So I guess all those workouts and meetings with Baker Mayfield must mean they’re seriouslu considering him right? It’s due diligence and if anything you can make the argument that the ownership wanted to meet with this guy because of all the reports they’ve gotten about his lack of desire to play football. Maybe they don’t have to meet with Darnold or Barkley because they know that’s not even a possibility with them.
You see what you want to see but to take this and say they’re all in is stretching it at best.
Nothing more IMO. Giants own the #2 pick and will look at all the top picks. They wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t.
I'd say the same, but Mara/Tisch going to dinner with Rosen does seem like a big deal. Like how often has that happened? Seems like they are sold on his talent but really want to see if he is a fit for the organization.
The fact the giants aren't taking a qb. That said I really dislike Rosen as a prospect. The injuries scare me. I just don't think he has an NFL build at all. I employer all of you to also check out mayocks view on the kid. He isn't a fan at all. I'd be really upset if I'm wrong and he's the pick
We were talking at yesterday...there’s a mini-scandal up here in Albany where there was a obviously rabid raccoon running around a shopping area. It’s a little town and apparently the police were ill-equipped to deal with it and, figuring they didn’t want to go around shooting in a populated place, ran the raccoon over and killled it. Apparently, they weren’t initially successful, so they ran it over a few times. Of course, they were caught on tape. And, people became understandable empathetic because it looked gruesome.
So, my friend heads the Rabies testing lab here and they got the remains of the raccoon. Yeah, it had rabies. But they’re getting all sorts of phone calls and complaints from random people saying that the poor raccoon couldn’t possibly have rabies, that the test was wrong, that they are covering for the police, etc., etc., etc.
Point being, that the raccoon, who was potentially lethal while alive, became a victim through the nature of his death. And because of that victimization, people refused to believe results of objective testing analysis. Their own worldview caused them to ignore everything but what they wanted to believe and then to either deny or morph everything, supportive or contrary to their view, into something that validated their view.
RE: RE: It’s amazing to me that people are ignoring Â
this information. It’s so obvious to me that this is what the Giants primary focus is.
To be fair, you seem to see what you want to see. Nothing unusual; I think most people do that.
Possibly, but what else is there to see? The owner said it last year(in november) and it appears all of their resources have gone towards the qb’s. Ownership as well as the coaching staff and FO have gone to the qb pro days. I’m not sure what else there is to see.
We were talking at yesterday...there’s a mini-scandal up here in Albany where there was a obviously rabid raccoon running around a shopping area. It’s a little town and apparently the police were ill-equipped to deal with it and, figuring they didn’t want to go around shooting in a populated place, ran the raccoon over and killled it. Apparently, they weren’t initially successful, so they ran it over a few times. Of course, they were caught on tape. And, people became understandable empathetic because it looked gruesome.
So, my friend heads the Rabies testing lab here and they got the remains of the raccoon. Yeah, it had rabies. But they’re getting all sorts of phone calls and complaints from random people saying that the poor raccoon couldn’t possibly have rabies, that the test was wrong, that they are covering for the police, etc., etc., etc.
Point being, that the raccoon, who was potentially lethal while alive, became a victim through the nature of his death. And because of that victimization, people refused to believe results of objective testing analysis. Their own worldview caused them to ignore everything but what they wanted to believe and then to either deny or morph everything, supportive or contrary to their view, into something that validated their view.
We were talking at yesterday...there’s a mini-scandal up here in Albany where there was a obviously rabid raccoon running around a shopping area. It’s a little town and apparently the police were ill-equipped to deal with it and, figuring they didn’t want to go around shooting in a populated place, ran the raccoon over and killled it. Apparently, they weren’t initially successful, so they ran it over a few times. Of course, they were caught on tape. And, people became understandable empathetic because it looked gruesome.
So, my friend heads the Rabies testing lab here and they got the remains of the raccoon. Yeah, it had rabies. But they’re getting all sorts of phone calls and complaints from random people saying that the poor raccoon couldn’t possibly have rabies, that the test was wrong, that they are covering for the police, etc., etc., etc.
Point being, that the raccoon, who was potentially lethal while alive, became a victim through the nature of his death. And because of that victimization, people refused to believe results of objective testing analysis. Their own worldview caused them to ignore everything but what they wanted to believe and then to either deny or morph everything, supportive or contrary to their view, into something that validated their view.
Rocky Raccoon checked into his room
Only to find Gideon's bible
Rocky had come equipped with a gun
To shoot off the legs of his rival
His rival it seems had broken his dreams
By stealing the girl of his fancy
Her name was Magil and she called herself Lil
But everyone knew her as Nancy
Now she and her man who called himself Dan
Were in the next room at the hoe down
Rocky burst in and grinning a grin
He said Danny boy this is a showdown
But Daniel was hot, he drew first and shot
And Rocky collapsed in the corner, ah
We've hired the QB whisperer. Let him do what he is brought here to do. Develop the next franchise QB.
But did we hire a QB whisperer? Or did we hire a head coach who we thought was the best fit or best hire or who could take this team places *and* as an auxiliary benefit had a reputation of making decent QBs much more than they were? I think that those are different things.
So I guess all those workouts and meetings with Baker Mayfield must mean they’re seriouslu considering him right? It’s due diligence and if anything you can make the argument that the ownership wanted to meet with this guy because of all the reports they’ve gotten about his lack of desire to play football. Maybe they don’t have to meet with Darnold or Barkley because they know that’s not even a possibility with them.
You see what you want to see but to take this and say they’re all in is stretching it at best.
Yes it seems much better to on tbe word of Jordan Raanan, Chris Canty & JonC
Is telling. He's not involved in scouting, he's not flying across the country to have dinner with a kid as part of "due diligence". Rosen is on the shortlist.
We've hired the QB whisperer. Let him do what he is brought here to do. Develop the next franchise QB.
But did we hire a QB whisperer? Or did we hire a head coach who we thought was the best fit or best hire or who could take this team places *and* as an auxiliary benefit had a reputation of making decent QBs much more than they were? I think that those are different things.
Just meant that its a strength of his, similar to Doug Pederson. Giants need a culture enema, so hope he and DG can flush that quickly. But his side hustle is as a QB guru.
Is telling. He's not involved in scouting, he's not flying across the country to have dinner with a kid as part of "due diligence". Rosen is on the shortlist.
they were at darnolds pro day too. Maybe Gettleman convinced ownership to show up and confuse Cleveland. Who knows. Probably imagined them there because I want a qb so bad.
Nobody is saying that Rosen is definitely the guy but the fact that Mara is having dinner with the kid on the other side of the country means he's a huge part of that discussion. That's a final round of interviews type of meeting.
The fact the giants aren't taking a qb. That said I really dislike Rosen as a prospect. The injuries scare me. I just don't think he has an NFL build at all. I employer all of you to also check out mayocks view on the kid. He isn't a fan at all. I'd be really upset if I'm wrong and he's the pick
FWIW. If Rosen is close to pro ready now based on his college offense and skill reading defenses I can only imagine how much better he’ll get sitting and learning with Shurmur and Shula coaching him. It will also allow him to get stronger physically.
Thanks for the plug M.S.; we may have to put you on a retainer! Just a couple of points: several people mentioned that the Giants are just doing their due diligence. No! Due diligence is when you send a QB-coach level individual to a pro day. You are way beyond due diligence when you have your head coach, asst GM and director of college scouting all going to the pro day, holding a private work out and going to dinner with guys. In fact, it had to be obvious what the Giants were up to earlier this week even before news broke about Mara and Tisch going to dinner with Rosen to anyone who wasn't in denial.
What we don't know though is whether Mara and/or Tisch also went to dinner etc with either Darnold or Allen such that it is still possible the latter still might be in the debate. The other kind of interesting thing is that Gettleman himself wasn't part of the traveling group which suggests either that they are really locked in a particular player or if not then the choice may come down to which guy Shumer/Shula are most comfortable working with.
And as I have said earlier to me the really interesting aspect of the Giants draft will be what they do in the 2nd and 3rd rounds as there are a lot of quality second-day players who really fit their needs. And if 5-6 QBs do go in the opening round then the should get some looks at some first-round quality players with the 34th pick.
The fact the giants aren't taking a qb. That said I really dislike Rosen as a prospect. The injuries scare me. I just don't think he has an NFL build at all. I employer all of you to also check out mayocks view on the kid. He isn't a fan at all. I'd be really upset if I'm wrong and he's the pick
C'mon, JT, admit it, you love Rosen! You're just so afraid that the Giants won't take him that you are protecting yourself emotionally by acting like you didn't want him anyway.
p.s.--Mayock is just shilling for CAA, who represents both Allen and Darnold (and Mayock, too). CAA clients stick together, it's part of their formula for success dating back to their foundation in the 90's. Don't let agents and talking heads tell you how to think!!!
Is telling. He's not involved in scouting, he's not flying across the country to have dinner with a kid as part of "due diligence". Rosen is on the shortlist.
John Mara wasn't there, it was Chris Mara. Colin read it wrong.
Gettleman, who will be making the decision, and John Mara, who will be approving the decision, have been at none of these meetings. They are doing their best to avoid tipping their hand like they did in 2004. If they can land the prospect of their dreams without having to trade up for him, that would be a blessing.
All due respect, when the giants don't take a qb, and they won't imo, your going to eat a lot of crow. Your deductions, are your opinion, which is fine but your presenting them taking a qb as fact and it's not
All due respect, when the giants don't take a qb, and they won't imo, your going to eat a lot of crow. Your deductions, are your opinion, which is fine but your presenting them taking a qb as fact and it's not
Be fair, he's not presenting it as fact...
Quote:
And since it appears that Darnold is increasingly likely going to be the Browns’ choice, Rosen is looking more and more likely to be the Giants guy. But we’ve been wrong before! Stay tuned!
Wonder why Mara didn't include that football romantic Accorsi...that would seal it if he was there... ;)
My gut is Darnold has been their guy, and all along. But with Cleveland seemingly honed in on Darnold, then they need to do a much deeper dive on Rosen and Allen...
Mara and new Giant regime talking a good game about how Eli Â
hasn't lost anything in effort to create a buzz and see who bites. Looks like nobody did early so they had to pay the $5M bonus the other day. So he stays and may very well be penciled in as the de facto starter but that doesn't mean anything to what will still occur.
The plan was to always take a QB with #2 pick, as they knew and most are coming to grips now, that this crop of QBs are worth taking seriously.
And to the extent that QB is mature enough and develops his pro-game quickly enough, may very well beat out Eli for the job in September, or shortly thereafter if he continues his decline.
We were talking at yesterday...there’s a mini-scandal up here in Albany where there was a obviously rabid raccoon running around a shopping area. It’s a little town and apparently the police were ill-equipped to deal with it and, figuring they didn’t want to go around shooting in a populated place, ran the raccoon over and killled it. Apparently, they weren’t initially successful, so they ran it over a few times. Of course, they were caught on tape. And, people became understandable empathetic because it looked gruesome.
So, my friend heads the Rabies testing lab here and they got the remains of the raccoon. Yeah, it had rabies. But they’re getting all sorts of phone calls and complaints from random people saying that the poor raccoon couldn’t possibly have rabies, that the test was wrong, that they are covering for the police, etc., etc., etc.
Point being, that the raccoon, who was potentially lethal while alive, became a victim through the nature of his death. And because of that victimization, people refused to believe results of objective testing analysis. Their own worldview caused them to ignore everything but what they wanted to believe and then to either deny or morph everything, supportive or contrary to their view, into something that validated their view.
Is telling. He's not involved in scouting, he's not flying across the country to have dinner with a kid as part of "due diligence". Rosen is on the shortlist.
John Mara wasn't there, it was Chris Mara. Colin read it wrong.
Ah gotcha, that changes things a little bit given their organizational roles. Still shows interest but John Mara being there vs Chris is another animal.
Nothing more IMO. Giants own the #2 pick and will look at all the top picks. They wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t.
I'd say the same, but Mara/Tisch going to dinner with Rosen does seem like a big deal. Like how often has that happened? Seems like they are sold on his talent but really want to see if he is a fit for the organization.
If you look at the same page and scroll down to the post about the ND pro day, you will see that the Giants took Nelson out to dinner too. The page also notes that the Giants took a big contingent to see Allen too.
These visits are a rorschach test for fans. Everyone sees something different but are absolutely sure of what they see to the exclusion of anything else.
The reality is that the Giants know that they will have their choice of 3-7 guys their scouts and draft staff tell them are the top talents. The Browns will probably take one of them, leaving the rest to the Giants. The Giants would be making a massive mistake if they did not take every possible step to identify who best fits what they want.
Something else to remember about ownership and meeting with the players. Tisch knows next to nothing about football- he's in it for the investment and name value. Mara is not his father, and is looking to reverse the stain that the last season put on the franchise. Their role in decision making is minimal at best.
With that said, remember that the entire draft process is to obtain as much insight into a player as possible. One of Rosen's big knocks is that he is considered "cocky" and "aloof." The use of ownership would be to put the player in front of non-football people who are into the business side evaluation of people to find what their assessment of Rosen's people skills are.
This is all a LONG way of saying that while nothing will stop the wild speculation of people seeing something specific that you cannot shake them from when presented with an inkblot, FAR TOO MANY people here have lost sight of what the pre-draft process is for. It is not to telegraph moves or to signal where the team is going- it is to maximize their knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of each prospect so that the team hopefully has enough information to make what it hopes to be an accurate ranking of each of the prospects so that when draft day comes, the can make what they hope to be the right choice.
John Mara & Steve Tisch were both there according to an interview with Josh Rosen. He's a smart kid. Doubt he mixed up Chris & John.
here's the link to the interview with Rosen - ( New Window )
Hmmmm, It's Eisen who mentions John Mara and Rosen doesn't correct him, so you're probably right, but then the New York Post got it wrong...
Quote:
UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen revealed before working out privately for the Giants he attended dinner with co-owner Steve Tisch and Chris Mara, John’s brother and the team’s senior vice president of player personnel.
Hey guys don't get mad at me. One thing I struggle with the draft is that people generally want black and white answers when the draft is really 1000 shades of gray. And I would never say that the Giants are a 100% lock to take a QB on April 26th because rule #1 here at the GBN is never say never.
What I am saying, though, is that all the evidence out there right now points to the Giants taking a QB with the #2 pick and as far as I can tell there is almost nothing out there to suggest that they are doing anything else. If people do have some other evidence other than to suggest that the evidence that is out there is a smoke screen I'd love to hear it and we'll modify our theory.
And if the Giants do go in another direction I'll be the first to say 'wow did we get that wrong'. And we'll file that info away for future reference.
PS Not sure if it has been cleared up, but likely both John and Chris Mara were part of that dinner with Rosen. Chris was part of the original scouting group with Shumer and Abrams et al and presumably they would have been at the dinner along with John and Tisch.
In fact I do stand corrected; just re-read the actual article itself and it was only Chris at the dinner. And that definitely changes the dynamic in the sense that it really isn't that big a deal that Tisch who lives in LA went to the dinner. At the same time, I do not believe it changes the overall conclusion that the fact that the Giants had 7-8 people at those pro days including Shumer, Shula, Abrams and Chris Mara is still pretty telling given everything else we know.
Nothing more IMO. Giants own the #2 pick and will look at all the top picks. They wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t.
Ding, ding.
+2. Rosen also has some "character" concerns. I've said before his comments don't matter to me, but they might to the Giants. The Giants also traditionally interview and spend time with players who they think have such concerns.
In fact I do stand corrected; just re-read the actual article itself and it was only Chris at the dinner. And that definitely changes the dynamic in the sense that it really isn't that big a deal that Tisch who lives in LA went to the dinner. At the same time, I do not believe it changes the overall conclusion that the fact that the Giants had 7-8 people at those pro days including Shumer, Shula, Abrams and Chris Mara is still pretty telling given everything else we know.
The article is just referencing the interview in which Eisen mentions John Mara and Rosen doesn't correct him (as Milton noted) so I think you had it right the first time :). Of course, Rosen may have just not realized and been mistaken but there's no evidence that it was Chris and not John.
and an epic disaster of a season to find ourselves in this position. With OBJ healthy all season, I'd bet we would have won a few of those games. The Gmen were just 2 wins away from the 8th pick in the draft. At 8, you aren't getting the QB that everyone wants.
and an epic disaster of a season to find ourselves in this position. With OBJ healthy all season, I'd bet we would have won a few of those games. The Gmen were just 2 wins away from the 8th pick in the draft. At 8, you aren't getting the QB that everyone wants.
This. There are plenty of opportunities to draft a Davis Webb. 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounder who could potentially be a starter in the league but has a ways to go. You could be wrong at 2 with a QB but at least you're getting your top (or maybe 2nd) choice and not a potential diamond in the rough after other teams have all picked through the better prospects
Nothing more IMO. Giants own the #2 pick and will look at all the top picks. They wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t.
Ding, ding.
+2. Rosen also has some "character" concerns. I've said before his comments don't matter to me, but they might to the Giants. The Giants also traditionally interview and spend time with players who they think have such concerns.
Bingo, over the years the players they have tended to have the greatest engagement with are the ones they have the most concerns about.
to suggest they are at least considering a QB at #2.
Enough? Everything seems to point to it. Our Owner allowed the best offensive player in our franchise to be benched, because he knows he's on the downside of his career. His deal was structured so that we can get out of his deal in 2019 with a pretty small amount no dead cap as opposed to the savings. Then he went out and got a HC that's a known QB guru. A guy whose turned chicken shit into chicken salad. That same HC said he wanted an OC that has history of working with QBs. We did that. Now both of our Owners are out in LA having dinner with one of if not the top QB prospect in the nation. I don't remember the last time our Owners have met with a top prospect. Eli? I'm not sure. Don't even recall hearing it.
I do know the Eagles Owner met with Wentz before the draft to give the ok on making him the face of the franchise. The Browns Owner has now been at Sam Darnold's & Josh Allen's Pro Day. Seems like only one reason Owners are meeting with draft prospects and that's to make sure they can make that QB the face of the franchise.
My issue with you is saying "all the evidence points to them taking qb". Um no it doesn't. Kim Jones, the best reporter out there imo- and well connected to giants, says her info is they won't go qb. Paul Schwartz too, even pat leonard, who wants them to go qb, thinks the evidence says they won't. Paul Dottino as well. I can lost many others. Look the giants just signed a good, Not great, 29 year old tackle for huge money. They also bought back eli manning. I'm also telling you If Eli plays well he will be allowed to keep his job at least. The evidence out there is plenty. Imo you just aren't seeing it or don't want too. Look if I'm wrong ill admit it but to say that all the evidence points to qb is 100 percent inaccurate imo
My issue with you is saying "all the evidence points to them taking qb". Um no it doesn't. Kim Jones, the best reporter out there imo- and well connected to giants, says her info is they won't go qb. Paul Schwartz too, even pat leonard, who wants them to go qb, thinks the evidence says they won't. Paul Dottino as well. I can lost many others. Look the giants just signed a good, Not great, 29 year old tackle for huge money. They also bought back eli manning. I'm also telling you If Eli plays well he will be allowed to keep his job at least. The evidence out there is plenty. Imo you just aren't seeing it or don't want too. Look if I'm wrong ill admit it but to say that all the evidence points to qb is 100 percent inaccurate imo
It does though. Stop going by what reporters say. Have they been right about anything the Giants have done this offseason? Nope not really.
My post above points to why they are going to take a QB. They benched Eli to look at a career backup (Geno) and a late 3rd round pick who came from a spread offense (Webb). So obviously Mara doesn't think as highly of Eli as you do.
To support your narrative. Kim Jones is a Penn State fan and borderline unprofessional with her love for Barkley. It's actually quite weird. Schwartz & Leonard are fucking terrible.
There are plenty of better Giants reporters who think they go QB. Art Stapleton, Dan Duggan, Ralph Vacchiano & Jordan Ranaan think they go QB. Both Vacchiano & Ranaan have been more right then wrong when it comes to our first round pick. They've certainly been better at predicting our picks then Jones, Leonard & Schwartz.
The owner also said he wanted others evaluated, not benched, and reinstated him. They have committed to eli. If you don't see that you have blinders on. The plan is to win now. Also your argument is I don't agree w others like Kim Jones Dottino and countless others so there wrong. Then because you Colin and others all agree so there info is right. The reality is, weather you like it or not, there's a better chance they try to win now and eli finishes his contract as a giant then not. I stand by my opinion on this. Well see
My issue with you is saying "all the evidence points to them taking qb". Um no it doesn't. Kim Jones, the best reporter out there imo- and well connected to giants, says her info is they won't go qb. Paul Schwartz too, even pat leonard, who wants them to go qb, thinks the evidence says they won't. Paul Dottino as well. I can lost many others. Look the giants just signed a good, Not great, 29 year old tackle for huge money. They also bought back eli manning. I'm also telling you If Eli plays well he will be allowed to keep his job at least. The evidence out there is plenty. Imo you just aren't seeing it or don't want too. Look if I'm wrong ill admit it but to say that all the evidence points to qb is 100 percent inaccurate imo
The evidence seems quite mixed IMO and depending on what we want to believe we’re likely to sway that way. None of those reporters have strong track records on this stuff (Jones is good at breaking news but that’s typically through agent relationships). Certainly not this offseason and no one had Engram except for BBI’s own Hitdog.
My guess is that anything reporters are getting are from scouts (Raanan said as much yesterday) and it’s never clear if reporters are using others reporting the same as more evidence despite the fact that they may have the source.
The majority of those scouts are likely to be looking for new jobs in a few months. If you were Gettlemen would you give any of them any inkling as to what you’re leaning towards, especially given what happened two years ago with Floyd and Conklin? I certainly wouldn’t and he doesn’t seem like a dummy. The inner circle of folks who would know given Reese and Ross’ firings and the scouts that are unlikely to be retained is quite small. None of which would appear to be the type to leak info to the press for any reason aside from spreading misinformation. By that I mean that usually when things that are factual are leaked it’s because of a junior level front office guy trying to advance their career by getting in the good graces of the press.
Raanan doesn't think they go qb. Second he listed like 10 possible players the giants would pick last year. Engram wasn't even on the list. Third- Kim Jones is widely considered not a good but great reporter and has many sources. I could go on but your the one, not me, picking the narrative of what you want to believe
To support your narrative. Kim Jones is a Penn State fan and borderline unprofessional with her love for Barkley. It's actually quite weird. Schwartz & Leonard are fucking terrible.
There are plenty of better Giants reporters who think they go QB. Art Stapleton, Dan Duggan, Ralph Vacchiano & Jordan Ranaan think they go QB. Both Vacchiano & Ranaan have been more right then wrong when it comes to our first round pick. They've certainly been better at predicting our picks then Jones, Leonard & Schwartz.
I agree with your overall point but it’s worth pointing out that Raanan thinks their board is 1. Darnold and 2. Barkley and Darnold is likely to go 1 in which case his belief is that they’ll take Barkley. Doesn’t mean he’s right as I’m reminded of last year when he laughed at a fan on his Periscope who said they’d take Engram and responded with a snarky comment along the lines of “if you knew anything about what the Giants look for in tight ends you’d know there’s no chance they take Engram in the first”
It’ll be interesting when the reporters find which players like Rosen Â
to suggest they are at least considering a QB at #2.
Enough? Everything seems to point to it. Our Owner allowed the best offensive player in our franchise to be benched, because he knows he's on the downside of his career. His deal was structured so that we can get out of his deal in 2019 with a pretty small amount no dead cap as opposed to the savings. Then he went out and got a HC that's a known QB guru. A guy whose turned chicken shit into chicken salad. That same HC said he wanted an OC that has history of working with QBs. We did that. Now both of our Owners are out in LA having dinner with one of if not the top QB prospect in the nation. I don't remember the last time our Owners have met with a top prospect. Eli? I'm not sure. Don't even recall hearing it.
I do know the Eagles Owner met with Wentz before the draft to give the ok on making him the face of the franchise. The Browns Owner has now been at Sam Darnold's & Josh Allen's Pro Day. Seems like only one reason Owners are meeting with draft prospects and that's to make sure they can make that QB the face of the franchise.
The other sign was not trading down to 6 with the Jets and picking up a bunch of extra 2nds. If you’re building to win now, that deal is a no brainer. JPP trade came out of the blue and as Eric said, the evidence was staring us all in the face. That seems to be the case here aside from what a handful of reporters say
I was just responding to it to say not to use reporters to support one side. There are plenty of good reporters that think the other way.
My main point is don't use our writers at all. NONE of them have been right about anything since Gettleman got here. If you look at our coaching hires and free agents they didn't break any of those signings/hiring. They literally didn't even break news on visits. For example Cody Latimer was in NY for 2 days visiting the Giants. Not a single peep about it. It's been like that for all of our hiring and signings since Gettleman got here.
Well agree to disagree. Like I said earlier. No matter what Gettleman does there's going to be a lot of kissed off people. We are a fan base divided. Of that there is no doubt
I employer all of you to also check out mayocks view on the kid. He isn't a fan at all.
I thought he threw the ball beautifully. By the way, not a surprise. The most natural thrower in the draft. Clear feet. Clear vision. He’s beautiful. His issue is going to be, in my opinion, durability and the ability to survive in the NFL pocket.
Listen to the wfan audio and you will understand what I mean. He flat out said he doesn't think he can hold up physically in nfl and said if you take him you need a top line offensive line. Had big concerns about him
So I guess all those workouts and meetings with Baker Mayfield must mean they’re seriouslu considering him right? It’s due diligence and if anything you can make the argument that the ownership wanted to meet with this guy because of all the reports they’ve gotten about his lack of desire to play football. Maybe they don’t have to meet with Darnold or Barkley because they know that’s not even a possibility with them.
You see what you want to see but to take this and say they’re all in is stretching it at best.
Lack of desire to play football? The guy who walked on and started as a freshman at Texas Tech? And then walked on and started at Oklahoma? THAT guy?
Josh Rosen should be able to survive in the pocket Â
So I guess all those workouts and meetings with Baker Mayfield must mean they’re seriouslu considering him right? It’s due diligence and if anything you can make the argument that the ownership wanted to meet with this guy because of all the reports they’ve gotten about his lack of desire to play football. Maybe they don’t have to meet with Darnold or Barkley because they know that’s not even a possibility with them.
You see what you want to see but to take this and say they’re all in is stretching it at best.
Lack of desire to play football? The guy who walked on and started as a freshman at Texas Tech? And then walked on and started at Oklahoma? THAT guy?
I think the "lack of desire" part was regarding Rosen.
It's plain as day that we need a QB. Our QB is 42-54 over the last 6 years with no playoff wins. He's clearly not what he once was and it's not going to get better the older he gets. He's 37 with 2 years left on his contract. What are they going to do resign a 39 year old QB for 20+ million a year? Most likely we won't be picking top 2 again. Maybe around 10.
So we draft a RB this year. We win 5-6 games. We end up picking somewhere between 10-15. Then we have to use a huge amount t of resources to trade up for a franchise QB. While spending 23.2 million on a 39 year old. After trading up we don't have the resources to fill holes on the roster nor do we have the money because Eli is making a shitload. That's one option.
The other is taking advantage of this horrible season. Drafting a QB at 2. Letting him learn from Eli for a year and then moving on. You save 17 million in 2019 plus we have all of our draft picks in 2019 & 2020 to build around our new franchise QB.
People need to take their Eli loyalty out of this. I love him. He's been the QB for half my life. Favorite Giants player ever. If you can't see which option is best for the franchise you either don't know football (Not you personally JT) or just want to ignore what's best for the team because of the loyalty to Eli.
There are many people in the league who disagree w you though. Has nothing to do with loyalty toward eli. I think he'll have a real good season. What if the giants win 10 games and your wrong. I truly believe reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated. If he plays well and your wrong about the team are you ok with the number 2 pick in the draft sitting 2 years? Honest question. Mara didn't get rid of eli after last year. You think he's get rid of him off a good year. Even if you disagree. What if I'm right. Are you ok w a kid sitting 2 years?
Also if Gettleman doesn't take a qb will you blame it on mars? Or will you just lose respect for dg? We don't agree here but I truly respect your insight so I'm curious
People, reasonable people, can simply come to different conclusions and it has * nothing* whatsoever to do with Eli. Eli has simply become the straw man which people must have to reconcile in their own skulls how someone could possibly go against their own way of thinking. Only because of Eli would the rabble dare to dream of independence.
hes irrelevant to many, if not most, people’s rationales for prioritizing something other than a QB at #2. But he’s the straw man that apparently stirs the drink.
Not sure I follow. Are you stating that the Eli-opinions Â
It’s mostly the take JAQB people saying those arguing trade, Barkley, Nelson, are doing it out of some misguided loyalty to Eli as opposed to the people actually arguing for the non-QB path.
I wouldn't mind having a drafted QB sit for a year or two... Â
That leaves Rosen as the only viable QB option at #2. I have said he is the best player in the draft. His mechanics are beautiful and repeatable. He already reads defenses extremely well. But his injury history includes two recent concussions, and he missed the last 12 of his last 20 games IIRC. His father is also a neurosurgeon. Too big a risk at #2.
This has nothing to do with Eli or Webb. I'd absolutely take a QB at #2 if one was the BPA. I just don't think one is, including Darnold, although he'd certainly be the best of the "big three."
and just look at how the draft is unfolding. Teams are fighting for the right to take one of these QB's, yet Giants fans don't think they are good enough. Why is that? All of the people in the media ranking these guys and making mocks seem to think these QB's are worthy of going early in the draft. Their pro days were very active, teams are saying mostly great things about them. I think the majority of the opinions by Giants fans are because they want to give Eli another chance at the end and that's a dangerous long term persepective, IMO.
That leaves Rosen as the only viable QB option at #2. I have said he is the best player in the draft. His mechanics are beautiful and repeatable. He already reads defenses extremely well. But his injury history includes two recent concussions, and he missed the last 12 of his last 20 games IIRC. His father is also a neurosurgeon. Too big a risk at #2.
This has nothing to do with Eli or Webb. I'd absolutely take a QB at #2 if one was the BPA. I just don't think one is, including Darnold, although he'd certainly be the best of the "big three."
FYI - Rosen’s father is an orthopedic spine surgeon.
QBs should not be looked as BPA. They are MIPs...most important players.
and just look at how the draft is unfolding. Teams are fighting for the right to take one of these QB's, yet Giants fans don't think they are good enough. Why is that? All of the people in the media ranking these guys and making mocks seem to think these QB's are worthy of going early in the draft. Their pro days were very active, teams are saying mostly great things about them. I think the majority of the opinions by Giants fans are because they want to give Eli another chance at the end and that's a dangerous long term persepective, IMO.
again, that’s tranferrence. There’s multiple sets of calculus to get to someone other than a QB at number 2. It’s unlikely that fidelity to Eli plays much of a role in many of them.
That leaves Rosen as the only viable QB option at #2. I have said he is the best player in the draft. His mechanics are beautiful and repeatable. He already reads defenses extremely well. But his injury history includes two recent concussions, and he missed the last 12 of his last 20 games IIRC. His father is also a neurosurgeon. Too big a risk at #2.
This has nothing to do with Eli or Webb. I'd absolutely take a QB at #2 if one was the BPA. I just don't think one is, including Darnold, although he'd certainly be the best of the "big three."
I agree with you about Rosen. Too risky for me also but to be fair, he didn't miss 12 of his last 20 games. Yes he missed some of those but truth is he either missed completely, didn't finish, or missed time in 12 of his last 20 games.
Either way he's far from what we've become accustomed to with Eli, and I know I'd have a hard time going from an Iron Man to Rosen. I'd be holding my breath every time he drops back to pass.
He's coming off his second season lost to a shoulder injury. As for concussions, here's a blurb from 2011....
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Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers believes a new, high-tech helmet prevented him from sustaining his third concussion of the season during Sunday’s NFC Championship Game win over the Bears, SI.com reported Tuesday.
Rodgers was walloped early in the fourth quarter by Chicago defensive end Julius Peppers, with Peppers’ helmet hitting Rodgers in the head and lifting his helmet up.
Rodgers appeared shaken initially, but said he was not woozy after the game. Peppers was flagged for a 15-yard penalty in accordance with the NFL’s ban on helmet-to-helmet hits.
"That was lucky,” Rodgers told Sports Illustrated’s Peter King. "As much as the new helmet feels uncomfortable and I’m still getting used to it, I’m really happy I was wearing it on that hit.”
"It hurt, I can tell you that. He hit me pretty good. I know what a concussion feels like. I’m just grateful this wasn’t hard enough to give me another one.”
Rodgers has already sustained two concussions this season. The first occurred in overtime of a loss at Washington on Oct. 10, though Rodgers played the following week.
The second happened in the second quarter of a 7-3 loss at Detroit on Dec. 12, and Rodgers missed the next game at New England.
And yet the Packers are all set to make him the highest paid player in NFL history, the only hold up being that they are waiting on Matt Ryan to become the highest player so that they can top it.
Granted he's Aaron Rodgers and Josh Rosen is only Josh Rosen; but Rosen won't cost $30M/year and Rosen has 15-20 years of football ahead of him, Rodgers only has roughly five years left in him (give or take a year or two).
Meanwhile we have career backups like Josh McCown getting $10M/year and the definition of average getting in the neighborhood $18M/year (Bortles, Keenum) and the always injured Sam Bradford getting $15M guaranteed on a one year deal that pays an additional $5M in playing time incentives. That's how much money teams value the QB position while the highest paid RB in the league, Le'Veon Bell, makes less money and is forced to play for pay one year at a time.
Sure, the price tag for missing with a QB pick in the top five can be a painful process, but the reward for being right about him more than makes up for the risks. If you are presented with a 10 to 1 payout on a horse with 2 to 1 odds, you place that bet (assuming you have the cash to lay out in the first place).
My issue with you is saying "all the evidence points to them taking qb". Um no it doesn't. Kim Jones, the best reporter out there imo- and well connected to giants, says her info is they won't go qb. Paul Schwartz too, even pat leonard, who wants them to go qb, thinks the evidence says they won't. Paul Dottino as well. I can lost many others. Look the giants just signed a good, Not great, 29 year old tackle for huge money. They also bought back eli manning. I'm also telling you If Eli plays well he will be allowed to keep his job at least. The evidence out there is plenty. Imo you just aren't seeing it or don't want too. Look if I'm wrong ill admit it but to say that all the evidence points to qb is 100 percent inaccurate imo
Yea but so far none of these people mentioned or the beat writers have got anything right ..... only La Canfora has really been on the money
That leaves Rosen as the only viable QB option at #2. I have said he is the best player in the draft. His mechanics are beautiful and repeatable. He already reads defenses extremely well. But his injury history includes two recent concussions, and he missed the last 12 of his last 20 games IIRC. His father is also a neurosurgeon. Too big a risk at #2.
This has nothing to do with Eli or Webb. I'd absolutely take a QB at #2 if one was the BPA. I just don't think one is, including Darnold, although he'd certainly be the best of the "big three."
I agree with you about Rosen. Too risky for me also but to be fair, he didn't miss 12 of his last 20 games. Yes he missed some of those but truth is he either missed completely, didn't finish, or missed time in 12 of his last 20 games.
Either way he's far from what we've become accustomed to with Eli, and I know I'd have a hard time going from an Iron Man to Rosen. I'd be holding my breath every time he drops back to pass.
Eli very rarely takes direct hits to front of his body because for years now he’s been throwing the ball and turning his back at the same time he’s become a master at it hence the Iron man..... the only problem with that is it affects his accuracy and cause interceptions .....
It was obvious after the fact even though all the signs were there.
You see what you want to see but to take this and say they’re all in is stretching it at best.
Ding, ding.
I'd say the same, but Mara/Tisch going to dinner with Rosen does seem like a big deal. Like how often has that happened? Seems like they are sold on his talent but really want to see if he is a fit for the organization.
So, my friend heads the Rabies testing lab here and they got the remains of the raccoon. Yeah, it had rabies. But they’re getting all sorts of phone calls and complaints from random people saying that the poor raccoon couldn’t possibly have rabies, that the test was wrong, that they are covering for the police, etc., etc., etc.
Point being, that the raccoon, who was potentially lethal while alive, became a victim through the nature of his death. And because of that victimization, people refused to believe results of objective testing analysis. Their own worldview caused them to ignore everything but what they wanted to believe and then to either deny or morph everything, supportive or contrary to their view, into something that validated their view.
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this information. It’s so obvious to me that this is what the Giants primary focus is.
To be fair, you seem to see what you want to see. Nothing unusual; I think most people do that.
Possibly, but what else is there to see? The owner said it last year(in november) and it appears all of their resources have gone towards the qb’s. Ownership as well as the coaching staff and FO have gone to the qb pro days. I’m not sure what else there is to see.
So, my friend heads the Rabies testing lab here and they got the remains of the raccoon. Yeah, it had rabies. But they’re getting all sorts of phone calls and complaints from random people saying that the poor raccoon couldn’t possibly have rabies, that the test was wrong, that they are covering for the police, etc., etc., etc.
Point being, that the raccoon, who was potentially lethal while alive, became a victim through the nature of his death. And because of that victimization, people refused to believe results of objective testing analysis. Their own worldview caused them to ignore everything but what they wanted to believe and then to either deny or morph everything, supportive or contrary to their view, into something that validated their view.
There is a lot of that on BBI these days
So, my friend heads the Rabies testing lab here and they got the remains of the raccoon. Yeah, it had rabies. But they’re getting all sorts of phone calls and complaints from random people saying that the poor raccoon couldn’t possibly have rabies, that the test was wrong, that they are covering for the police, etc., etc., etc.
Point being, that the raccoon, who was potentially lethal while alive, became a victim through the nature of his death. And because of that victimization, people refused to believe results of objective testing analysis. Their own worldview caused them to ignore everything but what they wanted to believe and then to either deny or morph everything, supportive or contrary to their view, into something that validated their view.
Rocky Raccoon checked into his room
Only to find Gideon's bible
Rocky had come equipped with a gun
To shoot off the legs of his rival
His rival it seems had broken his dreams
By stealing the girl of his fancy
Her name was Magil and she called herself Lil
But everyone knew her as Nancy
Now she and her man who called himself Dan
Were in the next room at the hoe down
Rocky burst in and grinning a grin
He said Danny boy this is a showdown
But Daniel was hot, he drew first and shot
And Rocky collapsed in the corner, ah
You see what you want to see but to take this and say they’re all in is stretching it at best.
Yes it seems much better to on tbe word of Jordan Raanan, Chris Canty & JonC
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We've hired the QB whisperer. Let him do what he is brought here to do. Develop the next franchise QB.
But did we hire a QB whisperer? Or did we hire a head coach who we thought was the best fit or best hire or who could take this team places *and* as an auxiliary benefit had a reputation of making decent QBs much more than they were? I think that those are different things.
Just meant that its a strength of his, similar to Doug Pederson. Giants need a culture enema, so hope he and DG can flush that quickly. But his side hustle is as a QB guru.
Yes, it’s Darnold or Rosen.
Pretty obviously the most sensible approach and Gettleman is a sensible, unattached (i.e., emotionally, to Eli or any one player) GM.
Writing’s been on the wall for a while now.
Gettleman is in for the long haul and to astute to believe he should build around Eli and Webb.
I checked Mayock's view. He seems like a fan.
Link - ( New Window )
Exactly!
What we don't know though is whether Mara and/or Tisch also went to dinner etc with either Darnold or Allen such that it is still possible the latter still might be in the debate. The other kind of interesting thing is that Gettleman himself wasn't part of the traveling group which suggests either that they are really locked in a particular player or if not then the choice may come down to which guy Shumer/Shula are most comfortable working with.
And as I have said earlier to me the really interesting aspect of the Giants draft will be what they do in the 2nd and 3rd rounds as there are a lot of quality second-day players who really fit their needs. And if 5-6 QBs do go in the opening round then the should get some looks at some first-round quality players with the 34th pick.
p.s.--Mayock is just shilling for CAA, who represents both Allen and Darnold (and Mayock, too). CAA clients stick together, it's part of their formula for success dating back to their foundation in the 90's. Don't let agents and talking heads tell you how to think!!!
Wonder why Mara didn't include that football romantic Accorsi...that would seal it if he was there... ;)
My gut is Darnold has been their guy, and all along. But with Cleveland seemingly honed in on Darnold, then they need to do a much deeper dive on Rosen and Allen...
The plan was to always take a QB with #2 pick, as they knew and most are coming to grips now, that this crop of QBs are worth taking seriously.
And to the extent that QB is mature enough and develops his pro-game quickly enough, may very well beat out Eli for the job in September, or shortly thereafter if he continues his decline.
stay tuned...
So, my friend heads the Rabies testing lab here and they got the remains of the raccoon. Yeah, it had rabies. But they’re getting all sorts of phone calls and complaints from random people saying that the poor raccoon couldn’t possibly have rabies, that the test was wrong, that they are covering for the police, etc., etc., etc.
Point being, that the raccoon, who was potentially lethal while alive, became a victim through the nature of his death. And because of that victimization, people refused to believe results of objective testing analysis. Their own worldview caused them to ignore everything but what they wanted to believe and then to either deny or morph everything, supportive or contrary to their view, into something that validated their view.
It's good, reasonable speculation.
here's the link to the interview with Rosen - ( New Window )
You ever hear that awesome story about the raccoon?
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Is telling. He's not involved in scouting, he's not flying across the country to have dinner with a kid as part of "due diligence". Rosen is on the shortlist.
John Mara wasn't there, it was Chris Mara. Colin read it wrong.
Ah gotcha, that changes things a little bit given their organizational roles. Still shows interest but John Mara being there vs Chris is another animal.
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Nothing more IMO. Giants own the #2 pick and will look at all the top picks. They wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t.
I'd say the same, but Mara/Tisch going to dinner with Rosen does seem like a big deal. Like how often has that happened? Seems like they are sold on his talent but really want to see if he is a fit for the organization.
If you look at the same page and scroll down to the post about the ND pro day, you will see that the Giants took Nelson out to dinner too. The page also notes that the Giants took a big contingent to see Allen too.
These visits are a rorschach test for fans. Everyone sees something different but are absolutely sure of what they see to the exclusion of anything else.
The reality is that the Giants know that they will have their choice of 3-7 guys their scouts and draft staff tell them are the top talents. The Browns will probably take one of them, leaving the rest to the Giants. The Giants would be making a massive mistake if they did not take every possible step to identify who best fits what they want.
Something else to remember about ownership and meeting with the players. Tisch knows next to nothing about football- he's in it for the investment and name value. Mara is not his father, and is looking to reverse the stain that the last season put on the franchise. Their role in decision making is minimal at best.
With that said, remember that the entire draft process is to obtain as much insight into a player as possible. One of Rosen's big knocks is that he is considered "cocky" and "aloof." The use of ownership would be to put the player in front of non-football people who are into the business side evaluation of people to find what their assessment of Rosen's people skills are.
This is all a LONG way of saying that while nothing will stop the wild speculation of people seeing something specific that you cannot shake them from when presented with an inkblot, FAR TOO MANY people here have lost sight of what the pre-draft process is for. It is not to telegraph moves or to signal where the team is going- it is to maximize their knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of each prospect so that the team hopefully has enough information to make what it hopes to be an accurate ranking of each of the prospects so that when draft day comes, the can make what they hope to be the right choice.
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John Mara & Steve Tisch were both there according to an interview with Josh Rosen. He's a smart kid. Doubt he mixed up Chris & John.
here's the link to the interview with Rosen - ( New Window )
What I am saying, though, is that all the evidence out there right now points to the Giants taking a QB with the #2 pick and as far as I can tell there is almost nothing out there to suggest that they are doing anything else. If people do have some other evidence other than to suggest that the evidence that is out there is a smoke screen I'd love to hear it and we'll modify our theory.
And if the Giants do go in another direction I'll be the first to say 'wow did we get that wrong'. And we'll file that info away for future reference.
PS Not sure if it has been cleared up, but likely both John and Chris Mara were part of that dinner with Rosen. Chris was part of the original scouting group with Shumer and Abrams et al and presumably they would have been at the dinner along with John and Tisch.
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I'm referring to his post in this thread. I,possible to read that and not take it a Colin stating as a fact they go qb
You ever hear that awesome story about the raccoon?
Whatever. Besides the human psychology aspect, I probably just saved your life. And, you that bought you would just be getting a free pet.
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Nothing more IMO. Giants own the #2 pick and will look at all the top picks. They wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t.
Ding, ding.
+2. Rosen also has some "character" concerns. I've said before his comments don't matter to me, but they might to the Giants. The Giants also traditionally interview and spend time with players who they think have such concerns.
The article is just referencing the interview in which Eisen mentions John Mara and Rosen doesn't correct him (as Milton noted) so I think you had it right the first time :). Of course, Rosen may have just not realized and been mistaken but there's no evidence that it was Chris and not John.
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In comment 13884222 jtgiants said:
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I'm referring to his post in this thread. I,possible to read that and not take it a Colin stating as a fact they go qb
You ever hear that awesome story about the raccoon?
.
Whatever. Besides the human psychology aspect, I probably just saved your life. And, you that bought you would just be getting a free pet.
Lol. Thx?
maybe, but then be prepared for a long 2018 season while we do the same song and dance about picking a QB a year from now.
watch as they all go flying off the board in the top 10...
This. There are plenty of opportunities to draft a Davis Webb. 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounder who could potentially be a starter in the league but has a ways to go. You could be wrong at 2 with a QB but at least you're getting your top (or maybe 2nd) choice and not a potential diamond in the rough after other teams have all picked through the better prospects
Ha! My pleasure Colin.
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In comment 13884039 NYG_Jase said:
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Nothing more IMO. Giants own the #2 pick and will look at all the top picks. They wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t.
Ding, ding.
+2. Rosen also has some "character" concerns. I've said before his comments don't matter to me, but they might to the Giants. The Giants also traditionally interview and spend time with players who they think have such concerns.
Bingo, over the years the players they have tended to have the greatest engagement with are the ones they have the most concerns about.
Enough? Everything seems to point to it. Our Owner allowed the best offensive player in our franchise to be benched, because he knows he's on the downside of his career. His deal was structured so that we can get out of his deal in 2019 with a pretty small amount no dead cap as opposed to the savings. Then he went out and got a HC that's a known QB guru. A guy whose turned chicken shit into chicken salad. That same HC said he wanted an OC that has history of working with QBs. We did that. Now both of our Owners are out in LA having dinner with one of if not the top QB prospect in the nation. I don't remember the last time our Owners have met with a top prospect. Eli? I'm not sure. Don't even recall hearing it.
I do know the Eagles Owner met with Wentz before the draft to give the ok on making him the face of the franchise. The Browns Owner has now been at Sam Darnold's & Josh Allen's Pro Day. Seems like only one reason Owners are meeting with draft prospects and that's to make sure they can make that QB the face of the franchise.
It does though. Stop going by what reporters say. Have they been right about anything the Giants have done this offseason? Nope not really.
My post above points to why they are going to take a QB. They benched Eli to look at a career backup (Geno) and a late 3rd round pick who came from a spread offense (Webb). So obviously Mara doesn't think as highly of Eli as you do.
There are plenty of better Giants reporters who think they go QB. Art Stapleton, Dan Duggan, Ralph Vacchiano & Jordan Ranaan think they go QB. Both Vacchiano & Ranaan have been more right then wrong when it comes to our first round pick. They've certainly been better at predicting our picks then Jones, Leonard & Schwartz.
The evidence seems quite mixed IMO and depending on what we want to believe we’re likely to sway that way. None of those reporters have strong track records on this stuff (Jones is good at breaking news but that’s typically through agent relationships). Certainly not this offseason and no one had Engram except for BBI’s own Hitdog.
My guess is that anything reporters are getting are from scouts (Raanan said as much yesterday) and it’s never clear if reporters are using others reporting the same as more evidence despite the fact that they may have the source.
The majority of those scouts are likely to be looking for new jobs in a few months. If you were Gettlemen would you give any of them any inkling as to what you’re leaning towards, especially given what happened two years ago with Floyd and Conklin? I certainly wouldn’t and he doesn’t seem like a dummy. The inner circle of folks who would know given Reese and Ross’ firings and the scouts that are unlikely to be retained is quite small. None of which would appear to be the type to leak info to the press for any reason aside from spreading misinformation. By that I mean that usually when things that are factual are leaked it’s because of a junior level front office guy trying to advance their career by getting in the good graces of the press.
That is a HUGE red flag.
Ever think that for these QBs they are putting on a show to keep it here teams guessing and worrying?
There are plenty of better Giants reporters who think they go QB. Art Stapleton, Dan Duggan, Ralph Vacchiano & Jordan Ranaan think they go QB. Both Vacchiano & Ranaan have been more right then wrong when it comes to our first round pick. They've certainly been better at predicting our picks then Jones, Leonard & Schwartz.
I agree with your overall point but it’s worth pointing out that Raanan thinks their board is 1. Darnold and 2. Barkley and Darnold is likely to go 1 in which case his belief is that they’ll take Barkley. Doesn’t mean he’s right as I’m reminded of last year when he laughed at a fan on his Periscope who said they’d take Engram and responded with a snarky comment along the lines of “if you knew anything about what the Giants look for in tight ends you’d know there’s no chance they take Engram in the first”
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to suggest they are at least considering a QB at #2.
Enough? Everything seems to point to it. Our Owner allowed the best offensive player in our franchise to be benched, because he knows he's on the downside of his career. His deal was structured so that we can get out of his deal in 2019 with a pretty small amount no dead cap as opposed to the savings. Then he went out and got a HC that's a known QB guru. A guy whose turned chicken shit into chicken salad. That same HC said he wanted an OC that has history of working with QBs. We did that. Now both of our Owners are out in LA having dinner with one of if not the top QB prospect in the nation. I don't remember the last time our Owners have met with a top prospect. Eli? I'm not sure. Don't even recall hearing it.
I do know the Eagles Owner met with Wentz before the draft to give the ok on making him the face of the franchise. The Browns Owner has now been at Sam Darnold's & Josh Allen's Pro Day. Seems like only one reason Owners are meeting with draft prospects and that's to make sure they can make that QB the face of the franchise.
The other sign was not trading down to 6 with the Jets and picking up a bunch of extra 2nds. If you’re building to win now, that deal is a no brainer. JPP trade came out of the blue and as Eric said, the evidence was staring us all in the face. That seems to be the case here aside from what a handful of reporters say
My main point is don't use our writers at all. NONE of them have been right about anything since Gettleman got here. If you look at our coaching hires and free agents they didn't break any of those signings/hiring. They literally didn't even break news on visits. For example Cody Latimer was in NY for 2 days visiting the Giants. Not a single peep about it. It's been like that for all of our hiring and signings since Gettleman got here.
I thought he threw the ball beautifully. By the way, not a surprise. The most natural thrower in the draft. Clear feet. Clear vision. He’s beautiful. His issue is going to be, in my opinion, durability and the ability to survive in the NFL pocket.
This is "not a fan at all" to you?
You see what you want to see but to take this and say they’re all in is stretching it at best.
Lack of desire to play football? The guy who walked on and started as a freshman at Texas Tech? And then walked on and started at Oklahoma? THAT guy?
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So I guess all those workouts and meetings with Baker Mayfield must mean they’re seriouslu considering him right? It’s due diligence and if anything you can make the argument that the ownership wanted to meet with this guy because of all the reports they’ve gotten about his lack of desire to play football. Maybe they don’t have to meet with Darnold or Barkley because they know that’s not even a possibility with them.
You see what you want to see but to take this and say they’re all in is stretching it at best.
Lack of desire to play football? The guy who walked on and started as a freshman at Texas Tech? And then walked on and started at Oklahoma? THAT guy?
I think the "lack of desire" part was regarding Rosen.
So we draft a RB this year. We win 5-6 games. We end up picking somewhere between 10-15. Then we have to use a huge amount t of resources to trade up for a franchise QB. While spending 23.2 million on a 39 year old. After trading up we don't have the resources to fill holes on the roster nor do we have the money because Eli is making a shitload. That's one option.
The other is taking advantage of this horrible season. Drafting a QB at 2. Letting him learn from Eli for a year and then moving on. You save 17 million in 2019 plus we have all of our draft picks in 2019 & 2020 to build around our new franchise QB.
People need to take their Eli loyalty out of this. I love him. He's been the QB for half my life. Favorite Giants player ever. If you can't see which option is best for the franchise you either don't know football (Not you personally JT) or just want to ignore what's best for the team because of the loyalty to Eli.
The punishment is death?
People, reasonable people, can simply come to different conclusions and it has * nothing* whatsoever to do with Eli. Eli has simply become the straw man which people must have to reconcile in their own skulls how someone could possibly go against their own way of thinking. Only because of Eli would the rabble dare to dream of independence.
That leaves Rosen as the only viable QB option at #2. I have said he is the best player in the draft. His mechanics are beautiful and repeatable. He already reads defenses extremely well. But his injury history includes two recent concussions, and he missed the last 12 of his last 20 games IIRC. His father is also a neurosurgeon. Too big a risk at #2.
This has nothing to do with Eli or Webb. I'd absolutely take a QB at #2 if one was the BPA. I just don't think one is, including Darnold, although he'd certainly be the best of the "big three."
That leaves Rosen as the only viable QB option at #2. I have said he is the best player in the draft. His mechanics are beautiful and repeatable. He already reads defenses extremely well. But his injury history includes two recent concussions, and he missed the last 12 of his last 20 games IIRC. His father is also a neurosurgeon. Too big a risk at #2.
This has nothing to do with Eli or Webb. I'd absolutely take a QB at #2 if one was the BPA. I just don't think one is, including Darnold, although he'd certainly be the best of the "big three."
FYI - Rosen’s father is an orthopedic spine surgeon.
QBs should not be looked as BPA. They are MIPs...most important players.
That leaves Rosen as the only viable QB option at #2. I have said he is the best player in the draft. His mechanics are beautiful and repeatable. He already reads defenses extremely well. But his injury history includes two recent concussions, and he missed the last 12 of his last 20 games IIRC. His father is also a neurosurgeon. Too big a risk at #2.
This has nothing to do with Eli or Webb. I'd absolutely take a QB at #2 if one was the BPA. I just don't think one is, including Darnold, although he'd certainly be the best of the "big three."
I agree with you about Rosen. Too risky for me also but to be fair, he didn't miss 12 of his last 20 games. Yes he missed some of those but truth is he either missed completely, didn't finish, or missed time in 12 of his last 20 games.
Either way he's far from what we've become accustomed to with Eli, and I know I'd have a hard time going from an Iron Man to Rosen. I'd be holding my breath every time he drops back to pass.
Rodgers was walloped early in the fourth quarter by Chicago defensive end Julius Peppers, with Peppers’ helmet hitting Rodgers in the head and lifting his helmet up.
Rodgers appeared shaken initially, but said he was not woozy after the game. Peppers was flagged for a 15-yard penalty in accordance with the NFL’s ban on helmet-to-helmet hits.
"That was lucky,” Rodgers told Sports Illustrated’s Peter King. "As much as the new helmet feels uncomfortable and I’m still getting used to it, I’m really happy I was wearing it on that hit.”
"It hurt, I can tell you that. He hit me pretty good. I know what a concussion feels like. I’m just grateful this wasn’t hard enough to give me another one.”
Rodgers has already sustained two concussions this season. The first occurred in overtime of a loss at Washington on Oct. 10, though Rodgers played the following week.
The second happened in the second quarter of a 7-3 loss at Detroit on Dec. 12, and Rodgers missed the next game at New England.
And yet the Packers are all set to make him the highest paid player in NFL history, the only hold up being that they are waiting on Matt Ryan to become the highest player so that they can top it.
Granted he's Aaron Rodgers and Josh Rosen is only Josh Rosen; but Rosen won't cost $30M/year and Rosen has 15-20 years of football ahead of him, Rodgers only has roughly five years left in him (give or take a year or two).
Meanwhile we have career backups like Josh McCown getting $10M/year and the definition of average getting in the neighborhood $18M/year (Bortles, Keenum) and the always injured Sam Bradford getting $15M guaranteed on a one year deal that pays an additional $5M in playing time incentives. That's how much money teams value the QB position while the highest paid RB in the league, Le'Veon Bell, makes less money and is forced to play for pay one year at a time.
Sure, the price tag for missing with a QB pick in the top five can be a painful process, but the reward for being right about him more than makes up for the risks. If you are presented with a 10 to 1 payout on a horse with 2 to 1 odds, you place that bet (assuming you have the cash to lay out in the first place).
Yea but so far none of these people mentioned or the beat writers have got anything right ..... only La Canfora has really been on the money
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Browns will take Darnold.
That leaves Rosen as the only viable QB option at #2. I have said he is the best player in the draft. His mechanics are beautiful and repeatable. He already reads defenses extremely well. But his injury history includes two recent concussions, and he missed the last 12 of his last 20 games IIRC. His father is also a neurosurgeon. Too big a risk at #2.
This has nothing to do with Eli or Webb. I'd absolutely take a QB at #2 if one was the BPA. I just don't think one is, including Darnold, although he'd certainly be the best of the "big three."
I agree with you about Rosen. Too risky for me also but to be fair, he didn't miss 12 of his last 20 games. Yes he missed some of those but truth is he either missed completely, didn't finish, or missed time in 12 of his last 20 games.
Either way he's far from what we've become accustomed to with Eli, and I know I'd have a hard time going from an Iron Man to Rosen. I'd be holding my breath every time he drops back to pass.
Eli very rarely takes direct hits to front of his body because for years now he’s been throwing the ball and turning his back at the same time he’s become a master at it hence the Iron man..... the only problem with that is it affects his accuracy and cause interceptions .....