Of all the interviews I've heard Gettleman on, this is the one I have heard the most.
While I have always and will always be in the "Never say never" camp when it comes to someone offering a trade for a player or picks, I do think the idea of trading down gets a tad overrated at times.
This time of year, there are hundreds of prospects that give the notion of hope and repair to a broken team. NYG was as broken as any team in the league last year and while some holes have been plugged, there are still several leaks. Knowing that, the idea of trading down and getting multiple picks falsely leads many to believe that all if these issues will be covered in a single draft.
However if you truly look at draft classes, every single one of them...the 96-100 players taken in rounds 1-3...most of them are not in the league making an impact 4-5 years later. Go ahead...take a look. It is true.
More picks DOES increase your odds of having a draft class like the Saints did last year, absolutely. But odds that will not happen. Some of the best draft minds in the league miss on more prospects than they hit on. But many of you do not realize that in the moment because right now, you have lists and lists of prospects that can be THE guy. They benefit from the unknown.
This brings me back to Gettleman and his approach with the #2 pick. Whether it is a QB or Barkley, the offer has to be overly substantial to move down, especially if it is the Bills and that #12 pick. That is a far drop in comparison to who you can have at #2. Gettleman understands that "getting too cute"...trying to manipulate the draft and hoping your guy falls to this spot and that team takes this guy...it may put them in a very unfavorable position. Extra picks are nice...but they are very far from guaranteed.
What draws me to BUF is potential 2019 1st, as they may very well end up being one of the worst 5 teams in football. That pick next year may be VERY valuable.
Yes. They have to get great value to move out of the 2 spot because it's a valuable pick. My fear is that the Giants have and will turn down great value because they are enamored with Barkley. With what we know about the draft, I think THAT is "getting too cute".
There are 3 to 5 players selected in the HOF each year. So IF these players were distributed evenly in each draft (which they aren't) and IF you knew which player the HOFers would be, the HOFers from each draft would come from the top 3 to 5 picks.
At 2nd overall, this needs to be an HOF pick. Ideally, a QB, RB, WR, Edge Rusher or Left Tackle.
In this draft, it looks like the Barkley and Nelson are the most likely HOFers.
So Eric, if there is no "HoF" potentially worthy pick, what do you do? Barkley, maybe? Nelson Maybe? One of the QBs? - very hard to see a HoF pick there.
Think Sy is saying stay put, grab the best player (Barkley) or the best QB (Rosen to me).
I guess a quick trade down with Denver could be the best - take Nelson or Fitzpatrick or Chubb and then some help in the 2nd...
Quality over quantity, NYG needs to leave this draft with the best talent they can plug in the future, and not necessarily about 2018.
Thanks
While Webb is not a prospect on the level of the top QBs in this draft, he is still an asset until proven otherwise. 2018 would give them the opportunity they squandered in 2017.
If he is the goods, then even better that you didnt go QB in 2018, and built your roster up in other areas. If he sucks, you're loaded with that extra #1 which may very well be high coming from Buf, but at the very least can be packaged to move up if necessary.
Darnold
Barkley
Chubb
Fitzgerald
Nelson
Rosen
Allen
Moving to 12 almost guarantees that we miss out on all of them.
So am I. I think with a revamped Iine. New coach and OBJ Engram Barkley and SS that this can be an explosive offense
I don’t feel QB is the right pick because
1. Sitting a 2 pick now for a year or two does nothing for this team immediately. And I do feel Eli has another 2-3 years
2. I don’t feel any of these QBs are can’t miss prospects like Andrew Luck etc
3. If DG misses on this pick by taking a QB it sets the franchise back 3-5 years
4. Having Webb makes it even more difficult to pick QB because he is an unknown and who says these QBs are any better than Webb
My pick. Saquan all the way No QB. No trade down
Which is why I don't see him trading back any farther than #5 if at all.
Let Buffalo trade up with Cleveland for the #4 pick and give them the big deal being floated out there. Cleveland has the #1 and can get their top guy, and then I could possibly see DG trading back to #4 with Buffalo for their #1 next year. QBs going 1-2-3 and the Giants taking who they want at 4 from all the remaining top players.
If they don't see anyone like that, they should trade down.
Right or wrong, I think they are more likely to stay put and draft the guy who has the LEAST risk to be a bust. To me, that's Barkley, followed by Chubb and Nelson.
If so, that approach is going to piss some people off. I personally hope they are not automatically discounting trade offers.
Thanks
About 3 weeks.
So am I. I think with a revamped Iine. New coach and OBJ Engram Barkley and SS that this can be an explosive offense
I don’t feel QB is the right pick because
1. Sitting a 2 pick now for a year or two does nothing for this team immediately. And I do feel Eli has another 2-3 years
2. I don’t feel any of these QBs are can’t miss prospects like Andrew Luck etc
3. If DG misses on this pick by taking a QB it sets the franchise back 3-5 years
4. Having Webb makes it even more difficult to pick QB because he is an unknown and who says these QBs are any better than Webb
My pick. Saquan all the way No QB. No trade down
I've been on the Barkley bandwagon since September.
Blue chip to me...only Barkley and Rosen if he checks ALL of the medical boxes.
Right or wrong, I think they are more likely to stay put and draft the guy who has the LEAST risk to be a bust. To me, that's Barkley, followed by Chubb and Nelson.
If so, that approach is going to piss some people off. I personally hope they are not automatically discounting trade offers.
I’d argue this is correct. A lot of people said the DG hire was safe and the Shurmur hire was safe. Safe is what this franchise needs. Hiring Ben McAdoo was wildly risky and it blew up.
If it means drafting Barkley at 2 & the best available player in every round following, that works for me.
I don’t feel like Chubb is an elite prospect. He’s being compared to Guys like Vernon and Chandler Jones. They’ve had really nice careers...but I want a JJ Watt/Aaron Donald type player if I’m picking 2 overall.
The Browns collected a lot of picks of the last couple of years and that got then a winless season. Why? Because they do not have a franchise QB. That is the most important position on the field. More than a RB or a pass rusher. If people here doubt that, all you need to do is look at the leagues top salaries and see how many RBs or pass rushers are paid more than the top QBs in this league.
I also mentioned that while L Bell is considered possibly the best RB in the game, the Steelers scored as many points per game without him as they did with him because they had a QB who could run the offense regardless.
So, getting picks from the Bills is a nice idea but what is the point? In a year or two when you NEED that next QB where will we be selecting? We probably will have to deal just as many (if not more) picks back to get to the top of the draft to select a top QB in what MAY also be a thin QB class.... and unwilling teams to trade with because they may want the guy as well.
If we do not select our QB with this pick, in a year or two we will be giving up way too much, or we will be just another one of those average teams with an average QB that is destined to just have an average season with no shot at a championship.
Perhaps Chubb is the very best in a weak DE class? He seems like an awesome player with a really high motor. But he doesn't scream Von Miller to me. I don't think he's athletic enough.
If it wasn't for the Bettcher hire, I'd give Chubb a lot more weight. Hard to see him as the pick though if we're going to be giving more 3-4 looks.
If you believe Papa, King, Schwartz, they pass on him.
That's my hope. Then we would have ourselves some incredible options.
He is a top 10 player in this class, maybe even top 7 when all is said and done.
That said, the top of this class is a little weak and I think he is going to benefit from that. He isn't in the same tier as some of the top edge guys in recent years. I do like that he is a safe pick...he wears several hats, he isn't overly reliant on one trait. Plays with good technique.
But man...at #2 overall...I don't see a 12+ sack year in, year out guy here.
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with the 2nd pick?
If you believe Papa, King, Schwartz, they pass on him.
I suspect the prior regime liked Darnold or the type of QB he is.
If we were to consider QB I fully believe the guy they’d look at would be Allen then Rosen.
Darnold
Barkley
Chubb
Fitzgerald
Nelson
Rosen
Allen
Moving to 12 almost guarantees that we miss out on all of them.
The Colts have basically written in neon lights that they'd be happy to trade down again.
The Bills have enough ammo that they'd be able to get 6, and still have enough to put together a decent offer.
If I'm Gettleman, I say to Beane get to six and we'll talk.
At 6, they'd be looking at 6, 22, 53 and 2019 1st to move down to 2. (there might have to be say a 2019 4th or so going back to them)
I think the Bills are all in and us or the Browns are their only two potential partners.
Right or wrong, I think they are more likely to stay put and draft the guy who has the LEAST risk to be a bust. To me, that's Barkley, followed by Chubb and Nelson.
If so, that approach is going to piss some people off. I personally hope they are not automatically discounting trade offers.
Agreed. I think they stay put and take Barkley. It will have to be a hell of a trade offer to get DG to move down, and even then I don't think he'd drop past 5. He wants one of the three players you mentioned, probably in that order.
Strahan was no triangle freak - you just couldn't match his intensity and that's what you see with Chubb. He's also got that gregarious on-field personality that fires his teammates up. And the high football IQ.
The Browns collected a lot of picks of the last couple of years and that got then a winless season. Why? Because they do not have a franchise QB. That is the most important position on the field. More than a RB or a pass rusher. If people here doubt that, all you need to do is look at the leagues top salaries and see how many RBs or pass rushers are paid more than the top QBs in this league.
I also mentioned that while L Bell is considered possibly the best RB in the game, the Steelers scored as many points per game without him as they did with him because they had a QB who could run the offense regardless.
So, getting picks from the Bills is a nice idea but what is the point? In a year or two when you NEED that next QB where will we be selecting? We probably will have to deal just as many (if not more) picks back to get to the top of the draft to select a top QB in what MAY also be a thin QB class.... and unwilling teams to trade with because they may want the guy as well.
If we do not select our QB with this pick, in a year or two we will be giving up way too much, or we will be just another one of those average teams with an average QB that is destined to just have an average season with no shot at a championship.
You aren't wrong with any of that.
But you HAVE to be convinced one of the quarterbacks is THE guy. You can't take one just because...
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and what I said aligns with your point that more picks does not = more wins.
The Browns collected a lot of picks of the last couple of years and that got then a winless season. Why? Because they do not have a franchise QB. That is the most important position on the field. More than a RB or a pass rusher. If people here doubt that, all you need to do is look at the leagues top salaries and see how many RBs or pass rushers are paid more than the top QBs in this league.
I also mentioned that while L Bell is considered possibly the best RB in the game, the Steelers scored as many points per game without him as they did with him because they had a QB who could run the offense regardless.
So, getting picks from the Bills is a nice idea but what is the point? In a year or two when you NEED that next QB where will we be selecting? We probably will have to deal just as many (if not more) picks back to get to the top of the draft to select a top QB in what MAY also be a thin QB class.... and unwilling teams to trade with because they may want the guy as well.
If we do not select our QB with this pick, in a year or two we will be giving up way too much, or we will be just another one of those average teams with an average QB that is destined to just have an average season with no shot at a championship.
You aren't wrong with any of that.
But you HAVE to be convinced one of the quarterbacks is THE guy. You can't take one just because...
I'm not convinced.
Blue chip to me...only Barkley and Rosen if he checks ALL of the medical boxes.
Wow! Only 2 blue chippers?
Yes, he is. But he's also a terrific talent.
I’m no scout, but I think Barkley is a very different player than those guys. His skills out of the backfield in the passing game are better than any of those guys IMO, and make him an ideal fit for today’s NFL...and Schurmur could have a field day using him in combo with OBJ and Engram
However, I will be shocked if the Giants trade out of 2 and I'll be shocked if they don't take Barkley.
From what I have seen in my ARI tape studies, they are going to run a hybrid where half the defense will have a 4-3 look and the other half will have a 3-4 look. Chubb can be a fit.
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I wonder how he would fit in Bettcher's scheme.
Yes, he is. But he's also a terrific talent.
So is Saquan Barkley but I dont think I would draft him #2 overall if I ran a run and shoot offense.
I am sure he would be really good in any scheme but would his talents be best utilized in what we will run?
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I wonder how he would fit in Bettcher's scheme.
From what I have seen in my ARI tape studies, they are going to run a hybrid where half the defense will have a 4-3 look and the other half will have a 3-4 look. Chubb can be a fit.
Chandler Jones did really well under Bettcher.