He can't really be cut this year so play 2018, teach whoever is behind him, and then move on. I think that's the play regardless of "win now" vs. "rebuild".
They can't trade Eli. He has a no trade clause. If they cut him next year they'll save like 17 million in cap space. Which is definitely the best case scenario. This isn't a 1 year thing. It's going to take this year and next year.
Draft a QB. Build around the QB, Odell, Shepard, Engram, Solder, Snacks, Vernon, Ogletree, Jackrabbit & Collins. It's a good core. Plus a ton of money in cap space in 2019 & 2020.
JPP trade sealed it for me. Too many holes to fill in one year, and trying sometimes too fill so many holes with limited resources makes the situation worse not better.
the only thing I found really questionable and semi-inconsistent was the Jonathan Stewart signing.
but his deal is really a one-year deal with a team option, he can be cut after this year with zero pain.
and although it looks like a rebuild, the Giants will still look to be competitive next year. Let's face it, all teams want to be competitive year in and year out. Season ticket holders and Fans paying to see the Giants will want to see a competitive team on the field. I don't think there's such a thing as total rebuild anymore. This is not the NBA where teams tank to get better draft picks, that's not going to cut it in this League. With that said, however, the Giants still have some very good pieces as a foundation to this team. I see depth as one of our biggest issues right now. We are paper thin after the starters.
They can't trade Eli. He has a no trade clause. If they cut him next year they'll save like 17 million in cap space. Which is definitely the best case scenario. This isn't a 1 year thing. It's going to take this year and next year.
Draft a QB. Build around the QB, Odell, Shepard, Engram, Solder, Snacks, Vernon, Ogletree, Jackrabbit & Collins. It's a good core. Plus a ton of money in cap space in 2019 & 2020.
I understand. But would Eli accept a trade if he knows the Giants are being gutted around him?
It's probably a moot point anyway. The time to find a partner for Eli was in February. Most "contenting" teams that needed a QB have their stopgap solution already.
He can't really be cut this year so play 2018, teach whoever is behind him, and then move on. I think that's the play regardless of "win now" vs. "rebuild".
Is he really gonna be content being a teacher/placeholder? i seem to recall him saying that was not the case?
Just don't think it's even a possibility. They want the new QB to learn behind Eli. Plus the dead money would be way too much for a guy who isn't on the roster.
This is a GM speculating based on their dealing JPP. Not saying its not true, but this is someone not directly connected to the team inferring as anyone else would.
This is a GM speculating based on their dealing JPP. Not saying its not true, but this is someone not directly connected to the team inferring as anyone else would.
Thank you! People need to filter out the BS a little better.
... when they shipped McAdoo, Reese, and Ross out on a rail. DG is cleaning up the mess. They will have a better team in 2018. Why spend big on a 30 y/o Solder if it’s a tear down? Why trade for Ogletree? If a total tear down, why not trade Beckham?
... when they shipped McAdoo, Reese, and Ross out on a rail. DG is cleaning up the mess. They will have a better team in 2018. Why spend big on a 30 y/o Solder if it’s a tear down? Why trade for Ogletree? If a total tear down, why not trade Beckham?
Exactly, a lot more moves would have been made. Far from a tear down.
He can't really be cut this year so play 2018, teach whoever is behind him, and then move on. I think that's the play regardless of "win now" vs. "rebuild".
Is he really gonna be content being a teacher/placeholder? i seem to recall him saying that was not the case?
It doesn’t really matter at this point. If Eli doesn’t want to take Webb or the #2 pick under his wing that’s fine, but I don’t see Eli being on the 2019 roster. He’s here now because he can’t really be cut, will still take he high road with young guy/s begins him, and can still command a competent offense.
My sense is that Gettleman will act pretty much the same way, going forward into 2019 and beyond, as he is in 2018. I think we are mostly seeing "standard" Gettleman this offseason.
I think some moves might be considered exceptions to "standard" Gettleman. Those exceptions are centered around the desire to change the locker room culture. The Stewart signing is the prime example. The Giants have two young running backs, Gallman and Perkins, who might have a good future in the NFL. Stewart comes in and will be a leader and a mentor. He will bring toughness and professionalism to the team. The contract is too high for what he brings to the field, but Gettleman spends the money, because he needs Stewart's intangibles.
Once the desired culture is established, I think we will see Gettleman do pretty much what he is doing this offseason. He won't need to pay extra for intangibles any longer.
He showed at Carolina, and thus far here at Giants, that he is going to jettison players/contracts that he believes are counterproductive. No sentimentality. He's tough, he's hardcore.
The Giants are in rebuild mode, but they aren't going to do it until next year? The idea itself is completely laughable. What happens if the team goes 12-4? Are they going to tear it down then? The NFL executive he spoke with is apparently too stupid to recognize a cap dump of a player who is not well-suited to fit into what appears to be a scheme change on defense. Sure, we don't get a great deal of cap relief this year, but next year we will.
The Giants are in rebuild mode, but they aren't going to do it until next year? The idea itself is completely laughable. What happens if the team goes 12-4? Are they going to tear it down then? The NFL executive he spoke with is apparently too stupid to recognize a cap dump of a player who is not well-suited to fit into what appears to be a scheme change on defense. Sure, we don't get a great deal of cap relief this year, but next year we will.
Huh? They are doing it right now. It's going to continue next year. JPP, DRC, Harris, Vereen, Pugh, Richburg, Wing, Darkwa, Kennard, Robinson, Casillas are all gone.
The Giants are in rebuild mode, but they aren't going to do it until next year? The idea itself is completely laughable. What happens if the team goes 12-4? Are they going to tear it down then? The NFL executive he spoke with is apparently too stupid to recognize a cap dump of a player who is not well-suited to fit into what appears to be a scheme change on defense. Sure, we don't get a great deal of cap relief this year, but next year we will.
Huh. Who said they will begin rebuild next year? I saw one poster ask where Eli fits into the rebuild and someone respond that Eli's situation would come into play next year, but no one has said they aren't going to rebuild until next year.
You don't overpay for Solder and keep Eli if you are in rebuild mode.
Solder is the key. Explain why you'd so vastly overpay for Solder if you are rebuilding?
Though i would like the idea of rebuilding and then taking the QB.
Eli has a no trade clause. Soldier was NOT their first choice. He was the fall back option after their top guy got away and he was the top remaining Oline at the time. They are serious about rebuilding the line, but that doesn't mean they don't believe this team needs an overhaul. How many players have they cut, traded, or neglected to resign? Plenty so far, and I doubt they're done. And it may not all happen this year.
we are a THREE WIN TEAM that has had a piss poor offense for the past few years. If we are not making major changes, then how does anyone think we can compete next year?
If the goal is to win a championship then yeah we have to rebuild. We also have so many holes that I do not see us getting the rest of the team fixed in time for Eli to win another championship here.
They’re in rebuild mode... they had a shit season. They have a new coaching staff. The defense needs to be retooled for the new scheme. But make no mistake, there are no allowances for throwing away multiple seasons in this league. Each year there is pressure to do well regardless of what changes take place.
Solder is a veteran LT who will come in and hopefully anchor the position for the next 5 years. The value of that is tremendous and if he performs well he is worth the price.
1. If you think there's a franchise caliber QB at 2. Pick him and don't think twice
2. If you don't, then forget the shiny high pick prospects, trade back for as many top 65 picks as you can get + as high a pick as you can get next year. Improve as much of the surrounding cast as possible.
Given the general lack of depth in the team and the defensive scheme change, number 2 would normally be my preferred option, as it's far easier for a rookie QB to come in when the team is more settled, BUT a) we've got Eli this year for the transition and b) while it's early days next year's potential QB class isn't exactly screaming "wait a year guys".
You don't overpay for Solder and keep Eli if you are in rebuild mode.
Solder is the key. Explain why you'd so vastly overpay for Solder if you are rebuilding?
Though i would like the idea of rebuilding and then taking the QB.
Eli has a no trade clause. Soldier was NOT their first choice. He was the fall back option after their top guy got away and he was the top remaining Oline at the time. They are serious about rebuilding the line, but that doesn't mean they don't believe this team needs an overhaul. How many players have they cut, traded, or neglected to resign? Plenty so far, and I doubt they're done. And it may not all happen this year.
1-- They could have let Eli go. Then assured they'd stink again.
2-- What difference does it make that Solder "was the fall back position? They SIGNED him. They SIGNED him and GROSSLY overpaid for him. And he's up there in age. He is NOT a "rebuild" signing.
3-- What is your point about how many players have they neglected to sign and how many have they cut from a 3-13 team? Are you saying many of the players deserved to be resigned after such as sparkling 3-13 season?
rebuilding in the NFL isn't like it is in other sports Â
it doesn't have to take multiple seasons unless you're a really crappy franchise (and have no QB). I don't believe we're as bad as our record was last year. The HC was as bad as our record was last year.
I think DG wants to rebuild, of course, but he also wants to win in '18 (not necessarily the SB, but compete for playoffs). He hates to lose and he's no young pup.
Why would he sign a 29-30 yr old LT to highest contract ever if we were totally in rebuild mode?
Why would he sign a 29-30 yr old RB with a lot of wear on his wheels if we were totally in rebuild mode?
Why would he say he's going with a QB who's 37 yrs old...
They signed Solder and PATRICK OMAMEH. You forgot about him? It slipped your mind?
And you are mentioning FLuker as if he would be some big loss that shows the Giants are rebuilding? Fluker? Really? Laughable. He might turn out to be fine but to bring him up in the context of whether we are rebuilding or not - because we let him go -- it just shows how ridiculous one needs to make a desperate point to try to show Giants are more in rebuild mode. Fluker? c'mon.
He's right, if he is talking 2019. Tearing it down for 2018 makes no financial sense for the Giants. Plus Eli has a no trade clause and cutting him is costly.
With every day that goes by, the more convinced I am that Gettleman is a genius at playing this game. First, he has accepted reality. He recognizes he has a viable starter at QB at what has become below market value. And he has him for two more years. There is no logical reason to cut bait with Eli in 2018, and there is an argument you can stick with him through the end of his contract. This gives Gettleman the luxury of time at the games most important position. He doesn't have to rush and make a decision he is not convinced about.
He has also recognized there is little he can do about the cap in 2018, but he can certainly do a lot about it in 2019. In all likelihood the Giants will have between 50-70 million dollars of cap space to work with in 2019, unless they sign Collins or OBJ to long term contracts early.
The reality is Gettleman doesn't have to blow it up much more than he already has. Cutting JPP gave him a lot of options in 2019. But, if Gettleman wants to create a mountain of cap space in 2019, the Giants can cut ties with Eli, Jenkins, and Vernon with minimal financial ramifications. Don't be surprised if Vernon is a candidate for trade in 2019.
A few days before the JPP trade I said that what I believe Gettleman is doing is preparing and crafting a team that will support a transition to a new QB. Unless Cleveland passes on Darnold, which I don't think they will, I don't think Gettleman believes that QB has to be drafted this year. I think Gettleman believes he has two years to play with at the QB position, 2018 and 2019, if he needs to. 2018 is about putting a competent OL in place, transitioning to a new defense, and signing the talent the team wants to keep.
I don't believe Gettleman is as focused on "have to get the QB" as the pundits think he should be. I would assume he fears the David Carr scenario, as much as he fears picking the wrong QB or not having one. Take a talented QB and put him on an incomplete team and you may ruin his progression. It's just as bad as taking the wrong QB, and even worse than not taking one. If Gettleman can fix the OL, keep OBJ, and bring a running game to the offense, then your chances of a young QB having sustained success increase dramatically.
we are a THREE WIN TEAM that has had a piss poor offense for the past few years. If we are not making major changes, then how does anyone think we can compete next year?
If the goal is to win a championship then yeah we have to rebuild. We also have so many holes that I do not see us getting the rest of the team fixed in time for Eli to win another championship here.
Did you forget that the team was built on it's Wide receivers and in particular lost arguably one of the best players in all of football who was a wide receiver and had an awful coach?
Thus 3 win team you mention-- you seriously think DG thinks he can't get in the playoffs with the drafts picks he has along with the signings he has made?
RE: Ahh Schefter, always statements with no context Â
He's right, if he is talking 2019. Tearing it down for 2018 makes no financial sense for the Giants. Plus Eli has a no trade clause and cutting him is costly.
With every day that goes by, the more convinced I am that Gettleman is a genius at playing this game. First, he has accepted reality. He recognizes he has a viable starter at QB at what has become below market value. And he has him for two more years. There is no logical reason to cut bait with Eli in 2018, and there is an argument you can stick with him through the end of his contract. This gives Gettleman the luxury of time at the games most important position. He doesn't have to rush and make a decision he is not convinced about.
He has also recognized there is little he can do about the cap in 2018, but he can certainly do a lot about it in 2019. In all likelihood the Giants will have between 50-70 million dollars of cap space to work with in 2019, unless they sign Collins or OBJ to long term contracts early.
The reality is Gettleman doesn't have to blow it up much more than he already has. Cutting JPP gave him a lot of options in 2019. But, if Gettleman wants to create a mountain of cap space in 2019, the Giants can cut ties with Eli, Jenkins, and Vernon with minimal financial ramifications. Don't be surprised if Vernon is a candidate for trade in 2019.
A few days before the JPP trade I said that what I believe Gettleman is doing is preparing and crafting a team that will support a transition to a new QB. Unless Cleveland passes on Darnold, which I don't think they will, I don't think Gettleman believes that QB has to be drafted this year. I think Gettleman believes he has two years to play with at the QB position, 2018 and 2019, if he needs to. 2018 is about putting a competent OL in place, transitioning to a new defense, and signing the talent the team wants to keep.
I don't believe Gettleman is as focused on "have to get the QB" as the pundits think he should be. I would assume he fears the David Carr scenario, as much as he fears picking the wrong QB or not having one. Take a talented QB and put him on an incomplete team and you may ruin his progression. It's just as bad as taking the wrong QB, and even worse than not taking one. If Gettleman can fix the OL, keep OBJ, and bring a running game to the offense, then your chances of a young QB having sustained success increase dramatically.
Excuse me, I meant trading JPP, not cutting him.
RE: RE: RE: Not in rebuild mode - that's ridiculous Â
You don't overpay for Solder and keep Eli if you are in rebuild mode.
Solder is the key. Explain why you'd so vastly overpay for Solder if you are rebuilding?
Though i would like the idea of rebuilding and then taking the QB.
Eli has a no trade clause. Soldier was NOT their first choice. He was the fall back option after their top guy got away and he was the top remaining Oline at the time. They are serious about rebuilding the line, but that doesn't mean they don't believe this team needs an overhaul. How many players have they cut, traded, or neglected to resign? Plenty so far, and I doubt they're done. And it may not all happen this year.
1-- They could have let Eli go. Then assured they'd stink again.
2-- What difference does it make that Solder "was the fall back position? They SIGNED him. They SIGNED him and GROSSLY overpaid for him. And he's up there in age. He is NOT a "rebuild" signing.
3-- What is your point about how many players have they neglected to sign and how many have they cut from a 3-13 team? Are you saying many of the players deserved to be resigned after such as sparkling 3-13 season?
Solder is probably the most necessary component for a rebuild. You never want your young qb to be without a good left tackle, so when Rosen takes over in 19, he will now have one. It is silly to have a young qb without blindside protection if you want your qb to not only succeed, but to say alive.
Rebuild, remake, retool...whatever...call it what you will, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that a team that won three games last year is going to experience some radical changes, beginning with a new GM and HC. Did anyone think they were hired to "stay the course?"
They signed Solder and PATRICK OMAMEH. You forgot about him? It slipped your mind?
And you are mentioning FLuker as if he would be some big loss that shows the Giants are rebuilding? Fluker? Really? Laughable. He might turn out to be fine but to bring him up in the context of whether we are rebuilding or not - because we let him go -- it just shows how ridiculous one needs to make a desperate point to try to show Giants are more in rebuild mode. Fluker? c'mon.
Are you serious? What doe rebuilding mean to you? Brining in new people is not something you would do if you were rebuilding? Is this bizzaro would or what. The point is there has been a lot of roster turnover. This could be a sign of rebuilding the roster, no? Is that really hard to grasp?
Rebuild, remake, retool...whatever...call it what you will, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that a team that won three games last year is going to experience some radical changes, beginning with a new GM and HC. Did anyone think they were hired to "stay the course?"
The reason why this place had become a joke over the last six years is because we did "stay the course," and our owner was unable to make the hard choices that was necessary for success. So, instead we had a year by year piecemeal dismantling of a once successful regime that had completely ran its course. That Mara tried to heal that by making about one big change a year, completely screwed the franchise and Eli. Imagine how different things would be if Mara made the wholesale change after 2013 or 2014? That he fired Gilbride in 2013, Coughlin in 2015 and Reese in 2017 is the reason why we are in the position we are in now. No more half-measures and I hope that is the lesson Mara learned from the last six seasons.
I guess it depends on your definition of "rebuild".
Letting 3 oft injured underperforming OL go and be overpaid somewhere else doesn't mean anything re. whether we're rebuilding or not.
They let a lot of guys go. Here is over 30% of the roster: JPP, DRC, Vereen, Pugh, K Robinson, Fluker, Castillas, Richburg, Cockrell, Dawkwa, Sheppard, Ayers, Bromley, T King, Berhe, Kennard
He can't really be cut this year so play 2018, teach whoever is behind him, and then move on. I think that's the play regardless of "win now" vs. "rebuild".
Is he really gonna be content being a teacher/placeholder? i seem to recall him saying that was not the case?
If he feels any discontent he can just take a look at his massive paycheck. I'm sure he will be fine.
Tearing it down means everyone of value goes, expensive contracts are flushed, you're stripping the roster to bare bones and starting over.
They're not doing all the above right now, much of it is underway but the big pieces remain for next offeason, eg, Eli, OV, and so on are able to be removed from the books if they choose.
I don't know how anyone looks at the moves so far and declares a full rebuild takes less than 2-3 offseasons to complete.
Keeping Eli, signing Solder, moving out JPP and re-working the defense all demonstrates they're not going full rebuild right now. They're still trying to field the best team they can in 2018, with an eye towards making moves that rip up more of the foundation in 2019.
This gives Gettleman the luxury of time at the games most important position. He doesn't have to rush and make a decision he is not convinced about.
In all likelihood the Giants will have between 50-70 million dollars of cap space to work with in 2019, unless they sign Collins or OBJ to long term contracts early.
A few days before the JPP trade I said that what I believe Gettleman is doing is preparing and crafting a team that will support a transition to a new QB. Unless Cleveland passes on Darnold, which I don't think they will, I don't think Gettleman believes that QB has to be drafted this year. I think Gettleman believes he has two years to play with at the QB position, 2018 and 2019, if he needs to. 2018 is about putting a competent OL in place, transitioning to a new defense, and signing the talent the team wants to keep.
I don't believe Gettleman is as focused on "have to get the QB" as the pundits think he should be. I would assume he fears the David Carr scenario, as much as he fears picking the wrong QB or not having one. Take a talented QB and put him on an incomplete team and you may ruin his progression. It's just as bad as taking the wrong QB, and even worse than not taking one. If Gettleman can fix the OL, keep OBJ, and bring a running game to the offense, then your chances of a young QB having sustained success increase dramatically.
And if he is under the belief that he doesn't "need" the QB -- he had better be certain he can get one. Philly is a long term powerhouse. Cowboys still look strong. You mess up not getting a good QB - chances are you will fail.
And a final point. If the Giants have a ton of cap money in 2019 along with if they draft a pretty good offensive lineman in 2018, wouldn't DG have to be terribly incompetent if his offensive line wasn't any good, EVEN IF HE SIGNED A QB WITH THE 1ST PICK THIS YEAR?
DG can have a ton of cap space next year and he has good draft pick availability this year. If ever there were a team to set up a young QB for the future- it would be currently a team like the Giants.
It makes little sense to NOT take the QB unless they really don't like who it is that becomes/will likely become available or they love Webb. This team is setup to be built for a young QB for a long time in the future. This upcoming year they are just 1 OL away from being at worst "decent." With OBJ the O-Line nor the QB NEEDS to be top tier.
I guess it depends on your definition of "rebuild".
Letting 3 oft injured underperforming OL go and be overpaid somewhere else doesn't mean anything re. whether we're rebuilding or not.
They let a lot of guys go. Here is over 30% of the roster: JPP, DRC, Vereen, Pugh, K Robinson, Fluker, Castillas, Richburg, Cockrell, Dawkwa, Sheppard, Ayers, Bromley, T King, Berhe, Kennard
However, I still think we could be competitive and eek out a 9 - 7 type season IF we get the "right schedule - easier early"; stay healthy in camp and early - injuries will happen but we need continuity early"; and, we draft well and our UFA's (kept & signed) turn out to be quality players. Lots of BIG IF's.
Now, I would not be shocked if in 2019, the Giants cut all big contracts and put rookies & 2nd year players (2018 draft types) & 3rd year players into the starting roles.
Bye-bye to Eli (gulp); Vernon (contract); Rabbit at CB (contract); and, OBJ walks in UFA as we decide not to tag him - we'd easily land a #3 draft pick for him. OBJ only walks if his attitude merits a walk OR his play goes down due to injury & such.
He can't really be cut this year so play 2018, teach whoever is behind him, and then move on. I think that's the play regardless of "win now" vs. "rebuild".
Draft a QB. Build around the QB, Odell, Shepard, Engram, Solder, Snacks, Vernon, Ogletree, Jackrabbit & Collins. It's a good core. Plus a ton of money in cap space in 2019 & 2020.
JPP trade sealed it for me. Too many holes to fill in one year, and trying sometimes too fill so many holes with limited resources makes the situation worse not better.
the only thing I found really questionable and semi-inconsistent was the Jonathan Stewart signing.
but his deal is really a one-year deal with a team option, he can be cut after this year with zero pain.
Draft a QB. Build around the QB, Odell, Shepard, Engram, Solder, Snacks, Vernon, Ogletree, Jackrabbit & Collins. It's a good core. Plus a ton of money in cap space in 2019 & 2020.
I understand. But would Eli accept a trade if he knows the Giants are being gutted around him?
It's probably a moot point anyway. The time to find a partner for Eli was in February. Most "contenting" teams that needed a QB have their stopgap solution already.
JonC is right above. It's geared towards 2019.
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Eli figure in this rebuild/tear it down strategy?
He can't really be cut this year so play 2018, teach whoever is behind him, and then move on. I think that's the play regardless of "win now" vs. "rebuild".
Is he really gonna be content being a teacher/placeholder? i seem to recall him saying that was not the case?
Thank you! People need to filter out the BS a little better.
Exactly, a lot more moves would have been made. Far from a tear down.
...did not fully measure the true value of JPP to this team, and he still has visions of a younger JPP.
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In comment 13881860 UESBLUE said:
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Eli figure in this rebuild/tear it down strategy?
He can't really be cut this year so play 2018, teach whoever is behind him, and then move on. I think that's the play regardless of "win now" vs. "rebuild".
Is he really gonna be content being a teacher/placeholder? i seem to recall him saying that was not the case?
It doesn’t really matter at this point. If Eli doesn’t want to take Webb or the #2 pick under his wing that’s fine, but I don’t see Eli being on the 2019 roster. He’s here now because he can’t really be cut, will still take he high road with young guy/s begins him, and can still command a competent offense.
I think some moves might be considered exceptions to "standard" Gettleman. Those exceptions are centered around the desire to change the locker room culture. The Stewart signing is the prime example. The Giants have two young running backs, Gallman and Perkins, who might have a good future in the NFL. Stewart comes in and will be a leader and a mentor. He will bring toughness and professionalism to the team. The contract is too high for what he brings to the field, but Gettleman spends the money, because he needs Stewart's intangibles.
Once the desired culture is established, I think we will see Gettleman do pretty much what he is doing this offseason. He won't need to pay extra for intangibles any longer.
He showed at Carolina, and thus far here at Giants, that he is going to jettison players/contracts that he believes are counterproductive. No sentimentality. He's tough, he's hardcore.
This is a "no scholarship" regime in place now.
Huh? They are doing it right now. It's going to continue next year. JPP, DRC, Harris, Vereen, Pugh, Richburg, Wing, Darkwa, Kennard, Robinson, Casillas are all gone.
2-- They overpaid for Solder
You don't overpay for Solder and keep Eli if you are in rebuild mode.
Solder is the key. Explain why you'd so vastly overpay for Solder if you are rebuilding?
Though i would like the idea of rebuilding and then taking the QB.
2-- They overpaid for Solder
You don't overpay for Solder and keep Eli if you are in rebuild mode.
Solder is the key. Explain why you'd so vastly overpay for Solder if you are rebuilding?
Though i would like the idea of rebuilding and then taking the QB.
If the goal is to win a championship then yeah we have to rebuild. We also have so many holes that I do not see us getting the rest of the team fixed in time for Eli to win another championship here.
Solder is a veteran LT who will come in and hopefully anchor the position for the next 5 years. The value of that is tremendous and if he performs well he is worth the price.
2. If you don't, then forget the shiny high pick prospects, trade back for as many top 65 picks as you can get + as high a pick as you can get next year. Improve as much of the surrounding cast as possible.
Given the general lack of depth in the team and the defensive scheme change, number 2 would normally be my preferred option, as it's far easier for a rookie QB to come in when the team is more settled, BUT a) we've got Eli this year for the transition and b) while it's early days next year's potential QB class isn't exactly screaming "wait a year guys".
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1--- They kept Eli
2-- They overpaid for Solder
You don't overpay for Solder and keep Eli if you are in rebuild mode.
Solder is the key. Explain why you'd so vastly overpay for Solder if you are rebuilding?
Though i would like the idea of rebuilding and then taking the QB.
Eli has a no trade clause. Soldier was NOT their first choice. He was the fall back option after their top guy got away and he was the top remaining Oline at the time. They are serious about rebuilding the line, but that doesn't mean they don't believe this team needs an overhaul. How many players have they cut, traded, or neglected to resign? Plenty so far, and I doubt they're done. And it may not all happen this year.
1-- They could have let Eli go. Then assured they'd stink again.
2-- What difference does it make that Solder "was the fall back position? They SIGNED him. They SIGNED him and GROSSLY overpaid for him. And he's up there in age. He is NOT a "rebuild" signing.
3-- What is your point about how many players have they neglected to sign and how many have they cut from a 3-13 team? Are you saying many of the players deserved to be resigned after such as sparkling 3-13 season?
I think DG wants to rebuild, of course, but he also wants to win in '18 (not necessarily the SB, but compete for playoffs). He hates to lose and he's no young pup.
Why would he sign a 29-30 yr old LT to highest contract ever if we were totally in rebuild mode?
Why would he sign a 29-30 yr old RB with a lot of wear on his wheels if we were totally in rebuild mode?
Why would he say he's going with a QB who's 37 yrs old...
They signed Solder and PATRICK OMAMEH. You forgot about him? It slipped your mind?
And you are mentioning FLuker as if he would be some big loss that shows the Giants are rebuilding? Fluker? Really? Laughable. He might turn out to be fine but to bring him up in the context of whether we are rebuilding or not - because we let him go -- it just shows how ridiculous one needs to make a desperate point to try to show Giants are more in rebuild mode. Fluker? c'mon.
I guess it depends on your definition of "rebuild".
Letting 3 oft injured underperforming OL go and be overpaid somewhere else doesn't mean anything re. whether we're rebuilding or not.
With every day that goes by, the more convinced I am that Gettleman is a genius at playing this game. First, he has accepted reality. He recognizes he has a viable starter at QB at what has become below market value. And he has him for two more years. There is no logical reason to cut bait with Eli in 2018, and there is an argument you can stick with him through the end of his contract. This gives Gettleman the luxury of time at the games most important position. He doesn't have to rush and make a decision he is not convinced about.
He has also recognized there is little he can do about the cap in 2018, but he can certainly do a lot about it in 2019. In all likelihood the Giants will have between 50-70 million dollars of cap space to work with in 2019, unless they sign Collins or OBJ to long term contracts early.
The reality is Gettleman doesn't have to blow it up much more than he already has. Cutting JPP gave him a lot of options in 2019. But, if Gettleman wants to create a mountain of cap space in 2019, the Giants can cut ties with Eli, Jenkins, and Vernon with minimal financial ramifications. Don't be surprised if Vernon is a candidate for trade in 2019.
A few days before the JPP trade I said that what I believe Gettleman is doing is preparing and crafting a team that will support a transition to a new QB. Unless Cleveland passes on Darnold, which I don't think they will, I don't think Gettleman believes that QB has to be drafted this year. I think Gettleman believes he has two years to play with at the QB position, 2018 and 2019, if he needs to. 2018 is about putting a competent OL in place, transitioning to a new defense, and signing the talent the team wants to keep.
I don't believe Gettleman is as focused on "have to get the QB" as the pundits think he should be. I would assume he fears the David Carr scenario, as much as he fears picking the wrong QB or not having one. Take a talented QB and put him on an incomplete team and you may ruin his progression. It's just as bad as taking the wrong QB, and even worse than not taking one. If Gettleman can fix the OL, keep OBJ, and bring a running game to the offense, then your chances of a young QB having sustained success increase dramatically.
If the goal is to win a championship then yeah we have to rebuild. We also have so many holes that I do not see us getting the rest of the team fixed in time for Eli to win another championship here.
Did you forget that the team was built on it's Wide receivers and in particular lost arguably one of the best players in all of football who was a wide receiver and had an awful coach?
Thus 3 win team you mention-- you seriously think DG thinks he can't get in the playoffs with the drafts picks he has along with the signings he has made?
With every day that goes by, the more convinced I am that Gettleman is a genius at playing this game. First, he has accepted reality. He recognizes he has a viable starter at QB at what has become below market value. And he has him for two more years. There is no logical reason to cut bait with Eli in 2018, and there is an argument you can stick with him through the end of his contract. This gives Gettleman the luxury of time at the games most important position. He doesn't have to rush and make a decision he is not convinced about.
He has also recognized there is little he can do about the cap in 2018, but he can certainly do a lot about it in 2019. In all likelihood the Giants will have between 50-70 million dollars of cap space to work with in 2019, unless they sign Collins or OBJ to long term contracts early.
The reality is Gettleman doesn't have to blow it up much more than he already has. Cutting JPP gave him a lot of options in 2019. But, if Gettleman wants to create a mountain of cap space in 2019, the Giants can cut ties with Eli, Jenkins, and Vernon with minimal financial ramifications. Don't be surprised if Vernon is a candidate for trade in 2019.
A few days before the JPP trade I said that what I believe Gettleman is doing is preparing and crafting a team that will support a transition to a new QB. Unless Cleveland passes on Darnold, which I don't think they will, I don't think Gettleman believes that QB has to be drafted this year. I think Gettleman believes he has two years to play with at the QB position, 2018 and 2019, if he needs to. 2018 is about putting a competent OL in place, transitioning to a new defense, and signing the talent the team wants to keep.
I don't believe Gettleman is as focused on "have to get the QB" as the pundits think he should be. I would assume he fears the David Carr scenario, as much as he fears picking the wrong QB or not having one. Take a talented QB and put him on an incomplete team and you may ruin his progression. It's just as bad as taking the wrong QB, and even worse than not taking one. If Gettleman can fix the OL, keep OBJ, and bring a running game to the offense, then your chances of a young QB having sustained success increase dramatically.
Excuse me, I meant trading JPP, not cutting him.
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In comment 13882062 giantstock said:
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1--- They kept Eli
2-- They overpaid for Solder
You don't overpay for Solder and keep Eli if you are in rebuild mode.
Solder is the key. Explain why you'd so vastly overpay for Solder if you are rebuilding?
Though i would like the idea of rebuilding and then taking the QB.
Eli has a no trade clause. Soldier was NOT their first choice. He was the fall back option after their top guy got away and he was the top remaining Oline at the time. They are serious about rebuilding the line, but that doesn't mean they don't believe this team needs an overhaul. How many players have they cut, traded, or neglected to resign? Plenty so far, and I doubt they're done. And it may not all happen this year.
1-- They could have let Eli go. Then assured they'd stink again.
2-- What difference does it make that Solder "was the fall back position? They SIGNED him. They SIGNED him and GROSSLY overpaid for him. And he's up there in age. He is NOT a "rebuild" signing.
3-- What is your point about how many players have they neglected to sign and how many have they cut from a 3-13 team? Are you saying many of the players deserved to be resigned after such as sparkling 3-13 season?
Solder is probably the most necessary component for a rebuild. You never want your young qb to be without a good left tackle, so when Rosen takes over in 19, he will now have one. It is silly to have a young qb without blindside protection if you want your qb to not only succeed, but to say alive.
Rebuild, remake, retool...whatever...call it what you will, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that a team that won three games last year is going to experience some radical changes, beginning with a new GM and HC. Did anyone think they were hired to "stay the course?"
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and let Pugh, Richburg, and Fluker all walk.
They signed Solder and PATRICK OMAMEH. You forgot about him? It slipped your mind?
And you are mentioning FLuker as if he would be some big loss that shows the Giants are rebuilding? Fluker? Really? Laughable. He might turn out to be fine but to bring him up in the context of whether we are rebuilding or not - because we let him go -- it just shows how ridiculous one needs to make a desperate point to try to show Giants are more in rebuild mode. Fluker? c'mon.
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Just words...
Rebuild, remake, retool...whatever...call it what you will, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that a team that won three games last year is going to experience some radical changes, beginning with a new GM and HC. Did anyone think they were hired to "stay the course?"
The reason why this place had become a joke over the last six years is because we did "stay the course," and our owner was unable to make the hard choices that was necessary for success. So, instead we had a year by year piecemeal dismantling of a once successful regime that had completely ran its course. That Mara tried to heal that by making about one big change a year, completely screwed the franchise and Eli. Imagine how different things would be if Mara made the wholesale change after 2013 or 2014? That he fired Gilbride in 2013, Coughlin in 2015 and Reese in 2017 is the reason why we are in the position we are in now. No more half-measures and I hope that is the lesson Mara learned from the last six seasons.
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and let Pugh, Richburg, and Fluker all walk.
I guess it depends on your definition of "rebuild".
Letting 3 oft injured underperforming OL go and be overpaid somewhere else doesn't mean anything re. whether we're rebuilding or not.
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In comment 13881860 UESBLUE said:
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Eli figure in this rebuild/tear it down strategy?
He can't really be cut this year so play 2018, teach whoever is behind him, and then move on. I think that's the play regardless of "win now" vs. "rebuild".
Is he really gonna be content being a teacher/placeholder? i seem to recall him saying that was not the case?
If he feels any discontent he can just take a look at his massive paycheck. I'm sure he will be fine.
They're not doing all the above right now, much of it is underway but the big pieces remain for next offeason, eg, Eli, OV, and so on are able to be removed from the books if they choose.
I don't know how anyone looks at the moves so far and declares a full rebuild takes less than 2-3 offseasons to complete.
This gives Gettleman the luxury of time at the games most important position. He doesn't have to rush and make a decision he is not convinced about.
In all likelihood the Giants will have between 50-70 million dollars of cap space to work with in 2019, unless they sign Collins or OBJ to long term contracts early.
A few days before the JPP trade I said that what I believe Gettleman is doing is preparing and crafting a team that will support a transition to a new QB. Unless Cleveland passes on Darnold, which I don't think they will, I don't think Gettleman believes that QB has to be drafted this year. I think Gettleman believes he has two years to play with at the QB position, 2018 and 2019, if he needs to. 2018 is about putting a competent OL in place, transitioning to a new defense, and signing the talent the team wants to keep.
I don't believe Gettleman is as focused on "have to get the QB" as the pundits think he should be. I would assume he fears the David Carr scenario, as much as he fears picking the wrong QB or not having one. Take a talented QB and put him on an incomplete team and you may ruin his progression. It's just as bad as taking the wrong QB, and even worse than not taking one. If Gettleman can fix the OL, keep OBJ, and bring a running game to the offense, then your chances of a young QB having sustained success increase dramatically.
And if he is under the belief that he doesn't "need" the QB -- he had better be certain he can get one. Philly is a long term powerhouse. Cowboys still look strong. You mess up not getting a good QB - chances are you will fail.
And a final point. If the Giants have a ton of cap money in 2019 along with if they draft a pretty good offensive lineman in 2018, wouldn't DG have to be terribly incompetent if his offensive line wasn't any good, EVEN IF HE SIGNED A QB WITH THE 1ST PICK THIS YEAR?
DG can have a ton of cap space next year and he has good draft pick availability this year. If ever there were a team to set up a young QB for the future- it would be currently a team like the Giants.
It makes little sense to NOT take the QB unless they really don't like who it is that becomes/will likely become available or they love Webb. This team is setup to be built for a young QB for a long time in the future. This upcoming year they are just 1 OL away from being at worst "decent." With OBJ the O-Line nor the QB NEEDS to be top tier.
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In comment 13882088 UberAlias said:
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and let Pugh, Richburg, and Fluker all walk.
I guess it depends on your definition of "rebuild".
Letting 3 oft injured underperforming OL go and be overpaid somewhere else doesn't mean anything re. whether we're rebuilding or not.
They let a lot of guys go. Here is over 30% of the roster: JPP, DRC, Vereen, Pugh, K Robinson, Fluker, Castillas, Richburg, Cockrell, Dawkwa, Sheppard, Ayers, Bromley, T King, Berhe, Kennard
On a 3-13 team. So what's your point?
Now, I would not be shocked if in 2019, the Giants cut all big contracts and put rookies & 2nd year players (2018 draft types) & 3rd year players into the starting roles.
Bye-bye to Eli (gulp); Vernon (contract); Rabbit at CB (contract); and, OBJ walks in UFA as we decide not to tag him - we'd easily land a #3 draft pick for him. OBJ only walks if his attitude merits a walk OR his play goes down due to injury & such.