A friend of mine has an NFL QB coach as an acquaintance. This coach was entrusted to break down tape on the current crop of QB's , including
Darold, Rosen, Allen and Mayfield. He also did the same job of evaluating QB's last year.
My friend, a Giant fan, asked the QB coach if there was any significant difference between the top four and Davis Webb. He responded that he felt there was no significant difference between them and Davis Webb.
It seems to me that if Gettleman and the powers that be feel the same way anything is possible with the 2nd pick.
Again, I know that this is both anecdotal and second hand information. If true, it just adds to the speculation on what the Giants will do with second pick this year.
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In comment 13876090 Keith said:
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If Webb was the prospect that these guys are, why was he a 3rd round pick when all of these guys are projected to go top 10, possibly top 5??
Why was Russell Wilson a 3rd round pick and not a top 5?
You completely missed the point. Why did Wilson fall to the 3rd round? He had certain flaws that teams didn't want. Obviously teams were wrong. What have you seen from Webb that tells you teams were wrong. Guy couldn't beat out Geno Smith.
Maybe someone could explain something to me... everyone slams McAdoo for his coaching job last year. I don't see one person having any defense for him and it's pretty much universally accepted that he and almost every decision he made was the wrong one.
But when it comes to his decision to play Smith over Webb... it's used as proof as to why Webb can't possibly be Eli's successor.
Why is that?
Size, mobility, arm, accuracy, work ethic, coachability, football IQ, and his footwork even in preseason showed remarkable improvement
The only thing we don't know about Webb is if he can process everything happening on the field both pre and post snap, at the rate necessary to be successful at the NFL level. Depending on how fast he can process will determine if he is a bust, a star or somewhere in between. The problem is the Cal system was mostly a 1 read system, In the NFL the QB has no fewer than 3 pre and 3 post snap reads, and most plays more than that. It's a huge jump.
The only way to know if Webb is capable of making that jump, is for him to be in some real games. 3 games isn't enough, but it would have been far better than 0.
Now, consider the QBs in this 2018 draft class, do we know if they can process at an NFL level...
No... We don't. In that regards we know nothing more about them than we know about Webb. Perhaps Mayfield was in a more pro style offense and had some extra reads but in reality none of these guys were doing significantly more than Webb, and certainly nothing like what they need to do as Pros.
All of these guys have significant issues coming out.
Darnold - Mechanics, Sacks, Funbles
Rosen - Slight Frame, Injuries, apparently a poor locker room presense
Mayfield - Height, Off-Field, some say too improvisational, some question his arm
Allen - Mechanics, Accuracy, level of competition
Coming out Webb had questions too:
Mechanics - patted the ball, had a bit of a loop, footwork, taking snaps under center
Lack of experience - Didn't play in as many games as you would like because he was beaten out by Mahomes and Mayfield
From what I have seen of Webb in preseason, he seems to have addressed the mechanical items. Experience, blame the prior coaching staff...
So in fact, assessing Webb right now against the 2018 draft class QBs, we don't know if any of them can process fast enough. But we do know that Webb was able to improve and respond to coaching.
In other words, we know about the same about all of them.
"But we won't have another opportunity this good, ASJ."
You don't know that at all. Worst case scenario we have an All-Pro RB (or close to it), we can't get our QB in 2019, and Eli plays out his contract and we go for our guy in 2020.
Now, I'm saying all this but if the Giants take a QB at #2, I'm good with it and will fully support the pick...but it will still pain me to watch Saquon dominate on another team like the Browns, Broncos, or Colts.
Worst case scenario is definitely not an all-pro running back. Putting a potential injury aside, Reggie Bush was more hyped than Barkley and definitely more of a can’t-miss prospect. He was a solid pro but you can get backs like that long after the first round. And Bush was more successful than other top backs who busted. Worst case scenario is he’s Trent Richardson and Rosen or Allen lead teams that are playoff mainstays.
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if he falls into that much larger percentage group of unsuccessful NFL QBs drafted after the third round, then ok...we were playing Eli this year anyway, get the QB in 2019.
"But we won't have another opportunity this good, ASJ."
You don't know that at all. Worst case scenario we have an All-Pro RB (or close to it), we can't get our QB in 2019, and Eli plays out his contract and we go for our guy in 2020.
Now, I'm saying all this but if the Giants take a QB at #2, I'm good with it and will fully support the pick...but it will still pain me to watch Saquon dominate on another team like the Browns, Broncos, or Colts.
Worst case scenario is definitely not an all-pro running back. Putting a potential injury aside, Reggie Bush was more hyped than Barkley and definitely more of a can’t-miss prospect. He was a solid pro but you can get backs like that long after the first round. And Bush was more successful than other top backs who busted. Worst case scenario is he’s Trent Richardson and Rosen or Allen lead teams that are playoff mainstays.
This bullshit again. Once again, Reggie Bush has nothing to do with Saquon Barkley. Bush was not the prospect that Barkley was, period. There was a lot of hype about Bush, yes. That doesn't mean they are the same. Sometimes the hype is justified. LaDainian Tomlinson had a lot of hype, too, and is a lot closer to the kind of football player that Barkley is.
Barkley will never be Trent Richardson. If you think that's possible you don't have any input worth reading in any discussion around Barkley, you clearly haven't done your homework.
True, but Coach Shitwit seemed to have some irrational positive opinion of Geno Smith.
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Webb same as top 4 QBs in this draft coming out of college.
LOL.
He was the 5th QB taken last year.
In a class of project QBs and less than ideal prospects.
I strongly disagree. If Webb played 3 full games and showed pocket awareness, mobility, good decision making, poise, etc - like he really belonged and was comfortable - that would change the narrative.
Jimmy G played about 3 full games for the Pats and it was pretty clear he had the goods. Not comparing player to player, but pointing all you can see quite a bit over a 3 game sample...
Put another way, if Webb was a complete, unmitigated disaster in those 3 games, do you think that accelerates the decision to go QB?
Good post. I agree. Sure, Webb would have been playing behind a leaky OL, with WR's just off the street, but that still doesn't mean you can't make evaluations. Even if his stats suffered, you would have tape of him going through his progressions, calling out pass pro commands, how he handled pressure.
And yes, if his play screamed unmitigated disaster, that hastens the call to get another QB.
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In comment 13876098 allstarjim said:
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In comment 13876090 Keith said:
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If Webb was the prospect that these guys are, why was he a 3rd round pick when all of these guys are projected to go top 10, possibly top 5??
Why was Russell Wilson a 3rd round pick and not a top 5?
You completely missed the point. Why did Wilson fall to the 3rd round? He had certain flaws that teams didn't want. Obviously teams were wrong. What have you seen from Webb that tells you teams were wrong. Guy couldn't beat out Geno Smith.
Maybe someone could explain something to me... everyone slams McAdoo for his coaching job last year. I don't see one person having any defense for him and it's pretty much universally accepted that he and almost every decision he made was the wrong one.
But when it comes to his decision to play Smith over Webb... it's used as proof as to why Webb can't possibly be Eli's successor.
Why is that?
This is a very fair point. However, have you heard differently from anyone anywhere?
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In comment 13876123 Keith said:
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In comment 13876098 allstarjim said:
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In comment 13876090 Keith said:
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If Webb was the prospect that these guys are, why was he a 3rd round pick when all of these guys are projected to go top 10, possibly top 5??
Why was Russell Wilson a 3rd round pick and not a top 5?
You completely missed the point. Why did Wilson fall to the 3rd round? He had certain flaws that teams didn't want. Obviously teams were wrong. What have you seen from Webb that tells you teams were wrong. Guy couldn't beat out Geno Smith.
Maybe someone could explain something to me... everyone slams McAdoo for his coaching job last year. I don't see one person having any defense for him and it's pretty much universally accepted that he and almost every decision he made was the wrong one.
But when it comes to his decision to play Smith over Webb... it's used as proof as to why Webb can't possibly be Eli's successor.
Why is that?
This is a very fair point. However, have you heard differently from anyone anywhere?
Sorry... not sure what you're referring to... heard what differently? About Webb not being able to overtake Smith? No I haven't... but because I haven't doesn't mean it should be assumed that he never was.
But let's just say he never was ready to overtake Smith last season. We all knew when Webb was drafted that he was a project that was going to have to take AT LEAST a year to be ready to play. So stating that Webb's inability to overtake Smith in his first season should be a factor in determining whether he can develop into Eli's successor doesn't make much sense to me.
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I’ll beat this drum all year long. We’d still be in this “conundrum” even if Webb played 2-3-4 games in 2017. I’ve said this 10 times over the last two weeks here and no one ever acknowledges it. Which means the truth is annoying to hear. It’s still the truth. Even if Webb played some in 2017 we wouldn’t know nearly enough today. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. Yes the giants handled the qbs awfully last year. But this still rings true.
I strongly disagree. If Webb played 3 full games and showed pocket awareness, mobility, good decision making, poise, etc - like he really belonged and was comfortable - that would change the narrative.
Jimmy G played about 3 full games for the Pats and it was pretty clear he had the goods. Not comparing player to player, but pointing all you can see quite a bit over a 3 game sample...
Put another way, if Webb was a complete, unmitigated disaster in those 3 games, do you think that accelerates the decision to go QB?
That's just it though, Webb was never going to show all that poise and talent in last year's NYG offense. IT was beyond broken. Even if he looked pretty good I wouldn't be comfortable hitching the wagon to Webb.
Last year was impossible. Nothing good was going to come from that offense.
That Webb was expected to sit and learn for a year.
But you still want to insist that because he never showed success last year that he cannot possibly be the guy, until he proves that h e is...
That makes no sense.
But OK... Some food for thought.
Since coming to the Giants Webb has:
Improved his footwork
learned to take snaps from under center
Improved his release
Showed tremendous work ethic
Showed that he has the overall football IQ to succeed
Shown he can go through more than 1 read
All of these traits were evident by the 4th preseason game against the Patriots.
Yes, he did well against scrubs...
We still don't know how he will fair faced with a real NFL pass rush, and a real NFL defensive scheme.
I am not saying that Webb will the answer, but we can't write him off yet either, just because the idiot prior regime didn't play him.
We know he has the arm, and decent mobility,