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Paul Schwartz on why Giants won't go with QB

GFAN52 : 3/20/2018 6:45 pm
Basically he said.

1. The Giants do not think this quarterback class is in the same league as the Manning-Ben Roethlisberger-Philip Rivers class of 2004.

2. When their draft board is finalized, the expectation is Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen and Josh Allen will not be one of the top three overall players listed. All three, of course, will be assigned high first-round grades, but all three will fall short of the top three. The strong feeling is the Giants will have running back Saquon Barkley, guard Quenton Nelson and defensive end Bradley Chubb as their highest-rated players (not necessarily in that order). So, it would go against their draft-day rules at No. 2 to take a quarterback not rated as the No. 1, 2 or 3 player on their board.

3. What about a trade down? The notion “quarterback or else they must trade out” is not flying with the Giants. Again, go back to Gettleman, who stressed, “You can’t get too cute” here. You see a player with the potential for greatness, you take him. Now, if the Giants get blown away by the Broncos (sitting at No. 5), do they move down? They definitely would consider it, especially if at No. 5 they can get Nelson.

4. Bills trade down:

Sliding all the way down in a deal with the Bills could bring back No. 12 and 22 in the first round and, in the second round, the 53rd and 65th overall picks, plus a 2019 second-round pick. It is believed Gettleman would hold out for more — the Bills would have to include their 2019 first-round pick. That is a bounty the Giants would have to consider, but the smart money is on them staying put and taking a player they see greatness in.
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Thanks for posting  
FranknWeezer : 3/20/2018 6:49 pm : link
That BUF trade scenario sounds like Schwartz pulled it straight from BBI, especially with the added commentary about it taking a '19 first rounder to make it palatable for NYG.
Why is the 2004 class even being mentioned here?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2018 6:50 pm : link
That should have no bearing on why or why not to take a QB.

If the standard is that a QB has to look like a hall fame lock, even the 2004 class wasn't that.
RE: Thanks for posting  
GFAN52 : 3/20/2018 6:50 pm : link
In comment 13876511 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
That BUF trade scenario sounds like Schwartz pulled it straight from BBI, especially with the added commentary about it taking a '19 first rounder to make it palatable for NYG.


Via Incarcerated Bob... :)
RE: Why is the 2004 class even being mentioned here?  
GFAN52 : 3/20/2018 6:51 pm : link
In comment 13876512 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
That should have no bearing on why or why not to take a QB.

If the standard is that a QB has to look like a hall fame lock, even the 2004 class wasn't that.


Agreed, and Philadelphia seems pretty happy with Wentz.
Cough, cough...  
JohnF : 3/20/2018 6:53 pm : link

The right move..  
Sean : 3/20/2018 6:53 pm : link
If they don’t like QB’s so be it, I just hope it isn’t because of Eli.
RE: Why is the 2004 class even being mentioned here?  
FStubbs : 3/20/2018 6:54 pm : link
In comment 13876512 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
That should have no bearing on why or why not to take a QB.

If the standard is that a QB has to look like a hall fame lock, even the 2004 class wasn't that.


No, but let's face it. Eli in 2004 was a better prospect than any of these guys - except maybe a non-concussed Rosen.
To add:  
FStubbs : 3/20/2018 6:55 pm : link
I'm almost positive a QB will be chosen at #2. I just don't know who will be doing the picking.
The key line...  
Milton : 3/20/2018 6:58 pm : link
Quote:
Based on conversations, observations, machinations and educated guesswork, here are scenarios The Post views as most pressing for the Giants as they brace for this monumental draft
In other words, it's not based on inside information, it's just a bunch of sportswriters who know nothing more than we do having the same conversation we've been having the past several weeks.

Everybody is guessing based on what they would do if they were Gettleman.
Eli kills Rosen as a prospect, even without concussions  
Tim in VA : 3/20/2018 7:02 pm : link
And 2004 is mentioned often here as well in comparison to this draft. Totally fair to bring that up. There have been many posters here echoing each and every one of the points above, myself included, so don't act surprised. The only thing I disagree with is the argument against trading down. If Barkley is on the board, then yes you grab him, but Nelson or Chubb can be gotten later with extra much needed draft picks
Milton  
Tim in VA : 3/20/2018 7:03 pm : link
I agree that it's doubtful this writer knows anything really
Generally Schwartz is the only beat guy I respect and trust.  
David B. : 3/20/2018 7:04 pm : link
But he doesn't know either.
I’m not sure why the Giants would have a draft day rule on a 1st round  
Ivan15 : 3/20/2018 7:04 pm : link
QB.

They have only been in this position a few times in the last 40 years. And the last time they were close in 2004, they would have taken Big Ben who I don’t think was rated in the top 3 players.
I would not be surprised to see DG kick the can down the road  
The_Boss : 3/20/2018 7:07 pm : link
Regarding Eli’s successor. Personally I think that’s the wrong move as I’ve said here on many occasions that this isn’t likely a playoff team in 2018. What happens the following year with Eli being 38 and the 2019 QB crop is nowhere close to this group? The last thing I want is DG selling off the farm for a prospect who likely won’t be as good as Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield.
I would have put more credence in the whole  
shyster : 3/20/2018 7:07 pm : link
if he did not (in effect) cite Incarcerated Bob.
So the Giants don't think this class is on par  
EddieNYG : 3/20/2018 7:08 pm : link
With the 2004 class of Manning, Rivers and Big Ben...

But they're going to get a kings ransom for the #2 overall pick.

Classic misinformation given to Paul Schwartz a couple weeks after it's reported the Giants are going to be giving misinformation to see where the leaks are coming from.
Smoke  
TD : 3/20/2018 7:08 pm : link
That’s fine. Hopefully we get the Browns to go position player at 1 and we have our choice of QBs.
The qbs  
Archer : 3/20/2018 7:09 pm : link
How is it that the Jets and Buffalo are willing to trade up for a QB?
Not only are they willing to trade up but they are prepared to draft the 3rd selected QB


The only way the Giants do not select a QB is if they have a firm conviction on Webb or they get a first round pick next year that can be leveraged for a QB

I can’t shake this feeling that it’s going to be Barkley  
NoGainDayne : 3/20/2018 7:10 pm : link
Not necessarily what I want. Ideally I want a trade down and Nelson. But the way they are talking about Eli and not wanting to trade back with the Jets. The free agents they are looking at. I think this regime is definitely masking their intentions better but it feels like they view this as a team that can go on another run and drafting a QB at 2 isn’t in line with that.
I know some don't want it to be true  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/20/2018 7:10 pm : link
and it may not be ultimately, but it was a well reasoned and articulated article. It seemed more than credible to me. But I am not part of the "it has to be a QB crowd" and think it could be a QB or any of the other options mentioned.
RE: So the Giants don't think this class is on par  
section125 : 3/20/2018 7:12 pm : link
In comment 13876531 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
With the 2004 class of Manning, Rivers and Big Ben...

But they're going to get a kings ransom for the #2 overall pick.

Classic misinformation given to Paul Schwartz a couple weeks after it's reported the Giants are going to be giving misinformation to see where the leaks are coming from.


Because the Giants may not think it is a great class does not mean other teams feel that way.
Everybody hell bent on a QB at 2  
Jeever : 3/20/2018 7:12 pm : link
We can always trade for a proven commodity down the road. If we can get a decent deal with Denver I'd do it. You're still going to get one of Barkley, Nelson, Chubb or Fitzpatrick plus the extra picks.

I personally want Nelson to help protect our QB and improve the running game which also helps the QB.
RE: Everybody hell bent on a QB at 2  
GFAN52 : 3/20/2018 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13876538 Jeever said:
Quote:
We can always trade for a proven commodity down the road. If we can get a decent deal with Denver I'd do it. You're still going to get one of Barkley, Nelson, Chubb or Fitzpatrick plus the extra picks.

I personally want Nelson to help protect our QB and improve the running game which also helps the QB.


I'm wondering how much the Giants would ask from Denver to move down to 5?
RE: Eli kills Rosen as a prospect, even without concussions  
sxdxca : 3/20/2018 7:15 pm : link
In comment 13876522 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
And 2004 is mentioned often here as well in comparison to this draft. Totally fair to bring that up. There have been many posters here echoing each and every one of the points above, myself included, so don't act surprised. The only thing I disagree with is the argument against trading down. If Barkley is on the board, then yes you grab him, but Nelson or Chubb can be gotten later with extra much needed draft picks


Tim u are wrong. David Carr , who was Eli mannings teammate has said Josh Rosen is a better prospect than Eli coming out.
Don't believe anything  
tomjgiant : 3/20/2018 7:15 pm : link
you read or here,the new regime is not stupid.This is misinformation.
Why  
Zepp : 3/20/2018 7:15 pm : link
is it so hard to believe that the Giants are not going to take sloppy seconds on a QB? There is a reason why they haven't been in this position to draft a QB many times before is because they usually do it right. So I just don't get this fantasy football mindset that fans have that oh well....see need....fill need. NO! that is NOT how it works in the NFL! The good teams draft difference makers. Players that can play and play well. At this spot, this high in the draft you absolutely MUST draft, not only a starter, but an all pro and possibly hall of famer. If the Giants don't think these QB's are that then it is not crazy at all to pass on that position and go another direction whether its Barkley or trade down and Nelson.
RE: Why is the 2004 class even being mentioned here?  
Bill L : 3/20/2018 7:16 pm : link
In comment 13876512 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
That should have no bearing on why or why not to take a QB.

If the standard is that a QB has to look like a hall fame lock, even the 2004 class wasn't that.
are you arguing with us, Schwartz, or Gettleman? I can’t figure it out. He’s reporting what (what he thinks) they think.
And not the specific merits of their thoughts.  
Bill L : 3/20/2018 7:16 pm : link
.
this reads like an article  
Strahan91 : 3/20/2018 7:17 pm : link
that comes out a day or two before the draft. Based on the fact that Hitdog hasn't chimed in at all or left breadcrumbs as he has in the past, I find it hard to believe that even the Giants know which direction they plan on going in yet
RE: Eli kills Rosen as a prospect, even without concussions  
widmerseyebrow : 3/20/2018 7:20 pm : link
In comment 13876522 Tim in VA said:
Quote:


This. None of these guys hold a candle as prospects.
Milton  
ChicagoMarty : 3/20/2018 7:21 pm : link
Dilly! Dilly!
If this is true  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/20/2018 7:22 pm : link
and not just smoke, I'd be good with Barkley. A franchise QB would be great but they don't feel the QB is there then take the great RB.
RE: RE: Why is the 2004 class even being mentioned here?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2018 7:24 pm : link
In comment 13876544 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13876512 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


That should have no bearing on why or why not to take a QB.

If the standard is that a QB has to look like a hall fame lock, even the 2004 class wasn't that.

are you arguing with us, Schwartz, or Gettleman? I can’t figure it out. He’s reporting what (what he thinks) they think.


I should hope it's just what he thinks. It would be a very strange standard to draft by if how you determined a QBs value was to compare them to a draft that was 14 years and also revise history to make it seem like the 04 QBs were all surefire prospects.
what's high first round?  
bluepepper : 3/20/2018 7:28 pm : link
Quote:

All three, of course, will be assigned high first-round grades

Top ten? And would we rate a guy top 10 if we didn't think he was franchise QB material?Are we really going to pass on a franchise QB at 2 because we've determined he's only worth say the 8th slot? QB's come at a premium in this league. They cost more whether in terms $$ in FA or picks/players in a trade or draft slot.
It's  
AcidTest : 3/20/2018 7:30 pm : link
a well written article, with the caveat as someone said, that he could have been fed misinformation. My guess is as follows:

(1) Barkley.
(2) Trade down with Denver, and take Nelson or Chubb.

I prefer (2). Assuming QBs go 1-3, then one or both of Nelson or Chubb is guaranteed to be available at 5. And it's likely to be both, since Barkley will likely go to the Browns at #4.
Wasn’t it stated by the Giants that no leaks  
bradshaw44 : 3/20/2018 7:32 pm : link
Would be coming out with this regime? I won’t believe anything until the pick/trade is made.
RE: If this is true  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2018 7:33 pm : link
In comment 13876555 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
and not just smoke, I'd be good with Barkley. A franchise QB would be great but they don't feel the QB is there then take the great RB.


Well, that was a quick change of mind!

Quote:
Jesus
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/18/2018 1:23 pm : link : reply
You guys are so annoying with the Barkley shit that I'm starting to hope that he is a bust.
I'm starting to feel like  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/20/2018 7:40 pm : link
Barkley is going to be the pick, provided we don't trade down.
Let's see what I can dig up.  
FStubbs : 3/20/2018 7:44 pm : link
[url]https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/2004draft/Manning,Eli-QB-Mississippi.htm[/url]

https://web.archive.org/web/20040711213947/http://football.about.com/cs/playerprofiles/p/elimanning.htm

https://scout.com/nfl/Article/2004-NFL-Draft-Quarterback-Top-10-104081983

So here's some of the scouting reports on Eli from 2004. Form your own conclusions as to how this guy would be rated against Rosen, Darnold, Allen, and Mayfield.

I don't know who the pick is  
arniefez : 3/20/2018 7:46 pm : link
I really don't even really care who the pick is. But I care if the rest of league knows what they're doing again. I hope he's just guessing.
Not buying that schwartz know this much about the Giants draft board  
BillT : 3/20/2018 7:46 pm : link
If he does, Gettleman and his staff need to be fired. We've got the most important pick since Eli and Schwartz knows this much about their intentions. Not buying it.
RE: RE: If this is true  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/20/2018 7:47 pm : link
In comment 13876570 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13876555 LakeGeorgeGiant said:


Quote:


and not just smoke, I'd be good with Barkley. A franchise QB would be great but they don't feel the QB is there then take the great RB.



Well, that was a quick change of mind!



Quote:


Jesus
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/18/2018 1:23 pm : link : reply
You guys are so annoying with the Barkley shit that I'm starting to hope that he is a bust.




Wow, stalker much?

I'm in favor of the Giants following their board. If the Giants don't like the QBs well enough then I'm ok with that.

I'm annoyed by how the clueless laymen on this board have built Barkley into godlike status and tear down all other prospects because they want him so badly.

See the difference there?

Clueless nobodies following emotion and trying to talk themselves out of a QB.

Or

Professional scouts that don't see the franchise QB.


That said, this is likely smoke.

.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2018 7:48 pm : link
The more things I read like this, the more I'm starting to think the Giants ARE taking a QB.
RE: Eli kills Rosen as a prospect, even without concussions  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2018 7:51 pm : link
In comment 13876522 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
Just for fun, prove it.
The prevailing opinion of Denver being a trade partner  
Diver_Down : 3/20/2018 7:53 pm : link
with the assumption that they want a QB might be false. Recently, the message is that they are content in seeing Keenum run the offense and staying at #5. The speculation is that they could go with Chubb to bookend with Von Miller. Of course, if a QB falls to them, then that is another matter.
RE: Why  
tomjgiant : 3/20/2018 7:55 pm : link
Zepp said:
[quote] is it so hard to believe that the Giants are not going to take sloppy seconds on a QB? There is a reason why they haven't been in this position to draft a QB many times before is because they usually do it right.

They usually do it right? What are you talking about?
Sloppy seconds? what if they get their top choice of QB,or they think both Darnold and Rosen are worthy of being picked at #2. This is one of the most highly thought of QB classes in a long time and to get the next franchise QB is not something the new GM is going to let slip through his hands.
Schwartz has been very plugged in this offseason  
Chris684 : 3/20/2018 7:58 pm : link
Not sure how much smoke there is here.
RE: .  
Bill L : 3/20/2018 8:04 pm : link
In comment 13876583 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The more things I read like this, the more I'm starting to think the Giants ARE taking a QB.
i actually believe that too.
Barkley  
Archer : 3/20/2018 8:05 pm : link
The best case senario for the Giants is for the Browns to take Barkley

The Giants will then have their choice of the QBs and the value of the pick goes up in trading with the Bills etc
People touted Luck as being the best prospect since Manning  
Tim in VA : 3/20/2018 8:14 pm : link
Consider this also. After Manning clearly said he wouldn't play for the Chargers, they still picked him. Rivers could have gotten selected before the Giants pick and what would the Chargers have done then? They knew he was by far the most valuable player in a great great draft
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