I mean legit Pro Bowl level AND they draft a QB this year? $6.2M dead cap hit if cut (not too terrible) and trading him is difficult with a NTC. Green Bay managed to pull off the extended passing of the torch, although it can be argued that they blew a SB opportunity in 2007 not having AR at the helm. Here’s to hoping Eli makes this decision just a little bit harder than expected
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
I thought he fell cause he didnt think he could get the throw off.
Well, still a business decision, and that's okay for self preservation. If you're about to get sacked, why take unnecessary punishment.
Please, I could use an extra 20 bucks.
4000 yards and over 22 TDs. How is that for a watermark?
I was so tired seeing the giants run on first, throw a 3 yard pass to a TE on 2nd down, and then throw it short of the marker on 3rd down where we didnt have a WR pass the sticks.
2. His contract is up after the season
He could be MVP in 2018; those things won't change.
2. His contract is up after the season
He could be MVP in 2018; those things won't change.
He has two years left on his contract.
Counterpoint, having a true, proven franchise QB in this league is rare, becoming rarer.
When you have one, you better get all you can out of him before tossing him aside.
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In comment 13875694 NYG07 said:
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In comment 13875661 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13875633 NYG07 said:
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In comment 13875618 crick n NC said:
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pitiful, no. But coming off a season that wasn't his best overall in 2015 but statistically his best, 27th in total QBR was a huge disappointment.
And despite the fact that your eyes tell you even now that he can still physically make all the throws, because we're talking about physical decline here (there is no mental decline at 37 years old), you won't acknowledge that maybe McAdoo's horrible scheme that couldn't break 20 points for an NFL record 8 straight games was probably most responsible for that cliff he fell off?
Guys are still playing at a high level at 37 in the NFL. There are multiple examples.
And if you're going to say he mentally declined due to feeling the pass rush or not looking down field, those things are attributed to the scheme/poor line and can be fixed.
Just because other QBs are still playing at a high level at 37 doesn't mean he will. No, I do not think he has lost his mental ability to read a defense and audible to better plays when surveying the defense at the line of scrimmage.
But I do see a drop off in his intermediate/deep accuracy. Also yes, I do think he is shell shocked. As I said in a thread yesterday, he got sacked against the Lions this year without even getting touched. It was embarrassing to watch.
You are probably right, him playing in a much better offensive scheme should help, but if the organization puts all of their faith in Eli going forward than I think it is a mistake.
That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
That was the 2nd game of the season and honestly Eli just looked old out there .. like he didn't wanna do it anymore,
He was badly outplayed by Matt Stafford
In the regular season - which, to be clear, and to avoid confusion is NOT the playoffs - Ryan has been consistently better than Eli.
Let's look (Eli first):
Completion %s: 59% to 65%
Pet Attmpt: 6.99 to 7.47
TD/INT Ratio: 1.49 to 2.06
QBR: 57 to 69
RAT: 83.5 to 93.4
MVPs 0 to 1
Should I ignore those?
Can always count on you for this. You're doing the lord's work here.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
The question to ask is not necessarily 'will he produce'. It's 'how well'. I've seen people argue that he'd be fine if he just had a better OL, receivers, run game, and coaching.
So would any average QB in ideal conditions. With those things plus coaching Case Keenum suddenly looked like a guy the Broncos could trust to hand a starting job to. When you're talking about $19m QBs, those are players who take an average supporting cast and make them appear better than their ability. Eli had a period in his career when he did that.
2. His contract is up after the season
He could be MVP in 2018; those things won't change.
I don't think it gets mentioned enough that Eli's contract is almost up. The Giants probably do feel that Eli can still play for the time being but I have little doubt that ownership and GM are salivating at the prospect of paying a young QB over paying the old QB.
Eli won't be here in 2019 unless he goes completely ape shit in 2018. That I do not see happening.
Look when he stinks this year and costs us points with horrible interceptions and Charlie Brown like fumbles and fall downs I will wait patiently and watch you all blame the flat earthers, or the turf or the terrible coaching or the mish mash OL or whatever boogey man you feel vindicated blaming for your man crush not playing well yet again. Eli is cooked and it's going on year 3 of that and it's going to get worse. He may start off hot in a new offense but he's going to hear the footsteps and he's going to wildly huck the ball around hoping David Tyree or Mario Manningham reappear and save him again. He was a great QB and a winner for a long time. He hasn't been that guy for a long time and that's that. Eventually he will move on and I won't have to watch this blind Faith masquerade as "analysis" any longer.
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there's no arguing if you really believe Matt Ryan has been better than Eli. I am too old to do that. It kind of enhances my point I made earlier in this thread though.
In the regular season - which, to be clear, and to avoid confusion is NOT the playoffs - Ryan has been consistently better than Eli.
Let's look (Eli first):
Completion %s: 59% to 65%
Pet Attmpt: 6.99 to 7.47
TD/INT Ratio: 1.49 to 2.06
QBR: 57 to 69
RAT: 83.5 to 93.4
MVPs 0 to 1
Should I ignore those?
Ok.
In any case, Eli will have to play terrific in 2018 to keep his job in 2019 assuming the Giants have a hot shot young QB waiting in the wings.
Whatever the case, there's nothing bad that can come from Eli playing well in 2018. The objective is to win.
Something tells me we still don't even have a clear picture on the 2018 season just yet. I know DG said Eli is the QB, but things can change in a second if the Giants get the QB they want at 2.
Would anyone be completely shocked if Eli is cut in May or he demands to be traded? I wouldn't. I wouldn't bet on it, but it wouldn't shock me either.
Look when he stinks this year and costs us points with horrible interceptions and Charlie Brown like fumbles and fall downs I will wait patiently and watch you all blame the flat earthers, or the turf or the terrible coaching or the mish mash OL or whatever boogey man you feel vindicated blaming for your man crush not playing well yet again. Eli is cooked and it's going on year 3 of that and it's going to get worse. He may start off hot in a new offense but he's going to hear the footsteps and he's going to wildly huck the ball around hoping David Tyree or Mario Manningham reappear and save him again. He was a great QB and a winner for a long time. He hasn't been that guy for a long time and that's that. Eventually he will move on and I won't have to watch this blind Faith masquerade as "analysis" any longer.
Just for shits and giggles, not saying you're wrong or right...or anywhere in the middle...but take a look at this guy from 1990-1995:
49 wins
47 losses
Now, that's not too bad....but it's definitely mediocre.
That QB? John Elway.
What did he do after 1995 when he was entering the back 3-4 of his career? He played brilliantly.
QBs can slump. They can also rebound. Eli can rebound.
Poor coaching staffs have reduced some of the greatest QBs of all time to absolute trash. It's turned great QBs into placeholders. It's turned good QBs into bad ones.
You have to acknowledge that. Even if you think Eli is cooked you have to allow for some variances here with the transition from Coughlin to Micky Mouse to Shurmur.
He can't be worse, and there are reasons to think he will be good....
Namely his performance as coordinator last season, his ability to get the most out of Case Keenum, his experience, and being named Assistant Coach of the Year.
Those things alone put him a universe ahead of what McAdoo came to us with.
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
Yeah, it's just a team building philosophy thing. No need to rehash, but basically I think the NFL is more towards building a team around a system, then drafting or signing a QB to fit that system. Ala the Seahawks, or Dallas, or Minny, or any number of teams that fit that current bill.
I think the Franchise QB model of building a team is dead, because they're just not being produced by colleges at a high rate anymore, and I think draft history since Luck backs that up.
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
We were 3-13 last year and we have already got rid of 3 OL, possibly 4. We had UDFA playing a ton of snaps at skill positions. We lost OBJ for the majority of the year. We lost Marshall for the majority of the year. SS was banged up for a lot of games. The defense was just dyfunctional.
We are not fielding the same team this year. There were a lot of awful players on the team last year and some of them are getting passes and 2nd chances.
Oooh, another contrarian Terps take that isn't based in reality.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
It honestly could be a case study for a psychology class. With regards to Eli, I 100% believe there are actual Giant fans who would rather see him play bad then the team win. There is no doubt in my mind given the utter nonsense posted daily on BBI
How could he not be an improvement given that disaster of a coach we just dumped?
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It seems a safe bet he wasn't even our first choice.
Oooh, another contrarian Terps take that isn't based in reality.
It's not my thought; it's actually something hitdog (who seems to be plugged in) said a couple weeks ago.
Great contribution.
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In comment 13875697 Britt in VA said:
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
We were 3-13 last year and we have already got rid of 3 OL, possibly 4. We had UDFA playing a ton of snaps at skill positions. We lost OBJ for the majority of the year. We lost Marshall for the majority of the year. SS was banged up for a lot of games. The defense was just dyfunctional.
We are not fielding the same team this year. There were a lot of awful players on the team last year and some of them are getting passes and 2nd chances.
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Not act like Manning was pitiful in 2016. While Manning's numbers weren't bad in 2016, there was a big drop off in yards and tds as well as ypa from '15. 16' was Mac's first year having full control and I think the offense changed, obviously for the worse.
When Mara claimed the offense was broken during the '13 season he should have said the OL was broken. In hindsight there wasn't any reason for gilbride to leave. The scheme Coughlin and gilbride ran we're fine.
I believe Mac was a Mara influenced hire, I don't think gilbride really wanted to retire or that coughlin wanted him to go. Mac comes in with but Coughlin not wanting to give up control of the offense blends his scheme with Mac's, which actually worked well. Coughlin leaves, Mac's real offense comes out and the team struggles offensively.
Pretty much my exact view.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's my point...I wouldn't assume anything.
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In comment 13875845 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 13875697 Britt in VA said:
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
We were 3-13 last year and we have already got rid of 3 OL, possibly 4. We had UDFA playing a ton of snaps at skill positions. We lost OBJ for the majority of the year. We lost Marshall for the majority of the year. SS was banged up for a lot of games. The defense was just dyfunctional.
We are not fielding the same team this year. There were a lot of awful players on the team last year and some of them are getting passes and 2nd chances.
That is all true. It also might be true that Eli is done. I don't know and neither does anyone. The only way anyone will be satisfied is we we give Eli, a good offensive scheme and coach, a solid OL and a quality running game. Who would not succeed with that? Dak Prescott looked amazing with that. The career Journeyman looked great with the Jets with less than that. All I know is that with timing of everything, including Eli's age and because we did not play Webb, I think it would be gross negligence on the part of management not to take a QB at 2 unless they are convinced none of them are worth anywhere near the number 2 pick. Otherwise take the damn QB and we can all root for Eli until proves he can't do it anymore.
I do agree with all of this. You have to take a QB number 2. I dont understand why everyone is up in arms about Eli and this year. If Eli stinks, we will stink. If Eli doesnt play, we are probably going to pla.y Playing him the first few games to see how the season goes, its just the obvious decision. If things go well, great.
If we start off losing, play the rookie. And keep building up the team. You can compete AND rebuild at the same time.
As far as Shurmur. We gotta give him a shot. No matter your opinion of him, there wasnt a must guy to have. We needed a change and we made it so let him and DG do some work.
There is talent on this team. The puzzle didnt fit last year. Maybe this year it will? Theres no guarantees in anything. But shit, I only get to watch this team 16 times a year, I am sure as hell not giving up on Eli (Manning and Apple), Shurmur, Gettleman, hell even Flowers before the season starts. Maybe I will be disappointed. Maybe I will be surprised.
Reese and Ross are gone and they were the two biggest reasons this team has suffered for the last 6 years. Time for a new attitude by me and hopefully from others.
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some of the same people on this thread used to go out of their way to bash Eli's play during the 00s. Now they can't wait to question his worth heading into 2018.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
It honestly could be a case study for a psychology class. With regards to Eli, I 100% believe there are actual Giant fans who would rather see him play bad then the team win. There is no doubt in my mind given the utter nonsense posted daily on BBI
This post is nonsense. We are all Giants fans here, and we just want to win. Just because some of us think it is time to move on from Eli does not mean we want to see him fail. That is pure garbage.
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some of the same people on this thread used to go out of their way to bash Eli's play during the 00s. Now they can't wait to question his worth heading into 2018.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
It honestly could be a case study for a psychology class. With regards to Eli, I 100% believe there are actual Giant fans who would rather see him play bad then the team win. There is no doubt in my mind given the utter nonsense posted daily on BBI
All signs are pointing to, at the very least, one more top level Guard being added to this OL in the draft. Along with Solder and Omameh, there is a good chance 4 out of the 5 OL spots could be upgraded from last year if Flowers/Biz/someone else is better than Hart at RT.
That alone is enough ammo to provide Eli with a CHANCE to succeed this year. It is laughable that anybody thinks that Eli should have succeeded the past couple of years given the targets available, OL, and RB situation. Its the same reason Elite quarterbacks like Andrew Luck (2016), Matt Ryan(last year), Derek Carr last year), Russell Wilson(2016) and Rivers(2016) look so good one year and so bad another. There are maybe 2 QBs in the ENTIRE LEAGUE that are good enough to take a team in shambles around them and make them better. Heck, even Rodgers cant do it every year because he got killed behind a bad OL.
All of the people that believe in Eli just want to see him given a fair chance to succeed. Rest assured, if he fails again, 75% of this board will be yelling from the mountain tops that they told you so.
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In comment 13875845 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 13875697 Britt in VA said:
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rolling with Eli for a year or two is not "putting all their eggs in one basket".
They're not idiots. They will have a plan, one way or the other.
It is, unless you are the Browns, you do not pick this high often. We were 3-13, our QB is 37 and he played awful last year. It is not if we need a QB, the only question is when. If Eli has reached a point in his career that he needs the exact same things a rookie QB needs to be successful, you might as well draft one when you have the second pick in a QB rich draft. The truth is, Eli might have a lot left, Eli also might be total toast. The last five years, combined with normal aging might have ruined him. I hope we hedge our bets and draft a QB at 2 while Eli wins a Superbowl then retires as a first ballot HoFer. That is my ideal scenario.
We were 3-13 last year and we have already got rid of 3 OL, possibly 4. We had UDFA playing a ton of snaps at skill positions. We lost OBJ for the majority of the year. We lost Marshall for the majority of the year. SS was banged up for a lot of games. The defense was just dyfunctional.
We are not fielding the same team this year. There were a lot of awful players on the team last year and some of them are getting passes and 2nd chances.
That is all true. It also might be true that Eli is done. I don't know and neither does anyone. The only way anyone will be satisfied is we we give Eli, a good offensive scheme and coach, a solid OL and a quality running game. Who would not succeed with that? Dak Prescott looked amazing with that. The career Journeyman looked great with the Jets with less than that. All I know is that with timing of everything, including Eli's age and because we did not play Webb, I think it would be gross negligence on the part of management not to take a QB at 2 unless they are convinced none of them are worth anywhere near the number 2 pick. Otherwise take the damn QB and we can all root for Eli until proves he can't do it anymore.
I agree with this guy... I actually think the Gmen are lucky to have quality prospects like Rosen/Darnold and even a tools rich guy like Allan available to them in a year where all these things came about
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In comment 13875754 djm said:
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some of the same people on this thread used to go out of their way to bash Eli's play during the 00s. Now they can't wait to question his worth heading into 2018.
Not saying you like it, but you definitely go out of your way and look for reasons to believe that Eli won't produce in 2018.
How the fuck can anyone take the 2017 season seriously? And to make things even more ridiculous, Eli actually posted stats that aren't even as bad as his 2013 campaign. Not even close actually. His numbers last year were merely pedestrian or below average. Not shockingly bad by any stretch and at times Eli played well last year.
But yea, he can't play well with a real man calling the plays as opposed to micky fucking mouse holding the tic tock diner menu.
That's nuts.
It honestly could be a case study for a psychology class. With regards to Eli, I 100% believe there are actual Giant fans who would rather see him play bad then the team win. There is no doubt in my mind given the utter nonsense posted daily on BBI
This post is nonsense. We are all Giants fans here, and we just want to win. Just because some of us think it is time to move on from Eli does not mean we want to see him fail. That is pure garbage.
I’m not saying all, but there definitely are a few. You’ve been on here for 4 years go review years prior to that, especially the SB years and then get back to me
They never were to begin with.
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That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
IT WAS THE SECOND GAME OF THE SEASON!
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In comment 13875706 GoBlue6599 said:
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That was Ziggy Ansah.. sacked Eli with his pinky nail
Honestly, that was a smart business decision when you're getting battered constantly, in the midst of a losing season, with a lame duck coach, and a depleted roster.
What did he have to gain/prove by hanging in there? Nothing.
IT WAS THE SECOND GAME OF THE SEASON!
Even I pointed that one out.... haha
Seconded.
While I do think Eli will play better in 2018 I want an elite young qb brought in. It’s time to think about tomorrow and beyond. There are so many advantages to having a long term qb in place and even more when he’s cost controlled.
Sort of makes the OP's argument...
All of the people that believe in Eli just want to see him given a fair chance to succeed.
What in sweet Moses does "fair chance to succeed" mean?
What more does Jints Central have to do to demonstrate they have bent over backwards to afford him that chance?
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All of the people that believe in Eli just want to see him given a fair chance to succeed.
What in sweet Moses does "fair chance to succeed" mean?
What more does Jints Central have to do to demonstrate they have bent over backwards to afford him that chance?
Just because you have done something doesn’t mean you have done it well.