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"Giants keep saying they're not going to take a QB"

kelsto811 : 3/23/2018 1:43 pm
I rarely watch ESPN anymore but flipped on ESPN2 to see what was up with Josh Allen quickly and heard McShay say this. Then saw the Canty thread. Then saw this article headline "'Expectation' is that Darnold, Rosen, Allen won't be ranked in Giants' Top 3" (Article cited).

So is this the definition of a smokescreen or does everyone think this is the direction the Giants are trending. My perspective is.. If they didn't want a QB, why make it so obvious. Is it just that hard to keep a lid on things in the age of information?

No one knows but just a food for thought thread
Link - ( New Window )
FYI..McShay  
kelsto811 : 3/23/2018 1:45 pm : link
Didn't blow off the fact he could be wrong but said he "tends to believe them"
It depends if you believe they're sending up a smokescreen or not  
JonC : 3/23/2018 1:45 pm : link
My instinct is they're not, but I'll be surprised if Darnold is there and they pass him over.
Where did the Giants say  
joeinpa : 3/23/2018 1:46 pm : link
they were not taking a quarterback.

I believe what you are referring to is speculation by those covering the team.
No one knows anything  
jeff57 : 3/23/2018 1:46 pm : link
Except the people who know.
So, as to why make it so obvious  
Emil : 3/23/2018 1:47 pm : link
The only thing I can think of is you are broadcasting loud and clear to QB needy teams "we are open for a trade, trade here, get your draft day trader here."

Either that, or it is the biggest smokescreen in NFL draft history.
RE: Where did the Giants say  
kelsto811 : 3/23/2018 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13882630 joeinpa said:
Quote:
they were not taking a quarterback.

I believe what you are referring to is speculation by those covering the team.


It's a McShay quote hence the quotations and information listed inside the thread. Premise like I said is this an obvious smokescreen or not
RE: It depends if you believe they're sending up a smokescreen or not  
Emil : 3/23/2018 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13882629 JonC said:
Quote:
My instinct is they're not, but I'll be surprised if Darnold is there and they pass him over.


Concur...100%
Until they don't...  
NYG07 : 3/23/2018 1:48 pm : link
I am convinced the Giants will be taking a QB. There are going to be 4 QBs taken in the top 6 of this draft and given Eli's age they certainly are in the market for one for the future of this franchise. Barkley and Chubb would be nice additions, but this league will always be about QBs.
Sending a message to Cleveland  
UberAlias : 3/23/2018 1:51 pm : link
Giants are the only thing in the way of Cleveland getting their guy at 4, if they are hot on one.
And Now on Rotoword...  
Giants34 : 3/23/2018 1:52 pm : link
The report is they would take Darnold but not the others. And earlier this morning the reports from Schefter and others is the Giants are blowing it up and rebuilding, not retooling, which suggests they would go QB, not another position.

I know what JonC has heard - and I am not saying he is wrong (I certainly have no information to suggest that) - but I continue to have a hard time believing that the Giants will pass up a QB when they are in such a prime position to do so. Gettleman and Shurmur will not tie their long term successes on Eli, even if they do think he can play well this year. Ultimately, they did not draft Webb, and they need a long term replacement. And in case you wonder if they think Webb is really the answer, just look at how they are jettisoning every player from the old regime.

The beat writers have been wrong on just about everything this year. Gettleman plugged the leaks, and he is releasing the info he wants out there. Simple as that. I don't think he believes picking Barkley at 2 is in the best long term interest of the Giants, and no one here can convince me otherwise. And if he does select Barkley, I will be convinced that he was the wrong man for this job.
Its the reports that they would take Darnold that I think are key  
UberAlias : 3/23/2018 1:54 pm : link
If Cleveland likes Darnold and Allen and are hot for someone specific at 4, how does Cleveland assure they get their guy?

By taking Allen at 1 and letting Darnold slip to NYG at 2.
RE: And Now on Rotoword...  
Giantfan in skinland : 3/23/2018 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13882642 Giants34 said:
Quote:
The report is they would take Darnold but not the others. And earlier this morning the reports from Schefter and others is the Giants are blowing it up and rebuilding, not retooling, which suggests they would go QB, not another position.

I know what JonC has heard - and I am not saying he is wrong (I certainly have no information to suggest that) - but I continue to have a hard time believing that the Giants will pass up a QB when they are in such a prime position to do so. Gettleman and Shurmur will not tie their long term successes on Eli, even if they do think he can play well this year. Ultimately, they did not draft Webb, and they need a long term replacement. And in case you wonder if they think Webb is really the answer, just look at how they are jettisoning every player from the old regime.

The beat writers have been wrong on just about everything this year. Gettleman plugged the leaks, and he is releasing the info he wants out there. Simple as that. I don't think he believes picking Barkley at 2 is in the best long term interest of the Giants, and no one here can convince me otherwise. And if he does select Barkley, I will be convinced that he was the wrong man for this job.


You're making an assumption here that they didn't come into their jobs with marching orders on how this will be handled. I'm not sure that's the case.
RE: It depends if you believe they're sending up a smokescreen or not  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/23/2018 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13882629 JonC said:
Quote:
My instinct is they're not, but I'll be surprised if Darnold is there and they pass him over.


We might have come around to where we were a month ago...Darnold could potentially be the only QB they are interested in.
I don't think the Giants have said *anything*  
Bill L : 3/23/2018 1:58 pm : link
and, if we are going to speculate on what they want or who they like, I speculate that we will all feel like they are picking this person or that, like this player or that, will do this or that, about a hundred times over the next few weeks and it will be different every time.
The Org isn't done with their evals yet  
One Man Thrill Ride : 3/23/2018 1:58 pm : link
The draft is more than one month away.

Everything Gettleman has done to this point is totally independent of the upcoming draft.

The Giants won't say what they're gonna do, primarily because they don't even know yet.

Maybe Gettleman's draft history might telegraph his biases (picking RBs high, never ever trading down), but it's all educated guesses for now.

The process remains fluid.
RE: And Now on Rotoword...  
Essex : 3/23/2018 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13882642 Giants34 said:
Quote:


The beat writers have been wrong on just about everything this year. Gettleman plugged the leaks, and he is releasing the info he wants out there. Simple as that. I don't think he believes picking Barkley at 2 is in the best long term interest of the Giants, and no one here can convince me otherwise. And if he does select Barkley, I will be convinced that he was the wrong man for this job.

I agree with this for the most part. My only difference is that as much as I am in favor of taking a QB, if Gettleman truly doesn't think there are franchise qbs in this draft or at least one at the second spot, he shouldn't force a pick. We pay him to make these decisions, and if its best guess that they are just not worthy than I have to give him the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong. If that is the case, though, just trade down and pick Chubb or Nelson. Barkley would probably be a waste for us for 2-3 years and we would be paying him big money in relation to other rbs to boot.
RE: The Org isn't done with their evals yet  
kelsto811 : 3/23/2018 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13882659 One Man Thrill Ride said:
Quote:
The draft is more than one month away.

Everything Gettleman has done to this point is totally independent of the upcoming draft.

The Giants won't say what they're gonna do, primarily because they don't even know yet.

Maybe Gettleman's draft history might telegraph his biases (picking RBs high, never ever trading down), but it's all educated guesses for now.

The process remains fluid.


This is a great post and how I have always felt about any team. Unless you're picking one,
(And even in cases when picking first) the process should remain fluid. The draft experts get paid to dig up the dirt otherwise but it's fluff. Just find it hard to believe that most are saying with certainty that the Giants won't take a QB/don't have them ranked top 3
RE: RE: And Now on Rotoword...  
Giants34 : 3/23/2018 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13882650 Giantfan in skinland said:
Quote:
In comment 13882642 Giants34 said:


Quote:


The report is they would take Darnold but not the others. And earlier this morning the reports from Schefter and others is the Giants are blowing it up and rebuilding, not retooling, which suggests they would go QB, not another position.

I know what JonC has heard - and I am not saying he is wrong (I certainly have no information to suggest that) - but I continue to have a hard time believing that the Giants will pass up a QB when they are in such a prime position to do so. Gettleman and Shurmur will not tie their long term successes on Eli, even if they do think he can play well this year. Ultimately, they did not draft Webb, and they need a long term replacement. And in case you wonder if they think Webb is really the answer, just look at how they are jettisoning every player from the old regime.

The beat writers have been wrong on just about everything this year. Gettleman plugged the leaks, and he is releasing the info he wants out there. Simple as that. I don't think he believes picking Barkley at 2 is in the best long term interest of the Giants, and no one here can convince me otherwise. And if he does select Barkley, I will be convinced that he was the wrong man for this job.


You're making an assumption here that they didn't come into their jobs with marching orders on how this will be handled. I'm not sure that's the case.


That is fair. And if Mara is hamstringing them and butting into football business like this, then this ship will sink. But I don't know that Gettleman would agree to be part of a front office like that, nor do I think Shurmur would put his last head coaching opportunity on a QB he doesn't like. If he does like Webb, so be it.

In any event, it was Mara who ordered Reese and the other scouts to scout the top QBs in this year's draft. It would be hard for me to believe that now he is ordering that they move forward that a complete unknown in Webb.
RE: The Org isn't done with their evals yet  
Bill L : 3/23/2018 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13882659 One Man Thrill Ride said:
Quote:
The draft is more than one month away.

Everything Gettleman has done to this point is totally independent of the upcoming draft.

The Giants won't say what they're gonna do, primarily because they don't even know yet.

Maybe Gettleman's draft history might telegraph his biases (picking RBs high, never ever trading down), but it's all educated guesses for now.

The process remains fluid.
Completely disagree...

it's just guesses. Regular, out of our butts guesses. That's all.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 3/23/2018 2:07 pm : link
1. Plenty of time for evaluations to change. I'm doubtful an organizational consensus is reached at this point.

2. The leaking sources likely have their own views, and much of the leaked information likely reflects the views of the sources more than the decision makers.
who knows, could they mean that they won't take just ANY QB  
Victor in CT : 3/23/2018 2:10 pm : link
Agree with JonC that if Darnold is there they pounce. If not, anything is possible.
Sitting at #2....  
Reb8thVA : 3/23/2018 2:14 pm : link
I'm not sure that there are many circumstances where a smokescreen makes sense. I guess if you are trying to deke the Browns into picking some one first that you don't want, I guess that makes sense but I'm not sure how easy it is to do that.
RE: RE: RE: And Now on Rotoword...  
NYG07 : 3/23/2018 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13882679 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 13882650 Giantfan in skinland said:


Quote:


In comment 13882642 Giants34 said:


Quote:


The report is they would take Darnold but not the others. And earlier this morning the reports from Schefter and others is the Giants are blowing it up and rebuilding, not retooling, which suggests they would go QB, not another position.

I know what JonC has heard - and I am not saying he is wrong (I certainly have no information to suggest that) - but I continue to have a hard time believing that the Giants will pass up a QB when they are in such a prime position to do so. Gettleman and Shurmur will not tie their long term successes on Eli, even if they do think he can play well this year. Ultimately, they did not draft Webb, and they need a long term replacement. And in case you wonder if they think Webb is really the answer, just look at how they are jettisoning every player from the old regime.

The beat writers have been wrong on just about everything this year. Gettleman plugged the leaks, and he is releasing the info he wants out there. Simple as that. I don't think he believes picking Barkley at 2 is in the best long term interest of the Giants, and no one here can convince me otherwise. And if he does select Barkley, I will be convinced that he was the wrong man for this job.


You're making an assumption here that they didn't come into their jobs with marching orders on how this will be handled. I'm not sure that's the case.



That is fair. And if Mara is hamstringing them and butting into football business like this, then this ship will sink. But I don't know that Gettleman would agree to be part of a front office like that, nor do I think Shurmur would put his last head coaching opportunity on a QB he doesn't like. If he does like Webb, so be it.

In any event, it was Mara who ordered Reese and the other scouts to scout the top QBs in this year's draft. It would be hard for me to believe that now he is ordering that they move forward that a complete unknown in Webb.


Exactly. It was obvious to me that Webb did not play in the final 4 games because Spags was trying to save his job. Yet Mara signed off on the benching of Eli and like you said, gave the direct order to heavily scout the top QBs coming out this year. Reese was at the UCLA-USC game. It sure sounds to me like he is ready to find the next guy, but maybe Gettleman will convince him otherwise.
RE: Sitting at #2....  
Strahan91 : 3/23/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13882709 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
I'm not sure that there are many circumstances where a smokescreen makes sense. I guess if you are trying to deke the Browns into picking some one first that you don't want, I guess that makes sense but I'm not sure how easy it is to do that.


It's probably nearly impossible but there's no downside to trying either
...  
Beezer : 3/23/2018 2:20 pm : link
RE: Where did the Giants say  
Beer Man : 3/23/2018 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13882630 joeinpa said:
Quote:
they were not taking a quarterback.

I believe what you are referring to is speculation by those covering the team.
+1. They have never said that they would not go QB. In fact DG has been very good about hiding his intentions. That's all speculation on the part of the talking heads.
Drafting a QB  
Harvest Blend : 3/23/2018 2:39 pm : link
seems like a must to me when you consider the salaries some of these average FA QB's are getting. When Cousins gets $84m guaranteed for 3 years, Bradford gets a $20m deal for one year and Keenum gets the cash he got it makes sense to draft a guy that you can have fairly cost controlled for 5 years. Of course you have to pick the right guy though.
When Cleveland begins negotiations  
8TimeChamps : 3/23/2018 2:58 pm : link
With the 1st pick pre-draft you MAY finally have a slight idea of the Giants intentions. They have to maintain negotiating leverage.
RE: When Cleveland begins negotiations  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/23/2018 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13882841 8TimeChamps said:
Quote:
With the 1st pick pre-draft you MAY finally have a slight idea of the Giants intentions. They have to maintain negotiating leverage.

That doesn't really happen anymore - for two reasons: 1) the draft slots are basically locked in, so there isn't much meaningful negotiation to be had; 2) the NFL frowns on having the first pick leak out before the draft starts.
I hold in my hand the envelopes. ...  
gogiants : 3/23/2018 3:21 pm : link
I don't believe any team has made their choice a month before the draf  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/23/2018 3:27 pm : link
Very, very hard for me to buy that.
RE: It depends if you believe they're sending up a smokescreen or not  
Jimmy Googs : 3/23/2018 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13882629 JonC said:
Quote:
My instinct is they're not, but I'll be surprised if Darnold is there and they pass him over.


maybe misread...but if your instinct says there is no smokescreen then you shouldn't be surprised at all. Your surprise would be your preference not theirs.

RE: I don't believe any team has made their choice a month before the draf  
Jimmy Googs : 3/23/2018 3:36 pm : link
In comment 13882921 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Very, very hard for me to buy that.


Maybe, maybe not. I would hope our guys have prepared themselves well in advance of their views so that they can also be ready to assess trade offers efficiently to set up their remaining draft board...
Smokescreen,  
Keith : 3/23/2018 3:41 pm : link
we are taking a QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: And Now on Rotoword...  
Giantfan in skinland : 3/23/2018 3:43 pm : link
In comment 13882717 NYG07 said:
Quote:


That is fair. And if Mara is hamstringing them and butting into football business like this, then this ship will sink. But I don't know that Gettleman would agree to be part of a front office like that, nor do I think Shurmur would put his last head coaching opportunity on a QB he doesn't like. If he does like Webb, so be it.

In any event, it was Mara who ordered Reese and the other scouts to scout the top QBs in this year's draft. It would be hard for me to believe that now he is ordering that they move forward that a complete unknown in Webb.



Exactly. It was obvious to me that Webb did not play in the final 4 games because Spags was trying to save his job. Yet Mara signed off on the benching of Eli and like you said, gave the direct order to heavily scout the top QBs coming out this year. Reese was at the UCLA-USC game. It sure sounds to me like he is ready to find the next guy, but maybe Gettleman will convince him otherwise.


My perception (and it's all reading tea leaves, admittedly) is that Mara was fully involved/in the loop on everything pre-Eli benching. So yes, he did want to scout QBs and evaluate the guys on their roster. And then....

It all blew up in his face. And he took major criticism for the way things went down with Eli. And in response, he seemed to completely over correct. There is simply no way an owner that was interested in evaluating for the future (who also is bringing in a new GM) let's an interim coach not even play the young QB in the situation they were in. Some say Spags was coaching for his job. I think he was just doing what he was told (i.e., Eli plays the rest of the way). And I think DG and Shurmur were maybe asked, "Can you make this work with Eli?". And the fact that both said yes was part of why they're here.
To me it seems like the Giants are doing a good job confusing  
PatersonPlank : 3/23/2018 4:00 pm : link
everyone, so no one knows what they are going to do. Which is good.
RE: RE: I don't believe any team has made their choice a month before the draf  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/23/2018 4:15 pm : link
In comment 13882949 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13882921 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Very, very hard for me to buy that.



Maybe, maybe not. I would hope our guys have prepared themselves well in advance of their views so that they can also be ready to assess trade offers efficiently to set up their remaining draft board...


Sure, but you often hear stories of teams still debating picks while they're on the clock. There's a story from back in Accorsi's day of Jerry Reese banging the table in the war room because he was sold on Osi Umenyiora.
If the Giants  
8TimeChamps : 3/23/2018 5:07 pm : link
draft a QB it will be interesting to find out what kind of deals they passed up, years later. The potential of this draft pick is unbelievable because of this crop of QB’s!
RE: Smokescreen,  
T-Bone : 3/23/2018 5:12 pm : link
In comment 13882963 Keith said:
Quote:
we are taking a QB.


No they're nooooooooot!
Nobody knows, not even me!  
Milton : 3/23/2018 5:29 pm : link
And anybody that thinks they have a clue is just flattering themselves.

The only thing anyone knows for sure is that drafting Barkley with the #2 overall pick would be the height of stupidity. He is a media darling because the league needed a non-QB to promote and he was by far the most marketable. It's a lot more exciting showing clips of big runs than it is showing clips of blocking and tackling. Don't the agents and TV execs dictate your wish list!
Not so sure...  
Jimmy Googs : 3/23/2018 5:36 pm : link
who doesn't get jazzed up for a replay of pulling Guard block that springs the running back for an 8 yard gain?

Since Giant fans haven't seen that happen for about a decade we very well might...

DG will Stamp This Team  
Rafflee : 3/24/2018 6:27 am : link
His Training and Dipostion and Ego will weigh toward making this team into his own image---Long Term and Legacy--that spells QB.

The 2nd pick in the draft is a personal challenge for this regime, and they will answer it loudly---i don't believe they will duck opportunity.

RB's are 5 year plans---QB's are 10 year plans..Legacies. That will heavily influence them toward a QB
.  
Bill2 : 3/24/2018 7:54 am : link
Lot of logic that it will be "A" Qb.

Which one? Or not a Qb?

They follow a process. They are still scouting and assessing. We know this because we have pictures of them scouting. And they will be few a few weeks.

Can anyone prove they have even moved on to the next step of evaluating and rank ordering possible draftees for their first board? Their second draft? Third internal review at their board?

Then taken offers?

There is a huge difference in decision calculus in evaluating offers after your board is done and so is everyone else's.

Out here we want them done. Inside...they would be foolish to consider our needs.

They dont know yet. Is it a decent projection to guess QB. Sure. Is it based on anything the Giants know?

What they know right now is the scouting and assessment schedule for next week.

Imo. Sucks to wait when you care but have no control
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