I mean legit Pro Bowl level AND they draft a QB this year? $6.2M dead cap hit if cut (not too terrible) and trading him is difficult with a NTC. Green Bay managed to pull off the extended passing of the torch, although it can be argued that they blew a SB opportunity in 2007 not having AR at the helm. Here’s to hoping Eli makes this decision just a little bit harder than expected
But lets put it this way. Many posters here consider a 26 TD and 16 INT with over 4,000 yards a "bad year". And for Eli it wasnt his best year - but many QBs would take that year.
Guess we'll see.
Are you suggesting that Eli had the pieces to have effective offenses the last 2 years? Did we underachieve in 2016? Should we have been a playoff team last year?
I hope he proves us all again what he capable of doing.
What if he plays worse than last year and we took a guard at 2?
? That explains why both of them have been awarded MVP of the entire NFL in the past.
What if he plays worse than last year and we took a guard at 2?
Is having a solid offensive line really going to hurt whomever the next QB is?
But to suggest that anyone knows for sure that he is done or that he is a pro bowl player is silly, IMO. Did anyone think Case Keenum could be a playoff QB and put up pretty good numbers coming into last year? Of course not. He went in as basically a 3rd string QB.
Yes, Eli is older. He is 37. So to expect him to play like he is 27 is unrealistic and will not happen. Maybe he is gun shy. Maybe he has the willies of fear of being hit. No one is suggesting that he isnt. Confidence is a crazy thing. You can carry it for long stretches and lose it with one big hit or one bad game.
But Eli deserves the chance to make it happen this year. Whether he does it or not, well we will have to wait and see. I doubt anyone is questioning his drive or work ethic. Why dont we wait til the season starts and see a healthy OBJ, EE, and SS with a new and improved OLine (hopefully), a new HC, and a new DC giving new life to the team before we judge.
Hell, maybe he will throw 5 TDs and 400 yards at Dallas opening week (we all know its happening) and many of us, imcluding me will crown him league MVP, only for him to come back with a 220 yard 1 TD and 3 TO game against someone else.
Passing judgement in March just seems silly to me.
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are so massively overrated, its criminal they are mentioned with the best QBs in the game.
? That explains why both of them have been awarded MVP of the entire NFL in the past.
ok, and whats your point? I would take 10-12 QBs over both of them and not even think twice. Stat driven league doesnt ensure success.
I will tell you this much, if a guy like Rivers, Luck, Stafford played with the talent the Falcons have had for their entire careers - they would be talked about in the realms of Rodgers and Brady.
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to the point he’s pro bowl level - as suggested. That would mean he’s right there with Brees, Wentz, Wilson, Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, Goff, etc. Does anyone really think that’s rational?
That’s asking a lot for a 37 year old to be in that company. The NFC is loaded with excellent QB play...
One of the QB's you mentioned will be 39, so...
So?
Do you want to attempt to put Eli in the same category as Brees? I'm certainly interested in that battle...
So?
Do you want to attempt to put Eli in the same category as Brees? I'm certainly interested in that battle...
No I'm not, but you brought up age as a deterring factor. It is, but Brees, Brady and to a lesser extent Ben and Rivers are examples of guys who are playing well at that age. I don't think it's the hurdle you're making it out to be.
I don't hate him. I see a rare opportunity to pick a QB to lead this team for the next 15 years. I also see teams frantically trying to move up to take these guys. I think that those that want to draft a guard or RB are just clinging on to Eli for as long as possible. I understand it, but it doesn't mean Eli is going to magically revert to his prime years and be great.
Massively overrated? Uh - no.
Overrated? Newton is to a degree. But he's an incredible athlete and closer to his prime than Eli. So it's reasonable to conclude he will have a pro bowl caliber season before Eli. and that was the point - who could be a pro bowl player this upcoming season...
I don't know who overrates Ryan. He's a very good QB who is only 32 and has been a better regular season QB than Eli over his career.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
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are so massively overrated, its criminal they are mentioned with the best QBs in the game.
Massively overrated? Uh - no.
Overrated? Newton is to a degree. But he's an incredible athlete and closer to his prime than Eli. So it's reasonable to conclude he will have a pro bowl caliber season before Eli. and that was the point - who could be a pro bowl player this upcoming season...
I don't know who overrates Ryan. He's a very good QB who is only 32 and has been a better regular season QB than Eli over his career.
Yes, they are massively overrated. If you think Matt Ryan has been better than Eli Manning, even in the regular season - it kind of proves my point. People just look at stats - and say "look at his stats, he has been very good". Factoring in personel, where they play, and the results that have come about..... are rarely things that are considered.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pretty much my exact view.
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That's total nonsense and it's total nonsense people would be unhappy if he played well.
There are plenty of fans of the team that think he's overrated. There are plenty of fans who think the defense was much more of a factor in the 2 championships. There are people who think it's pretty shady he got himself tangled up with the dipshit equipment guy to rip people off.
But hate? Lol - you should take a second look at what fact means.
It may be rare, but the guy who called for a serious head injury would qualify as someone with an irrational hatred.
And sure, you can point to the defense in 2007, but 2011? I'm not sure the 31st ranked defense carried us to a championship. Eli threw the team on his back that year, and it is fans who cannot appreciate that fact that frustrate those of us appreciative of what Eli has meant to the franchise.
I'm pretty sure they were the 31st ranked defense in 2012, not 2011. But the defense was still mediocre in 2011, so your point is valid.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
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In comment 13875549 dep026 said:
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are so massively overrated, its criminal they are mentioned with the best QBs in the game.
Massively overrated? Uh - no.
Overrated? Newton is to a degree. But he's an incredible athlete and closer to his prime than Eli. So it's reasonable to conclude he will have a pro bowl caliber season before Eli. and that was the point - who could be a pro bowl player this upcoming season...
I don't know who overrates Ryan. He's a very good QB who is only 32 and has been a better regular season QB than Eli over his career.
Yes, they are massively overrated. If you think Matt Ryan has been better than Eli Manning, even in the regular season - it kind of proves my point. People just look at stats - and say "look at his stats, he has been very good". Factoring in personel, where they play, and the results that have come about..... are rarely things that are considered.
Why wouldn't I look at stats to compare Eli's and Ryan's regular seasons? They certainly have enough data to make the comparison. And Ryan has been better. Do you want to get into things like playing in a dome? Or who had better coaching? Or who had better surrounding talent? All that type stuff is in play, just let me know how you want to judge it...
And statistically, Ryan's one SB crushed either of Eli's SBs. He just didn't have the good fortune of a helmet catch... ;)
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In comment 13875443 christian said:
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That's total nonsense and it's total nonsense people would be unhappy if he played well.
There are plenty of fans of the team that think he's overrated. There are plenty of fans who think the defense was much more of a factor in the 2 championships. There are people who think it's pretty shady he got himself tangled up with the dipshit equipment guy to rip people off.
But hate? Lol - you should take a second look at what fact means.
It may be rare, but the guy who called for a serious head injury would qualify as someone with an irrational hatred.
And sure, you can point to the defense in 2007, but 2011? I'm not sure the 31st ranked defense carried us to a championship. Eli threw the team on his back that year, and it is fans who cannot appreciate that fact that frustrate those of us appreciative of what Eli has meant to the franchise.
I'm pretty sure they were the 31st ranked defense in 2012, not 2011. But the defense was still mediocre in 2011, so your point is valid.
The general argument I was referring to is that the defense outplayed the offense in both championship games. This is a point guys like KWALL have made regularly.
Totally crushes
30-40 for 296 yards 1 TD and 0 TOs.
19-34 for 255 yards 2 TDs and 1 dropped catch for INT against an 18-0 team.
I mean, are we actually serious about this?
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
And despite the fact that your eyes tell you even now that he can still physically make all the throws, because we're talking about physical decline here (there is no mental decline at 37 years old), you won't acknowledge that maybe McAdoo's horrible scheme that couldn't break 20 points for an NFL record 8 straight games was probably most responsible for that cliff he fell off?
Guys are still playing at a high level at 37 in the NFL. There are multiple examples.
And if you're going to say he mentally declined due to feeling the pass rush or not looking down field, those things are attributed to the scheme/poor line and can be fixed.
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In comment 13875549 dep026 said:
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are so massively overrated, its criminal they are mentioned with the best QBs in the game.
? That explains why both of them have been awarded MVP of the entire NFL in the past.
ok, and whats your point? I would take 10-12 QBs over both of them and not even think twice. Stat driven league doesnt ensure success.
I will tell you this much, if a guy like Rivers, Luck, Stafford played with the talent the Falcons have had for their entire careers - they would be talked about in the realms of Rodgers and Brady.
Your opinion
Here are facts
Matt Ryan and Cam Newton both NFL MVP award winners
Lets hope the Giants take Darnold/Rosen. Eli comes out and plays well and the giants have a good year. If not, let the rookie take over.
I'm pretty sure they were the 31st ranked defense in 2012, not 2011. But the defense was still mediocre in 2011, so your point is valid.
You're right, my bad, 27th ranked defense in 2011.
But Eli's NFL record 7 fourth quarter comebacks, and record breaking 14 4th quarter TD's got us to 9-7, while the defense had a historically bad 4 games stretch where we lost 4 games in a row.
It's all opinion but it's not crazy to believe Matt Ryan is a better Qb then Eli
That's no slight to Eli .. Matt Ryan despite not winning a Sb has had a damn good career
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In comment 13875618 crick n NC said:
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
And despite the fact that your eyes tell you even now that he can still physically make all the throws, because we're talking about physical decline here (there is no mental decline at 37 years old), you won't acknowledge that maybe McAdoo's horrible scheme that couldn't break 20 points for an NFL record 8 straight games was probably most responsible for that cliff he fell off?
Guys are still playing at a high level at 37 in the NFL. There are multiple examples.
And if you're going to say he mentally declined due to feeling the pass rush or not looking down field, those things are attributed to the scheme/poor line and can be fixed.
Just because other QBs are still playing at a high level at 37 doesn't mean he will. No, I do not think he has lost his mental ability to read a defense and audible to better plays when surveying the defense at the line of scrimmage.
But I do see a drop off in his intermediate/deep accuracy. Also yes, I do think he is shell shocked. As I said in a thread yesterday, he got sacked against the Lions this year without even getting touched. It was embarrassing to watch.
You are probably right, him playing in a much better offensive scheme should help, but if the organization puts all of their faith in Eli going forward than I think it is a mistake.
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
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In comment 13875633 NYG07 said:
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In comment 13875618 crick n NC said:
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
And despite the fact that your eyes tell you even now that he can still physically make all the throws, because we're talking about physical decline here (there is no mental decline at 37 years old), you won't acknowledge that maybe McAdoo's horrible scheme that couldn't break 20 points for an NFL record 8 straight games was probably most responsible for that cliff he fell off?
Guys are still playing at a high level at 37 in the NFL. There are multiple examples.
And if you're going to say he mentally declined due to feeling the pass rush or not looking down field, those things are attributed to the scheme/poor line and can be fixed.
Just because other QBs are still playing at a high level at 37 doesn't mean he will. No, I do not think he has lost his mental ability to read a defense and audible to better plays when surveying the defense at the line of scrimmage.
But I do see a drop off in his intermediate/deep accuracy. Also yes, I do think he is shell shocked. As I said in a thread yesterday, he got sacked against the Lions this year without even getting touched. It was embarrassing to watch.
You are probably right, him playing in a much better offensive scheme should help, but if the organization puts all of their faith in Eli going forward than I think it is a mistake.
That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
I won't dispute that. Like I said above, if Eli is great this year then it is great for the Giants, which is all I care about. But they should not mortgage the future and pass on a QB they think can be a franchise guy just for the sake of trying to win a Superbowl with Eli the next year or two.
But Eli's NFL record 7 fourth quarter comebacks, and record breaking 14 4th quarter TD's got us to 9-7, while the defense had a historically bad 4 games stretch where we lost 4 games in a row.
Not trying to suggest that Eli wasn't awesome, he was. Just saw the last post and thought I'd add some reality. Reality is taht we were a middling team all regular season until the defense stepped up(after the Saints game?). The defense was a huge part of that SB run.
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to the point he’s pro bowl level - as suggested. That would mean he’s right there with Brees, Wentz, Wilson, Rodgers, Newton, Ryan, Goff, etc. Does anyone really think that’s rational?
That’s asking a lot for a 37 year old to be in that company. The NFC is loaded with excellent QB play...
One of the QB's you mentioned will be 39, so...
At what point were Drew Brees and Eli ever remotely equivalent?
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In comment 13875661 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13875633 NYG07 said:
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In comment 13875618 crick n NC said:
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
And despite the fact that your eyes tell you even now that he can still physically make all the throws, because we're talking about physical decline here (there is no mental decline at 37 years old), you won't acknowledge that maybe McAdoo's horrible scheme that couldn't break 20 points for an NFL record 8 straight games was probably most responsible for that cliff he fell off?
Guys are still playing at a high level at 37 in the NFL. There are multiple examples.
And if you're going to say he mentally declined due to feeling the pass rush or not looking down field, those things are attributed to the scheme/poor line and can be fixed.
Just because other QBs are still playing at a high level at 37 doesn't mean he will. No, I do not think he has lost his mental ability to read a defense and audible to better plays when surveying the defense at the line of scrimmage.
But I do see a drop off in his intermediate/deep accuracy. Also yes, I do think he is shell shocked. As I said in a thread yesterday, he got sacked against the Lions this year without even getting touched. It was embarrassing to watch.
You are probably right, him playing in a much better offensive scheme should help, but if the organization puts all of their faith in Eli going forward than I think it is a mistake.
That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
I think Eli will play much better in 2018. I can't take 2017 too seriously. Call me crazy, I don't give a shit....last season was the anomaly. He will be somewhere in between 2015 and 2016--and that's good. Maybe even very good.
I thought he fell cause he didnt think he could get the throw off.
He's got happier feet than he's ever had and his mind numbing mistakes that a seasoned pro shouldn't make have never gone away. He doesn't have the arm or athletic ability to make something out of nothing anymore.