A few weeks ago it was said the Giants were going to be using misdirection after being burned with leaks in prior years, I believe it. I honestly feel nobody knows what Gettleman is thinking. People saying the Giants will not take a QB or will trade down or believe in Davis Webb, etc.
I think the beat writers are speculating & have no idea. The coaching search was similar. We heard Wilks was a favorite, Patricia was a favorite, it is hard to say whether either of that was true.
Amazing we still have over a month. So crucial, yet it is completely up in the air what the Giants will do at 2.
It doesn’t matter who we draft if we don’t build a complete team around them. QB or running back, at the end of the day it’s going to be whole drafts and good free agents and player development that will build a championship team. Good coaching as well.
It's an annual thing that people find ways to convince themselves that the organization is a leaking ship and that the Giants are a continually inept organization that can't keep information in-house. All it takes is one beat writer speculating on their draft interests, and if one name gets picked before a Giants pick, it's because of a 'leak'.
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there is no reason anyone should complain.
But he better be Ladanian Tomlinson.
Exactly. People would be mad at this outcome? The idea is to come away with a HOF talent. We haven’t had an elite RB since Tiki.
Superbowls won since Tiki - 2
Superbowls with Tiki - 0
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In comment 13876617 Breeze_94 said:
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there is no reason anyone should complain.
But he better be Ladanian Tomlinson.
Exactly. People would be mad at this outcome? The idea is to come away with a HOF talent. We haven’t had an elite RB since Tiki.
Superbowls won since Tiki - 2
Superbowls with Tiki - 0
Means absolutely nothing.
And by the way, Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw were a pretty darn good pair of RB's.
It's not a coincidence that the Giants offense has been really lousy for about as long as their run game has.
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In comment 13876623 Sean said:
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In comment 13876617 Breeze_94 said:
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there is no reason anyone should complain.
But he better be Ladanian Tomlinson.
Exactly. People would be mad at this outcome? The idea is to come away with a HOF talent. We haven’t had an elite RB since Tiki.
Superbowls won since Tiki - 2
Superbowls with Tiki - 0
Means absolutely nothing.
And by the way, Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw were a pretty darn good pair of RB's.
It's not a coincidence that the Giants offense has been really lousy for about as long as their run game has.
The Giants running game in 2011 was historically bad. They were decent in the playoffs, but the only reason they got to the playoffs was because of Eli, Hakeem, and Cruz. I believe they entered the playoffs dead last in rushing. Using Jacobs and Bradshaw as a pretty good pair of running backs when they were dead last in rushing in 2011 doesn't support an argument to draft Barkley
I'm not criticizing, I actually think it's impossible to lock everything down playing in this market in 2018.
However, there is some legitimate noise out there if you cut through the speculation.
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In comment 13876714 Justlurking said:
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In comment 13876623 Sean said:
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In comment 13876617 Breeze_94 said:
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there is no reason anyone should complain.
But he better be Ladanian Tomlinson.
Exactly. People would be mad at this outcome? The idea is to come away with a HOF talent. We haven’t had an elite RB since Tiki.
Superbowls won since Tiki - 2
Superbowls with Tiki - 0
Means absolutely nothing.
And by the way, Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw were a pretty darn good pair of RB's.
It's not a coincidence that the Giants offense has been really lousy for about as long as their run game has.
The Giants running game in 2011 was historically bad. They were decent in the playoffs, but the only reason they got to the playoffs was because of Eli, Hakeem, and Cruz. I believe they entered the playoffs dead last in rushing. Using Jacobs and Bradshaw as a pretty good pair of running backs when they were dead last in rushing in 2011 doesn't support an argument to draft Barkley
The Giants were a top 5 rushing team in 2007. We also actually won the SB that year too!
There's a reason why the 2011 team needed Eli to be fucking Superman to even make the playoffs in the first place. The 2011 team was wildly inconsistent and lost some very ugly football games - including to the Rex Grossman-led Redskins.
They were lucky they even got in at all with 9 wins - 9-7 teams miss the playoffs every single year.
Dallas was the only top 10 rushing team to miss the playoffs this past season.
I'd say running the football is pretty fucking important, personally.
Maybe Jerome Bettis?
But he better be Ladanian Tomlinson.
Did LaDanian ever win a ring?
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there is no reason anyone should complain.
But he better be Ladanian Tomlinson.
Exactly. People would be mad at this outcome? The idea is to come away with a HOF talent. We haven’t had an elite RB since Tiki.
Did Tiki ever win a ring?
It's more than that. The 2008 Giants team during that regular season was a better football team than either of the 2007 or 2011 teams were at any point.
But one of the things that made that 2008 team so good was the way they were able to impose their will and run the football. We were the #1 rushing team in the league.
If Barkley is the best player in the draft, the Giants shouldn't be afraid to take him. A great running game elevates a football team.
It doesn’t matter who we draft if we don’t build a complete team around them. QB or running back, at the end of the day it’s going to be whole drafts and good free agents and player development that will build a championship team. Good coaching as well.
Can you deny that there are inordinate amount of incredible RBs that never won anything while Marino basically stands alone at QB?
OJ Simpson
Earl Campbell
Gale Sayers
Eric Dickerson
Adrian Petersen
LaDanian Tomlinson
Curtis Martin
Thurman Thomas
Barry Sanders
Edgerrin James
A lot on very bad teams
Just pick the best player and pray he stays healthy for 10+ years. That's all you can do.
Emmitt Smith
Terrell Davis
Tony Dorsett
Jerome Bettis
Marshall Faulk
Franco Harris
This team has to use resources to address four glaring needs:
-- A replacement for Eli
-- A deeper, more capable oline
-- corner help
-- pass rushers
The golden age of needing a great RB has been over for a long, long time. Running backs now grow on trees. They are everywhere. Sure, some standout above others - like a Gurley or Bell type. But you can get reasonable facsimiles of those types, and at cheaper dollars, and get solid results. And usually you can get 2-3 of them.
A Lexus is a nice car. But a Camry runs just as well and is better priced. That's what we need - a few Camrys...
But if they don't take a qb, and Eli does not have a good year, DG has a lot of explaining to do....
(I guess you could count Dilfer - but he started just as many games as Banks did and had a GOAT-level defense)
Anyway - it's short-sighted and pointless to try and blueprint everything that happens in this league. Results can be anomalous for several reasons.
Past results don't guarantee future outcomes.
The RB position became fairly devalued in recent years after the 90's and early 2000's where teams were looking for bell cow RB's to pound between the tackles 25x a game.
That is starting to change again. Ingram/Kamara was HUGE for New Orleans this past year. Gurley was probably the actual MVP of the league if it were more common for non-QB's to win it. Bell has been a catalyst for the PIT offense for several years now. The Cardinals had very good offense with David Johnson and a very, very poor one without him. (I realize Palmer was also injured.. but Palmer was also 37 years old in 2016-17.
Look at how Dallas struggled without Elliott.
Look at what Fournette did for JAX in year one and what Hunt did for KC. How good was Cook for MIN before he went down?
The pendulum is swinging back.
That is starting to change again. Ingram/Kamara was HUGE for New Orleans this past year. Gurley was probably the actual MVP of the league if it were more common for non-QB's to win it. Bell has been a catalyst for the PIT offense for several years now. The Cardinals had very good offense with David Johnson and a very, very poor one without him. (I realize Palmer was also injured.. but Palmer was also 37 years old in 2016-17.
Ingram 1st round, 28th pick
Kamara 3rd round, 67th pick
Gurley 1st round, 10th pick
Bell 2nd round, 48th pick
Johnson 3rd round, 68th pick
My point? RBs - good ones - are EVERYWHERE.
The pendulum is swinging back.
I dont think people are ready to accept this fact.. One of the ways you deal with the pass happy offenses in the NFL is a solid run game.. ball control.. eat up the clock.. keep their offense off the field.. which keeps your defense fresh..
Especially your four minute offense in close games.. I also think that just getting run all over is demoralizing..
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That is starting to change again. Ingram/Kamara was HUGE for New Orleans this past year. Gurley was probably the actual MVP of the league if it were more common for non-QB's to win it. Bell has been a catalyst for the PIT offense for several years now. The Cardinals had very good offense with David Johnson and a very, very poor one without him. (I realize Palmer was also injured.. but Palmer was also 37 years old in 2016-17.
Ingram 1st round, 28th pick
Kamara 3rd round, 67th pick
Gurley 1st round, 10th pick
Bell 2nd round, 48th pick
Johnson 3rd round, 68th pick
My point? RBs - good ones - are EVERYWHERE.
The larger point is about the impact of the players playing those positions.
Does it matter that the Rams got Gurley 10th overall instead of 2 rounds later? He's an elite player who had a major impact on that team and was one of the best players in football this year.
None of the listed players above were taken later than rd. 3. Obviously there are good RB's scattered around - but again, we had years not too far in the rear where not even 1 RB was taken in round 1.
The 2017 rookie RB class had a huge impact across the league.
If Barkley is as good as he's being billed, he will make the QB better and will make the Giants a better team.
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The pendulum is swinging back.
I dont think people are ready to accept this fact.. One of the ways you deal with the pass happy offenses in the NFL is a solid run game.. ball control.. eat up the clock.. keep their offense off the field.. which keeps your defense fresh..
Especially your four minute offense in close games.. I also think that just getting run all over is demoralizing..
Yep. Now everyone is sucked too far into the pass-happy aspects of the league.
Sometimes you can gain an advantage by zigging when most of your competition is still zagging.
If everyone tries to build a successful team the same way, resources to do so that way will become limited quickly. Sometimes it's better to look to bolster your roster in a way that most other teams are ignoring or undervaluing.
That's not to say that most of the league doesn't have their eye on Barkley - he's an incredible prospect. But not many teams have a true, elite 3-down runner. RB's like this are NOT a dime a dozen. It's a weapon that most of the league doesn't have in their arsenal.
FWIW, I'm not even dead set on Barkley. I think the Giants should take either he or Rosen @ 2 or move down if one of those 2 are gone and they're not completely enamored with the other.
I just think the whole "great RB's don't win SB's" argument is terribly short-sighted and dismissive. But hey, that's just my opinion, man.
Eric,
If NYG takes a QB which one do you want? I don't think I have heard your choice.
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In comment 13876780 arcarsenal said:
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That is starting to change again. Ingram/Kamara was HUGE for New Orleans this past year. Gurley was probably the actual MVP of the league if it were more common for non-QB's to win it. Bell has been a catalyst for the PIT offense for several years now. The Cardinals had very good offense with David Johnson and a very, very poor one without him. (I realize Palmer was also injured.. but Palmer was also 37 years old in 2016-17.
Ingram 1st round, 28th pick
Kamara 3rd round, 67th pick
Gurley 1st round, 10th pick
Bell 2nd round, 48th pick
Johnson 3rd round, 68th pick
My point? RBs - good ones - are EVERYWHERE.
The larger point is about the impact of the players playing those positions.
Does it matter that the Rams got Gurley 10th overall instead of 2 rounds later? He's an elite player who had a major impact on that team and was one of the best players in football this year.
None of the listed players above were taken later than rd. 3. Obviously there are good RB's scattered around - but again, we had years not too far in the rear where not even 1 RB was taken in round 1.
The 2017 rookie RB class had a huge impact across the league.
If Barkley is as good as he's being billed, he will make the QB better and will make the Giants a better team.
It just so happens that Barkley is the best player in this draft. It doesn't always matter who else is available in this draft at RB. There is only one Barkley.
Barring a pre-draft trade.
And won everything twice without him. It's not as if it's a must have.
Hell, we have an elite WR and a loud 30% of the fanbase can't wait till he's gone.
The Eagles stormed through the entire league and ranked 3rd in rushing yards by featuring two runningbacks that their original teams thought were disposable parts, neither of which managed to reach 800 rush yards on the season.
The Patriots won a super bowl with the 18th ranked run game and no player rushing for 500 yards on the season. In fact, Bill Belichick's team has had ONE runningback run for 1000 yards in the last five years. They sent Coughlin's power running game home for the season while running for a hearty 50 total yards rushing themselves.
Can't use the Pats as an example because they're just impossible to explain?
In the 2017 NFL playoffs divisional round, only one out of eight teams had a 100 yard rusher.
The idea of a franchise RB or a team "built" on the run game has won some and lost some. There's no secret sauce, and Giants fans should obviously know that's the truth. They've done it both ways: with a great run game and literally the worst one in the sport.
If we're not taking a QB, then we pretty much have to trade down. Even a generational RB, Guard isn't worth the likely haul we could get.
If we can get to 5 or 6 (which will require the Bills to get to six and still have the capital to make it worth while) at least one of the three blue chip non QB's will be there. We could use any of them, but I do worry about Chubbs fit in a 3-4, simply because we could easily wear him down at End on early downs if we're not careful.
If we're not taking a QB, then we pretty much have to trade down. Even a generational RB, Guard isn't worth the likely haul we could get.
If we can get to 5 or 6 (which will require the Bills to get to six and still have the capital to make it worth while). At least one of the three blue chip non QB's will be there. We could use any of them, but I do worry about Chubbs fit in a 3-4, simply because we could easily wear him down at End on early downs if we're not careful.
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About Tomlinson never leading the Chargers to a super bowl as it’s some kind of conclusion that we should not draft Barkley are foolish. Should we not pick a QB because Marino never won a super bowl?
It doesn’t matter who we draft if we don’t build a complete team around them. QB or running back, at the end of the day it’s going to be whole drafts and good free agents and player development that will build a championship team. Good coaching as well.
Can you deny that there are inordinate amount of incredible RBs that never won anything while Marino basically stands alone at QB?
OJ Simpson
Earl Campbell
Gale Sayers
Eric Dickerson
Adrian Petersen
LaDanian Tomlinson
Curtis Martin
Thurman Thomas
Barry Sanders
Edgerrin James
A lot on very bad teams
- Steve NcNair
- Jim Kelly
- Randall Cunningham
- Boomer Esiason
- Donovan McNabb
- Ken Anderson
- Dan Fouts
- Fran Tarkenton
- Warren Moon
- Archie Manning
- Bernie Kosar
Just to name a few
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In comment 13876640 g56blue10 said:
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About Tomlinson never leading the Chargers to a super bowl as it’s some kind of conclusion that we should not draft Barkley are foolish. Should we not pick a QB because Marino never won a super bowl?
It doesn’t matter who we draft if we don’t build a complete team around them. QB or running back, at the end of the day it’s going to be whole drafts and good free agents and player development that will build a championship team. Good coaching as well.
Can you deny that there are inordinate amount of incredible RBs that never won anything while Marino basically stands alone at QB?
OJ Simpson
Earl Campbell
Gale Sayers
Eric Dickerson
Adrian Petersen
LaDanian Tomlinson
Curtis Martin
Thurman Thomas
Barry Sanders
Edgerrin James
A lot on very bad teams
Marino stands alone, really? The following might disagree with you:
- Steve NcNair
- Jim Kelly
- Randall Cunningham
- Boomer Esiason
- Donovan McNabb
- Ken Anderson
- Dan Fouts
- Fran Tarkenton
- Warren Moon
- Archie Manning
- Bernie Kosar
Just to name a few
Are we forgetting Phillip Rivers?
I think you're hearing more and more rumors about not wanting a QB and trading down because Gettleman is trying to create a market for the pick to get this biggest offer for him to consider.
I'm willing to bet they are leaning QB but are trying to drum up offers to convince them otherwise.
My guess based on nothing!
Are we forgetting Phillip Rivers?
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the prevailing opinion (Dottino, Papa, King, etc.) is that the Giants will not take a QB.
If we're not taking a QB, then we pretty much have to trade down. Even a generational RB, Guard isn't worth the likely haul we could get.
If we can get to 5 or 6 (which will require the Bills to get to six and still have the capital to make it worth while). At least one of the three blue chip non QB's will be there. We could use any of them, but I do worry about Chubbs fit in a 3-4, simply because we could easily wear him down at End on early downs if we're not careful.
Chubb is the most flawed of the blue chippers and has potential bust characteristics unlike the others, but then again he plays a premium position only behind QB.
In many ways a good 4-3 pass rushing DE who can stand up against the run is more valuable than a qb, only a handful of those while there are at least a dozen serviceable qbs in the nfl. Strahan was an absolute freak.