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JPP has been traded

Ray_Ray (NYG) : 3/22/2018 10:08 am
Another blockbuster trade: Giants trading DE Jason Pierre-Paul and a 2018 fourth-round pick to Buccaneers for a 2018 third-round pick and a fourth-round pick, source tells ESPN. Per Schefter
Wow  
Chef : 3/22/2018 10:09 am : link
!
WOW!  
ZogZerg : 3/22/2018 10:09 am : link
HOLY CRAP!!

our GM has been busy!
salary dump  
Essex : 3/22/2018 10:09 am : link
because we didn't get much back for him
I saw that  
jvm52106 : 3/22/2018 10:10 am : link
on twitter too
WOW!  
BigBlueHens : 3/22/2018 10:10 am : link
How did Gettleman find someone to take that contract?!?!
WHAT THE....  
Ryan in Albany : 3/22/2018 10:10 am : link
!!
That means  
jvm52106 : 3/22/2018 10:10 am : link
Chubb clearly is being targeted.
good.... the GM isnt playing around  
GMAN4LIFE : 3/22/2018 10:11 am : link
.
RE: WOW!  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:11 am : link
In comment 13879396 BigBlueHens said:
Quote:
How did Gettleman find someone to take that contract?!?!


We're the ones going to be hit with the singing bonus.
Hello...  
Strip-Sack : 3/22/2018 10:11 am : link
Mr. Chubb!!!
Definitely a  
Josh in the City : 3/22/2018 10:11 am : link
salary cap move. And possibly Betcher doesn't think he's a great fit in our new scheme?
Holy shit....  
NYG07 : 3/22/2018 10:11 am : link
Shocking news. How much of a cap hit are they taking for the trade?
Fantastic  
JonC : 3/22/2018 10:11 am : link
hello Chubb.
Guess Chubb is in play  
UConn4523 : 3/22/2018 10:11 am : link
which doesnt excite me, but I get it
RE: That means  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 3/22/2018 10:11 am : link
In comment 13879399 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Chubb clearly is being targeted.

Not at #2. So possible trade down.
guess  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:11 am : link
what... Chubb is now REALLY in play.
Didn't see that one coming, wow  
Giantology : 3/22/2018 10:11 am : link
.
Why would we do that  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/22/2018 10:12 am : link
makes no sense at all.

Now we have a glaring hole at RDE.
Well done  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 10:12 am : link
.
So all we are netting out of this is a 3rd round pick?  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 3/22/2018 10:12 am : link
?
Wow  
Jeff : 3/22/2018 10:12 am : link
How much cap space does this save us ?
Jerry's only first round pick  
Diver_Down : 3/22/2018 10:12 am : link
that signed a second contract here. Good luck, JPP!
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:12 am : link

Ian Rapoport
‏Verified account @RapSheet
1m1 minute ago

The #Bucs give up a third-round pick and swap fourth round picks with the #Giants in exchange for JPP. A whole new world with the #Giants.
RE: Wow  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:13 am : link
In comment 13879415 Jeff said:
Quote:
How much cap space does this save us ?


Actually, I'm pretty sure we're going to take a big cap hit.
salary cap dump for 2019  
Chip : 3/22/2018 10:13 am : link
Beckham and Collins need to be signed.
Buy our way out of his ornerous deal  
JonC : 3/22/2018 10:13 am : link
endorsed.
I dont see this as an automatic play for Chubb  
rsmith32 : 3/22/2018 10:13 am : link
Tomlinson Snacks and Vernon...JPP was expendible with the new 3-4 look, no?
RE: salary cap dump for 2019  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 3/22/2018 10:13 am : link
In comment 13879421 Chip said:
Quote:
Beckham and Collins need to be signed.

THIS
I'm a fan  
Giantfan in skinland : 3/22/2018 10:14 am : link
Take the hit and move on for the future. Short term pain for long term gain.
Precursor to a deal up  
UberAlias : 3/22/2018 10:14 am : link
to 1 for Darnold.
Thank God!!  
NJ_GIANTS : 3/22/2018 10:14 am : link
That was not going to be a good contract for us. I wish we traded earlier in FA, could have gotten some better guys.

Plus with the move to a 3-4 he just didn't fit. Chubb too is not a 3-4 guy. One of the benefits of running a 3-4 is we can get tweeners later in the draft and we just signed a bunch of guys. TB looks better with the move.
RE: Why would we do that  
jvm52106 : 3/22/2018 10:14 am : link
In comment 13879412 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
makes no sense at all.

Now we have a glaring hole at RDE.


Makes more sense now that we are interested in Chubb. We couldn't tie so much money up with 3 DE's like that.

I bet we move down to 4. Cleveland can get their QB and RB 1 and 2.
Isn't this more of a "we're switching to a 3-4 front"  
Giants in 07 : 3/22/2018 10:14 am : link
move rather than a "we're trading a DE because we want to draft a DE" move?
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:14 am : link

Kimberly Jones
‏Verified account @KimJonesSports
10s10 seconds ago

Kimberly Jones Retweeted Ian Rapoport

So #NYG trade JPP for a 3rd.
If anything  
RAIN : 3/22/2018 10:14 am : link
Edwards may make more sense in the 3-4.
i don't see what this has to do with chubb  
GiantsFan84 : 3/22/2018 10:15 am : link
JPP was never going to be a 3-4 OLB. if anything they could have tried him at DE

the OLB are going to be vernon and martin no? If the plan was to draft Chubb at 2, why sign martin to the deal that they did?
I'm going to throw my remote  
yankeeslover : 3/22/2018 10:15 am : link
If we pass up a potential franchise QB or Barkley for Chubb. Especially with the 2nd pick. Better trade down now if looking at Chubb
Seems like we got hosed a bit, no?  
KerrysFlask : 3/22/2018 10:15 am : link
.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:15 am : link

Dan Duggan
‏Verified account @DDuggan21
55s56 seconds ago

Dan Duggan Retweeted Ian Rapoport

So the Giants get No. 69 overall from the Bucs. Now have No. 66 and 69 in the third round. And they gave up No. 102 overall in exchange for No. 108 overall in the fourth round
so JPP and move down 6 slots in round 4  
bluepepper : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
for a 3rd rounder.
Small cap saving for 2018  
shyster : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
it looks.

Live cap would have been 12.5.

Dead cap is 11.25

Small saving indeed but not an actual hit.
RE: That means  
Vanzetti : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
In comment 13879399 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Chubb clearly is being targeted.


Doubt it. Chubb is not. 3-4 DE and All signs are that Giants are switching to 3-4.

I think it was just a salary dump. JPP is not a 3-4 DE either and really had no place on the team that could justify his salary
nice to see someone take the fucking contract  
GMAN4LIFE : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
free up salary
Damn, no messing around  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
excited to see the new 34 defense though. Im sure JPP will love being back in FL.
RE: Wow  
bigbluescot : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
In comment 13879415 Jeff said:
Quote:
How much cap space does this save us ?


According to overthecap's calculator: we save $1,945,000
RE: That means  
mphbullet36 : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
In comment 13879399 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Chubb clearly is being targeted.


how so? It just means we are officially moving to a 3-4 and JPP is a prototype 4-3 DE...
welp  
djm : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
it won't keep me awake at night. Got a 3rd...frees up the cap bla bla...

I never complain when you take a big salary and exchange it for even a limited asset in return.

I did question whether JPP could play 3-4 end. He seeems too long for that role. This seems to confirm it.

I'm happy we have Vernon here. We need him more than ever and I suspect he's much better served for the 3-4 edge rusher than JPP was.
3rd rounder and Cap Hit  
ZogZerg : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
Go Terps was right!
like I've been saying  
JonC : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
don't want JPP at 3-4 OLB and he's wasted at 3-4 DE.
so that's JPP and #102 for...  
Mike in St. Louis : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
#69 and #108? assuming the picks are all this year.
I stand corrected...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link

Field Yates
‏Verified account @FieldYates
1m1 minute ago

While trading Jason Pierre-Paul will save the Giants $12.5M in cash this season, he'll still count for $15M in dead money against the cap for the G-Men.
Cap Details  
Diver_Down : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
will have to wait as to who is on the hook for the salary. He had $7.25M guaranteed of his 2018 salary. And on 3/18, an additional $4M was guaranteed. I presume the Bucs will eat the salary guarantees. His contract is a mess.
JPP contract - ( New Window )
Go Terps must be popping open a bottle of  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/22/2018 10:16 am : link
his finest alcoholic drink right now.
Giants love Chubb  
JonC : 3/22/2018 10:17 am : link
scheme fit a non-issue.
RE: Seems like we got hosed a bit, no?  
bigbluescot : 3/22/2018 10:17 am : link
In comment 13879436 KerrysFlask said:
Quote:
.


Not really. It's a salary dump, not so much for this year but it gives us a lot more flexibility going forward. We pick up an extra 3rd which isn't great, the fourth is only a drop of 6 spots.
RE: So all we are netting out of this is a 3rd round pick?  
ron mexico : 3/22/2018 10:17 am : link
In comment 13879414 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
?


less, since we end up with a lower pick in the 4th
Now they deal their 2nd rounder to Cleveland  
UberAlias : 3/22/2018 10:17 am : link
To move up to 1.
Wow.  
AcidTest : 3/22/2018 10:17 am : link
But totally the right move. We have to eat his signing bonus, but are free of his contract. DG got what he could. Added an extra third, so we're up to six picks. I actually think this makes a trade down less likely since we now have an extra day two pick. Chubb is definitely in play at #2.
They Signed Martin to be the OLB on the left side and Mauro  
Rjanyg : 3/22/2018 10:18 am : link
will be the LDE. This means that they essentially replace JPP and traded him.
.  
Giants in 07 : 3/22/2018 10:18 am : link
Spotrac

Verified account

@spotrac
Follow Follow @spotrac
More Spotrac Retweeted Adam Schefter
JPP leaves behind a whopping $15M in dead cap per this trade, clearing just $2.5M in cap space for the #Giants.
I dont see how drafting for need at 2 makes sense  
Sean : 3/22/2018 10:18 am : link
.
Cap Effect  
giants#1 : 3/22/2018 10:18 am : link
$15M dead money for the Giants, but a $2.5M cap savings.

Frees up a ton of space in 2019/20 when they'll need to re-sign Beckham and Collins.
Isnt JPP on vacaTion ?  
rdt288 : 3/22/2018 10:19 am : link
Saw him on instagram
Great trade!  
Tark10 : 3/22/2018 10:19 am : link
JPP will never be that great again. His best days are behind him.. Good run stopper. Can't rush passer anymore. Still hoping for either Nelson, Barkley. Gettlemen said O-line gets first priority. Nelson and then a center as a second pick.
Wow.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 10:19 am : link
.
great move.  
Victor in CT : 3/22/2018 10:19 am : link
high 3 1/2 for Gettleman!
This is a really  
ryanmkeane : 3/22/2018 10:19 am : link
high 3rd round pick. I like it.
Are we ready to admit  
ThatLimerickGuy : 3/22/2018 10:19 am : link
That I was right when I was all alone screaming For the Giants not to re-sign a guy with 7 fingers and a serious immaturity problem?
RE: So all we are netting out of this is a 3rd round pick?  
Jon in NYC : 3/22/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 13879414 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
?


And a bunch of cap relief.
RE: Are we ready to admit  
Jon in NYC : 3/22/2018 10:20 am : link
In comment 13879472 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
That I was right when I was all alone screaming For the Giants not to re-sign a guy with 7 fingers and a serious immaturity problem?


No? They just got a 3rd round pick because they re-signed him.
RE: Small cap saving for 2018  
mphbullet36 : 3/22/2018 10:20 am : link
In comment 13879439 shyster said:
Quote:
it looks.

Live cap would have been 12.5.

Dead cap is 11.25

Small saving indeed but not an actual hit.


12 million is small savings?
Only  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:20 am : link
$2.5 million this year.


Dan Duggan
‏Verified account @DDuggan21
4s5 seconds ago

Dan Duggan Retweeted ZAD

Just $2.5M this year. But huge for the future because he's off the books instead of having a $19.5M cap hit in 2019 and $17.5M in 2020
EXCELLENT  
FatHeadTommy : 3/22/2018 10:20 am : link
Should have cut him before the smoke from the fireworks had even cleared. Certainly never should have re-signed him.
This does not mean Chubb  
Rjanyg : 3/22/2018 10:21 am : link
It just muddies the water even more with the 1st round pick
Could this be  
old man : 3/22/2018 10:21 am : link
A trade with Denver looming, if its Chubb?
Don't see him at #2, but Denver's #5, then 34,37, whatever after that. A nice '18 haul.
Denver's 1st or 2nd in '19, or whatever.
QB
QB
QB,
Barkley,
CHUBB.
Looking at over the cap if cut next year we were looking at 10 mil  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 3/22/2018 10:21 am : link
dead money.

So I think we essentially got the 69th pick this year and avoid that 10 mil in dead money next offseason.
That's a good trade for us.  
yatqb : 3/22/2018 10:21 am : link
Time to move on. There should be some good young talent at #69.

And we didn't sign Mauro and Wynn for no reason.

RE: RE: Small cap saving for 2018  
shyster : 3/22/2018 10:22 am : link
In comment 13879475 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
In comment 13879439 shyster said:


Quote:


it looks.

Live cap would have been 12.5.

Dead cap is 11.25

Small saving indeed but not an actual hit.



12 million is small savings?


The cap saving would be the difference between the two.

I took this from spotrac. May not be quite right given the other numbers in the thread, but the concept is the same:
small net cap save for 2018.
We got the #69 pick?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/22/2018 10:23 am : link
Nice.
We  
AcidTest : 3/22/2018 10:23 am : link
didn't get hosed. That's all we were going to get for a guy missing most of his right hand. And as others have noted, JPP doesn't fit our 3-4 defense, and is not an OLB. Chubb is also better suited for a 4-3, but we'll run a lot of 4-3 looks, he's younger, has all his fingers, and as JonC notes, the Giants love him.
..  
BeckShepEli : 3/22/2018 10:23 am : link
We save about 2.5 million this year but next years a lot of money per Dan Duggan

Dan Duggan

Verified account

@DDuggan21
3m
3 minutes ago


More
Dan Duggan Retweeted ZAD
Just $2.5M this year. But huge for the future because he's off the books instead of having a $19.5M cap hit in 2019 and $17.5M in 2020
Wow.  
bceagle05 : 3/22/2018 10:23 am : link
.
I'm not convinced  
ryanmkeane : 3/22/2018 10:23 am : link
Cleveland would take Barkley at #4. And even if they did, Chubb at 5 would make a hell of a lot of sense especially if we acquired a great haul.
RE: RE: RE: Small cap saving for 2018  
mphbullet36 : 3/22/2018 10:24 am : link
In comment 13879483 shyster said:
Quote:
In comment 13879475 mphbullet36 said:


Quote:


In comment 13879439 shyster said:


Quote:


it looks.

Live cap would have been 12.5.

Dead cap is 11.25

Small saving indeed but not an actual hit.



12 million is small savings?



The cap saving would be the difference between the two.

I took this from spotrac. May not be quite right given the other numbers in the thread, but the concept is the same:
small net cap save for 2018.


the real question is the savings next year...because FA is pretty much over this year (no big names out there). But what are the savings next year when in theory we have to pay OBJ
RE: We  
bigbluescot : 3/22/2018 10:24 am : link
In comment 13879486 AcidTest said:
Quote:
didn't get hosed. That's all we were going to get for a guy missing most of his right hand. And as others have noted, JPP doesn't fit our 3-4 defense, and is not an OLB. Chubb is also better suited for a 4-3, but we'll run a lot of 4-3 looks, he's younger, has all his fingers, and as JonC notes, the Giants love him.


Even on Chubb, I've seen a few people compare him to a more athletic Chandler Jones. Jones got 17 sacks last year under Bettcher playing a mix of 3-4 end and 3-4 olb.
RE: That means  
djm : 3/22/2018 10:25 am : link
In comment 13879399 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Chubb clearly is being targeted.


I keep hearing this. I don't buy it for a second.
RE: Go Terps must be popping open a bottle of  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 10:25 am : link
In comment 13879452 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
his finest alcoholic drink right now.


They now have a ton of money to re-sign beckham. He's probably furious.
This  
Jon in NYC : 3/22/2018 10:25 am : link
move has nothing to do with Chubb. It has everything to do with salary cap flexibility and stocking up on draft picks.
Holy hell...  
GiantFanInTX : 3/22/2018 10:26 am : link
Could the philosophies of the two GMs (Reese and DG) be any more different? Should be interesting. This seems to me like a multi year rebuild.
WTF?  
jeff57 : 3/22/2018 10:26 am : link
.
RE: Damn, no messing around  
old man : 3/22/2018 10:26 am : link
In comment 13879442 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
excited to see the new 34 defense though. Im sure JPP will love being back in FL.


And back to NY. Bucs on our schedule this year.
Crazy  
AcidTest : 3/22/2018 10:26 am : link
thought: The Giants trade down and target Marcus Davenport.
RE: RE: We  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 10:26 am : link
In comment 13879493 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
In comment 13879486 AcidTest said:


Quote:


didn't get hosed. That's all we were going to get for a guy missing most of his right hand. And as others have noted, JPP doesn't fit our 3-4 defense, and is not an OLB. Chubb is also better suited for a 4-3, but we'll run a lot of 4-3 looks, he's younger, has all his fingers, and as JonC notes, the Giants love him.



Even on Chubb, I've seen a few people compare him to a more athletic Chandler Jones. Jones got 17 sacks last year under Bettcher playing a mix of 3-4 end and 3-4 olb.


If that's true, it's an important point. Chandler Jones was a huge part of their defense. Played over 1,000 snaps last year as a LB.
now trade back with Denver  
giants#1 : 3/22/2018 10:26 am : link
Pick up an extra #2, #3 and 2019 #1. Then draft Barkley or Chubb at 5.
Anyone who say's  
jvm52106 : 3/22/2018 10:27 am : link
all we got is 2.5 mil in savings and complain about Dead money really takes dead money too seriously. If the Giants needed the 2.5 mil space, it doesn't matter that they got rid of JPP. If we plan on replacing him with draft picks then who cares (draft picks are allotted a certain amount anyway).

I think a trade down is coming too.
Gettleman  
Harvest Blend : 3/22/2018 10:27 am : link
my new man crush. Great job!
This..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/22/2018 10:27 am : link
flew under the radar! Loved it.

Quote:
great move.
Victor in CT : 10:19 am : link : reply
high 3 1/2 for Gettleman!
RE: RE: That means  
bigbluescot : 3/22/2018 10:27 am : link
In comment 13879496 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13879399 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


Chubb clearly is being targeted.



I keep hearing this. I don't buy it for a second.


I don't think Chubb is the pick, but Michael Lombardi made a rare good point, that he knows organizationally the Giants grading system will give Chubb an extremely high grade. I doubt Gettleman's changed it that much. So it wouldn't surprise me.
Don't see how this is a cap savings  
BillT : 3/22/2018 10:27 am : link
$15m in prorated signing bonus money accelerated. $12.5m in salary/bonuses gone. Isn't that -$2.5m?
Great trade  
muhajir : 3/22/2018 10:28 am : link
For us. Really surprised JPP netted a 3rd. Having a GM that wheels and deals is going to be fun.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Small cap saving for 2018  
shyster : 3/22/2018 10:28 am : link
In comment 13879491 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
In comment 13879483 shyster said:


Quote:


In comment 13879475 mphbullet36 said:


Quote:


In comment 13879439 shyster said:


Quote:


it looks.

Live cap would have been 12.5.

Dead cap is 11.25

Small saving indeed but not an actual hit.



12 million is small savings?



The cap saving would be the difference between the two.

I took this from spotrac. May not be quite right given the other numbers in the thread, but the concept is the same:
small net cap save for 2018.



the real question is the savings next year...because FA is pretty much over this year (no big names out there). But what are the savings next year when in theory we have to pay OBJ


spotrac switched JPP's numbers to Tampa Bay's perspective with lightning speed. I didn't catch that at first. Doesn't change bottom line much for 2018 but have to go elsewhere to retrieve the NYG perspective for future years.
many reading too much into this - 29 yo underachiever for top 70 pick  
Eric on Li : 3/22/2018 10:28 am : link
you do that deal every day of the week. Especially when you are trying to clear up future cap space for Collins and OBJ extensions. Unbelievable trade, wish we would have moved on from JPP for a similar deal a few years ago before wasting so much cap room on him. Since the SB season, he has been a mirage.
by the way  
djm : 3/22/2018 10:28 am : link
NFL off-seasons are fucking awesome. We have monster trades and FA signings. Trades have become a backbone to the off-seasons lately. This won't change.
Now  
AcidTest : 3/22/2018 10:28 am : link
this is a big sexy move!
Josh Sweat or Lorenzo Carter  
Chuckstar : 3/22/2018 10:28 am : link
in round 3.
RE: RE: So all we are netting out of this is a 3rd round pick?  
RobCarpenter : 3/22/2018 10:28 am : link
In comment 13879473 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13879414 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


?



And a bunch of cap relief.


What's the cap savings for 2019 and beyond from this trade?

I may be wrong, but dead cap for 2018 doesn't mean much at this point as the Giants are done in FA, except for filling in holes with cap friendly deals for vets.

In three years I think only six players will still be on this team that Reese drafted or signed:

Snacks
Tomlinson
Collins
Beckham
Engram
Jenkins
Loved JPP  
nyjuggernaut2 : 3/22/2018 10:29 am : link
but he just wasn't the same player since he blew off his hand, and definitely wasn't worth his salary. Good move by DG to dump the salary and pick up a 3rd rounder in the process.
RE: RE: RE: That means  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13879512 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
Michael Lombardi made a rare good point, that he knows organizationally the Giants grading system


There's no possible way he could know that for sure. Lombardi is the Ben McAdoo of NFL front office people anyway.
RE: RE: We  
RetroJint : 3/22/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13879493 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
In comment 13879486 AcidTest said:


Quote:


didn't get hosed. That's all we were going to get for a guy missing most of his right hand. And as others have noted, JPP doesn't fit our 3-4 defense, and is not an OLB. Chubb is also better suited for a 4-3, but we'll run a lot of 4-3 looks, he's younger, has all his fingers, and as JonC notes, the Giants love him.



Even on Chubb, I've seen a few people compare him to a more athletic Chandler Jones. Jones got 17 sacks last year under Bettcher playing a mix of 3-4 end and 3-4 olb.

Chubb is not more athletic than Chandler. Jones can spring downfield and cover a receiver. I like Chubb. He compares favorably to Joey Bosa . That works for me.

As far as JPP,inevitable downward spiral . I think DG got what he could . Nice move.
RE: Giants love Chubb  
Heisenberg : 3/22/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13879454 JonC said:
Quote:
scheme fit a non-issue.



They're gonna play him at DE in the 3-4? Seems odd to me.
RE: RE: RE: So all we are netting out of this is a 3rd round pick?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13879524 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 13879473 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13879414 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


?



And a bunch of cap relief.



What's the cap savings for 2019 and beyond from this trade?

I may be wrong, but dead cap for 2018 doesn't mean much at this point as the Giants are done in FA, except for filling in holes with cap friendly deals for vets.

In three years I think only six players will still be on this team that Reese drafted or signed:

Snacks
Tomlinson
Collins
Beckham
Engram
Jenkins


Just $2.5M this year. But huge for the future because he's off the books instead of having a $19.5M cap hit in 2019 and $17.5M in 2020
Hokey Smoke, Bullwinkle!  
Klaatu : 3/22/2018 10:30 am : link
That sure does make it seem like Chubb is the target.
RE: Anyone who say's  
bigbluescot : 3/22/2018 10:30 am : link
In comment 13879508 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
all we got is 2.5 mil in savings and complain about Dead money really takes dead money too seriously. If the Giants needed the 2.5 mil space, it doesn't matter that they got rid of JPP. If we plan on replacing him with draft picks then who cares (draft picks are allotted a certain amount anyway).

I think a trade down is coming too.


One way to look at it is that we turned $15 million of cap into the 69th pick in the draft, as well as freeing up much needed future cap for resignings.

Honestly, I liked Jpp, I actually thought he played hard last year, but he's well on the down slope and he's an awkward fit for a 3-4 base.
So what picks do we have now after the Ogletree and JPP trade?  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/22/2018 10:30 am : link
Anyone have the #s?
We were all confused to how JPP would fit  
Peppers : 3/22/2018 10:30 am : link
Not anymore..

Good move to do it now and get him off the books for the future.

That was courtesy of Dan Duggan  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 10:30 am : link
.
If I'm Gettleman  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/22/2018 10:30 am : link
I'm not done -- I trade with the Broncos to 5 and make them give me picks and one of their defensive dymos -- Von Miller anyone? -- and I then take Chubb at 5

I like Chubb a lot -- he's a pleasure to watch on the field - a true technician with outstanding work ethic

RE: Well done  
djm : 3/22/2018 10:30 am : link
In comment 13879413 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


If this was ten years prior you wonder if the Giants would have been able to move this player. Things have dramatically changed in the NFL with contracts and trades.

I look back at the re-signing as no harm no foul. We got an asset in return. Move on. I hope JPP plays at a high level for the Bucs. He was a good NYG player and at times great. Thanks for the memories.
I dont think this means much toward the draft  
ajr2456 : 3/22/2018 10:31 am : link
Chubb can't be a full time 4 or 4i tech end, and Bettcher likes to have his ends drop into coverage which isn't one of Chubbs strengths.
RE: RE: RE: So all we are netting out of this is a 3rd round pick?  
giants#1 : 3/22/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 13879524 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:



What's the cap savings for 2019 and beyond from this trade?


He had cap hits of $17.5M, $19.5M, and $17.5M remaining (2018-2020) for a total of $54.5M that the Giants would've owed over those 3 years. With the trade they are only on the hook (cap wise) for the $15M remaining on the prorated SB. So they free up ~$40M in cap dollars over the three seasons.
Chubb  
RAIN : 3/22/2018 10:32 am : link
In a 3-4? Not sure. Im thinking Edwards makes more sense then Chubb, and may have a similar grade.
RE: Don't see how this is a cap savings  
BillT : 3/22/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 13879514 BillT said:
Quote:
$15m in prorated signing bonus money accelerated. $12.5m in salary/bonuses gone. Isn't that -$2.5m?

Are they not counting the $5m prorated signing bonus hit we already have on the books for 2018? That's a bookkeeping $2.5 savings if it is.
JPP  
old man : 3/22/2018 10:34 am : link
Just paid for OBJs first 2nd contract year.
DG is a Genius!  
Painless62 : 3/22/2018 10:34 am : link
I have not been this ecstatic in a long time? He has flat out sucked for years. I still can't get that play out of my head a few years ago against the Cowboys, where Smith stoned him for literally 7 sec on the game winning drive. No DE, let alone one counting 22 mill against the cap, should allow that to happen to them. Very few DE are worth anything close to that. Look around the league at the truly good DE or edge players and see what they are paid. Nothing close to that. Another horrible signing by Reese. Actually, except for his rookie year, he has stunk against any quality lineman. We also get a high 3rd round pick which is invaluable at this point. Convert that pick to a young LB, CB or RB. Just wow. Great Job!
It's a great move  
SirYesSir : 3/22/2018 10:34 am : link
JPP was not a great fit for what this new defense looks to be.

He's a guy with value, but who never really lived up to the promise of the early stages of his career, and was making way too much money

Getting a 3rd and dealing that contract is a win, especially with the need to sign obj and collins not too far off.

Chubb would absolutely be a fit for this team, but it doesn't mean he's now their target. Everyone needs to stop treating the draft like it's free agency, take the best player for the long term for the franchise.
Agree  
mdthedream : 3/22/2018 10:34 am : link
the saving really is about next season as well.
RE: Seems like we got hosed a bit, no?  
Beer Man : 3/22/2018 10:35 am : link
In comment 13879436 KerrysFlask said:
Quote:
.
For what he is being paid, he has greatly under-performed (not to mention it was a bad contract). I think you cut you losses now and reallocate those dollars where you can hopefully get a greater return.
Coincidence  
mattnyg05 : 3/22/2018 10:35 am : link
That it came day after Darnold pro day? I doubt Cleveland trades back to 2 but this does give us another pick to add to any deal.
I'm officially in love with Gettleman  
BigBlue4You09 : 3/22/2018 10:36 am : link
Fantastic move
this kind of move  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/22/2018 10:36 am : link
screams trade down to me. Lots of draft picks to change the team at its most fundamental level. But who knows?
.  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 10:36 am : link
Good with the trade, but if we take Chubb @ 2, I will be furious.
RE: this kind of move  
giants#1 : 3/22/2018 10:37 am : link
In comment 13879570 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
screams trade down to me. Lots of draft picks to change the team at its most fundamental level. But who knows?


The counter would be that a franchise QB changes the team at its most fundamental level too!
So see if i have this right.  
rasbutant : 3/22/2018 10:37 am : link
Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus, but guarantees tranfers to the bucs.

Basically the Giants paid JPP 22.5 mil for last year (7.5 + 15) but have to count 15 mil of it on this years cap. Which actually saves the Giants 2.5 mil on the cap this year.

Seems like an OK deal to me, though i like JPP.

JPP wasn't going to be a good fit in  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/22/2018 10:37 am : link
this new defense. And he wasn't really worth the $ anymore. I like this trade.
DG wiping up  
SHO'NUFF : 3/22/2018 10:37 am : link
Jerry Reese's shit...nice!
RE: So what picks do we have now after the Ogletree and JPP trade?  
bigbluescot : 3/22/2018 10:37 am : link
In comment 13879536 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
Anyone have the #s?


#2
#34
#66
#69
#108
#139
RE: If I'm Gettleman  
SirYesSir : 3/22/2018 10:38 am : link
In comment 13879539 gidiefor said:
Quote:
I'm not done -- I trade with the Broncos to 5 and make them give me picks and one of their defensive dymos -- Von Miller anyone? -- and I then take Chubb at 5

I like Chubb a lot -- he's a pleasure to watch on the field - a true technician with outstanding work ethic



wait a minute, are you suggesting the broncos would move von miller to move up in the draft a few spots? I think you accidently grabbed some edibles this morning, holy shit
I dont know how this fool  
Creme777 : 3/22/2018 10:38 am : link
even got to come back to the team after he blew off his hand and then on top of that he did practically nothing.

Another Reese stupid decision. Now if we can unload that waste Vernon, we're set.
Love the move, hate that it likely means  
aimrocky : 3/22/2018 10:38 am : link
Chubb is in serious play. He's the one pick that I'd be underwhelmed with. I know, what do I know, but I can still not be happy with it.
RE: We got the #69 pick?  
Les in TO : 3/22/2018 10:38 am : link
In comment 13879485 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Nice.
it's a lucky number!

you know, JPP battled back from his firecracker disability/injury so I commend him for that. he played a significant role in the 2011 championship run. while I think most of us agree he never lived up to his full potential (or contract), I thank him for his service to big blue and wish him luck. I'm sure he doesn't mind being closer to home.
RE: Are we ready to admit  
djm : 3/22/2018 10:38 am : link
In comment 13879472 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
That I was right when I was all alone screaming For the Giants not to re-sign a guy with 7 fingers and a serious immaturity problem?


Nope.
RE: Crazy  
bigbluescot : 3/22/2018 10:39 am : link
In comment 13879503 AcidTest said:
Quote:
thought: The Giants trade down and target Marcus Davenport.


He's potentially there at 12 if you do a deal with the Bills, although I'm not sure he gets past Miami.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:39 am : link

Mike Garafolo
‏Verified account @MikeGarafolo
5m5 minutes ago

$5m of that was on the books anyway. $12.5m goes away, $10m accelerates. So its a savings of $2.5m in cap.
But we got a dreaded 3rd rounder  
Beer Man : 3/22/2018 10:40 am : link
Lets hope DG is better at selecting in the third than his predecessor
RE: RE: So what picks do we have now after the Ogletree and JPP trade?  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/22/2018 10:40 am : link
In comment 13879583 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
In comment 13879536 Jim in Forest Hills said:


Quote:


Anyone have the #s?



#2
#34
#66
#69
#108
#139


Thank you sir!
RE: RE: Giants love Chubb  
JonC : 3/22/2018 10:41 am : link
In comment 13879532 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13879454 JonC said:


Quote:


scheme fit a non-issue.




They're gonna play him at DE in the 3-4? Seems odd to me.


OLB
This could mean a few things  
nygiants16 : 3/22/2018 10:42 am : link
They like chubb at 2...

Trying to get more ammo to move to 1...

Gentleman is trying to acquire a many assets as he can and may look to acquire as many picks as he can...

Giants are close to a deal with Beckham and first big cap hit will be next year..

Measure nothing and just wanted to get rid of jpp because of his contract and bad fit
RE: It's a great move  
ajr2456 : 3/22/2018 10:42 am : link
In comment 13879557 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
JPP was not a great fit for what this new defense looks to be.

He's a guy with value, but who never really lived up to the promise of the early stages of his career, and was making way too much money

Getting a 3rd and dealing that contract is a win, especially with the need to sign obj and collins not too far off.

Chubb would absolutely be a fit for this team, but it doesn't mean he's now their target. Everyone needs to stop treating the draft like it's free agency, take the best player for the long term for the franchise.


Chubb is almost as bas as a fit for a 3-4 as JPP was, except he has two hands.
big message sent  
Dankbeerman : 3/22/2018 10:42 am : link
weather to him directley or other guys that got lazy after getting paid. and another shot at previous gms signing
RE: So see if i have this right.  
BillT : 3/22/2018 10:42 am : link
In comment 13879577 rasbutant said:
Quote:
Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus, but guarantees tranfers to the bucs.

Basically the Giants paid JPP 22.5 mil for last year (7.5 + 15) but have to count 15 mil of it on this years cap. Which actually saves the Giants 2.5 mil on the cap this year.

Seems like an OK deal to me, though i like JPP.

So, how does the Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus on this years cap minus the $12.5 min they save add up to a savings?
RE: This..  
Victor in CT : 3/22/2018 10:42 am : link
In comment 13879510 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
flew under the radar! Loved it.



Quote:


great move.
Victor in CT : 10:19 am : link : reply
high 3 1/2 for Gettleman!



I thank you. :-)
maybe they will bring back  
sundayatone : 3/22/2018 10:42 am : link
robert ayers
RE: Are we ready to admit  
Beer Man : 3/22/2018 10:43 am : link
In comment 13879472 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
That I was right when I was all alone screaming For the Giants not to re-sign a guy with 7 fingers and a serious immaturity problem?
Yeah, right, like you were the only one on this site against re-signing JPP. There were many.
RE: .  
AcidTest : 3/22/2018 10:43 am : link
In comment 13879574 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Good with the trade, but if we take Chubb @ 2, I will be furious.


I'd prefer not to take Chubb at #2, but it isn't a "remote thrower." I'd trade back and take Davenport.
I said it  
Pete in MD : 3/22/2018 10:43 am : link
on a thread the other day, JPP does not fit well in a 3-4. The fact that DG was able to get anything of value from JPP and his bloated contract is amazing. The signing of Mauro probably should have signaled this. He was a starter with Arizona and Betcher last season. Is OV next or will they try him at OLB?
RE: Are we ready to admit  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 10:43 am : link
In comment 13879472 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
That I was right when I was all alone screaming For the Giants not to re-sign a guy with 7 fingers and a serious immaturity problem?




Plus they got a solid asset in trade.
RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
giants#1 : 3/22/2018 10:44 am : link
In comment 13879618 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 13879577 rasbutant said:


Quote:


Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus, but guarantees tranfers to the bucs.

Basically the Giants paid JPP 22.5 mil for last year (7.5 + 15) but have to count 15 mil of it on this years cap. Which actually saves the Giants 2.5 mil on the cap this year.

Seems like an OK deal to me, though i like JPP.



So, how does the Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus on this years cap minus the $12.5 min they save add up to a savings?


His cap hit this year would've been $17.5M ($12.5M base + $5M prorated SB). $17.5 - $15 = $2.5M savings
RE: RE: That means  
superspynyg : 3/22/2018 10:44 am : link
In comment 13879408 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
In comment 13879399 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


Chubb clearly is being targeted.


Not at #2. So possible trade down.


What about a trade with the Bills for 12, 22 plus more and we get Davenport at 12? Also a possibility.
Best thing is our GM  
Carl in CT : 3/22/2018 10:44 am : link
Makes moves without the whole world knowing before it happens.
Gettelman is doing as he promised...  
johnnyb : 3/22/2018 10:45 am : link
Kicking Ass!!

What is next? This is what makes this so much fun. DG is not done yet.
RE: Giants love Chubb  
2ndroundKO : 3/22/2018 10:45 am : link
In comment 13879454 JonC said:
Quote:
scheme fit a non-issue.

This is your opinion or?
RE: RE: It's a great move  
nygiants16 : 3/22/2018 10:46 am : link
In comment 13879616 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13879557 SirYesSir said:


Quote:


JPP was not a great fit for what this new defense looks to be.

He's a guy with value, but who never really lived up to the promise of the early stages of his career, and was making way too much money

Getting a 3rd and dealing that contract is a win, especially with the need to sign obj and collins not too far off.

Chubb would absolutely be a fit for this team, but it doesn't mean he's now their target. Everyone needs to stop treating the draft like it's free agency, take the best player for the long term for the franchise.



Chubb is almost as bas as a fit for a 3-4 as JPP was, except he has two hands.


Giants will not be in 3-4 every single play
Great!!!  
superspynyg : 3/22/2018 10:47 am : link
Now my JPP Jersey is useless!!!!

Damn you Gettleman!!!!!!!
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 10:47 am : link
In comment 13879622 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 13879574 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Good with the trade, but if we take Chubb @ 2, I will be furious.



I'd prefer not to take Chubb at #2, but it isn't a "remote thrower." I'd trade back and take Davenport.


Maybe not a remote thrower - but to pass on a QB and a RB as highly-touted as Barkley would tick me off. Chubb @ 2 almost feels like a reach despite him being one of the better players in the draft.
RE: Best thing is our GM  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/22/2018 10:47 am : link
In comment 13879630 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Makes moves without the whole world knowing before it happens.


That is fo sure
Awesome Move!  
John K : 3/22/2018 10:47 am : link
JPP on a downward spiral. Lucky to get anything other than cap relief for him.

DG knows this team needs a complete overhaul.
heard two weeks ago  
JonC : 3/22/2018 10:47 am : link
Giants love Chubb, scheme fit a non-issue.

It doesn't mean he's the pick at #2, but certainly an option with more weight now.

RE: Are we ready to admit  
figgy2989 : 3/22/2018 10:47 am : link
In comment 13879472 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
That I was right when I was all alone screaming For the Giants not to re-sign a guy with 7 fingers and a serious immaturity problem?


Its this type of post why you get shit on around here.
It's  
AcidTest : 3/22/2018 10:47 am : link
just insane the extent to which DG has already remade this roster: DRC, RIchburg, Pugh, and JPP gone. Marshall, Harris, and Bromley also likely gone as well.
The Dead Money isn't a big deal  
rasbutant : 3/22/2018 10:48 am : link
its just a deferred payment from last year.

We paid JPP 22.5 mil for one year, in hindsight the Franchise Tag would have been cheaper.
Pass rusher  
Sammo85 : 3/22/2018 10:48 am : link
Just became a draft need.

Theres lots of enticing tweener types that would fit, so we can look at in Rounds 3, 4, 5.
RE: It's  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/22/2018 10:48 am : link
In comment 13879652 AcidTest said:
Quote:
just insane the extent to which DG has already remade this roster: DRC, RIchburg, Pugh, and JPP gone. Marshall, Harris, and Bromley also likely gone as well.


Good. Things need to be shaken up after a 3-13 campaign.
That last contract they gave him was ridiculous  
David B. : 3/22/2018 10:49 am : link
That last contract they gave him was ridiculous. He was being paid like a VERY GOOD DE, and he just isn't that anymore. Hes a guy who never stays healthy enough to play a full season, and doesnt get to the QB much anymore.

Plus all the other nonsense he brings.
Little doubt on the 3-4 change now  
Rflairr : 3/22/2018 10:49 am : link
JPP back to where he played college ball
RE: RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
BillT : 3/22/2018 10:49 am : link
In comment 13879628 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13879618 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 13879577 rasbutant said:


Quote:


Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus, but guarantees tranfers to the bucs.

Basically the Giants paid JPP 22.5 mil for last year (7.5 + 15) but have to count 15 mil of it on this years cap. Which actually saves the Giants 2.5 mil on the cap this year.

Seems like an OK deal to me, though i like JPP.



So, how does the Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus on this years cap minus the $12.5 min they save add up to a savings?



His cap hit this year would've been $17.5M ($12.5M base + $5M prorated SB). $17.5 - $15 = $2.5M savings

But the $10m in accelerated signing bonus plus the $5m that is already on the books is $15m. The savings is only $12.5m. You even said Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus on this years cap.
RE: RE: Are we ready to admit  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 10:49 am : link
In comment 13879651 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 13879472 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


That I was right when I was all alone screaming For the Giants not to re-sign a guy with 7 fingers and a serious immaturity problem?



Its this type of post why you get shit on around here.


He'll never figure it out. I've tried. Doesn't get it.
Looks like Giants will move to 3-4 base defense  
Steve in South Jersey : 3/22/2018 10:49 am : link
.
RE: heard two weeks ago  
Sammo85 : 3/22/2018 10:49 am : link
In comment 13879650 JonC said:
Quote:
Giants love Chubb, scheme fit a non-issue.

It doesn't mean he's the pick at #2, but certainly an option with more weight now.


Correct, theres lots of LB and DE tweener type options though too in later rounds.

Id be surprised if we didnt take a linebacker somewhere in rounds 2-5.
Im not sure this means anything regarding Chubb.  
Keith : 3/22/2018 10:50 am : link
This could mean that Gettleman wants to change up the veteran players in the lockerroom. It could mean that he doesn't see JPP as a good fit in the new scheme. It could mean that he is about to sign Odell and wants to clear money.

I still think everyone is overthinking this. Mara made it clear late last season that drafting a QB was a priority(based on scouting). There are 3/4 highly touted QB's expected to go early in this draft that teams are fighting over to move up and draft. So far all of the QB's have proven that they are top tier QB prospects in their various workouts. I'm pretty confident that we are taking a QB.
RE: I said it  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 10:50 am : link
In comment 13879623 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
Is OV next or will they try him at OLB?


He's played OLB before. To be frank, he might be better as a 3-4 OLB because he's slightly undersized for a 4-3 end. If you look at his draft profile, it was expected that that would be his position.
RE: RE: Are we ready to admit  
Klaatu : 3/22/2018 10:51 am : link
In comment 13879621 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13879472 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


That I was right when I was all alone screaming For the Giants not to re-sign a guy with 7 fingers and a serious immaturity problem?

Yeah, right, like you were the only one on this site against re-signing JPP. There were many.


ThatLimerickGuy's really crowing,
Now that Jason Pierre-Paul is going.
But if memory serves,
GoTerps really deserves,
To be one guy whose horn should be blowing.
OV and Chubb  
JonC : 3/22/2018 10:51 am : link
gives you two very explosive, destructive edge rushers at OLB in a 3-4.
The Giants could really create a ton of cap space in 2019.  
bceagle05 : 3/22/2018 10:52 am : link
I don't want to turn this into another draft war, but if there was ever a time to draft a young QB, move on from Eli (after this season) and build the foundation for the next 10 years of Giants football, it's now.
Teams will now inquire about the availability of OBJ!  
wgenesis123 : 3/22/2018 10:52 am : link
This will signal a fire sale whether that is true or not true remains to be seen.
RE: heard two weeks ago  
bigbluescot : 3/22/2018 10:52 am : link
In comment 13879650 JonC said:
Quote:
Giants love Chubb, scheme fit a non-issue.

It doesn't mean he's the pick at #2, but certainly an option with more weight now.


Michael Lombardi mentioned on his podcast, that he knows that organizationally the Giants grading scheme would give Chubb an extremely high grade. He was unsure if Gettleman has made any major changes to that scheme, but didn't think so.
No effect on draft...unless they try to move up or down  
Rong5611 : 3/22/2018 10:53 am : link
I still think they take a QB (Rosen) at #2.
RE: OV and Chubb  
Strip-Sack : 3/22/2018 10:53 am : link
In comment 13879680 JonC said:
Quote:
gives you two very explosive, destructive edge rushers at OLB in a 3-4.


Bingo and a massive upgrade in the leadership department....hopefully they can get Denver or Cleveland to bite.
....  
riceneggs : 3/22/2018 10:53 am : link
I don't like the move. How are all these cuts making our team better?

I don't think we need Chubb. It'll just be another case of watching our defense do well, while the offense struggles to get 1st downs

i say take Barkley at #2 and lets! score! points!
RE: RE: RE: Giants love Chubb  
Heisenberg : 3/22/2018 10:53 am : link
In comment 13879610 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 13879532 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


In comment 13879454 JonC said:


Quote:


scheme fit a non-issue.




They're gonna play him at DE in the 3-4? Seems odd to me.



OLB



Yeah, I guess? He just looks like such a classic 4-3 DE to me that it's hard to shake it. He's an absolut stud though so he'll be good on the field wherever you play him.
RE: No effect on draft...unless they try to move up or down  
Rflairr : 3/22/2018 10:53 am : link
In comment 13879693 Rong5611 said:
Quote:
I still think they take a QB (Rosen) at #2.


Yup or Darnold
RE: RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
rasbutant : 3/22/2018 10:54 am : link
In comment 13879628 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13879618 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 13879577 rasbutant said:


Quote:


Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus, but guarantees tranfers to the bucs.

Basically the Giants paid JPP 22.5 mil for last year (7.5 + 15) but have to count 15 mil of it on this years cap. Which actually saves the Giants 2.5 mil on the cap this year.

Seems like an OK deal to me, though i like JPP.



So, how does the Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus on this years cap minus the $12.5 min they save add up to a savings?



His cap hit this year would've been $17.5M ($12.5M base + $5M prorated SB). $17.5 - $15 = $2.5M savings


Exactly, if he was on the team he was going to cost 17.5 mil. But by not being on the team he only cost 15mil. A 2.5mil savings.

one might complain that we are paying 15mil for a player not on the team. I'm pointing out that he only cost 7.5 mil last year, so combine that with the 15 mil from this year and they end up pay JPP 22.5 mil for one year of ball.
BBI write-up on the trade...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:54 am : link
with salary cap ramifications
Giants Trade Jason Pierre-Paul to Buccaneers; Re-Structure John Jerry - ( New Window )
maybe we are going to go Chubb  
bluepepper : 3/22/2018 10:54 am : link
@AdamSchefter
Following Following @AdamSchefter
More
Both @LRiddickESPN and @Realrclark25 said on SportsCenter that Bradley Chubb is a better football player than last year's No. 1 pick, Myles Garrett.
2 high picks in the 3rd round  
ryanmkeane : 3/22/2018 10:54 am : link
is so awesone. We can use those to move up in the 2nd if we want, or get 2 possible starters with those picks. Like this move a lot.
those  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 10:55 am : link
discounting Chubb at this point do so at the risk of their own future mental health on draft day. ;)
RE: RE: RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
giants#1 : 3/22/2018 10:55 am : link
In comment 13879658 BillT said:
Quote:


But the $10m in accelerated signing bonus plus the $5m that is already on the books is $15m. The savings is only $12.5m. You even said Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus on this years cap.


If he played for the Giants in 2018:
$11.25 (base) + $5 (prorated SB) + $1 (roster bonus) + $0.25 (workout bonus) = $17.5M cap hit

After the trade, the Giants are only on the hook for the remaining SB ($5M each from 2018/19/20) = $15M

$17.5 - $15 = $2.5M savings
RE: heard two weeks ago  
UberAlias : 3/22/2018 10:55 am : link
In comment 13879650 JonC said:
Quote:
Giants love Chubb, scheme fit a non-issue.

It doesn't mean he's the pick at #2, but certainly an option with more weight now.
More ammo too if they wanted to deal up for Darnold.
RE: ....  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 10:55 am : link
In comment 13879695 riceneggs said:
Quote:
I don't like the move. How are all these cuts making our team better?



You weren't getting enough production for what they were paying. It's really hard to be successful that way.
If the Giants want to play more 3-4  
SirYesSir : 3/22/2018 10:55 am : link
(not 100%, but often) then JPP is not a fit. Vernon could be an outside guy. Moss could maybe do that. Even Okwara or Wynn might be able to go out there, but they'll need some big guys to play the 3-4 end position.

You want guys big, but more athletic than Tomlinson or Harrison on those ends
Great move  
Danny Kanell : 3/22/2018 10:57 am : link
I don't think this move has much of anything to do with the draft.

This was an opportunity to move on from a player that no longer can play at the level his contract demands. Gives us a ton more cap flexibility in 2019 and got us an asset in a high 3rd round pick this year.

Home run if you ask me.
RE: 2 high picks in the 3rd round  
giants#1 : 3/22/2018 10:57 am : link
In comment 13879712 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
is so awesone. We can use those to move up in the 2nd if we want, or get 2 possible starters with those picks. Like this move a lot.


Usually some good interior OL available there that can step in and start day 1...
This is not about Chubb  
larryflower37 : 3/22/2018 10:57 am : link
but about a rebuild.
Gettleman is getting bad contracts off the books and stockpiling picks.
JPP has not been a model citizen/locker room guy on this team.

6 picks in the first 140 picks can help to turn this thing around
RE: RE: heard two weeks ago  
UberAlias : 3/22/2018 10:58 am : link
In comment 13879718 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 13879650 JonC said:


Quote:


Giants love Chubb, scheme fit a non-issue.

It doesn't mean he's the pick at #2, but certainly an option with more weight now.


More ammo too if they wanted to deal up for Darnold.
The timing of it is interesting. The day after Darnold's pro day the Giants deal one of their few tradable assets for a draft pick. Hmmm...
There were people  
Creme777 : 3/22/2018 10:58 am : link
who thought JPP coming back after the hand incident was good?

Holy crap I thought he sucked from 2012-2017.

The guy only basically had one good year..
Salary Dump...  
M.S. : 3/22/2018 11:00 am : link

...for a guy who could play both Hero and Coach Killer!

Wish you well JPP!!!
WOW  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2018 11:00 am : link
What makes me OK with this is that JPP 'flashed ' great plays last year within an otherwise blah season.

So maybe the message is to " give great effort or don't come to N.Y."

Plus...picks, more picks!
If they take Chubb,  
Jon in NYC : 3/22/2018 11:01 am : link
I really hope he turns into Von Miller. He needs to be a multiple pro-bowl kind of guy.
RE: Hello...  
batman11 : 3/22/2018 11:02 am : link
In comment 13879403 Strip-Sack said:
Quote:
Mr. Chubb!!!


Yup, my absolute first thought.
Does this mean...  
M.S. : 3/22/2018 11:02 am : link

...Bradley Chubb at #2???
Creme  
ryanmkeane : 3/22/2018 11:02 am : link
JPP is a good football player. You can do a hell of a lot worse at DE. At his best, he's a really good two way player.
RE: If they take Chubb,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 11:03 am : link
In comment 13879751 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
I really hope he turns into Von Miller. He needs to be a multiple pro-bowl kind of guy.


I still can't make up my mind when I see him play. I don't think he's THAT kind of special.
raise  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 11:03 am : link
your hand if you thought Kerry Wynn would out-last JPP?
The thing about Chubb  
ryanmkeane : 3/22/2018 11:04 am : link
is the "want to"...dude has a ridiculous motor.
RE: RE: If they take Chubb,  
Jon in NYC : 3/22/2018 11:05 am : link
In comment 13879763 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13879751 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


I really hope he turns into Von Miller. He needs to be a multiple pro-bowl kind of guy.



I still can't make up my mind when I see him play. I don't think he's THAT kind of special.


I don't either. Chubb at 2 scares me. I'm still hoping for Barkley or Darnold.
JPP  
Allen in CNJ : 3/22/2018 11:05 am : link
is a guy that really doesn't fit in here anymore, especially with our new D scheme. He's a 4-3 end/edge rusher who really isn't a 3-4 end, nor is he a stand-up 3-4 OLB edge rusher. I think it comes down to him simply not fitting in here - it's that simple.

Kudos to DG for getting a decent pick for JPP.

..And thank you to JPP for 8 great years here!
these "Knicks" are making moves  
GMAN4LIFE : 3/22/2018 11:06 am : link
.
No to Chubb  
KWALL2 : 3/22/2018 11:06 am : link
Yes to the QB or Barkley.

Are we going 3-4 D? We need edge rushers. No to Chubb and get 3-4 explosive rusher later. Like that guy from Rutgers who will be the steal of the draft if we get him with that 3rd round pick.

Could be a wake up for JPP. Cut some weight and I think hell play good ball for TB.
Raise hand how many  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2018 11:06 am : link
Fingers though?

To me - contract + inconsistent effort
...  
christian : 3/22/2018 11:07 am : link
It's a good move. What became obvious last year is that JPP's body is broken down.

It's not his hand, it's the back, shoulder and abdominal injuries that have made a once elite athlete into an average player.

He's a bad fit for the new scheme, and a bad allocation of resources.

I wanted him back, but after learning he had 2 surgeries last off season -- I was floored he was given that contract.

If healthy he's still a very good player - but it's time this org stops living in the past.
I didn't like the Gettleman hire...  
bw in dc : 3/22/2018 11:07 am : link
But I must say the moves thus far are hard to not like:

Olgetree, Solder, and now this. And not re-signing the turnstiles Richburg and Pugh...
RE: raise  
Rjanyg : 3/22/2018 11:08 am : link
In comment 13879766 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
your hand if you thought Kerry Wynn would out-last JPP?


lol. Good one Eric.
RE: RE: heard two weeks ago  
JonC : 3/22/2018 11:08 am : link
In comment 13879718 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 13879650 JonC said:


Quote:


Giants love Chubb, scheme fit a non-issue.

It doesn't mean he's the pick at #2, but certainly an option with more weight now.


More ammo too if they wanted to deal up for Darnold.


Darnold is my boy, but heard nothing on QBs so far.
RE: RE: RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
Jim in Fairfax : 3/22/2018 11:09 am : link
In comment 13879658 BillT said:
Quote:


But the $10m in accelerated signing bonus plus the $5m that is already on the books is $15m. The savings is only $12.5m. You even said Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus on this years cap.

The $5M bonus pro-rate for 2018 is irrelevant to the savings discussion. They owe it against the cap whether they kept him or dealt him.

They were going to owe $17.5M against this years cap: $12.5 salary + $5 bonus.

By trading him, they dont owe the $12.5M salary this year, but the remaining $10M in bonus gets accelerated.

To summarize: They would have owed $17.5M against the cap if they kept him. By trading, they owe just the $15M in bonus prorate. Thats a $2.5M savings.
Best of move of the offseason  
AcesUp : 3/22/2018 11:09 am : link
I assumed that we would just cut him next year without comp, to do so this year for a high 3rd rounder is awesome. I'm not concerned with the dead cap, we're not competing for a title this year, I don't care if we're taking a short term step back at the position if it nets us a top 70 pick and more cap freedom going forward. His contract is completely off the books next year, that's big.

I like how DG is aggressively shaping the roster through trades, it shows a little more creativity than the last FO.
With A Trade Down  
pa_giant_fan : 3/22/2018 11:10 am : link
Tremaine Edwards OLB/DE VT, 6.5 240
Perfect for a 3-4 Defense
RE: No to Chubb  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 11:10 am : link
In comment 13879781 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Yes to the QB or Barkley.

Are we going 3-4 D? We need edge rushers. No to Chubb and get 3-4 explosive rusher later. Like that guy from Rutgers who will be the steal of the draft if we get him with that 3rd round pick.

Could be a wake up for JPP. Cut some weight and I think hell play good ball for TB.


Wouldn't be a KWALL post without propping up some Rutgers guy :)

I agree with you, though - no to Chubb. Gotta go QB or Barkley @ 2 if we're staying put.
This is a great move ...  
Beer Man : 3/22/2018 11:10 am : link
But it does create another hole on this team
The guy got  
Creme777 : 3/22/2018 11:11 am : link
muscled around so much it looked like he was cooked and wasnt affective. "Good" wasnt enough to warrant all that money he was getting.

Tampa Bay got ripped off.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
BillT : 3/22/2018 11:11 am : link
In comment 13879716 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13879658 BillT said:


Quote:




But the $10m in accelerated signing bonus plus the $5m that is already on the books is $15m. The savings is only $12.5m. You even said Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus on this years cap.



If he played for the Giants in 2018:
$11.25 (base) + $5 (prorated SB) + $1 (roster bonus) + $0.25 (workout bonus) = $17.5M cap hit

After the trade, the Giants are only on the hook for the remaining SB ($5M each from 2018/19/20) = $15M

$17.5 - $15 = $2.5M savings

Yes, but they're not getting rid of $17.5m. $5m of the $17.5m stays on the cap. They are only reducing this years cap by $12.5m.
RE: guess  
Tuckrule : 3/22/2018 11:11 am : link
In comment 13879409 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
what... Chubb is now REALLY in play.


How??? We are set to play a 3-4 the way hes building this roster he has massive ends. Chubb by all accounts is purely a 4-3 end. I just dont see this.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
BillT : 3/22/2018 11:12 am : link
In comment 13879814 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 13879716 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 13879658 BillT said:


Quote:




But the $10m in accelerated signing bonus plus the $5m that is already on the books is $15m. The savings is only $12.5m. You even said Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus on this years cap.



If he played for the Giants in 2018:
$11.25 (base) + $5 (prorated SB) + $1 (roster bonus) + $0.25 (workout bonus) = $17.5M cap hit

After the trade, the Giants are only on the hook for the remaining SB ($5M each from 2018/19/20) = $15M

$17.5 - $15 = $2.5M savings


Yes, but they're not getting rid of $17.5m. $5m of the $17.5m stays on the cap. They are only reducing this years cap by $12.5m.

I mean reducing the money the are paying out.
RE: This is a great move ...  
jvm52106 : 3/22/2018 11:13 am : link
In comment 13879809 Beer Man said:
Quote:
But it does create another hole on this team


Does it? Maybe the had already determined JPP was a guy without a true position or they just didn't think he was worth having..
I mention it a few times,  
prdave73 : 3/22/2018 11:13 am : link
Jpp has become a bit of a liability due to the hand issue. Unfortunately his game has been affected by it and is his play is not worth his contract. Sad to see him go but I think this was the best move by the Giants. Time to move on. Now bring in Chubb:)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
giants#1 : 3/22/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 13879814 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 13879716 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 13879658 BillT said:


Quote:




But the $10m in accelerated signing bonus plus the $5m that is already on the books is $15m. The savings is only $12.5m. You even said Giants eat 15 mil from signing bonus on this years cap.



If he played for the Giants in 2018:
$11.25 (base) + $5 (prorated SB) + $1 (roster bonus) + $0.25 (workout bonus) = $17.5M cap hit

After the trade, the Giants are only on the hook for the remaining SB ($5M each from 2018/19/20) = $15M

$17.5 - $15 = $2.5M savings


Yes, but they're not getting rid of $17.5m. $5m of the $17.5m stays on the cap. They are only reducing this years cap by $12.5m.


And they are only "increasing" it by $10M due to the SB money due (on the cap) in 2019 and 2020. $12.5 - $10 = $2.5 savings
RE: With A Trade Down  
Klaatu : 3/22/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 13879804 pa_giant_fan said:
Quote:
Tremaine Edwards OLB/DE VT, 6.5 240
Perfect for a 3-4 Defense


I was just thinking about that, myself (sorry, Greg).
The draft is strong and deep on Edge players  
AcesUp : 3/22/2018 11:15 am : link
We can probably get a comparable player to 29 yr old JPP out the gate with that pick we just acquired...minus the contract, that's a better scheme fit with more upside.
Tuckrule  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 11:16 am : link
Giants are going to play a hybrid defense.

Giants love Chubb. I don't think they have him #1, but they have him up there.
RE: those  
section125 : 3/22/2018 11:16 am : link
In comment 13879715 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
discounting Chubb at this point do so at the risk of their own future mental health on draft day. ;)


He might very well be in play, but now I think they trade with Denver and get #5 Denver's #2(and maybe #3) and next year's #1.

I'd prefer Nelson at 5 but Chubb would be fine.
Which Chubb?  
GMen23 : 3/22/2018 11:17 am : link
Many pundits grading the 5 RB's behind Barkley, late 1st, and throughout the 2nd.

Is Nick Chubb the one that falls to 69?

2017 pick 67 - Alvin Kamara.
RE: RE: This is a great move ...  
Brown Recluse : 3/22/2018 11:17 am : link
In comment 13879827 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 13879809 Beer Man said:


Quote:


But it does create another hole on this team



Does it? Maybe the had already determined JPP was a guy without a true position or they just didn't think he was worth having..


It does create a hole. At least on paper. JPP wasn't a great pass rusher anymore, but he was still very stout.
Trade down to 5  
Mkdaman1818 : 3/22/2018 11:18 am : link
If we can trade with Denver down to 5, maybe we can grab a player from them like LB Brandon Marshall or Shane Ray
GMAN4LIFE  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 11:18 am : link
The Giants just created $15 million in dead money buy trading away a guy they signed to a $62 million contract twelve months ago. They now have no one left from six consecutive drafts. And they just created another hole to fill.

The good news is they cleared cap space in 2019 and 2020 by at least admitting to a GIGANTIC mistake.

But I wouldn't be "celebrating" right now.
Getting younger on D  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2018 11:19 am : link
DRC was old. JPP older than a draft pick. But to me: effort seemed spotty.

Don't think the hand factored in at all.
Gettleman's Rockin' the Old Boat,  
clatterbuck : 3/22/2018 11:19 am : link
isn't he? Not quite the staid, "nothing's gonna change" regime some feared. We'll see how these moves play out, but in the meantime, this is fun.
I can't  
Amtoft : 3/22/2018 11:20 am : link
believe we traded pick 4.02 ... usually after the second day and people have time to see who got over looked and reevaluate their boards that pick becomes valuable. Oh well
RE: Giants love Chubb  
NikkiMac : 3/22/2018 11:20 am : link
In comment 13879454 JonC said:
Quote:
scheme fit a non-issue.


How do you know that the Giants love Chubb the giants probably love a lot of players do you have an inside track Jon C
Which Chubb?  
GMen23 : 3/22/2018 11:21 am : link
Many pundits grading the 5 RB's behind Barkley, late 1st, and throughout the 2nd.

Is Nick Chubb the one that falls to 69?

2017 pick 67 - Alvin Kamara.
Well this certainly changes  
Nysportsfn13 : 3/22/2018 11:21 am : link
my opinion on the draft..

It's all about signing Odell and LDC next year tho.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
BillT : 3/22/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13879831 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13879814 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 13879716 giants#1 said:




And they are only "increasing" it by $10M due to the SB money due (on the cap) in 2019 and 2020. $12.5 - $10 = $2.5 savings

Ok. Let's try it this way. (and I mean this as a question) How much on the Giants cap this year from JPP signing bonus. $15m. Correct? How much less do they have to pay for JPP's services this year. $12.5m. Correct? I think the $17.5 number is not part of the equation because it includes money that isn't leaving the Giants payroll. The 15 and the 12.5 are the only numbers that matter. 12.5 less 15 is -2.5.
DG is the JPP of GMs!  
Del Shofner : 3/22/2018 11:22 am : link
.
RE: GMAN4LIFE  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 11:22 am : link
In comment 13879859 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The Giants just created $15 million in dead money buy trading away a guy they signed to a $62 million contract twelve months ago. They now have no one left from six consecutive drafts. And they just created another hole to fill.

The good news is they cleared cap space in 2019 and 2020 by at least admitting to a GIGANTIC mistake.

But I wouldn't be "celebrating" right now.


I don't think they actually created a hole. Whoever plays end in their 3-4 is not going to be some big name. 3-4 DEs aren't stars. They just signed a 3-4 DE that played a ton of snaps for this coordinator.
I guess they would be using Chubb as a  
Heisenberg : 3/22/2018 11:22 am : link
Clowney type LB/DE guy?
By the way, how many draft picks...  
Nysportsfn13 : 3/22/2018 11:22 am : link
are still Giants since the 2014 draft?

That tells you all you need to know about Jerry Reese.
hasn't the "trust in DG" era begun?  
Alan in Toledo : 3/22/2018 11:23 am : link
Just asking.
RE: Getting younger on D  
NikkiMac : 3/22/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 13879862 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
DRC was old. JPP older than a draft pick. But to me: effort seemed spotty.

Don't think the hand factored in at all.


Knew it was a matter of time....Gettleman looked at the tape

This is just as much culture change as dumping a salary

JPP dogged it last year and even I saw it on tape

And he has had a shitty attitude for a long time .... Good Riddance
RE: By the way, how many draft picks...  
Nysportsfn13 : 3/22/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 13879893 Nysportsfn13 said:
are still Giants since the 2010 draft?

That tells you all you need to know about Jerry Reese.
RE: DG is the JPP of GMs!  
Beer Man : 3/22/2018 11:26 am : link
In comment 13879889 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
.
Nice!!!
Ten Ton Hammer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 11:26 am : link
JPP was a pass rusher...either at DE or LB. Now he's gone. I would have dumped him too (I said so two months ago on BBI). But it's a hole. And it will be VERY telling if they do draft Chubb to basically replace him.
Wow!!! A huge, unexpected move, but a good one.  
Ira : 3/22/2018 11:27 am : link
I'm just now getting over the shock.
Reminds me of Gettleman  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 3/22/2018 11:28 am : link
trading Beason to some team.
2010 is 8 years ago  
JonC : 3/22/2018 11:29 am : link
an eternity in the NFL, not exactly a strong point.
RE: Ten Ton Hammer  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 11:29 am : link
In comment 13879911 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
JPP was a pass rusher...either at DE or LB. Now he's gone. I would have dumped him too (I said so two months ago on BBI). But it's a hole. And it will be VERY telling if they do draft Chubb to basically replace him.


He wasn't enough of a pass rusher while he was here. So what are you losing? I'm fine with letting him go. He needs to be replaced by someone who can set a good edge against a run. Mauro seems to be that by reputation.

You can get 7 sacks elsewhere.
I'm not reading the whole thread  
allstarjim : 3/22/2018 11:30 am : link
But Chubb would be miscast here, I don't think this means anything for what we do in the first round. However, I've always thought that they would be targeting a 3-4 DE in this draft. Personally, I thought JPP would be a good fit in a 3-4 at the pass-rushing or "small DE" side in the 3-4. Now, with what we have on the roster, looks like Mauro is the top guy. Perhaps Wynn and Okwara will be in the mix...I guess.

I would've thought we could've done better, at the very least a 2 and a 4 if we are swapping 4th rounders, or just the 3 and a 4 without our 4th rounder included.

I suppose the salary was a factor and perhaps he is 2 and a half digits less of a player than he used to be. I'm not mocking either, seriously think that could also be a part of it.
DG  
JerseyCityJoe : 3/22/2018 11:31 am : link
I guess he had the brutally honest discussion with JPP.
If they are going to a 3-4 defense  
NikkiMac : 3/22/2018 11:32 am : link
Than it makes more sense to pick up linebackers we have enough on the line maybe depth is needed......
TTH  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 11:32 am : link
Karrem Martin is replacing JPP if we are actually going to a 3-4. (We don't know yet).
Candidly  
Percy : 3/22/2018 11:34 am : link
I was waiting for something like this with JPP -- for many reasons. To me it's a correct move for the team.
RE: DG is the JPP of GMs!  
Klaatu : 3/22/2018 11:34 am : link
In comment 13879889 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
.


Well done.
RE: If I'm Gettleman  
Mr. Nickels : 3/22/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 13879539 gidiefor said:
Quote:
I'm not done -- I trade with the Broncos to 5 and make them give me picks and one of their defensive dymos -- Von Miller anyone? -- and I then take Chubb at 5

I like Chubb a lot -- he's a pleasure to watch on the field - a true technician with outstanding work ethic



You think the Broncos are going to trade Von Miller? Not a chance.
RE: Seems like we got hosed a bit, no?  
GuzzaBlue : 3/22/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 13879436 KerrysFlask said:
Quote:
.


I don't think at all. Actually, I believe the opposite. Terrible contract for a guy who under-achieved and maybe a bit better than mediocre at this point. He has had back issues and maturity issues still. Not a great fit for the new scheme. Probably just flat out overrated at this point.

He was amazzzzzing early in his career, but he lost a lot of that athletic ability due to injuries. This is a steal for us. To get a high 3rd round pick and the ability to still get 2nd round talent that falls. This for dumping a ton of money in 2019 and 2020 gives us the ability to sign OBJ and Collins. Hell the guy who replaces him could easily be more effective on this D. Addition by subtraction while also adding a 3rd round pick.

Did you really expect a 2nd? I wouldn't have expected a 3rd, but rather a 4th.
RE: Reminds me of Gettleman  
mfsd : 3/22/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 13879921 Tittle 9 20 64 said:
Quote:
trading Beason to some team.


Haha great point!
The longest tenured Giants draft pick is Zak DeOssie  
dpinzow : 3/22/2018 11:35 am : link
2007, long snapper

The second longest tenured Giants draft pick is.....OBJ

(Eli was not technically a Giants draft pick)
I think its a good trade.  
Dinger : 3/22/2018 11:35 am : link
JPP and OV are both good at applying pressure and stopping the run. Not at getting actual sacks. You're changing schemes and getting rid of an 'older' player who has an 'tendency towards injury'. Plus I feel like JPP took a lot of plays off and with his permanent injury his playing style had to change. He used his long reach to make tackles, sacks an bat passes. With the injured hand he was not able to do this as much or as effectively, unfortunately.

They hired a defensive coordinator who has never run anything  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 11:37 am : link
other than a 3-4, and picked up 3-4 alignment defensive free agents. and traded for a MLB who had just come from playing in a 3-4

I think we can be pretty sure at this point.
I love this society  
Creme777 : 3/22/2018 11:37 am : link
grown men talking about a game in the middle of the day on a weekday. Does anyone work anymore?
RE: The longest tenured Giants draft pick is Zak DeOssie  
jestersdead : 3/22/2018 11:38 am : link
In comment 13879967 dpinzow said:
Quote:
2007, long snapper

The second longest tenured Giants draft pick is.....OBJ

(Eli was not technically a Giants draft pick)


Was JPP the last remaining draft pick from 2010-2013?
As for the trade, its hard to trade what is considered a central piece  
dpinzow : 3/22/2018 11:39 am : link
but there was probably no way to keep all of Odell, Collins, JPP and Vernon under one salary cap along with Eli for the next two years so JPP or Vernon was getting traded. Collins and Odell are considered future core pieces and Vernon is younger + fits better in a 3-4 scheme the new DC is running
Good freakin riddance...  
sb from NYT Forum : 3/22/2018 11:40 am : link
...
quick prediction...  
Rory : 3/22/2018 11:41 am : link
Giants move back acquire picks to select Chubb.

Giants use picks to move back into 1st round to select RB/OL (Derrius Guice/McGlinchey?)

Reason: When Jets moved to 3rd for a QB (Allen?) and the Browns pretty much made the decision after Darnolds pro day he's the #1 pick the Giants spot at 2 became very valuable for anyone wanting Rosen (Bills?).

Giants could be getting a ransom here, not sure Chubb lasts to 11.
RE: They hired a defensive coordinator who has never run anything  
Jon in NYC : 3/22/2018 11:43 am : link
In comment 13879974 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
other than a 3-4, and picked up 3-4 alignment defensive free agents. and traded for a MLB who had just come from playing in a 3-4

I think we can be pretty sure at this point.


Yeah, this.
I agree that Chubb is in play,  
Bill L : 3/22/2018 11:43 am : link
But that would be a remote-thrower for me at 2.

By picking Chubb over Barkley, you remove the positional handicap that you get if you insist on picking a QB. Now, youre comparing player to player evenly and picking the lesser talent. Also, I feel that their running game deficit is much much greater than their defensive deficit at this point. So, you would be going for incremental improvement versus a ginormous improvement.

Im still going for talent I guess the caveat, is that setting your sights on Chubb would make a trade-down more palatable for me. Not what I would do or want them to do, but at least its less emetic.
RE: They hired a defensive coordinator who has never run anything  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 11:43 am : link
In comment 13879974 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
other than a 3-4, and picked up 3-4 alignment defensive free agents. and traded for a MLB who had just come from playing in a 3-4

I think we can be pretty sure at this point.


I think so too, but it could be some sort of hybrid too.

My guess is as right now the line is Tomlinson-Harrison-Mauro with OV and Martin the outside linebackers.
RE: TTH  
allstarjim : 3/22/2018 11:44 am : link
In comment 13879948 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Karrem Martin is replacing JPP if we are actually going to a 3-4. (We don't know yet).


Eric, my read on it was that JPP would've always been a 3-4 end, not a linebacker. Vernon would be a linebacker, sure.

JPP's best role in that system would've been on the end with Tomlinson on the other side and Harrison in the middle. I think you look at a guy like Rasheem Green as a potential replacement in the draft. Another really intriguing guy if the medicals are ok is Maurice Hurst. He'd probably need to fall into the 2nd round where we'd be a player.

One of my favorites that could be in play in the 3rd round is Derek Nnadi from FSU. He's very versatile, can play end or the NT on passing downs.

A projectable 3-4 end that may be available in the 3rd is Jalyn Holmes from Ohio State. Needs to put on more muscle, but he'd be a good fit with a little bit of work on his body.

In the 4th round R.J. McIntosh from Miami would be a consideration.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
Jim in Fairfax : 3/22/2018 11:45 am : link
In comment 13879883 BillT said:
Quote:


Ok. Let's try it this way. (and I mean this as a question) How much on the Giants cap this year from JPP signing bonus. $15m. Correct? How much less do they have to pay for JPP's services this year. $12.5m. Correct? I think the $17.5 number is not part of the equation because it includes money that isn't leaving the Giants payroll. The 15 and the 12.5 are the only numbers that matter. 12.5 less 15 is -2.5.

I get where youre coming from, but youre essentially double counting the $5M bonus they were already paying if they had kept him. Its onky a $10M ADDITIONAL cap hit due to the trade.

Consider it this way:

KEEP JPP: 2018 cap hit = $17.5M. Future cap hit = $10M
TRADE JPP: 2018 cap hit = $15M. Future cap hit = $0

That a $2.5M savings this year and a $10M savings going forward.
Lesson learned  
PhilSimms15 : 3/22/2018 11:45 am : link
Gentleman clearly keeps his own close counsel.

So many pundits are predicting what the Giants will do with the second pick the draft; some with wording that makes it seems like they know.

The JPP deal comes out of the clear blue, not one rumor from our esteemed Giants beat writers or any of the big football media.

No one knows yet what the Giants will do with the second pick in the draft. Is is also very possible, that the Giants still do not know.
RE: They hired a defensive coordinator who has never run anything  
allstarjim : 3/22/2018 11:45 am : link
In comment 13879974 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
other than a 3-4, and picked up 3-4 alignment defensive free agents. and traded for a MLB who had just come from playing in a 3-4

I think we can be pretty sure at this point.


I agree, writing is clearly on the wall.
RE: RE: The longest tenured Giants draft pick is Zak DeOssie  
dpinzow : 3/22/2018 11:45 am : link
In comment 13879981 jestersdead said:
Quote:
In comment 13879967 dpinzow said:


Quote:


2007, long snapper

The second longest tenured Giants draft pick is.....OBJ

(Eli was not technically a Giants draft pick)



Was JPP the last remaining draft pick from 2010-2013?


From 2008 to 2013

2013: Pugh signed with Arizona, Hankins, Damontre Moore, Nassib are FA. Rest of the 2013 class is out of the league.

2012: Everyone from the 2012 draft class is out of the league

2011: Prince Amukamara is with the Bears. The rest of that class is out of the league

2010: JPP just traded to Tampa, Linval currently a star DT with the Vikings. The rest of that class is out of the league

2009: Will Beatty is a backup OT with the Eagles. The rest of that class is out of the league

2008: The entire 2008 draft class is out of the league
don't know why the assumption that Chubb is in play  
micky : 3/22/2018 11:45 am : link
automatically.
Make no mistake...  
Slade : 3/22/2018 11:46 am : link
This is as much about cleaning up the locker room as it was about 'fitting a scheme' and 'clearing cap space'.
RE: Make no mistake...  
bceagle05 : 3/22/2018 11:47 am : link
In comment 13880022 Slade said:
Quote:
This is as much about cleaning up the locker room as it was about 'fitting a scheme' and 'clearing cap space'.


I just mentioned on another thread that perhaps JPP was identified as one of the leaks last year. In addition to his typical motor issues.
Well now we can be sure it's not about cleaning up the locker room.  
Heisenberg : 3/22/2018 11:48 am : link
.
So relieved we got out of that deal....  
Torrag : 3/22/2018 11:48 am : link
...he proved who he was last season. As many feared he got the big money and he mailed it in. Never was a factor at all last season. Also a culture move because let's face it, be honest, JPP isn't a very smart person.
I remember when we drafted him.  
Giant John : 3/22/2018 11:48 am : link
I was throw the tv out the window furious. Felt he was too raw with a high probability of being just another guy. He never was anything special and then he stupidly blew off half his hand. My opinion has not changed. Glad to close this chapter of Giant history.
Well this move gets rid of an albatross contract.....  
Doomster : 3/22/2018 11:51 am : link
and I think it means, this team is more in rebuild mode than play for this year...

I think it's almost a certainty, we draft a QB at #2, and Eli will be gone in 2019, unless he really shows something this year...

While it creates a hole, it's not a big hole, for what JPP has done for the last few seasons.....

I wonder if they talked about a paycut before the trade?
Typical Giants, ALWAYS Telegraphing their draft moves. 😜😜  
Big Blue '56 : 3/22/2018 11:52 am : link


Delighted with this
Apparently it saves us  
Don in DC : 3/22/2018 11:52 am : link
$1.5 million on the cap this year, and $19 million on the cap next year. The cap savings this year are ok, and the 3rd rounder is nice. But the $19MM it saves us next year? That means we cana keep our priority free agents going forward. And that's huge.

Overall, this is an amazing, outstanding move. Now we just gotta hope that Gettleman's luck with 3rd round picks is better than Reese's was.
RE: I remember when we drafted him.  
Slade : 3/22/2018 11:52 am : link
In comment 13880037 Giant John said:
Quote:
I was throw the tv out the window furious. Felt he was too raw with a high probability of being just another guy. He never was anything special and then he stupidly blew off half his hand. My opinion has not changed. Glad to close this chapter of Giant history.


He was absolutely special in his first few years and worked his tail off to get back... He is not a leader and once he got paid...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So see if i have this right.  
BillT : 3/22/2018 11:54 am : link
In comment 13880008 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 13879883 BillT said:


Quote:




Ok. Let's try it this way. (and I mean this as a question) How much on the Giants cap this year from JPP signing bonus. $15m. Correct? How much less do they have to pay for JPP's services this year. $12.5m. Correct? I think the $17.5 number is not part of the equation because it includes money that isn't leaving the Giants payroll. The 15 and the 12.5 are the only numbers that matter. 12.5 less 15 is -2.5.


I get where youre coming from, but youre essentially double counting the $5M bonus they were already paying if they had kept him. Its onky a $10M ADDITIONAL cap hit due to the trade.

Consider it this way:

KEEP JPP: 2018 cap hit = $17.5M. Future cap hit = $10M
TRADE JPP: 2018 cap hit = $15M. Future cap hit = $0

That a $2.5M savings this year and a $10M savings going forward.

You're still using the 17.5 Think that's a mistake. It may be $10M savings going forward but that 10m is on this year's cap along with the 5m that is part of the 17.5. 17.5 minus 5 is 12.5m compared to the 15m still on this year's cap. Ok though, I get both sides. Thanks.
I'm actually surprised they got a high 3rd for him.  
GeofromNJ : 3/22/2018 11:56 am : link
Yeah, I know, the Giants 4th is like a very late 3rd, but the Giants also got the Bucs 4th (108 vs. 102). As talented as he is otherwise, it's basically impossible to play a high level of football with essentially only one hand. I'm glad he's already been paid. Hate to see him walk away with no money and slightly disabled.
RE: I remember when we drafted him.  
Klaatu : 3/22/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 13880037 Giant John said:
Quote:
I was throw the tv out the window furious. Felt he was too raw with a high probability of being just another guy. He never was anything special and then he stupidly blew off half his hand. My opinion has not changed. Glad to close this chapter of Giant history.


He was something special in 2011. He could have been (maybe should have been) the DPOY that year.
RE: I remember when we drafted him.  
speedywheels : 3/22/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13880037 Giant John said:
Quote:
I was throw the tv out the window furious. Felt he was too raw with a high probability of being just another guy. He never was anything special and then he stupidly blew off half his hand. My opinion has not changed. Glad to close this chapter of Giant history.


Sounds like you missed his 2011 season...
Hope next offseason  
Mr. Nickels : 3/22/2018 12:01 pm : link
we get rid of Vernon Apple and flowers.. will take a lot to replace them though
RE: Make no mistake...  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13880022 Slade said:
Quote:
This is as much about cleaning up the locker room as it was about 'fitting a scheme' and 'clearing cap space'.


So, now it's confirmed that this move had nothing to do with the locker room.
Who Hates This Trade The Most?  
MojoEd : 3/22/2018 12:03 pm : link
My guess is CLE. Bet they were banking on scooping up Chubb at #4. Now we increased potential bidders for our #2 pick as the key slot for not only QB but also Chubb (with supposed large drop off in talent to next best DE). I could support the move on just locker room and future salary cap improvement, by slapping the smug off CLE GM Dorsey is a really solid plus for me.
Gettleman's quote per jpp rings true - offer they couldn't refuse  
Eric on Li : 3/22/2018 12:04 pm : link
he's 29, clearly past his prime, overpaid, a questionable scheme fit, and Tampa gave up the 69th pick in the draft for him. You do that deal every time. Don't think this was necessarily part of any plan.
15 million is a lot of dead money  
Vanzetti : 3/22/2018 12:05 pm : link
For only a mid-round pick in exchange

RE: RE: I remember when we drafted him.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13880067 Slade said:
Quote:
In comment 13880037 Giant John said:


Quote:


I was throw the tv out the window furious. Felt he was too raw with a high probability of being just another guy. He never was anything special and then he stupidly blew off half his hand. My opinion has not changed. Glad to close this chapter of Giant history.



He was absolutely special in his first few years and worked his tail off to get back... He is not a leader and once he got paid...


Once he got paid he proceeded to go out play 91% of all defensive snaps. He really mailed it in.
Love this move. Cap savings AND a mid-round pick  
mikeinbloomfield : 3/22/2018 12:05 pm : link
for a player on the downside of his career. I am struggling to recall a game last year where JPP made an impact.
Am I missing something here?  
Doomster : 3/22/2018 12:05 pm : link
There is NO cap savings for this year.....

That 15M bonus money is on the books.....we save his guaranteed salary of 11.25 and roster bonus of 1M and workout bonus of 0.25, or 12.5M is saved.....thus we have dead money on him of 2.5M.....we created no cap relief as I see it for 2018......but after that, we saved 27M over the two following years....
It's a marginal cap savings of 2.5m this year. The value is really in  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 12:07 pm : link
having his contract gone next year.
JPP and the draft.  
Jerry K : 3/22/2018 12:07 pm : link
JPP flashed occasionally last year, but overall I thought his play was poor. In some cases it was terrible. It's a good move to get his contract off the books but it would be foolish for the Giants to tie their own hands on draft day by thinking they have to replace JPP. They've got to pick the best available player and not draft to fill a need.

That said, I'm open to the possibility that they are already convinced of Chubb's pro bowl potential. We'll probably never know.
RE: Am I missing something here?  
Jay on the Island : 3/22/2018 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13880127 Doomster said:
Quote:
There is NO cap savings for this year.....

That 15M bonus money is on the books.....we save his guaranteed salary of 11.25 and roster bonus of 1M and workout bonus of 0.25, or 12.5M is saved.....thus we have dead money on him of 2.5M.....we created no cap relief as I see it for 2018......but after that, we saved 27M over the two following years....

They created only 2.5 million of cap room this season but 19.5 million for next season. This was clearly a move towards the future.
RE: 15 million is a lot of dead money  
Eric on Li : 3/22/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13880122 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
For only a mid-round pick in exchange


might be semantics, but 69th pick isn't middle round. Dalvin Tomlinson was the 55th pick last year. He was practically a better player than JPP day 1 and he's under team control for 4-5 years. This trade is a steal.
RE: RE: Make no mistake...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/22/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13880112 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13880022 Slade said:


Quote:


This is as much about cleaning up the locker room as it was about 'fitting a scheme' and 'clearing cap space'.



So, now it's confirmed that this move had nothing to do with the locker room.


LOL.
RE: It's a marginal cap savings of 2.5m this year. The value is really in  
Eric on Li : 3/22/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13880135 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
having his contract gone next year.


and the pick. The 69th pick in the draft has a lot of value. Dalvin Tomlinson was 55th pick last year.
That High Third Round Pick from Tampa Bay...  
M.S. : 3/22/2018 12:16 pm : link

...could be huge!

If we play it smart (and maybe with a little luck), maybe that 69th pick ends up as a starting offensive lineman!

Or, maybe it's combined with our 66th pick to move up into the second round to snag someone who inexplicably fell out of Round One, and turns into a solid starter!!!
RE: DG is the JPP of GMs!  
johnnyb : 3/22/2018 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13879889 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
.


DG has only seven fingers? Never knew!
RE: RE: RE: The longest tenured Giants draft pick is Zak DeOssie  
Giants in 07 : 3/22/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13880013 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 13879981 jestersdead said:


Quote:


In comment 13879967 dpinzow said:


Quote:


2007, long snapper

The second longest tenured Giants draft pick is.....OBJ

(Eli was not technically a Giants draft pick)



Was JPP the last remaining draft pick from 2010-2013?



From 2008 to 2013

2013: Pugh signed with Arizona, Hankins, Damontre Moore, Nassib are FA. Rest of the 2013 class is out of the league.

2012: Everyone from the 2012 draft class is out of the league

2011: Prince Amukamara is with the Bears. The rest of that class is out of the league

2010: JPP just traded to Tampa, Linval currently a star DT with the Vikings. The rest of that class is out of the league

2009: Will Beatty is a backup OT with the Eagles. The rest of that class is out of the league

2008: The entire 2008 draft class is out of the league


God this is pathetic
RE: Lesson learned  
Peppers : 3/22/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13880011 PhilSimms15 said:
Quote:
Gentleman clearly keeps his own close counsel.

So many pundits are predicting what the Giants will do with the second pick the draft; some with wording that makes it seems like they know.

The JPP deal comes out of the clear blue, not one rumor from our esteemed Giants beat writers or any of the big football media.

No one knows yet what the Giants will do with the second pick in the draft. Is is also very possible, that the Giants still do not know.


This here.. I've heard NYG is like a vault right now. Caught wind on some interest but that's literally about it. A lot of assumptions are being made and passed off as "from my sources".
....  
Homer_Jones : 3/22/2018 12:22 pm : link
Why would the Giants trade to #1? That means Cleveland doesn't want Darnold. So let them pick Allen. Or vice versa if that's the case.

No one else is jumping to 1. Buffalo would have to give up way too much. Only Denver has a shot and the I got this feeling the Jets want Mayfield (Not sure Denver or the Jets want a pick that is too similar to recent busts).

I also see, reading the pro day reviews, that everyone is back on the Darnold train. I can't see Cleveland passing one more time on a or the top QB. Even if Darnold bombs, they can point to the fact that he was the consensus #1 pick. If they pick anyone else and they bomb, the hot seat will get some juice.

I don't want a QB anyway. A trade with Denver would be fine. You can get Nelson, their #2 and next year's 1 which can be used to move up for a QB.
He was gone after 2018 anyway  
ij_reilly : 3/22/2018 12:22 pm : link
JPP wasn't going to be back in 2019, not with that contract.

May as well get something for him now, even though that's a lot of dead money.

Given the Gettleman Era, JPP was a very expensive one-year rental, that's all. The Giant got out of the lease and did pretty well, I think.
RE: RE: RE: The longest tenured Giants draft pick is Zak DeOssie  
ryanmkeane : 3/22/2018 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13880013 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 13879981 jestersdead said:


Quote:


In comment 13879967 dpinzow said:


Quote:


2007, long snapper

The second longest tenured Giants draft pick is.....OBJ

(Eli was not technically a Giants draft pick)



Was JPP the last remaining draft pick from 2010-2013?



From 2008 to 2013

2013: Pugh signed with Arizona, Hankins, Damontre Moore, Nassib are FA. Rest of the 2013 class is out of the league.

2012: Everyone from the 2012 draft class is out of the league

2011: Prince Amukamara is with the Bears. The rest of that class is out of the league

2010: JPP just traded to Tampa, Linval currently a star DT with the Vikings. The rest of that class is out of the league

2009: Will Beatty is a backup OT with the Eagles. The rest of that class is out of the league

2008: The entire 2008 draft class is out of the league

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?
I thought JPP was trying hard last season  
cosmicj : 3/22/2018 12:26 pm : link
but was also in serious physical decline, which limited his performance. Overweight with a paunch, clearly slower than he was a few seasons ago, with limited functional strength and power. Given his physical trajectory, I'm very happy about this trade.
They did not save  
Doomster : 3/22/2018 12:27 pm : link
2.5M this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: They did not save  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 12:29 pm : link
In comment 13880213 Doomster said:
Quote:
2.5M this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You pick odd hills to die on.

RE: I remember when we drafted him.  
Greg from LI : 3/22/2018 12:30 pm : link
In comment 13880037 Giant John said:
Quote:
He never was anything special


He absolutely was something special in 2011. Never played at that level again, though.
...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 12:31 pm : link
The Giants are saving $12.5M in cash in 2018 because the Bucs will be paying Jason Pierre-Paul's $11.25M base salary, $1M in per game roster bonuses & $250,000 workout bonus. The Giants get $2.5M of 2018 salary cap relief. There's $15M in dead money from his $20M signing bonus.
JPP was a freaking beast in 2011.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/22/2018 12:31 pm : link
I remember thinking that he was going to be a HOFer.
...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 12:33 pm : link
New Bucs DE Jason Pierre-Paul will now play his home games in the same stadium he did as a USF Bull. The Giants will save just $2.5 million on the cap here. His figure was $17.5 million. His dead money = $15 million.

According to the NFLPA public cap report, as of March 22, 11 a.m. ET, the Giants had just $3,415,606 of cap space left, a total that is not believed to include the signing of defensive end Josh Mauro (who probably didnt get a one-year minimum salary deal).

The removal of JPPs contract gives the Giants just $2.5 million in savings, which is calculated by taking the $17.5 million he was due to count for against this years cap and subtracting the remaining $15 million in prorated signing bonus money from that total.


RE: They did not save  
Jim in Fairfax : 3/22/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13880213 Doomster said:
Quote:
2.5M this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sigh.

JPP was going to be a $17.5M cap hit in 2018. Now hes a $15M cap hit.

You do the math.
Can Chubb play as a 3-4 DE?  
Simms11 : 3/22/2018 12:36 pm : link
Hes more suited as a 4-3 DE. I dont see the Giants taking him at 2 or even in a trade down, unless Bettcher feels strongly that Chubb can make that move and play well there. Thats a very big risk o take being in the top 5 of the draft! I still 5hink they may look at other DEs more suited to a 3-4 in the 2nd and now 3rd rounds.
RE: RE: They did not save  
Klaatu : 3/22/2018 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13880220 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13880213 Doomster said:


Quote:


2.5M this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You pick odd hills to die on.


As long as he dies, who cares?

OOHH! He's back, ladies and gentlemen, and he's still BAD!
RE: Can Chubb play as a 3-4 DE?  
allstarjim : 3/22/2018 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13880243 Simms11 said:
Quote:
Hes more suited as a 4-3 DE. I dont see the Giants taking him at 2 or even in a trade down, unless Bettcher feels strongly that Chubb can make that move and play well there. Thats a very big risk o take being in the top 5 of the draft! I still 5hink they may look at other DEs more suited to a 3-4 in the 2nd and now 3rd rounds.


If Chubb becomes a Giant it will be more surprising than this trade. Much more.
RE: RE: I remember when we drafted him.  
Rjanyg : 3/22/2018 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13880223 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13880037 Giant John said:


Quote:


He never was anything special



He absolutely was something special in 2011. Never played at that level again, though.


I need to add that JPP had 16 sacks and many of them were from the inside position in the NASCAR package. Lets not forget that the other DE's on the team were OSI, Tuck and KIWI. Our D Line was stacked. JPP was not a starter. He had a very good year. But he was a rotational player.
RE: don't know why the assumption that Chubb is in play  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/22/2018 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13880014 micky said:
Quote:
automatically.


We traded away a prototypical 4-3 DE that is the odd man out in a 3-4 to draft another 4-3 DE?
RE: JPP was a freaking beast in 2011.  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13880230 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I remember thinking that he was going to be a HOFer.


That should be a lesson to all of us. Things change. Career paths are not always straight lines upward.

JPP did the Giants a huge favor when he blew his hand up. He gave them an out. Instead they foolishly stuck with him. They doubled down on that foolishness when they franchised him. They then doubled down on THAT foolishness with this ridiculous contract.

Foolishness, sentimentality, and myopia have marked the moves made by this team for years now. If Gettleman is going to undo those mistakes then trading JPP should just be the beginning.
Wow - just saw this (west coast)  
short lease : 3/22/2018 12:41 pm : link
Can't say I am sad to see him go ....he is closer to home anyway.

Good Luck JPP.
JPP, Nicks, Cruz plus Eli right in his prime.  
bceagle05 : 3/22/2018 12:43 pm : link
I thought that core group would keep us in contention for several years, and it's been a dumpster fire instead.
Another hole. This is a rebuild.  
Dave in Hoboken : 3/22/2018 12:43 pm : link
.
Anyone still think DG was the 'safe' GM choice?  
RobCarpenter : 3/22/2018 12:44 pm : link
Since he's been the GM:

Fired Ross
Hired Shurmur - who hired Bettcher (the one who Arians wanted to replace him in AZ)
Signed two new O-linemen, including a capable LT
Did not keep marginal OL talent (Pugh, Richburg)
Traded for new LB
Signed several veteran DBs
Signed veteran RB
Created about $20M in cap space for 2019 by trading an overpriced DE AND got an additional third round pick




IMO the best thing about this deal  
GiantsLaw : 3/22/2018 12:45 pm : link
is the surprise of it. It means nobody knows wtf DG is really up to.
RE: RE: JPP was a freaking beast in 2011.  
RobCarpenter : 3/22/2018 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13880262 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13880230 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I remember thinking that he was going to be a HOFer.



That should be a lesson to all of us. Things change. Career paths are not always straight lines upward.

JPP did the Giants a huge favor when he blew his hand up. He gave them an out. Instead they foolishly stuck with him. They doubled down on that foolishness when they franchised him. They then doubled down on THAT foolishness with this ridiculous contract.

Foolishness, sentimentality, and myopia have marked the moves made by this team for years now. If Gettleman is going to undo those mistakes then trading JPP should just be the beginning.


Reese's biggest fault is pride. His failures as GM all come from his inability to see when he made a mistake.
I don't think anyone was using 'safe' as another way to say  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 12:46 pm : link
he wasn't going to do anything. It was clear things would be changing when Mara fired a GM.
RE: Anyone still think DG was the 'safe' GM choice?  
short lease : 3/22/2018 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13880275 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
Since he's been the GM:

Fired Ross
Hired Shurmur - who hired Bettcher (the one who Arians wanted to replace him in AZ)
Signed two new O-linemen, including a capable LT
Did not keep marginal OL talent (Pugh, Richburg)
Traded for new LB
Signed several veteran DBs
Signed veteran RB
Created about $20M in cap space for 2019 by trading an overpriced DE AND got an additional third round pick





Can't wait to see how he handle's the draft ... I think we are going to be in for a couple of surprises.
glad he is gone  
2cents : 3/22/2018 12:46 pm : link
desperate signing by JR when they extended, just didnt make any sense other then, glad he is gone. Started his career with a bang playing behind some all time greats, but at as soon as he got his chance to be "THE GUY" it seemed to blow up in his face.. (Pun intended)

playing 90% of snaps looks alot different if you consider all the plays he disappears on and has zero impact. havent seen him make a big play or stop on 3rd down since 2011.

good riddance.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 12:48 pm : link
Can also look at it this way -

We really didn't lose anything by re-upping him.

We gained a 3rd rd pick out of it, only paid him for 2 of the years and got out of it before it gets much worse.

It wound up being a crappy deal to give him when all was said and done, but it's also why it's not worth going insane over contracts. We got rid of it and gained an asset out of it.

We have another hole to fill now, but whatever. What's done is done. Didn't do much damage.
This makes me excited  
dune69 : 3/22/2018 12:49 pm : link
We have not been able to get pressure on the QB for years. A team with all day to pass will hurt you. It's not all on JPP but it was time for a change. New defensive coordinator and new schemes sometimes calls for different skills. We may take a step back at first but I'm excited to start filling this defense with a new attitude. Hopefully Gettleman and staff have the right names on their draft board.
Didn't lose anything?  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 12:50 pm : link
How about two years of pass rush?
RE: RE: They did not save  
Harvest Blend : 3/22/2018 12:51 pm : link
In comment 13880220 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13880213 Doomster said:


Quote:


2.5M this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You pick odd hills to die on.


lol.
RE: RE: They did not save  
Gmen4Life21 : 3/22/2018 12:51 pm : link
In comment 13880237 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 13880213 Doomster said:


Quote:


2.5M this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sigh.

JPP was going to be a $17.5M cap hit in 2018. Now hes a $15M cap hit.

You do the math.


Interesting...so it saves a few Mill this year which is helpful. But what people aren't saying is it frees a huge amount of cap space in 2019/2020, it looks like $14.5m in 2019 and $12.5m in 2020, is that correct?

There's not a lot of FA left we want to sign so a ton of space wouldn't be a much benefit, but the cap space is a big help going forward.
The idea we 'got nothing' is off base...  
Torrag : 3/22/2018 12:53 pm : link
...a Top 70 pick and moving from the back of Round 4(#140) to #108 is something. It's especially something if the new regime does a better job drafting in the critical middle area of the Draft.
.  
fkap : 3/22/2018 12:54 pm : link


IF he has a stellar year, or two, it probably would chalk up to a bad trade for us. History doesn't lend one to believe he's got a stellar year left in him. he'd have been worth it to keep for the mil or two we gained on the cap, but then you're taking a cap hit next year to get rid of him.

Bottom line, he duped us and laughed all the way to the bank. That was a horrible contract and he put in a horrible effort after he signed it. The downside is that he'll likely put in something of an effort this year - it's his MO: do just enough to tantalize a team into keeping him/signing him. Now that the Bucs can dump him without an amortized signing bonus to accelerate, he'll get his guar
RE: Didn't lose anything?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13880300 Go Terps said:
Quote:
How about two years of pass rush?


From who? They didn't have any. And I'd hardly assume that they could have drafted a qualified replacement.
RE: Who Hates This Trade The Most?  
Eman11 : 3/22/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13880113 MojoEd said:
Quote:
My guess is CLE. Bet they were banking on scooping up Chubb at #4. Now we increased potential bidders for our #2 pick as the key slot for not only QB but also Chubb (with supposed large drop off in talent to next best DE). I could support the move on just locker room and future salary cap improvement, by slapping the smug off CLE GM Dorsey is a really solid plus for me.


Totally agree. I think they really wanted Chubb and not Barkley at 4 all along.

I can see Dorsey getting antsy about the Giants taking Chubb and offer up some picks to swap the #4 for the #2. DG comes out great with his guy still at 4 (assuming he doesn't want a QB at 2) and some picks taboot!
Great move!  
Miamijints : 3/22/2018 12:56 pm : link
Surprised DG was able to get a 3rd in this deal. Stoked!
Jim,  
Doomster : 3/22/2018 12:57 pm : link
RE: They did not save
Jim in Fairfax : 12:33 pm : link : reply
In comment 13880213 Doomster said:
Quote:
2.5M this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sigh.

JPP was going to be a $17.5M cap hit in 2018. Now hes a $15M cap hit.

You do the math.


You are confusing Cap money with Dead money.......
Fantastic move...  
the mike : 3/22/2018 12:57 pm : link
Not only do they move on from JPP, who has never lived up to the potential he flashed in 2011 and is not well suited to a 3-4 defense, but they get the 69th pic in the draft, free up $2.5MM and get out from that abominable contract that never should have been granted to begin with. AND Gettleman further clouds the Giants' draft intentions thereby again making the second pick more valuable to more teams... Browns can no longer bank on Chubb being there at four. So if this somehow enables us to trade back to four and still get Barkley PLUS a haul of pics, Gettleman will be hailed a genius...
RE: RE: Didn't lose anything?  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13880318 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13880300 Go Terps said:


Quote:


How about two years of pass rush?



From who? They didn't have any. And I'd hardly assume that they could have drafted a qualified replacement.


Maybe we sign someone else at another position, who knows?

But with the way it has worked out with JPP since the fireworks incident, I'd take the unknown over what we actually got.
RE: Didn't lose anything?  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13880300 Go Terps said:
Quote:
How about two years of pass rush?


15.5 sacks isn't exactly no pass rush.

The contract wound up not working out, but it's not like the guy was a complete zero.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 12:59 pm : link
JPP is a good player that we were paying like a great player.

It is what it is - he's gone, we're out of the contract, and we got an extra 3rd rd pick out of it to help with the rebuild process.

Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.
arc  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 1:01 pm : link
Quote:
Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.


When you string enough rationalizations like this one together, it actually does end up crippling the franchise.

The Giants could have traded JPP for nothing and they'd be in a better place today than yesterday.

That's your own weirdness talking.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 1:03 pm : link
Man you really take this stuff personally.
RE: Typical Giants, ALWAYS Telegraphing their draft moves. 😜😜  
Snacks : 3/22/2018 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13880064 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:


Delighted with this


He's back folks!!!!!!!
So I guess Bettcher isn't going to turn JPP into Chandler Jones  
Brown Recluse : 3/22/2018 1:06 pm : link
afterall...
Doomster  
fkap : 3/22/2018 1:10 pm : link
the dead money IS the 2018 cap hit.

had we kept JPP:
11.25 Salary
5 mil amortized signing bonus
1 mil roster bonus
.25 workout bonus
=
17.5 mil

we traded him, so we're on the hook for 5 mil amortized bonus X 3 years left on the contract = 15 mil. That's now the cap hit (unless we spread it over 2 years).

17.5 - 15 = 2.5
RE: Jim,  
Jim in Fairfax : 3/22/2018 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13880322 Doomster said:
Quote:
RE: They did not save
Jim in Fairfax : 12:33 pm : link : reply
In comment 13880213 Doomster said:
Quote:
2.5M this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sigh.

JPP was going to be a $17.5M cap hit in 2018. Now hes a $15M cap hit.

You do the math.


You are confusing Cap money with Dead money.......


Dead money IS cap money its money against your cap for a departed player.

Pre trade they owed 17.5 against the cap for JPP.
Post trade they owe $15M in dead money against the cap.
RE: arc  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13880343 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Quote:


Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.



When you string enough rationalizations like this one together, it actually does end up crippling the franchise.



I'm not even sure what this means, really.

He played here for two years with cap hits under 10M - his cap hit last year was barely even over 7M.

So, we got two okay years from him before his cap hit ballooned and then we dealt him for an asset.

Zero harm done here.
The commentary here is absolutely hilarious  
ThatLimerickGuy : 3/22/2018 1:19 pm : link
Seeking that 2 years ago everyone here except for me and GoTerps was fellating the guy.

RobCarpenter  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 1:21 pm : link
Sure he was the safe choice. Mara is comfortable with him. He stuck with Eli.

Ross was tied to Reese. He was as good as gone. What will be more telling is if Gettleman fires scouts after the draft.

Hire Shurmur? Shurmur himself was the safe choice.

Not sure how signing Solder isn't "safe"... I would argue the opposite. It would have more risky to bite the bullet and rebuild at the position with a rookie.

Part ways with Pugh and Richburg? Not sure how this is indicative of either. These two got paid $90 million by other teams.

The CBs he signed are not good defensive backs. Jonathan Stewart was likely overpaid and a questionable move.

Right now, Gettleman is cleaning up the mess Ross and Reese left - but anyone would have done that.

Thus far, the biggest culture shock has been the two trades - the one for Ogletree and the trade away of JPP.
'everyone here except for me and'...  
Torrag : 3/22/2018 1:21 pm : link
You really are one clueless bastard.
RE: The commentary here is absolutely hilarious  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13880399 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
Seeking that 2 years ago everyone here except for me and GoTerps was fellating the guy.


Another "give me credit" post.
RE: The commentary here is absolutely hilarious  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13880399 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
Seeking that 2 years ago everyone here except for me and GoTerps was fellating the guy.


Folks should be honest about this. He's right.
JPP's been a whipping boy on BBI for quite some time  
bceagle05 : 3/22/2018 1:22 pm : link
but yes, some were on his case earlier than others. I thought the franchise tag should've been pulled the minute he refused to see Ronnie Barnes down in Florida. Shocked they held onto him after that, and even more shocked they doubled down with a new contract.
RE: RE: arc  
2cents : 3/22/2018 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13880395 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13880343 Go Terps said:


Quote:




Quote:


Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.



When you string enough rationalizations like this one together, it actually does end up crippling the franchise.





I'm not even sure what this means, really.

He played here for two years with cap hits under 10M - his cap hit last year was barely even over 7M.

So, we got two okay years from him before his cap hit ballooned and then we dealt him for an asset.

Zero harm done here.


arc,
I tend to agree with you that i dont think it crippled the organization but i cannot come around to say zero harm done. There is no arguing that our team would be much better off today and tomorrow if we were using that $15.5 mil on starting players (left side of OL of Sodler AND Norwell would be a thing of beauty).

in the end though, what's done is done and i dont think this is setting us back much. Undoubtedly, we should add it to the list of Reese's bad moves.
RE: The commentary here is absolutely hilarious  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13880399 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
Seeking that 2 years ago everyone here except for me and GoTerps was fellating the guy.


You still can't figure out why people can't stand you...

Every post is of the self-congratulatory variety.

"I was right!"

"I said this all along!"

"No one listened but I always knew it!"

No one cares.
Limerick  
fkap : 3/22/2018 1:25 pm : link
the board has been very divided on JPP even before he blew half his hand off.

I'd guess that more said nay than yea after that incident.
To me, JPP  
BlackLight : 3/22/2018 1:26 pm : link
has always been a guy who relied too much on his athletic freakiness to succeed in the NFL. I never thought he really applied himself to learning the DE position completely. He was great his first year, because people didn't know what to expect. Once they knew, he regressed to being "pretty good." Then he blew off his hand and started having other injuries, and he wasn't even that anymore. Certainly not worth the 2nd contract he signed.
Kemoko Turay DE Rutgers 6' 5" 252 scholor athlete  
gtt350 : 3/22/2018 1:26 pm : link
3rd rd pick. he's a young JJP
RE: RE: RE: arc  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13880411 2cents said:
Quote:
In comment 13880395 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13880343 Go Terps said:


Quote:




Quote:


Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.



When you string enough rationalizations like this one together, it actually does end up crippling the franchise.





I'm not even sure what this means, really.

He played here for two years with cap hits under 10M - his cap hit last year was barely even over 7M.

So, we got two okay years from him before his cap hit ballooned and then we dealt him for an asset.

Zero harm done here.



arc,
I tend to agree with you that i dont think it crippled the organization but i cannot come around to say zero harm done. There is no arguing that our team would be much better off today and tomorrow if we were using that $15.5 mil on starting players (left side of OL of Sodler AND Norwell would be a thing of beauty).

in the end though, what's done is done and i dont think this is setting us back much. Undoubtedly, we should add it to the list of Reese's bad moves.


I think we had a price on Norwell and he simply chose JAX.

Even if we had more cap space, I don't think we were going to go above a certain offer. Our offer was competitive with theirs - he just wanted to play there instead. Nothing we could do about that.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. Maybe "no harm done" is being too generous - but this didn't wind up being nearly as problematic a signing as some thought it may be.
who the hell is JJP  
gtt350 : 3/22/2018 1:28 pm : link
JPP
I think this becomes a two year rebuild  
dcp : 3/22/2018 1:28 pm : link
similar to what the Rams did. I would continue to trade down to acquire D-Line and O-Line to fit the scheme of the coaching staff. QB is not the priority this draft, acquiring talent through trade down from #2 is. This season they will battle on D and scuffle on Offense until the line begins to gel. In 2019 or 2020, acquire a QB as Eli is not getting benched in 2018.
RE: So I guess Bettcher isn't going to turn JPP into Chandler Jones  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/22/2018 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13880363 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
afterall...


Who was under the impression that he was? Olivier Vernon was the player who was used in a 2 point stance this past season, like Chandler Jones. While this trade is shocking, JPP really didn't have a true fit in a 34 defense.
RE: RE: The commentary here is absolutely hilarious  
Greg from LI : 3/22/2018 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13880405 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:

Folks should be honest about this. He's right.


I don't agree. I think opinions on JPP were pretty divided for a while, even before he blew up his hand. Don't you remember those KWALL-against-the-world wall of text posts where KWALL would extensively explain why anyone who didn't think JPP was an All-Pro was wrong, and how there would be about twenty people arguing with him?
I also don't think this trade necessarily means anything  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/22/2018 1:32 pm : link
for Bradley Chubb because I don't think he's a great fit for this defense either.
Good trade. Guess we really are going 3-4  
DennyInDenville : 3/22/2018 1:34 pm : link
3rd rounder is an early one as mentioned.

We will def be taking atleast 1 pass rusher with our first 4 picks in rounds 1-3
NYG signed the correct OL during the FA period  
Chris684 : 3/22/2018 1:34 pm : link
even if they "overpaid" and some don't like it.

Norwell would have been a nice get, but I'll take Omameh for the money he got all day.

Also, as you look to the next phase of roster construction (the draft) there are far more viable OG/C targets who can come in and start from day 1 via the draft (Nelson, Hernandez, Daniels, Ragnow, Wynn, Smith) than there are tackles who we can actually sleep at night knowing they have improved the blind side. Solder does that for us. I'm literally not sure if there were any other options who could have provided that level of comfort.
Wasnt aware of this as I stopped reading/listening to media  
Big Blue '56 : 3/22/2018 1:34 pm : link
around that time. From Pat Leonard:

Quote:
Plus, maybe its unrelated, but it must be said: Pierre-Paul, 29, also was yucking it up in the Giants locker room with some teammates on Nov. 28, not 10 feet away from Eli Manning as the quarterbacks eyes welled up with tears as he discussed his benching for that weeks game in Oakland.

It was an unforgettable scene, and as the Giants re-commit to Manning, they part ways with Pierre-Paul.

the signing JPP argument is a proxy for the reality that Reese sucked  
Eric on Li : 3/22/2018 1:35 pm : link
we all agree on the latter, no need to over-dramatize how bad JPP was. As he aged he got worse, like most players, but was still decent. Like he often did, Reese made the wrong decision to keep him long term vs. investing the funds elsewhere. Thankfully TB bailed us out and gave us a damn good pick for a declining player. Great job by Gettleman. As I said earlier in the thread his quote relayed by JPP rings true - this was an offer too good to pass up. Dalvin Tomlinson was picked at 55 last year. If we can get a day 1 contributor like him for a 29 year old JPP it will be a home run well worth the 1 time dead cap sacrifice.
I think JPP will play well for the Bucs this year tho  
DennyInDenville : 3/22/2018 1:35 pm : link
I can see him getting 10+ sacks then fading a bit ..

He's got a lot of wear and tear for a 29 year old (knee, back, hand)
RE: Wasnt aware of this as I stopped reading/listening to media  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/22/2018 1:36 pm : link
In comment 13880437 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
around that time. From Pat Leonard:



Quote:


Plus, maybe its unrelated, but it must be said: Pierre-Paul, 29, also was yucking it up in the Giants locker room with some teammates on Nov. 28, not 10 feet away from Eli Manning as the quarterbacks eyes welled up with tears as he discussed his benching for that weeks game in Oakland.

It was an unforgettable scene, and as the Giants re-commit to Manning, they part ways with Pierre-Paul.





As always, Pat Leonard is a moron.
RE: RE: RE: The commentary here is absolutely hilarious  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13880431 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13880405 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:



Folks should be honest about this. He's right.



I don't agree. I think opinions on JPP were pretty divided for a while, even before he blew up his hand. Don't you remember those KWALL-against-the-world wall of text posts where KWALL would extensively explain why anyone who didn't think JPP was an All-Pro was wrong, and how there would be about twenty people arguing with him?


They were very divided.

The only revisionist history going on here is the notion that two people on this entire board were opposed to JPP. That's more ridiculous than anything else being said.

I was in favor of signing him. I thought he'd continue to improve another year removed from the hand incident and part of me was pulling for him as a person because it took a lot of hard work and dedication to get back onto the field when several football people were proclaiming that his career was over and that he'd never get back.

I'm also not averse to admitting when I'm wrong. In retrospect, we probably would have been better off not signing him to that contract. But at the end of the day, it didn't exactly change the fortunes of the franchise one way or another and his performance actually wasn't poor relative to his cap hits.

This was a great time to get out of it and we did.
Why? He's not wrong.  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 1:41 pm : link
Quote:
As always, Pat Leonard is a moron.


Whatever you think of him as a player, JPP was a clown.
.  
Ryan in Albany : 3/22/2018 1:41 pm : link
Beating your chest when you're right  
DieHard : 3/22/2018 1:41 pm : link
Opens yourself up to a lot of shit when you're wrong.
I hope we use this 3rd round pick...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/22/2018 1:42 pm : link
To move up from 34 overall into the first round. By the value chart we could get as high as number 20 overall and I would love to have two picks in the top 20.
RE: Why? He's not wrong.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/22/2018 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13880462 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Quote:


As always, Pat Leonard is a moron.



Whatever you think of him as a player, JPP was a clown.


I wish we had more clowns who were integral parts of Super Bowl Championship teams.
RE: .  
Big Blue '56 : 3/22/2018 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13880463 Ryan in Albany said:
Quote:



😂😂
JPP was fantastic in 2011  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 1:44 pm : link
I have few good memories of him since, just like I do with the rest of the team.
RE: JPP was fantastic in 2011  
figgy2989 : 3/22/2018 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13880469 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I have few good memories of him since, just like I do with the rest of the team.


I am convinced that you wont be happy until we have a team full of John Tuttles.
RE: glad he is gone  
allstarjim : 3/22/2018 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13880286 2cents said:
Quote:
desperate signing by JR when they extended, just didnt make any sense other then, glad he is gone. Started his career with a bang playing behind some all time greats, but at as soon as he got his chance to be "THE GUY" it seemed to blow up in his face.. (Pun intended)

playing 90% of snaps looks alot different if you consider all the plays he disappears on and has zero impact. havent seen him make a big play or stop on 3rd down since 2011.

good riddance.


Well he made a lot. People underestimate how good he was because the sack numbers weren't there. But they don't take into account he was one of the more dominant run-defenders even in 2016 and 2017 he was a good player. Not a great player. He was really good in 2014 and 2012, and of course excellent in 2011. Just the inbetween seasons, the injuries, and the fireworks...left everyone wanting more.
Damn spell check!  
figgy2989 : 3/22/2018 1:48 pm : link
John Tuggle!
RE: .  
allstarjim : 3/22/2018 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13880463 Ryan in Albany said:
Quote:


Argggh ya' down with JPP?
Blacklight  
Gmen4Life21 : 3/22/2018 1:49 pm : link
JPP wasn't a success in the NFL...LOL c'mon...He was MUCH more than "pretty good" after his dominant 2011. He was an impact player.
Yes if do Greg  
KWALL2 : 3/22/2018 1:49 pm : link
And I was right!!!

Again...
figgy  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 1:51 pm : link
I'll be happy when this team actually gives us something to be happy about. Come on...the biggest moments this team has had these past few years is a shitty Dirty Dancing commercial and a boat trip.

If you can't be unhappy with the team now, when can you be?
RE: RE: Wasnt aware of this as I stopped reading/listening to media  
Rory : 3/22/2018 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13880448 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13880437 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


around that time. From Pat Leonard:



Quote:


Plus, maybe its unrelated, but it must be said: Pierre-Paul, 29, also was yucking it up in the Giants locker room with some teammates on Nov. 28, not 10 feet away from Eli Manning as the quarterbacks eyes welled up with tears as he discussed his benching for that weeks game in Oakland.

It was an unforgettable scene, and as the Giants re-commit to Manning, they part ways with Pierre-Paul.







As always, Pat Leonard is a moron.


Why because you don't agree with his story/writing? Because he has access to know what the hell was really going on then some fan? Who's the moron?
RE: RE: RE: Wasnt aware of this as I stopped reading/listening to media  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/22/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13880489 Rory said:
Quote:


Why because you don't agree with his story/writing? Because he has access to know what the hell was really going on then some fan? Who's the moron?


Do you think the Giants traded him because of that incident? IMO, only a moron would think there's a connection between this trade and that incident. Thus, I think Pat Leonard has given us another reason to think he's an imbecile.
RE: figgy  
figgy2989 : 3/22/2018 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13880484 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I'll be happy when this team actually gives us something to be happy about. Come on...the biggest moments this team has had these past few years is a shitty Dirty Dancing commercial and a boat trip.

If you can't be unhappy with the team now, when can you be?


Come on Terps. You have to admit that it finally appears that the team is heading in the right direction. Only one other team has enjoyed hoisting the twice in the last 11 years.
figgy  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 2:03 pm : link
We'll see about the direction. Today's a good day but I'm hoping it's the start of many similar moves.
RE: figgy  
figgy2989 : 3/22/2018 2:08 pm : link
In comment 13880507 Go Terps said:
Quote:
We'll see about the direction. Today's a good day but I'm hoping it's the start of many similar moves.


That is until this new found cap space is used to give OBJ a new contract. You may blow a gasket!
Yeah that's where I see it going  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 2:10 pm : link
I won't blow a gasket. You can see it coming from miles away. I won't say anything when the contract is announced.
RE: RE: The commentary here is absolutely hilarious  
christian : 3/22/2018 2:14 pm : link
In comment 13880412 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13880399 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


Seeking that 2 years ago everyone here except for me and GoTerps was fellating the guy.




You still can't figure out why people can't stand you...

Every post is of the self-congratulatory variety.

"I was right!"

"I said this all along!"

"No one listened but I always knew it!"

No one cares.


This could be solved with a locked sticky just saying TLG is right. It would save so so so many posts.
First off Thank you JPP  
BigBlue1013 : 3/22/2018 2:15 pm : link
for the past 8 seasons. JPP you were a stud. I will never forget the Dallas game. I have your Jersey for a reason. Good Luck in Tampa.

2nd- Thank God Jerry Reese is gone and Dave Gettleman is in charge. Reese(forget the 2 SBs) is a GARBAGE General Manager. I don't need to repeat the mistakes, Jerry made, but geez just look at where the players, we drafted, from 08-13 are currently...

3rd-Gettleman I love you. Yes this is his first offseason so I truly hope he keeps it up. Lets build a consistent roster year in year out.
This move needed to be made and I'm excited for the extra 3rd round pick. So much talent in this draft! We are going to take 2 studs at 66 and 69

I did a mock draft at Fanspeak with the extra pick
Let me know what you guys think

2.Sam Darnold QB USC(Sam will be first so I would go Josh Rosen)
34.Sam Hubbard DE Ohio St.(This seems unrealistic Hubbard looks like a 1st round talent...IF not Hubbard, How about Arden Keys DE LSU?)
66.Brain O'Neil OT Pitt
69.Nick Chubb RB Georgia
108.Darius Leonard LB S.Carolina St.
139.Justin Jones DT NC State
RE: RE: don't know why the assumption that Chubb is in play  
micky : 3/22/2018 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13880260 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 13880014 micky said:


Quote:


automatically.



We traded away a prototypical 4-3 DE that is the odd man out in a 3-4 to draft another 4-3 DE?


unless the new DC runs a hybrid 3-4.

Greg from LI  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 2:16 pm : link
Perhaps my memory is hazy on this, but what I remember is people being divided BEFORE he was re-signed to the $62M deal. But AFTER he was re-signed, most people seemed to be OK with it except for very few folks.

If that isn't true, I stand corrected. But that's the way I remember it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Wasnt aware of this as I stopped reading/listening to media  
Big Blue '56 : 3/22/2018 2:17 pm : link
In comment 13880499 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13880489 Rory said:


Quote:




Why because you don't agree with his story/writing? Because he has access to know what the hell was really going on then some fan? Who's the moron?



Do you think the Giants traded him because of that incident? IMO, only a moron would think there's a connection between this trade and that incident. Thus, I think Pat Leonard has given us another reason to think he's an imbecile.


No. I took it as JPP not being the locker room guy he was purported to be.
I haven't  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2018 2:22 pm : link
looked at it yet, but here is the old thread...
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=550538&show_all=1 - ( New Window )
Art Stapleton's take on the trade  
GFAN52 : 3/22/2018 2:23 pm : link
He said it shouldn't have a big impact on the draft and #2.
Link - ( New Window )
My  
Jon in NYC : 3/22/2018 2:26 pm : link
favorite part of Limerick trying to blow himself is how he has posted so many "inside scoops" that have turned into complete bullshit.
I think DG is doing good things, things that needed to be done, but:  
Victor in CT : 3/22/2018 2:26 pm : link
* It's too soon to say about "heading in the right direction". Cleaning out some of the dead weight needed to be done, but let''s see how the draft goes and the team responds to Shurmur.
* while not the sole reason, JPP yucking it up during Eli's worst day as a Giant was a bad look, and enhanced his rep as being less than a team leader. I think losing the contract was the prime driver. Getting the extra 3rd rounder made it a no brainer.
* I recall there being a divergence of opinion on JPP before AND after the fireworks incident. I never thought he became the great player we hoped for. A good player, not the great dominant guy who made others better, successor to Strahan and Tuck. It's no coincidence that he was at his best in 2011 with Tuck still there, especially in the 2nd half of the year when Tuck snapped out of his funk. I was against the contract they gave him. He wasn't worth it, as they have finally admitted.
* some will contiue to fellate him here no matter what. they know who they are.
Would Chubb be considered  
Sect 146 : 3/22/2018 2:30 pm : link
a Hog Mollie on D???
Hmmm.......
RE: I think DG is doing good things, things that needed to be done, but:  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/22/2018 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13880565 Victor in CT said:
Quote:

* while not the sole reason, JPP yucking it up during Eli's worst day as a Giant was a bad look, and enhanced his rep as being less than a team leader. I think losing the contract was the prime driver. Getting the extra 3rd rounder made it a no brainer.


Had this been JPP's response during "Eli's worst day as a Giant",


this is still a trade they had to make. He has no natural fit in the new defense. They get out from his contract with Beckham/Collins extensions looming and they get a valuable day 2 pick in addition. Bringing up the Eli thing is just pure nonsense and typical of Pat Leonard stupidity.
Interestingly enough  
GiantTuff1 : 3/22/2018 2:39 pm : link
I think JPP's best effort game (since the hand) was his first game back from the injury midway through the season against the Bucs in the rain.

He wasn't in game shape yet, but he was all over the field.
RE: I haven't  
Victor in CT : 3/22/2018 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13880554 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
looked at it yet, but here is the old thread... http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=550538&show_all=1 - ( New Window )


some comical stuff on this old thread:

*Now that's more like it! - Keith

*nice! JPP is a true Giant. I hope he doesn't take it easy after getting paid, though. - SHO'NUFF (comical but prescient)

*Excellent news. He's worth it. Add Reddick in the draft and the defense gives us a good shot at a SB. - KWALL2

*maybe he is ready to finally become team CAPTAIN - Spike

*This was a 11-5 team that has added a big productive WR (team need), a blocking TE (team need), a G/T (team need), hasn't lost anyone of any signifance (Hankins still in limbo) and the draft is still yet to come. Seems a strange time to be killing the GM, though I'm not surprised that you continue to do so. You've made your mind up. Reese sucks. Nothing will ever change your mind so you will continue to litter every single thread with your agenda. Lucky us! - BigBlueShock

*"Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god." AND "This roster, IMO, is the best its been since the GMEN of the mid to late 80s. And IMO Reese is one of the best if not the very best GM in all of football, at least as of lately."
- est1986 (congrats, you have 2)

most accurate: That Limerick Guy:

*WAAAY to much
but hopefully it is front loaded. Pay him now and in 18 months when we all realize what a disaster it was to give the following player 40 million guaranteed:
1. A man with 7 fingers
2. With proven immaturity issues (Prince in Tub/Fireworks)
3. And motivation issues (came to camp looking like Kevin James one year)
4. And injury concerns (Bad back/surgery and dinged all the time)

We can cut bait and move on without really crippling us in 2 years.

Question:

Whatever happened to dr. kenneth??
RE: RE: I think DG is doing good things, things that needed to be done, but:  
Victor in CT : 3/22/2018 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13880588 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13880565 Victor in CT said:


Quote:



* while not the sole reason, JPP yucking it up during Eli's worst day as a Giant was a bad look, and enhanced his rep as being less than a team leader. I think losing the contract was the prime driver. Getting the extra 3rd rounder made it a no brainer.




Had this been JPP's response during "Eli's worst day as a Giant",


this is still a trade they had to make. He has no natural fit in the new defense. They get out from his contract with Beckham/Collins extensions looming and they get a valuable day 2 pick in addition. Bringing up the Eli thing is just pure nonsense and typical of Pat Leonard stupidity.


You obviously have issues with reading comprehension and JPP worship. You can take poster off the ceiling over your bed now. Think about taking the Shockey one down too. Jeez. You take a reasonable analysis and turn into to more whiny bullshit. Do you really think that was a good look given the circumstances? Are you saying that from what i wrote that I think that is why they traded him?
I was ok with him being resigned...  
BillKo : 3/22/2018 3:04 pm : link
...because he played really well in 2016. I wanted to see him progress, or at least maintain that level.

JPP is a solid player.....but we haven't seen the improvement.

In fact, his entire career has been like that. He was a very good rookie then impact player in 2011. But disappeared for large stretches after that- meaning he wasn't making big plays - but rather being a solid DE.

We are paying him to make big plays. He doesn't provide that.

Third round pick and cap savings - the way I think I'm reading this - is welcomed at this point.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 3:11 pm : link
Re-frame it this way.

If we had signed JPP to a 2-year deal with only 6M guaranteed total, and where his cap hit would only take up roughly 6% and 4% of our cap respectively in 2016 and 2017, and then his contract expired, he got a new deal from TB, and we received a 3rd rd pick as compensation, would anyone have looked at it as a bad signing relative to the production?

He was clearly underwhelming given the nature of the full contract - but forget the full contract. If he gave us what he did and it was just a 2 year deal where we only paid him what he made in those 2 years, I think the perception of the signing would be quite different and probably looked at much more favorably.
RE: .  
WillVAB : 3/22/2018 3:12 pm : link
In comment 13880336 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
JPP is a good player that we were paying like a great player.

It is what it is - he's gone, we're out of the contract, and we got an extra 3rd rd pick out of it to help with the rebuild process.

Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.


I agree, but his money couldve been used to bolster an OL spot in FA that year. Some quality FA OL were on the market.

The Giants were in a tough spot. They had to pay in FA because the drafts had been so shitty and there was no one promising on the depth chart behind JPP.
Makes sense for both  
bc4life : 3/22/2018 3:15 pm : link
JPP may do better in Tampa with reduced reps.


Basically, we traded him for a 3rd rounder. Now have 6 draft picks, 2 in 3rd round.

Don't know if this means they take Chubb or not. I'd be okay with Chubb at # 2. You get cute, he may not be around later.

Still everything dependent on if they think QB is worth the # 2.
RE: .  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13880682 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Re-frame it this way.

If we had signed JPP to a 2-year deal with only 6M guaranteed total, and where his cap hit would only take up roughly 6% and 4% of our cap respectively in 2016 and 2017, and then his contract expired, he got a new deal from TB, and we received a 3rd rd pick as compensation, would anyone have looked at it as a bad signing relative to the production?

He was clearly underwhelming given the nature of the full contract - but forget the full contract. If he gave us what he did and it was just a 2 year deal where we only paid him what he made in those 2 years, I think the perception of the signing would be quite different and probably looked at much more favorably.


But we didn't.

We'll probably never know what moves we didn't make because we thought we were set at DE. Maybe we make a push for Calais Campbell (a guy actually worth the money he's getting). Maybe we spend it elsewhere. Maybe we draft differently.

What you call a reframe, I'd call a rationalization. But whatever you want to call it, the team has been shit and the locker room poisonous, and JPP had his role in both.

Good riddance.



WillVAB  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 3:19 pm : link
Quote:
They had to pay in FA because the drafts had been so shitty and there was no one promising on the depth chart behind JPP.


You never HAVE to pay, and you certainly never have to overpay.

It's worth remembering that the best football the defense played in 2016 came AFTER JPP was hurt and Okwara took his place. I got destroyed for saying that in spring 2017, but it's an absolute fact.
JPP  
mattyblue : 3/22/2018 3:21 pm : link
had a couple of great years but then has been mediocre for quite awhile. I think its a good trade. The Giants need to retool in many areas. We have. New style defense coming in, whether or not we go to 3-4. We also were 3-13 and possibly the worst team in football last year. Best of luck JPP
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13880701 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13880682 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Re-frame it this way.

If we had signed JPP to a 2-year deal with only 6M guaranteed total, and where his cap hit would only take up roughly 6% and 4% of our cap respectively in 2016 and 2017, and then his contract expired, he got a new deal from TB, and we received a 3rd rd pick as compensation, would anyone have looked at it as a bad signing relative to the production?

He was clearly underwhelming given the nature of the full contract - but forget the full contract. If he gave us what he did and it was just a 2 year deal where we only paid him what he made in those 2 years, I think the perception of the signing would be quite different and probably looked at much more favorably.



But we didn't.

We'll probably never know what moves we didn't make because we thought we were set at DE. Maybe we make a push for Calais Campbell (a guy actually worth the money he's getting). Maybe we spend it elsewhere. Maybe we draft differently.

What you call a reframe, I'd call a rationalization. But whatever you want to call it, the team has been shit and the locker room poisonous, and JPP had his role in both.

Good riddance.




Eh, he also had a role on an 11 win team just one season ago.

The guy gets talked about like he contributed nothing.

Inconsistent? Yes. Questionable effort at times? Yes. Injuries taking a toll? Yep.

But it wasn't all bad.

Reality is that we only paid him for 2 years - the two with the lowest cap figures and gtd money. And the production we got relative to that cost was actually fair.

I'm happy we made this deal - we got an asset out of it and don't have to pay him the heavy sum years where he's not likely to improve.

Bottom line is that no matter how much you loved or hated the deal at the time, it didn't work out terribly when all was said and done.

Sure, we could have pursued someone else - but a guy like Campbell got a pretty hefty deal. After what we gave Vernon/Jenkins/Harrison, I'm not sure we ever would have added Campbell to that mix even without JPP.
arc  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 3:29 pm : link
Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't have. We'll never know, because JPP was the guy we hitched the wagon to.

And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.

Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.
Pretty awful article by Serby at the Post.  
manh george : 3/22/2018 3:30 pm : link
Despite acting like someone with a 75 IQ and blowing off half a hand, JPP remained a courageous player who came somewhat close to earning the huge contract the Giants were generous and stupid enough to give him subsequently. He showed us that he was passionate enough to sometimes play beyond his desire to understand the game and up to his athleticism.

On the other hand (the healthy one), JPP rarely came off the ground to make plays after being blocked post-July 4th the way he did before, even if he got a decent number of sacks.

I'd give Serby the finger, but unlike JPP, I am careful to keep mine. The theme of JPP as a great warrior with a purple heart just sucks.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: arc  
arcarsenal : 3/22/2018 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13880747 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't have. We'll never know, because JPP was the guy we hitched the wagon to.

And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.

Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.


I will say that so far, I like where we're going.

But yes, we still have a lot of work to do - so, hopefully that means we'll see more being done in the coming weeks.
RE: RE: RE: I think DG is doing good things, things that needed to be done, but:  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/22/2018 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13880637 Victor in CT said:
Quote:


You obviously have issues with reading comprehension and JPP worship. You can take poster off the ceiling over your bed now. Think about taking the Shockey one down too. Jeez. You take a reasonable analysis and turn into to more whiny bullshit. Do you really think that was a good look given the circumstances? Are you saying that from what i wrote that I think that is why they traded him?


Ummm... what? There's literally nothing reasonable or intelligent about bringing up that incident in what is supposed to be an analysis of this trade. Pat Leonard did that and that's why I called him a moron. JPP worship? What on GOD's green Earth are you talking about?

Pat Leonard himself says in the article, "Maybe it's unrelated, but..." Pat Leonard is the King of bringing up unrelated bullshit. For example, Odell's boat trip doesn't have to be brought up every time they lose a game. Yet, Leonard has managed to do that about 80% of the time since the boat trip. Why? Because he's a moron.
RE: arc  
2cents : 3/22/2018 3:47 pm : link
In comment 13880747 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't have. We'll never know, because JPP was the guy we hitched the wagon to.

And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.

Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.


arc, as one of the highest paid and longest tenured member of that defense wouldnt you say JPP should take more of the blame for the disfunction lack of effort? He is supposed to be the guy leading the charge and it just never seemed to be the case.

I may be putting blind faith in DG but I would venture a guess that both JPP and DRC were targeted as the source of negative influences in the locker room. What additional cuts are you hoping for, I cant pick out anyone else on the D would still be on the chopping block besides Eli Apple.
I havent seen this commented on although I am sure it has to have been  
bhill410 : 3/22/2018 3:48 pm : link
so I apologize for missing this. But what are the cap implications for this year? Since his 20 million dollar signing bonus is accelarated to this year, am I right in thinking he is still about a 15 million dollar cap hit this year? So only a couple of million in savings?
RE: RE: arc  
2cents : 3/22/2018 3:49 pm : link
In comment 13880815 2cents said:
Quote:
In comment 13880747 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't have. We'll never know, because JPP was the guy we hitched the wagon to.

And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.

Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.



arc, as one of the highest paid and longest tenured member of that defense wouldnt you say JPP should take more of the blame for the disfunction lack of effort? He is supposed to be the guy leading the charge and it just never seemed to be the case.

I may be putting blind faith in DG but I would venture a guess that both JPP and DRC were targeted as the source of negative influences in the locker room. What additional cuts are you hoping for, I cant pick out anyone else on the D would still be on the chopping block besides Eli Apple.


sorry arc, that was responding to terps.
Too bad, too sad  
TMS : 3/22/2018 3:51 pm : link
Had the potential to be very special. All the natural talent in the world . Thought he was the next great DE. Good luck, you had us all up on our feet many times.
2cents  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 3:52 pm : link
This will probably have to wait a year, but whenever Vernon, Jenkins, and Apple go that will be fine with me. Actually, the sooner we can move on from the entire 2017 team the better.
RE: I havent seen this commented on although I am sure it has to have been  
ryanmkeane : 3/22/2018 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13880820 bhill410 said:
Quote:
so I apologize for missing this. But what are the cap implications for this year? Since his 20 million dollar signing bonus is accelarated to this year, am I right in thinking he is still about a 15 million dollar cap hit this year? So only a couple of million in savings?

it's 2.5 in savings this year, 19.5 in 2019 and 17.5 in 2020
2 of those are B to B+ players  
bc4life : 3/22/2018 3:58 pm : link
Giants are smart enough to know that you don't just discard talented players. Jury still out on Apple - he can turn it aournd, it's up to him and how he's handled.
RE: 2 of those are B to B+ players  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 4:01 pm : link
In comment 13880851 bc4life said:
Quote:
Giants are smart enough to know that you don't just discard talented players. Jury still out on Apple - he can turn it aournd, it's up to him and how he's handled.


Putting faith in guys to "turn it around" (Apple) or to be something they've never been (Vernon) is part of the reason this team sucks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think DG is doing good things, things that needed to be done, but:  
Victor in CT : 3/22/2018 4:03 pm : link
In comment 13880812 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13880637 Victor in CT said:


Quote:




You obviously have issues with reading comprehension and JPP worship. You can take poster off the ceiling over your bed now. Think about taking the Shockey one down too. Jeez. You take a reasonable analysis and turn into to more whiny bullshit. Do you really think that was a good look given the circumstances? Are you saying that from what i wrote that I think that is why they traded him?



Ummm... what? There's literally nothing reasonable or intelligent about bringing up that incident in what is supposed to be an analysis of this trade. Pat Leonard did that and that's why I called him a moron. JPP worship? What on GOD's green Earth are you talking about?

Pat Leonard himself says in the article, "Maybe it's unrelated, but..." Pat Leonard is the King of bringing up unrelated bullshit. For example, Odell's boat trip doesn't have to be brought up every time they lose a game. Yet, Leonard has managed to do that about 80% of the time since the boat trip. Why? Because he's a moron.


See this is where reading skills come in. You're responding to Leonard, not me. I'm not defending Leonard, nor do I like Leonard, nor did I say that incident is why they traded JPP. What part didn't you get?
Vernon is a B-B+ player  
bc4life : 3/22/2018 4:11 pm : link
who has had some injuries and is playing too many reps. Apple is in his 3rd year, had a decent rookie season. Bad year last year. Knew he was going to take some development. To say he hasn't shown anything is simply inaccurate.
Vernon is being paid like an A+ player  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 4:17 pm : link
And while I know there are people here that give me a hard time and say the salary cap doesn't matter, I would point out that we have $15 million in dead salary cap space that won't be suiting up in 2018 because we made the same mistake with JPP.
Agree about the pay issue  
bc4life : 3/22/2018 4:22 pm : link
Seemed high when we first signed him.
Agree on the talent/salary  
TMS : 3/22/2018 4:36 pm : link
evaluation, but we have a new sheriff in town now. Things will be changing fast, Abrams is the best in the business. IF the owners let them do their jobs
Good  
mdc1 : 3/22/2018 4:37 pm : link
hard to play with one hand.
Vernon  
Mr. Nickels : 3/22/2018 4:38 pm : link
should be gone after this year
RE: RobCarpenter  
RobCarpenter : 3/22/2018 4:42 pm : link
In comment 13880402 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Sure he was the safe choice. Mara is comfortable with him. He stuck with Eli.

Ross was tied to Reese. He was as good as gone. What will be more telling is if Gettleman fires scouts after the draft.

Hire Shurmur? Shurmur himself was the safe choice.

Not sure how signing Solder isn't "safe"... I would argue the opposite. It would have more risky to bite the bullet and rebuild at the position with a rookie.

Part ways with Pugh and Richburg? Not sure how this is indicative of either. These two got paid $90 million by other teams.

The CBs he signed are not good defensive backs. Jonathan Stewart was likely overpaid and a questionable move.

Right now, Gettleman is cleaning up the mess Ross and Reese left - but anyone would have done that.

Thus far, the biggest culture shock has been the two trades - the one for Ogletree and the trade away of JPP.


The DBs are decent depth, he didn't sign them to be starters.

Cleaning up the mess is easier said then done.
There's nothing that can be done about such contracts now.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 4:45 pm : link
Vernon's contract is structured such that they can get out of it next year. In the mean time they can see what he does as a rush LB with a different coach and scheme. It's not about 2018 anyway.
RE: Vernon  
mdc1 : 3/22/2018 4:47 pm : link
In comment 13880980 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
should be gone after this year


probably, he seems like a time card puncher. For his pay he should be making play after play and VERY disruptive. Another Reese screw up, but I guess he had to do something to raise the general level of play on the defense.
RE: RE: 2 of those are B to B+ players  
RobCarpenter : 3/22/2018 4:56 pm : link
In comment 13880864 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13880851 bc4life said:


Quote:


Giants are smart enough to know that you don't just discard talented players. Jury still out on Apple - he can turn it aournd, it's up to him and how he's handled.



Putting faith in guys to "turn it around" (Apple) or to be something they've never been (Vernon) is part of the reason this team sucks.


Vernon has to prove his value in 2018 or he's gone after this season. Same with Apple. And at Vernon's contract he may be gone anyway. The key difference is now the GM is willing to cut dead weight.

Good riddance, he was stealing money based on his play  
Jimmy Googs : 3/22/2018 5:11 pm : link
JPP spent more time at the LOS than Snacks.

Lets wrap up the trade of Eli and keep this momentum going...
JPP was just under performing...  
EricJ : 3/22/2018 5:17 pm : link
a nice guy who did something stupid and basically ruined his career. Reese was the moron who signed him to that contract.

I will always remember that Dallas game..
I don't understand this trade . . .  
EliManning : 3/22/2018 5:47 pm : link
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?

Love the guy for the super bowl season but  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/22/2018 5:50 pm : link
He always seemed to be a guy that got up for the payday then mailed it in. All I saw prior to his resigning the big contract was him posting videos how hard he was training etc. once he got paid you always saw him take some plays off put on weight etc... def not a guy that hates to lose it seems and Im sure gettleman noticed
RE: I don't understand this trade . . .  
Jimmy Googs : 3/22/2018 5:52 pm : link
In comment 13881129 EliManning said:
Quote:
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?


Because sometimes you need to get a guy out of the building to really restructure the team.

You're next...

RE: I don't understand this trade . . .  
nygiants16 : 3/22/2018 5:56 pm : link
In comment 13881129 EliManning said:
Quote:
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?


So you would rather keep him than acquire a 3rd round pick? That makes zero sense..
RE: RE: I don't understand this trade . . .  
EliManning : 3/22/2018 5:58 pm : link
In comment 13881136 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13881129 EliManning said:


Quote:


Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?




Because sometimes you need to get a guy out of the building to really restructure the team.

You're next...


Ah, another Eli Hater. Cute.

Bump for a real answer. They could have cut JPP for free next year.
RE: RE: I don't understand this trade . . .  
EliManning : 3/22/2018 5:59 pm : link
In comment 13881142 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13881129 EliManning said:


Quote:


Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?




So you would rather keep him than acquire a 3rd round pick? That makes zero sense..


One year of JPP v. a third round pick. If Gettleman is trying to win now, I would rather have JPP.
RE: I don't understand this trade . . .  
Jim in Fairfax : 3/22/2018 6:08 pm : link
In comment 13881129 EliManning said:
Quote:
Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?

Thats incorrect. He received a $20M signing bonus which is prorated against the cap over 4 years - $5M per year. If you released him next year, youd end up with $10M in dead money on next years cap. Or more depending on what date they released him on.
RE: RE: I don't understand this trade . . .  
EliManning : 3/22/2018 6:12 pm : link
In comment 13881166 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 13881129 EliManning said:


Quote:


Giants only save 2.5M and get a third rounder. Why not just keep JPP for 2018 and cut him in 2019. In 2019, my understanding is that he isn't due any guaranteed money and we could cup bait without any cap hit / dead cap? Is that correct?



Thats incorrect. He received a $20M signing bonus which is prorated against the cap over 4 years - $5M per year. If you released him next year, youd end up with $10M in dead money on next years cap. Or more depending on what date they released him on.


Wonderful. Thank you. That is what I was looking for. I like the trade.
JPP  
Dragon : 3/22/2018 6:13 pm : link
Was a great fit for a three four end but he just stopped producing with any kind of consistency. A healthy and productive JPP could play the run and passing game extremely well in 3-4. To get out of that contract and gain a third round pick grand theft Ive said it for sometime him and OV both needed to be traded now along with Collins who should bring the most value back.

Chubb is also not a fit for a three four end same with OV thats too much weight advantage for the OL cant see them lasting a full season against those odds. I dont see OV being a good fit at OLB or ISLB he has only played DE his entire NFL career hard to change position at this point. Can you really afford to pay his salary to just a pass rush DE specialist or terrible coverage OLB? Look OV appears to have more trade value than JPP but his salary is a bit higher same third or second round offer hurry to the fax machine.

As for Collins he might fit the OLB position but he is highly overrated as a safety his coverage skills are terrible. Right now he should bring a second or third round pick with future considerations. Your getting away from a big time contract battle in the near future for limited skills but big reputation. If I did not foresee the contract problems coming I could even say lets try to see if he will not act greedy but thats a foolish wish just look at the contracts given in FA. This is the time to clean house in a house which needs cleaning not patching.

RE: JPP  
EliManning : 3/22/2018 6:18 pm : link
In comment 13881176 Dragon said:
Quote:
Was a great fit for a three four end but he just stopped producing with any kind of consistency. A healthy and productive JPP could play the run and passing game extremely well in 3-4. To get out of that contract and gain a third round pick grand theft Ive said it for sometime him and OV both needed to be traded now along with Collins who should bring the most value back.

Chubb is also not a fit for a three four end same with OV thats too much weight advantage for the OL cant see them lasting a full season against those odds. I dont see OV being a good fit at OLB or ISLB he has only played DE his entire NFL career hard to change position at this point. Can you really afford to pay his salary to just a pass rush DE specialist or terrible coverage OLB? Look OV appears to have more trade value than JPP but his salary is a bit higher same third or second round offer hurry to the fax machine.

As for Collins he might fit the OLB position but he is highly overrated as a safety his coverage skills are terrible. Right now he should bring a second or third round pick with future considerations. Your getting away from a big time contract battle in the near future for limited skills but big reputation. If I did not foresee the contract problems coming I could even say lets try to see if he will not act greedy but thats a foolish wish just look at the contracts given in FA. This is the time to clean house in a house which needs cleaning not patching.


Stopped reading at "trade collins"
First off  
Breeze_94 : 3/22/2018 6:34 pm : link
thank you to JPP. 8 years as a Giant. Had some ups and downs, but mostly ups. Came into the league and dominated in year 2. I thought he should've won DPOY in 2011. Will never forget that game in Dallas where he saved the season, which ended with a SB trophy, a run that JPP was a HUGE part of. He continued to be a good all around DE, and then there was the July 4th accident, but he bounced back from that and earned another contract. I believe he is the only Reese first rounder to earn a 2nd contract with the team to this date. While he never lived up to the hype of 2011, he has been a good player for us. Sure, the contract was bloated but when all is said and done, JPP was a true Giant.

On the other side of things- GREAT trade. Clears a bit of cap space, gets the deal off the books next year as well. And we get an EARLY 3rd rounder for a 29 year old DE with a huge contract and mediocre production. JPP wasn't going to fit in this 3-4, glad we got something for him- THRILLED that it was a 3rd rounder.
RE: So all we are netting out of this is a 3rd round pick?  
baadbill : 3/22/2018 6:45 pm : link
In comment 13879414 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
?


No, less than that. We're giving them our 4th round spot and moving down to theirs.
I was curious, so I went to Bucs forum to see how they felt about the  
Ira : 3/22/2018 6:50 pm : link
trade. They almost all love it. So maybe it helps both teams.
RE: Love the guy for the super bowl season but  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 6:56 pm : link
In comment 13881134 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
He always seemed to be a guy that got up for the payday then mailed it in. All I saw prior to his resigning the big contract was him posting videos how hard he was training etc. once he got paid you always saw him take some plays off put on weight etc... def not a guy that hates to lose it seems and Im sure gettleman noticed


He got paid, then played 91% of all defensive snaps, more than all but a fraction of all defensive linemen.

This JPP = lazy nonsense is more infectious than swine flu
He was the JPP  
Pete in MD : 3/22/2018 8:04 pm : link
of JPP's.
Coming home from work  
BIGbluegermany : 3/22/2018 8:15 pm : link
and then WOW,I've never believed that the giants would trade him.
Reese  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 3/22/2018 8:23 pm : link
was cashing checks to save his job in the short term.
A 3rd for JPP is great, but no QB at  
RDJR : 3/22/2018 8:58 pm : link
2 means quarterback hell in two seasons.
RE: JPP  
Mark C : 3/22/2018 9:20 pm : link
In comment 13881176 Dragon said:
Quote:
Was a great fit for a three four end but he just stopped producing with any kind of consistency. A healthy and productive JPP could play the run and passing game extremely well in 3-4. To get out of that contract and gain a third round pick grand theft Ive said it for sometime him and OV both needed to be traded now along with Collins who should bring the most value back.

Chubb is also not a fit for a three four end same with OV thats too much weight advantage for the OL cant see them lasting a full season against those odds. I dont see OV being a good fit at OLB or ISLB he has only played DE his entire NFL career hard to change position at this point. Can you really afford to pay his salary to just a pass rush DE specialist or terrible coverage OLB? Look OV appears to have more trade value than JPP but his salary is a bit higher same third or second round offer hurry to the fax machine.

As for Collins he might fit the OLB position but he is highly overrated as a safety his coverage skills are terrible. Right now he should bring a second or third round pick with future considerations. Your getting away from a big time contract battle in the near future for limited skills but big reputation. If I did not foresee the contract problems coming I could even say lets try to see if he will not act greedy but thats a foolish wish just look at the contracts given in FA. This is the time to clean house in a house which needs cleaning not patching.


If you think Collins is going to be traded, you are truly delusional.
RE: Vernon  
DavidinBMNY : 3/22/2018 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13880980 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
should be gone after this year


His dead money is only $6mm next year. Easily a cut candidate getting twice as much back for that.

That said I think this defense could be really good for him. I'm hoping he has a bounce back year. I like Vernon.
RE: There's nothing that can be done about such contracts now.  
DavidinBMNY : 3/22/2018 9:27 pm : link
In comment 13880996 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Vernon's contract is structured such that they can get out of it next year. In the mean time they can see what he does as a rush LB with a different coach and scheme. It's not about 2018 anyway.
+1
JPP hasn't been the same since his back injury.  
NyquistX3 : 3/22/2018 10:07 pm : link
Thanks for the memories, but I'm ready to move on.
RE: WillVAB  
WillVAB : 3/22/2018 10:50 pm : link
In comment 13880710 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Quote:


They had to pay in FA because the drafts had been so shitty and there was no one promising on the depth chart behind JPP.



You never HAVE to pay, and you certainly never have to overpay.

It's worth remembering that the best football the defense played in 2016 came AFTER JPP was hurt and Okwara took his place. I got destroyed for saying that in spring 2017, but it's an absolute fact.


The Giants were coming off a year where the defense was historically bad. The Giants had money to spend. Reese used it to buy the best defensive talent on the market at impact positions.

It was a bad move, but I see why Reese did it. Peoples jobs are on the line. Short-sighted and panic decisions happen.

The JPP contract was more of a symptom than the actual disease. The core issue from Reeses tenure was poor drafting and poor roster construction. You cant just target WRs and CBs with your premium picks. You cant just hit on one or two guys per draft. You cant just let the talent slowly erode in the trenches. Thats whats happened since the last SB and thats why the results have been dogshit.
RE: RE: 2 of those are B to B+ players  
WillVAB : 3/22/2018 10:57 pm : link
In comment 13880864 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13880851 bc4life said:


Quote:


Giants are smart enough to know that you don't just discard talented players. Jury still out on Apple - he can turn it aournd, it's up to him and how he's handled.



Putting faith in guys to "turn it around" (Apple) or to be something they've never been (Vernon) is part of the reason this team sucks.


Vernon was an all-pro and Jenkins was a top 3 corner in 16. I think its fair to give them a pass for last years shit show. If they suck this year then make a decision.

Youve said Von Miller is worth his contract. Youd be singing the same tune about him based on his 17 numbers if you held him to the same standard.
Kind of silly to close the book on a second year player.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2018 11:35 pm : link
Especially one who showed ability as a rookie.

By similar logic the Rams should've cut jared goff based on how terrifying he played as a rookie. Why have faith that he can turn it around?

You can't be furious about the team spending money in free agency and also toss out cost controlled players like used tissues. If what you claim to want is to build through the draft, you'd better be prepared to deal with developmental stumbles that can still pan out and also accept failure as a possible outcome.
.  
Go Terps : 3/22/2018 11:54 pm : link
What's silly is to abide a locker room full of poisonous personalities. It's also silly that everyone is so happy to see Reese gone but at the same time gives the fruit of his poor work the benefit of the doubt.

None of these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not a single one.
RE: .  
WillVAB : 3/23/2018 12:36 am : link
In comment 13881619 Go Terps said:
Quote:
What's silly is to abide a locker room full of poisonous personalities. It's also silly that everyone is so happy to see Reese gone but at the same time gives the fruit of his poor work the benefit of the doubt.

None of these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not a single one.


Denver had a pretty shitty year too and Von Miller looked pretty pedestrian vs the Giants shitty OL. Should Denver dump him too?

People get it. Changes needed to be made and are being made but it doesnt make sense to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Baby with the bath water?  
Go Terps : 3/23/2018 12:47 am : link
Have you been watching this team? The entire tub needs to go.

I don't know why you keep bringing up Von Miller. He isn't on this team and he's significantly better than any player on our roster at any position.
This was not just a great trade  
montanagiant : 3/23/2018 2:05 am : link
This would have been fabulous if we got a 7th out of it let alone a 3rd.
I wish JPP nothing but the best (Except when he plays against the Giants) but there was no way he was worth anywhere close to his contract.

Yet another example of the fiasco known as Reese
I  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 3:35 am : link
am certain this has been discussed here but could someone tell me how much cap relief and dead money that provides and subtracts?
Please  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 3:38 am : link
disregard I am a moron its right above me.
Absolutely  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 3:40 am : link
brilliant trade! He was not worth the contract and to get 3 and a 4th for him? Unreal!
Swap  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 3:41 am : link
I meant.
Reese  
Dragon : 3/23/2018 5:11 am : link
Was the GM as DG is today the real problems lies in FA 99% of us Happy to see JPP gone and receive a 3rd round pick. Why is that maybe 60/40 split on happiness when he resigned if he walked away at that point you could have gotten the same value a year later without the big contract little return.

Solder is DGs gamble now the NFC East is a different world then he has been used to these teams hate each other not the post Cold War division dominated by NE. Today an 88/12% split of happy fans to see him signed will this prove to be a good thing or just another fantasy. He is a good player on the backside of his career who we elevated to one of the best LT in the game payment wise we all have to HOPE once again that works out positively for the team.

This is a process many teams are facing by using FA as a method to supposedly change your talent level overnight. This is a process that has a less than 20% happy ending for us and most teams yet we are still playing Russian roulette with it.





Why trade JPP now?  
JonC : 3/23/2018 8:51 am : link
It's about changing the culture of the locker room, it's time for big changes in there.
RE: Baby with the bath water?  
WillVAB : 3/23/2018 9:05 am : link
In comment 13881642 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Have you been watching this team? The entire tub needs to go.

I don't know why you keep bringing up Von Miller. He isn't on this team and he's significantly better than any player on our roster at any position.


The point is you dont dump guys under 30 who are a season removed from all-pro years.

Now Apple/Flowers? No problem. I suspect their time here is running out.
RE: .  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/23/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 13881619 Go Terps said:
Quote:
What's silly is to abide a locker room full of poisonous personalities. It's also silly that everyone is so happy to see Reese gone but at the same time gives the fruit of his poor work the benefit of the doubt.

None of these guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not a single one.


Spent a lot of time getting to know these personalities, have you? And that's not to absolve anyone of the things we do know happened. I'm not interesting in talking about assumed offenses.

And to be quite frank, you don't really qualify for benefit of the doubt either. You've demonstrated to be prone to make sweeping judgements based on emotional swings. You'd be the GM you hate.
I've also demonstrated being right about how things were going to go  
Go Terps : 3/23/2018 10:58 am : link
.
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