Resistance to taking QB

But I think that the Giants have to take either Darnold or Rosen at 2. The Giants are in a rare position here and they need to take advantage of it. If they pass on a QB then they will have to pay a kings ransom in a year or two to get their next franchise QB assuming that team with the top picks are actually willing to part with the picks.

Posts. Many die hard eli fans like myself have proclaimed the giants should take a QB at two. So to take shots at posters here seems unwarranted.

In comment 13878403 dep026 said:

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Posts. Many die hard eli fans like myself have proclaimed the giants should take a QB at two. So to take shots at posters here seems unwarranted.

Please show me the language that "takes shots" at anyone? I'm speculating on how some posters sentiments toward Eli are impacting their views about picking a QB at #2.

to slough them off as misguided loyalty is dismissive and offensive.

I’ll just say what your claim doesn’t seem to be factual. Only people who don’t want a qb at 2 seem to be on the Barkley train.

In comment 13878411 oldutican said:

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In comment 13878403 dep026 said: Quote: Posts. Many die hard eli fans like myself have proclaimed the giants should take a QB at two. So to take shots at posters here seems unwarranted. Please show me the language that "takes shots" at anyone? I'm speculating on how some posters sentiments toward Eli are impacting their views about picking a QB at #2.

Agree with this!!

If you think that the OP was "taking a shot" at Eli fans in his original post then you really are sensitive.

He is reputed to be as good or close to as good as what will be available in the draft. If DG and PS think they have what they need in Davis Webb, why waste a draft pick on a QB of similar abilities. Draft a player that conceivably could immediately add to the consternation of every prospective Defensive Coordinator we face.

If we go Barley at # 2, then we have a three headed offensive nightmare for the 11 men on the defensive side of the field and graying hairs for the D-Coordinators.

Like Aaron Rodgers behind Brett Favre, if Webb is that good and still sits behind Eli for possibly two years, then it's a good thing, really.

I do not think it has to do with Eli, his aura, his fan love, or anything else but his ability to run the offense on the field successfully.

In comment 13878416 Bill L said:

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to slough them off as misguided loyalty is dismissive and offensive.

Wow. I said "some posters" may feel this way. Others have different reasons, but I believe loyalty to Eli is a factor for some.

In comment 13878419 dep026 said:

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Only people who don’t want a qb at 2 seem to be on the Barkley train.

That's not really true. Plenty of posters want do NOT want a QB don't want Barkley either. They want Nelson, Chubb or a trade down (which would mean they wouldn't get Barkley).

mis-direction? Browns take barkley gmen take qb?

The man has been a great QB for us. He is top 10 in every major QB stats ALL TIME... Won two superbowls with us. How dare you not be loyal to him. Does that mean we don't draft a QB #2? No of course not, if a player is deemed worthy. I don't want to reach for a QB that isn't a lock to at least be good. Passing on a talent like Barkley or especially Nelson for a QB that is just OK doesn't make sense. To me though if you aren't taking a QB at #2 you take the haul that Pick 2 gets in a trade down. Even if it means moving down to pick 12. Just to much value you get for a trade of that type unless you are desperate for a QB which we aren't.

For the people that say don't trade down as the talent drops. If we had picks 12 and 22 along with the Bills two second rounders this year and their 1st next year... Would you really want the Giants to trade 12, 22, two second rounders, and a high first next year for Barkley or Nelson? I wouldn't.

In fact, it bubbles over at Jints Central with Mara and his fellow Sentimentalists...

But for fans, it's more than natural to be all in on a player. I was all in on LT as a player. He was the key to that Camelot Era for the Giants...

So I accept it the Cult of Eli. But in the end, this is about winning football games and, in my judgment, Eli is not the right person anymore to lead that...

In comment 13878421 Jim in Tampa said:

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In comment 13878411 oldutican said: Quote: In comment 13878403 dep026 said: Quote: Posts. Many die hard eli fans like myself have proclaimed the giants should take a QB at two. So to take shots at posters here seems unwarranted. Please show me the language that "takes shots" at anyone? I'm speculating on how some posters sentiments toward Eli are impacting their views about picking a QB at #2. Agree with this!! If you think that the OP was "taking a shot" at Eli fans in his original post then you really are sensitive.

SO, what you're saying is that people who insist we pick a QB come to the through cogent reasoning and sober contemplation and are very serious, thoughtful, and intelligent people, while people who want Barkley (or Chubb or to trade down) are just sensitive, sentimentalists who don't think but reflexively decide based on emotion and thus can be dismissed out of hand...and are just way too sensitive?

so much as belief. Watching last year I didn't see a guy who was dropping off and another QB could have done better. I saw the same Eli with a significantly flawed supporting cast. I don't think he had ever played with such lack of talent on the line, in the backfield, and at receiver. Add in a terrible game plan. I saw a guy who rightfully had no confidence in anything around him

There are many fans here that are bigger Eli fans then Giants fans. I would not be surprised if many would stop being Giants fans if tomorrow we wake up and Eli was cut.

It has been that way for a long time.

In comment 13878440 Tim in VA said:

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so much as belief. Watching last year I didn't see a guy who was dropping off and another QB could have done better. I saw the same Eli with a significantly flawed supporting cast. I don't think he had ever played with such lack of talent on the line, in the backfield, and at receiver. Add in a terrible game plan. I saw a guy who rightfully had no confidence in anything around him

Did you watch the first 5 games at full strength or all of last year before that when they made the playoffs based on the defense? Eli has not played well in the last 4 years and has not been Elite since 2011

In comment 13878425 Aloha Alan said:

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He is reputed to be as good or close to as good as what will be available in the draft. If DG and PS think they have what they need in Davis Webb, why waste a draft pick on a QB of similar abilities. Draft a player that conceivably could immediately add to the consternation of every prospective Defensive Coordinator we face. If we go Barley at # 2, then we have a three headed offensive nightmare for the 11 men on the defensive side of the field and graying hairs for the D-Coordinators. Like Aaron Rodgers behind Brett Favre, if Webb is that good and still sits behind Eli for possibly two years, then it's a good thing, really. I do not think it has to do with Eli, his aura, his fan love, or anything else but his ability to run the offense on the field successfully.

Exactly - everyone who claims the Giants have to draft a QB has basically dismissed Webb completely, and has already concluded that PS/DG have determined him not suitable as next-in-line guy for Eli.

The equalizer is what they have seen - they have seen tape on Webb, just like Rosen and Darnold

In comment 13878442 NYSports1 said:

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There are many fans here that are bigger Eli fans then Giants fans. I would not be surprised if many would stop being Giants fans if tomorrow we wake up and Eli was cut. It has been that way for a long time.

But if he does get cut, we'll gain you and people liek you, so numbers-wise, it might be a wash.

"But you HAVE to be convinced one of the quarterbacks is THE guy. You can't take one just because..."

THis is the issue. No more, no less. If they have that conviction, fine. If not, move on to Barkley or someone else or trade down.

In comment 13878411 oldutican said:

Quote:

In comment 13878403 dep026 said: Quote: Posts. Many die hard eli fans like myself have proclaimed the giants should take a QB at two. So to take shots at posters here seems unwarranted. Please show me the language that "takes shots" at anyone? I'm speculating on how some posters sentiments toward Eli are impacting their views about picking a QB at #2.

I think for some BBIers, NYG fans etc. - your premise is absolutely on point.

was THE GUY.

Accidents will happen.I don't care who they take as long as the player becomes a great Giant. Just don't blow the pick.

maybe for that cohort, their eagerness to overlook other players in favor of picking a QB is clouded as well.

so far today, off the top of my head, people who opine doing anything other than getting "a QB" have been called, sensitive, loyalists, ESPN boys, masochists, Madden players, people who would not be Giants fans at all but for Eli...

In comment 13878442 NYSports1 said:

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There are many fans here that are bigger Eli fans then Giants fans. I would not be surprised if many would stop being Giants fans if tomorrow we wake up and Eli was cut. It has been that way for a long time.

You have been here 6 months.... that isn’t a long time.

and not a position. Some of the QB at all cost folks don't seem to want to recognize that...

Picking a QB that won't succeed isn't a winning strategy. Pros spend 24/360 doing this and still get it wrong about 40-50% of the time. And yet many on BBI assume that all of the top four QBs are going to be great...

When you haven’t had to worry about a QB in over 14 yrs. you forget how tough it is to find one. You don’t mess around when you have the chance to get the next one.

In comment 13878489 Rflairr said:

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When you haven’t had to worry about a QB in over 14 yrs. you forget how tough it is to find one. You don’t mess around when you have the chance to get the next one.

Mara should remember the post Simms days. Brown, Kanell, Graham, Maddox, etc. Hopefully the Browns will make it easy for the Giants and select Allen 1st overall.

I think that's reality that some fans are having a hard time coping with.

In comment 13878501 EddieNYG said:

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I think that's reality that some fans are having a hard time coping with.

Exactly.

And with Solder now on the left side, I anticipate Eli being less skittish in the pocket. Just that alone will improve his play. I honestly believe that.

Now that guy now on the right side.............

In comment 13878425 Aloha Alan said:

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He is reputed to be as good or close to as good as what will be available in the draft. If DG and PS think they have what they need in Davis Webb, why waste a draft pick on a QB of similar abilities. Draft a player that conceivably could immediately add to the consternation of every prospective Defensive Coordinator we face. If we go Barley at # 2, then we have a three headed offensive nightmare for the 11 men on the defensive side of the field and graying hairs for the D-Coordinators. Like Aaron Rodgers behind Brett Favre, if Webb is that good and still sits behind Eli for possibly two years, then it's a good thing, really. I do not think it has to do with Eli, his aura, his fan love, or anything else but his ability to run the offense on the field successfully.

This argument continues to make zero sense to me. In what world is a late third round pick in a bad QB class close to the same prospect as 4 guys who are going to get drafted in the top 6 of a rich QB class? There was a reason nobody took Webb until the end of the third round, yet teams are desperately trying to move up into the top 5 to grab these QBs.

Who is saying that Webb is an equal prospect to any of these top 4 QBs? You?

In comment 13878416 Bill L said:

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to slough them off as misguided loyalty is dismissive and offensive.

This sums up the entire Eli Manning debate, for me.

He probably sees the need to draft a QB, if only to compete with Webb. I think he also would take the cap hit if it means that Eli will continue to play at a high level.

Cap hit really isn't an issue, nor is Webb's potential.

has nothing to do with my desire not to pick a QB at #2. Neither does Webb. My decision is based entirely on my belief that no QB is worth the #2 pick.

I am OK taking Barkley, Chubb, or Nelson at #2, but would prefer a small trade down to get a few extra picks. But I doubt that happens. My guess is that the Giants stay at #2 and take Barkley. As others have noted, he can line up in the slot, and that helps alleviate the fact that after OBJ and SS we have a lot of unknowns at WR.

In comment 13878514 NYG07 said:

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In comment 13878425 Aloha Alan said: Quote: He is reputed to be as good or close to as good as what will be available in the draft. If DG and PS think they have what they need in Davis Webb, why waste a draft pick on a QB of similar abilities. Draft a player that conceivably could immediately add to the consternation of every prospective Defensive Coordinator we face. If we go Barley at # 2, then we have a three headed offensive nightmare for the 11 men on the defensive side of the field and graying hairs for the D-Coordinators. Like Aaron Rodgers behind Brett Favre, if Webb is that good and still sits behind Eli for possibly two years, then it's a good thing, really. I do not think it has to do with Eli, his aura, his fan love, or anything else but his ability to run the offense on the field successfully. This argument continues to make zero sense to me. In what world is a late third round pick in a bad QB class close to the same prospect as 4 guys who are going to get drafted in the top 6 of a rich QB class? There was a reason nobody took Webb until the end of the third round, yet teams are desperately trying to move up into the top 5 to grab these QBs. Who is saying that Webb is an equal prospect to any of these top 4 QBs? You?

I have personally read that here on a thread or two with actual statistics (which still doesn't prove anything), and I trust Sy56 here.

If DG with PS agree that the top four QBs in this year's draft is necessary and whatever smoke and mirrors are presented, the Commissioner will let us know their true intent on April 26 not too far into the show.

In comment 13878528 Aloha Alan said:

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I have personally read that here on a thread or two with actual statistics (which still doesn't prove anything), and I trust Sy56 here. If DG with PS agree that the top four QBs in this year's draft is necessary and whatever smoke and mirrors are presented, the Commissioner will let us know their true intent on April 26 not too far into the show.

Sy never said that Webb was equal to the top 4 QB's.

In comment 13878528 Aloha Alan said:

Quote:

In comment 13878514 NYG07 said: Quote: In comment 13878425 Aloha Alan said: Quote: He is reputed to be as good or close to as good as what will be available in the draft. If DG and PS think they have what they need in Davis Webb, why waste a draft pick on a QB of similar abilities. Draft a player that conceivably could immediately add to the consternation of every prospective Defensive Coordinator we face. If we go Barley at # 2, then we have a three headed offensive nightmare for the 11 men on the defensive side of the field and graying hairs for the D-Coordinators. Like Aaron Rodgers behind Brett Favre, if Webb is that good and still sits behind Eli for possibly two years, then it's a good thing, really. I do not think it has to do with Eli, his aura, his fan love, or anything else but his ability to run the offense on the field successfully. This argument continues to make zero sense to me. In what world is a late third round pick in a bad QB class close to the same prospect as 4 guys who are going to get drafted in the top 6 of a rich QB class? There was a reason nobody took Webb until the end of the third round, yet teams are desperately trying to move up into the top 5 to grab these QBs. Who is saying that Webb is an equal prospect to any of these top 4 QBs? You? I have personally read that here on a thread or two with actual statistics (which still doesn't prove anything), and I trust Sy56 here. If DG with PS agree that the top four QBs in this year's draft is necessary and whatever smoke and mirrors are presented, the Commissioner will let us know their true intent on April 26 not too far into the show.

Sy has already said that all of these top 4 QBs are better prospects than Webb was coming out...

Not at all. It's been fun. Manning made his money. That type of loyalty would be silly in this context.

It's about what -brand of football- one enjoys watching ....and thinking about what sorts of players we could use to that end if we had 4 picks before the end of second round plus the 3-7 usuals.

Run the ball at will and use play action. And completely wreck the other teams l.o.s. always.

IIRC Sy wasn't a fan of the Giants drafting Webb last year.

Near that much better to possibly warrant the #2 pick in the draft from what I have read.

If DG goes QB, the question then becomes what truly was his order and did he get his man?

In comment 13878536 Aloha Alan said:

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Near that much better to possibly warrant the #2 pick in the draft from what I have read. If DG goes QB, the question then becomes what truly was his order and did he get his man?

Where are you reading all this garbage? If they aren't worth of the #2 pick why did the Jets trade up to 3 and why is Buffalo talking to the Browns and Giants about moving up?

In comment 13878536 Aloha Alan said:

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Near that much better to possibly warrant the #2 pick in the draft from what I have read. If DG goes QB, the question then becomes what truly was his order and did he get his man?

Well there you have it. From what you have read on the internet none of them are worth it. That explains why teams and actual NFL evaluators are tripping over themselves to trade up into the top 5 to get these guys. Yet even the Giants themselves passed twice on Webb last year.

isn't so much with Eli (I think he is lucky if he has another year left in him) but its that I really do not love any of the top tier quarterbacks.

1) Darnold - Bad throwing motion, doesn't protect the ball well.

2) Rosen - Frequently injured/concussion history

3) Allen - Weak number in a sub par division. Poor accuracy

4) Mayfield - My favorite of the bunch if I had a choice, but his temper I do not think will mesh well in NYC or with 0BJ.

I like the kid from Richmond a bit but is he any different than Webb?

I like Chubb but is he a fit for the 3-4?

I like Barkley but there are other RBs I like that we can have probably in the 3rd round like Rashaad Penny.

I do not like Nelson. I do not see what others see. I do not see a top 5 pick.

Eli and Webb. To them, those 2 might as well be dead.

In comment 13878496 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 13878489 Rflairr said: Quote: When you haven’t had to worry about a QB in over 14 yrs. you forget how tough it is to find one. You don’t mess around when you have the chance to get the next one. Mara should remember the post Simms days. Brown, Kanell, Graham, Maddox, etc. Hopefully the Browns will make it easy for the Giants and select Allen 1st overall.

I think Mara and Gettleman know you have to get the QB now. Not get cute

In comment 13878612 SHO'NUFF said:

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Eli and Webb. To them, those 2 might as well be dead.

Any teams calling the Giants asking about trading for Webb? If he’s such a good prospect, why aren’t they? If he’s as good as the guys at top of the draft. Why aren’t teams like the Cards or Bills asking about him?

In comment 13878561 Mark from Jersey said:

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isn't so much with Eli (I think he is lucky if he has another year left in him) but its that I really do not love any of the top tier quarterbacks. 1) Darnold - Bad throwing motion, doesn't protect the ball well. 2) Rosen - Frequently injured/concussion history 3) Allen - Weak number in a sub par division. Poor accuracy 4) Mayfield - My favorite of the bunch if I had a choice, but his temper I do not think will mesh well in NYC or with 0BJ. I like the kid from Richmond a bit but is he any different than Webb? I like Chubb but is he a fit for the 3-4? I like Barkley but there are other RBs I like that we can have probably in the 3rd round like Rashaad Penny. I do not like Nelson. I do not see what others see. I do not see a top 5 pick.

i bet you have trouble deciding what to order at a restaurant.

In comment 13878653 Rflairr said:

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In comment 13878612 SHO'NUFF said: Quote: Eli and Webb. To them, those 2 might as well be dead. Any teams calling the Giants asking about trading for Webb? If he’s such a good prospect, why aren’t they? If he’s as good as the guys at top of the draft. Why aren’t teams like the Cards or Bills asking about him?

A better question is why didn't we have him ahead of Geno in the depth chart all season?

My resistance is similar to what Mark From Jersey said.

I am not convinced by any of these QBs...

I would add to what Mark said about Rosen, and this concerns me more than the injuries is that I have seen reports that he has shown a lack the effort. That he was often late for meetings, and has an abrasive personality. That is not who I want in this locker room.

When I look at the QBs in this draft (and I will include Lauletta and Falk here), it smells to me like 4 busts, 2 clipboard holders, 1 decent but nothing special (think Flacco), and 1 guy who will light up the league. And I don't know who is who.

It just seems like a huge risk with the #2 pick.

I could be completely wrong about these guys, and I understand people who look at them differently. If the Giants really like one at #2, I'm all for getting him.

If nobody really stands out at #2, you can get better by going in a different direction at #2. Personally I would not take an RB or a G at #2 no matter how good they are.

If you don't think that there is a QB at #2 you like and you choose to trade down, I greatly prefer getting picks in future years so that we have the capital to go get a QB then if we need somebody. I don't like trading back to 12 in this draft, but in a trade with the Bills, I would start with both their #1s this year and #1 in 2019 and #1 in 2020, and I would still want more...

At the end of the day its all tough decisions that have to be made by people who get paid a lot of money to make these decisions.

That said, in the absence of knowing about Webb's progress, ability or potential, I understand the need to get and prep his replacement, who may not be Webb.
My guy is Mayfield, but all the QBs have ????. If there were 2 likely sure picks, I'm OK with whomever is not the other guy. At the moment SD appears the Cleveland pick, so do the Giants have a favorite of the other 4?.
If so, take him.
However, I'm also of the trade out school if the QBs do not excite them, to use the added picks to try to fill holes this draft, and hopefully additional '19 picks.

I am also of the opinion that Mayfield is the one most likely to light up the league. But, certainly no sure thing.