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Shula and the QBs

BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/23/2018 3:50 pm
There is something about former QBs being offensive coordinators and QB coaches. Having Shula there to teach a drafted QB will be huge, if that's the route we go.

Even Shurmur has a stellar track record coaching QBs (Not bad for a former Offensive Lineman).

Having these 2 in place will be huge for whoever takes the reigns in the future.
I agree  
Keaton028 : 3/23/2018 3:52 pm : link
The environment the Giants have created is conducive to young QB talent that needs to develop. I am a proponent of Davis Webb, but if the Giants use the #2 pick on a QB, I won't be upset. Having Shurmur and Shula present to develop these guys only increases the chances that one of them becomes a decent starter. Options are a great thing.
I think  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 4:22 pm : link
it’s absolutely criminal if DG passes on all these QBs. I get maybe a trade down, I am personally against but that would at least makes sense. However to dismiss this class as not being good enough is going to have DG remembered as a complete moron.
Ehhh  
Keaton028 : 3/23/2018 4:27 pm : link
I don’t agree with that. If there isn’t a QB that you believe in, you don’t just select one anyway. Take the guy you believe can help the team be successful.


So many here are overly dramatic about this. Drafting a player involves more than just “we need a QB so draft one!!!” If you like a guy, great. But I wouldn’t consider DG “moronic” if he felt Barkley was a better choice.
RE: Ehhh  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 4:31 pm : link
In comment 13883095 Keaton028 said:
Quote:
I don’t agree with that. If there isn’t a QB that you believe in, you don’t just select one anyway. Take the guy you believe can help the team be successful.


So many here are overly dramatic about this. Drafting a player involves more than just “we need a QB so draft one!!!” If you like a guy, great. But I wouldn’t consider DG “moronic” if he felt Barkley was a better choice.


I suppose I could see your point on Barkley. He has been called a lot of great things. I still believe that the QBs are elite and you rarely have a chance to pick 2nd with a group this good. I don’t understand passing on them for Chubb or Nelson. To me a RB at 2 is still a hard sell. It worked for the Cowboys because they had a good team that had their QB go down. We had our QB start every terrible game and we finished 3-13.
RE: I think  
Rflairr : 3/23/2018 4:33 pm : link
In comment 13883083 mattyblue said:
Quote:
it’s absolutely criminal if DG passes on all these QBs. I get maybe a trade down, I am personally against but that would at least makes sense. However to dismiss this class as not being good enough is going to have DG remembered as a complete moron.


I think Shurmur got the job partly because the need to develop the new young QB
I agree that this chance  
Keaton028 : 3/23/2018 4:35 pm : link
Doesn’t come around often for successful organizations. And again, even as an advocate for Webb, I’d be fine if the Giants went QB. It means they see something special in one of them. I’m just not going to get all bent out of shape if they don’t. There are a few great prospects at the top of round one, and I’ll consider it a win if we get one of them.
I agree with you Rflair  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 4:35 pm : link
Also passing on a QB to let the Jets pick one? Do you think that DG will be remembered fondly if the Jets finally get a really good QB and we end up with a decent player.
RE: I agree that this chance  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 4:38 pm : link
In comment 13883116 Keaton028 said:
Quote:
Doesn’t come around often for successful organizations. And again, even as an advocate for Webb, I’d be fine if the Giants went QB. It means they see something special in one of them. I’m just not going to get all bent out of shape if they don’t. There are a few great prospects at the top of round one, and I’ll consider it a win if we get one of them.


You are correct in saying get bent out of shape. Due to stresses on the home front (mysterious sickness in daughter and a million doctors) I have turned to BBI to read and write about the draft. I think I am getting to insane over it, but it’s better than just thinking about what else is going on non stop I think.
RE: Ehhh  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/23/2018 4:41 pm : link
In comment 13883095 Keaton028 said:
Quote:
I don’t agree with that. If there isn’t a QB that you believe in, you don’t just select one anyway. Take the guy you believe can help the team be successful.


So many here are overly dramatic about this. Drafting a player involves more than just “we need a QB so draft one!!!” If you like a guy, great. But I wouldn’t consider DG “moronic” if he felt Barkley was a better choice.


Point of the post, wasn't so much to advocate for taking a QB, but to advocate that we have 2 QB guys developing whoever the next QB will be. Whether that is our pick this year or Webb.
I also don’t understand why we care  
Keaton028 : 3/23/2018 4:41 pm : link
Who the Jets pick? I worry more about our division rivals, and the Jets haven’t been good in awhile. I guess New York rivalry and all, but I could not care less if the Jets get a decent QB. Just my opinion.
RE: I also don’t understand why we care  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/23/2018 4:42 pm : link
In comment 13883130 Keaton028 said:
Quote:
Who the Jets pick? I worry more about our division rivals, and the Jets haven’t been good in awhile. I guess New York rivalry and all, but I could not care less if the Jets get a decent QB. Just my opinion.


You don't want to get roasted for years about letting a Franchise guy slip through your fingers and letting him go to the in city rival. That's why.
I guess I don’t hate the Jets as much as some here.  
Keaton028 : 3/23/2018 4:44 pm : link
I kind of just find them rather insignificant to the Giants unless they are on our schedule. I’d care more if we let a good player slip to Redskins.
There's too much at stake for Shurmur and Gettleman  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/23/2018 4:45 pm : link
to get cute or be dazzled by the flashy pick.

This could be Shurmur's last legitimate shot to succeed as a head coach. They often say you get two chances to fail at that job.

And Dave Gettleman, with no disrespect intended, is 67 years old. It's likely going to be his last ride as a GM in this league. I understand that he got his chance to run a team very late in his career, but he's coming in at an age where most people in that role are contemplating retirement for a variety of reasons, health and lifestyle being the one that comes to mind the most. Even Ozzie Newsome, who is likely going to the hall of fame as an executive, is stepping down at 62. Bill Polian moved on at 68. Parcells had enough even of being a front office executive at 66.
TTH  
Keaton028 : 3/23/2018 4:47 pm : link
And if they believe in a guy, they should absolutely take him for that reason. But if not, build the team in other areas.
RE: There's too much at stake for Shurmur and Gettleman  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 4:52 pm : link
In comment 13883136 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
to get cute or be dazzled by the flashy pick.

This could be Shurmur's last legitimate shot to succeed as a head coach. They often say you get two chances to fail at that job.

And Dave Gettleman, with no disrespect intended, is 67 years old. It's likely going to be his last ride as a GM in this league. I understand that he got his chance to run a team very late in his career, but he's coming in at an age where most people in that role are contemplating retirement for a variety of reasons, health and lifestyle being the one that comes to mind the most. Even Ozzie Newsome, who is likely going to the hall of fame as an executive, is stepping down at 62. Bill Polian moved on at 68. Parcells had enough even of being a front office executive at 66.


TTH I always value your opinion, as I respect you very much as a poster. That being said, who in your opinion would be the flashy pick? To me the flashy pick is grabbing a RB, great RBs can be had in most rounds. The QB while probably considered flashy is also a huge need for us, and it’s not flashy to take a QB when you are dealing with an elite crop. I will stop saying flashy now.
RE: RE: There's too much at stake for Shurmur and Gettleman  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/23/2018 5:00 pm : link
In comment 13883152 mattyblue said:
Quote:
In comment 13883136 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


to get cute or be dazzled by the flashy pick.

This could be Shurmur's last legitimate shot to succeed as a head coach. They often say you get two chances to fail at that job.

And Dave Gettleman, with no disrespect intended, is 67 years old. It's likely going to be his last ride as a GM in this league. I understand that he got his chance to run a team very late in his career, but he's coming in at an age where most people in that role are contemplating retirement for a variety of reasons, health and lifestyle being the one that comes to mind the most. Even Ozzie Newsome, who is likely going to the hall of fame as an executive, is stepping down at 62. Bill Polian moved on at 68. Parcells had enough even of being a front office executive at 66.



TTH I always value your opinion, as I respect you very much as a poster. That being said, who in your opinion would be the flashy pick? To me the flashy pick is grabbing a RB, great RBs can be had in most rounds. The QB while probably considered flashy is also a huge need for us, and it’s not flashy to take a QB when you are dealing with an elite crop. I will stop saying flashy now.


I mean no insult by flashy, just to be clear. I was talking about Barkley. He might be a wonderful player for 15 years and become one of those special players you know is going to be a hall of famer while he's still an active player. I have no idea.

I firmly believe, and as fans, we have ALL seen it be proven both by this franchise and others, that you can win, win big, and win consistently without spending that kind of draft capital on that position. I'm just against it. And I have a massive appreciation for special talent, so I'd love to watch the Giants with an unstoppable player at any position. I just think spending that pick on that position is using the wrong tool for the job.
Yeah it will definitely pay off  
sharpshooter66 : 3/23/2018 5:04 pm : link
To get solid offensive production with QBs who arent necessarily the top rated prospects.
I agree TTH  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 5:23 pm : link
I don’t see the value of RB at 2. I don’t care how special they can be. For me it is QB or bust. Given our current situation and pick slot we are in a prime position to set ourselves up at the position a team languishes for many years without. I have noted a few times that my company was hired by the NFL this past year to compile information on many top college prospects. I led the team that mainly looked at QBs (a few exceptions) this was not us being Scouts it was us putting together insane amounts of statistical data on each of them. With that I was able to meet Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen along with numerous pretty famous talking heads and scouts. One thing I took away from all of this is, all these people feel this class is beyond special. I just don’t see while sitting at 2, how we can pass at the QB position. Maybe they only like one of them. If so go get him, but I don’t believe that to be the case. Hiring Shurmur only reinforces the point that the time to take a QB is now.
Also due to  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 5:25 pm : link
the sheer amount of work and time I put in to this project at work. I am probably biased.
Matty  
jtgiants : 3/23/2018 6:03 pm : link
I respect your opinion and we disagree which is fine. The thing is though, unless its Darnold, I don't think we go qb. As for rb that early. There are exceptions. The cowboys, jags, and rams don't regret there picks. Barkley may be better than them all. To me, the giants should trade back, but the only qb I would take is Darnold.
Also  
jtgiants : 3/23/2018 6:10 pm : link
While I'm on record, as believing eli has much more left than some, I am 100% opposed to the kid sitting this whole year. I think these young kids have to play in today's nfl. I also think the giants are trying to win now. Finally, I have a very educated opinion on this, ill leave it at that, but if eli plays well this year he will be allowed to finish out his contract imo. Some don't think its a big deal. I do. If the giants play well this year it means the number 2 pick in the draft sits for 2 years. To me that a terrible use of assets. I stand by that
JT  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 7:13 pm : link
No issue whatsoever in disagreeing here. I agree that you are probably correct and the Giants will not draft a QB, that will be a decision that is gonna haunt this franchise badly.

As for winning now, if you are indeed correct and I don’t doubt it that the Giants are win now mode. They are so far off it’s comical. Eli hasn’t looked good he has looked terrible. Errant throws, mind blowing interceptions, completely skittish. Odell can’t carry an offense by himself. When your QB is a drain you will never win.

Anyways, agreeing to disagree is one of the most important things in life. One thing we can both agree on is getting back to Giants greatness, back to winning, we were far and away the worst team in football last year, I’m all about not wanting to witness that again.
RE: Also  
Jay on the Island : 3/23/2018 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13883276 jtgiants said:
Quote:
While I'm on record, as believing eli has much more left than some, I am 100% opposed to the kid sitting this whole year. I think these young kids have to play in today's nfl. I also think the giants are trying to win now. Finally, I have a very educated opinion on this, ill leave it at that, but if eli plays well this year he will be allowed to finish out his contract imo. Some don't think its a big deal. I do. If the giants play well this year it means the number 2 pick in the draft sits for 2 years. To me that a terrible use of assets. I stand by that

History has shown that QB's are better off sitting. Darnold and especially Allen would benefit from sitting for most if not all of their rookie season's. I think Rosen and perhaps Mayfield are ready to start as rookies.
The draft is about the future  
Jay on the Island : 3/23/2018 7:20 pm : link
Drafting for need to win now is what poor franchises do. It will set your team back. What it comes down to is do you use the #2 pick on a QB now or trade up, giving up several high picks in the process, in a year or two to get the next QB?

The Giants have a rare opportunity to go from one franchise QB to another without having a few terrible seasons to be in range to draft a QB.
RE: The draft is about the future  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 7:25 pm : link
In comment 13883353 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Drafting for need to win now is what poor franchises do. It will set your team back. What it comes down to is do you use the #2 pick on a QB now or trade up, giving up several high picks in the process, in a year or two to get the next QB?

The Giants have a rare opportunity to go from one franchise QB to another without having a few terrible seasons to be in range to draft a QB.


+1,000
RE: RE: The draft is about the future  
Tom in NY : 3/23/2018 9:57 pm : link
In comment 13883356 mattyblue said:
Quote:
In comment 13883353 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


Drafting for need to win now is what poor franchises do. It will set your team back. What it comes down to is do you use the #2 pick on a QB now or trade up, giving up several high picks in the process, in a year or two to get the next QB?

The Giants have a rare opportunity to go from one franchise QB to another without having a few terrible seasons to be in range to draft a QB.



+1,000


+2,000
2 opinions  
mrvax : 3/23/2018 10:16 pm : link
1. DG was smart to hire Shurmur and Shula and they are a great asset in QB evals.

2. Don't be shocked if DG decides to grab a QB in the 2nd round such as Lauletta.
RE: 2 opinions  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 10:21 pm : link
In comment 13883497 mrvax said:
Quote:
1. DG was smart to hire Shurmur and Shula and they are a great asset in QB evals.

2. Don't be shocked if DG decides to grab a QB in the 2nd round such as Lauletta.


Lauletta has the weakest arm of all the QBs, he also has dangerously low velocity. I can’t imagine he would go round 2, or even round 3. Webb is a better prospect than him.
But I am  
mattyblue : 3/23/2018 10:23 pm : link
No means a draft guru MRV so no insult intended.
If its a QB Darnold is the guy ....  
Bluesbreaker : 3/23/2018 11:33 pm : link
I want Barkley if they could move down and get Chub I'm not sure that would work out .
Think its down to Barkley and Darnold
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