I mean legit Pro Bowl level AND they draft a QB this year? $6.2M dead cap hit if cut (not too terrible) and trading him is difficult with a NTC. Green Bay managed to pull off the extended passing of the torch, although it can be argued that they blew a SB opportunity in 2007 not having AR at the helm. Here’s to hoping Eli makes this decision just a little bit harder than expected
Now come April 26....who knows?
There will be zero unhappy people if Eli plays really well. There will be some very surprised people, that's all.
Stated without a hint of irony from the poster who posits that every player on the Giants roster is terrible.
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unhappy people here on BBI.
There will be zero unhappy people if Eli plays really well. There will be some very surprised people, that's all.
Actually there would be some. Or deflect his success onto guys like OBJ, EE, or SS for making him look better than he really is. I am not saying you or guys who think Eli is done.... but there are a handful of posters here who enjoy when Eli fails.
** empirical **
That’s just crap and you know it. The very idea that you would post that is just yet another tell-tale sign of how many uneducated fans we have on BBI.
If you cannot discern the difference between what many expect to happen with Eli and wish would happen you are simple clueless.
Case closed...
No, he'll still age like a normal human being does.
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unhappy people here on BBI.
There will be zero unhappy people if Eli plays really well. There will be some very surprised people, that's all.
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Giants QB for a lot longer than two more years regardless of how he plays.
No, he'll still age like a normal human being does.
I said, "regardless of how he [Mannning] plays."
If the Giants don't pull the trigger on a QB this year and leave some 3rd round QB as Manning's only competition, Manning likely will be able to outplay a 3rd round QB when he's 50.
People are dreaming if they believe Webb will be the next Giants QB to play in the SB. The odds of that happening are literally astronomical. The odds of one of this year's top QBs going to the SB for the Giants are 1000x better.
My point isn't that the Giants should draft a QB. My point is that Webb is simply some random 3rd round QB - and the number of 3rd round QBs who "made it" compared to those who have "come and gone" are light years apart. He has yet to play in the NFL. As such he is literally nothing more than a random 3rd round pick. Eli Manning - when he is 50 - will be able to outplay the overwhelming majority of 3rd round QBs who have every played the game - and that almost certainly includes Davis Webb. {And I am only being slightly facetious when I talk about Manning at 50}.
So, it will be very interesting to see what happens with the QB position if the Giants don't draft Manning's real replacement.
Those are facts. It doesn’t mean you are lumped into it.... but if you can’t see a few posters who hate Eli then I don’t know what to tell you.
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unhappy people here on BBI.
That’s just crap and you know it. The very idea that you would post that is just yet another tell-tale sign of how many uneducated fans we have on BBI.
If you cannot discern the difference between what many expect to happen with Eli and wish would happen you are simple clueless.
And calling many BBI here uneducated is a limb you shouldn’t go out on.
How to determine success for the average fan like many of us here are is the question mark. Is 4,000 yards the bar? 30 TDS?, 12 INTs? Playoffs? Judging ones success is a very hard thing to do anymore.
There’s a reason for that.
Those are facts. It doesn’t mean you are lumped into it.... but if you can’t see a few posters who hate Eli then I don’t know what to tell you.
Give me the list...
Those are facts. It doesn’t mean you are lumped into it.... but if you can’t see a few posters who hate Eli then I don’t know what to tell you.
That's total nonsense and it's total nonsense people would be unhappy if he played well.
There are plenty of fans of the team that think he's overrated. There are plenty of fans who think the defense was much more of a factor in the 2 championships. There are people who think it's pretty shady he got himself tangled up with the dipshit equipment guy to rip people off.
But hate? Lol - you should take a second look at what fact means.
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There are posters here who still shit on Eli for how he played in the Super Bowls. I didn’t say many, a lot, or most. There are posters here who hate Eli. Him having success is something they do not enjoy.
Those are facts. It doesn’t mean you are lumped into it.... but if you can’t see a few posters who hate Eli then I don’t know what to tell you.
Give me the list...
I don’t wanna call out posters anymore. I’m trying to stick around awhile. Haha
That's total nonsense and it's total nonsense people would be unhappy if he played well.
There are plenty of fans of the team that think he's overrated. There are plenty of fans who think the defense was much more of a factor in the 2 championships. There are people who think it's pretty shady he got himself tangled up with the dipshit equipment guy to rip people off.
But hate? Lol - you should take a second look at what fact means.
It may be rare, but the guy who called for a serious head injury would qualify as someone with an irrational hatred.
And sure, you can point to the defense in 2007, but 2011? I'm not sure the 31st ranked defense carried us to a championship. Eli threw the team on his back that year, and it is fans who cannot appreciate that fact that frustrate those of us appreciative of what Eli has meant to the franchise.
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There are posters here who still shit on Eli for how he played in the Super Bowls. I didn’t say many, a lot, or most. There are posters here who hate Eli. Him having success is something they do not enjoy.
Those are facts. It doesn’t mean you are lumped into it.... but if you can’t see a few posters who hate Eli then I don’t know what to tell you.
That's total nonsense and it's total nonsense people would be unhappy if he played well.
There are plenty of fans of the team that think he's overrated. There are plenty of fans who think the defense was much more of a factor in the 2 championships. There are people who think it's pretty shady he got himself tangled up with the dipshit equipment guy to rip people off.
But hate? Lol - you should take a second look at what fact means.
I’ve learned that people who wish bodily harm to a player from their own team tend not to like that player. Trust me, it was said many times here when I read threads and couldn’t respond.
I am not saying these posters are are regular or quality posters but they are here.
How to determine success for the average fan like many of us here are is the question mark. Is 4,000 yards the bar? 30 TDS?, 12 INTs? Playoffs? Judging ones success is a very hard thing to do anymore.
It’s not hard and it’s not tied to stats. It’s showing that he can still be value-add to the team winning games in the 4qtr, whether we have the lead or not. Something we haven’t seen in several years...
Dragon had hoped that Eli suffered a broken neck. It was reported to the mods and they responded that they understand why it would upset others. But they didn't delete the comment and it exists on BBI servers. By allowing it to remain on their servers, they are condoning such hateful speech.
Dragon's Hateful Speech - ( New Window )
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Is we have a chance going into this year with a 2x SB QB. A new coaching staff and the chance to draft his predecessor. I think it’s vitalnfor the team and the rookie to see Eli have success.
How to determine success for the average fan like many of us here are is the question mark. Is 4,000 yards the bar? 30 TDS?, 12 INTs? Playoffs? Judging ones success is a very hard thing to do anymore.
It’s not hard and it’s not tied to stats. It’s showing that he can still be value-add to the team winning games in the 4qtr, whether we have the lead or not. Something we haven’t seen in several years...
A lot of team factors go into what you just said. We were 11-5 two years ago. We sucked last year. Everyone not named snacks Harrison did.
It’s weird when the team wins, the play of QB changes outside here. Blake bottles, Tyrod Taylor, and Marcus Mariota had less than average years yet one was traded for a 3rd rounder, one got an extension, and the other is considered a franchise QB.
Just weird to me.
Dragon : 12/4/2017 8:55 pm : link
Hope he has a good insurance plan neck will hopefully get broken this weekend before halftime.
It’s not hard and it’s not tied to stats. It’s showing that he can still be value-add to the team winning games in the 4qtr, whether we have the lead or not. Something we haven’t seen in several years...
That's fair, but he did QB an 11-win team only 2 years ago. They were far from an offensive juggernaut, but that would have been tough, given the offense consisted of "throw a slant to Odell and hope he takes it to the house".
Dragon had hoped that Eli suffered a broken neck. It was reported to the mods and they responded that they understand why it would upset others. But they didn't delete the comment and it exists on BBI servers. By allowing it to remain on their servers, they are condoning such hateful speech. Dragon's Hateful Speech - ( New Window )
Thanks Diver, that was the quote I was slightly misremembering. And the mods wonder why so many posters are frustrated with how they handle banned accounts. I'm not in favor of calling for posters to be banned, but if a poster is to be banned, that would be reason #1.
That’s asking a lot for a 37 year old to be in that company. The NFC is loaded with excellent QB play...
And I’m sure he’s motivated to rebound. Which could lead to a decent season.
But t wouldn’t change the dynamic that’s he an old QB getting even older. And the odds still say the end is near; and there needs to be a good answer to transition to the future. Fortunately, if Jints Central plays their cards right they can find the right solution now...
If you told me it was 2011 then I would stipulate...
That’s asking a lot for a 37 year old to be in that company. The NFC is loaded with excellent QB play...
One of the QB's you mentioned will be 39, so...
If you told me it was 2011 then I would stipulate...
Well you did stipulate whether they had the lead or not, so he didn't cost his team those games. Like I said, the offense was far from a juggernaut, but many of us believe it was the offense itself that was to blame. No OL, no running game, and terrible passing game planning.
But lets put it this way. Many posters here consider a 26 TD and 16 INT with over 4,000 yards a "bad year". And for Eli it wasnt his best year - but many QBs would take that year.
Guess we'll see.
Are you suggesting that Eli had the pieces to have effective offenses the last 2 years? Did we underachieve in 2016? Should we have been a playoff team last year?
I hope he proves us all again what he capable of doing.
What if he plays worse than last year and we took a guard at 2?
? That explains why both of them have been awarded MVP of the entire NFL in the past.
What if he plays worse than last year and we took a guard at 2?
Is having a solid offensive line really going to hurt whomever the next QB is?
But to suggest that anyone knows for sure that he is done or that he is a pro bowl player is silly, IMO. Did anyone think Case Keenum could be a playoff QB and put up pretty good numbers coming into last year? Of course not. He went in as basically a 3rd string QB.
Yes, Eli is older. He is 37. So to expect him to play like he is 27 is unrealistic and will not happen. Maybe he is gun shy. Maybe he has the willies of fear of being hit. No one is suggesting that he isnt. Confidence is a crazy thing. You can carry it for long stretches and lose it with one big hit or one bad game.
But Eli deserves the chance to make it happen this year. Whether he does it or not, well we will have to wait and see. I doubt anyone is questioning his drive or work ethic. Why dont we wait til the season starts and see a healthy OBJ, EE, and SS with a new and improved OLine (hopefully), a new HC, and a new DC giving new life to the team before we judge.
Hell, maybe he will throw 5 TDs and 400 yards at Dallas opening week (we all know its happening) and many of us, imcluding me will crown him league MVP, only for him to come back with a 220 yard 1 TD and 3 TO game against someone else.
Passing judgement in March just seems silly to me.
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are so massively overrated, its criminal they are mentioned with the best QBs in the game.
? That explains why both of them have been awarded MVP of the entire NFL in the past.
ok, and whats your point? I would take 10-12 QBs over both of them and not even think twice. Stat driven league doesnt ensure success.
I will tell you this much, if a guy like Rivers, Luck, Stafford played with the talent the Falcons have had for their entire careers - they would be talked about in the realms of Rodgers and Brady.
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to the point he’s pro bowl level - as suggested. That would mean he’s right there with Brees, Wentz, Wilson, Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, Goff, etc. Does anyone really think that’s rational?
That’s asking a lot for a 37 year old to be in that company. The NFC is loaded with excellent QB play...
One of the QB's you mentioned will be 39, so...
So?
Do you want to attempt to put Eli in the same category as Brees? I'm certainly interested in that battle...
So?
Do you want to attempt to put Eli in the same category as Brees? I'm certainly interested in that battle...
No I'm not, but you brought up age as a deterring factor. It is, but Brees, Brady and to a lesser extent Ben and Rivers are examples of guys who are playing well at that age. I don't think it's the hurdle you're making it out to be.
I don't hate him. I see a rare opportunity to pick a QB to lead this team for the next 15 years. I also see teams frantically trying to move up to take these guys. I think that those that want to draft a guard or RB are just clinging on to Eli for as long as possible. I understand it, but it doesn't mean Eli is going to magically revert to his prime years and be great.
Massively overrated? Uh - no.
Overrated? Newton is to a degree. But he's an incredible athlete and closer to his prime than Eli. So it's reasonable to conclude he will have a pro bowl caliber season before Eli. and that was the point - who could be a pro bowl player this upcoming season...
I don't know who overrates Ryan. He's a very good QB who is only 32 and has been a better regular season QB than Eli over his career.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
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are so massively overrated, its criminal they are mentioned with the best QBs in the game.
Massively overrated? Uh - no.
Overrated? Newton is to a degree. But he's an incredible athlete and closer to his prime than Eli. So it's reasonable to conclude he will have a pro bowl caliber season before Eli. and that was the point - who could be a pro bowl player this upcoming season...
I don't know who overrates Ryan. He's a very good QB who is only 32 and has been a better regular season QB than Eli over his career.
Yes, they are massively overrated. If you think Matt Ryan has been better than Eli Manning, even in the regular season - it kind of proves my point. People just look at stats - and say "look at his stats, he has been very good". Factoring in personel, where they play, and the results that have come about..... are rarely things that are considered.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pretty much my exact view.
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That's total nonsense and it's total nonsense people would be unhappy if he played well.
There are plenty of fans of the team that think he's overrated. There are plenty of fans who think the defense was much more of a factor in the 2 championships. There are people who think it's pretty shady he got himself tangled up with the dipshit equipment guy to rip people off.
But hate? Lol - you should take a second look at what fact means.
It may be rare, but the guy who called for a serious head injury would qualify as someone with an irrational hatred.
And sure, you can point to the defense in 2007, but 2011? I'm not sure the 31st ranked defense carried us to a championship. Eli threw the team on his back that year, and it is fans who cannot appreciate that fact that frustrate those of us appreciative of what Eli has meant to the franchise.
I'm pretty sure they were the 31st ranked defense in 2012, not 2011. But the defense was still mediocre in 2011, so your point is valid.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
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In comment 13875549 dep026 said:
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are so massively overrated, its criminal they are mentioned with the best QBs in the game.
Massively overrated? Uh - no.
Overrated? Newton is to a degree. But he's an incredible athlete and closer to his prime than Eli. So it's reasonable to conclude he will have a pro bowl caliber season before Eli. and that was the point - who could be a pro bowl player this upcoming season...
I don't know who overrates Ryan. He's a very good QB who is only 32 and has been a better regular season QB than Eli over his career.
Yes, they are massively overrated. If you think Matt Ryan has been better than Eli Manning, even in the regular season - it kind of proves my point. People just look at stats - and say "look at his stats, he has been very good". Factoring in personel, where they play, and the results that have come about..... are rarely things that are considered.
Why wouldn't I look at stats to compare Eli's and Ryan's regular seasons? They certainly have enough data to make the comparison. And Ryan has been better. Do you want to get into things like playing in a dome? Or who had better coaching? Or who had better surrounding talent? All that type stuff is in play, just let me know how you want to judge it...
And statistically, Ryan's one SB crushed either of Eli's SBs. He just didn't have the good fortune of a helmet catch... ;)
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In comment 13875443 christian said:
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That's total nonsense and it's total nonsense people would be unhappy if he played well.
There are plenty of fans of the team that think he's overrated. There are plenty of fans who think the defense was much more of a factor in the 2 championships. There are people who think it's pretty shady he got himself tangled up with the dipshit equipment guy to rip people off.
But hate? Lol - you should take a second look at what fact means.
It may be rare, but the guy who called for a serious head injury would qualify as someone with an irrational hatred.
And sure, you can point to the defense in 2007, but 2011? I'm not sure the 31st ranked defense carried us to a championship. Eli threw the team on his back that year, and it is fans who cannot appreciate that fact that frustrate those of us appreciative of what Eli has meant to the franchise.
I'm pretty sure they were the 31st ranked defense in 2012, not 2011. But the defense was still mediocre in 2011, so your point is valid.
The general argument I was referring to is that the defense outplayed the offense in both championship games. This is a point guys like KWALL have made regularly.
Totally crushes
30-40 for 296 yards 1 TD and 0 TOs.
19-34 for 255 yards 2 TDs and 1 dropped catch for INT against an 18-0 team.
I mean, are we actually serious about this?
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
And despite the fact that your eyes tell you even now that he can still physically make all the throws, because we're talking about physical decline here (there is no mental decline at 37 years old), you won't acknowledge that maybe McAdoo's horrible scheme that couldn't break 20 points for an NFL record 8 straight games was probably most responsible for that cliff he fell off?
Guys are still playing at a high level at 37 in the NFL. There are multiple examples.
And if you're going to say he mentally declined due to feeling the pass rush or not looking down field, those things are attributed to the scheme/poor line and can be fixed.
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In comment 13875549 dep026 said:
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are so massively overrated, its criminal they are mentioned with the best QBs in the game.
? That explains why both of them have been awarded MVP of the entire NFL in the past.
ok, and whats your point? I would take 10-12 QBs over both of them and not even think twice. Stat driven league doesnt ensure success.
I will tell you this much, if a guy like Rivers, Luck, Stafford played with the talent the Falcons have had for their entire careers - they would be talked about in the realms of Rodgers and Brady.
Your opinion
Here are facts
Matt Ryan and Cam Newton both NFL MVP award winners
Lets hope the Giants take Darnold/Rosen. Eli comes out and plays well and the giants have a good year. If not, let the rookie take over.
I'm pretty sure they were the 31st ranked defense in 2012, not 2011. But the defense was still mediocre in 2011, so your point is valid.
You're right, my bad, 27th ranked defense in 2011.
But Eli's NFL record 7 fourth quarter comebacks, and record breaking 14 4th quarter TD's got us to 9-7, while the defense had a historically bad 4 games stretch where we lost 4 games in a row.
It's all opinion but it's not crazy to believe Matt Ryan is a better Qb then Eli
That's no slight to Eli .. Matt Ryan despite not winning a Sb has had a damn good career
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In comment 13875618 crick n NC said:
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
And despite the fact that your eyes tell you even now that he can still physically make all the throws, because we're talking about physical decline here (there is no mental decline at 37 years old), you won't acknowledge that maybe McAdoo's horrible scheme that couldn't break 20 points for an NFL record 8 straight games was probably most responsible for that cliff he fell off?
Guys are still playing at a high level at 37 in the NFL. There are multiple examples.
And if you're going to say he mentally declined due to feeling the pass rush or not looking down field, those things are attributed to the scheme/poor line and can be fixed.
Just because other QBs are still playing at a high level at 37 doesn't mean he will. No, I do not think he has lost his mental ability to read a defense and audible to better plays when surveying the defense at the line of scrimmage.
But I do see a drop off in his intermediate/deep accuracy. Also yes, I do think he is shell shocked. As I said in a thread yesterday, he got sacked against the Lions this year without even getting touched. It was embarrassing to watch.
You are probably right, him playing in a much better offensive scheme should help, but if the organization puts all of their faith in Eli going forward than I think it is a mistake.
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
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In comment 13875633 NYG07 said:
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In comment 13875618 crick n NC said:
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
And despite the fact that your eyes tell you even now that he can still physically make all the throws, because we're talking about physical decline here (there is no mental decline at 37 years old), you won't acknowledge that maybe McAdoo's horrible scheme that couldn't break 20 points for an NFL record 8 straight games was probably most responsible for that cliff he fell off?
Guys are still playing at a high level at 37 in the NFL. There are multiple examples.
And if you're going to say he mentally declined due to feeling the pass rush or not looking down field, those things are attributed to the scheme/poor line and can be fixed.
Just because other QBs are still playing at a high level at 37 doesn't mean he will. No, I do not think he has lost his mental ability to read a defense and audible to better plays when surveying the defense at the line of scrimmage.
But I do see a drop off in his intermediate/deep accuracy. Also yes, I do think he is shell shocked. As I said in a thread yesterday, he got sacked against the Lions this year without even getting touched. It was embarrassing to watch.
You are probably right, him playing in a much better offensive scheme should help, but if the organization puts all of their faith in Eli going forward than I think it is a mistake.
That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
I won't dispute that. Like I said above, if Eli is great this year then it is great for the Giants, which is all I care about. But they should not mortgage the future and pass on a QB they think can be a franchise guy just for the sake of trying to win a Superbowl with Eli the next year or two.
But Eli's NFL record 7 fourth quarter comebacks, and record breaking 14 4th quarter TD's got us to 9-7, while the defense had a historically bad 4 games stretch where we lost 4 games in a row.
Not trying to suggest that Eli wasn't awesome, he was. Just saw the last post and thought I'd add some reality. Reality is taht we were a middling team all regular season until the defense stepped up(after the Saints game?). The defense was a huge part of that SB run.
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to the point he’s pro bowl level - as suggested. That would mean he’s right there with Brees, Wentz, Wilson, Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, Goff, etc. Does anyone really think that’s rational?
That’s asking a lot for a 37 year old to be in that company. The NFC is loaded with excellent QB play...
One of the QB's you mentioned will be 39, so...
At what point were Drew Brees and Eli ever remotely equivalent?
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In comment 13875661 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13875633 NYG07 said:
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In comment 13875618 crick n NC said:
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
And despite the fact that your eyes tell you even now that he can still physically make all the throws, because we're talking about physical decline here (there is no mental decline at 37 years old), you won't acknowledge that maybe McAdoo's horrible scheme that couldn't break 20 points for an NFL record 8 straight games was probably most responsible for that cliff he fell off?
Guys are still playing at a high level at 37 in the NFL. There are multiple examples.
And if you're going to say he mentally declined due to feeling the pass rush or not looking down field, those things are attributed to the scheme/poor line and can be fixed.
Just because other QBs are still playing at a high level at 37 doesn't mean he will. No, I do not think he has lost his mental ability to read a defense and audible to better plays when surveying the defense at the line of scrimmage.
But I do see a drop off in his intermediate/deep accuracy. Also yes, I do think he is shell shocked. As I said in a thread yesterday, he got sacked against the Lions this year without even getting touched. It was embarrassing to watch.
You are probably right, him playing in a much better offensive scheme should help, but if the organization puts all of their faith in Eli going forward than I think it is a mistake.
That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
I think Eli will play much better in 2018. I can't take 2017 too seriously. Call me crazy, I don't give a shit....last season was the anomaly. He will be somewhere in between 2015 and 2016--and that's good. Maybe even very good.
I thought he fell cause he didnt think he could get the throw off.
He's got happier feet than he's ever had and his mind numbing mistakes that a seasoned pro shouldn't make have never gone away. He doesn't have the arm or athletic ability to make something out of nothing anymore.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
I thought he fell cause he didnt think he could get the throw off.
Well, still a business decision, and that's okay for self preservation. If you're about to get sacked, why take unnecessary punishment.
Please, I could use an extra 20 bucks.
4000 yards and over 22 TDs. How is that for a watermark?
I was so tired seeing the giants run on first, throw a 3 yard pass to a TE on 2nd down, and then throw it short of the marker on 3rd down where we didnt have a WR pass the sticks.
2. His contract is up after the season
He could be MVP in 2018; those things won't change.
2. His contract is up after the season
He could be MVP in 2018; those things won't change.
He has two years left on his contract.
Counterpoint, having a true, proven franchise QB in this league is rare, becoming rarer.
When you have one, you better get all you can out of him before tossing him aside.
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In comment 13875694 NYG07 said:
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In comment 13875661 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13875633 NYG07 said:
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In comment 13875618 crick n NC said:
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
And despite the fact that your eyes tell you even now that he can still physically make all the throws, because we're talking about physical decline here (there is no mental decline at 37 years old), you won't acknowledge that maybe McAdoo's horrible scheme that couldn't break 20 points for an NFL record 8 straight games was probably most responsible for that cliff he fell off?
Guys are still playing at a high level at 37 in the NFL. There are multiple examples.
And if you're going to say he mentally declined due to feeling the pass rush or not looking down field, those things are attributed to the scheme/poor line and can be fixed.
Just because other QBs are still playing at a high level at 37 doesn't mean he will. No, I do not think he has lost his mental ability to read a defense and audible to better plays when surveying the defense at the line of scrimmage.
But I do see a drop off in his intermediate/deep accuracy. Also yes, I do think he is shell shocked. As I said in a thread yesterday, he got sacked against the Lions this year without even getting touched. It was embarrassing to watch.
You are probably right, him playing in a much better offensive scheme should help, but if the organization puts all of their faith in Eli going forward than I think it is a mistake.
That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
That was the 2nd game of the season and honestly Eli just looked old out there .. like he didn't wanna do it anymore,
He was badly outplayed by Matt Stafford
In the regular season - which, to be clear, and to avoid confusion is NOT the playoffs - Ryan has been consistently better than Eli.
Let's look (Eli first):
Completion %s: 59% to 65%
Pet Attmpt: 6.99 to 7.47
TD/INT Ratio: 1.49 to 2.06
QBR: 57 to 69
RAT: 83.5 to 93.4
MVPs 0 to 1
Should I ignore those?
Can always count on you for this. You're doing the lord's work here.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
The question to ask is not necessarily 'will he produce'. It's 'how well'. I've seen people argue that he'd be fine if he just had a better OL, receivers, run game, and coaching.
So would any average QB in ideal conditions. With those things plus coaching Case Keenum suddenly looked like a guy the Broncos could trust to hand a starting job to. When you're talking about $19m QBs, those are players who take an average supporting cast and make them appear better than their ability. Eli had a period in his career when he did that.
2. His contract is up after the season
He could be MVP in 2018; those things won't change.
I don't think it gets mentioned enough that Eli's contract is almost up. The Giants probably do feel that Eli can still play for the time being but I have little doubt that ownership and GM are salivating at the prospect of paying a young QB over paying the old QB.
Eli won't be here in 2019 unless he goes completely ape shit in 2018. That I do not see happening.
Look when he stinks this year and costs us points with horrible interceptions and Charlie Brown like fumbles and fall downs I will wait patiently and watch you all blame the flat earthers, or the turf or the terrible coaching or the mish mash OL or whatever boogey man you feel vindicated blaming for your man crush not playing well yet again. Eli is cooked and it's going on year 3 of that and it's going to get worse. He may start off hot in a new offense but he's going to hear the footsteps and he's going to wildly huck the ball around hoping David Tyree or Mario Manningham reappear and save him again. He was a great QB and a winner for a long time. He hasn't been that guy for a long time and that's that. Eventually he will move on and I won't have to watch this blind Faith masquerade as "analysis" any longer.
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there's no arguing if you really believe Matt Ryan has been better than Eli. I am too old to do that. It kind of enhances my point I made earlier in this thread though.
In the regular season - which, to be clear, and to avoid confusion is NOT the playoffs - Ryan has been consistently better than Eli.
Let's look (Eli first):
Completion %s: 59% to 65%
Pet Attmpt: 6.99 to 7.47
TD/INT Ratio: 1.49 to 2.06
QBR: 57 to 69
RAT: 83.5 to 93.4
MVPs 0 to 1
Should I ignore those?
Ok.
In any case, Eli will have to play terrific in 2018 to keep his job in 2019 assuming the Giants have a hot shot young QB waiting in the wings.
Whatever the case, there's nothing bad that can come from Eli playing well in 2018. The objective is to win.
Something tells me we still don't even have a clear picture on the 2018 season just yet. I know DG said Eli is the QB, but things can change in a second if the Giants get the QB they want at 2.
Would anyone be completely shocked if Eli is cut in May or he demands to be traded? I wouldn't. I wouldn't bet on it, but it wouldn't shock me either.
Look when he stinks this year and costs us points with horrible interceptions and Charlie Brown like fumbles and fall downs I will wait patiently and watch you all blame the flat earthers, or the turf or the terrible coaching or the mish mash OL or whatever boogey man you feel vindicated blaming for your man crush not playing well yet again. Eli is cooked and it's going on year 3 of that and it's going to get worse. He may start off hot in a new offense but he's going to hear the footsteps and he's going to wildly huck the ball around hoping David Tyree or Mario Manningham reappear and save him again. He was a great QB and a winner for a long time. He hasn't been that guy for a long time and that's that. Eventually he will move on and I won't have to watch this blind Faith masquerade as "analysis" any longer.
Just for shits and giggles, not saying you're wrong or right...or anywhere in the middle...but take a look at this guy from 1990-1995:
49 wins
47 losses
Now, that's not too bad....but it's definitely mediocre.
That QB? John Elway.
What did he do after 1995 when he was entering the back 3-4 of his career? He played brilliantly.
QBs can slump. They can also rebound. Eli can rebound.
Poor coaching staffs have reduced some of the greatest QBs of all time to absolute trash. It's turned great QBs into placeholders. It's turned good QBs into bad ones.
You have to acknowledge that. Even if you think Eli is cooked you have to allow for some variances here with the transition from Coughlin to Micky Mouse to Shurmur.
He can't be worse, and there are reasons to think he will be good....
Namely his performance as coordinator last season, his ability to get the most out of Case Keenum, his experience, and being named Assistant Coach of the Year.
Those things alone put him a universe ahead of what McAdoo came to us with.
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
Yeah, it's just a team building philosophy thing. No need to rehash, but basically I think the NFL is more towards building a team around a system, then drafting or signing a QB to fit that system. Ala the Seahawks, or Dallas, or Minny, or any number of teams that fit that current bill.
I think the Franchise QB model of building a team is dead, because they're just not being produced by colleges at a high rate anymore, and I think draft history since Luck backs that up.
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
We were 3-13 last year and we have already got rid of 3 OL, possibly 4. We had UDFA playing a ton of snaps at skill positions. We lost OBJ for the majority of the year. We lost Marshall for the majority of the year. SS was banged up for a lot of games. The defense was just dyfunctional.
We are not fielding the same team this year. There were a lot of awful players on the team last year and some of them are getting passes and 2nd chances.
Oooh, another contrarian Terps take that isn't based in reality.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
It honestly could be a case study for a psychology class. With regards to Eli, I 100% believe there are actual Giant fans who would rather see him play bad then the team win. There is no doubt in my mind given the utter nonsense posted daily on BBI
How could he not be an improvement given that disaster of a coach we just dumped?
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It seems a safe bet he wasn't even our first choice.
Oooh, another contrarian Terps take that isn't based in reality.
It's not my thought; it's actually something hitdog (who seems to be plugged in) said a couple weeks ago.
Great contribution.
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In comment 13875697 Britt in VA said:
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
We were 3-13 last year and we have already got rid of 3 OL, possibly 4. We had UDFA playing a ton of snaps at skill positions. We lost OBJ for the majority of the year. We lost Marshall for the majority of the year. SS was banged up for a lot of games. The defense was just dyfunctional.
We are not fielding the same team this year. There were a lot of awful players on the team last year and some of them are getting passes and 2nd chances.
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pretty much my exact view.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's my point...I wouldn't assume anything.
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In comment 13875845 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 13875697 Britt in VA said:
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
We were 3-13 last year and we have already got rid of 3 OL, possibly 4. We had UDFA playing a ton of snaps at skill positions. We lost OBJ for the majority of the year. We lost Marshall for the majority of the year. SS was banged up for a lot of games. The defense was just dyfunctional.
We are not fielding the same team this year. There were a lot of awful players on the team last year and some of them are getting passes and 2nd chances.
That is all true. It also might be true that Eli is done. I don't know and neither does anyone. The only way anyone will be satisfied is we we give Eli, a good offensive scheme and coach, a solid OL and a quality running game. Who would not succeed with that? Dak Prescott looked amazing with that. The career Journeyman looked great with the Jets with less than that. All I know is that with timing of everything, including Eli's age and because we did not play Webb, I think it would be gross negligence on the part of management not to take a QB at 2 unless they are convinced none of them are worth anywhere near the number 2 pick. Otherwise take the damn QB and we can all root for Eli until proves he can't do it anymore.
I do agree with all of this. You have to take a QB number 2. I dont understand why everyone is up in arms about Eli and this year. If Eli stinks, we will stink. If Eli doesnt play, we are probably going to pla.y Playing him the first few games to see how the season goes, its just the obvious decision. If things go well, great.
If we start off losing, play the rookie. And keep building up the team. You can compete AND rebuild at the same time.
As far as Shurmur. We gotta give him a shot. No matter your opinion of him, there wasnt a must guy to have. We needed a change and we made it so let him and DG do some work.
There is talent on this team. The puzzle didnt fit last year. Maybe this year it will? Theres no guarantees in anything. But shit, I only get to watch this team 16 times a year, I am sure as hell not giving up on Eli (Manning and Apple), Shurmur, Gettleman, hell even Flowers before the season starts. Maybe I will be disappointed. Maybe I will be surprised.
Reese and Ross are gone and they were the two biggest reasons this team has suffered for the last 6 years. Time for a new attitude by me and hopefully from others.
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some of the same people on this thread used to go out of their way to bash Eli's play during the 00s. Now they can't wait to question his worth heading into 2018.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
It honestly could be a case study for a psychology class. With regards to Eli, I 100% believe there are actual Giant fans who would rather see him play bad then the team win. There is no doubt in my mind given the utter nonsense posted daily on BBI
This post is nonsense. We are all Giants fans here, and we just want to win. Just because some of us think it is time to move on from Eli does not mean we want to see him fail. That is pure garbage.
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some of the same people on this thread used to go out of their way to bash Eli's play during the 00s. Now they can't wait to question his worth heading into 2018.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
It honestly could be a case study for a psychology class. With regards to Eli, I 100% believe there are actual Giant fans who would rather see him play bad then the team win. There is no doubt in my mind given the utter nonsense posted daily on BBI
All signs are pointing to, at the very least, one more top level Guard being added to this OL in the draft. Along with Solder and Omameh, there is a good chance 4 out of the 5 OL spots could be upgraded from last year if Flowers/Biz/someone else is better than Hart at RT.
That alone is enough ammo to provide Eli with a CHANCE to succeed this year. It is laughable that anybody thinks that Eli should have succeeded the past couple of years given the targets available, OL, and RB situation. Its the same reason Elite quarterbacks like Andrew Luck (2016), Matt Ryan(last year), Derek Carr last year), Russell Wilson(2016) and Rivers(2016) look so good one year and so bad another. There are maybe 2 QBs in the ENTIRE LEAGUE that are good enough to take a team in shambles around them and make them better. Heck, even Rodgers cant do it every year because he got killed behind a bad OL.
All of the people that believe in Eli just want to see him given a fair chance to succeed. Rest assured, if he fails again, 75% of this board will be yelling from the mountain tops that they told you so.
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In comment 13875845 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 13875697 Britt in VA said:
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
We were 3-13 last year and we have already got rid of 3 OL, possibly 4. We had UDFA playing a ton of snaps at skill positions. We lost OBJ for the majority of the year. We lost Marshall for the majority of the year. SS was banged up for a lot of games. The defense was just dyfunctional.
We are not fielding the same team this year. There were a lot of awful players on the team last year and some of them are getting passes and 2nd chances.
That is all true. It also might be true that Eli is done. I don't know and neither does anyone. The only way anyone will be satisfied is we we give Eli, a good offensive scheme and coach, a solid OL and a quality running game. Who would not succeed with that? Dak Prescott looked amazing with that. The career Journeyman looked great with the Jets with less than that. All I know is that with timing of everything, including Eli's age and because we did not play Webb, I think it would be gross negligence on the part of management not to take a QB at 2 unless they are convinced none of them are worth anywhere near the number 2 pick. Otherwise take the damn QB and we can all root for Eli until proves he can't do it anymore.
I agree with this guy... I actually think the Gmen are lucky to have quality prospects like Rosen/Darnold and even a tools rich guy like Allan available to them in a year where all these things came about
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In comment 13875754 djm said:
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some of the same people on this thread used to go out of their way to bash Eli's play during the 00s. Now they can't wait to question his worth heading into 2018.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
It honestly could be a case study for a psychology class. With regards to Eli, I 100% believe there are actual Giant fans who would rather see him play bad then the team win. There is no doubt in my mind given the utter nonsense posted daily on BBI
This post is nonsense. We are all Giants fans here, and we just want to win. Just because some of us think it is time to move on from Eli does not mean we want to see him fail. That is pure garbage.
I’m not saying all, but there definitely are a few. You’ve been on here for 4 years go review years prior to that, especially the SB years and then get back to me
They never were to begin with.
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That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
IT WAS THE SECOND GAME OF THE SEASON!
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In comment 13875706 GoBlue6599 said:
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That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
IT WAS THE SECOND GAME OF THE SEASON!
Even I pointed that one out.... haha
Seconded.
While I do think Eli will play better in 2018 I want an elite young qb brought in. It’s time to think about tomorrow and beyond. There are so many advantages to having a long term qb in place and even more when he’s cost controlled.
Sort of makes the OP's argument...
All of the people that believe in Eli just want to see him given a fair chance to succeed.
What in sweet Moses does "fair chance to succeed" mean?
What more does Jints Central have to do to demonstrate they have bent over backwards to afford him that chance?
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All of the people that believe in Eli just want to see him given a fair chance to succeed.
What in sweet Moses does "fair chance to succeed" mean?
What more does Jints Central have to do to demonstrate they have bent over backwards to afford him that chance?
Just because you have done something doesn’t mean you have done it well.
Sort of makes the OP's argument...
Yes because that is exactly what I said right? That one embarrassing sack is evidence. That was solely related to my point that he is shell shocked. I have stated many times his play the last two years is evidence he is in major decline.
At least you didn't tell me to go root for the Eagles.
And this goes both ways. It certainly isn't limited to the pro-Eli people.
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In comment 13875706 GoBlue6599 said:
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That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
IT WAS THE SECOND GAME OF THE SEASON!
Doesnt matter if it was the 2nd or 10th. Business decisions like that are what has allowed Eli to make it 14 years in this league without any major injuries. I will take that trade-off.
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and scheme was and we are talking about a single sack as "embarrassing" proof he is done...
Sort of makes the OP's argument...
Yes because that is exactly what I said right? That one embarrassing sack is evidence. That was solely related to my point that he is shell shocked. I have stated many times his play the last two years is evidence he is in major decline.
At least you didn't tell me to go root for the Eagles.
Oh shit thanks for reminding me go root for the fucking eagles..
And this goes both ways. It certainly isn't limited to the pro-Eli people.
Ya got that right.
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In comment 13875731 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13875706 GoBlue6599 said:
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That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
IT WAS THE SECOND GAME OF THE SEASON!
Doesnt matter if it was the 2nd or 10th. Business decisions like that are what has allowed Eli to make it 14 years in this league without any major injuries. I will take that trade-off.
And also had him throw many a bad throw and INT.
If another QB had made a 'business decision' like that he'd be getting crushed. See the Cam gif above.
Cam Newton deserves way more grief for that play than he actually got. It is, possibly, the worst play in the history of the NFL and I don't think he could live it down if he threw for 100,000 yards and 500 touchdowns for his career. If I owned the Panthers that would have been his last game in that uniform.
Now I think there's a strong chance Eli is done and I think we should move on from him...but next to Eli, Cam ain't shit.
Cam Newton deserves way more grief for that play than he actually got. It is, possibly, the worst play in the history of the NFL and I don't think he could live it down if he threw for 100,000 yards and 500 touchdowns for his career. If I owned the Panthers that would have been his last game in that uniform.
Now I think there's a strong chance Eli is done and I think we should move on from him...but next to Eli, Cam ain't shit.
Ok...you have a right to that opinion... and I'm not even going to argue with you about it.
Still doesn't make Eli's 'Business decision' look good or be acceptable.
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In comment 13876215 JCin332 said:
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and scheme was and we are talking about a single sack as "embarrassing" proof he is done...
Sort of makes the OP's argument...
Yes because that is exactly what I said right? That one embarrassing sack is evidence. That was solely related to my point that he is shell shocked. I have stated many times his play the last two years is evidence he is in major decline.
At least you didn't tell me to go root for the Eagles.
Oh shit thanks for reminding me go root for the fucking eagles..
There he is! :)
Even IF Eli is better than average still and held down by the helpless Giants and their management and lack of talent.....a dubious claim at best in my opinion.....
They won’t magically improve enough this offseason for him to have a pro bowl season. I don’t know if Eli would have a pro bowl season on the current Eagles or Falcons or Pittsburgh offense......I do agree we don’t know quite how much he had left but it’s pretty clear it’s no better than average and probably somewhere between 18-25.
But let’s assume a miracle outlier........and he surprises us pleasantly and makes a pro bowl(which in today’s nfl required a 3-1 dt int ratio and 4400+ yards)......
In fact, Simms had a pro bowl season in 93 but the team saw no reason to invest in an older player. Probably the same here in particular if Darnold or Rosen is here.
If that were the case basing it off one year..... The Titans should worry abbout Mariota, the Bucs with Winston, hell even the Falcons and Ryan since he dropped off the face of the earth last year with a pedestrian year last year.
I know many people want to see Eli gone and new blood in, but lets see what he can do with a coach and GM who are still viewed as productive members of the NFL.
It didnt seem like Reese and McAdoo were in high demand this offseason, were they?
But his qbr has been in the rank I mentioned at least three of the last five years if not worse. Of course to take it with a grain of salt but that’s something to consider.
And he did have several 1 year blips of poor play before like 2013 but the circumstances of course dictated giving him another look.
Eli is old and he will get a chance with a new staff and system and I have zero issue with it-no harm in playing him next year until the team is out of playoff contention. But the idea he is going to play like a pro bowler is a bit of a reach and would be a surprise to me and many here.
The whole reasoning behind changing offensive schemes was to get more from Eli after his awful 2012 and 2013 seasons.
But to answer the OP, lets say Eli has a wonderful year. You want to extend him? I don't. I want to move on.
If they choose to go with Eli this year and it looks like that is the plan, expect another bad year for the team. Much like this past year. We are treading water.
Hope next years draft is loaded because we will be in the front of the line
But his qbr has been in the rank I mentioned at least three of the last five years if not worse. Of course to take it with a grain of salt but that’s something to consider.
And he did have several 1 year blips of poor play before like 2013 but the circumstances of course dictated giving him another look.
Eli is old and he will get a chance with a new staff and system and I have zero issue with it-no harm in playing him next year until the team is out of playoff contention. But the idea he is going to play like a pro bowler is a bit of a reach and would be a surprise to me and many here.
Fair points.
And like I said here, even as Eli's biggest fan, I am a huge fan of drafting a QB number 2. Whether he is MVP or the worst QB in the league.
All I will say is this. I dont know how good or bad Eli is right now. I know people hate excuses so lets just say this. He has a new coach. He has a new OLine. And hopefully his WRs are 100% going into the year. Also, the team should have a new attitude as well.
Lets see how Eli does. Whenever people count him out, he steps up and performs well. If he plays great out of the gate - then perfect, roll with him. If he struggles and the team does too - then it will be time to start someone else. But I know people hate the phrases like one more chance or clean slate - but with all the turmoil of the last 18 months in the orgnization, he is a stablizing force that derseves one last chance to show he can play in the league.
Any offense in which Odell Beckham is catching the majority of the passes for at least 16 games.
I’ve seen people not say that verbatim but pretty close. Jeff hostetler today would succeed with that set up😀
I do think Shurmur will put the best offense to tailor to Eli. And yes that involves a lot of targets to beckham.
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what type of Offense is best suited for Eli to be successful in 2018?
Any offense in which Odell Beckham is catching the majority of the passes for at least 16 games.
How about one that can actually run the ball at a respectable level? There's a start.
Oh right, I forgot, the Giants bent over backwards to give Eli a chance to succeed!! They gave him one great WR and a whole bunch of absolute garbage. Worst running game in the NFL? Check. No second WR worth shit? Check. The worst TEs in all of football up until last year and even then Micky mouse didn't play Eillison? Check.
Run the ball. Watch Eli win.
Matt Ryan has a losing record in the last 5 years...
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and an offensive line, what QB isn't going win? If those are the conditions he needs to be better than mediocre then you could just as easily swap him out for Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins and watch them win.
Matt Ryan has a losing record in the last 5 years...
And he is 95-65 over his 10 year career....so where are you going with this...
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In comment 13877730 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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and an offensive line, what QB isn't going win? If those are the conditions he needs to be better than mediocre then you could just as easily swap him out for Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins and watch them win.
Matt Ryan has a losing record in the last 5 years...
And he is 95-65 over his 10 year career....so where are you going with this...
He's actually 95-63, but you think that's impressive? He'll have to win 16 more games and lose 40 more before he's considered a really good QB, obviously.
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In comment 13877730 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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and an offensive line, what QB isn't going win? If those are the conditions he needs to be better than mediocre then you could just as easily swap him out for Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins and watch them win.
Matt Ryan has a losing record in the last 5 years...
And he is 95-65 over his 10 year career....so where are you going with this...
Ever see Ryan’s post season #s? Since being subpar in his first three playoff appearances, he’s really flourished his last three. Very impressive...
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In comment 13877778 dep026 said:
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In comment 13877730 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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and an offensive line, what QB isn't going win? If those are the conditions he needs to be better than mediocre then you could just as easily swap him out for Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins and watch them win.
Matt Ryan has a losing record in the last 5 years...
And he is 95-65 over his 10 year career....so where are you going with this...
He's actually 95-63, but you think that's impressive? He'll have to win 16 more games and lose 40 more before he's considered a really good QB, obviously.
Haha. I see what you did there. Exactly. If only he could achieve Manning's overwhelmingly mediocre career record he might get some respect.
The whole reasoning behind changing offensive schemes was to get more from Eli after his awful 2012 and 2013 seasons.
No it wasn't... It was designed to try and get something despite a putrid offensive line.
Hey Eli, yeah we know you are getting killed back there since 2012, and we have no plan to fix the line, so lets just throw the ball sooner...
Plays may not have a chance to develop, and since they know you are going to throw it quick, they are going to crowd in on the receivers, but just get rid of it... Something is bound to happen...
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what type of Offense is best suited for Eli to be successful in 2018?
Any offense in which Odell Beckham is catching the majority of the passes for at least 16 games.
And sports at least an average offensive line.
Glad to see you agree with me that Simms was clearly better than Montana ... anybody could have played QB on those San Fran teams and been deemed “great” ... the firepower was other worldly.
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and an offensive line, what QB isn't going win? If those are the conditions he needs to be better than mediocre then you could just as easily swap him out for Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins and watch them win.
Glad to see you agree with me that Simms was clearly better than Montana ... anybody could have played QB on those San Fran teams and been deemed “great” ... the firepower was other worldly.
Don’t know if you are being facetious but to suggest Montana was all system and no skill is as dumb as it gets...
Just yet another reason why he cannot hold a candle to Eli...