Another blockbuster trade: Giants trading DE Jason Pierre-Paul and a 2018 fourth-round pick to Buccaneers for a 2018 third-round pick and a fourth-round pick, source tells ESPN. Per Schefter
...a Top 70 pick and moving from the back of Round 4(#140) to #108 is something. It's especially something if the new regime does a better job drafting in the critical middle area of the Draft.
IF he has a stellar year, or two, it probably would chalk up to a bad trade for us. History doesn't lend one to believe he's got a stellar year left in him. he'd have been worth it to keep for the mil or two we gained on the cap, but then you're taking a cap hit next year to get rid of him.
Bottom line, he duped us and laughed all the way to the bank. That was a horrible contract and he put in a horrible effort after he signed it. The downside is that he'll likely put in something of an effort this year - it's his MO: do just enough to tantalize a team into keeping him/signing him. Now that the Bucs can dump him without an amortized signing bonus to accelerate, he'll get his guar
My guess is CLE. Bet they were banking on scooping up Chubb at #4. Now we increased potential bidders for our #2 pick as the key slot for not only QB but also Chubb (with supposed large drop off in talent to next best DE). I could support the move on just locker room and future salary cap improvement, by slapping the smug off CLE GM Dorsey is a really solid plus for me.
Totally agree. I think they really wanted Chubb and not Barkley at 4 all along.
I can see Dorsey getting antsy about the Giants taking Chubb and offer up some picks to swap the #4 for the #2. DG comes out great with his guy still at 4 (assuming he doesn't want a QB at 2) and some picks taboot!
Not only do they move on from JPP, who has never lived up to the potential he flashed in 2011 and is not well suited to a 3-4 defense, but they get the 69th pic in the draft, free up $2.5MM and get out from that abominable contract that never should have been granted to begin with. AND Gettleman further clouds the Giants' draft intentions thereby again making the second pick more valuable to more teams... Browns can no longer bank on Chubb being there at four. So if this somehow enables us to trade back to four and still get Barkley PLUS a haul of pics, Gettleman will be hailed a genius...
had we kept JPP:
11.25 Salary
5 mil amortized signing bonus
1 mil roster bonus
.25 workout bonus
=
17.5 mil
we traded him, so we're on the hook for 5 mil amortized bonus X 3 years left on the contract = 15 mil. That's now the cap hit (unless we spread it over 2 years).
Sure he was the safe choice. Mara is comfortable with him. He stuck with Eli.
Ross was tied to Reese. He was as good as gone. What will be more telling is if Gettleman fires scouts after the draft.
Hire Shurmur? Shurmur himself was the safe choice.
Not sure how signing Solder isn't "safe"... I would argue the opposite. It would have more risky to bite the bullet and rebuild at the position with a rookie.
Part ways with Pugh and Richburg? Not sure how this is indicative of either. These two got paid $90 million by other teams.
The CBs he signed are not good defensive backs. Jonathan Stewart was likely overpaid and a questionable move.
Right now, Gettleman is cleaning up the mess Ross and Reese left - but anyone would have done that.
Thus far, the biggest culture shock has been the two trades - the one for Ogletree and the trade away of JPP.
but yes, some were on his case earlier than others. I thought the franchise tag should've been pulled the minute he refused to see Ronnie Barnes down in Florida. Shocked they held onto him after that, and even more shocked they doubled down with a new contract.
Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.
When you string enough rationalizations like this one together, it actually does end up crippling the franchise.
I'm not even sure what this means, really.
He played here for two years with cap hits under 10M - his cap hit last year was barely even over 7M.
So, we got two okay years from him before his cap hit ballooned and then we dealt him for an asset.
Zero harm done here.
arc,
I tend to agree with you that i dont think it crippled the organization but i cannot come around to say zero harm done. There is no arguing that our team would be much better off today and tomorrow if we were using that $15.5 mil on starting players (left side of OL of Sodler AND Norwell would be a thing of beauty).
in the end though, what's done is done and i dont think this is setting us back much. Undoubtedly, we should add it to the list of Reese's bad moves.
has always been a guy who relied too much on his athletic freakiness to succeed in the NFL. I never thought he really applied himself to learning the DE position completely. He was great his first year, because people didn't know what to expect. Once they knew, he regressed to being "pretty good." Then he blew off his hand and started having other injuries, and he wasn't even that anymore. Certainly not worth the 2nd contract he signed.
Kemoko Turay DE Rutgers 6' 5" 252 scholor athlete Â
Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.
When you string enough rationalizations like this one together, it actually does end up crippling the franchise.
I'm not even sure what this means, really.
He played here for two years with cap hits under 10M - his cap hit last year was barely even over 7M.
So, we got two okay years from him before his cap hit ballooned and then we dealt him for an asset.
Zero harm done here.
arc,
I tend to agree with you that i dont think it crippled the organization but i cannot come around to say zero harm done. There is no arguing that our team would be much better off today and tomorrow if we were using that $15.5 mil on starting players (left side of OL of Sodler AND Norwell would be a thing of beauty).
in the end though, what's done is done and i dont think this is setting us back much. Undoubtedly, we should add it to the list of Reese's bad moves.
I think we had a price on Norwell and he simply chose JAX.
Even if we had more cap space, I don't think we were going to go above a certain offer. Our offer was competitive with theirs - he just wanted to play there instead. Nothing we could do about that.
At the end of the day, it is what it is. Maybe "no harm done" is being too generous - but this didn't wind up being nearly as problematic a signing as some thought it may be.
similar to what the Rams did. I would continue to trade down to acquire D-Line and O-Line to fit the scheme of the coaching staff. QB is not the priority this draft, acquiring talent through trade down from #2 is. This season they will battle on D and scuffle on Offense until the line begins to gel. In 2019 or 2020, acquire a QB as Eli is not getting benched in 2018.
RE: So I guess Bettcher isn't going to turn JPP into Chandler Jones Â
Who was under the impression that he was? Olivier Vernon was the player who was used in a 2 point stance this past season, like Chandler Jones. While this trade is shocking, JPP really didn't have a true fit in a 34 defense.
RE: RE: The commentary here is absolutely hilarious Â
I don't agree. I think opinions on JPP were pretty divided for a while, even before he blew up his hand. Don't you remember those KWALL-against-the-world wall of text posts where KWALL would extensively explain why anyone who didn't think JPP was an All-Pro was wrong, and how there would be about twenty people arguing with him?
I also don't think this trade necessarily means anything Â
Norwell would have been a nice get, but I'll take Omameh for the money he got all day.
Also, as you look to the next phase of roster construction (the draft) there are far more viable OG/C targets who can come in and start from day 1 via the draft (Nelson, Hernandez, Daniels, Ragnow, Wynn, Smith) than there are tackles who we can actually sleep at night knowing they have improved the blind side. Solder does that for us. I'm literally not sure if there were any other options who could have provided that level of comfort.
Wasn’t aware of this as I stopped reading/listening to media Â
“Plus, maybe it’s unrelated, but it must be said: Pierre-Paul, 29, also was yucking it up in the Giants’ locker room with some teammates on Nov. 28, not 10 feet away from Eli Manning as the quarterback’s eyes welled up with tears as he discussed his benching for that week’s game in Oakland.
It was an unforgettable scene, and as the Giants re-commit to Manning, they part ways with Pierre-Paul.”
the signing JPP argument is a proxy for the reality that Reese sucked Â
we all agree on the latter, no need to over-dramatize how bad JPP was. As he aged he got worse, like most players, but was still decent. Like he often did, Reese made the wrong decision to keep him long term vs. investing the funds elsewhere. Thankfully TB bailed us out and gave us a damn good pick for a declining player. Great job by Gettleman. As I said earlier in the thread his quote relayed by JPP rings true - this was an offer too good to pass up. Dalvin Tomlinson was picked at 55 last year. If we can get a day 1 contributor like him for a 29 year old JPP it will be a home run well worth the 1 time dead cap sacrifice.
I think JPP will play well for the Bucs this year tho Â
“Plus, maybe it’s unrelated, but it must be said: Pierre-Paul, 29, also was yucking it up in the Giants’ locker room with some teammates on Nov. 28, not 10 feet away from Eli Manning as the quarterback’s eyes welled up with tears as he discussed his benching for that week’s game in Oakland.
It was an unforgettable scene, and as the Giants re-commit to Manning, they part ways with Pierre-Paul.”
As always, Pat Leonard is a moron.
RE: RE: RE: The commentary here is absolutely hilarious Â
I don't agree. I think opinions on JPP were pretty divided for a while, even before he blew up his hand. Don't you remember those KWALL-against-the-world wall of text posts where KWALL would extensively explain why anyone who didn't think JPP was an All-Pro was wrong, and how there would be about twenty people arguing with him?
They were very divided.
The only revisionist history going on here is the notion that two people on this entire board were opposed to JPP. That's more ridiculous than anything else being said.
I was in favor of signing him. I thought he'd continue to improve another year removed from the hand incident and part of me was pulling for him as a person because it took a lot of hard work and dedication to get back onto the field when several football people were proclaiming that his career was over and that he'd never get back.
I'm also not averse to admitting when I'm wrong. In retrospect, we probably would have been better off not signing him to that contract. But at the end of the day, it didn't exactly change the fortunes of the franchise one way or another and his performance actually wasn't poor relative to his cap hits.
This was a great time to get out of it and we did.
To move up from 34 overall into the first round. By the value chart we could get as high as number 20 overall and I would love to have two picks in the top 20.
desperate signing by JR when they extended, just didnt make any sense other then, glad he is gone. Started his career with a bang playing behind some all time greats, but at as soon as he got his chance to be "THE GUY" it seemed to blow up in his face.. (Pun intended)
playing 90% of snaps looks alot different if you consider all the plays he disappears on and has zero impact. havent seen him make a big play or stop on 3rd down since 2011.
good riddance.
Well he made a lot. People underestimate how good he was because the sack numbers weren't there. But they don't take into account he was one of the more dominant run-defenders even in 2016 and 2017 he was a good player. Not a great player. He was really good in 2014 and 2012, and of course excellent in 2011. Just the inbetween seasons, the injuries, and the fireworks...left everyone wanting more.
IF he has a stellar year, or two, it probably would chalk up to a bad trade for us. History doesn't lend one to believe he's got a stellar year left in him. he'd have been worth it to keep for the mil or two we gained on the cap, but then you're taking a cap hit next year to get rid of him.
Bottom line, he duped us and laughed all the way to the bank. That was a horrible contract and he put in a horrible effort after he signed it. The downside is that he'll likely put in something of an effort this year - it's his MO: do just enough to tantalize a team into keeping him/signing him. Now that the Bucs can dump him without an amortized signing bonus to accelerate, he'll get his guar
From who? They didn't have any. And I'd hardly assume that they could have drafted a qualified replacement.
Totally agree. I think they really wanted Chubb and not Barkley at 4 all along.
I can see Dorsey getting antsy about the Giants taking Chubb and offer up some picks to swap the #4 for the #2. DG comes out great with his guy still at 4 (assuming he doesn't want a QB at 2) and some picks taboot!
Jim in Fairfax : 12:33 pm : link : reply
In comment 13880213 Doomster said:
Quote:
2.5M this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sigh.
JPP was going to be a $17.5M cap hit in 2018. Now he’s a $15M cap hit.
You do the math.
You are confusing Cap money with Dead money.......
Quote:
How about two years of pass rush?
From who? They didn't have any. And I'd hardly assume that they could have drafted a qualified replacement.
Maybe we sign someone else at another position, who knows?
But with the way it has worked out with JPP since the fireworks incident, I'd take the unknown over what we actually got.
15.5 sacks isn't exactly no pass rush.
The contract wound up not working out, but it's not like the guy was a complete zero.
It is what it is - he's gone, we're out of the contract, and we got an extra 3rd rd pick out of it to help with the rebuild process.
Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.
When you string enough rationalizations like this one together, it actually does end up crippling the franchise.
The Giants could have traded JPP for nothing and they'd be in a better place today than yesterday.
Delighted with this
He's back folks!!!!!!!
had we kept JPP:
11.25 Salary
5 mil amortized signing bonus
1 mil roster bonus
.25 workout bonus
=
17.5 mil
we traded him, so we're on the hook for 5 mil amortized bonus X 3 years left on the contract = 15 mil. That's now the cap hit (unless we spread it over 2 years).
17.5 - 15 = 2.5
Jim in Fairfax : 12:33 pm : link : reply
In comment 13880213 Doomster said:
Quote:
2.5M this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sigh.
JPP was going to be a $17.5M cap hit in 2018. Now he’s a $15M cap hit.
You do the math.
You are confusing Cap money with Dead money.......
Dead money IS cap money — it’s money against your cap for a departed player.
Pre trade they owed 17.5 against the cap for JPP.
Post trade they owe $15M in dead money against the cap.
Quote:
Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.
When you string enough rationalizations like this one together, it actually does end up crippling the franchise.
I'm not even sure what this means, really.
He played here for two years with cap hits under 10M - his cap hit last year was barely even over 7M.
So, we got two okay years from him before his cap hit ballooned and then we dealt him for an asset.
Zero harm done here.
Ross was tied to Reese. He was as good as gone. What will be more telling is if Gettleman fires scouts after the draft.
Hire Shurmur? Shurmur himself was the safe choice.
Not sure how signing Solder isn't "safe"... I would argue the opposite. It would have more risky to bite the bullet and rebuild at the position with a rookie.
Part ways with Pugh and Richburg? Not sure how this is indicative of either. These two got paid $90 million by other teams.
The CBs he signed are not good defensive backs. Jonathan Stewart was likely overpaid and a questionable move.
Right now, Gettleman is cleaning up the mess Ross and Reese left - but anyone would have done that.
Thus far, the biggest culture shock has been the two trades - the one for Ogletree and the trade away of JPP.
Another "give me credit" post.
Folks should be honest about this. He's right.
Quote:
Quote:
Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.
When you string enough rationalizations like this one together, it actually does end up crippling the franchise.
I'm not even sure what this means, really.
He played here for two years with cap hits under 10M - his cap hit last year was barely even over 7M.
So, we got two okay years from him before his cap hit ballooned and then we dealt him for an asset.
Zero harm done here.
arc,
I tend to agree with you that i dont think it crippled the organization but i cannot come around to say zero harm done. There is no arguing that our team would be much better off today and tomorrow if we were using that $15.5 mil on starting players (left side of OL of Sodler AND Norwell would be a thing of beauty).
in the end though, what's done is done and i dont think this is setting us back much. Undoubtedly, we should add it to the list of Reese's bad moves.
You still can't figure out why people can't stand you...
Every post is of the self-congratulatory variety.
"I was right!"
"I said this all along!"
"No one listened but I always knew it!"
No one cares.
I'd guess that more said nay than yea after that incident.
Quote:
In comment 13880343 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Quote:
Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.
When you string enough rationalizations like this one together, it actually does end up crippling the franchise.
I'm not even sure what this means, really.
He played here for two years with cap hits under 10M - his cap hit last year was barely even over 7M.
So, we got two okay years from him before his cap hit ballooned and then we dealt him for an asset.
Zero harm done here.
arc,
I tend to agree with you that i dont think it crippled the organization but i cannot come around to say zero harm done. There is no arguing that our team would be much better off today and tomorrow if we were using that $15.5 mil on starting players (left side of OL of Sodler AND Norwell would be a thing of beauty).
in the end though, what's done is done and i dont think this is setting us back much. Undoubtedly, we should add it to the list of Reese's bad moves.
I think we had a price on Norwell and he simply chose JAX.
Even if we had more cap space, I don't think we were going to go above a certain offer. Our offer was competitive with theirs - he just wanted to play there instead. Nothing we could do about that.
At the end of the day, it is what it is. Maybe "no harm done" is being too generous - but this didn't wind up being nearly as problematic a signing as some thought it may be.
Who was under the impression that he was? Olivier Vernon was the player who was used in a 2 point stance this past season, like Chandler Jones. While this trade is shocking, JPP really didn't have a true fit in a 34 defense.
Folks should be honest about this. He's right.
I don't agree. I think opinions on JPP were pretty divided for a while, even before he blew up his hand. Don't you remember those KWALL-against-the-world wall of text posts where KWALL would extensively explain why anyone who didn't think JPP was an All-Pro was wrong, and how there would be about twenty people arguing with him?
We will def be taking atleast 1 pass rusher with our first 4 picks in rounds 1-3
Norwell would have been a nice get, but I'll take Omameh for the money he got all day.
Also, as you look to the next phase of roster construction (the draft) there are far more viable OG/C targets who can come in and start from day 1 via the draft (Nelson, Hernandez, Daniels, Ragnow, Wynn, Smith) than there are tackles who we can actually sleep at night knowing they have improved the blind side. Solder does that for us. I'm literally not sure if there were any other options who could have provided that level of comfort.
It was an unforgettable scene, and as the Giants re-commit to Manning, they part ways with Pierre-Paul.”
He's got a lot of wear and tear for a 29 year old (knee, back, hand)
Quote:
“Plus, maybe it’s unrelated, but it must be said: Pierre-Paul, 29, also was yucking it up in the Giants’ locker room with some teammates on Nov. 28, not 10 feet away from Eli Manning as the quarterback’s eyes welled up with tears as he discussed his benching for that week’s game in Oakland.
It was an unforgettable scene, and as the Giants re-commit to Manning, they part ways with Pierre-Paul.”
As always, Pat Leonard is a moron.
Quote:
Folks should be honest about this. He's right.
I don't agree. I think opinions on JPP were pretty divided for a while, even before he blew up his hand. Don't you remember those KWALL-against-the-world wall of text posts where KWALL would extensively explain why anyone who didn't think JPP was an All-Pro was wrong, and how there would be about twenty people arguing with him?
They were very divided.
The only revisionist history going on here is the notion that two people on this entire board were opposed to JPP. That's more ridiculous than anything else being said.
I was in favor of signing him. I thought he'd continue to improve another year removed from the hand incident and part of me was pulling for him as a person because it took a lot of hard work and dedication to get back onto the field when several football people were proclaiming that his career was over and that he'd never get back.
I'm also not averse to admitting when I'm wrong. In retrospect, we probably would have been better off not signing him to that contract. But at the end of the day, it didn't exactly change the fortunes of the franchise one way or another and his performance actually wasn't poor relative to his cap hits.
This was a great time to get out of it and we did.
Whatever you think of him as a player, JPP was a clown.
Quote:
As always, Pat Leonard is a moron.
Whatever you think of him as a player, JPP was a clown.
I wish we had more clowns who were integral parts of Super Bowl Championship teams.
😂😂
I am convinced that you won’t be happy until we have a team full of John Tuttles.
playing 90% of snaps looks alot different if you consider all the plays he disappears on and has zero impact. havent seen him make a big play or stop on 3rd down since 2011.
good riddance.
Well he made a lot. People underestimate how good he was because the sack numbers weren't there. But they don't take into account he was one of the more dominant run-defenders even in 2016 and 2017 he was a good player. Not a great player. He was really good in 2014 and 2012, and of course excellent in 2011. Just the inbetween seasons, the injuries, and the fireworks...left everyone wanting more.