets and we can still convince Denver to move up as they know Buffalo is throwing the farm to move up.

I am not sure how to get Cleveland to trade up as their options at 4 are too good. Even if they desire Barkley, the Giants will be force to draft him and try to trade like San Diego did with Eli which would be risky to say the least.

Picks 5-8 are where the balance of the blue chips. Nelson should be available at 5 and I am sure Denver would trade up. I would be disappointed getting Nelson any earlier.
False  
robbieballs2003 : 3/20/2018 6:39 am : link
.
Ill help you out. You seem confused  
Tuckrule : 3/20/2018 6:46 am : link
1. It will be darnold. It’s all smoke now at this time. Darnold was the consensus number 1 a year ago and then people feel the need to dethrone the consensus number 1 with their blue chipper. End of the day darnold goes 1.

2. Giants take Joshua Rosen at 2. Value, intelligence and need all wrapped up into one. A pure thrower pocket passer with athletism. Giants will snatch him up

3. The jets will take either baker or Allen. I say allen just because he played in cold weather big body big arm. I have a hard time seeing a 6 foot qb go in the top 3.

4. This is where I think the browns take Chubb to pair with Garrett and have 2 legit book ends for a decade. Barkley is the sexy pick for a Rowan club but Chubb is the smart one

5. Denver selects John elway a guy the feisty baker mayfield.

Barkley drops which is a surprise to most but not to me. Every year this happens a can’t miss guy drops. This year that award goes to Barkley.
^  
Tuckrule : 3/20/2018 6:47 am : link
John elways guy, baker mayfield***
If the Giant do not want a QB  
George from PA : 3/20/2018 6:48 am : link
I bet they end up picking at 5 and will have 2 of these 3 to chose from Chubb, Nelson or Barkley
False  
George from PA : 3/20/2018 6:51 am : link
What?
RE: False  
robbieballs2003 : 3/20/2018 7:10 am : link
In comment 13875139 George from PA said:
Quote:
What?


You say the only player worth the second pick is a QB. That ks false. Then you talk about the third pick and say the only acceptable pick is a non-QB. That makes no sense and contradicts your first point.

And are we drafting for the NY Giants or are we drafting for other teams?
RE: If the Giant do not want a QB  
Eman11 : 3/20/2018 7:17 am : link
In comment 13875137 George from PA said:
Quote:
I bet they end up picking at 5 and will have 2 of these 3 to chose from Chubb, Nelson or Barkley


Yeah, I agree with you and would put Fitzpatrick in that mix.

I do think the Browns are going to take Chubb at 4, because the DE quality depth isn't there this year and I see a dropooff at that position after Chubb.

That would set them up nice on the DL with Garrett and they'd be able to get a quality RB at the top of the 2nd Rd if they want one.
Robbie  
George from PA : 3/20/2018 7:18 am : link
If the player is acceptablr at 2....they would obviously be acceptable 3. Duh.

Now...the Giants would not trade with the Jets....if they both are targeting QBs
Lets see  
robbieballs2003 : 3/20/2018 7:21 am : link
Quote:
At 3: Barkley and Chubb would be the (b]only[/b] players acceptable as either are probably Cleveland's targets and we can still convince Denver to move up as they know Buffalo is throwing the farm to move up.


So, Chubb and Barkley are acceptable at 3 but not at 2? Ok, good job.
Wow...robbie.  
George from PA : 3/20/2018 7:30 am : link
To get more value.....you can swap with the Jets....and they do not risk losing chubb or barkley.

So yes...take advantage....get a couple of more picks....from tge jets and still get their target.
Wow...robbie. i expected better  
George from PA : 3/20/2018 7:32 am : link
The Giants can get a few extra picks and not risk losing Chubb and Barkley....swapping picks with the Jets.

What do you not understand?
RE: Robbie  
Bill L : 3/20/2018 7:36 am : link
In comment 13875154 George from PA said:
Quote:
If the player is acceptablr at 2....they would obviously be acceptable 3. Duh.

Now...the Giants would not trade with the Jets....if they both are targeting QBs
I don't think he understood your point. But I think that you are right. If the Giants decide that they do not want a QB, then they could dangle the #2 to another team which wold force the Jets to move up one spot to get the QB of their choice. Essentially, the Giants would get their (non-QB) guy plus a free player in your scenario. They would be foolish not to do that. The Jets should offer a kicker and move up anyway because it's hard to believe that they have 3 guys that they view interchangeably and their QB need is logarithmically greater than the Giants'. In this case, though, the premium should be bigger to persuade the Giants to actually not take a QB.
No Chubb at 2  
nochance : 3/20/2018 7:50 am : link
With the Giants looking at the 3-4 defense this year Chubb is a bad fit. He is an excellent 4-3 DE and should not be considered for a 3-4 OLB. A project at pick #2? If The Giants make this pick FUCK MY REMOTE my big screen TV is going off my 12th floor terrace
RE: Wow...robbie.  
robbieballs2003 : 3/20/2018 7:51 am : link
In comment 13875160 George from PA said:
Quote:
To get more value.....you can swap with the Jets....and they do not risk losing chubb or barkley.

So yes...take advantage....get a couple of more picks....from tge jets and still get their target.


You are assuming everybody wants to trade with us. It was reported that the Jets are convinced we dont take a QB. So, why would the Jets trade up? What do they have left to trade? Are you trading down for a third because they have no second round picks? Are they giving up next year's first? Not happening if they believe we aren't taking a QB. Even if we do take a QB then maybe it isn't the one they want.

Most likely the Giants have Barkley, Nelson, and Chubb rated much higher than the QBs. So, you can say that we can trade down and still get one but lets say Chubb is the highest rated player on their board (I love Barkley and Nelson and would be happy with either but it isn't what I want). If you can get somethinh oit of the Jets then great but why would they? Also, you cannot just say trade back and we take one. If Chubb is the highest rated player then it makes sense to take the best edge defender in the draft, follow it up with a stud OL, and then a quality RB. Pass rushers are at a premium and this draft doesn't have many. OL seems bunched around the second round but I think it drops off. RB is deep. So, it makes perfect sense to grab Chubb. The only reason people dont like it is because he hasn't been pumped up like the other prospects.

They put Chubb up against the other top pash rushers on Path To The Draft in terms of being a prospect and he was only behind Garrett, Clowney, Mack, and Bosa. They've all played very well. Charles Davis said he's a more athletic Chandler Jones and Jones just has a big year under Bettcher.
Be prepared to  
Beer Man : 3/20/2018 7:51 am : link
be disappointed
Pick #1  
Dragon : 3/20/2018 8:01 am : link
Is the key today it could be four players from all reports Barkley, Allen, Rosen or Darnold. If the Jets want Darnold or Rosen and one is taken at number 1, then they are in a bind because the Giants can move out of number 2, not a given but possible. If your the Jets and believe another team may move up and take the player you put yourself in slot number 3, for will you bite the bullet or aggressively move into slot number 2?
RE: RE: Wow...robbie.  
bigbluescot : 3/20/2018 8:05 am : link
In comment 13875189 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13875160 George from PA said:


Quote:


To get more value.....you can swap with the Jets....and they do not risk losing chubb or barkley.

So yes...take advantage....get a couple of more picks....from tge jets and still get their target.



You are assuming everybody wants to trade with us. It was reported that the Jets are convinced we dont take a QB. So, why would the Jets trade up? What do they have left to trade? Are you trading down for a third because they have no second round picks? Are they giving up next year's first? Not happening if they believe we aren't taking a QB. Even if we do take a QB then maybe it isn't the one they want.

Most likely the Giants have Barkley, Nelson, and Chubb rated much higher than the QBs. So, you can say that we can trade down and still get one but lets say Chubb is the highest rated player on their board (I love Barkley and Nelson and would be happy with either but it isn't what I want). If you can get somethinh oit of the Jets then great but why would they? Also, you cannot just say trade back and we take one. If Chubb is the highest rated player then it makes sense to take the best edge defender in the draft, follow it up with a stud OL, and then a quality RB. Pass rushers are at a premium and this draft doesn't have many. OL seems bunched around the second round but I think it drops off. RB is deep. So, it makes perfect sense to grab Chubb. The only reason people dont like it is because he hasn't been pumped up like the other prospects.

They put Chubb up against the other top pash rushers on Path To The Draft in terms of being a prospect and he was only behind Garrett, Clowney, Mack, and Bosa. They've all played very well. Charles Davis said he's a more athletic Chandler Jones and Jones just has a big year under Bettcher.


Unless Denver get involved, the only real plausible trade is a convoluted one with the Bills trading with the Colts then trading with us. Or us trading with the Bills and then with the Colts, and even that is a bit of a stretch.

Lets try to gameplan on the basis of a Giants/Bills trade followed by a Giants/Colts trade. Ultimately the picks involved would be the same either way.

On the trade value chart, the No. 2 pick is worth 2,600 points. But considering the Jets just gave up 2,956 for the No. 3 pick, then the Bills would need to come up with at least 3000 'points' of value.

At the moment, the Bills have picks 12 (1,200 points), 22 (780 points), 53 (370 points) and 56 (340 points) in the first two rounds. That's a total of 2,690 points. Traditionally on the value chart that would be enough to move up to the No. 2 pick, but the Jets set a different value. They will need to find at least 300 more points worth of draft picks. They also have the first pick in the 3rd round, 65 which is 'worth' 265 points.

To do so, they could throw in a future second-round pick, or repackage the deal throwing in a future 1st rounder. But lets say that the deal is roughly

12 (1,200)
22 (780)
53 (370)
56 (340)
65 (265)
+2019 2nd round (I believe the rule of thumb is to take the value of the mid point of the next round: i.e roughly about pick 82 (180)

That's a total of 3,135 points on the value chart. Now what stock you (or anyone else) put in the value chart is questionable, but it's a decent return comparable with other trades. Whether the Bills would buy it I don't know, but it's roughly what I'd go for (although I'd probably start the bidding with their 2019 1st)

The 6th pick is valued at 1600 points. To move there in theory the giants would require the 12th (1,200) and 56 (340) + 65 (265) = 1805 points which represents good value for a Colts team who are in the market for picks.

That would leave us with picks

6 (with a strong likelihood that one of Chubb, Nelson or Barkley are still on the board because in this situation at least 3 QB's are coming off the board, with a high likelihood that Denver at taking one as well)
22
34
53

+2019 2nd rounder.

If I'm not in the market for a QB (and I think I probably would be), then that's roughly what I'd take. Then there's a decent chance you could get say Nelson + Price (which immediately makes the oline a strength), and you could get one of good crop of CB's early and a RB. There are also pretty decent ILB or OLB in that 2nd round range. It'd be transformative.

It's a good draft class in the first 2/3 rounds. If we're not going QB then there's a good argument for maximizing the number of picks below 60.

Of course this is purely speculative, but the Bills have enough ammo to get to 6 and put together a decent offer to the Giants.

I understand that i might be disapointed  
George from PA : 3/20/2018 8:05 am : link
It was a given with Reese.

I am glad the Jets are convince the Giants are not going for a QB....i do not think they know that...as it is only reason to stand pat at 2.

I suspect QBs go 1-2-3.....

George- has there been real talk that the Giants turned down  
Jimmy Googs : 3/20/2018 8:09 am : link
an offer from the Jets? Or just BBI banter...
RE: Pick #1  
bigbluescot : 3/20/2018 8:11 am : link
In comment 13875208 Dragon said:
Quote:
Is the key today it could be four players from all reports Barkley, Allen, Rosen or Darnold. If the Jets want Darnold or Rosen and one is taken at number 1, then they are in a bind because the Giants can move out of number 2, not a given but possible. If your the Jets and believe another team may move up and take the player you put yourself in slot number 3, for will you bite the bullet or aggressively move into slot number 2?


I just don't see the Jets having the ammo outside of their 1st next year. They don't have a 2nd next year, and their remaining picks this year are 72 (3rd), 107 (4th), 157 (5th), 179 (6th) and 235 (7th).

If you're not taking a QB, then I suppose something is better than nothing. On that blasted chart, the draft 'value' terms moving from 3 to 2 is 'worth' 400 points. Their remaining draft class this year is only 'worth' 358 points.
The Jets moving up actually screwed the Giants  
Rudy5757 : 3/20/2018 8:15 am : link
If the Giants don't want a QB. Yes we can take the non qb we want at 2 but we could have used the Broncos and jets as pawns and still get one of the top non Qbs at 5 or 6. Now the Jets have very little to give up to move to 2. We could still say Denver is going to jump to the Jets, but the pick haul would be low.

Maybe Denver still jumps to 2, but if they assume we are not taking a QB then they can sit and just take the 3rd qb especially if they have a feeling of who the Jets are taking at 3.

If we want a QB, we sit tight and grab him at 2 or maybe get a pick from the Jets for a 1 swap and still get the QB you want.
wrong.  
Victor in CT : 3/20/2018 8:18 am : link
.........
RE: The Jets moving up actually screwed the Giants  
Jimmy Googs : 3/20/2018 8:22 am : link
In comment 13875233 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
If the Giants don't want a QB. Yes we can take the non qb we want at 2 but we could have used the Broncos and jets as pawns and still get one of the top non Qbs at 5 or 6. Now the Jets have very little to give up to move to 2. We could still say Denver is going to jump to the Jets, but the pick haul would be low.

Maybe Denver still jumps to 2, but if they assume we are not taking a QB then they can sit and just take the 3rd qb especially if they have a feeling of who the Jets are taking at 3.

If we want a QB, we sit tight and grab him at 2 or maybe get a pick from the Jets for a 1 swap and still get the QB you want.


It only helped us by bringing yet more value to the #2 slot. Case closed...
Looking at Denver  
bigbluescot : 3/20/2018 8:23 am : link
and using the chart again.

Denver have a lot of picks, 10 in total but only two in the first two rounds.

They've got

1st: 5 (1,700)
2nd: 40 (500)
3rd: 71 (235)
3rd: 99 (104)
4th: 106 (82)
4th: 109 (76)
5th: 142 (34.5)
5th: 160 (27)
5th: 163 (25.8)
6th: 182 (18.2)
7th: 225 (1.2)

Without getting too into the draft chart, the 2nd pick is 'worth' 2600 points. It'd take

1st: 5 (1,700)
2nd: 40 (500)
3rd: 71 (235)
3rd: 99 (104)
4th: 106 (82)

to get close. And frankly, even if they threw in a 2nd next year, I'd probably prefer the scenario from earlier where the Bills come down to the 6th and then attempt to make a deal with us.
"the only acceptable pick"  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/20/2018 8:23 am : link
OK - guess the rest of us (including the GM and HC) can't have their own opinions...
Stay at 2  
ryanmkeane : 3/20/2018 8:58 am : link
and take Barkley unless the Bills/Broncos/Miami offer a RGIII type trade haul. That's where I'm at.
RE: No Chubb at 2  
blueblood : 3/20/2018 9:05 am : link
In comment 13875186 nochance said:
Quote:
With the Giants looking at the 3-4 defense this year Chubb is a bad fit. He is an excellent 4-3 DE and should not be considered for a 3-4 OLB. A project at pick #2? If The Giants make this pick FUCK MY REMOTE my big screen TV is going off my 12th floor terrace


The Cardinals took Chandler Jones and who was a 4-3 DE and turned him into a 3-4 OLB. They also had their designs on JPP and saw him fitting in their defense as well. Bettcher might have ideas on how he would like to use CHubb.

Also another thing to think about is they can move on from JPP next year if I remember correctly..

RE: RE: Wow...robbie.  
Eman11 : 3/20/2018 10:02 am : link
In comment 13875189 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13875160 George from PA said:


Quote:


To get more value.....you can swap with the Jets....and they do not risk losing chubb or barkley.

So yes...take advantage....get a couple of more picks....from tge jets and still get their target.



You are assuming everybody wants to trade with us. It was reported that the Jets are convinced we dont take a QB. So, why would the Jets trade up? What do they have left to trade? Are you trading down for a third because they have no second round picks? Are they giving up next year's first? Not happening if they believe we aren't taking a QB. Even if we do take a QB then maybe it isn't the one they want.

Most likely the Giants have Barkley, Nelson, and Chubb rated much higher than the QBs. So, you can say that we can trade down and still get one but lets say Chubb is the highest rated player on their board (I love Barkley and Nelson and would be happy with either but it isn't what I want). If you can get somethinh oit of the Jets then great but why would they? Also, you cannot just say trade back and we take one. If Chubb is the highest rated player then it makes sense to take the best edge defender in the draft, follow it up with a stud OL, and then a quality RB. Pass rushers are at a premium and this draft doesn't have many. OL seems bunched around the second round but I think it drops off. RB is deep. So, it makes perfect sense to grab Chubb. The only reason people dont like it is because he hasn't been pumped up like the other prospects.

They put Chubb up against the other top pash rushers on Path To The Draft in terms of being a prospect and he was only behind Garrett, Clowney, Mack, and Bosa. They've all played very well. Charles Davis said he's a more athletic Chandler Jones and Jones just has a big year under Bettcher.


The Jets would want or maybe even be forced to trade up if thyey feared another team or teams would jump them for the guy they really want, Eg Denver or Buffalo.

I'd take their #1 next year to swap back and another pick if we could get it. Even if it's just the #1 next year, how is that not a good deal for the Giants? They'd still get the guy they want (assuming they don't want a QB) and come away with a premium pick next year. It's basically a bonus for them and a no brainier IMO.
All the Chubb  
ryanmkeane : 3/20/2018 10:16 am : link
Chandler Jones comparisons...I'd want someone better than Chandler Jones if we take him between picks 2 and 6. I would want Von Miller.
RE: Ill help you out. You seem confused  
fanofthejets : 3/22/2018 4:03 pm : link
In comment 13875135 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
1. It will be darnold. It’s all smoke now at this time. Darnold was the consensus number 1 a year ago and then people feel the need to dethrone the consensus number 1 with their blue chipper. End of the day darnold goes 1.

2. Giants take Joshua Rosen at 2. Value, intelligence and need all wrapped up into one. A pure thrower pocket passer with athletism. Giants will snatch him up

3. The jets will take either baker or Allen. I say allen just because he played in cold weather big body big arm. I have a hard time seeing a 6 foot qb go in the top 3.

4. This is where I think the browns take Chubb to pair with Garrett and have 2 legit book ends for a decade. Barkley is the sexy pick for a Rowan club but Chubb is the smart one

5. Denver selects John elway a guy the feisty baker mayfield.

Barkley drops which is a surprise to most but not to me. Every year this happens a can’t miss guy drops. This year that award goes to Barkley.


Jets won't touch an inaccurate project like Allen at 3 if Rosen/Darnold are off the board. Especially after the Hackenberg disaster. It'll be Mayfield guaranteed. They like Mayfield a lot.
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