Basically he said.
1. The Giants do not think this quarterback class is in the same league as the Manning-Ben Roethlisberger-Philip Rivers class of 2004.
2. When their draft board is finalized, the expectation is Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen and Josh Allen will not be one of the top three overall players listed. All three, of course, will be assigned high first-round grades, but all three will fall short of the top three. The strong feeling is the Giants will have running back Saquon Barkley, guard Quenton Nelson and defensive end Bradley Chubb as their highest-rated players (not necessarily in that order). So, it would go against their draft-day rules at No. 2 to take a quarterback not rated as the No. 1, 2 or 3 player on their board.
3. What about a trade down? The notion “quarterback or else they must trade out” is not flying with the Giants. Again, go back to Gettleman, who stressed, “You can’t get too cute” here. You see a player with the potential for greatness, you take him. Now, if the Giants get blown away by the Broncos (sitting at No. 5), do they move down? They definitely would consider it, especially if at No. 5 they can get Nelson.
4. Bills trade down:
Sliding all the way down in a deal with the Bills could bring back No. 12 and 22 in the first round and, in the second round, the 53rd and 65th overall picks, plus a 2019 second-round pick. It is believed Gettleman would hold out for more — the Bills would have to include their 2019 first-round pick. That is a bounty the Giants would have to consider, but the smart money is on them staying put and taking a player they see greatness in.
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If the standard is that a QB has to look like a hall fame lock, even the 2004 class wasn't that.
Via Incarcerated Bob... :)
If the standard is that a QB has to look like a hall fame lock, even the 2004 class wasn't that.
Agreed, and Philadelphia seems pretty happy with Wentz.
If the standard is that a QB has to look like a hall fame lock, even the 2004 class wasn't that.
No, but let's face it. Eli in 2004 was a better prospect than any of these guys - except maybe a non-concussed Rosen.
Everybody is guessing based on what they would do if they were Gettleman.
They have only been in this position a few times in the last 40 years. And the last time they were close in 2004, they would have taken Big Ben who I don’t think was rated in the top 3 players.
But they're going to get a kings ransom for the #2 overall pick.
Classic misinformation given to Paul Schwartz a couple weeks after it's reported the Giants are going to be giving misinformation to see where the leaks are coming from.
Not only are they willing to trade up but they are prepared to draft the 3rd selected QB
The only way the Giants do not select a QB is if they have a firm conviction on Webb or they get a first round pick next year that can be leveraged for a QB
But they're going to get a kings ransom for the #2 overall pick.
Classic misinformation given to Paul Schwartz a couple weeks after it's reported the Giants are going to be giving misinformation to see where the leaks are coming from.
Because the Giants may not think it is a great class does not mean other teams feel that way.
I personally want Nelson to help protect our QB and improve the running game which also helps the QB.
I personally want Nelson to help protect our QB and improve the running game which also helps the QB.
I'm wondering how much the Giants would ask from Denver to move down to 5?
Tim u are wrong. David Carr , who was Eli mannings teammate has said Josh Rosen is a better prospect than Eli coming out.
If the standard is that a QB has to look like a hall fame lock, even the 2004 class wasn't that.
This. None of these guys hold a candle as prospects.
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That should have no bearing on why or why not to take a QB.
If the standard is that a QB has to look like a hall fame lock, even the 2004 class wasn't that.
are you arguing with us, Schwartz, or Gettleman? I can’t figure it out. He’s reporting what (what he thinks) they think.
I should hope it's just what he thinks. It would be a very strange standard to draft by if how you determined a QBs value was to compare them to a draft that was 14 years and also revise history to make it seem like the 04 QBs were all surefire prospects.
All three, of course, will be assigned high first-round grades
Top ten? And would we rate a guy top 10 if we didn't think he was franchise QB material?Are we really going to pass on a franchise QB at 2 because we've determined he's only worth say the 8th slot? QB's come at a premium in this league. They cost more whether in terms $$ in FA or picks/players in a trade or draft slot.
(1) Barkley.
(2) Trade down with Denver, and take Nelson or Chubb.
I prefer (2). Assuming QBs go 1-3, then one or both of Nelson or Chubb is guaranteed to be available at 5. And it's likely to be both, since Barkley will likely go to the Browns at #4.
Well, that was a quick change of mind!
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/18/2018 1:23 pm : link : reply
You guys are so annoying with the Barkley shit that I'm starting to hope that he is a bust.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040711213947/http://football.about.com/cs/playerprofiles/p/elimanning.htm
https://scout.com/nfl/Article/2004-NFL-Draft-Quarterback-Top-10-104081983
So here's some of the scouting reports on Eli from 2004. Form your own conclusions as to how this guy would be rated against Rosen, Darnold, Allen, and Mayfield.
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and not just smoke, I'd be good with Barkley. A franchise QB would be great but they don't feel the QB is there then take the great RB.
Well, that was a quick change of mind!
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Jesus
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/18/2018 1:23 pm : link : reply
You guys are so annoying with the Barkley shit that I'm starting to hope that he is a bust.
Wow, stalker much?
I'm in favor of the Giants following their board. If the Giants don't like the QBs well enough then I'm ok with that.
I'm annoyed by how the clueless laymen on this board have built Barkley into godlike status and tear down all other prospects because they want him so badly.
See the difference there?
Clueless nobodies following emotion and trying to talk themselves out of a QB.
Or
Professional scouts that don't see the franchise QB.
That said, this is likely smoke.
[quote] is it so hard to believe that the Giants are not going to take sloppy seconds on a QB? There is a reason why they haven't been in this position to draft a QB many times before is because they usually do it right.
They usually do it right? What are you talking about?
Sloppy seconds? what if they get their top choice of QB,or they think both Darnold and Rosen are worthy of being picked at #2. This is one of the most highly thought of QB classes in a long time and to get the next franchise QB is not something the new GM is going to let slip through his hands.
The Giants will then have their choice of the QBs and the value of the pick goes up in trading with the Bills etc
no one knows what they are thinking (schwartz etc) except the getts and etc..plus this statement is made up..there's new thinking in that building..new ways.
The Giants will then have their choice of the QBs and the value of the pick goes up in trading with the Bills etc
I agree, but I see that probably as pretty low.
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Do you think it would have been Shula only or Shurmur as well who worked him out?
Thank you for that.
If we don't find out today who was there for NYG, we'll likely find out at Darnold's pro day tomorrow.
Unless that gets rained out.
I think this makes sense as it's a long shot that the Giants would trade down to 12 and they don't have to take a QB at #2 so there's a real good chance that Denver will have two of the top four QBs to pick from at #5 and, they'd definitely have one of the top four sitting there. I'm starting to believe it'll be Chubb at #2...would love a trade down but I don't think they'll be a trade down scenario open where Chubb or Nelson would be available.
We also had a poster recently say that Rothenberg was told by someone close to the Giants that Gettleman loves Rosen. Is it smoke? Maybe. But the fact that they did not even entertain the idea of trading down with the Jets tells me they want a QB.
I personally want Nelson to help protect our QB and improve the running game which also helps the QB.
Do you have some examples on past trades for proven commodities at QB?
Eli was also two years older than Rosen.
Personally, I'm fine with the Giants not liking the QB talent as long they're not motivated by some hail mary attempt to win one before Eli kicks it. So as far as that goes, I'm okay with this info. My biggest objection with this article is the stubbornness of staying at #2 when there is value to be had in moving down. If you're not going QB, at least leverage the QBs on the board for max value. There's a lot to be gained with this pick beyond BPA.
Gettleman was the director of player personnel. He wasnt running the draft..
So your going to blame him because the people in charge ABOVE him had an issue with leaking out info???
If this is a change of style and a smokescreen. Bravo. But it would be a first.
Of course this could be an amazing smokescreen...
(1) Barkley.
(2) Trade down with Denver, and take Nelson or Chubb.
I prefer (2). Assuming QBs go 1-3, then one or both of Nelson or Chubb is guaranteed to be available at 5. And it's likely to be both, since Barkley will likely go to the Browns at #4.
The other option is the Bills trade with the Colts using the 12th pick, their 2nd Second round pick and the first pick in the 3rd to get to 6, then use their 6th pick, their other 1st round pick and their 2nd round pick to get to 2.
As convoluted as that is, they're clearly trying to get in range of the prime QB picks, and that's the only way they can get there in my opinion. At 6 you get one of Barkley, Chubb or Nelson. 6 is as low as I'd go without getting a first next year, even then I'd probably demand a 2019 2nd from Buffalo in the scenario above.
If you're not taking a QB, I just can't see how you stay at 2. Hell, if comes to it do a 49ers and get on the phone with the Jets and we're fielding offers for 2, what can you offer. The Jets don't have much left, but I'm pretty positive you could leverage a 3rd and 4th for moving down one spot, I don't buy the notion that the Jets are happy with one of 3, they're all different QB's.
If this is a change of style and a smokescreen. Bravo. But it would be a first.
He certainly didn't at Carolina. A quick search, suggests that the beat writers there were constantly surprised how forthright he was in the lead up to drafts.
Dottino has been saying this for the last few months on all his interviews. Things can probably change, and they may still decide on a QB after all the evaluation is done.
Right now however, it does not appear they are thinking QB.
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is it so hard to believe that the Giants are not going to take sloppy seconds on a QB? There is a reason why they haven't been in this position to draft a QB many times before is because they usually do it right. So I just don't get this fantasy football mindset that fans have that oh well....see need....fill need. NO! that is NOT how it works in the NFL! The good teams draft difference makers. Players that can play and play well. At this spot, this high in the draft you absolutely MUST draft, not only a starter, but an all pro and possibly hall of famer. If the Giants don't think these QB's are that then it is not crazy at all to pass on that position and go another direction whether its Barkley or trade down and Nelson.
Sloppy seconds? They have the second overall pick in a highly touted class. Fucking awful post.
Just because this group of QBs is highly touted doesn't mean they're all the same or those doing the touting are correct.
I believe most teams would have one guy they like a lot better than the others, and highly doubt many if any have them all rated the same.
It stands to reason to me the Giants have one rated higher, and if he's selected by the Browns, then yes they'd be picking sloppy seconds as far as QBs they like. Do you go that way just because it's a QB and so many people say they would take one or select a player you have rated higher?
The danger is, in two years when Eli is done, the Giants could have a great running back and a less than average QB. Can they win this way?
We know teams can win with only a better-than-average (not great) QB, if they have other pieces, like a great defense.
I guess the point is, QB is most important position on the field. Just because a QB is not a hall of famer, you can justify picking him high because of the importance of the position to winning, and the fact that the opportunity is rare. I'm not saying I know what the Giants will do, but I don't think its as clear cut as "none of these QBs are worth a second pick."
[quote] is it so hard to believe that the Giants are not going to take sloppy seconds on a QB? There is a reason why they haven't been in this position to draft a QB many times before is because they usually do it right.
They usually do it right? What are you talking about?
Sloppy seconds? what if they get their top choice of QB,or they think both Darnold and Rosen are worthy of being picked at #2. This is one of the most highly thought of QB classes in a long time and to get the next franchise QB is not something the new GM is going to let slip through his hands.
According to a few scouts' views. The top QB in this class (Darnold) would be #4 if he were drafted last year!!!!
We also had a poster recently say that Rothenberg was told by someone close to the Giants that Gettleman loves Rosen. Is it smoke? Maybe. But the fact that they did not even entertain the idea of trading down with the Jets tells me they want a QB.
That was Mara's dictum prior to Gettleman being the GM. I think JM has to let DG make the call now. And DG sees that if he can fill a few holes, this team could be competitive in 2018.
Why not?
It was as unlikely that the Giants would make the playoffs in 2017 after their poor 2016 season. I believe the 2018 team could be better than the 2016 team. It will have a better O-Line for sure; a better running game (probably); a better Beezer corp., and a better coach/coaching staff - FOR SURE!!!!!
The 2018 offense may very well help to keep the defense off the field more often (as the Giants will likely be able to demonstrate greater offensive ball control).