some of the better players and better picks aren't gone due to a lack of talent.
Wilson, Jones, Nicks, Phillips, Thomas, all ended early due to injuries.
Plus they never even gave Stoney Woodson a chance, man!
While the drafting got steadily worse during that period, I still refute the notion I've seen on here that the 2008 draft was a bad class.
Round 1 (31st) -- Kenny Phillips (S) ...
Round 2 (63rd) -- Terrell Thomas (CB) ...
Round 3 (95th) -- Mario Manningham (WR) ...
Round 4 (123rd) -- Bryan Kehl (OLB) ...
Round 5 (165th) -- Jonathan Goff (MLB) ...
Round 6 (198th) -- Andre Woodson (QB) ...
Round 6 (199th -- compensatory pick -- Robert Henderson (DE)
The first three picks were all good players, and Goff was showing some belated promise before his knee exploded. Kehl didn't work out here but hung around the league for a bit before his knee exploded.
Fun fact: the first 5 players in this draft essentially injured themselves out of the league before their second contacts. (4 acl's and one arthritic knee)
this is revisonist history. Kehl and Goff SUCKED. Manningham was a good #3 threat but very inconsistent, not vry bright.. THey drafted Thomas knowing he had a severe knee operation in college. It was only a matter of time. Phillips is the only one who was legitimately bad luck.
Goff was actually playing quite well. He was the clear starting MLB and beginning to look like a top player before his injuries.
Howe many players drafted before 2010 are still the league. I would guess very few. If an NFL team gets 5 good years from a draft pick I would guess that's a great pick now.
You can do you cute +1 all you want. They have no players left on their roster from six consecutive drafts...we're not just talking 10 years ago, but 4, 5, and 6.
Guess what, the most recent drafts since then aren't looking so good either.
Remind me again: how many teams in the league have zero players left from 2008-13? How many other than the Giants have less than 5?
Btw, remember back to when Reese would make a seemingly strange drfr pick, or would leave an entire squad (OL, LB) undermanned, and people would say, "Don't worry, Reese knows what he's doing."?
It's often called confirmation bias. I had it too, btw.
You can do you cute +1 all you want. They have no players left on their roster from six consecutive drafts...we're not just talking 10 years ago, but 4, 5, and 6.
Guess what, the most recent drafts since then aren't looking so good either.
What do you mean Eric, all is well!!! :-)
2014 - 1 player left (OBJ), 2015 - 2 players (Collins and Flowers, who is hanging on by a thread).
2016 and 2017 seem promising, but it's still too soon to fairly say.
I am holding out some faint hope for Flowers becoming a steady player. New scheme that actually helps the OL, better OL coach MIGHT make a difference, but not holding my breath. I still think Apple has a chance depending on where his head is at. He showed alot in 2016. If last year was caused by his mother's illness, maybe he bounces back. Maybe.
The NINTH player taken in the entire 2015 NFL Draft was Ereck Flowers.
The TENTH PLAYER taken in the entire 2016 NFL Draft was Eli Apple.
TWO TOP 10 PLAYERS taken within the last three years!
You combine that with three players left from 2014-2015.
And no players left from 2008-2013. Not even a back-up. Not even a special teams player. No one. Is there another team in the NFL that has no one on their roster from those drafts?
assuming Nat Berhe and Jay Bromely are gone, we have one player left from the 2014 draft.
We have two players left from the 2015 draft.
What does it take for you guys to open up your fucking eyes?
I'll respond to this one with this...
Open our fucking eyes to what?!!!
That Reese did a horrible job the last few years he was here? WE ALL KNOW THIS!!!!
The real question is, how many fucking times do we need to be reminded of it? You already got 99% of this board cursing Reese's name every chance they get and very few want to give him any credit for the two Super Bowls that were delivered under his watch. Most seem to have conveniently forgotten the numerous boneheaded mistakes both Coughlin and Eli have made during their tenure here and now want to attribute everything that's gone wrong on one man... Reese.
We get it. Thanks for reminding us... again.
RE: For anyone that doesn't think this is ridiculous
. Check out the Eagles during this time frame - ( New Window )
And hence who is defending champs and who finished 3-13? When you go back 4 years and not one player left on your team then that's malpractice. Something very wrong there.
assuming Nat Berhe and Jay Bromely are gone, we have one player left from the 2014 draft.
We have two players left from the 2015 draft.
What does it take for you guys to open up your fucking eyes?
I'll respond to this one with this...
Open our fucking eyes to what?!!!
That Reese did a horrible job the last few years he was here? WE ALL KNOW THIS!!!!
The real question is, how many fucking times do we need to be reminded of it? You already got 99% of this board cursing Reese's name every chance they get and very few want to give him any credit for the two Super Bowls that were delivered under his watch. Most seem to have conveniently forgotten the numerous boneheaded mistakes both Coughlin and Eli have made during their tenure here and now want to attribute everything that's gone wrong on one man... Reese.
We get it. Thanks for reminding us... again.
I see nothing wrong with what Eric is pointing out. I for one did not realize how bad the drafting was. I didn't realize we have zero players left from even 4 drafts ago. I'm glad Eric posted this. Opened my eyes.
It's really crazy how Nicks lost all of his explosion at such a young age, Phillips we were more prepared for the early fall off .
Both were so damn talented and good.
Terrell Thomas was looking like an all world playmaker at CB mastering the strip fumble and a tackling machine but Giants brass knew his knee was flagged at the draft
Damn shame Linval Joseph got away but it's all good
assuming Nat Berhe and Jay Bromely are gone, we have one player left from the 2014 draft.
We have two players left from the 2015 draft.
What does it take for you guys to open up your fucking eyes?
I'll respond to this one with this...
Open our fucking eyes to what?!!!
That Reese did a horrible job the last few years he was here? WE ALL KNOW THIS!!!!
The real question is, how many fucking times do we need to be reminded of it? You already got 99% of this board cursing Reese's name every chance they get and very few want to give him any credit for the two Super Bowls that were delivered under his watch. Most seem to have conveniently forgotten the numerous boneheaded mistakes both Coughlin and Eli have made during their tenure here and now want to attribute everything that's gone wrong on one man... Reese.
We get it. Thanks for reminding us... again.
I see nothing wrong with what Eric is pointing out. I for one did not realize how bad the drafting was. I didn't realize we have zero players left from even 4 drafts ago. I'm glad Eric posted this. Opened my eyes.
yankee - I'd agree with you if similar posts to this one haven't been posted more than once in the past few weeks. Maybe you missed them. My eyes have been opened WIDE to the issues Reese had while here... it's been acknowledge and beaten to death here over the past few months. Eric (especially since it's his site) and others can post whatever they want... but I just find it funny how the man produced two Super Bowl victories all the while being the worst GM in the history of the league.
the stunning amount of injuries (both of the fluke kind like the safety from LSU who got into that car accident to the unlucky kind like D. Wilson) that his selections have suffered throughout the years.
But I'm not even going to use the above as an excuse or a defense of Reeese because there isn't one. I know that and accept that... and even agree with it. What pisses me off is how whenever any criticism of Coughlin or Eli comes up all anyone wants to do is throw the two Super Bowl victories out there and yet with Reese it doesn't count.
The Giants dont have a single player remaining from their 2010-13 draft classes. They are one of three teams, along with the Jacksonville Jaguars and Oakland Raiders, without anyone remaining from those four drafts. The Giants have only one player, Odell Beckham, remaining from the 2014 draft.
The NINTH player taken in the entire 2015 NFL Draft was Ereck Flowers.
The TENTH PLAYER taken in the entire 2016 NFL Draft was Eli Apple.
TWO TOP 10 PLAYERS taken within the last three years!
You combine that with three players left from 2014-2015.
And no players left from 2008-2013. Not even a back-up. Not even a special teams player. No one. Is there another team in the NFL that has no one on their roster from those drafts?
I would curtail the time period form 2013 to the present. 2008 is too far back with such a short average career span. But it's just as telling...I'd love to know how this compares league wide.
How much weight do you put on coaching possibly stunting any growth/development?
It does contain a lot of data with respect to all of the teams during the covered period. Can be used as a guide to what an average team does over a similar time period. Draft analysis - ( New Window )
Field Yates
Verified account @FieldYates
4m4 minutes ago
Field Yates Retweeted Jordan Raanan
A notable stat from this piece: the Giants have just one player from their 2010-2014 draft classes still on the roster (Odell Beckham, Jr.). Staggering.
Field Yates
Verified account @FieldYates
4m4 minutes ago
Field Yates Retweeted Jordan Raanan
A notable stat from this piece: the Giants have just one player from their 2010-2014 draft classes still on the roster (Odell Beckham, Jr.). Staggering.
have experienced some kind of success (playoff appearances) within the past few years...
The Jags are everyone's favorite 'up and coming' team and were close to being in the Super Bowl themselves this year.
And the Raiders were everyone's preseason darling to be the team that represented the AFC in the Super Bowl this past season.
And the Giants were a lot of analyst preseason pick to represent the NFC this year (as I'm sure most will forget).
So I supposed what can be extrapolated from this is that good drafting is NOT a requirement for success in the league (I know this isn't true by the way)?
Exposed as a poor drafter and poor at roster construction. My point to you was using just the time period of 08-13 is too far back because of the short career spans in the league. I would rather go 08-15 and see how they compare to the rest of the league. I would bet near the bottom. I think that makes the point better.
It will also explain why this roster will be almost completely turned over in 3 yrs by Gettleman.
Exposed as a poor drafter and poor at roster construction. My point to you was using just the time period of 08-13 is too far back because of the short career spans in the league. I would rather go 08-15 and see how they compare to the rest of the league. I would bet near the bottom. I think that makes the point better.
It will also explain why this roster will be almost completely turned over in 3 yrs by Gettleman.
Four years is not too long.
Again, only two other teams share this stat with the Giants.
The Giants have been poorly coached and managed on the field for a while, too. Terrible player development is a big factor.
Hell yeah it is. How many players showed tantalizing promise early in their careers, only to deteriorate seriously in year 2 or 3 and plateau at that level?
It was so bad that I'm terrified we'll see the same occur with Collins, Engram, and Tomlinson.
For some context league wide this is how many players
are left on their original teams from those first few drafts you referenced:
2008: 2 (Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco)
2009: 4 (Matthew Stafford, Clay Matthews and 2 punters) - this doesn't count teams who reacquired players they drafted like NE with Patrick Chung, he was with other teams and CIN with Michael Johnson)
2010: 22 players, I won't name them
so, almost all teams have no one left on their rosters that they drafted in 2008 - 2010.
I won't do the rest, but 2011 - 2013 were poor drafts, we all acknowledge that. Just not sure you can conclude the same about 2008 - 2010 just because the Giants have no one left from them. No one really does.
still on the Giants roster is that to the best of my knowledge only Prince Amukamara, Justin Pugh and Jonathan Hankins are the only players left in the NFL on any roster from the 2011 - 2013 drafts.
still on the Giants roster is that to the best of my knowledge only Prince Amukamara, Justin Pugh and Jonathan Hankins are the only players left in the NFL on any roster from the 2011 - 2013 drafts.
Why is that damning? There's a ton of career-ending injuries to their 1st and second round picks.
still on the Giants roster is that to the best of my knowledge only Prince Amukamara, Justin Pugh and Jonathan Hankins are the only players left in the NFL on any roster from the 2011 - 2013 drafts.
Why is that damning? There's a ton of career-ending injuries to their 1st and second round picks.
there is one career ending injury from the 2011 - 2013 drafts that I am aware of, David Wilson.
Hardly seems like "a ton of career-ending injuries to their 1st and second round picks"
still on the Giants roster is that to the best of my knowledge only Prince Amukamara, Justin Pugh and Jonathan Hankins are the only players left in the NFL on any roster from the 2011 - 2013 drafts.
Why is that damning? There's a ton of career-ending injuries to their 1st and second round picks.
there is one career ending injury from the 2011 - 2013 drafts that I am aware of, David Wilson.
Hardly seems like "a ton of career-ending injuries to their 1st and second round picks"
Oops, looked past the date, thought you were using the same period of time as the title.
Not sure why it needs to be symmetrical in everyone's eyes. I think it was much more the front office's fault for the decline than TC. You can only coach on fumes for so long. 2013 might have been one of his finest coaching seasons considering the roster.
Quote:
In comment 13879544 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
some of the better players and better picks aren't gone due to a lack of talent.
Wilson, Jones, Nicks, Phillips, Thomas, all ended early due to injuries.
Plus they never even gave Stoney Woodson a chance, man!
While the drafting got steadily worse during that period, I still refute the notion I've seen on here that the 2008 draft was a bad class.
Round 1 (31st) -- Kenny Phillips (S) ...
Round 2 (63rd) -- Terrell Thomas (CB) ...
Round 3 (95th) -- Mario Manningham (WR) ...
Round 4 (123rd) -- Bryan Kehl (OLB) ...
Round 5 (165th) -- Jonathan Goff (MLB) ...
Round 6 (198th) -- Andre Woodson (QB) ...
Round 6 (199th -- compensatory pick -- Robert Henderson (DE)
The first three picks were all good players, and Goff was showing some belated promise before his knee exploded. Kehl didn't work out here but hung around the league for a bit before his knee exploded.
Fun fact: the first 5 players in this draft essentially injured themselves out of the league before their second contacts. (4 acl's and one arthritic knee)
this is revisonist history. Kehl and Goff SUCKED. Manningham was a good #3 threat but very inconsistent, not vry bright.. THey drafted Thomas knowing he had a severe knee operation in college. It was only a matter of time. Phillips is the only one who was legitimately bad luck.
Goff was actually playing quite well. He was the clear starting MLB and beginning to look like a top player before his injuries.
The guy never played.....we have no idea of what he might have done...he was drafted in the 3rd round....need I say more?
what, you didn't like Brandon Myers? :-)
Please don't bring in logic when Eric and company are in their "loud angry noises" mood. They will answer with more "loud angry noises" instead
It's six consecutive drafts ending with the draft from four years ago. NOT ONE PLAYER LEFT.
No, it's not extreme. Not even close.
Quote:
But what percentage of players are left on any team from a draft a decade ago?
Please don't bring in logic when Eric and company are in their "loud angry noises" mood. They will answer with more "loud angry noises" instead
+1
Guess what, the most recent drafts since then aren't looking so good either.
We have two players left from the 2015 draft.
What does it take for you guys to open up your fucking eyes?
Btw, remember back to when Reese would make a seemingly strange drfr pick, or would leave an entire squad (OL, LB) undermanned, and people would say, "Don't worry, Reese knows what he's doing."?
It's often called confirmation bias. I had it too, btw.
We have two players left from the 2015 draft.
What does it take for you guys to open up your fucking eyes?
Jints fans are some of the smartest in football. See?
I am adding more to my post. This is very troubling. Not one player left from even 4 years ago? How do others not find this troubling?
Guess what, the most recent drafts since then aren't looking so good either.
What do you mean Eric, all is well!!! :-)
2014 - 1 player left (OBJ), 2015 - 2 players (Collins and Flowers, who is hanging on by a thread).
2016 and 2017 seem promising, but it's still too soon to fairly say.
I am holding out some faint hope for Flowers becoming a steady player. New scheme that actually helps the OL, better OL coach MIGHT make a difference, but not holding my breath. I still think Apple has a chance depending on where his head is at. He showed alot in 2016. If last year was caused by his mother's illness, maybe he bounces back. Maybe.
Check out the Eagles during this time frame - ( New Window )
The NINTH player taken in the entire 2015 NFL Draft was Ereck Flowers.
The TENTH PLAYER taken in the entire 2016 NFL Draft was Eli Apple.
TWO TOP 10 PLAYERS taken within the last three years!
You combine that with three players left from 2014-2015.
And no players left from 2008-2013. Not even a back-up. Not even a special teams player. No one. Is there another team in the NFL that has no one on their roster from those drafts?
We have two players left from the 2015 draft.
What does it take for you guys to open up your fucking eyes?
I'll respond to this one with this...
Open our fucking eyes to what?!!!
That Reese did a horrible job the last few years he was here? WE ALL KNOW THIS!!!!
The real question is, how many fucking times do we need to be reminded of it? You already got 99% of this board cursing Reese's name every chance they get and very few want to give him any credit for the two Super Bowls that were delivered under his watch. Most seem to have conveniently forgotten the numerous boneheaded mistakes both Coughlin and Eli have made during their tenure here and now want to attribute everything that's gone wrong on one man... Reese.
We get it. Thanks for reminding us... again.
And hence who is defending champs and who finished 3-13? When you go back 4 years and not one player left on your team then that's malpractice. Something very wrong there.
Quote:
assuming Nat Berhe and Jay Bromely are gone, we have one player left from the 2014 draft.
We have two players left from the 2015 draft.
What does it take for you guys to open up your fucking eyes?
I'll respond to this one with this...
Open our fucking eyes to what?!!!
That Reese did a horrible job the last few years he was here? WE ALL KNOW THIS!!!!
The real question is, how many fucking times do we need to be reminded of it? You already got 99% of this board cursing Reese's name every chance they get and very few want to give him any credit for the two Super Bowls that were delivered under his watch. Most seem to have conveniently forgotten the numerous boneheaded mistakes both Coughlin and Eli have made during their tenure here and now want to attribute everything that's gone wrong on one man... Reese.
We get it. Thanks for reminding us... again.
I see nothing wrong with what Eric is pointing out. I for one did not realize how bad the drafting was. I didn't realize we have zero players left from even 4 drafts ago. I'm glad Eric posted this. Opened my eyes.
Both fell off so fast after that.
It's really crazy how Nicks lost all of his explosion at such a young age, Phillips we were more prepared for the early fall off .
Both were so damn talented and good.
Terrell Thomas was looking like an all world playmaker at CB mastering the strip fumble and a tackling machine but Giants brass knew his knee was flagged at the draft
Damn shame Linval Joseph got away but it's all good
Quote:
In comment 13880643 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
assuming Nat Berhe and Jay Bromely are gone, we have one player left from the 2014 draft.
We have two players left from the 2015 draft.
What does it take for you guys to open up your fucking eyes?
I'll respond to this one with this...
Open our fucking eyes to what?!!!
That Reese did a horrible job the last few years he was here? WE ALL KNOW THIS!!!!
The real question is, how many fucking times do we need to be reminded of it? You already got 99% of this board cursing Reese's name every chance they get and very few want to give him any credit for the two Super Bowls that were delivered under his watch. Most seem to have conveniently forgotten the numerous boneheaded mistakes both Coughlin and Eli have made during their tenure here and now want to attribute everything that's gone wrong on one man... Reese.
We get it. Thanks for reminding us... again.
I see nothing wrong with what Eric is pointing out. I for one did not realize how bad the drafting was. I didn't realize we have zero players left from even 4 drafts ago. I'm glad Eric posted this. Opened my eyes.
yankee - I'd agree with you if similar posts to this one haven't been posted more than once in the past few weeks. Maybe you missed them. My eyes have been opened WIDE to the issues Reese had while here... it's been acknowledge and beaten to death here over the past few months. Eric (especially since it's his site) and others can post whatever they want... but I just find it funny how the man produced two Super Bowl victories all the while being the worst GM in the history of the league.
But I'm not even going to use the above as an excuse or a defense of Reeese because there isn't one. I know that and accept that... and even agree with it. What pisses me off is how whenever any criticism of Coughlin or Eli comes up all anyone wants to do is throw the two Super Bowl victories out there and yet with Reese it doesn't count.
Pierre-Paul trade sets stage for more Giants moves - ( New Window )
The NINTH player taken in the entire 2015 NFL Draft was Ereck Flowers.
The TENTH PLAYER taken in the entire 2016 NFL Draft was Eli Apple.
TWO TOP 10 PLAYERS taken within the last three years!
You combine that with three players left from 2014-2015.
And no players left from 2008-2013. Not even a back-up. Not even a special teams player. No one. Is there another team in the NFL that has no one on their roster from those drafts?
I would curtail the time period form 2013 to the present. 2008 is too far back with such a short average career span. But it's just as telling...I'd love to know how this compares league wide.
How much weight do you put on coaching possibly stunting any growth/development?
Draft analysis - ( New Window )
Field Yates
Verified account @FieldYates
4m4 minutes ago
Field Yates Retweeted Jordan Raanan
A notable stat from this piece: the Giants have just one player from their 2010-2014 draft classes still on the roster (Odell Beckham, Jr.). Staggering.
Field Yates
Verified account @FieldYates
4m4 minutes ago
Field Yates Retweeted Jordan Raanan
A notable stat from this piece: the Giants have just one player from their 2010-2014 draft classes still on the roster (Odell Beckham, Jr.). Staggering.
"Reese is God"...... ugh
The Jags are everyone's favorite 'up and coming' team and were close to being in the Super Bowl themselves this year.
And the Raiders were everyone's preseason darling to be the team that represented the AFC in the Super Bowl this past season.
And the Giants were a lot of analyst preseason pick to represent the NFC this year (as I'm sure most will forget).
So I supposed what can be extrapolated from this is that good drafting is NOT a requirement for success in the league (I know this isn't true by the way)?
The Jags are everyone's favorite 'up and coming' team and were close to being in the Super Bowl themselves this year.
And the Raiders were everyone's preseason darling to be the team that represented the AFC in the Super Bowl this past season.
It will also explain why this roster will be almost completely turned over in 3 yrs by Gettleman.
It will also explain why this roster will be almost completely turned over in 3 yrs by Gettleman.
Four years is not too long.
Again, only two other teams share this stat with the Giants.
Hell yeah it is. How many players showed tantalizing promise early in their careers, only to deteriorate seriously in year 2 or 3 and plateau at that level?
It was so bad that I'm terrified we'll see the same occur with Collins, Engram, and Tomlinson.
2008: 2 (Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco)
2009: 4 (Matthew Stafford, Clay Matthews and 2 punters) - this doesn't count teams who reacquired players they drafted like NE with Patrick Chung, he was with other teams and CIN with Michael Johnson)
2010: 22 players, I won't name them
so, almost all teams have no one left on their rosters that they drafted in 2008 - 2010.
I won't do the rest, but 2011 - 2013 were poor drafts, we all acknowledge that. Just not sure you can conclude the same about 2008 - 2010 just because the Giants have no one left from them. No one really does.
Why is that damning? There's a ton of career-ending injuries to their 1st and second round picks.
Quote:
still on the Giants roster is that to the best of my knowledge only Prince Amukamara, Justin Pugh and Jonathan Hankins are the only players left in the NFL on any roster from the 2011 - 2013 drafts.
Why is that damning? There's a ton of career-ending injuries to their 1st and second round picks.
there is one career ending injury from the 2011 - 2013 drafts that I am aware of, David Wilson.
Hardly seems like "a ton of career-ending injuries to their 1st and second round picks"
Quote:
In comment 13881209 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
still on the Giants roster is that to the best of my knowledge only Prince Amukamara, Justin Pugh and Jonathan Hankins are the only players left in the NFL on any roster from the 2011 - 2013 drafts.
Why is that damning? There's a ton of career-ending injuries to their 1st and second round picks.
there is one career ending injury from the 2011 - 2013 drafts that I am aware of, David Wilson.
Hardly seems like "a ton of career-ending injuries to their 1st and second round picks"
In fact much of the core of 2011 was still the same players.
You can't really give Reese too much credit for those SBs.
Whereas Coughlin and Manning did their jobs...