A divided house

And ban football threads to ease the tension around here.

since 2004. It’s been that long and we have been very fortunate all those years. It’s also social media and it’s role, spreading everything like wild fire regardless of validity.

And lastly, there’s no one way to build a team.

The way it is every year, about this time. "I say stop, you say go, I say yes, you say no".

but oh, if we call the whole thing off then we must part
and oh, if we ever part then that might break my heart


Link - ( New Window )

I don't think I can recall when a team has a 14 year vet QB who helped a team win 2 Super Bowls and then start to think about life without said QB......oh wait.....Phil Simms.

I think the fact we have been through this before and have seen how it can work out is why it is such a volital subject. We had Kent Graham and Dave Brown for a full 2 years before they cut Phil Simms and then added Danny Kannell in 1996 and we still couldn't find the replacement. Kerry Collins was actually the best of the bunch when added in 1999 and after a super bowl loss and a another playoff season followed by a 4-12 debacle, we drafted Eli.

We are in the same basic spot and it seems as though history is repeating itself. Many of us can see the similarities and yet I myself believe last year wasn't all Eli and if supported he can win.

The truth is both camps are correct. Simms won in 1993 when given some good targets and a revamped defense. Eli can win in 2018 with a revamped defense and a new OL. The scary part is we don't know if Davis Webb is Kerry Collins or Dave Brown...and I really don't want Dave Brown. None of us do.

In comment 13883829 UberAlias said:

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And ban football threads to ease the tension around here.

Lmfao

But cranked up because they have the #2 pick this year.

Opinions and options tend to be a bit more cloudy when they're picking at #22.

and believe they know what is right. No different than anywhere else. An Internet message board just makes it easier to be more strident and stubborn about your opinion.

If whoever the Giants pick at #2 - or wherever they pick - becomes an elite player, most people will get on board that it was a good pick. If the guys busts, or is just ok, people will howl about it. Eventually the argument over Eli largely died down because he won two Superbowls. Like everything else in sports, it will all be ok if they win. If they don't? People will second guess this draft for the next 10 years.

me thinks it goes beyond the fact the Giants stunk in 2017.

Of 2004. We were divided in the direction to go. There were people pounding the drums for Robert gallery, some wanted manning, some wanted Sean Taylor. Some people wanted us to trade back and accumulate picks.

2004 proved to really be a turning point in the franchise

This year is another turning point in the franchise to a degree. A new general manager, a new head coach and a roster that needs a lot of influx of talent.

Everyone has an opinion on what we should do, I just don't think anyone should be so adamant on their opinion. I was on board for drafting gallery in 2004, but slowly came around to the idea of getting Eli Manning.

Without glass half full vs. glass half empty. That being said, I don’t think anyone here says Eli has a lot left in the tank. For those who don’t want to force a QB it is more that they do not see any of the QB’s justifying a 2nd overall pick when they see someone like Nelson or Barkley who are vastly superior to John Jerry or whomever is starting at RB

Good to see you posting again

I think the issue this time around is Eli is a lightning rod simply because he has been the QB for what is a generation in during in the NFL. Even winning 2 Super Bowls, Eli has been polarizing based on his play

- Is he "elite"?
- Is he as good as Peyton?
- Why didn't he win more than he did?
- Why does he throw high?
- Why isn't he as accurate as other QBs?

And yet, he owns pretty much every passing record in Giants history, has been nothing but a model citizen and positive influence on the Giants and in the community and up until this year, was the only man to stop Tom Brady/ Bill Belichick and win 2 Super Bowl MVPs along the way.

The last time we as Giants fans had an attachment to a player like this was Simms and when he was pushed out after the 1994 season. But back then, there was no twitter. The internet was in it infancy as a few message boards.

So for the first time in the "modern" age, we are seeing it all come out.

I've already made peace with the fact that I see this season coming up very similar to 1993. The Giants will make one last run with Eli at QB and whatever is left of the Reese roster that Gettleman doesn't purge. by next year, there will be a new QB, be it Webb or a draft pick.

I think the Giants will actually be a better team in 2018 and could be good enough to compete for a playoff spot (8-8 or 9-7 can do it). But the real key is 2019 and beyond and Gettleman gets his roster as he wants it.

it is worse. Every year fans have their favorites in the draft and pride gets in the way.

In comment 13883829 UberAlias said:

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And ban football threads to ease the tension around here.

Okay, but no Civil War threads! Get over it, already!

While still treating others who disagree with respect. Too many of us are more concerned with winning an argument. It’s amazing all the mental gymnastics that go on on this board as people try to twist and turn different events and developments to fit their agenda. Obviously some people will be right and some wrong but there has been some bad analysis out there because people aren’t questioning their assumptions and relying on deductive reasoning.

In comment 13883874 Klaatu said:

Quote:

In comment 13883829 UberAlias said: Quote: And ban football threads to ease the tension around here. Okay, but no Civil War threads! Get over it, already!

In comment 13883877 Reb8thVA said:

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While still treating others who disagree with respect. Too many of us are more concerned with winning an argument. It’s amazing all the mental gymnastics that go on on this board as people try to twist and turn different events and developments to fit their agenda. Obviously some people will be right and some wrong but there has been some bad analysis out there because people aren’t questioning their assumptions and relying on deductive reasoning.

+1. People have their own opinions, that's all they are, no one knows any more (except maybe Hitdog). Yet lots come on here with "you're an idiot if you think x", or "no way the Giants don't take a x". Just stop.

Lol

In comment 13883877 Reb8thVA said:

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While still treating others who disagree with respect. Too many of us are more concerned with winning an argument. It’s amazing all the mental gymnastics that go on on this board as people try to twist and turn different events and developments to fit their agenda. Obviously some people will be right and some wrong but there has been some bad analysis out there because people aren’t questioning their assumptions and relying on deductive reasoning.

+1. There are a lot of people on here who believe their opinion is fact and people who disagree are idiots. Just a reflection of larger society I guess.

this team is going to be improved and the heads of in charge, as shown by Getts ie., are different than what we've seen in at least the past decade.

I only ask to try to maximize value....

@2....pick the QB...call it a day

try to swap with Jets, who is going QB. if Barkley or Chubb are choices.

if Nelson is target....try to get to 5....who is earliest he will be considered.

if it's just max pick....

I don't care.....just maximize it

Can you elaborate on your point?

the remedy in recent years is the Giants have picked players no one wanted. I don't think there were many people on BBI who were predicting Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple would be top 10 picks.

So we have that going for us, which is nice.

Who think they know what is the right thing to do based on casual observations. They think they know better than the scouts and coaches who do this for a living and have access to information that the fan (99% of BBI) does not have.

We have 20 threads a day on what the Giants should do at QB or with the draft picks. Everyone has an opinion and thinks they are right. Truth is we have little idea what the Giants are thinking about where they want to take the team in the next 5-10 years. They could be planning on keeping Eli around for another 2-3 years (he could get an extension...it is possible) Or they could be in discussions with X team for a trade. Beckham could be on the trading block or about to be given a huge contract. We just don't know.

This is an exciting time to be a fan. Anything is on the table right now. And nothing would truly surprise me at this point.

coach, GM, & Personnel Director fired. And, we look back at the 1st Rounders. Pugh, Flowers, Apple that haven't played like 1st Rounders. The fan base & BBI have been tramatized.

I actually thought it hasn't been that bad.

And, taking the broader view - it's sports. Who gives a shit if someone strongly disagrees with who I think should be drafted?

Football is a tragedy. 32 teams enter the season, 31 are disappointed at the end. Fatman knows the secret ingredient to success and it has nothing to do with what the GM or any players do.

Float like leaf on river of life...enjoy the Giants!

In comment 13883924 jtgiants said:

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Can you elaborate on your point?

Many people here are miserable, be it football or perhaps life frustration. The decorum and lack of respect shown to others, with the pure anger and misery mixed in, are ridiculous.

A healthy chunk of this forum really need to disengage and take a break.

In comment 13883939 JonC said:

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In comment 13883924 jtgiants said: Quote: Can you elaborate on your point? Many people here are miserable, be it football or perhaps life frustration. The decorum and lack of respect shown to others, with the pure anger and misery mixed in, are ridiculous. A healthy chunk of this forum really need to disengage and take a break.

Yup. My 6 1/2 month sabbatical made me sane again. 😎🙂

Where to start fixing first? The roof, the floors, the plumbing? Patch it or rebuild?

This team needs lots of work in lots of areas. Some people think one hole is more important than other holes and argue about it. Personally I don't see it being a quick fix.

Don't draft a QB, draft Barkley or Chubb.
Eli stil has enough left in the tank to win a SB with a good O line and a run game.
What else do you want to know?

In comment 13883939 JonC said:

Quote:

In comment 13883924 jtgiants said: Quote: Can you elaborate on your point? Many people here are miserable, be it football or perhaps life frustration. The decorum and lack of respect shown to others, with the pure anger and misery mixed in, are ridiculous. A healthy chunk of this forum really need to disengage and take a break.

sage advice

We're still getting a very good player(s).

It's just that if you felt there were better options and The Giants could have capitalized on them, then it's not the point of being "divided" that matters- it's that if the team doesn't produce after a couple of years you could start spouting that DG is incompetent.

If they win-- why would anyone be upset?

The guy that scares me the most is Allen. If Giants get him- no way I'll be upset. But . . . a few years down the road they either 1-- better be right-- and/or 2-- still very successful even though he is/becomes a bust.

Some are Giants fans first and some are Eli fans first

Is that the top 2 players in this draft based on pure talent are at positions that are typically not valued as highly as other positions. And none of these QBs are considered surefire. Of course they never are, but you know what I mean, people are all over the place on this bunch... "They are studs"/"Too many questions on all of them".

So if you are BPA, then you should go Barkley or maybe Nelson. But when you mix BPA with positional value, then maybe its not worth it...

Its a very unusual and polarizing draft this this year.

In comment 13883936 HBart said:

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Football is a tragedy. 32 teams enter the season, 31 are disappointed at the end. Fatman knows the secret ingredient to success and it has nothing to do with what the GM or any players do. Float like leaf on river of life...enjoy the Giants!

This really is the truth. At some point every fan had better come to grips the fact that being a fan means suffering. You can only hope to experience 1-2 titles over decades of watching and we have 4.

95% of the fan base suffers and suffers and suffers some more. We’ve had it better than most. GMs make mistakes. Coaches fail. Great players choke. Keep a rational perspective or at least try.

In comment 13883877 Reb8thVA said:

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While still treating others who disagree with respect. Too many of us are more concerned with winning an argument. It’s amazing all the mental gymnastics that go on on this board as people try to twist and turn different events and developments to fit their agenda. Obviously some people will be right and some wrong but there has been some bad analysis out there because people aren’t questioning their assumptions and relying on deductive reasoning.

I've been posting about this too many times. The problem is that some people's posts deteriorate to ad bominems. This is cause for the political threads ban but other threads are not immune.

I heard a talk on political discourse that may apply here. We have gone from a society where said "I'm right and you're wrong" to "I'm right and you're bad."