Updated NFL Rumor:
For the #2 NY Giants pick, Buffalo Bills propose the following:
2018 1st Round (#12 overall)
2018 1st Round (#22)
2018 2nd Round (#53)
2018 3rd Round (#65)
2019 2nd Round
The Giants are purportedly likely to counter but talks seem to be on. For me nothing less than a 2019 First Round instead of a Second Round.
Why are the Knicks the Knicks? I would argue one of the main reasons is that they have so botched their drafts that they are forced to make rash free agent moves.
Sounds like the Giants right now to me.
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but you are nuts. You are nuts even putting the Knicks and Giants in the same sentence. Unless the sentence is....The Knicks and Giants are both NY teams, you have no business comparing them. It's actually insane to suggest it. Sort of sad actually.
I see two mismanaged teams right now. Hopefully the Giants will return to being competitive.
Folks are not looking at the big picture. In 2007, Mara listened to Accorsi who told him to promote Reese over Gettleman. Ten years later, Reese has so destroyed this roster that he was fired before the season ended. So what does Mara do? He goes back and asks Accorsi who he should hire!
It may work out very nicely. But if you were to stand back as a non-Giants fan and read what I just wrote, you would think that isn't such a great idea.
The Knicks haven't been competitive in my lifetime.
Giants certainly have issues and they botched McApoo, but they are not in same league of F-ups and mis management as the Knicks and Browns are. You need at least 10 more years of missery before we can go there...
#22 & #34: OG Hernandez and C Price/Daniels
#53: use #65 pick to trade up into early 2nd round and get Sony Michel.
Use all remaining picks on defense.
I also would only do this if we can have the Bills' 2019 first rounder. Don't need any other 2019 picks.
We would have three quality OL who will all likely start from Day 1 and our line will be set for 4-5 years. On top of that we'd have Michel, Beckham, Shep, Engram. I truly believe with that supporting cast Eli has enough left in the tank to make a run in the next 2 years.
If we suck again next year, and we still aren't sure about Webb after another year of development, we'd then likely have 2 high-1st round picks in 2019 to get the QB we want.
This deal would allow us to have the best of both worlds: Give Eli the best possible chance to make one more run, AND set our team up for a bright future with a rebuilt o-line and the opportunity to still get our franchise QB next year.
Thoughts?
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but you are nuts. You are nuts even putting the Knicks and Giants in the same sentence. Unless the sentence is....The Knicks and Giants are both NY teams, you have no business comparing them. It's actually insane to suggest it. Sort of sad actually.
I see two mismanaged teams right now. Hopefully the Giants will return to being competitive.
Folks are not looking at the big picture. In 2007, Mara listened to Accorsi who told him to promote Reese over Gettleman. Ten years later, Reese has so destroyed this roster that he was fired before the season ended. So what does Mara do? He goes back and asks Accorsi who he should hire!
It may work out very nicely. But if you were to stand back as a non-Giants fan and read what I just wrote, you would think that isn't such a great idea.
I can't say that wasn't the correct choice unless you think Gettleman wins us 4-5 Superbowls in that timeframe. 2 Superbowls in 10 years means overall the Reese era was a success.
They've actually drafted some quality NBA players. The issue is trading them away to chase winning or as a result of impatience.
In the last 15 NBA drafts, the Knicks had a first round pick in 11 of them and produced 10 players who went on to have legitimately decent or better NBA careers. Most of them not as Knicks.
Nene, Danilo, Ariza, KP, Hardaway, Shumpert, Frye, Lee, KP, Chandler.
We went way off course here though.
I would argue that the 2011 team was an extremely flawed team that got incredibly hot at the right time.
Since then, the team has steadily deteriorated (again with the aberration being 2016).
#22 & #34: OG Hernandez and C Price/Daniels
#53: use #65 pick to trade up into early 2nd round and get Sony Michel.
Use all remaining picks on defense.
I also would only do this if we can have the Bills' 2019 first rounder. Don't need any other 2019 picks.
We would have three quality OL who will all likely start from Day 1 and our line will be set for 4-5 years. On top of that we'd have Michel, Beckham, Shep, Engram. I truly believe with that supporting cast Eli has enough left in the tank to make a run in the next 2 years.
If we suck again next year, and we still aren't sure about Webb after another year of development, we'd then likely have 2 high-1st round picks in 2019 to get the QB we want.
This deal would allow us to have the best of both worlds: Give Eli the best possible chance to make one more run, AND set our team up for a bright future with a rebuilt o-line and the opportunity to still get our franchise QB next year.
Thoughts?
I like getting a lot of picks from the Bills because this team has a lot of holes sand that 2019 Bills first rounder will be high.
The thing is, our 2019 first rounder is going to be high as well. This team isn't making another run in 2019, not with this horrible roster.
Moreover, we're past the point of constructing a team with the idea of "making another run with Eli". Great if it happens, but you can't plan for that anymore.
5 picks. LOL. People need to stop saying this. and every keeps parroting it "the Giants have only 5 picks". So what?
If they had 12 picks it wouldn't change anything, if they're the ones they're missing.
UDFA's have a better chance at becoming successful NFL players than 5th, 6th or 7th round picks.
they really have 3 consequential picks, like any other year.
if you're relying on a 4th or 5th round pick to step in and contribute as a rookie (or even ever) you are delusional.
the odds of a 4th or 5th round pick becoming an NFL starter for even half their games is remote. The odds are better they will be useless to their drafting team.
The Giants have a bunch of holes. Right now they have many more missing pieces than assets.
The Giants have a bunch of holes. Right now they have many more missing pieces than assets.
the Giants are without their 6th and 7th round pick, which gives them only 5 picks.
it does not matter.
In fact, I'd argue they're better off with UDFA's than draft picks so the GM doesn't feel pressured to keep a player they drafted over a UDFA.
The Giants do not need to fill out their roster with 6th and 7th round picks.
You have to go back to 2007 to find a meaningful contribution from a 6th or 7th round pick for the Giants.
How far do you need to go back for a UDFA contribution?
I'll take the chance.
And as some have speculated/advised I definitely WOULD NOT trade down because of "only" having 5 draft picks. That's absolutely ridiculous.
#22 & #34: OG Hernandez and C Price/Daniels
#53: use #65 pick to trade up into early 2nd round and get Sony Michel.
Use all remaining picks on defense.
I also would only do this if we can have the Bills' 2019 first rounder. Don't need any other 2019 picks.
We would have three quality OL who will all likely start from Day 1 and our line will be set for 4-5 years. On top of that we'd have Michel, Beckham, Shep, Engram. I truly believe with that supporting cast Eli has enough left in the tank to make a run in the next 2 years.
If we suck again next year, and we still aren't sure about Webb after another year of development, we'd then likely have 2 high-1st round picks in 2019 to get the QB we want.
This deal would allow us to have the best of both worlds: Give Eli the best possible chance to make one more run, AND set our team up for a bright future with a rebuilt o-line and the opportunity to still get our franchise QB next year.
Thoughts?
If our first pick ends up being fucking McGlinchy I will be pissed beyond measure.
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It does matter... many rosters in the NFL are filled with low level picks...these guys are at least special teams contributors.
The Giants have a bunch of holes. Right now they have many more missing pieces than assets.
the Giants are without their 6th and 7th round pick, which gives them only 5 picks.
it does not matter.
In fact, I'd argue they're better off with UDFA's than draft picks so the GM doesn't feel pressured to keep a player they drafted over a UDFA.
The Giants do not need to fill out their roster with 6th and 7th round picks.
You have to go back to 2007 to find a meaningful contribution from a 6th or 7th round pick for the Giants.
How far do you need to go back for a UDFA contribution?
I'll take the chance.
And as some have speculated/advised I definitely WOULD NOT trade down because of "only" having 5 draft picks. That's absolutely ridiculous.
You're forgetting Da'rel Scott :-)
I think Accorsi was a decent GM and I think Reese was a decent director of college scouting. I don't think Reese was cut out to be a GM and I think Reese made a horribly decision to hire Ross. Different skills.
We'll have to see about Gettleman. Remember, the Panthers just fired him.
League wide, 6th and 7th round picks historically are rare to ever contribute and even more rare to contribute as rookies.
I'll trade a 4th round comp pick and 6th round pick every single time I have them for Alec Ogletree and he only needs to be below average to make it a huge win for a trade.
Maybe that's the point you're missing, not sure. But the Giants used those picks to get Ogletree (this year) and Cockerell last year.
I'll trade a 6th and/or 7th round pick EVERY SINGLE YEAR for players like Ogletree or Cockerell.
It's almost like you'd prefer to have the 4th and 6th round pick back and not have Ogletree, so you can draft someone who will in all likelihood be a lot worse than Ogletree (or Cockerell) to fill out the bottom of the roster.
I think the Giants can more effectively fill the roster with UDFA's or dumpster dive for FA's than a 6th and 7th round pick.
Not sure why the strange obsession fans have with the "lost" 2 picks.
1. Choosing Reese over Gettleman (can't go further to show how poor this decision was than hiring Gettleman 10 years later)
2. Choosing Reese over Coughlin. There were plenty of fans that viewed Reese as more of the problem than TC. What was abundantly clear is that Reese had a habit of ignoring certain positions or areas with glaring lacks of talent even going into the season.
3. The timing of choosing Gettleman. I hope he works out great, he was a "safe" pick but there are several serious concerns in the thinking behind hiring him.
A. Loyalty to a regime that hasn't shown it can amass a well rounded team. They brought in Accorsi as a consultant, this was always going to be a guy in the current inner Giants circle. Sure Ross and Reese are out. But the idea that they are the only ones responsible for the current state is flawed logic. If you are missing as much as we did in rounds 3-7 it is not just decision making that is flawed but information too.
B. What makes A even more concerning is that they didn't seem interested at all in even HEARING new ideas or being open to the thought that their whole approach might need to be changed.
C. At a time when news about the Patriots advanced software system is surfacing and the Eagles long known for being pioneers in advanced analytics won the super bowl we hire a guy that seems as old school in a scouting approach as you can get. He talks about a qualitative evaluation of personalities. I agree this is vital but if you are not approaching this from a data science perspective as well as a look a guy in the eye approach you are not doing it correctly. Even the Steelers as old school as it gets brought in someone 3 years ago to tackle the problem of finding ways to blend the old and new.
D. Even if Gettleman is "safe" from the vantage point that he has been successful using old school methods in the past he's rubbed some people the wrong way. Explain it away all you want but getting fired from your last job shouldn't be ignored. Beckham does not seem like the kind of guy that takes to being strong armed and we might have just brought in someone that plays a role in losing our most talented player IMO since LT. It seems like we were so desperate to find a **clean** talent evaluation leader that was in the Giants family that we were sold every aspect of Gettleman's personality as a positive. Being tough with players and their value cuts both ways and in everything I've read it has been characterized as an asset to him.
E. Lastly, as we were looking for GM and coach I kept on seeing this logic that they needed NFL experience and success to be seriously considered, seemingly as a backlash for MacAdoo and possibly even Reese. Nothing wrong with citing experience for a reason to hire someone but the idea that Mara and Co might be rejecting the idea of hiring an up and comer just because they failed to properly evaluate leadership in the past is a scary premise. It's important to take lessons with you and learn from mistakes but if those mistakes cause you to question your own ability to identify a rising talent maybe you shouldn't be the one evaluating said talent.
We don't need this trade.
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on one hand you are criticizing Accorsi for recommending Reese, but on the other hand you are saying 2007 was built by Accorsi, not Reese. Can’t have it both ways with Accorsi.
I think Accorsi was a decent GM and I think Reese was a decent director of college scouting. I don't think Reese was cut out to be a GM and I think Reese made a horribly decision to hire Ross. Different skills.
We'll have to see about Gettleman. Remember, the Panthers just fired him.
The only real bad thing I could point out the Accorsi did was taking that Vandy kicker in the 5th rd 2001 draft that no one ever scouted in person.
Or maybe the Bills have a player they can add to the mix that we'd really like to have?
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Again, one of the reasons why the Giants are in the position they are in is that they have drafted so poorly in EVERY round.
League wide, 6th and 7th round picks historically are rare to ever contribute and even more rare to contribute as rookies.
I'll trade a 4th round comp pick and 6th round pick every single time I have them for Alec Ogletree and he only needs to be below average to make it a huge win for a trade.
Maybe that's the point you're missing, not sure. But the Giants used those picks to get Ogletree (this year) and Cockerell last year.
I'll trade a 6th and/or 7th round pick EVERY SINGLE YEAR for players like Ogletree or Cockerell.
It's almost like you'd prefer to have the 4th and 6th round pick back and not have Ogletree, so you can draft someone who will in all likelihood be a lot worse than Ogletree (or Cockerell) to fill out the bottom of the roster.
I think the Giants can more effectively fill the roster with UDFA's or dumpster dive for FA's than a 6th and 7th round pick.
Not sure why the strange obsession fans have with the "lost" 2 picks.
+1
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Again, one of the reasons why the Giants are in the position they are in is that they have drafted so poorly in EVERY round.
League wide, 6th and 7th round picks historically are rare to ever contribute and even more rare to contribute as rookies.
I'll trade a 4th round comp pick and 6th round pick every single time I have them for Alec Ogletree and he only needs to be below average to make it a huge win for a trade.
Maybe that's the point you're missing, not sure. But the Giants used those picks to get Ogletree (this year) and Cockerell last year.
I'll trade a 6th and/or 7th round pick EVERY SINGLE YEAR for players like Ogletree or Cockerell.
It's almost like you'd prefer to have the 4th and 6th round pick back and not have Ogletree, so you can draft someone who will in all likelihood be a lot worse than Ogletree (or Cockerell) to fill out the bottom of the roster.
I think the Giants can more effectively fill the roster with UDFA's or dumpster dive for FA's than a 6th and 7th round pick.
Not sure why the strange obsession fans have with the "lost" 2 picks.
Great post. 6th rounders like Bisnowaty (who they traded up for) are never going to be markedly different in terms of talent than a UDFAs like Wheeler/Halapio. After the top 150-200 picks, the rest are crap shoots. Or else they would have been picked in the first 150-200.
Yes some will still hit, the same way some UDFA's hit every year. Guys fall through the cracks. But 6th/7th round picks are basically meaningless. In the 4th round you should get a contributor like Gallman, or BJ Goodson, but it would seem to me that it's a no-brainer to add an impact talent like Ogletree.
I really don't care what the Bills are offering. We do NOT need a pile of draft picks. We need the next franchise QB to be Eli's replacement.
Even if in the deal we get the Bills' first pick next year. That pick most likely will not be a top 10. So, we will end up having to deal those picks AND MORE back to get to the top 5 to possibly grab whichever QB we like next year. We could end up having to give up a ransom just like we did for Eli. Plus, the teams near the top may want that QB and wont make a deal with us.
When we traded with San Diego, we gave up a lot to get Eli and at the time people were thinking we gave up too much. Fast forward to 2018 and I dont think anyone wants all of those draft picks back. Well, that is exactly what the Bills are trying to do now. 15 years from now those 3-4 picks will mean nothing. Let's not be the fools who let the Bills draft our next franchise QB.
** The Browns were collecting draft picks over the past few years. It got them a winless season because they do not have a QB.
It is the Bills after all.
This is the draft scenario I'm crossing my fingers for.
And we just made a guy who was considered the an above average left tackle the highest paid linemen in the NFL "because we had to."
Now the Giants are saying Eli has a lot left in the tank. If they are wrong about that, and don't draft the QB, we may be regretting that for years and years.
This mess did not need to happen. It took serial mismanagement on the part of the two genetic lottery winners in the owners box to bring us to this point. And we won't get out of it until those two stop their meddling into football personnel matters.
We're gonna continue to go round and round on this draft pick over the next few weeks, but if we don't find our franchise QB we might be headed back to the 1970s. Bradley Chubb sure as shit won't stop it.
What's to say the Giants didn't leak it to get Denver to bite? Denver may have signed Keenum but he is still just a very good backup. Elway has been all over Josh Allen. Denver jumps up, leaves the Giants #5 (Barkley, Nelson, Chubb?) and a couple other high picks and maybe #1 next year.
It is the Bills after all.
This is the draft scenario I'm crossing my fingers for.
Talk about kicking the can down the road. We already have a top 2 pick with multiple prospects who line up well with the rebuilding of our roster. But let's back out of that, pass on the blue chip prospects, stock up on red chips, and hope that Buffalo gifts us the pick next year that we should just take for ourselves this year.
It is the Bills after all.
This is the draft scenario I'm crossing my fingers for.
Talk about kicking the can down the road. We already have a top 2 pick with multiple prospects who line up well with the rebuilding of our roster. But let's back out of that, pass on the blue chip prospects, stock up on red chips, and hope that Buffalo gifts us the pick next year that we should just take for ourselves this year.
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Could very easily be a top 5 pick. Especially if they pick and start a rookie QB in 2018.
It is the Bills after all.
This is the draft scenario I'm crossing my fingers for.
Talk about kicking the can down the road. We already have a top 2 pick with multiple prospects who line up well with the rebuilding of our roster. But let's back out of that, pass on the blue chip prospects, stock up on red chips, and hope that Buffalo gifts us the pick next year that we should just take for ourselves this year.
LOL, so true. These fans crack me up.
This past season they were winless because they did not have a franchise QB.
You can keep your picks. We should not trade down and we must select our next franchise QB this year.
If we don't then DG Is Reese 2.
This past season they were winless because they did not have a franchise QB.
You can keep your picks. We should not trade down and we must select our next franchise QB this year.
If we don't then DG Is Reese 2.
How about the Bills? Last year they traded down and stockpiled picks & now are desperately trying to trade back up.
Something people aren’t talking about - Accorsi is a huge believer in QB’s, and always had the belief you need to take one when the opportunity arises.
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Cleveland stockpiled picks and did not get a franchise QB. In fact, they were crowned the winners of the draft a year or two ago if I remember correctly.
This past season they were winless because they did not have a franchise QB.
You can keep your picks. We should not trade down and we must select our next franchise QB this year.
If we don't then DG Is Reese 2.
How about the Bills? Last year they traded down and stockpiled picks & now are desperately trying to trade back up.
exactly my point..