funniest line: "Over the next two offseasons, Gettleman will likely dismantle nearly all of Jerry Reese’s drafts and finds from free agency. "
Dismantle what?
Dave Gettleman Keeping an Eye on the Future Amid Balanced Rebuild With Jason Pierre-Paul Trade - (
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Since February 2012...
We have fired TWO head coaches, including a likely HOFer, and one coach a month before the season ended.
A franchise that hasn't fired a GM in decades did so before the season was out.
Benched Eli Manning for Geno Smith.
Have three players remaining from nine consecutive drafts, ending in 2015.
Drafted Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple with top 10 draft picks.
Compiled a 42-54 record with three third place finishes in the NFC East and one last place finish.
Are 3-9 against the Eagles. 4-8 against Dallas.
Have become one of those teams that signs players for $62M one season and cuts the player the next.
******
If you're looking for blind cheerleader, you're not going to get it from me.
Not being a sky-is-falling-pessimist doesn't make you a blind cheerleader. There's a lot in between.
Gettleman's trying to build a new team, and you do that through the draft. Homegrown players who do things the Giants way & the fans can invest in.
2016 was THE year that Reece and every nieve Giants fan was banking on for that one last run - it happened.
Time to start over.
(2) I never said this 2017 team won't be competitive. I have not made that determination yet. It's too early.
(3) If you think the only problem with this team last year was coaching and injuries, then you must think Gettleman is doing a horrible job. Because he's gutting much of the team.
Eli Apple was a disaster on and off the field. The fact that vets like DRC and JJ were having issues suggested a cultural problem that went deep.
JR did very well at first, but his inability to provide a competent OL for several years really buried this team. Standing more or less pat last year was the final straw. After that, the parade of injuries, esp at WR just sent the season into a tailspin.
Gettleman is doing the right thing - clear out guys who are paid a lot but production has been limited. JR did the same thing at first. But once the guys become your picks it gets harder to see the misses and cut bait, I think.
Before this 6 year abomination, I prided myself on watching every minute of every game. There were a number of times during this era where I turned them off for a better game, because they were agitating and boring.
This is mainly why I want a QB #1. I love Eli and have always been an Eli guy. I did not want his streak snapped under any other circumstance besides injury. That being said, it's time to set up this next era of football. The best way to get you a title is to hit on the QB. I'm betting at least 2 of these 4 QB's become a championship caliber QB. Get the QB pick right and push the re-build forward.
Maybe he'll fair better for the Bucs?
The real mistakes that have left this team looking like a stripped Thanksgiving Turkey have been made by Reese and his personnel staff. Draft and free agency mistakes. Resigning guys who should not have gotten a second contract. Not resigning guys they should.
In retrospect, did the real problems start when Gettleman left? What if Reese had been asked to leave instead?
I agree.
Teams that suck are unlikeable. Teams that had pretty high expectations and then suck are extremely unlikeable. Were there many crappy Giants teams that gave you the warm and fuzzies?
Regardless, those saying we were a Super Bowl contender last July were wrong. Why should we believe them when they say the organization is a joke and they won't compete this year???
With good coaching and health, last years team would have competed, just like they did in 2016. Fact is this team hasn't been well coached in a while - hopefully Shumer is the answer and they experience league average injuries.
Nice post. Many conveniently forget how much praise this team was getting from just about everyone prior to last season. I know now there is going to be someone who said 'Not me! I knew they were going to suck!' but that one person will not acknowledge that they were in the extreme minority if that was their stance last year.
Character counts....leadership matters.
OBJ is a talent and appears ready to have a HUGE season if healthy; however, is he worth tagging? That remains to be seen.
You can argue players and contribution and worth and scheme all day long but you can not tell someone how to feel, you just can't.
It's amazing how fast the fall was and how far they fell.
Games 3 and 4 were such tough losses but I was NOT feeling it with McAdoo, Reese and the players.
The real mistakes that have left this team looking like a stripped Thanksgiving Turkey have been made by Reese and his personnel staff. Draft and free agency mistakes. Resigning guys who should not have gotten a second contract. Not resigning guys they should.
In retrospect, did the real problems start when Gettleman left? What if Reese had been asked to leave instead?
Coughlin was the only guy I would have kept. The fact that our drafting was abysmal is what our problems are founded on. We have no players from the 2008-2013 drafts on the roster......NONE! Some of that is player development but most of it is poor drafting. Loose lips in the front office and getting beat out of Conklin and Floyd is just an example of how pathetic our front office was run. Clint Sintim in the 2nd round, Flowers and Apple in round 1 and top 10 is mind numbing.
The defensive spending spree of 2016 was an attempt to make a run and cover the zits of the poor drafting. It almost worked.
Gettlemen is doing a good job of rebuilding the roster and hopefully the culture. Attitude is such a key component in great teams and to be honest our attitude plain sucked balls last year.
I am not sure which way the Giants will go with the 1st round pick this year but I can bet it will a guy who eats, sleeps and breathes football and somebody with very high character...because character matters.
It's amazing how fast the fall was and how far they fell.
In retrospect, however, the fall after the 2011 season should have been easy to see coming.
* Great Oline had become old and needed to be replaced (which Reese failed to do).
* Tuck, Canty, Ross, Webster, Phillips all needed to be replaced due to age/injury/contract $.
*Jacobs & Bradshaw aged fast...Nicks got injured.
Combine all that with Reese's inability to re-stock the roster, and you have a quick slide into mediocrity.
Now we have passed Manning's prime years and we have to re-build.
Time to insure this team's future by getting a QB, anything else will be a continuance of the slide for years (e.g. Cleveland Browns).
There needed to be a lot more than just tweaks made to this team, don't get me wrong. And DG seems to be doing that. But 1 dumpster fire season does not make the franchise a dumpster fire.
I liken our current situation to the Giants after 1983. Very similar circumstances: underachieving defense, disastrous offense, plenty of grumbling about players who quit and coaches who had lost the team. After housecleaning and a new approach, they began a run. Not saying this team will be of that quality, but the potential for a turnaround is there.
It's amazing how fast the fall was and how far they fell.
The Yankees were not "likable" just a few short years ago. Now they are the complete opposite. Hopefully DG and the Giants will have a similar turn around.
I'm not sure how things work at your job - but if I quit on my workmates in the middle of an important assignment or did something egregious enough that the head boss has to tell them, we are better off without you being here - I would not be liked either.
For one, I didn't find JPP, OV, DRC, or jackrabbit hard to root for. JPP's production was disappointing. OV played an inordinate amount of snaps, played hurt, and played well. It's hard to know what transpired between DRC, Jenkins and McAdoo but the players were easier to root for than the coach. And Apple obviously has/had personal issues that affected his play and his standing in the locker room. So, yeah, it was hard to root for him but it certainly seems warranted to see if he can get his head back.
Looking back, that 2012 SB win bought Reese an incredible amount of job security. It almost bordered on a lifetime appointment akin to being a US Supreme Court Justice...
Concurrently, Mara couldn't see the writing on the wall with Coughlin. So he let that issue linger on a few years past TC's expiration date...
Mara is a mediocre football owner. Parcells and Young created football Camelot for an 8 year period from '83 to '91. It's never been close to that since.
Looking back, that 2012 SB win bought Reese an incredible amount of job security. It almost bordered on a lifetime appointment akin to being a US Supreme Court Justice...
Concurrently, Mara couldn't see the writing on the wall with Coughlin. So he let that issue linger on a few years past TC's expiration date...
Mara is a mediocre football owner. Parcells and Young created football Camelot for an 8 year period from '83 to '91. It's never been close to that since.
Setting aside the current mess (which is a mess, no doubt about it), let's not get too rose-colored with the nostalgia here. I love the Young/Parcells days too, but "never been close since"? The Giants got the same number of championships in 2004-2012 that they got in 1983-1991. I'm sure that fact distresses you to no end, but give the devils their due...
Setting aside the current mess (which is a mess, no doubt about it), let's not get too rose-colored with the nostalgia here. I love the Young/Parcells days too, but "never been close since"? The Giants got the same number of championships in 2004-2012 that they got in 1983-1991. I'm sure that fact distresses you to no end, but give the devils their due...
True, but the sustained level of consistency is the differentiation between that era and your time period. It's not even close. That Camelot team was a real force, a threat almost every year. And it was a time when the NFC was Rome....
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Setting aside the current mess (which is a mess, no doubt about it), let's not get too rose-colored with the nostalgia here. I love the Young/Parcells days too, but "never been close since"? The Giants got the same number of championships in 2004-2012 that they got in 1983-1991. I'm sure that fact distresses you to no end, but give the devils their due...
True, but the sustained level of consistency is the differentiation between that era and your time period. It's not even close. That Camelot team was a real force, a threat almost every year. And it was a time when the NFC was Rome....
and you also had the 49ers, Rams and Bears to deal with. And Minny a step below. Good times.
and you also had the 49ers, Rams and Bears to deal with. And Minny a step below. Good times.
And Washington...
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and you also had the 49ers, Rams and Bears to deal with. And Minny a step below. Good times.
And Washington...
yes my mistake, when I replied I had it in my head that you meant NFC East was Rome. Even Philly was tough back then.
One of the great achievements, btw, was Gibbs winning 3 SBs with 3 different QBs in a 9 year span...
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Who won more games in the 1980's than any other team
One of the great achievements, btw, was Gibbs winning 3 SBs with 3 different QBs in a 9 year span...
Yup, that was partly our fault, for beating those QBs within an inch of their lives
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Setting aside the current mess (which is a mess, no doubt about it), let's not get too rose-colored with the nostalgia here. I love the Young/Parcells days too, but "never been close since"? The Giants got the same number of championships in 2004-2012 that they got in 1983-1991. I'm sure that fact distresses you to no end, but give the devils their due...
True, but the sustained level of consistency is the differentiation between that era and your time period. It's not even close. That Camelot team was a real force, a threat almost every year. And it was a time when the NFC was Rome....
One very important thing to note though (and I'm sure you probably have beedub) is that era was also before Free Agency... when it was easier to keep good teams together for longer periods of time. I'm not saying it would've been impossible for that 'team' of management to replicate the same success past '93 and on... but it'd be unlikely just based off of the small amount of teams in today's climate that are perennial contenders.
If you took a breath and reflected on the idea, I'm pretty sure each of us could probably understand having to deal with family-related nonsense.
And people who dislike Jason Pierre-Paul are lacking a certain percent of decency. He's never been anything but a big kid in terms of his attitude and the energy he played with. He had an accident. If that makes him unlikable to you, I'd say you're the weird one.
And the players who passed through here in recent years that probably ARE unlikable seem to fly under the radar. If Jeremy Shockey worked at the desk next to yours, you'd probably hate the guy.
Smart move... find something that about 90% of the site will agree with you on and maybe even begin to start giving you the benefit of the doubt again.
Just to be on the safe side though... you may want to throw something out there like 'The team has sucked for years and it's all Jerry Reaches fault!' or something like that. Post something like that and you're golden!
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And Reese was canned that year instead... 2017 would have been very different.
Smart move... find something that about 90% of the site will agree with you on and maybe even begin to start giving you the benefit of the doubt again.
Just to be on the safe side though... you may want to throw something out there like 'The team has sucked for years and it's all Jerry Reaches fault!' or something like that. Post something like that and you're golden!
... and maybe THEY even begin to start giving you the benefit of the doubt again...
I hate typos.
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In comment 13882599 DieHard said:
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Setting aside the current mess (which is a mess, no doubt about it), let's not get too rose-colored with the nostalgia here. I love the Young/Parcells days too, but "never been close since"? The Giants got the same number of championships in 2004-2012 that they got in 1983-1991. I'm sure that fact distresses you to no end, but give the devils their due...
True, but the sustained level of consistency is the differentiation between that era and your time period. It's not even close. That Camelot team was a real force, a threat almost every year. And it was a time when the NFC was Rome....
One very important thing to note though (and I'm sure you probably have beedub) is that era was also before Free Agency... when it was easier to keep good teams together for longer periods of time. I'm not saying it would've been impossible for that 'team' of management to replicate the same success past '93 and on... but it'd be unlikely just based off of the small amount of teams in today's climate that are perennial contenders.
Yeah, we can split hairs any way we want to. No doubt we had some dominant teams in 1984-1991, but I'd say the recent championship teams made do pretty well without the benefit of Parcells, Belichick and LT, three of the best ever at what they did. (I'd also argue that beating two 13-3 teams and a 18-0 team for a championship like we did in 2007 ain't chopped liver either. Surely a feat any Roman gladiator would approve of!)
I'm not against bias, I'm pretty biased myself about certain things. Just as long as we're aware we have our personal biases. ;-)
One very important thing to note though (and I'm sure you probably have beedub) is that era was also before Free Agency... when it was easier to keep good teams together for longer periods of time. I'm not saying it would've been impossible for that 'team' of management to replicate the same success past '93 and on... but it'd be unlikely just based off of the small amount of teams in today's climate that are perennial contenders.
On the other hand, that made it more challenging back then because of limited player movement, so you had to really come up big in the draft...
It's amazing how fast the fall was and how far they fell.
Even more amazing is how many delusional fans think we are about two puzzle pieces away and are already smelling the playoffs. Same shit every year...
maybe you can see how many games we lost BEFORE those WR injuries happened. We sucked... period. The year before that the offense was ranked 26th and our WRs were healthy.
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If you guys think I'm being a drama queen, so be it. But the facts are the facts...
Since February 2012...
We have fired TWO head coaches, including a likely HOFer, and one coach a month before the season ended.
A franchise that hasn't fired a GM in decades did so before the season was out.
Benched Eli Manning for Geno Smith.
Have three players remaining from nine consecutive drafts, ending in 2015.
Drafted Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple with top 10 draft picks.
Compiled a 42-54 record with three third place finishes in the NFC East and one last place finish.
Are 3-9 against the Eagles. 4-8 against Dallas.
Have become one of those teams that signs players for $62M one season and cuts the player the next.
******
If you're looking for blind cheerleader, you're not going to get it from me.
Not being a sky-is-falling-pessimist doesn't make you a blind cheerleader. There's a lot in between.
And most of the team was thoroughly unlikeable. My kids even said it. My uncle said it. My drinking buddies said it. JPP the tub thrower is gone? No one cared. For 62 million you get a guy with 2 hands. Pugh and Richburg? Big mouths that don't deliver. Hart and Flowers? Please. Quitters. I says, "do you like Vernon?" Uncle says, "You mean the guy that Kneels? No." I thought maybe he confused him with Harrison....
This is beside all the suspended quitters and walkouts and consta-injured and never-delivers on the roster. Harris is gone? So what.he list goes on.
They were an unliked bunch. And that is a commonly held opinion. A good portion of us are watching this roster get gutted as we sit back and eat the popcorn. No sympathy, just curious as to what comes next. Spring cleaning baby, out with the old, in with the new.
1.5 hands is what happened. The workload that gets normally distributed to 10 fingers got concentrated on 7.5, and over time they wear down. You saw the club re-appear, and it was just a matter of time. The injury did him in, even if indirectly. Guarantee he was in constant pain that only got worse as the season wore on. You can't perform consistently under those circumstances.