Updated NFL Rumor:
For the #2 NY Giants pick, Buffalo Bills propose the following:
2018 1st Round (#12 overall)
2018 1st Round (#22)
2018 2nd Round (#53)
2018 3rd Round (#65)
2019 2nd Round
The Giants are purportedly likely to counter but talks seem to be on. For me nothing less than a 2019 First Round instead of a Second Round.
Yes, there probably are 4 blue chip non-QBs, but as has been stated, you can move back up to 7 or 8 or if you're deadset on getting one of those players. You certainly would have the equity to get a deal done and it becomes much easier to trade up once the QBs are off the board.
As it's also been stated, the flipside to saying that not all those picks will work out is that the blue chipper isn't a lock to succeed either. And the upside to connecting on a bounty of picks is huge, if you've locked in 4-6 starters on cost controlled contracts, with maybe one of them turning into a pro bowl player, you have the core to make a run for 4 years. I'd start at QB, but would pursue this if they don't have one of these guys graded high enough.
I'm guessing this is just some writer speculating what it would take, nothing more.
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So, Buffalo is willing to trade a ton of premium picks in two drafts to get the QB that we, somehow, don't want because I guess that's possible but I don't get it.
If they take that trade and Webb isn't a sensation the minute he walk on the field, Gettleman should be fired before Webb walks on the field the next time.
BUffalo has AJ McCarron and nothing else. Other people's desperate need should not dictate what we should do.
And we have a 37 year old QB and a 3rd round draft choice. But that's not a big enough need? If you say so.
If you swap out next year's #2 for a #1, this would be very difficult to pass up. Anyone can be a bust, including the #2 pick. You bring in a haul like that and you can set up your team for a long time.
having a franchise qb covers up a lot of warts
having a franchise qb covers up a lot of warts
You're assuming the Giants see Rosen as a franchise QB. They may. They may not.
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or are we just spit ballin here?
I'm guessing this is just some writer speculating what it would take, nothing more.
IB - ( New Window )
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In comment 13875473 BillT said:
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So, Buffalo is willing to trade a ton of premium picks in two drafts to get the QB that we, somehow, don't want because I guess that's possible but I don't get it.
If they take that trade and Webb isn't a sensation the minute he walk on the field, Gettleman should be fired before Webb walks on the field the next time.
BUffalo has AJ McCarron and nothing else. Other people's desperate need should not dictate what we should do.
And we have a 37 year old QB and a 3rd round draft choice. But that's not a big enough need? If you say so.
Just out of curiosity (morbid perhaps) what order do you have the QB prospects in? Not other teams etc, just your ranking of the top 4 QB prospects.
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#1, then you likely are getting a pick around 12 again.
It would be tough to turn down the deal if it had next year's #1 and a #3.
We don't get a blue-chip guy possibly, but we pick up 6 picks in the first 65, which would go a long way to solidifying holes on the OL, LB and DB.
thats what I"m saying. Just this year the draft value chart (which I know isn't gospel) but the value just from the Bills 2 1's, 1 2nd, and early 3rd...we would be getting 2,615 in value for our 2,200 pick. Consider you need to be blown away because of the QB factor.
Assuming the bills are a bottom half team (15 or worse) which is most likely with AJ Mccarron or a Rookie QB...we would be getting north of 3,600 pts in value for our 2nd overall pick...I think that would at least get us to the table...
whether or not we could haggle even more depends on how desperate they are.
Was re-thinking: the 12,22,53,they keep 56 to soften the impact of losing so many picks that they did have and keep negotiations flowing, but take their 4th, then 1 and 3 in '19, and 3 in '20(might be the 96 or the 65 at worst trade bait). Not dissimilar from the Eli deal in the old formula.
Rams received: #1 overall, 4th round pick, 6th round pick
Titans Received: #15 overall, two 2nd rounds picks (2016), 3rd round pick, 2017 1st round pick, 2017 3rd round pick
Eagles received: #2 overall, 4th round pick
Browns received: #8 overall, 3rd round pick, 4th round pick, 2017 1st round pick, 2018 second round pick
Neither team trading back received more than two first round picks in total and if there is any truth to the offer in the OP (doubtful if IB is the source), it's closer to the Rams-Titans deal if not even stronger:
#12 > #15
#22 > #43
#53 < #45
#65 > #76
2019 2nd < 2017 1st and 3rd
The question when comparing those deals is essentially: is the increased value of selecting 12 and 22 vs 15/43 greater than the value of 2017 1st? If the Giants had the #12 and #22 picks, would you trade them for the #15 and #43 picks + a 1st round pick next year?
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In comment 13875461 Emil said:
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or are we just spit ballin here?
I'm guessing this is just some writer speculating what it would take, nothing more.
IB - ( New Window )
Good Lord, if there is a less reliable source for made up rumors it would be difficult to find one. Incarertaed Bob spews rumors all the time!
Who in their right mind would ever even confide in him?
having a franchise qb covers up a lot of warts
I'm just putting this out there...what if the Giants really like Webb?
Who in their right mind would ever even confide in him?
He's spews NBA rumors with equal ineptness. This thread is fun to think about but has no basis in reality.
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In comment 13875497 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 13875461 Emil said:
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or are we just spit ballin here?
I'm guessing this is just some writer speculating what it would take, nothing more.
IB - ( New Window )
Good Lord, if there is a less reliable source for made up rumors it would be difficult to find one. Incarertaed Bob spews rumors all the time!
LOL! Incarcerated Bob makes shit up 100% of the time and you guys are talking about it like it's an actual offer.
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just stay at 2 and take rosen
having a franchise qb covers up a lot of warts
I'm just putting this out there...what if the Giants really like Webb?
How dare you suggest such a thing. Its preposterous to assume the Giants like Webb. He hasn't played in a game and hasn't practiced with the first team.
More importantly though, they never even scouted him in college. In training camp and all throughout the season, he basically sat in a lawn chair drinking Bahama Mamma's while everyone else was practicing. Never threw a pass. Never received any coaching. They don't know anything about Davis Webb.
If you swap out next year's #2 for a #1, this would be very difficult to pass up. Anyone can be a bust, including the #2 pick. You bring in a haul like that and you can set up your team for a long time.
My only issue with that, is next years draft class is looking like a down year for quarterbacks. I realize things can change in a year, but passing on a possible elite signal caller would be quite haunting.
How do you sell THAT to fans when a) you had holes that could have been filled with the top 64, b) you now need a QB, c) you now need a LT and sold out of the opportunity by dumping you 21 already, and now losing the 22, and waiting to 53 for a LT if you get your QB@2?
IMO you are entering Ditka territory for a QB with little around him and little insight via the drafts.
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In comment 13875509 Brown Recluse said:
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In comment 13875497 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 13875461 Emil said:
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or are we just spit ballin here?
I'm guessing this is just some writer speculating what it would take, nothing more.
IB - ( New Window )
Good Lord, if there is a less reliable source for made up rumors it would be difficult to find one. Incarertaed Bob spews rumors all the time!
LOL! Incarcerated Bob makes shit up 100% of the time and you guys are talking about it like it's an actual offer.
For sure, Incarcerated Bob trolls the NBA and NFL forums all the time with his made-up BS on twitter.
having a franchise qb covers up a lot of warts
Have you been watching the Giants last 6 years? They've had a franchise QB and a team of warts, it doesn't cover up any thing.
sounds very similar to the rumor that our friend Daddy M mentioned last week, what's that saying about smoke?
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In comment 13875504 jintz4life said:
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just stay at 2 and take rosen
having a franchise qb covers up a lot of warts
I'm just putting this out there...what if the Giants really like Webb?
How dare you suggest such a thing. Its preposterous to assume the Giants like Webb. He hasn't played in a game and hasn't practiced with the first team.
More importantly though, they never even scouted him in college. In training camp and all throughout the season, he basically sat in a lawn chair drinking Bahama Mamma's while everyone else was practicing. Never threw a pass. Never received any coaching. They don't know anything about Davis Webb.
what great about the NFL draft everyone has grades for everyone. SO DG and Shurmur graded out Webb last year and probably got reports about him this year...so they have plenty of knowledge on Webb.
If they believe Webb will be a good quality QB (Barkley or a trade down possibility are def in the cards)
1. lets say DG and shurmurs grade on Webb is not far enough away from Darnold/Rosen.
2. lets say Barkley is the #1 rated player on there board (but considering the value in the league on RB's that high and longevity the giants aren't opposed to making a trade to a QB starving team like the bills to reap a lot of benifits
Ok so now we make the trade with the Bills. Lets says a reasonable offer is 12/22/53/65 and a 2019 1st rounder for the #2 pick and lets say a 5th round pick from the Giants.
So now the top of the draft looks like Browns/Bills/Jets
So we can assume in some order Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Mayfield will probably go in the top 5 or 6 picks
Add in Barkley and Chubb and that rounds out the top 6 most likely.
Now add in Quenton Nelson into that mix (that is prob your top 7).
If the giants are picking 12 (what top 5 guys would you rate for the giants).
I gotta think edmunds/smith/fitzpatrick might round out top 10.
So lets say the Giants draft: one of the CB's projected in that range Ward/Alexander/Jackson
plus Wynn or Hernandez with pick #22
Would you rather have Ward along with Wynn/Hernandez + 2 other day two picks + a 2019 1st or would you rather have Barkley?
Lets also put more names to the mix...lets say the giants select Billy Price with our early 2nd and Ronald Jones with the 53 pick from Buffalo.
Would you rather have Ward + Wynn/Hernandez + Billy Price + Ronald Jones + the first pick in the 3rd round and an additional 1st round pick in 2019.
When you look at it like that how in the word do you not make that trade if we aren't planning on drafting a QB. As much as I love Barkley...we fix the O-line with this draft + get a really good corner + get a good young RB...plus have the 2019 bills 1st rounder in our back pocket.
What multiple sources?
This, for me.
I think I'd be satisfied.
I still would like the Giants to draft Barkley at #2. But if this trade went down, I would still be excited. That's a lot of potential football talent walking through the door in Jersey.
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thinks IB is credible, but at some point it's difficult to ignore the same rumor when it's coming from multiple sources.
What multiple sources?
If you google it, its been floating around in the news for well over a month.
It's like evaluating a QB today through the lens of whether he can play in a run and shoot.
As for that trade, I'd do it as is but if that 2019 2nd becomes a 1st you RUN to the fax machine to get that in to the league office. Don't be dumb first and second round picks are gold. Even if you hit on 2 first rounders and 1 second rounder out of that deal you have killed the draft.
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thinks IB is credible, but at some point it's difficult to ignore the same rumor when it's coming from multiple sources.
What multiple sources?
DaddyM89? I also think some major news outlets have been speculating about a possible Giants Bills trade for weeks. But it wouldn't surprise me if it's all nothing, or just a brief inquiry that everyone blew out of proportion.
...one of its second-rounders this year.
But next year they gotta give us their #1. A second rounder in 2019 just doesn't cut it.
Why? We don't gotta let them keep anything. Want to trade up for a QB? Pay up.
But my spidey sense says the Giants are not going to draft a QB there.
If not, and you get offered that deal (with another #1), I would trade down.
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ALL THAT SAID, I would not make a trade until I'm on the clock. Sweat everyone out.
But my spidey sense says the Giants are not going to draft a QB there.
If not, and you get offered that deal (with another #1), I would trade down.
********
ALL THAT SAID, I would not make a trade until I'm on the clock. Sweat everyone out.
I agree with this. it makes no sense to trade now. No advantage from it.
If you cant find what trade you want, take Barkley or a stud QB.
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just stay at 2 and take rosen
having a franchise qb covers up a lot of warts
You're assuming the Giants see Rosen as a franchise QB. They may. They may not.
My exact comment! Why do we absolutely assume that Rosen is a franchise QB? There are many different opinions from professionals about him.
But my spidey sense says the Giants are not going to draft a QB there.
If not, and you get offered that deal (with another #1), I would trade down.
********
ALL THAT SAID, I would not make a trade until I'm on the clock. Sweat everyone out.
Need to make it sooner if the Giants want to trade back UP after the deal. Anywhere in the top 8 would be fine.
But my spidey sense says the Giants are not going to draft a QB there.
If not, and you get offered that deal (with another #1), I would trade down.
********
ALL THAT SAID, I would not make a trade until I'm on the clock. Sweat everyone out.
What if you wait too long and the proposing team moves on to someone else?
We will take the 6th pick and their three, 2nds.
1. lets say DG and shurmurs grade on Webb is not far enough away from Darnold/Rosen.
2. lets say Barkley is the #1 rated player on there board (but considering the value in the league on RB's that high and longevity the giants aren't opposed to making a trade to a QB starving team like the bills to reap a lot of benifits
Ok so now we make the trade with the Bills. Lets says a reasonable offer is 12/22/53/65 and a 2019 1st rounder for the #2 pick and lets say a 5th round pick from the Giants.
So now the top of the draft looks like Browns/Bills/Jets
So we can assume in some order Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Mayfield will probably go in the top 5 or 6 picks
Add in Barkley and Chubb and that rounds out the top 6 most likely.
Now add in Quenton Nelson into that mix (that is prob your top 7).
If the giants are picking 12 (what top 5 guys would you rate for the giants).
I gotta think edmunds/smith/fitzpatrick might round out top 10.
So lets say the Giants draft: one of the CB's projected in that range Ward/Alexander/Jackson
plus Wynn or Hernandez with pick #22
Would you rather have Ward along with Wynn/Hernandez + 2 other day two picks + a 2019 1st or would you rather have Barkley?
Lets also put more names to the mix...lets say the giants select Billy Price with our early 2nd and Ronald Jones with the 53 pick from Buffalo.
Would you rather have Ward + Wynn/Hernandez + Billy Price + Ronald Jones + the first pick in the 3rd round and an additional 1st round pick in 2019.
When you look at it like that how in the word do you not make that trade if we aren't planning on drafting a QB. As much as I love Barkley...we fix the O-line with this draft + get a really good corner + get a good young RB...plus have the 2019 bills 1st rounder in our back pocket.
Great post. Thought provoking.
They would have to add another first to even make it plausible.
1. lets say DG and shurmurs grade on Webb is not far enough away from Darnold/Rosen.
2. lets say Barkley is the #1 rated player on there board (but considering the value in the league on RB's that high and longevity the giants aren't opposed to making a trade to a QB starving team like the bills to reap a lot of benifits
Ok so now we make the trade with the Bills. Lets says a reasonable offer is 12/22/53/65 and a 2019 1st rounder for the #2 pick and lets say a 5th round pick from the Giants.
So now the top of the draft looks like Browns/Bills/Jets
So we can assume in some order Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Mayfield will probably go in the top 5 or 6 picks
Add in Barkley and Chubb and that rounds out the top 6 most likely.
Now add in Quenton Nelson into that mix (that is prob your top 7).
If the giants are picking 12 (what top 5 guys would you rate for the giants).
I gotta think edmunds/smith/fitzpatrick might round out top 10.
So lets say the Giants draft: one of the CB's projected in that range Ward/Alexander/Jackson
plus Wynn or Hernandez with pick #22
Would you rather have Ward along with Wynn/Hernandez + 2 other day two picks + a 2019 1st or would you rather have Barkley?
Lets also put more names to the mix...lets say the giants select Billy Price with our early 2nd and Ronald Jones with the 53 pick from Buffalo.
Would you rather have Ward + Wynn/Hernandez + Billy Price + Ronald Jones + the first pick in the 3rd round and an additional 1st round pick in 2019.
When you look at it like that how in the word do you not make that trade if we aren't planning on drafting a QB. As much as I love Barkley...we fix the O-line with this draft + get a really good corner + get a good young RB...plus have the 2019 bills 1st rounder in our back pocket.
Solid post.