Another blockbuster trade: Giants trading DE Jason Pierre-Paul and a 2018 fourth-round pick to Buccaneers for a 2018 third-round pick and a fourth-round pick, source tells ESPN. Per Schefter
I'll be happy when this team actually gives us something to be happy about. Come on...the biggest moments this team has had these past few years is a shitty Dirty Dancing commercial and a boat trip.
If you can't be unhappy with the team now, when can you be?
RE: RE: Wasn’t aware of this as I stopped reading/listening to media Â
“Plus, maybe it’s unrelated, but it must be said: Pierre-Paul, 29, also was yucking it up in the Giants’ locker room with some teammates on Nov. 28, not 10 feet away from Eli Manning as the quarterback’s eyes welled up with tears as he discussed his benching for that week’s game in Oakland.
It was an unforgettable scene, and as the Giants re-commit to Manning, they part ways with Pierre-Paul.”
As always, Pat Leonard is a moron.
Why because you don't agree with his story/writing? Because he has access to know what the hell was really going on then some fan? Who's the moron?
RE: RE: RE: Wasn’t aware of this as I stopped reading/listening to media Â
Why because you don't agree with his story/writing? Because he has access to know what the hell was really going on then some fan? Who's the moron?
Do you think the Giants traded him because of that incident? IMO, only a moron would think there's a connection between this trade and that incident. Thus, I think Pat Leonard has given us another reason to think he's an imbecile.
I'll be happy when this team actually gives us something to be happy about. Come on...the biggest moments this team has had these past few years is a shitty Dirty Dancing commercial and a boat trip.
If you can't be unhappy with the team now, when can you be?
Come on Terps. You have to admit that it finally appears that the team is heading in the right direction. Only one other team has enjoyed hoisting the twice in the last 11 years.
for the past 8 seasons. JPP you were a stud. I will never forget the Dallas game. I have your Jersey for a reason. Good Luck in Tampa.
2nd- Thank God Jerry Reese is gone and Dave Gettleman is in charge. Reese(forget the 2 SBs) is a GARBAGE General Manager. I don't need to repeat the mistakes, Jerry made, but geez just look at where the players, we drafted, from 08-13 are currently...
3rd-Gettleman I love you. Yes this is his first offseason so I truly hope he keeps it up. Lets build a consistent roster year in year out.
This move needed to be made and I'm excited for the extra 3rd round pick. So much talent in this draft! We are going to take 2 studs at 66 and 69
I did a mock draft at Fanspeak with the extra pick
Let me know what you guys think
2.Sam Darnold QB USC(Sam will be first so I would go Josh Rosen)
34.Sam Hubbard DE Ohio St.(This seems unrealistic Hubbard looks like a 1st round talent...IF not Hubbard, How about Arden Keys DE LSU?)
66.Brain O'Neil OT Pitt
69.Nick Chubb RB Georgia
108.Darius Leonard LB S.Carolina St.
139.Justin Jones DT NC State
RE: RE: don't know why the assumption that Chubb is in play Â
Perhaps my memory is hazy on this, but what I remember is people being divided BEFORE he was re-signed to the $62M deal. But AFTER he was re-signed, most people seemed to be OK with it except for very few folks.
If that isn't true, I stand corrected. But that's the way I remember it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Wasn’t aware of this as I stopped reading/listening to media Â
Why because you don't agree with his story/writing? Because he has access to know what the hell was really going on then some fan? Who's the moron?
Do you think the Giants traded him because of that incident? IMO, only a moron would think there's a connection between this trade and that incident. Thus, I think Pat Leonard has given us another reason to think he's an imbecile.
No. I took it as JPP not being the “locker room guy” he was purported to be.
* It's too soon to say about "heading in the right direction". Cleaning out some of the dead weight needed to be done, but let''s see how the draft goes and the team responds to Shurmur.
* while not the sole reason, JPP yucking it up during Eli's worst day as a Giant was a bad look, and enhanced his rep as being less than a team leader. I think losing the contract was the prime driver. Getting the extra 3rd rounder made it a no brainer.
* I recall there being a divergence of opinion on JPP before AND after the fireworks incident. I never thought he became the great player we hoped for. A good player, not the great dominant guy who made others better, successor to Strahan and Tuck. It's no coincidence that he was at his best in 2011 with Tuck still there, especially in the 2nd half of the year when Tuck snapped out of his funk. I was against the contract they gave him. He wasn't worth it, as they have finally admitted.
* some will contiue to fellate him here no matter what. they know who they are.
* while not the sole reason, JPP yucking it up during Eli's worst day as a Giant was a bad look, and enhanced his rep as being less than a team leader. I think losing the contract was the prime driver. Getting the extra 3rd rounder made it a no brainer.
Had this been JPP's response during "Eli's worst day as a Giant",
this is still a trade they had to make. He has no natural fit in the new defense. They get out from his contract with Beckham/Collins extensions looming and they get a valuable day 2 pick in addition. Bringing up the Eli thing is just pure nonsense and typical of Pat Leonard stupidity.
looked at it yet, but here is the old thread... http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=550538&show_all=1 - ( New Window )
some comical stuff on this old thread:
*Now that's more like it! - Keith
*nice! JPP is a true Giant. I hope he doesn't take it easy after getting paid, though. - SHO'NUFF (comical but prescient)
*Excellent news. He's worth it. Add Reddick in the draft and the defense gives us a good shot at a SB. - KWALL2
*maybe he is ready to finally become team CAPTAIN - Spike
*This was a 11-5 team that has added a big productive WR (team need), a blocking TE (team need), a G/T (team need), hasn't lost anyone of any signifance (Hankins still in limbo) and the draft is still yet to come. Seems a strange time to be killing the GM, though I'm not surprised that you continue to do so. You've made your mind up. Reese sucks. Nothing will ever change your mind so you will continue to litter every single thread with your agenda. Lucky us! - BigBlueShock
*"Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god." AND "This roster, IMO, is the best its been since the GMEN of the mid to late 80s. And IMO Reese is one of the best if not the very best GM in all of football, at least as of lately."
- est1986 (congrats, you have 2)
most accurate: That Limerick Guy:
*WAAAY to much
but hopefully it is front loaded. Pay him now and in 18 months when we all realize what a disaster it was to give the following player 40 million guaranteed:
1. A man with 7 fingers
2. With proven immaturity issues (Prince in Tub/Fireworks)
3. And motivation issues (came to camp looking like Kevin James one year)
4. And injury concerns (Bad back/surgery and dinged all the time)
We can cut bait and move on without really crippling us in 2 years.
Question:
Whatever happened to dr. kenneth??
RE: RE: I think DG is doing good things, things that needed to be done, but: Â
* while not the sole reason, JPP yucking it up during Eli's worst day as a Giant was a bad look, and enhanced his rep as being less than a team leader. I think losing the contract was the prime driver. Getting the extra 3rd rounder made it a no brainer.
Had this been JPP's response during "Eli's worst day as a Giant",
this is still a trade they had to make. He has no natural fit in the new defense. They get out from his contract with Beckham/Collins extensions looming and they get a valuable day 2 pick in addition. Bringing up the Eli thing is just pure nonsense and typical of Pat Leonard stupidity.
You obviously have issues with reading comprehension and JPP worship. You can take poster off the ceiling over your bed now. Think about taking the Shockey one down too. Jeez. You take a reasonable analysis and turn into to more whiny bullshit. Do you really think that was a good look given the circumstances? Are you saying that from what i wrote that I think that is why they traded him?
...because he played really well in 2016. I wanted to see him progress, or at least maintain that level.
JPP is a solid player.....but we haven't seen the improvement.
In fact, his entire career has been like that. He was a very good rookie then impact player in 2011. But disappeared for large stretches after that- meaning he wasn't making big plays - but rather being a solid DE.
We are paying him to make big plays. He doesn't provide that.
Third round pick and cap savings - the way I think I'm reading this - is welcomed at this point.
If we had signed JPP to a 2-year deal with only 6M guaranteed total, and where his cap hit would only take up roughly 6% and 4% of our cap respectively in 2016 and 2017, and then his contract expired, he got a new deal from TB, and we received a 3rd rd pick as compensation, would anyone have looked at it as a bad signing relative to the production?
He was clearly underwhelming given the nature of the full contract - but forget the full contract. If he gave us what he did and it was just a 2 year deal where we only paid him what he made in those 2 years, I think the perception of the signing would be quite different and probably looked at much more favorably.
JPP is a good player that we were paying like a great player.
It is what it is - he's gone, we're out of the contract, and we got an extra 3rd rd pick out of it to help with the rebuild process.
Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.
I agree, but his money could’ve been used to bolster an OL spot in FA that year. Some quality FA OL were on the market.
The Giants were in a tough spot. They had to pay in FA because the drafts had been so shitty and there was no one promising on the depth chart behind JPP.
If we had signed JPP to a 2-year deal with only 6M guaranteed total, and where his cap hit would only take up roughly 6% and 4% of our cap respectively in 2016 and 2017, and then his contract expired, he got a new deal from TB, and we received a 3rd rd pick as compensation, would anyone have looked at it as a bad signing relative to the production?
He was clearly underwhelming given the nature of the full contract - but forget the full contract. If he gave us what he did and it was just a 2 year deal where we only paid him what he made in those 2 years, I think the perception of the signing would be quite different and probably looked at much more favorably.
But we didn't.
We'll probably never know what moves we didn't make because we thought we were set at DE. Maybe we make a push for Calais Campbell (a guy actually worth the money he's getting). Maybe we spend it elsewhere. Maybe we draft differently.
What you call a reframe, I'd call a rationalization. But whatever you want to call it, the team has been shit and the locker room poisonous, and JPP had his role in both.
They had to pay in FA because the drafts had been so shitty and there was no one promising on the depth chart behind JPP.
You never HAVE to pay, and you certainly never have to overpay.
It's worth remembering that the best football the defense played in 2016 came AFTER JPP was hurt and Okwara took his place. I got destroyed for saying that in spring 2017, but it's an absolute fact.
had a couple of great years but then has been mediocre for quite awhile. I think it’s a good trade. The Giants need to retool in many areas. We have. New style defense coming in, whether or not we go to 3-4. We also were 3-13 and possibly the worst team in football last year. Best of luck JPP
If we had signed JPP to a 2-year deal with only 6M guaranteed total, and where his cap hit would only take up roughly 6% and 4% of our cap respectively in 2016 and 2017, and then his contract expired, he got a new deal from TB, and we received a 3rd rd pick as compensation, would anyone have looked at it as a bad signing relative to the production?
He was clearly underwhelming given the nature of the full contract - but forget the full contract. If he gave us what he did and it was just a 2 year deal where we only paid him what he made in those 2 years, I think the perception of the signing would be quite different and probably looked at much more favorably.
But we didn't.
We'll probably never know what moves we didn't make because we thought we were set at DE. Maybe we make a push for Calais Campbell (a guy actually worth the money he's getting). Maybe we spend it elsewhere. Maybe we draft differently.
What you call a reframe, I'd call a rationalization. But whatever you want to call it, the team has been shit and the locker room poisonous, and JPP had his role in both.
Good riddance.
Eh, he also had a role on an 11 win team just one season ago.
The guy gets talked about like he contributed nothing.
Inconsistent? Yes. Questionable effort at times? Yes. Injuries taking a toll? Yep.
But it wasn't all bad.
Reality is that we only paid him for 2 years - the two with the lowest cap figures and gtd money. And the production we got relative to that cost was actually fair.
I'm happy we made this deal - we got an asset out of it and don't have to pay him the heavy sum years where he's not likely to improve.
Bottom line is that no matter how much you loved or hated the deal at the time, it didn't work out terribly when all was said and done.
Sure, we could have pursued someone else - but a guy like Campbell got a pretty hefty deal. After what we gave Vernon/Jenkins/Harrison, I'm not sure we ever would have added Campbell to that mix even without JPP.
Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't have. We'll never know, because JPP was the guy we hitched the wagon to.
And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.
Despite acting like someone with a 75 IQ and blowing off half a hand, JPP remained a courageous player who came somewhat close to earning the huge contract the Giants were generous and stupid enough to give him subsequently. He showed us that he was passionate enough to sometimes play beyond his desire to understand the game and up to his athleticism.
On the other hand (the healthy one), JPP rarely came off the ground to make plays after being blocked post-July 4th the way he did before, even if he got a decent number of sacks.
I'd give Serby the finger, but unlike JPP, I am careful to keep mine. The theme of JPP as a great warrior with a purple heart just sucks. Link - ( New Window )
Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't have. We'll never know, because JPP was the guy we hitched the wagon to.
And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.
Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.
I will say that so far, I like where we're going.
But yes, we still have a lot of work to do - so, hopefully that means we'll see more being done in the coming weeks.
RE: RE: RE: I think DG is doing good things, things that needed to be done, but: Â
You obviously have issues with reading comprehension and JPP worship. You can take poster off the ceiling over your bed now. Think about taking the Shockey one down too. Jeez. You take a reasonable analysis and turn into to more whiny bullshit. Do you really think that was a good look given the circumstances? Are you saying that from what i wrote that I think that is why they traded him?
Ummm... what? There's literally nothing reasonable or intelligent about bringing up that incident in what is supposed to be an analysis of this trade. Pat Leonard did that and that's why I called him a moron. JPP worship? What on GOD's green Earth are you talking about?
Pat Leonard himself says in the article, "Maybe it's unrelated, but..." Pat Leonard is the King of bringing up unrelated bullshit. For example, Odell's boat trip doesn't have to be brought up every time they lose a game. Yet, Leonard has managed to do that about 80% of the time since the boat trip. Why? Because he's a moron.
Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't have. We'll never know, because JPP was the guy we hitched the wagon to.
And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.
Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.
arc, as one of the highest paid and longest tenured member of that defense wouldnt you say JPP should take more of the blame for the disfunction lack of effort? He is supposed to be the guy leading the charge and it just never seemed to be the case.
I may be putting blind faith in DG but I would venture a guess that both JPP and DRC were targeted as the source of negative influences in the locker room. What additional cuts are you hoping for, I cant pick out anyone else on the D would still be on the chopping block besides Eli Apple.
I havent seen this commented on although I am sure it has to have been Â
so I apologize for missing this. But what are the cap implications for this year? Since his 20 million dollar signing bonus is accelarated to this year, am I right in thinking he is still about a 15 million dollar cap hit this year? So only a couple of million in savings?
Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't have. We'll never know, because JPP was the guy we hitched the wagon to.
And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.
Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.
arc, as one of the highest paid and longest tenured member of that defense wouldnt you say JPP should take more of the blame for the disfunction lack of effort? He is supposed to be the guy leading the charge and it just never seemed to be the case.
I may be putting blind faith in DG but I would venture a guess that both JPP and DRC were targeted as the source of negative influences in the locker room. What additional cuts are you hoping for, I cant pick out anyone else on the D would still be on the chopping block besides Eli Apple.
Had the potential to be very special. All the natural talent in the world . Thought he was the next great DE. Good luck, you had us all up on our feet many times.
This will probably have to wait a year, but whenever Vernon, Jenkins, and Apple go that will be fine with me. Actually, the sooner we can move on from the entire 2017 team the better.
RE: I havent seen this commented on although I am sure it has to have been Â
so I apologize for missing this. But what are the cap implications for this year? Since his 20 million dollar signing bonus is accelarated to this year, am I right in thinking he is still about a 15 million dollar cap hit this year? So only a couple of million in savings?
it's 2.5 in savings this year, 19.5 in 2019 and 17.5 in 2020
Giants are smart enough to know that you don't just discard talented players. Jury still out on Apple - he can turn it aournd, it's up to him and how he's handled.
Giants are smart enough to know that you don't just discard talented players. Jury still out on Apple - he can turn it aournd, it's up to him and how he's handled.
Putting faith in guys to "turn it around" (Apple) or to be something they've never been (Vernon) is part of the reason this team sucks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think DG is doing good things, things that needed to be done, but: Â
You obviously have issues with reading comprehension and JPP worship. You can take poster off the ceiling over your bed now. Think about taking the Shockey one down too. Jeez. You take a reasonable analysis and turn into to more whiny bullshit. Do you really think that was a good look given the circumstances? Are you saying that from what i wrote that I think that is why they traded him?
Ummm... what? There's literally nothing reasonable or intelligent about bringing up that incident in what is supposed to be an analysis of this trade. Pat Leonard did that and that's why I called him a moron. JPP worship? What on GOD's green Earth are you talking about?
Pat Leonard himself says in the article, "Maybe it's unrelated, but..." Pat Leonard is the King of bringing up unrelated bullshit. For example, Odell's boat trip doesn't have to be brought up every time they lose a game. Yet, Leonard has managed to do that about 80% of the time since the boat trip. Why? Because he's a moron.
See this is where reading skills come in. You're responding to Leonard, not me. I'm not defending Leonard, nor do I like Leonard, nor did I say that incident is why they traded JPP. What part didn't you get?
who has had some injuries and is playing too many reps. Apple is in his 3rd year, had a decent rookie season. Bad year last year. Knew he was going to take some development. To say he hasn't shown anything is simply inaccurate.
And while I know there are people here that give me a hard time and say the salary cap doesn't matter, I would point out that we have $15 million in dead salary cap space that won't be suiting up in 2018 because we made the same mistake with JPP.
evaluation, but we have a new sheriff in town now. Things will be changing fast, Abrams is the best in the business. IF the owners let them do their jobs
Argggh ya' down with JPP?
Again...
If you can't be unhappy with the team now, when can you be?
Quote:
around that time. From Pat Leonard:
Quote:
“Plus, maybe it’s unrelated, but it must be said: Pierre-Paul, 29, also was yucking it up in the Giants’ locker room with some teammates on Nov. 28, not 10 feet away from Eli Manning as the quarterback’s eyes welled up with tears as he discussed his benching for that week’s game in Oakland.
It was an unforgettable scene, and as the Giants re-commit to Manning, they part ways with Pierre-Paul.”
As always, Pat Leonard is a moron.
Why because you don't agree with his story/writing? Because he has access to know what the hell was really going on then some fan? Who's the moron?
Why because you don't agree with his story/writing? Because he has access to know what the hell was really going on then some fan? Who's the moron?
Do you think the Giants traded him because of that incident? IMO, only a moron would think there's a connection between this trade and that incident. Thus, I think Pat Leonard has given us another reason to think he's an imbecile.
If you can't be unhappy with the team now, when can you be?
Come on Terps. You have to admit that it finally appears that the team is heading in the right direction. Only one other team has enjoyed hoisting the twice in the last 11 years.
That is until this new found cap space is used to give OBJ a new contract. You may blow a gasket!
Quote:
Seeking that 2 years ago everyone here except for me and GoTerps was fellating the guy.
You still can't figure out why people can't stand you...
Every post is of the self-congratulatory variety.
"I was right!"
"I said this all along!"
"No one listened but I always knew it!"
No one cares.
This could be solved with a locked sticky just saying TLG is right. It would save so so so many posts.
2nd- Thank God Jerry Reese is gone and Dave Gettleman is in charge. Reese(forget the 2 SBs) is a GARBAGE General Manager. I don't need to repeat the mistakes, Jerry made, but geez just look at where the players, we drafted, from 08-13 are currently...
3rd-Gettleman I love you. Yes this is his first offseason so I truly hope he keeps it up. Lets build a consistent roster year in year out.
This move needed to be made and I'm excited for the extra 3rd round pick. So much talent in this draft! We are going to take 2 studs at 66 and 69
I did a mock draft at Fanspeak with the extra pick
Let me know what you guys think
2.Sam Darnold QB USC(Sam will be first so I would go Josh Rosen)
34.Sam Hubbard DE Ohio St.(This seems unrealistic Hubbard looks like a 1st round talent...IF not Hubbard, How about Arden Keys DE LSU?)
66.Brain O'Neil OT Pitt
69.Nick Chubb RB Georgia
108.Darius Leonard LB S.Carolina St.
139.Justin Jones DT NC State
Quote:
automatically.
We traded away a prototypical 4-3 DE that is the odd man out in a 3-4 to draft another 4-3 DE?
unless the new DC runs a hybrid 3-4.
If that isn't true, I stand corrected. But that's the way I remember it.
Quote:
Why because you don't agree with his story/writing? Because he has access to know what the hell was really going on then some fan? Who's the moron?
Do you think the Giants traded him because of that incident? IMO, only a moron would think there's a connection between this trade and that incident. Thus, I think Pat Leonard has given us another reason to think he's an imbecile.
No. I took it as JPP not being the “locker room guy” he was purported to be.
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=550538&show_all=1 - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
* while not the sole reason, JPP yucking it up during Eli's worst day as a Giant was a bad look, and enhanced his rep as being less than a team leader. I think losing the contract was the prime driver. Getting the extra 3rd rounder made it a no brainer.
* I recall there being a divergence of opinion on JPP before AND after the fireworks incident. I never thought he became the great player we hoped for. A good player, not the great dominant guy who made others better, successor to Strahan and Tuck. It's no coincidence that he was at his best in 2011 with Tuck still there, especially in the 2nd half of the year when Tuck snapped out of his funk. I was against the contract they gave him. He wasn't worth it, as they have finally admitted.
* some will contiue to fellate him here no matter what. they know who they are.
Hmmm.......
* while not the sole reason, JPP yucking it up during Eli's worst day as a Giant was a bad look, and enhanced his rep as being less than a team leader. I think losing the contract was the prime driver. Getting the extra 3rd rounder made it a no brainer.
Had this been JPP's response during "Eli's worst day as a Giant",
this is still a trade they had to make. He has no natural fit in the new defense. They get out from his contract with Beckham/Collins extensions looming and they get a valuable day 2 pick in addition. Bringing up the Eli thing is just pure nonsense and typical of Pat Leonard stupidity.
He wasn't in game shape yet, but he was all over the field.
some comical stuff on this old thread:
*Now that's more like it! - Keith
*nice! JPP is a true Giant. I hope he doesn't take it easy after getting paid, though. - SHO'NUFF (comical but prescient)
*Excellent news. He's worth it. Add Reddick in the draft and the defense gives us a good shot at a SB. - KWALL2
*maybe he is ready to finally become team CAPTAIN - Spike
*This was a 11-5 team that has added a big productive WR (team need), a blocking TE (team need), a G/T (team need), hasn't lost anyone of any signifance (Hankins still in limbo) and the draft is still yet to come. Seems a strange time to be killing the GM, though I'm not surprised that you continue to do so. You've made your mind up. Reese sucks. Nothing will ever change your mind so you will continue to litter every single thread with your agenda. Lucky us! - BigBlueShock
*"Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god." AND "This roster, IMO, is the best its been since the GMEN of the mid to late 80s. And IMO Reese is one of the best if not the very best GM in all of football, at least as of lately."
- est1986 (congrats, you have 2)
most accurate: That Limerick Guy:
*WAAAY to much
but hopefully it is front loaded. Pay him now and in 18 months when we all realize what a disaster it was to give the following player 40 million guaranteed:
1. A man with 7 fingers
2. With proven immaturity issues (Prince in Tub/Fireworks)
3. And motivation issues (came to camp looking like Kevin James one year)
4. And injury concerns (Bad back/surgery and dinged all the time)
We can cut bait and move on without really crippling us in 2 years.
Question:
Whatever happened to dr. kenneth??
Quote:
* while not the sole reason, JPP yucking it up during Eli's worst day as a Giant was a bad look, and enhanced his rep as being less than a team leader. I think losing the contract was the prime driver. Getting the extra 3rd rounder made it a no brainer.
Had this been JPP's response during "Eli's worst day as a Giant",
this is still a trade they had to make. He has no natural fit in the new defense. They get out from his contract with Beckham/Collins extensions looming and they get a valuable day 2 pick in addition. Bringing up the Eli thing is just pure nonsense and typical of Pat Leonard stupidity.
You obviously have issues with reading comprehension and JPP worship. You can take poster off the ceiling over your bed now. Think about taking the Shockey one down too. Jeez. You take a reasonable analysis and turn into to more whiny bullshit. Do you really think that was a good look given the circumstances? Are you saying that from what i wrote that I think that is why they traded him?
JPP is a solid player.....but we haven't seen the improvement.
In fact, his entire career has been like that. He was a very good rookie then impact player in 2011. But disappeared for large stretches after that- meaning he wasn't making big plays - but rather being a solid DE.
We are paying him to make big plays. He doesn't provide that.
Third round pick and cap savings - the way I think I'm reading this - is welcomed at this point.
If we had signed JPP to a 2-year deal with only 6M guaranteed total, and where his cap hit would only take up roughly 6% and 4% of our cap respectively in 2016 and 2017, and then his contract expired, he got a new deal from TB, and we received a 3rd rd pick as compensation, would anyone have looked at it as a bad signing relative to the production?
He was clearly underwhelming given the nature of the full contract - but forget the full contract. If he gave us what he did and it was just a 2 year deal where we only paid him what he made in those 2 years, I think the perception of the signing would be quite different and probably looked at much more favorably.
It is what it is - he's gone, we're out of the contract, and we got an extra 3rd rd pick out of it to help with the rebuild process.
Signing him to that contract in the first place didn't exactly cripple the franchise.
I agree, but his money could’ve been used to bolster an OL spot in FA that year. Some quality FA OL were on the market.
The Giants were in a tough spot. They had to pay in FA because the drafts had been so shitty and there was no one promising on the depth chart behind JPP.
Basically, we traded him for a 3rd rounder. Now have 6 draft picks, 2 in 3rd round.
Don't know if this means they take Chubb or not. I'd be okay with Chubb at # 2. You get cute, he may not be around later.
Still everything dependent on if they think QB is worth the # 2.
If we had signed JPP to a 2-year deal with only 6M guaranteed total, and where his cap hit would only take up roughly 6% and 4% of our cap respectively in 2016 and 2017, and then his contract expired, he got a new deal from TB, and we received a 3rd rd pick as compensation, would anyone have looked at it as a bad signing relative to the production?
He was clearly underwhelming given the nature of the full contract - but forget the full contract. If he gave us what he did and it was just a 2 year deal where we only paid him what he made in those 2 years, I think the perception of the signing would be quite different and probably looked at much more favorably.
But we didn't.
We'll probably never know what moves we didn't make because we thought we were set at DE. Maybe we make a push for Calais Campbell (a guy actually worth the money he's getting). Maybe we spend it elsewhere. Maybe we draft differently.
What you call a reframe, I'd call a rationalization. But whatever you want to call it, the team has been shit and the locker room poisonous, and JPP had his role in both.
Good riddance.
You never HAVE to pay, and you certainly never have to overpay.
It's worth remembering that the best football the defense played in 2016 came AFTER JPP was hurt and Okwara took his place. I got destroyed for saying that in spring 2017, but it's an absolute fact.
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Re-frame it this way.
If we had signed JPP to a 2-year deal with only 6M guaranteed total, and where his cap hit would only take up roughly 6% and 4% of our cap respectively in 2016 and 2017, and then his contract expired, he got a new deal from TB, and we received a 3rd rd pick as compensation, would anyone have looked at it as a bad signing relative to the production?
He was clearly underwhelming given the nature of the full contract - but forget the full contract. If he gave us what he did and it was just a 2 year deal where we only paid him what he made in those 2 years, I think the perception of the signing would be quite different and probably looked at much more favorably.
But we didn't.
We'll probably never know what moves we didn't make because we thought we were set at DE. Maybe we make a push for Calais Campbell (a guy actually worth the money he's getting). Maybe we spend it elsewhere. Maybe we draft differently.
What you call a reframe, I'd call a rationalization. But whatever you want to call it, the team has been shit and the locker room poisonous, and JPP had his role in both.
Good riddance.
Eh, he also had a role on an 11 win team just one season ago.
The guy gets talked about like he contributed nothing.
Inconsistent? Yes. Questionable effort at times? Yes. Injuries taking a toll? Yep.
But it wasn't all bad.
Reality is that we only paid him for 2 years - the two with the lowest cap figures and gtd money. And the production we got relative to that cost was actually fair.
I'm happy we made this deal - we got an asset out of it and don't have to pay him the heavy sum years where he's not likely to improve.
Bottom line is that no matter how much you loved or hated the deal at the time, it didn't work out terribly when all was said and done.
Sure, we could have pursued someone else - but a guy like Campbell got a pretty hefty deal. After what we gave Vernon/Jenkins/Harrison, I'm not sure we ever would have added Campbell to that mix even without JPP.
And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.
Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.
On the other hand (the healthy one), JPP rarely came off the ground to make plays after being blocked post-July 4th the way he did before, even if he got a decent number of sacks.
I'd give Serby the finger, but unlike JPP, I am careful to keep mine. The theme of JPP as a great warrior with a purple heart just sucks.
Link - ( New Window )
And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.
Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.
I will say that so far, I like where we're going.
But yes, we still have a lot of work to do - so, hopefully that means we'll see more being done in the coming weeks.
You obviously have issues with reading comprehension and JPP worship. You can take poster off the ceiling over your bed now. Think about taking the Shockey one down too. Jeez. You take a reasonable analysis and turn into to more whiny bullshit. Do you really think that was a good look given the circumstances? Are you saying that from what i wrote that I think that is why they traded him?
Ummm... what? There's literally nothing reasonable or intelligent about bringing up that incident in what is supposed to be an analysis of this trade. Pat Leonard did that and that's why I called him a moron. JPP worship? What on GOD's green Earth are you talking about?
Pat Leonard himself says in the article, "Maybe it's unrelated, but..." Pat Leonard is the King of bringing up unrelated bullshit. For example, Odell's boat trip doesn't have to be brought up every time they lose a game. Yet, Leonard has managed to do that about 80% of the time since the boat trip. Why? Because he's a moron.
And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.
Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.
arc, as one of the highest paid and longest tenured member of that defense wouldnt you say JPP should take more of the blame for the disfunction lack of effort? He is supposed to be the guy leading the charge and it just never seemed to be the case.
I may be putting blind faith in DG but I would venture a guess that both JPP and DRC were targeted as the source of negative influences in the locker room. What additional cuts are you hoping for, I cant pick out anyone else on the D would still be on the chopping block besides Eli Apple.
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Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't have. We'll never know, because JPP was the guy we hitched the wagon to.
And yeah he was part of an 11 win team. That's fair. He was also part of a 3-13 team where the defense basically staged a mutiny and laid down like dogs. That's not entirely on him...a lot of those guys are still in the locker room.
Hopefully more moves are forthcoming.
arc, as one of the highest paid and longest tenured member of that defense wouldnt you say JPP should take more of the blame for the disfunction lack of effort? He is supposed to be the guy leading the charge and it just never seemed to be the case.
I may be putting blind faith in DG but I would venture a guess that both JPP and DRC were targeted as the source of negative influences in the locker room. What additional cuts are you hoping for, I cant pick out anyone else on the D would still be on the chopping block besides Eli Apple.
sorry arc, that was responding to terps.
it's 2.5 in savings this year, 19.5 in 2019 and 17.5 in 2020
Putting faith in guys to "turn it around" (Apple) or to be something they've never been (Vernon) is part of the reason this team sucks.
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You obviously have issues with reading comprehension and JPP worship. You can take poster off the ceiling over your bed now. Think about taking the Shockey one down too. Jeez. You take a reasonable analysis and turn into to more whiny bullshit. Do you really think that was a good look given the circumstances? Are you saying that from what i wrote that I think that is why they traded him?
Ummm... what? There's literally nothing reasonable or intelligent about bringing up that incident in what is supposed to be an analysis of this trade. Pat Leonard did that and that's why I called him a moron. JPP worship? What on GOD's green Earth are you talking about?
Pat Leonard himself says in the article, "Maybe it's unrelated, but..." Pat Leonard is the King of bringing up unrelated bullshit. For example, Odell's boat trip doesn't have to be brought up every time they lose a game. Yet, Leonard has managed to do that about 80% of the time since the boat trip. Why? Because he's a moron.
See this is where reading skills come in. You're responding to Leonard, not me. I'm not defending Leonard, nor do I like Leonard, nor did I say that incident is why they traded JPP. What part didn't you get?