Sam Darnold analysis - Jeremiah and Casserly

With Favre holding the record for fumbling, Collins isn't far behind in career all-time fumbles. With Darnold's Doll Hands, he'll be getting stripped often if he doesn't learn to put 2 hands on the ball while scrambling. He never does and it will be a hard habit to correct.

In comment 13878583 SHO'NUFF said:

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always has been.

If I had a good OL and QB wasn’t 37. I would consider Barkley.

As a RS sophomore, he was playing behind a bad offensive line with not so great receivers for the first time in college. The difference in offensive talent between that freshman team and sophomore team is massive. Assuming he's going to throw a bunch of stupid interceptions as a pro assumes that (i) he's not going to look like he did his RS freshmen year and (ii) he's not going to improve from his RS sophomore year, the first time in college he started facing legit pressure.

You’ll love Darnold.

In comment 13878656 Go Terps said:

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Ball comes way down below the waist during the windup. Like he's throwing a baseball from the outfield. Here's video of Leftwich: https://youtu.be/PDBhMVDjJbY?t=18 Here's Darnold: https://youtu.be/oehb8dzrQBg?t=20

I see what you're saying but the release point is a HUGE HUGE difference. Darnold high points the football, his wind up is slow but the release point is still optimal.

In comment 13878656 Go Terps said:

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Ball comes way down below the waist during the windup. Like he's throwing a baseball from the outfield. Here's video of Leftwich: https://youtu.be/PDBhMVDjJbY?t=18 Here's Darnold: https://youtu.be/oehb8dzrQBg?t=20

Leftwich was much longer from start to finish.

In comment 13878661 jeff57 said:

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You’ll love Darnold.

#DollHands

looked like he was eventually throwing a javelin....

The ball definitely comes out fine, it's just pretty funky and opens him to fumbling the ball quite a bit. I suppose that can be coached out of him but it might not be, too.

I still like Jackson best, but of the four that seem to be the consensus I'd take Darnold. The size and feet seem to be the biggest assets.

In comment 13878665 bw in dc said:

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In comment 13878656 Go Terps said: Quote: Ball comes way down below the waist during the windup. Like he's throwing a baseball from the outfield. Here's video of Leftwich: https://youtu.be/PDBhMVDjJbY?t=18 Here's Darnold: https://youtu.be/oehb8dzrQBg?t=20 Leftwich was much longer from start to finish.

That's what she said? To me. I hate being white.

In comment 13878648 bw in dc said:

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In comment 13878641 dep026 said: Quote: And Favre in him. Main difference would be arm strength. But Favre was arm strength and making plays extemporaneously... Darnold is not that. More crafty than Favre’s athleticism. Favre comp was last year - that freak Mahomes...

Actually Josh Allen has a lot of Favre in him. More so than Mahomes if you ask me.

In comment 13878667 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 13878661 jeff57 said: Quote: You’ll love Darnold. #DollHands

Ball security can be corrected at the pro level. That’s a coaching burden....

Frankly, I wouldn’t worry about it.

I wonder about Darnold in shitty weather. That motion + slick ball + cold hand would make me wonder a little. That's one thing that Allen would seem to have going for him. Big hand and a huge arm work in the northeast.

In comment 13878675 bw in dc said:

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In comment 13878667 Diver_Down said: Quote: In comment 13878661 jeff57 said: Quote: You’ll love Darnold. #DollHands Ball security can be corrected at the pro level. That’s a coaching burden.... Frankly, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Then I guess Favre, Moon, Collins, et al. were resistant to coaching at the pro level. Some instincts are hard to correct.

In comment 13878622 allstarjim said:

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In comment 13878600 Sy'56 said: Quote: I see some Ryan Tannehill/Jake Locker here Sy, are you posting your usual pre-draft positional prospect breakdowns for us again this year? I know I speak for many when I say we are all greatly looking forward to your first installment. If so, do you have a timeline for the first one? Thanks.

Yes in a about 3 weeks I will begin

In comment 13878672 Amtoft said:

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In comment 13878648 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 13878641 dep026 said: Quote: And Favre in him. Main difference would be arm strength. But Favre was arm strength and making plays extemporaneously... Darnold is not that. More crafty than Favre’s athleticism. Favre comp was last year - that freak Mahomes... Actually Josh Allen has a lot of Favre in him. More so than Mahomes if you ask me.

I see a more athletic Roethlisberg with Allen. But I can sort of see your point....

In comment 13878657 Diver_Down said:

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With Favre holding the record for fumbling, Collins isn't far behind in career all-time fumbles. With Darnold's Doll Hands, he'll be getting stripped often if he doesn't learn to put 2 hands on the ball while scrambling. He never does and it will be a hard habit to correct.

Doll hands...I keep seeing you say this. You know his hands are bigger than Eli's and the same size as Tom Brady's and Ben Roethlisberger's, right? Do you think they all have 'doll hands'?

Let's not all overlook that he is only 20 years old with limited experience. I think Sy's comps are way off base but the guys who mentioned Tony Romo I thought was pretty accurate.
BTW, many "experts have Rosen dropping to the 4th quarterback selected.

In comment 13878656 Go Terps said:

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Ball comes way down below the waist during the windup. Like he's throwing a baseball from the outfield. Here's video of Leftwich: https://youtu.be/PDBhMVDjJbY?t=18 Here's Darnold: https://youtu.be/oehb8dzrQBg?t=20

That footage from Darnold is from 2016. He worked over summer 2017 to shorten it. Everything I've read says that his wind up may not be perfect, but he still has a quick release.

Also, where are some of you guys getting that he doesn't have a strong arm?

In comment 13878702 Sy'56 said:

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In comment 13878622 allstarjim said: Quote: In comment 13878600 Sy'56 said: Quote: I see some Ryan Tannehill/Jake Locker here Sy, are you posting your usual pre-draft positional prospect breakdowns for us again this year? I know I speak for many when I say we are all greatly looking forward to your first installment. If so, do you have a timeline for the first one? Thanks. Yes in a about 3 weeks I will begin

Thank you, Sy.

In comment 13878600 Sy'56 said:

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I see some Ryan Tannehill/Jake Locker here

Really? All due respect, I couldn't disagree more. Locker had a significant injury history and consistency issues, and Tannehill, there just wasn't enough to evaluate, plus, I don't think he ever had that it factor Darnold has.

To me, he reminds me a bit of both Brett Favre or Tony Romo. Not afraid to throw it down the field, and he's great at feeling the pressure and throwing on the run.

There are some question marks, but I think he has a more realistic upside than the two you mentioned.

In comment 13878708 allstarjim said:

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In comment 13878657 Diver_Down said: Quote: With Favre holding the record for fumbling, Collins isn't far behind in career all-time fumbles. With Darnold's Doll Hands, he'll be getting stripped often if he doesn't learn to put 2 hands on the ball while scrambling. He never does and it will be a hard habit to correct. Doll hands...I keep seeing you say this. You know his hands are bigger than Eli's and the same size as Tom Brady's and Ben Roethlisberger's, right? Do you think they all have 'doll hands'?

My use of Doll Hands doesn't directly relate to hand size, but more his inability to grip a football. They guy drops the ball on the turf too frequently. The same as Doll Hands are useless so are Darnold's.

In comment 13878735 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 13878708 allstarjim said: Quote: In comment 13878657 Diver_Down said: Quote: With Favre holding the record for fumbling, Collins isn't far behind in career all-time fumbles. With Darnold's Doll Hands, he'll be getting stripped often if he doesn't learn to put 2 hands on the ball while scrambling. He never does and it will be a hard habit to correct. Doll hands...I keep seeing you say this. You know his hands are bigger than Eli's and the same size as Tom Brady's and Ben Roethlisberger's, right? Do you think they all have 'doll hands'? My use of Doll Hands doesn't directly relate to hand size, but more his inability to grip a football. They guy drops the ball on the turf too frequently. The same as Doll Hands are useless so are Darnold's.

He threw pretty well in the rain at his Pro Day today. I don't think gripping the football will be a problem for him in the NFL. Jordan Palmer who's working with him said they addressed some hand movement changes to address it.

With Webb. He reminds of Tom Brady coming out of college.

In comment 13878643 Joey in VA said:

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In comment 13878641 dep026 said: Quote: And Favre in him. Main difference would be arm strength. Favre??? He's nothing like Favre. Favre was a squatty twitchy athlete with a quick release and a cannon, Darnold is nothing like him physically or in play style. Luck maybe but Favre???

Playing styles with favre. Sorry I wasn’t clear on that. But stature and mobility I see a lot of luck.

In comment 13878770 charlito said:

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With Webb. He reminds of Tom Brady coming out of college.

Why?

In comment 13878770 charlito said:

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With Webb. He reminds of Tom Brady coming out of college.

Other than both being white. What else reminds you of Brady? lol

In comment 13878780 dep026 said:

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In comment 13878643 Joey in VA said: Quote: In comment 13878641 dep026 said: Quote: And Favre in him. Main difference would be arm strength. Favre??? He's nothing like Favre. Favre was a squatty twitchy athlete with a quick release and a cannon, Darnold is nothing like him physically or in play style. Luck maybe but Favre??? Playing styles with favre. Sorry I wasn’t clear on that. But stature and mobility I see a lot of luck.

I was still a little young with favre, but I see both having gunslinger mentalities. Tough. Not afraid of turnovers. I know Darnold darn isn’t near what favres. I don’t know. I definitely don’t see sy comparisons.

Carr? Is Jowarski still an analyst?

Give me opinions from guys who played the position.

NOT He remains me of Sid Luckman whoever the hell that was.

How often does this work trying to overhaul someone’s natural instincts at the pro level? Darnold seems very risky to me, but he does have huge upside

In comment 13878657 Diver_Down said:

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With Favre holding the record for fumbling, Collins isn't far behind in career all-time fumbles. With Darnold's Doll Hands, he'll be getting stripped often if he doesn't learn to put 2 hands on the ball while scrambling. He never does and it will be a hard habit to correct.

This ^^

When he scrambles his instincts kick in and he holds the ball away from him one handed too often. near impossible to coach that out of him.

I think they're fair.

In comment 13878638 Joey in VA said:

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See a little Eli/Kerry Collins in Darnold. He has Eli's willingness to scan a play and keep looking downfield and Collins' build and throwing motion.

I see a lot of Kerry Collins in Davis Webb. Darnold and Collins I don’t even remotely see.

...the natural athletic ability and the arm talent make him the #1 QB and likely #1 pick in this Draft. As he should be.

Is currently on NFL Network. Darnold is about halfway through his throws

If the guy makes plays and can win games the turnovers can be an overstatement by pundits. The weird release thing is hard to ignore but a few qbs were able to overcome it. Darnold is big enough....who the fuck knows every other day I change my mind. Damnit!

And like Quinn he’ll go from predrafft Top 3-5 hype and drop out of top of draft.

and if he didnt.. The Giants would take him

In comment 13878963 jestersdead said:

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Is currently on NFL Network. Darnold is about halfway through his throws

Just caught some of that. Darnold looked leaner and fitter to me. And a good turn of foot on those roll outs. Ball was coming out of his hand very cleanly and with good zip. Seems like he had a good showing...

Darnold is going 1st,no later then 2. You don't like him,fine.Almost all the analysts have him as their #1 quarterback. The Browns are going to select him and if not, the Giants. The NFL likes Darnold for his humility,leadership and his ability to win big games. I personally question how he'll play in the cold with a slick ball.

In comment 13878805 Ivan15 said:

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Carr? Is Jowarski still an analyst? Give me opinions from guys who played the position.

Jeremiah has been an excellent talent evaluator for a long time. Former scout, and one of the best at seeing things the way that pro football teams see them when it comes to the draft.

Casserly is a former GM, drafted Mario Williams for the Texans over Reggie Bush.

Playing the game is fine, but evaluating talent is work.

I’d bet on the NFL rating Allen, Rosen and Mayfield higher and Darnold goes after them.

In comment 13879011 djm said:

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If the guy makes plays and can win games the turnovers can be an overstatement by pundits. The weird release thing is hard to ignore but a few qbs were able to overcome it. Darnold is big enough....who the fuck knows every other day I change my mind. Damnit!

The turnovers should be a concern. Can he learn techniques to correct his ball handling? Sure. Will he revert to ingrained tendencies? Likely. At some point, you are what your record says you are. He is turnover prone. This is the fact: He had 22 interceptions and 21 fumbles in 27 starts at USC. That is 43 turnovers in 27 starts.

If people are not concerned about turnovers, then how come the collective Giants fan-universe lose their minds when Eli is strip-sacked?

The NFL Network guys were talking about the Ohio State game and said he was hit 27 times in that game. 15 knockdowns just in that one game. Even the INT which I thought was a bad one, they said the receiver stopped his route.

QB hits are going to lead to turnovers, no way around it. They could not protect Darnold last year. The offensive line was an absolute mess.

Yesterday and all his throws he kept both hands on the ball until he threw it.

In comment 13879302 allstarjim said:

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The NFL Network guys were talking about the Ohio State game and said he was hit 27 times in that game. 15 knockdowns just in that one game. Even the INT which I thought was a bad one, they said the receiver stopped his route. QB hits are going to lead to turnovers, no way around it. They could not protect Darnold last year. The offensive line was an absolute mess.

I understand there are other factors that lead to turnovers. But you even admitted that you referred to Darnold's play as "Heroic". I just wish people wouldn't show their bias. Eli gets stipped or tosses an interception and he's a bum and BBI can't wait to get rid of him. Meanwhile, Darnold has averaged over 1 turnover every game. Our OL has been an absolute mess for a half a decade. No one refers to Eli's play as "Heroic" in that time.

In comment 13879376 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 13879302 allstarjim said: Quote: The NFL Network guys were talking about the Ohio State game and said he was hit 27 times in that game. 15 knockdowns just in that one game. Even the INT which I thought was a bad one, they said the receiver stopped his route. QB hits are going to lead to turnovers, no way around it. They could not protect Darnold last year. The offensive line was an absolute mess. I understand there are other factors that lead to turnovers. But you even admitted that you referred to Darnold's play as "Heroic". I just wish people wouldn't show their bias. Eli gets stipped or tosses an interception and he's a bum and BBI can't wait to get rid of him. Meanwhile, Darnold has averaged over 1 turnover every game. Our OL has been an absolute mess for a half a decade. No one refers to Eli's play as "Heroic" in that time.

It's not bias. I'm not a USC homer or a Darnold homer. I just don't know how you kill the guy when he was under duress and being hit as much as he was this year. And yes, I called him heroic in that game because that's how he played. You watch that game and watch how he competes even late in the game when it's already decided. It's like he thinks he can throw a 21-point TD.

The story of that game was the Ohio State DL just overwhelming the OL on nearly every pass play. But you wouldn't know it from watching Darnold, because he never got down on his guys, he never makes excuses, he just competes. Watch that game, watch him late and the passes he makes.

Twenty-seven times he was hit in that game.

Here's the link for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3mPUTzpjO0

Even in the pick-six, when I first watched that throw, I thought, "damn, that's a bad throw." Watch it again though, and only focus on the receiver. Receiver didn't run the route! Happens at the 1:25 mark.

In comment 13880173 allstarjim said:

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The story of that game was the Ohio State DL just overwhelming the OL on nearly every pass play. But you wouldn't know it from watching Darnold, because he never got down on his guys, he never makes excuses, he just competes. Watch that game, watch him late and the passes he makes.

This is spot on. Helton and Tee Martin had a horrible game plan - if any - and made zero adjustments for max protection...