I mean legit Pro Bowl level AND they draft a QB this year? $6.2M dead cap hit if cut (not too terrible) and trading him is difficult with a NTC. Green Bay managed to pull off the extended passing of the torch, although it can be argued that they blew a SB opportunity in 2007 not having AR at the helm. Here’s to hoping Eli makes this decision just a little bit harder than expected
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some of the same people on this thread used to go out of their way to bash Eli's play during the 00s. Now they can't wait to question his worth heading into 2018.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
It honestly could be a case study for a psychology class. With regards to Eli, I 100% believe there are actual Giant fans who would rather see him play bad then the team win. There is no doubt in my mind given the utter nonsense posted daily on BBI
All signs are pointing to, at the very least, one more top level Guard being added to this OL in the draft. Along with Solder and Omameh, there is a good chance 4 out of the 5 OL spots could be upgraded from last year if Flowers/Biz/someone else is better than Hart at RT.
That alone is enough ammo to provide Eli with a CHANCE to succeed this year. It is laughable that anybody thinks that Eli should have succeeded the past couple of years given the targets available, OL, and RB situation. Its the same reason Elite quarterbacks like Andrew Luck (2016), Matt Ryan(last year), Derek Carr last year), Russell Wilson(2016) and Rivers(2016) look so good one year and so bad another. There are maybe 2 QBs in the ENTIRE LEAGUE that are good enough to take a team in shambles around them and make them better. Heck, even Rodgers cant do it every year because he got killed behind a bad OL.
All of the people that believe in Eli just want to see him given a fair chance to succeed. Rest assured, if he fails again, 75% of this board will be yelling from the mountain tops that they told you so.
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In comment 13875845 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 13875697 Britt in VA said:
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
We were 3-13 last year and we have already got rid of 3 OL, possibly 4. We had UDFA playing a ton of snaps at skill positions. We lost OBJ for the majority of the year. We lost Marshall for the majority of the year. SS was banged up for a lot of games. The defense was just dyfunctional.
We are not fielding the same team this year. There were a lot of awful players on the team last year and some of them are getting passes and 2nd chances.
That is all true. It also might be true that Eli is done. I don't know and neither does anyone. The only way anyone will be satisfied is we we give Eli, a good offensive scheme and coach, a solid OL and a quality running game. Who would not succeed with that? Dak Prescott looked amazing with that. The career Journeyman looked great with the Jets with less than that. All I know is that with timing of everything, including Eli's age and because we did not play Webb, I think it would be gross negligence on the part of management not to take a QB at 2 unless they are convinced none of them are worth anywhere near the number 2 pick. Otherwise take the damn QB and we can all root for Eli until proves he can't do it anymore.
I agree with this guy... I actually think the Gmen are lucky to have quality prospects like Rosen/Darnold and even a tools rich guy like Allan available to them in a year where all these things came about
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In comment 13875754 djm said:
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some of the same people on this thread used to go out of their way to bash Eli's play during the 00s. Now they can't wait to question his worth heading into 2018.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
It honestly could be a case study for a psychology class. With regards to Eli, I 100% believe there are actual Giant fans who would rather see him play bad then the team win. There is no doubt in my mind given the utter nonsense posted daily on BBI
This post is nonsense. We are all Giants fans here, and we just want to win. Just because some of us think it is time to move on from Eli does not mean we want to see him fail. That is pure garbage.
I’m not saying all, but there definitely are a few. You’ve been on here for 4 years go review years prior to that, especially the SB years and then get back to me
They never were to begin with.
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That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
IT WAS THE SECOND GAME OF THE SEASON!
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In comment 13875706 GoBlue6599 said:
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That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
IT WAS THE SECOND GAME OF THE SEASON!
Even I pointed that one out.... haha
Seconded.
While I do think Eli will play better in 2018 I want an elite young qb brought in. It’s time to think about tomorrow and beyond. There are so many advantages to having a long term qb in place and even more when he’s cost controlled.
Sort of makes the OP's argument...
All of the people that believe in Eli just want to see him given a fair chance to succeed.
What in sweet Moses does "fair chance to succeed" mean?
What more does Jints Central have to do to demonstrate they have bent over backwards to afford him that chance?
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All of the people that believe in Eli just want to see him given a fair chance to succeed.
What in sweet Moses does "fair chance to succeed" mean?
What more does Jints Central have to do to demonstrate they have bent over backwards to afford him that chance?
Just because you have done something doesn’t mean you have done it well.
Sort of makes the OP's argument...
Yes because that is exactly what I said right? That one embarrassing sack is evidence. That was solely related to my point that he is shell shocked. I have stated many times his play the last two years is evidence he is in major decline.
At least you didn't tell me to go root for the Eagles.
And this goes both ways. It certainly isn't limited to the pro-Eli people.
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In comment 13875706 GoBlue6599 said:
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That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
IT WAS THE SECOND GAME OF THE SEASON!
Doesnt matter if it was the 2nd or 10th. Business decisions like that are what has allowed Eli to make it 14 years in this league without any major injuries. I will take that trade-off.
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and scheme was and we are talking about a single sack as "embarrassing" proof he is done...
Sort of makes the OP's argument...
Yes because that is exactly what I said right? That one embarrassing sack is evidence. That was solely related to my point that he is shell shocked. I have stated many times his play the last two years is evidence he is in major decline.
At least you didn't tell me to go root for the Eagles.
Oh shit thanks for reminding me go root for the fucking eagles..
And this goes both ways. It certainly isn't limited to the pro-Eli people.
Ya got that right.
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In comment 13875731 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13875706 GoBlue6599 said:
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That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
IT WAS THE SECOND GAME OF THE SEASON!
Doesnt matter if it was the 2nd or 10th. Business decisions like that are what has allowed Eli to make it 14 years in this league without any major injuries. I will take that trade-off.
And also had him throw many a bad throw and INT.
If another QB had made a 'business decision' like that he'd be getting crushed. See the Cam gif above.
Cam Newton deserves way more grief for that play than he actually got. It is, possibly, the worst play in the history of the NFL and I don't think he could live it down if he threw for 100,000 yards and 500 touchdowns for his career. If I owned the Panthers that would have been his last game in that uniform.
Now I think there's a strong chance Eli is done and I think we should move on from him...but next to Eli, Cam ain't shit.
Cam Newton deserves way more grief for that play than he actually got. It is, possibly, the worst play in the history of the NFL and I don't think he could live it down if he threw for 100,000 yards and 500 touchdowns for his career. If I owned the Panthers that would have been his last game in that uniform.
Now I think there's a strong chance Eli is done and I think we should move on from him...but next to Eli, Cam ain't shit.
Ok...you have a right to that opinion... and I'm not even going to argue with you about it.
Still doesn't make Eli's 'Business decision' look good or be acceptable.
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In comment 13876215 JCin332 said:
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and scheme was and we are talking about a single sack as "embarrassing" proof he is done...
Sort of makes the OP's argument...
Yes because that is exactly what I said right? That one embarrassing sack is evidence. That was solely related to my point that he is shell shocked. I have stated many times his play the last two years is evidence he is in major decline.
At least you didn't tell me to go root for the Eagles.
Oh shit thanks for reminding me go root for the fucking eagles..
There he is! :)
Even IF Eli is better than average still and held down by the helpless Giants and their management and lack of talent.....a dubious claim at best in my opinion.....
They won’t magically improve enough this offseason for him to have a pro bowl season. I don’t know if Eli would have a pro bowl season on the current Eagles or Falcons or Pittsburgh offense......I do agree we don’t know quite how much he had left but it’s pretty clear it’s no better than average and probably somewhere between 18-25.
But let’s assume a miracle outlier........and he surprises us pleasantly and makes a pro bowl(which in today’s nfl required a 3-1 dt int ratio and 4400+ yards)......
In fact, Simms had a pro bowl season in 93 but the team saw no reason to invest in an older player. Probably the same here in particular if Darnold or Rosen is here.
If that were the case basing it off one year..... The Titans should worry abbout Mariota, the Bucs with Winston, hell even the Falcons and Ryan since he dropped off the face of the earth last year with a pedestrian year last year.
I know many people want to see Eli gone and new blood in, but lets see what he can do with a coach and GM who are still viewed as productive members of the NFL.
It didnt seem like Reese and McAdoo were in high demand this offseason, were they?
But his qbr has been in the rank I mentioned at least three of the last five years if not worse. Of course to take it with a grain of salt but that’s something to consider.
And he did have several 1 year blips of poor play before like 2013 but the circumstances of course dictated giving him another look.
Eli is old and he will get a chance with a new staff and system and I have zero issue with it-no harm in playing him next year until the team is out of playoff contention. But the idea he is going to play like a pro bowler is a bit of a reach and would be a surprise to me and many here.
The whole reasoning behind changing offensive schemes was to get more from Eli after his awful 2012 and 2013 seasons.
But to answer the OP, lets say Eli has a wonderful year. You want to extend him? I don't. I want to move on.
If they choose to go with Eli this year and it looks like that is the plan, expect another bad year for the team. Much like this past year. We are treading water.
Hope next years draft is loaded because we will be in the front of the line
But his qbr has been in the rank I mentioned at least three of the last five years if not worse. Of course to take it with a grain of salt but that’s something to consider.
And he did have several 1 year blips of poor play before like 2013 but the circumstances of course dictated giving him another look.
Eli is old and he will get a chance with a new staff and system and I have zero issue with it-no harm in playing him next year until the team is out of playoff contention. But the idea he is going to play like a pro bowler is a bit of a reach and would be a surprise to me and many here.
Fair points.
And like I said here, even as Eli's biggest fan, I am a huge fan of drafting a QB number 2. Whether he is MVP or the worst QB in the league.
All I will say is this. I dont know how good or bad Eli is right now. I know people hate excuses so lets just say this. He has a new coach. He has a new OLine. And hopefully his WRs are 100% going into the year. Also, the team should have a new attitude as well.
Lets see how Eli does. Whenever people count him out, he steps up and performs well. If he plays great out of the gate - then perfect, roll with him. If he struggles and the team does too - then it will be time to start someone else. But I know people hate the phrases like one more chance or clean slate - but with all the turmoil of the last 18 months in the orgnization, he is a stablizing force that derseves one last chance to show he can play in the league.
Any offense in which Odell Beckham is catching the majority of the passes for at least 16 games.
I’ve seen people not say that verbatim but pretty close. Jeff hostetler today would succeed with that set up😀
I do think Shurmur will put the best offense to tailor to Eli. And yes that involves a lot of targets to beckham.
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what type of Offense is best suited for Eli to be successful in 2018?
Any offense in which Odell Beckham is catching the majority of the passes for at least 16 games.
How about one that can actually run the ball at a respectable level? There's a start.
Oh right, I forgot, the Giants bent over backwards to give Eli a chance to succeed!! They gave him one great WR and a whole bunch of absolute garbage. Worst running game in the NFL? Check. No second WR worth shit? Check. The worst TEs in all of football up until last year and even then Micky mouse didn't play Eillison? Check.
Run the ball. Watch Eli win.
Matt Ryan has a losing record in the last 5 years...
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and an offensive line, what QB isn't going win? If those are the conditions he needs to be better than mediocre then you could just as easily swap him out for Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins and watch them win.
Matt Ryan has a losing record in the last 5 years...
And he is 95-65 over his 10 year career....so where are you going with this...
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In comment 13877730 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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and an offensive line, what QB isn't going win? If those are the conditions he needs to be better than mediocre then you could just as easily swap him out for Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins and watch them win.
Matt Ryan has a losing record in the last 5 years...
And he is 95-65 over his 10 year career....so where are you going with this...
He's actually 95-63, but you think that's impressive? He'll have to win 16 more games and lose 40 more before he's considered a really good QB, obviously.
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In comment 13877730 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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and an offensive line, what QB isn't going win? If those are the conditions he needs to be better than mediocre then you could just as easily swap him out for Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins and watch them win.
Matt Ryan has a losing record in the last 5 years...
And he is 95-65 over his 10 year career....so where are you going with this...
Ever see Ryan’s post season #s? Since being subpar in his first three playoff appearances, he’s really flourished his last three. Very impressive...
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In comment 13877778 dep026 said:
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In comment 13877730 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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and an offensive line, what QB isn't going win? If those are the conditions he needs to be better than mediocre then you could just as easily swap him out for Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins and watch them win.
Matt Ryan has a losing record in the last 5 years...
And he is 95-65 over his 10 year career....so where are you going with this...
He's actually 95-63, but you think that's impressive? He'll have to win 16 more games and lose 40 more before he's considered a really good QB, obviously.
Haha. I see what you did there. Exactly. If only he could achieve Manning's overwhelmingly mediocre career record he might get some respect.
The whole reasoning behind changing offensive schemes was to get more from Eli after his awful 2012 and 2013 seasons.
No it wasn't... It was designed to try and get something despite a putrid offensive line.
Hey Eli, yeah we know you are getting killed back there since 2012, and we have no plan to fix the line, so lets just throw the ball sooner...
Plays may not have a chance to develop, and since they know you are going to throw it quick, they are going to crowd in on the receivers, but just get rid of it... Something is bound to happen...
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what type of Offense is best suited for Eli to be successful in 2018?
Any offense in which Odell Beckham is catching the majority of the passes for at least 16 games.
And sports at least an average offensive line.
Glad to see you agree with me that Simms was clearly better than Montana ... anybody could have played QB on those San Fran teams and been deemed “great” ... the firepower was other worldly.
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and an offensive line, what QB isn't going win? If those are the conditions he needs to be better than mediocre then you could just as easily swap him out for Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins and watch them win.
Glad to see you agree with me that Simms was clearly better than Montana ... anybody could have played QB on those San Fran teams and been deemed “great” ... the firepower was other worldly.
Don’t know if you are being facetious but to suggest Montana was all system and no skill is as dumb as it gets...
Just yet another reason why he cannot hold a candle to Eli...