Been looking at this long and hard for weeks now. Drawing comparisons to D Webb vs Darnold, Rosen, and Allen. They say the game tape does lie right? Webb is ridiculously athletic... Rana 4.7 at combine then a 4.58 at pro day...After he scores a TD, he toughen up over guy who could not take him down prior to goal line too. So he has that feisty side of him that is getting in when he does make the attempt to run it on broken or resign play. I think he is aware of what happens to running QB as well as at TT he jacked his collar bone LH shoulder after a 10 yard run that had him mis out next season to Mahomes and he transferred to Cal after Goeff went to NFL only to light it up with 37 td to only 12 picks and 4300 breaking A Rodgers records and with only summer to learn new offense is pretty sick.
Noetheless here are the comparisons:
Davis Webb 6'5" 230 40 4.7 / 4.58.
comp: 382 att: 620 yrds 4300 comp % 62% 37 td 12 int QBR 135.6
Darnold: 6'3 220 40 4.85
Comp: 303 Att 480 yards 4143 63% 26td to 13 int (26 sacks) QBR: na
Josh Rosen: 6'4" 218 40 na
Comp: 283 Att: 452 3756 yards 62,6% 26TD to 10 int (26 sacks) 147QBR
Josh Allen: 6'5: 230 40 time:
Comp: 152 Atts: 270 1812 yards 56% 16td to 6 int (22 sacks) 127.8QBR
After seeing all the highlights of all 3 Id have to say Davis Webbs are right there. And he had the numbers to back it up only 12 ints for 620 attempts. Stands tall in pocket. There are some negatives of course we can all find on each player. It was said thru several teams he was first round caliber. Not sure why he slipped but he did. So did Arron Rodgers... Nonetheless, I really think the NYG know what they have in him. I believe its a smokescreen to pretend we need a QB. Maybe its all part of the plan. What if he played in last couple of games and did well. How much leverage do you think we have with negotiating if others know are trust is in D Webb? We lose a lot IMO.
I think the GM and HBC take BPA with Barkley ar #2 or use that leverage that spot with Denver at 5 or Jets at 3 and make a trade back 1-3 spots and still land a top tier talent Gold Jacket possible candidate in Barkely, Nelson or Chubb. DG Loves his DEF players early in R1 over the years. He typically takes his OL with 3rd pick too, so this could be our first pick in R3 or R2 pick if we trade with Buff as we would have 12,22 and 2 in the 2nd and 2 in the 3rd.
Im going to go out on a limb and say we trade with Buffalo and Keep D Webb as our guy.... Here is how first 12 picks unfold IMHO and other rounds for us.
Darnold,Rosen,Allen,Barkley,Mayfield, Chubb, V Vea, M Davenport, R. Smith, M Fitszpatrick, T. Edwards,
NYG Q. Nelson,...
Here is our realistic Mock based off trading with Bills: We received 12th,22nd and 53 pick as well as 2019 pick...
1:12 (from Bills) (OG) Q. Nelson ND
1:22 )from Bills) (OLB/ILB) L. Vander Esch Boise St
2:2 (WR) C. Kirk TAMU
2:21 (from Bills) (RB) N. Chubb UGA
3:4 (OT) K. Miller UCLA
3:9 (From TB) CB A. Averett ALA / C. Davis AUB / I. Oliver Col or (FS J. Reid Stan)
4:2 (QB). K. Lauletta (Richmond)
5:2 (P) Michael Dickson Texas (figured we rap it up with best punter in draft since we let gave waling papers to ours.
Before you go with that guy won't be there. BS. I have done hundreds of the mocks and players will slip thee are all realistic here. This is why i layer out the talent in R1 thru first 11 to show you very talented players go before an OG goes IMO. Martin fit not go til 15 i believe with Dallas and he had just as much hype. Its bc 4 Qb help push Q Nelson to 12 otherwise he is top 8 talent.
This Draft is really realistic. Our 2020 team could look like this.
LT Solder, LG Omameh C;Jones, RG Q. Nelson, RT K Miller, TE E. Engram
WR OBJ, QB D. Webb or Eli, RB, Chubb, Slot Shepard , WR Kirk
Defense"
OV LDE / Snacks NT/ and DE Mauro
OLB Ogletree / Goodson / and Vander Esch
CB Jack Rabbit /, Eli Apple / L Collins / and D. Thompson / Reid
Nickle/Dime Avereet/ Davis / Oliver
Thoughts...
Davis Webbs 2016 Cal Highlights 37 TD to 12 int 63% - (
New Window )
The difference between Webb's situation and Rodgers' is that in the latter case most mocks and experts had Rodgers as a high first rounder (see link below to Walter Football's where they call him the best QB in the draft). Plenty of people believed Rodgers was the best QB in the draft and nobody to my recollection believed he was anything but top 2. Webb was always looked at in the 4-7 range.
This wasn't the case of a guy in the green room that the camera kept panning to while experts questioned "what the hell is going on". The big knock on him was his height. Not to say Webb can't or won't become a very good pro QB but Webb going in the third round was a very different case
From Football Outsiders who ranked him #1 (and mocked him there):
Aaron Rodgers
California, 6-foot-2, 223 lbs.
Rodgers, who led California to a surprising 10-1 regular season, is the latest QB prospect to emerge from the tutelage of Cal head coach Jeff Tedford. The good news for Rodgers is that all those previous Tedford prospects - David Carr, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, Akili Smith, and Trent Dilfer - were taken early in the first round. The bad news is that they've had at best uneven careers. Nevertheless, San Francisco is the odds-on favorite to take local product Rodgers with the first overall pick. Rodgers began his senior season as a decent prospect but shot up draft boards after carving up USC to the tune of 23 straight completions - outplaying Heisman winner Matt Leinart in the process - in a road loss in October. He has good size and above-average arm strength, and displayed the accuracy (63.8% completions in two seasons at Cal) that pleases coaches running the West Coast offense.
2005 mock - ( New Window )
In addition as you mentioned, Webb has prototypical size and great athleticism. You point out how he was dominant at the combine and his pro day. He also broke all the records at Cal and was a year after Goff from Cal had just went number 1. Yet with all of that he fell to the 3rd. That's not to say he can't be good, but there is something that can't be seen in highlights and stats that all the scouts and GMs saw in the real coach's tape.
He supposedly has a great work ethic as well and yet still couldn't get off the practice squad. Even after Spags took over it wasn't until the last game that Webb even became the back up.
Once again, could he turn out to be good? Of course. However the evidence points to a lot of wishful thinking.
If we draft a QB at 2 (darnold or rosen) and webb turns out to be good, that is not a bad thing. The redskins took RG3 at number 2 overall and still drafted Cousins. That actually ended up helping them. The pats have had multiple quality backups over the years for Brady and have used them to gain extra picks. Webb being good regardless if we draft a QB high is still a positive.
However, if Webb turns out not to be good which based on current evidence and historical statistics then the Giants will need to pony up ridiculous salary cap space (see minnesota this year) or trade up with multiple picks to try to get a QB...and then have no Eli for that QB to learn under, having to throw them to the fire...which we know takes a few years.
the year Webb was drafted the draft was strength geared to other positions
Webb was 5th QB drafted
You don't pass up the opportunity to get a great QB. The Browns have done it over and over and have had the opportunity to draft some pretty good QBs and passed. QB is a big need for this team. Anyone that thinks Eli has a few years left is kidding themselves. This should be his last year as a Giant. We have made the playoffs once in the last 6 years and even that year our O sucked. A new coach isn't going to make Eli better at this point in his career. He can't carry a team and we don't have the talent for him.
I have to think that there is a QB with the choice at 2. Too many teams are lining up for them not to be a god class. This draft could define DGs career with the Giants. If he takes a QB he better be right and if he doesn't and one of them turns out to be a Hover. It will be a tough pill because we will still need a QB.
Main issue was his decision making and locking onto targets. He tended to throw late as opposed to anticipating. Again, Im no scout, this was what I read.
If I'm honest about the whole QB/Webb issue, I think they both have a % chance to succeed. The #2 pick may have a 40% chance of being very good. Webb may have a 10% chance, who knows.
To me the QB position is important enough to take the #2 pick and put him H2H with Webb and increase the Giants chances of one of them being the guy.
Here's a question for you... What value would the other 31 GMs be willing to give the Giants in a trade for Webb right now? If he's the real deal, certainly the 31 GMs of the other teams (you know, the guys who actually get paid for their player evaluations) would have a pretty good idea of his value, don't you think? So, what would they pay right now? Would they take him and give the Giants a top 10 pick in this year's draft?
I'd suggest it's more likely they'd give the Giants a top 10 pick in the 8th round of this year's draft.
That's the stat I see as significant.
That said, you can just write him off either.
The only reasons I ever hear for writing him off are:
1) He was a 3rd round pick.
So what that was before we had in the building and he has done as well as can be expected. He cam from an Air Raid system, which is basically a 1 read system. There are lots of questions about QBs coming out of that system into the NFL - More read, very different footwork, taking snaps under center, different mechanics. Now Jared Goff has shown it can be down. And Webb has already proven the he can make the physical adjustments.
2) He could not beat out Geno Smith.
He was never expected to, nor even given a chance to beat out Geno. He was a project. He had a lot things to work on and learn. But McAdoo himself said that he was going to put Webb into just that he wanted to evaluate Geno first. And since when do people on this site put any credence into McAdoos evaluations. Everybody says he was trash, but use the fact that he wanted to try out Geno first as proof that Webb sucks... Makes no sense whatsoever.
Again, let me say. I am not a Webb groupie, and if our brain trust have a strong conviction about one of the these QBs and he is available, certainly grab him...
In my mind everything Webb has done since being here has improved his stock, and you simply can't write him off.
That said, you [b][i]cannot[\i][\b] just write him off either.
The only reasons I ever hear for writing him off are:
1) He was a 3rd round pick.
So what that was before we had in the building and he has done as well as can be expected. He cam from an Air Raid system, which is basically a 1 read system. There are lots of questions about QBs coming out of that system into the NFL - More read, very different footwork, taking snaps under center, different mechanics. Now Jared Goff has shown it can be down. And Webb has already proven the he can make the physical adjustments.
2) He could not beat out Geno Smith.
He was never expected to, nor even given a chance to beat out Geno. He was a project. He had a lot things to work on and learn. But McAdoo himself said that he was going to put Webb into just that he wanted to evaluate Geno first. And since when do people on this site put any credence into McAdoos evaluations. Everybody says he was trash, but use the fact that he wanted to try out Geno first as proof that Webb sucks... Makes no sense whatsoever.
Again, let me say. I am not a Webb groupie, and if our brain trust have a strong conviction about one of the these QBs and he is available, certainly grab him...
In my mind everything Webb has done since being here has improved his stock, and you simply can't write him off.
That said, you can just write him off either.
The only reasons I ever hear for writing him off are:
1) He was a 3rd round pick.
So what that was before we had in the building and he has done as well as can be expected. He cam from an Air Raid system, which is basically a 1 read system. There are lots of questions about QBs coming out of that system into the NFL - More read, very different footwork, taking snaps under center, different mechanics. Now Jared Goff has shown it can be down. And Webb has already proven the he can make the physical adjustments.
2) He could not beat out Geno Smith.
He was never expected to, nor even given a chance to beat out Geno. He was a project. He had a lot things to work on and learn. But McAdoo himself said that he was going to put Webb into just that he wanted to evaluate Geno first. And since when do people on this site put any credence into McAdoos evaluations. Everybody says he was trash, but use the fact that he wanted to try out Geno first as proof that Webb sucks... Makes no sense whatsoever.
Again, let me say. I am not a Webb groupie, and if our brain trust have a strong conviction about one of the these QBs and he is available, certainly grab him...
In my mind everything Webb has done since being here has improved his stock, and you simply can't write him off.
I don’t think anybody is writing him off. It’s more a matter of being a totally asinine belief to say with any level of certainty that they should consider him the franchise quarterback of the future. I don’t see how Webb has improved his stock. The only argument to that end is that he works hard and says the right things which we knew about him when he was drafted based on everything his coaches and teammates said about him. Remember last offseason we heard a lot about how hard Flowers was working all offseason too.
Whyb use stats from only one season? You'll get a more complete picture if you use all available college data on the guys you are comparing.
Their is also no way the current coaching staff 'knows what they have' in Davis Webb. They haven't had him on the field for one second yet.
I don’t think anybody is writing him off. It’s more a matter of being a totally asinine belief to say with any level of certainty that they should consider him the franchise quarterback of the future. I don’t see how Webb has improved his stock. [/quote]
"totally asinine belief"
"don't see how Webb has improved"
Those are pretty strong words!!!
Let me say this again, I don't believe, nor disbelieve that he is our future franchise QB.
I certainly don't think its asinine to consider the possibility. In fact think he has about as good a chance as any of the draft picks coming out.
The fact that you don't see how he has improved says much more about you than about Webb.
He has learned to take snaps from under center
He has learned West Coast footwork and mechanics
He put this on display in the limited time he had against the Patriots, where he was quite impressive, albeit against scrubs. It says nothing about his processing speed and ability to progress through reads against real NFL talent.
The sad truth is, we have the exact same question about every prospect coming out, we have no idea weather they can handle the speed and reads of the NFL. This is why I say he has about an equal chance. The one thing that may work against Webb is the 25 Wonderlic is not good for a QB (but Big Ben also scored a 25 so its not a death knell either)
He has everything you need to be a good NFL QB now the questions are will they draft a QB, will he remain on the team if they do, have they decided what his future ability are? The fact he was never on the field last year was and still is a tremendous failure by management at all levels. Once the Eli move was made it was terrible to reverse course back to Eli without letting Webb get on the field.
Based on his first few games, you would have assumed that Eli would be a total bust.
Which is probably the single most critical element of playing QB at this level, and is often the difference between career backup and starter.
So many are saying that this class of QBs are all rare talents and all awesome.
I'm sorry I don't see it. This class has some talent, but man, they also have some major ugly warts. There will likely be a diamond amongst them, but damned if I know which one...
None seem worth a top 5 pick to me, let alone going 1-2-3 which is looking like a distinct possibility.
But the guys who are paid to make these decisions know better than I do, and they still miss an awful lot. So maybe we do see 3 or 4 studs, or a bunch of duds. Just seems very risky to me.