Another blockbuster trade: Giants trading DE Jason Pierre-Paul and a 2018 fourth-round pick to Buccaneers for a 2018 third-round pick and a fourth-round pick, source tells ESPN. Per Schefter
who has had some injuries and is playing too many reps. Apple is in his 3rd year, had a decent rookie season. Bad year last year. Knew he was going to take some development. To say he hasn't shown anything is simply inaccurate.
And while I know there are people here that give me a hard time and say the salary cap doesn't matter, I would point out that we have $15 million in dead salary cap space that won't be suiting up in 2018 because we made the same mistake with JPP.
evaluation, but we have a new sheriff in town now. Things will be changing fast, Abrams is the best in the business. IF the owners let them do their jobs
Sure he was the safe choice. Mara is comfortable with him. He stuck with Eli.
Ross was tied to Reese. He was as good as gone. What will be more telling is if Gettleman fires scouts after the draft.
Hire Shurmur? Shurmur himself was the safe choice.
Not sure how signing Solder isn't "safe"... I would argue the opposite. It would have more risky to bite the bullet and rebuild at the position with a rookie.
Part ways with Pugh and Richburg? Not sure how this is indicative of either. These two got paid $90 million by other teams.
The CBs he signed are not good defensive backs. Jonathan Stewart was likely overpaid and a questionable move.
Right now, Gettleman is cleaning up the mess Ross and Reese left - but anyone would have done that.
Thus far, the biggest culture shock has been the two trades - the one for Ogletree and the trade away of JPP.
The DBs are decent depth, he didn't sign them to be starters.
Cleaning up the mess is easier said then done.
There's nothing that can be done about such contracts now. Â
Vernon's contract is structured such that they can get out of it next year. In the mean time they can see what he does as a rush LB with a different coach and scheme. It's not about 2018 anyway.
probably, he seems like a time card puncher. For his pay he should be making play after play and VERY disruptive. Another Reese screw up, but I guess he had to do something to raise the general level of play on the defense.
Giants are smart enough to know that you don't just discard talented players. Jury still out on Apple - he can turn it aournd, it's up to him and how he's handled.
Putting faith in guys to "turn it around" (Apple) or to be something they've never been (Vernon) is part of the reason this team sucks.
Vernon has to prove his value in 2018 or he's gone after this season. Same with Apple. And at Vernon's contract he may be gone anyway. The key difference is now the GM is willing to cut dead weight.
Good riddance, he was stealing money based on his play Â
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?
He always seemed to be a guy that got up for the payday then mailed it in. All I saw prior to his resigning the big contract was him posting videos how hard he was training etc. once he got paid you always saw him take some plays off put on weight etc... def not a guy that hates to lose it seems and I’m sure gettleman noticed
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?
Because sometimes you need to get a guy out of the building to really restructure the team.
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?
So you would rather keep him than acquire a 3rd round pick? That makes zero sense..
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?
Because sometimes you need to get a guy out of the building to really restructure the team.
You're next...
Ah, another Eli Hater. Cute.
Bump for a real answer. They could have cut JPP for free next year.
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?
So you would rather keep him than acquire a 3rd round pick? That makes zero sense..
One year of JPP v. a third round pick. If Gettleman is trying to win now, I would rather have JPP.
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?
That’s incorrect. He received a $20M signing bonus which is prorated against the cap over 4 years - $5M per year. If you released him next year, you’d end up with $10M in dead money on next year’s cap. Or more depending on what date they released him on.
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?
That’s incorrect. He received a $20M signing bonus which is prorated against the cap over 4 years - $5M per year. If you released him next year, you’d end up with $10M in dead money on next year’s cap. Or more depending on what date they released him on.
Wonderful. Thank you. That is what I was looking for. I like the trade.
Was a great fit for a three four end but he just stopped producing with any kind of consistency. A healthy and productive JPP could play the run and passing game extremely well in 3-4. To get out of that contract and gain a third round pick grand theft I’ve said it for sometime him and OV both needed to be traded now along with Collins who should bring the most value back.
Chubb is also not a fit for a three four end same with OV that’s too much weight advantage for the OL can’t see them lasting a full season against those odds. I don’t see OV being a good fit at OLB or ISLB he has only played DE his entire NFL career hard to change position at this point. Can you really afford to pay his salary to just a pass rush DE specialist or terrible coverage OLB? Look OV appears to have more trade value than JPP but his salary is a bit higher same third or second round offer hurry to the fax machine.
As for Collins he might fit the OLB position but he is highly overrated as a safety his coverage skills are terrible. Right now he should bring a second or third round pick with future considerations. Your getting away from a big time contract battle in the near future for limited skills but big reputation. If I did not foresee the contract problems coming I could even say let’s try to see if he will not act greedy but that’s a foolish wish just look at the contracts given in FA. This is the time to clean house in a house which needs cleaning not patching.
Was a great fit for a three four end but he just stopped producing with any kind of consistency. A healthy and productive JPP could play the run and passing game extremely well in 3-4. To get out of that contract and gain a third round pick grand theft I’ve said it for sometime him and OV both needed to be traded now along with Collins who should bring the most value back.
Chubb is also not a fit for a three four end same with OV that’s too much weight advantage for the OL can’t see them lasting a full season against those odds. I don’t see OV being a good fit at OLB or ISLB he has only played DE his entire NFL career hard to change position at this point. Can you really afford to pay his salary to just a pass rush DE specialist or terrible coverage OLB? Look OV appears to have more trade value than JPP but his salary is a bit higher same third or second round offer hurry to the fax machine.
As for Collins he might fit the OLB position but he is highly overrated as a safety his coverage skills are terrible. Right now he should bring a second or third round pick with future considerations. Your getting away from a big time contract battle in the near future for limited skills but big reputation. If I did not foresee the contract problems coming I could even say let’s try to see if he will not act greedy but that’s a foolish wish just look at the contracts given in FA. This is the time to clean house in a house which needs cleaning not patching.
thank you to JPP. 8 years as a Giant. Had some ups and downs, but mostly ups. Came into the league and dominated in year 2. I thought he should've won DPOY in 2011. Will never forget that game in Dallas where he saved the season, which ended with a SB trophy, a run that JPP was a HUGE part of. He continued to be a good all around DE, and then there was the July 4th accident, but he bounced back from that and earned another contract. I believe he is the only Reese first rounder to earn a 2nd contract with the team to this date. While he never lived up to the hype of 2011, he has been a good player for us. Sure, the contract was bloated but when all is said and done, JPP was a true Giant.
On the other side of things- GREAT trade. Clears a bit of cap space, gets the deal off the books next year as well. And we get an EARLY 3rd rounder for a 29 year old DE with a huge contract and mediocre production. JPP wasn't going to fit in this 3-4, glad we got something for him- THRILLED that it was a 3rd rounder.
RE: So all we are netting out of this is a 3rd round pick? Â
He always seemed to be a guy that got up for the payday then mailed it in. All I saw prior to his resigning the big contract was him posting videos how hard he was training etc. once he got paid you always saw him take some plays off put on weight etc... def not a guy that hates to lose it seems and I’m sure gettleman noticed
He got paid, then played 91% of all defensive snaps, more than all but a fraction of all defensive linemen.
This JPP = lazy nonsense is more infectious than swine flu
Was a great fit for a three four end but he just stopped producing with any kind of consistency. A healthy and productive JPP could play the run and passing game extremely well in 3-4. To get out of that contract and gain a third round pick grand theft I’ve said it for sometime him and OV both needed to be traded now along with Collins who should bring the most value back.
Chubb is also not a fit for a three four end same with OV that’s too much weight advantage for the OL can’t see them lasting a full season against those odds. I don’t see OV being a good fit at OLB or ISLB he has only played DE his entire NFL career hard to change position at this point. Can you really afford to pay his salary to just a pass rush DE specialist or terrible coverage OLB? Look OV appears to have more trade value than JPP but his salary is a bit higher same third or second round offer hurry to the fax machine.
As for Collins he might fit the OLB position but he is highly overrated as a safety his coverage skills are terrible. Right now he should bring a second or third round pick with future considerations. Your getting away from a big time contract battle in the near future for limited skills but big reputation. If I did not foresee the contract problems coming I could even say let’s try to see if he will not act greedy but that’s a foolish wish just look at the contracts given in FA. This is the time to clean house in a house which needs cleaning not patching.
If you think Collins is going to be traded, you are truly delusional.
Vernon's contract is structured such that they can get out of it next year. In the mean time they can see what he does as a rush LB with a different coach and scheme. It's not about 2018 anyway.
They had to pay in FA because the drafts had been so shitty and there was no one promising on the depth chart behind JPP.
You never HAVE to pay, and you certainly never have to overpay.
It's worth remembering that the best football the defense played in 2016 came AFTER JPP was hurt and Okwara took his place. I got destroyed for saying that in spring 2017, but it's an absolute fact.
The Giants were coming off a year where the defense was historically bad. The Giants had money to spend. Reese used it to buy the best defensive talent on the market at impact positions.
It was a bad move, but I see why Reese did it. People’s jobs are on the line. Short-sighted and panic decisions happen.
The JPP contract was more of a symptom than the actual disease. The core issue from Reese’s tenure was poor drafting and poor roster construction. You can’t just target WRs and CBs with your premium picks. You can’t just hit on one or two guys per draft. You can’t just let the talent slowly erode in the trenches. That’s what’s happened since the last SB and that’s why the results have been dogshit.
Giants are smart enough to know that you don't just discard talented players. Jury still out on Apple - he can turn it aournd, it's up to him and how he's handled.
Putting faith in guys to "turn it around" (Apple) or to be something they've never been (Vernon) is part of the reason this team sucks.
Vernon was an all-pro and Jenkins was a top 3 corner in ‘16. I think it’s fair to give them a pass for last year’s shit show. If they suck this year then make a decision.
You’ve said Von Miller is worth his contract. You’d be singing the same tune about him based on his ‘17 numbers if you held him to the same standard.
Kind of silly to close the book on a second year player. Â
By similar logic the Rams should've cut jared goff based on how terrifying he played as a rookie. Why have faith that he can turn it around?
You can't be furious about the team spending money in free agency and also toss out cost controlled players like used tissues. If what you claim to want is to build through the draft, you'd better be prepared to deal with developmental stumbles that can still pan out and also accept failure as a possible outcome.
What's silly is to abide a locker room full of poisonous personalities. It's also silly that everyone is so happy to see Reese gone but at the same time gives the fruit of his poor work the benefit of the doubt.
None of these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not a single one.
What's silly is to abide a locker room full of poisonous personalities. It's also silly that everyone is so happy to see Reese gone but at the same time gives the fruit of his poor work the benefit of the doubt.
None of these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not a single one.
Denver had a pretty shitty year too and Von Miller looked pretty pedestrian vs the Giants shitty OL. Should Denver dump him too?
People get it. Changes needed to be made and are being made but it doesn’t make sense to throw the baby out with the bath water.
This would have been fabulous if we got a 7th out of it let alone a 3rd.
I wish JPP nothing but the best (Except when he plays against the Giants) but there was no way he was worth anywhere close to his contract.
Was the GM as DG is today the real problems lies in FA 99% of us Happy to see JPP gone and receive a 3rd round pick. Why is that maybe 60/40 split on happiness when he resigned if he walked away at that point you could have gotten the same value a year later without the big contract little return.
Solder is DG’s gamble now the NFC East is a different world then he has been used to these teams hate each other not the post Cold War division dominated by NE. Today an 88/12% split of happy fans to see him signed will this prove to be a good thing or just another fantasy. He is a good player on the backside of his career who we elevated to one of the best LT in the game payment wise we all have to HOPE once again that works out positively for the team.
This is a process many teams are facing by using FA as a method to supposedly change your talent level overnight. This is a process that has a less than 20% happy ending for us and most teams yet we are still playing Russian roulette with it.
What's silly is to abide a locker room full of poisonous personalities. It's also silly that everyone is so happy to see Reese gone but at the same time gives the fruit of his poor work the benefit of the doubt.
None of these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not a single one.
Spent a lot of time getting to know these personalities, have you? And that's not to absolve anyone of the things we do know happened. I'm not interesting in talking about assumed offenses.
And to be quite frank, you don't really qualify for benefit of the doubt either. You've demonstrated to be prone to make sweeping judgements based on emotional swings. You'd be the GM you hate.
I've also demonstrated being right about how things were going to go Â
Ross was tied to Reese. He was as good as gone. What will be more telling is if Gettleman fires scouts after the draft.
Hire Shurmur? Shurmur himself was the safe choice.
Not sure how signing Solder isn't "safe"... I would argue the opposite. It would have more risky to bite the bullet and rebuild at the position with a rookie.
Part ways with Pugh and Richburg? Not sure how this is indicative of either. These two got paid $90 million by other teams.
The CBs he signed are not good defensive backs. Jonathan Stewart was likely overpaid and a questionable move.
Right now, Gettleman is cleaning up the mess Ross and Reese left - but anyone would have done that.
Thus far, the biggest culture shock has been the two trades - the one for Ogletree and the trade away of JPP.
The DBs are decent depth, he didn't sign them to be starters.
Cleaning up the mess is easier said then done.
probably, he seems like a time card puncher. For his pay he should be making play after play and VERY disruptive. Another Reese screw up, but I guess he had to do something to raise the general level of play on the defense.
Quote:
Giants are smart enough to know that you don't just discard talented players. Jury still out on Apple - he can turn it aournd, it's up to him and how he's handled.
Putting faith in guys to "turn it around" (Apple) or to be something they've never been (Vernon) is part of the reason this team sucks.
Vernon has to prove his value in 2018 or he's gone after this season. Same with Apple. And at Vernon's contract he may be gone anyway. The key difference is now the GM is willing to cut dead weight.
Lets wrap up the trade of Eli and keep this momentum going...
I will always remember that Dallas game..
Because sometimes you need to get a guy out of the building to really restructure the team.
You're next...
So you would rather keep him than acquire a 3rd round pick? That makes zero sense..
Quote:
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?
Because sometimes you need to get a guy out of the building to really restructure the team.
You're next...
Ah, another Eli Hater. Cute.
Bump for a real answer. They could have cut JPP for free next year.
Quote:
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?
So you would rather keep him than acquire a 3rd round pick? That makes zero sense..
One year of JPP v. a third round pick. If Gettleman is trying to win now, I would rather have JPP.
That’s incorrect. He received a $20M signing bonus which is prorated against the cap over 4 years - $5M per year. If you released him next year, you’d end up with $10M in dead money on next year’s cap. Or more depending on what date they released him on.
Quote:
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?
That’s incorrect. He received a $20M signing bonus which is prorated against the cap over 4 years - $5M per year. If you released him next year, you’d end up with $10M in dead money on next year’s cap. Or more depending on what date they released him on.
Wonderful. Thank you. That is what I was looking for. I like the trade.
Chubb is also not a fit for a three four end same with OV that’s too much weight advantage for the OL can’t see them lasting a full season against those odds. I don’t see OV being a good fit at OLB or ISLB he has only played DE his entire NFL career hard to change position at this point. Can you really afford to pay his salary to just a pass rush DE specialist or terrible coverage OLB? Look OV appears to have more trade value than JPP but his salary is a bit higher same third or second round offer hurry to the fax machine.
As for Collins he might fit the OLB position but he is highly overrated as a safety his coverage skills are terrible. Right now he should bring a second or third round pick with future considerations. Your getting away from a big time contract battle in the near future for limited skills but big reputation. If I did not foresee the contract problems coming I could even say let’s try to see if he will not act greedy but that’s a foolish wish just look at the contracts given in FA. This is the time to clean house in a house which needs cleaning not patching.
Chubb is also not a fit for a three four end same with OV that’s too much weight advantage for the OL can’t see them lasting a full season against those odds. I don’t see OV being a good fit at OLB or ISLB he has only played DE his entire NFL career hard to change position at this point. Can you really afford to pay his salary to just a pass rush DE specialist or terrible coverage OLB? Look OV appears to have more trade value than JPP but his salary is a bit higher same third or second round offer hurry to the fax machine.
As for Collins he might fit the OLB position but he is highly overrated as a safety his coverage skills are terrible. Right now he should bring a second or third round pick with future considerations. Your getting away from a big time contract battle in the near future for limited skills but big reputation. If I did not foresee the contract problems coming I could even say let’s try to see if he will not act greedy but that’s a foolish wish just look at the contracts given in FA. This is the time to clean house in a house which needs cleaning not patching.
Stopped reading at "trade collins"
On the other side of things- GREAT trade. Clears a bit of cap space, gets the deal off the books next year as well. And we get an EARLY 3rd rounder for a 29 year old DE with a huge contract and mediocre production. JPP wasn't going to fit in this 3-4, glad we got something for him- THRILLED that it was a 3rd rounder.
No, less than that. We're giving them our 4th round spot and moving down to theirs.
He got paid, then played 91% of all defensive snaps, more than all but a fraction of all defensive linemen.
This JPP = lazy nonsense is more infectious than swine flu
Chubb is also not a fit for a three four end same with OV that’s too much weight advantage for the OL can’t see them lasting a full season against those odds. I don’t see OV being a good fit at OLB or ISLB he has only played DE his entire NFL career hard to change position at this point. Can you really afford to pay his salary to just a pass rush DE specialist or terrible coverage OLB? Look OV appears to have more trade value than JPP but his salary is a bit higher same third or second round offer hurry to the fax machine.
As for Collins he might fit the OLB position but he is highly overrated as a safety his coverage skills are terrible. Right now he should bring a second or third round pick with future considerations. Your getting away from a big time contract battle in the near future for limited skills but big reputation. If I did not foresee the contract problems coming I could even say let’s try to see if he will not act greedy but that’s a foolish wish just look at the contracts given in FA. This is the time to clean house in a house which needs cleaning not patching.
If you think Collins is going to be traded, you are truly delusional.
His dead money is only $6mm next year. Easily a cut candidate getting twice as much back for that.
That said I think this defense could be really good for him. I'm hoping he has a bounce back year. I like Vernon.
Quote:
They had to pay in FA because the drafts had been so shitty and there was no one promising on the depth chart behind JPP.
You never HAVE to pay, and you certainly never have to overpay.
It's worth remembering that the best football the defense played in 2016 came AFTER JPP was hurt and Okwara took his place. I got destroyed for saying that in spring 2017, but it's an absolute fact.
The Giants were coming off a year where the defense was historically bad. The Giants had money to spend. Reese used it to buy the best defensive talent on the market at impact positions.
It was a bad move, but I see why Reese did it. People’s jobs are on the line. Short-sighted and panic decisions happen.
The JPP contract was more of a symptom than the actual disease. The core issue from Reese’s tenure was poor drafting and poor roster construction. You can’t just target WRs and CBs with your premium picks. You can’t just hit on one or two guys per draft. You can’t just let the talent slowly erode in the trenches. That’s what’s happened since the last SB and that’s why the results have been dogshit.
Quote:
Giants are smart enough to know that you don't just discard talented players. Jury still out on Apple - he can turn it aournd, it's up to him and how he's handled.
Putting faith in guys to "turn it around" (Apple) or to be something they've never been (Vernon) is part of the reason this team sucks.
Vernon was an all-pro and Jenkins was a top 3 corner in ‘16. I think it’s fair to give them a pass for last year’s shit show. If they suck this year then make a decision.
You’ve said Von Miller is worth his contract. You’d be singing the same tune about him based on his ‘17 numbers if you held him to the same standard.
By similar logic the Rams should've cut jared goff based on how terrifying he played as a rookie. Why have faith that he can turn it around?
You can't be furious about the team spending money in free agency and also toss out cost controlled players like used tissues. If what you claim to want is to build through the draft, you'd better be prepared to deal with developmental stumbles that can still pan out and also accept failure as a possible outcome.
None of these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not a single one.
None of these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not a single one.
Denver had a pretty shitty year too and Von Miller looked pretty pedestrian vs the Giants shitty OL. Should Denver dump him too?
People get it. Changes needed to be made and are being made but it doesn’t make sense to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I don't know why you keep bringing up Von Miller. He isn't on this team and he's significantly better than any player on our roster at any position.
I wish JPP nothing but the best (Except when he plays against the Giants) but there was no way he was worth anywhere close to his contract.
Yet another example of the fiasco known as Reese
Solder is DG’s gamble now the NFC East is a different world then he has been used to these teams hate each other not the post Cold War division dominated by NE. Today an 88/12% split of happy fans to see him signed will this prove to be a good thing or just another fantasy. He is a good player on the backside of his career who we elevated to one of the best LT in the game payment wise we all have to HOPE once again that works out positively for the team.
This is a process many teams are facing by using FA as a method to supposedly change your talent level overnight. This is a process that has a less than 20% happy ending for us and most teams yet we are still playing Russian roulette with it.
I don't know why you keep bringing up Von Miller. He isn't on this team and he's significantly better than any player on our roster at any position.
The point is you don’t dump guys under 30 who are a season removed from all-pro years.
Now Apple/Flowers? No problem. I suspect their time here is running out.
None of these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not a single one.
Spent a lot of time getting to know these personalities, have you? And that's not to absolve anyone of the things we do know happened. I'm not interesting in talking about assumed offenses.
And to be quite frank, you don't really qualify for benefit of the doubt either. You've demonstrated to be prone to make sweeping judgements based on emotional swings. You'd be the GM you hate.