You, if you think you know anything, are cockeyed. I’m tired of hearing the absolutes. We take a QB. We take Barkley. We trade down.
The N.Y. giants are blessed with an asset that is not being discussed. The name of that asset is Eli Manning. Now, admittedly, I’m a big fan of his. I like him, trust him and believe that he is loyal to the Giants. That said, I think the draft will follow his thought process. Bear with me a moment.
Only Eli Manning has worked with Davis Webb on a regular basis. Eli, at this point in his career, should be able to evaluate Mr. Webb’s potential, far, far better than any of you on BBI that read a report or two. And, he knows him far, far better than simply watching college game tape. I believe that Eli Manning will report to Mr. Gettleman, PRIVATELY - whether Davis Webb is the goods or not. If he is or can be the QB of the future, we trade down or pick a non-QB. If not, we take the QB of our choice. It’s as simple as that. Eli Manning, IN MY OPINION, confidentially, will call the shots.
And again, I happen to like and trust Eli Manning. I know he’s not a coach but his opinion has to be highly regarded.
exactly!
If the Giants believe the BPA is a QB (or even if the BPA is a tie between a QB and non-QB), the Giants need to use the 2nd pick on a QB.
If the BPA is a non-QB, but still is in a "skill / difference making position" (including RB and "edge rusher", but excluding OG), then the Giants should pick that non-QB.
If the clear BPA is a non-QB in a non-skill etc position, then try like hell to get a much as you can in a trade down.
That said, I willl reiterate foe the 100th time here, the only reason the Giants don't draft a QB is if they don't think any of those available are worthy of the 2nd pick.
If the Giants believe the BPA is a QB (or even if the BPA is a tie between a QB and non-QB), the Giants need to use the 2nd pick on a QB.
So you're saying that even if they plan to play Eli for 2 more seasons, and they really like Webb, they NEED to still take a quarterback?
That said, I willl reiterate foe the 100th time here, the only reason the Giants don't draft a QB is if they don't think any of those available are worthy of the 2nd pick.
Pretty much this. Eli isn't just some run of the mill player evaluating another player.
He's a future HOF'er at the position, and grooms young QB's at the Manning Academy in his off time.
I'm sure his opinion is valued, especially since he's cool with mentoring unlike d-ckheads like Favre were.
Besides being a tremendous athlete and a large reason for our last two rings
The man runs a passing academy
Think just maybe he can evaluate someones arm
Chance of being an NFL player
Have a little respect people
I'm thinking that Barkley and Webb is better than say JUST Josh Rosen or JUST Mayfield or whomever you think is tops.
What he is NOT going to do is turn the decision over to the QB based on his personal evaluation from watching 11-11s & 7-7's of a QB who was drafted by the guys he replaced.
He's not one to throw another player under the bus and he's not one to pan another player. When has he ever not taken the high road.
No, I just don't think Eli would ever put himself in this position.
Sweet Young Thing : “ It must be so reassuring to you to be able to ask Peyton for advice .”
Brock : “ Well, actually , he hasn’t said much of anything to me.”
Eli is not a coach. He is not a scout . Furthermore , when given the option last season to keep his streak alive while simultaneously allowing the Giants to evaluate the position, he flatly turned his HC down, instead allowing the media to churn for him.
I’m happy about those 2 Super Bowls . But let’s not make the terribly unfair judgment that those wins were solely attributed to Eli. Tyree made a circus catch for the ages. Mitchell deeking Brady. Blackburn breaking up a vertical on Gronkowski. Lots went into those victories . I mean enough .
The Giants are now a shit team. They have been so for quite awhile. The quarterback has been as much of the problem as anyone else .
While I agree with you that Eli should defer some money to improve our cap situation, I believe you are way off base with your view on Eli and the future of the Giants. I agree with Still Sam Huff- Eli's input should be valued in determining the future QB of the Giants. Why wouldn't you listen to someone who has seen Webb progress...or not?
The only way the Giants can defer money is to extend Eli's contract. Is that what you want? My guess is that management would rather play it out as is and revisit when the time comes. That way there is no commitment beyond 2019. You have no idea if Eli offered to restructure, or what management feels about that option, but that won't stop you from taking a dump on Eli for not doing it.
Sweet Young Thing : “ It must be so reassuring to you to be able to ask Peyton for advice .”
Brock : “ Well, actually , he hasn’t said much of anything to me.”
Eli is not a coach. He is not a scout . Furthermore , when given the option last season to keep his streak alive while simultaneously allowing the Giants to evaluate the position, he flatly turned his HC down, instead allowing the media to churn for him.
I’m happy about those 2 Super Bowls . But let’s not make the terribly unfair judgment that those wins were solely attributed to Eli. Tyree made a circus catch for the ages. Mitchell deeking Brady. Blackburn breaking up a vertical on Gronkowski. Lots went into those victories . I mean enough .
The Giants are now a shit team. They have been so for quite awhile. The quarterback has been as much of the problem as anyone else .
Your graciousness over two super bowl wins floods my being with joy. /sarcasm
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Yet he felt that Jimmy G was a threat and had him shipped out. You guys are way to into your feelings about Eli to think Eli gives a rats ass about who will be the qb of the giants. His job is to play as long as he feels like it and he is not going to tell the Giants, yea Webb is definately the future or draft Rosen....All these qb's have egos. If Eli was sooo about the Giants he would have deffered some money to improve the team no?
The only way the Giants can defer money is to extend Eli's contract. Is that what you want? My guess is that management would rather play it out as is and revisit when the time comes. That way there is no commitment beyond 2019. You have no idea if Eli offered to restructure, or what management feels about that option, but that won't stop you from taking a dump on Eli for not doing it.
I was more referring to the last couple of years. I want Eli to play this year and go out from the Giants playing well. But I feel that for the betterment of the future of this team they need to address the QB and start from scratch like TC and ELI did in 2004
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Yet he felt that Jimmy G was a threat and had him shipped out. You guys are way to into your feelings about Eli to think Eli gives a rats ass about who will be the qb of the giants. His job is to play as long as he feels like it and he is not going to tell the Giants, yea Webb is definately the future or draft Rosen....All these qb's have egos. If Eli was sooo about the Giants he would have deffered some money to improve the team no?
While I agree with you that Eli should defer some money to improve our cap situation, I believe you are way off base with your view on Eli and the future of the Giants. I agree with Still Sam Huff- Eli's input should be valued in determining the future QB of the Giants. Why wouldn't you listen to someone who has seen Webb progress...or not?
Because is not Eli's job to do that. DG and PS need to evaluate Webb on their own as that is what they are paid for. Last thing I need is Eli to say Webb is the future like he is some kind of talent evaluator and the Giants listen and end up getting screwed.
I was more referring to the last couple of years. I want Eli to play this year and go out from the Giants playing well. But I feel that for the betterment of the future of this team they need to address the QB and start from scratch like TC and ELI did in 2004
Again, we have no idea if management went to Eli to ask him to restructure, but overall, I agree with you. The QB situation does have to be addressed, and if it isn't in this year's draft, it won't be due to what DG and Shurmer think of Eli and/or Webb; it will be because they don't like any of the guys available.
Eli probably also thinks he can play 3-4 more years.
I think they would ask him his opinion yes. But if there was a Carson Wentz in this draft you take him even if Eli says that Webb is the guy. You Shouldnt pass up Peyton Manning if you had Kurt Cousins. The Colts took Luck when they still had Peyton because they felt he could be their guy for 10-15 seasons. You dont pass that guy up.
If there is a guy they love they will take him no matter what. If not they dont and either take a position player or try to trade the pick. I still think we take a QB because we should have taken what the colts got from the Jets if we were not interested in a QB because our trade value has dropped with the Jets now already in position.
Big Arm - Check
Decent mobility - Check
High Football IQ - Check
Willing to put int he work - Check
Coachable - Check
Accuracy - Check (some will debate this, but he has shown enough accuracy to succeed, He likely does not have Drew Brees surgical ability, but then neither does Eli)
You can question his footwork and ability to take snaps from under center... That can be learned and is coachable.
The big questions about Webb, and the only one that will determine if he is successful or not in the NFL is:
Can Process the Action Fast Enough to Make the Right Decisions Under Fire - Unknown
Frankly, nobody knows if he has that ability or not until he has had ample opportunity and shown he has it or doesn't. He has not had that opportunity, so nobody, not Eli, Gettleman, Shurmer or anybody else in the building knows. Webb probably doesn't know either.
Wouldnt we want the most information possible on who would be the next QB?
EM: "Thanks man. I didn't want to see to anyone fired. But I really appreciate all the support afterwards."
DG: "Yeah, so listen. Here's a completely random question. You think Davis Webb is good enough to take your job this season or next...maybe by the third year tops? Not asking for any specific reason. Just curious."
EM:
DG: "Eli?"
I'm thinking that Barkley and Webb is better than say JUST Josh Rosen or JUST Mayfield or whomever you think is tops.
Is Barkley and Webb better than Michel or Guice and Rosen?
Now, I know Eli runs a passing camp and he’s a terrific student of the game. But this doesn’t mean he knows what we have in Webb. Sure, they sit in the QB room together and that would give Eli an idea about how well Webb understands the game. But we already know that Webb is a coaches son and by all accounts has a super high football IQ. But no one knows what he’s going to do on the NFL gridiron (thanks McAdoof!). Webb could be the future, but here again, drafting a QB at the 2 does not preclude Webb from being the next great Giant QB. Having Webb and Darnold or Rosen would be a luxury, perhaps, but the competition would be terrific and you might even retain some value in whoever is the loser.
Anyway, seems to me like the most reasonable choice is to draft a QB at the 2 or trade back. Don’t like any RB at the 2 - even Barks who has every chance to be a terrific NFL RB - b/c there’s always RBs later on and RB have very short careers.
No disrespect, but the idea that Eli could or should determine what the Giants do with this pick is ridiculous and indicative of how loyalty on this board to Eli, can skew points of view.
JM already committed to EM as his QB for '18, and so did Shurmur. Plus its extremely unlikely a QB @2 will push him out of that. Eli is somewhat on a show me year, and the FO hopes he succeeds, especially with a better OL. Even a QB pick at #2 will have at least 1 or hopefully, in Eli and FO eyes, 2 years to develop; and the better of Webb and pick wins the job. If Eli performs poorly, or a QB @2 or Webb develops into a ready to go starter, then the FO has a tough decision to make.
If the Giants believe the BPA is a QB (or even if the BPA is a tie between a QB and non-QB), the Giants need to use the 2nd pick on a QB.
If the BPA is a non-QB, but still is in a "skill / difference making position" (including RB and "edge rusher", but excluding OG), then the Giants should pick that non-QB.
If the clear BPA is a non-QB in a non-skill etc position, then try like hell to get a much as you can in a trade down.
When you use the word value you become vague. If you mean you take BPA then that's an awful strategy IF you don't also take into account the importance of position.
If you (or anyone else if they blindly think you always go with BPA) don't think the QB is the most important position on the football field-- then you're just flat out wrong.