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A POV re Webb, Eli and Barkley

Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2018 1:25 pm

Given that I don’t watch college football, there are a bunch of IFS here. IF Barkley is all that they say and IF what Joey et al have stated about his extreme versatility is correct, then his value to this O and by extension the D could be extreme.

Assuming the Giants are truly not in love with the so-called franchise QBs that will be quickly snapped up by others, they could certainly pick one later on if they are so inclined.

The Key here could very well be Shurmur. His work with Keenum and Foles (his first Eagles stint) has been rather well documented. If he feels he can work with Webb, if he feels DW has the requisite skillset to eventually ascend in production long term, then he might very well be Eli’s heir apparent. Yes, another IF here, but that could be the thinking in the Giants’ circle.

Barkley could make it much easier for an ultimate Webb transition and could, in the short term, extend the career of Eli, who by all accounts is still rather physically sound..Having Barkley as his go-to bellweather guy along with OBJ and the other offensive weapons, might very well be a way to lessen Eli’s understandable happy feet and his desperate need to make something happen out of nothing. Naturally, continuing to fix the OL will be of immeasurable importance to Eli and Webb. Having a Barkley who can make something out of nothing it would appear at times, would be huge towards aiding the OL.

Just my two cents.

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Boy I've seen some man crushes on BBI in my time  
JCin332 : 3/21/2018 2:01 pm : link
...some with Brady and Rodgers come to mind but they pale in comparison to Milton and Josh Rosen...
RE: Now contrast that with the opposite approach  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2018 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13877929 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
Draft QB early to hold a clipboard
Maybe spend a 2nd on RB with far less potential, taking away the lineman or other player we can get here. Webb most likely cut, before even getting a fair evaluation. So RB is worse, 1 less pick to contribute this year, force last year's 3rd round pick to be a bust, and force Eli out next year, likely not doing well this year. All while praying with all of your might that the QB isn't a bust for the future.

Why would Webb be cut? The Giants will carry three QB's. It's statements like this that I can't stand. You post a stupid comment to try to support your argument.

I’ve discussed Shurmur being our wildcard here a few times  
UConn4523 : 3/21/2018 2:06 pm : link
I really do think he gives us leeway in this draft. Whether that’s with Eli, Webb or another pick in round 2 or later is yet to be seen.
WB BB56!!!  
AnnapolisMike : 3/21/2018 2:07 pm : link
Good points.

The key will be the evaluation of the QB's by the Giants. and what they feel the prospects are for OL improvement. Unless they have truly made some strides with the OL...nothing they do will matter all that much.
BB56  
Chris684 : 3/21/2018 2:11 pm : link
great to have one of the good guys back!
A breath of Spring.  
3putt : 3/21/2018 2:12 pm : link
Glad to see this poster back.
No one is thinking that Webb would be cut  
Dr. D : 3/21/2018 2:12 pm : link
IF the Giants pick a QB, he would compete with Webb in a year or 2 to be the starter. The other would then be traded, hopefully for a fairly high pick.

There would be no shame if Webb lost out to Darnold for ex. and was traded for a 2021 2nd rd pick.

Why is competition good at every position except the most important position?
Webb  
Tim in VA : 3/21/2018 2:13 pm : link
Cut, continued to be buried as 3rd QB. Essentially the same. Under what circumstances might he realize any level of utilization?
Most teams carry 3 QBs  
Dr. D : 3/21/2018 2:15 pm : link
the Giants were fortunate to have the luxury of only carrying 2 for quite a few years due to Eli's durability, but they were in the minority.
RE: Boy I've seen some man crushes on BBI in my time  
Milton : 3/21/2018 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13877933 JCin332 said:
Quote:
...some with Brady and Rodgers come to mind but they pale in comparison to Milton and Josh Rosen...
You want to talk about pales in comparison?
Everything is relative! - ( New Window )
RE: Webb  
Dr. D : 3/21/2018 2:17 pm : link
In comment 13877973 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
Cut, continued to be buried as 3rd QB. Essentially the same. Under what circumstances might he realize any level of utilization?

in a year or 2 he would compete to be the starter! Shurmer and DG don't seem like the types that would give the job to Darnold or Rosen just because they were higher picks. If Webb outperformed the new guy, we trade the other.
We carried 3 last year  
Tim in VA : 3/21/2018 2:21 pm : link
And what did we learn about Webb? Trade for a 2nd round pick for someone virtually nobody knows about? Ha. Right. My point that he would be wasted (unless Eli gets cut and Rosen gets injured again, which is highly plausible, but far from ideal). Hopefully my point is coming across
barkley is the number 1 ranked RB  
msh : 3/21/2018 2:23 pm : link
you can book it he is the most accomplished blocker coming out that will elevate him to a possible day 1 starter alone on that front,he is a complete 3 down RB who can catch and run at 233 he is heavier built than most RB's even current nfl starters and he is elusive for a guy that wieght too

if they want barkleys type advantages there is a couple of others in the draft guice,michel and more of a workhorse back like nick chubb that should be avalable round 2 and in chubbs case possibly round 3 if they do take a trade back or cleveland doesnt go QB but i would be shocked at that tyrod is clearly a 1 year bridge while they get a drafted QB upto speed but none of them will be ready as quickly as barkley due to his blocking ability day1 thats why i and many of us believe he is worth the number 2 pick

this is why so many of us want barkley he will extend eli's career and giving him the playaction threat he lost since bradshaw and jacobs departure he lives off the playaction and he just hasnt had that in anything but some spurts with vereen between injuries and a solid running game will make the eventual sucession to eli that much easier thats why he is so valuable,his threat will prevent teams blanketing OBJ and engram so much too,this will allow for better time of possession and rest the defence better he will make them better in more than one area

i think the qb's (and many agree) are flawed and overhyped and not worth the pick,they lost picks with trades so a move back is also a sensible option they have plenty of holes inspite of the improved depth DG appears to have already brought in if DG wants to move back a few spots not as many as 12th and grab nelson,chubb or fitzpatrick there and use an extra pick on a second round back like guice if he is there i think he could go late first round possiblty than that too is a plan as well

clearly DG brought in shurmur to develop webb and it makes sense when you see what he did with foles,bridgewater and keenum previously and webb has more impressive physical traits than any of those guys 6-5 with a strong arm,smart a coaches son so ticks all the boxes you look for they still have time to find a successor if webb isnt it too they are on a shorter clock than you would like but they do have some time still
RE: We carried 3 last year  
Milton : 3/21/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13877996 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
And what did we learn about Webb? Trade for a 2nd round pick for someone virtually nobody knows about? Ha. Right. My point that he would be wasted (unless Eli gets cut and Rosen gets injured again, which is highly plausible, but far from ideal). Hopefully my point is coming across
In all likelihood it works like this:
2018: Eli starts, Webb is primary backup, Rosen sits (gets bigger and stronger in the meantime).
2019: Eli is traded (coming off his third Super Bowl MVP!) to the Jaguars, where he immediately signs a three year extension (a la Alex Smith trade to Redskins). Rosen wins QB competition in preseason and starts, Webb is the backup. Webb gets to start the final game of the season because the Giants are 15-0 and he lights it up with 400 yards passing and 4 TD tosses.
2020: Webb is traded for a Day Two pick. The Giants use a Day Three pick on a QB to be Rosen's backup.
RE: We carried 3 last year  
Dr. D : 3/21/2018 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13877996 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
And what did we learn about Webb? Trade for a 2nd round pick for someone virtually nobody knows about? Ha. Right. My point that he would be wasted (unless Eli gets cut and Rosen gets injured again, which is highly plausible, but far from ideal). Hopefully my point is coming across

We won't learn much about either for another year or 2. When the time comes (if they draft a QB), they will battle it out in training camp and preseason in a year or 2. Yes, they won't be contributing much until then, but QB is such an important position that it's wise to think long term, not just about the upcoming season or 2.

I'm not saying we definitely have to draft a QB, I'm just giving the rationale for it, which is reasonable.

It's fortunate to find yourself with this high a draft pick in a QB strong draft when your franchise QB is nearing retirement. Look at the teams that have been looking for a QB for decades and what they're willing to trade to move up and take one this year.
Shurmur  
Dragon : 3/21/2018 2:34 pm : link
How many here really believe Eli is all of a sudden going to become what he has never been in fourteen years in the NFL. Eli the QB is going to be the same the plays may change however the first time we all hear Omaha Omaha it’s back to the glory days. Or will he just completely change his mojo because the great Shurmur says do it?
A quick thought and a question for those who follow College:  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2018 2:35 pm : link
1-In college, was Webb as quick/elusive as Prescott has been in the pros?

2-Re Barkley, I was thinking about the huge transformation the Cowboys made from one year to the next with Zeke lessening the down and distance for Zak, making it easier to move the chains. Zak’s mobility along with their great OL certainly made it much easier for the Cowboys to be productive. It certainly helped their D, who, coming into that season, were not all that highly regarded
Webb and Prescott  
Tim in VA : 3/21/2018 2:51 pm : link
Are different QBs, but drafted in a similar position. Neither were 1st round talents coming out. But see Nick Foles and many others in history with a solid supporting cast as examples of not needing a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning
Welcome back Bruce  
TommytheElephant : 3/21/2018 2:53 pm : link
GREAT to have you back
This return of BB'56...  
bw in dc : 3/21/2018 2:55 pm : link
pisses me off. His absence is the reason I came back...

Oh well, another target to add to the daily clay pigeon shoot... ;)
RE: Webb and Prescott  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2018 2:57 pm : link
In comment 13878126 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
Are different QBs, but drafted in a similar position. Neither were 1st round talents coming out. But see Nick Foles and many others in history with a solid supporting cast as examples of not needing a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning


Webb’s mobilty? Comparable to Zak or not, iyo?
Milton  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/21/2018 3:00 pm : link
are you shilling Rosen for a sperm bank?
RE: Milton  
Milton : 3/21/2018 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13878168 gidiefor said:
Quote:
are you shilling Rosen for a sperm bank?
He's got good genes! Maybe not Tom Brady good, but he checks a lot of boxes (no pun intended)...
56, that's worth a whole lot more than two cents.  
Red Dog : 3/21/2018 3:19 pm : link
.
RE: We carried 3 last year  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2018 4:15 pm : link
In comment 13877996 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
And what did we learn about Webb? Trade for a 2nd round pick for someone virtually nobody knows about? Ha. Right. My point that he would be wasted (unless Eli gets cut and Rosen gets injured again, which is highly plausible, but far from ideal). Hopefully my point is coming across

Your point is stupid. There is a good chance that this is Eli's last season with the Giants. If they use the 2nd overall pick on a QB they will need a backup after Eli is gone. Webb would be the primary backup for two seasons. Just because Eli never missed any games doesn't mean that the next QB will stay healthy.
RE: Webb and Prescott  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2018 4:17 pm : link
In comment 13878126 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
Are different QBs, but drafted in a similar position. Neither were 1st round talents coming out. But see Nick Foles and many others in history with a solid supporting cast as examples of not needing a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning

You mean Foles who was the backup to former #2 pick Wentz? Wentz who started the first 13 games and was the main reason why the Eagles made the playoffs.
Right, so 2 quarterbacks  
Tim in VA : 3/21/2018 4:18 pm : link
With zero starts as 1 and 2? Sounds like a great plan!
And Foles came in  
Tim in VA : 3/21/2018 4:19 pm : link
And still looked great because why? Good supporting cast. I don't know why I bother sometimes
BB56  
Tim in VA : 3/21/2018 4:21 pm : link
Webb is pretty athletic but what I mean by different quarterbacks is he's not really a scrambler. Think more along the lines of a cousins. He can, but it's not his thing
RE: Right, so 2 quarterbacks  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2018 4:25 pm : link
In comment 13878414 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
With zero starts as 1 and 2? Sounds like a great plan!

Well being that they usually carry 3 QB's they could add a cheap veteran mentor.
RE: BB56  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2018 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13878424 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
Webb is pretty athletic but what I mean by different quarterbacks is he's not really a scrambler. Think more along the lines of a cousins. He can, but it's not his thing

So guys like Darnold, Allen, or Mayfield.
RE: RE: BB56  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2018 5:27 pm : link
In comment 13878444 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 13878424 Tim in VA said:


Quote:


Webb is pretty athletic but what I mean by different quarterbacks is he's not really a scrambler. Think more along the lines of a cousins. He can, but it's not his thing


So guys like Darnold, Allen, or Mayfield.


Can you clarify that?
RE: RE: RE: BB56  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2018 5:42 pm : link
In comment 13878544 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13878444 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 13878424 Tim in VA said:


Quote:


Webb is pretty athletic but what I mean by different quarterbacks is he's not really a scrambler. Think more along the lines of a cousins. He can, but it's not his thing


So guys like Darnold, Allen, or Mayfield.



Can you clarify that?

Guys who can escape pressure.
FIDDY IS BACK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
blueblood : 3/21/2018 5:43 pm : link
WELCOME BACK !!!!!!!!!!!!
And  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2018 5:50 pm : link
welcome back Fiddy.
Ah, got it Jay.  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2018 5:55 pm : link
.
BB56 - great to have you back  
Ira : 3/21/2018 5:57 pm : link
and an excellent post.
Why are all this what Ifs always the same?  
twostepgiants : 3/21/2018 6:14 pm : link
What IF- Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold and Josh Allen are all franshise QBs?
And this is Eli, Ben and Rivers again? And these 3 guys will spearhead teams for the next 15 years? And some , if not all of those teams win Super Bowl(s).

And what if one of those teams is the Jets?

What then?

And what if Eli Manning really does have only 2 years left?
And what if those years are comparable to the last 5 years (33-46 W-L)?
And 0 playoff wins?

And what if Davis Webb is like the overwhelming majority of 3rd QBs drafted the last 30 years? And the 3rd rounders drafted by Reese?

What then?

And what if the Giants are in this position while those 3 teams are racking up playoffs, division titles, and maybe championships? And if one of those teams is the New York Jets?

What then?

So nice to have you back, Bruce!  
yatqb : 3/21/2018 6:14 pm : link
.
Thanks for the warm welcomes  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2018 7:21 pm : link
.
56....  
Reb8thVA : 3/21/2018 8:35 pm : link
Welcome back. I’m starting to understand why you felt the need to take a break from ‘this place!
Yeah, Took off for 6 1/2 months to regain  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2018 8:38 pm : link
my sanity. GRIN..I wholeheartedly recommend it..😊😊
RE: Why are all this what Ifs always the same?  
Bill L : 3/21/2018 8:42 pm : link
In comment 13878603 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
What IF- Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold and Josh Allen are all franshise QBs?
And this is Eli, Ben and Rivers again? And these 3 guys will spearhead teams for the next 15 years? And some , if not all of those teams win Super Bowl(s).

And what if one of those teams is the Jets?

What then?

And what if Eli Manning really does have only 2 years left?
And what if those years are comparable to the last 5 years (33-46 W-L)?
And 0 playoff wins?

And what if Davis Webb is like the overwhelming majority of 3rd QBs drafted the last 30 years? And the 3rd rounders drafted by Reese?

What then?

And what if the Giants are in this position while those 3 teams are racking up playoffs, division titles, and maybe championships? And if one of those teams is the New York Jets?

What then?
you do realize that for every hypothetical you had, for every question you raised, there is an equally legitimate “isn’t” that could be placed there as well. Right? And the answer could be “We’re fucked”.

These are all co-equal pov’s.
Great to see you back '56  
lono801 : 3/21/2018 8:43 pm : link
Welcome home

It's an exciting time to be a Giants fan

Good or bad

And  
lono801 : 3/21/2018 8:45 pm : link
I agree with you 100%
Welcome back BB!  
Y.A. : 3/21/2018 9:49 pm : link
Now let's not the rest of us tick him off again! ;-)
.  
arcarsenal : 3/21/2018 9:50 pm : link
Welcome back, Fiddy!
BB56  
baadbill : 3/21/2018 9:56 pm : link
Missed you BB. Truly hope all is well and happy you are back.

~Bill~
Welcome back  
djm : 3/21/2018 11:48 pm : link
..
Great to See Your Voice 56  
pivo : 3/22/2018 8:50 pm : link
Just one question - did you cheat & lurk? Just wonderin ....
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