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@TomRock_Newsday John Mara at NFL Meetings: "I'm tired of answering questions about Odell's behavior. He knows what is expected of him and now it's up to him." @TomRock_Newsday "I'm not going to talk about his contract. Contracts get done when they're supposed to get done. We'll just have to see what happens." Is that a departure from where Mara was a few months ago wanting to make Odell a Giant for life? "Not necessarily." |
+1
POS? Wow.
Weird time to have morals.
Weird time to have morals.
Yes because all those making comments and passing judgement have perfect lives.
Odell has not done anything violent or abused anybody. Is he perfect? No. Does he do goofy stuff? Yes. Should he be perfect like Eli? As long as he doesn't sell non game worn jerseys as game worn....
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half as well as Odell does his.
John Mara has two Super Bowl rings as owner, Odell has none as a player.
Agreed, Milton. Pretty short sighted post there.
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half as well as Odell does his.
John Mara has two Super Bowl rings as owner, Odell has none as a player.
Besides being born in to money and signing the checks what has John Mara done to contribute to those Super Bowl wins?
There's one thing staggering in this thread and it's not what you think...
Calling other people morons but doesn't understand basic sentence structure.
It was Mara who wanted to see Webb play but when he saw the fans reaction he panicked and fired Reese and McAdoo in season. Foolish....Should have owned up to it and fired them at the end of the year
As for Maras comments, glad hes making an assertive statement. Dont think it means much but glad hes finally growing a pair.
Expect a trade soon. Zero chance.
As for Maras comments, glad hes making an assertive statement. Dont think it means much but glad hes finally growing a pair.
Expect a trade soon. Zero chance.
They knew about what happened and signed him anyway, and he's come out stronger against a player who hasn't done anything nearly as bad.
Apply that logic to yourself or anyone you know. Youd all be out of jobs.
Apply that logic to yourself or anyone you know. Youd all be out of jobs.
That's the point. Mara comes out and says this about Odell because he knows it'll satisfy the media. When it came to Josh Brown he ran and hid. It's cowardice.
Why couldn't he just say no comment instead of publicy blasting his player?
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Jesus Christ. I support Beckham being here but the Josh Brown comparison and comments are absurd.
Apply that logic to yourself or anyone you know. Youd all be out of jobs.
That's the point. Mara comes out and says this about Odell because he knows it'll satisfy the media. When it came to Josh Brown he ran and hid. It's cowardice.
Why couldn't he just say no comment instead of publicy blasting his player?
maybe because there is a sentiment in the building that odell needs to tone it down a bit. especially if he wants 20 million a year or some shit.
I dont know why Mara didnt say no comment. And I dont know why he didnt comment much on Brown although I suspect part of it was due to legal reasons and partly because he was embarassed.
Either way it doesnt mean he shouldnt say whatever he wants about Beckham regardless of him committing a crime or not.
Else, play out the 1 yr deal, take it from there - control him for at least 2 years.
Look for the NYG to hedge there bet by signing Collins to a long term extension.
If you post it enough does it make it true?
Both sides of the Odell fence are nauseating.
Like everything else Odell related, people will hear what they want to hear.
Else, play out the 1 yr deal, take it from there - control him for at least 2 years.
Look for the NYG to hedge there bet by signing Collins to a long term extension.
I don't think hedging their bet means what you think it means.
As for the latest video, some claim its spliced, but one thing for sure is, his wrists were not tatooed. They are now. Its old.
Of course they are. If he sternly said no comment I think wed get the same exact reactions for the same exact posters.
Link - ( New Window )
Maybe the two Super Bowl titles played a part in that decision... but hey what do I know? I guess he was just a POS after all.
I'm starting to think the same.
As much as I love OBJ the Giants cant lock him up yet. He needs to prove he can stay out of the negative headlines for a good stretch first. I think he can, especially once everyone gets back to playing football. The problem with the idea of trading OBJ is youll never get anywhere near his value back, especially now. Plus hes the cheapest all pro player you can for find on offense. Trading him now for what would be back page stories for anyone else is foolish and knee jerk and Mara is neither of those things.
OBJ will get his contract as long as he doesnt bite the hand.
Meanwhile Beckham goes on and has a hall of fame career...
Meanwhile Beckham goes on and has a hall of fame career...
Exactly. Nothing OBJ has done makes the prospect of that scenario any more acceptable. If he was a locker room cancer I could see it, but hes not. What Odell needs to focus on right now is being a member of the NYG and producing at an elite level. Then hell get his contract.
So you believe he did come even though he has had zero issues with drugs? Makes sense
I think his change of tone is related more to the fact that he's tired of answering the same bullshit questions every time the media talks to him.
Absolutely. Its probably one of the biggest factors in the fact he doesnt have an extension yet. If he would have turned in a typical year last season wed probably hear about ongoing and close to resolved negotiations.
If OBJ has 90 receptions 1,200 yds and 8+ TDs does anyone think Mr. Mara doesnt open his wallet.
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Perhaps Mr. Mara would like to see change as opposed to ask for it?
I think his change of tone is related more to the fact that he's tired of answering the same bullshit questions every time the media talks to him.
I agree. Hes got a team to rebuild
I strongly dislike you as a person.
Let's be honest, you wouldn't have needed any video to believe what you believe. Once you get it in your head to dislike a player, there's no coming back from that.
Exactly. And how many questions have the Jets been subjected to about their WR. Not nearly as many as Mara gets on OBJ. Cant blame him if he doesnt want to talk about it anymore.
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The coke video was shot on March 8. So it wasn't an old video like many claimed. And while I suppose it's possible he didn't do blow off her tits when she offered, I know what I believe.
Let's be honest, you wouldn't have needed any video to believe what you believe. Once you get it in your head to dislike a player, there's no coming back from that.
No, it's just logic.
I have been on this site for over 20 years, long before you arrived!
I lost my handle, which was #102 (McL - no periods) FYI, and stopped posting for long time and just lurked.
I recently got a new handle...
If you have read any of my posts you will see that I am nothing like the Trolls you accuse me of being. I started posting again because of some of the extreme idiocy going on. The exact opposite of the person who was signing off because of it.
Perhaps you should get your fact straight before making accusations.
But his drama is just noise. Its completely beside the point. Hes the best player the team has had in a long, long time. Id hate to lose him.
I think you are right. As of now, both parties want the other. As far as money is concerned. OBJ isnt getting a 20 million dollar a year offer. But, with the very disappointing Sammy Watkins getting 16 mil per year, I think OBJ should get around 18. At least thats a what the market suggests.
But his drama is just noise. Its completely beside the point. Hes the best player the team has had in a long, long time. Id hate to lose him.
When you consider that the Giants have given contracts to players who blew their hand off, abused their wives, had to be picked up in jail, and were convicted of sexual assault in college, I cant imagine that OBJs antics sweat them enough to overrule his phenomenal play on the field. Im sure the Giants will find a way to structure a contract the rewards OBJ but also protects the organization.
That said, every time one of these videos surfaces hes only hurting himself. Hard to demand to be the highest paid WR in the game when your behavior is creating the perception of being a risky contract. Giants would be better off franchising him.
Great question.
Also, how would Mara or Gettleman be helping Schurmur win games or the team improve if they traded the best offensive weapon in team history? As someone mentioned earlier, the headaches OBJ may bring are minor compared to the migraines Robby Anderson is giving the Jets. Right now, the question isnt whether the Giants should sign OBJ, its when and for how much.
An Eli Manning led team without Beckham in 2019 might not score 150 points.
Not what Mara said. He said he was tired of answer questions about OBJ.
Im sure the Giants will find a way to structure a contract the rewards OBJ but also protects the organization.
I hope so. I hadnt realized how many BBI fans want him goneand seem to think he will be.
Its been in the back of my mind for awhile now but the kid has turned into a nightmare. He has obvious mental health issues and seemingly just wants to enjoy the party life. Which is fine with me if he wasnt the NYGs and NFLs star wide receiver.
The fame went to his head. I dont see him recovering from it. That combined with his injury last year, his tiny size, future contractor, future locker room cancer probability? I said trade him and come away with another top 5-10 pick this year, another round 1 next year and whatever else we can get.
Its been in the back of my mind for awhile now but the kid has turned into a nightmare. He has obvious mental health issues and seemingly just wants to enjoy the party life. Which is fine with me if he wasnt the NYGs and NFLs star wide receiver.
The fame went to his head. I dont see him recovering from it. That combined with his injury last year, his tiny size, future contractor, future locker room cancer probability? I said trade him and come away with another top 5-10 pick this year, another round 1 next year and whatever else we can get.
He has obvious mental health issues?
Cmon. Let's not act like armchair psychologists here.
Odell is immature. That's it. Needs to grow up and be smarter. But mental health stuff isn't a thing you just label a person with from your couch. Don't do that.
Its been in the back of my mind for awhile now but the kid has turned into a nightmare. He has obvious mental health issues and seemingly just wants to enjoy the party life. Which is fine with me if he wasnt the NYGs and NFLs star wide receiver.
The fame went to his head. I dont see him recovering from it. That combined with his injury last year, his tiny size, future contractor, future locker room cancer probability? I said trade him and come away with another top 5-10 pick this year, another round 1 next year and whatever else we can get.
Seriously? You got all that out of a video thats been out for 3 weeks?
You wont get a haul for OBJ. Coming off injury, due to get a big payday. Not an attractive trade piece right now.
Mara also said today the team is not shopping Odell, but would listen to offers as they would for all other players on the roster.
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Im sure the Giants will find a way to structure a contract the rewards OBJ but also protects the organization.
I hope so. I hadnt realized how many BBI fans want him goneand seem to think he will be.
Which tells me he probably wont be. Mara is far more measured than BBI. Hes on record as not even holding this 15 million dollar lawsuit against OBJ. Im sure Mara is annoyed, but more with the drama and circus that OBJ brings on himself. Not so much OBJ, more of what comes with it.
If we do that, its time to dust off the ol' SB clock and hang it back up in the locker room!
If we do that, its time to dust off the ol' SB clock and hang it back up in the locker room!
LOL... you obviously don't remember much of Strahan's career. He made plenty of his own waves.
Dave Diehl also plowed into like 5 cars because he was driving hammered.
It's amazing how these guys are canonized while Odell is treated like America's Most Wanted.
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In comment 13885450 Go Terps said:
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The coke video was shot on March 8. So it wasn't an old video like many claimed. And while I suppose it's possible he didn't do blow off her tits when she offered, I know what I believe.
Let's be honest, you wouldn't have needed any video to believe what you believe. Once you get it in your head to dislike a player, there's no coming back from that.
No, it's just logic.
That's a gross way to justify your prejudices.
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In comment 13885450 Go Terps said:
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The coke video was shot on March 8. So it wasn't an old video like many claimed. And while I suppose it's possible he didn't do blow off her tits when she offered, I know what I believe.
Let's be honest, you wouldn't have needed any video to believe what you believe. Once you get it in your head to dislike a player, there's no coming back from that.
No, it's just logic.
It's logic that a guy did coke just because it was in the room?
If we do that, its time to dust off the ol' SB clock and hang it back up in the locker room!
Strahan? The guy who sat out multiple training camps so he could get paid?
That's not prejudice. The guy is a dick.
Sigh
I may as well give up publicly proclaiming my dismay when I find myself in agreement with Go Terps....
That's not prejudice. The guy is a dick.
Don't pull that shoulder patting yourself on the back..
With that said, it's not like he's done anything like criminal, drugs, nor etc. but his antics, knowing full well now he's under the microscope, isnt getting better. thus, thinking mara and etc have pretty much behind closed doors laid a line to not be crossed now.
Hate to see such talent get away, but if they feel it's getting too much antics wise, don't blame them for not re upping the contract.
Bob Glauber
Verified account @BobGlauber
1h1 hour ago
Giants co-owner John Mara on whether there could be more trades after JPP deal: When youre 3-13, no one is untouchable. Says team has not shopped Odell Beckham Jr. but would listen to offers - as he would with any player.
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Our locker room culture is a train wreck. Trade Shocke... I mean OBJ and stock it with leaders and high character guys like Strahan, Jacobs, Snee, OHara, Diehl and so forth.
If we do that, its time to dust off the ol' SB clock and hang it back up in the locker room!
LOL... you obviously don't remember much of Strahan's career. He made plenty of his own waves.
Dave Diehl also plowed into like 5 cars because he was driving hammered.
It's amazing how these guys are canonized while Odell is treated like America's Most Wanted.
Uh okWhat were Strahan issues? Not wanting to be fined for showing up to a meeting 5 minutes early?
David Diehl was a class act other than one incident (POS yes)
Enough about one guy being the center of attention whether its Eli and his feelings or OBJ and his antics.
I want a team, not a bunch of drama over one a has-been whos barely backup quality now or the other, a never-will-be, when the chips are on the table when it matters most.
Hopefully both of these guys are gone after this year if not sooner.
B. Odell gets traded or leaves via free agency.
I really wish he would just SFTU already and be an ambassador to the game and his team similar to Larry Fitz and Jerry Rice and not like Terrel Owens.
I think every Giants' fan would just love to have Odell on this team until he can no longer physically play the game. However, about half of us also know that all of his other shit just has no place on a championship team.
By the way, we still need to see if this injury has taken any of his quickness away.
He JM2.0
But other than that, you are correct.
B. Odell gets traded or leaves via free agency.
I really wish he would just SFTU already and be an ambassador to the game and his team similar to Larry Fitz and Jerry Rice and not like Terrel Owens.
I think every Giants' fan would just love to have Odell on this team until he can no longer physically play the game. However, about half of us also know that all of his other shit just has no place on a championship team.
By the way, we still need to see if this injury has taken any of his quickness away.
A broken ankle isn't going to sap him of any quickness.
It wasn't a muscular tear. This shouldn't have any impact on him athletically.
Look, I'm tired of reading about this shit too. But part of it is also that the media and a lot of other people desperately want to knock him down and see him fail and have a big target on him.
I don't know when the video is from - I don't know if it's from 3 weeks ago or 3 years ago. But if it is old, what has he even done that is problematic otherwise?
Josh Norman will be nearly 3 years old at the start of this coming season. Nothing like that has happened since. He's been flagged like 2-3 times total since then that I can remember.
I read these threads sometimes and they look like we're discussing Robby Anderson or Greg Hardy.
A lot of people definitely bend over backwards to defend him at times (me included), but it seems like it's just a neverending witch hunt.
He's going to wind up run of town because this will eventually just come to a head.
Even when he doesn't do anything, headlines come out about him getting into fights at nightclubs that he isn't even at. Its wild
Walking away from the draft with Barkley and either Chubb/Fitzpatrick would be something else.
Call us. Lets make a deal.
Regards,
John
Walking away from the draft with Barkley and either Chubb/Fitzpatrick would be something else.
It would, but we'd also be walking away from it with zero starting caliber outside WR's.
Sterling Shepard as our #1?
If we're committing to Eli for another 1-2 years, you can't saddle him with that. It's destined to fail.
Bob Glauber
Verified account @BobGlauber
1h1 hour ago
Giants co-owner John Mara on whether there could be more trades after JPP deal: When youre 3-13, no one is untouchable. Says team has not shopped Odell Beckham Jr. but would listen to offers - as he would with any player.
Eric, I responded to you directly back in January that people should not be surprised if OBJ is traded. This was after Mara made the public radio rounds. Many around here talk in absolutes that OBJ won't be traded. The reality is that Mara is likely growing weary of having to have private meetings with Odell on how to act. Yet, time and again, OBJ keeps having to have these meetings.
Thats really the heart of it for me. I wish Beckham was the model type of player we all hope and dream for, but Ill settle for not being a criminal. The NFL and the Giants are a hobby, whether people want to admit it or not. We make opinions with fractional pieces of information, and think we are correct.
Its funny to read some of these reactions, its also sad at the same time.
That said, every time one of these videos surfaces hes only hurting himself. Hard to demand to be the highest paid WR in the game when your behavior is creating the perception of being a risky contract. Giants would be better off franchising him.
Except he was suspended. I'm surprised that some fans forgot about him coming unhinged and ear-holing Norman. He was subsequently suspended for his actions.
Look, I'm tired of reading about this shit too. But part of it is also that the media and a lot of other people desperately want to knock him down and see him fail and have a big target on him.
Yeah I agree that people will look for any small thing and will make a huge deal out of it. That being said, the guy simply is not helping himself here. Lets take that recent video for example. Most people are arguing whether he was doing coke in the video. Not me... I am comfortable enough knowing that he probably didn't. HOWEVER, why the hell is he putting himself in that environment? Why is he with someone who would actually take a phone out to record it to? Some horrible decision making there. When you are an athlete of that level you are a target and it is on him to limit the chances that shit will end up going viral.... whether it is this video or a photo on a boat, or whatever.
Thats the fair way to look at things. Or people can do what they do best and claim all sorts of shit because they have an axe to grind.
But I agreed with him during the Shockey kerfuffle and I'm beginning to agree with him now.
Thats the fair way to look at things. Or people can do what they do best and claim all sorts of shit because they have an axe to grind.
yeah he let his guard down. He needs to be A LOT smarter not only with what he does but what he says too. We can banter back and forth on it forever but in the end this is his life and his future and only he can control what happens. It is still early in his career to just grow up and be a pro.
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In comment 13885585 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
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Our locker room culture is a train wreck. Trade Shocke... I mean OBJ and stock it with leaders and high character guys like Strahan, Jacobs, Snee, OHara, Diehl and so forth.
If we do that, its time to dust off the ol' SB clock and hang it back up in the locker room!
LOL... you obviously don't remember much of Strahan's career. He made plenty of his own waves.
Dave Diehl also plowed into like 5 cars because he was driving hammered.
It's amazing how these guys are canonized while Odell is treated like America's Most Wanted.
Uh okWhat were Strahan issues? Not wanting to be fined for showing up to a meeting 5 minutes early?
David Diehl was a class act other than one incident (POS yes)
Well there was the whole press conference where he called out the HC while that coach was burying his mother.
Its too often he allows himself to be put in bad situations and uses bad judgment, Mara said, adding that the video wasnt helpful. He knows what we expect of him and now its up to him. We certainly are not shopping him. Coming off 3-13 when we played as poorly as we did, I cant say anyone is untouchable....
Contracts get done when theyre supposed to get done. Well just have to see what happens, Mara said. He added that Beckham playing out the contract is a possibility.
Link - ( New Window )
Call us. Lets make a deal.
Regards,
John
Really not how I read that at all.
Yeah, I'm getting stuck on it too.
It depends on that video. I've seen that it's from 2015 - I've seen that it's from recently. But I'm not sure how it was recent if he doesn't have the same tattoos.
If it is, shame on him... even if he didn't do any drugs. He should know better.
If it's not, I'm not really sure what the problem is unless we're still focused on really old shit like Norman, the kicking net, or the boat trip. All of which should be let go of by now.
He JM2.0
Little overly dramatic dont you think.
I'm starting to think it's inevitable. The wolves have been out and want him out of here and soon enough, they'll get what they want.
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Speaking at the NFL meetings, Mara said he is not angry with Beckham, who recently was seen in a video in bed with a woman and what appeared to be white powder, though the timing of the video and its content is uncertain.
Its too often he allows himself to be put in bad situations and uses bad judgment, Mara said, adding that the video wasnt helpful. He knows what we expect of him and now its up to him. We certainly are not shopping him. Coming off 3-13 when we played as poorly as we did, I cant say anyone is untouchable....
Contracts get done when theyre supposed to get done. Well just have to see what happens, Mara said. He added that Beckham playing out the contract is a possibility.
Link - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting the article. I go back to my first post. This is Mara sending a message. You wanna get paid, smarten up.
I'm starting to think it's inevitable. The wolves have been out and want him out of here and soon enough, they'll get what they want.
Only solution is winning.
I'm starting to think it's inevitable. The wolves have been out and want him out of here and soon enough, they'll get what they want.
I guarantee you that if he produces on the field and keeps the rest of it clean, then that won't happen.
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What's clear is that this guy is going to get run out of town one way or another.
I'm starting to think it's inevitable. The wolves have been out and want him out of here and soon enough, they'll get what they want.
I guarantee you that if he produces on the field and keeps the rest of it clean, then that won't happen.
Exactly
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What's clear is that this guy is going to get run out of town one way or another.
I'm starting to think it's inevitable. The wolves have been out and want him out of here and soon enough, they'll get what they want.
Only solution is winning.
Yeah, more or less.
I want to see him succeed here. Media and fans are more powerful than we think sometimes, though.
Seems like a lot of people want him run out of town and every time I keep reading stuff like this, I start to think it's more and more likely that he'll be sent elsewhere.
There are WR's on other teams who have done far worse and don't seem to be in any danger of being moved - I guess that's what I get hung up on. The target on Beckham seems HUGE when you consider his actual track record. I don't really understand it.
On the other hand, the biggest mistake could be signing him long term.
Its quite the challenge...
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Biggest mistake in franchise history would be getting rid of this guy when Eli finally passes the torch
On the other hand, the biggest mistake could be signing him long term.
Its quite the challenge...
I will agree its a challenge. But what does everyone think is going to happen? I doubt Odell stops producing and aside from the Norman incident he hasnt done anything to remotely warrant suspension. Unless he fails a drug test and we dont even really know if we should be concerned about that yet. You can say he brings embarrassment on the organization but he brings a lot of positives too.
Barring any off the field issues that involved law enforcement or league suspension, Id pay him.
Pointing to other players around the league and what they've done has no bearing on whether or not Beckham is and has been an asshole. He is, and he has been.
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In comment 13885710 arcarsenal said:
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What's clear is that this guy is going to get run out of town one way or another.
I'm starting to think it's inevitable. The wolves have been out and want him out of here and soon enough, they'll get what they want.
Only solution is winning.
Yeah, more or less.
I want to see him succeed here. Media and fans are more powerful than we think sometimes, though.
Seems like a lot of people want him run out of town and every time I keep reading stuff like this, I start to think it's more and more likely that he'll be sent elsewhere.
There are WR's on other teams who have done far worse and don't seem to be in any danger of being moved - I guess that's what I get hung up on. The target on Beckham seems HUGE when you consider his actual track record. I don't really understand it.
I do not understand it either. Part of me thinks the Norman incident was so shocking that hell never win over part of the fanbase. Also he has not kissed the ring of most in the NY sports media and I think many know that an OBJ headline sells, whether good or bad. I still say winning fixes it. Remember all the grief Eli took from fans and the media until he won a Super Bowl.
Id never suggest he is blameless. But I strongly believe about 25% of the Giants fanbase has no clue how foolish it is to run a player of such greatness out of town because he is immature, especially when he has produced HoF numbers on an offense that is otherwise anemic.
Pointing to other players around the league and what they've done has no bearing on whether or not Beckham is and has been an asshole. He is, and he has been.
You're missing the point. Those players around the league are either highly paid or are going to be soon. Yet there's no rush to trade those guys.
Hell, if Josh Gordon stays clean produces back to back years Cleveland will probably pay him.
No one is suggesting throwing him in jail. What is at issue is whether his employer should continue to tolerate this idiot at a significant pay increase, or trade him for picks at a time when the rebuilding franchise could use all the picks and salary cap space it can muster.
Pointing to other players around the league and what they've done has no bearing on whether or not Beckham is and has been an asshole. He is, and he has been.
So who justly deserves more scrutiny? Robby Anderson, Gronk, or OBJ? The media is fascinated by him and he sells.
An Eli Manning led team without Beckham in 2019 might not score 150 points.
Pat Riley is the champ of building up value on someone who he says he has no intention of trading.
The Shurmer Beckham meeting could mean lots of things:
Get familiar
Talk about Paris
or
Try to relate and motivate
any above plus and or not add a window dressing that the NYGs are OK keeping him and are not intending to go to the draft without him.
Why show your cards?
Why create a weak hand?
Mara says one thing
Shumur says another
DG wants to invest lots of money for lineman
It says we will take your call but we never said we want to specifically deal him.
My hope is that we can trade him and get pick #4 pick or #5 pick another player and a #1 next year.
Cleveland just added WRs?
I prefer another generation player Barkley at #4 or Nelson... another player off Cleveland roster and the #1 next year...
I would not pay any receiver over 10% of my total cap.
You're missing the point. Those players around the league are either highly paid or are going to be soon. Yet there's no rush to trade those guys.
No, I think YOU are missing the point. The ONLY thing that kept Odell from being dumped already due to his stupid actions IS his play on the field. An average WR would have been gone by now.
Now my next statement here is not directed at you but to anyone responding to the original post with John Mara's comments. Did anyone expect Mara to send a message that Odell can do whatever he wants and it would be "okay"? He has a team that was like a drunken pirate ship last year with NO control or discipline at all. If he didn't say what he said about Odell then I would be extremely disappointed.
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If the Giants do not intend to retain Beckham, I will be very disappointed if they do not select a QB this year.
An Eli Manning led team without Beckham in 2019 might not score 150 points.
Pat Riley is the champ of building up value on someone who he says he has no intention of trading.
The Shurmer Beckham meeting could mean lots of things:
Get familiar
Talk about Paris
or
Try to relate and motivate
any above plus and or not add a window dressing that the NYGs are OK keeping him and are not intending to go to the draft without him.
Why show your cards?
Why create a weak hand?
Mara says one thing
Shumur says another
DG wants to invest lots of money for lineman
It says we will take your call but we never said we want to specifically deal him.
My hope is that we can trade him and get pick #4 pick or #5 pick another player and a #1 next year.
Cleveland just added WRs?
I prefer another generation player Barkley at #4 or Nelson... another player off Cleveland roster and the #1 next year...
I would not pay any receiver over 10% of my total cap.
Well Id certainly pay a WR 18 mil per in a passing league. Watkins just got 16 per. This league doesnt revolve around running backs anymore.
I think Shurmur went to OBJ to let him know he wanted Odell to be part of the future and to set the groundwork for what will be an important relationship. Eli is gone within the next 3 years or less. OBJ is the only player on the roster capable of being a franchise player.
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You're missing the point. Those players around the league are either highly paid or are going to be soon. Yet there's no rush to trade those guys.
No, I think YOU are missing the point. The ONLY thing that kept Odell from being dumped already due to his stupid actions IS his play on the field. An average WR would have been gone by now.
Now my next statement here is not directed at you but to anyone responding to the original post with John Mara's comments. Did anyone expect Mara to send a message that Odell can do whatever he wants and it would be "okay"? He has a team that was like a drunken pirate ship last year with NO control or discipline at all. If he didn't say what he said about Odell then I would be extremely disappointed.
Robby Anderson is still a Jet.
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In comment 13885731 BigBlue4You09 said:
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Biggest mistake in franchise history would be getting rid of this guy when Eli finally passes the torch
On the other hand, the biggest mistake could be signing him long term.
Its quite the challenge...
I will agree its a challenge. But what does everyone think is going to happen? I doubt Odell stops producing and aside from the Norman incident he hasnt done anything to remotely warrant suspension. Unless he fails a drug test and we dont even really know if we should be concerned about that yet. You can say he brings embarrassment on the organization but he brings a lot of positives too.
Barring any off the field issues that involved law enforcement or league suspension, Id pay him.
Illegal issues or just plain jerk issues, OBJ is a perpetual distraction.
He is TO - from a antics standpoint. They arent identical, but they have an uncanny ability to draw the wrong kind of attention. You love their talent and production but you get worn down managing the bullish-t. Whats the plan? Sign him and cross your fingers that he self-corrects?
So are we blaming him for the French model secretly video taping him?
Dont get me wrong. Id love to fill the team full of Boy Scouts and hold professional football players to high moral standards, but sadly I do not think that is realistic. Anyone ever read its good to be Gronk?
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In comment 13885749 bw in dc said:
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In comment 13885731 BigBlue4You09 said:
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Biggest mistake in franchise history would be getting rid of this guy when Eli finally passes the torch
On the other hand, the biggest mistake could be signing him long term.
Its quite the challenge...
I will agree its a challenge. But what does everyone think is going to happen? I doubt Odell stops producing and aside from the Norman incident he hasnt done anything to remotely warrant suspension. Unless he fails a drug test and we dont even really know if we should be concerned about that yet. You can say he brings embarrassment on the organization but he brings a lot of positives too.
Barring any off the field issues that involved law enforcement or league suspension, Id pay him.
Illegal issues or just plain jerk issues, OBJ is a perpetual distraction.
He is TO - from a antics standpoint. They arent identical, but they have an uncanny ability to draw the wrong kind of attention. You love their talent and production but you get worn down managing the bullish-t. Whats the plan? Sign him and cross your fingers that he self-corrects?
TO was unstable and a literal locker room cancer who criticized his teammates publicly. OBJ is none of those things.
Robby Anderson is still a Jet.
For the Jets, Robbie Anderson is not an average player. He was their best offensive weapon last season.
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Robby Anderson is still a Jet.
For the Jets, Robbie Anderson is not an average player. He was their best offensive weapon last season.
And hes still on their roster
I honestly dont know where people come up with this stuff.
Pointing to other players around the league and what they've done has no bearing on whether or not Beckham is and has been an asshole. He is, and he has been.
I don't know, it's just as interesting to me that he's portrayed this way given what his actual transgressions are/were. I don't feel like other players who have done worse get the same type of media targets on their backs.
You keep calling him things like a "dipshit" or an "asshole" - but all that proves is that you don't like him.
I'm not so naive that I can't figure out why not everyone is his biggest fan, I just don't really see behavior that warrants getting rid of him for a suboptimal return.
I would be way more inclined to want to get rid of him if he were a legal problem or if it was clear he wasn't liked by his teammates. But neither are true.
I still think he provides way more on the field than any of the purported drawbacks.
He should grow up - but I don't think anything that has happened is good enough reason to trade away arguably the most talented offensive player we've ever seen.
Why can't he be a part of the solution?
I honestly dont know where people come up with this stuff.
Maybe its because I think so highly of uconn in general. But man, I love and appreciate your takes.
I honestly dont know where people come up with this stuff.
The dumb shit dog peeing celebration was deemed serious enough to warrant a dressing down from the owner. Whatever any of us thought of it, Mara was unhappy.
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Four years of him being a dipshit is going to get attention, especially when everyone knows the Giants are at a crossroads with him from a contract perspective.
Pointing to other players around the league and what they've done has no bearing on whether or not Beckham is and has been an asshole. He is, and he has been.
I don't know, it's just as interesting to me that he's portrayed this way given what his actual transgressions are/were. I don't feel like other players who have done worse get the same type of media targets on their backs.
You keep calling him things like a "dipshit" or an "asshole" - but all that proves is that you don't like him.
I'm not so naive that I can't figure out why not everyone is his biggest fan, I just don't really see behavior that warrants getting rid of him for a suboptimal return.
I would be way more inclined to want to get rid of him if he were a legal problem or if it was clear he wasn't liked by his teammates. But neither are true.
I still think he provides way more on the field than any of the purported drawbacks.
He should grow up - but I don't think anything that has happened is good enough reason to trade away arguably the most talented offensive player we've ever seen.
Why can't he be a part of the solution?
My take exactly. Thank you for laying it out
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A. Because average players dont generate news like this and B. He hasnt had any major on field issues since the Carolina game almost 3 years ago.
I honestly dont know where people come up with this stuff.
The dumb shit dog peeing celebration was deemed serious enough to warrant a dressing down from the owner. Whatever any of us thought of it, Mara was unhappy.
As well he should have been. But that is a reason to part ways?
So are we blaming him for the French model secretly video taping him?
I will defend Odell when needed but here yeah we need to blame him for being video taped. First, an unwise decision being in the room with a pile of coke. He should have insisted that the shit be put away or kick them out. He has everything to lose. Next, these virtual strangers should be forced to leave their phones at the door. A high profile guy like that needs to take every precautionary measure to make sure this shit does not happen. They need to make sure that some girl is not going to claim her new born baby is not his either. He has to have a very tight circle of friends at least until he retires. Then, bounce quarters off of her ass with mountains of coke in the room.
None of them are in the same stratosphere of talent, production and importance and all still continue to play and get paid (Finnegan may be retired, not sure on him actually).
Im fine with people wanting our star player to shape up or ship out, but making stuff up gets old.
Never have I seen so many fans of a team hate the best player on the team...
The kicking net thing really? It was a friggin joke, he was making fun of the media making so much of him snacking the net...
He gets mad on the field? Are you friggin kidding me?
The peeing on the field was a mistake...
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A. Because average players dont generate news like this and B. He hasnt had any major on field issues since the Carolina game almost 3 years ago.
I honestly dont know where people come up with this stuff.
The dumb shit dog peeing celebration was deemed serious enough to warrant a dressing down from the owner. Whatever any of us thought of it, Mara was unhappy.
So Mara was unhappy, what does that prove? Im sure you wanted him to knee jerk react and cut him but thankfully that didnt happen.
Just listen to the people that like him: it's one excuse and rationalization after another. There's a degree of delusion there that would not exist if he were playing for another team.
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So are we blaming him for the French model secretly video taping him?
I will defend Odell when needed but here yeah we need to blame him for being video taped. First, an unwise decision being in the room with a pile of coke. He should have insisted that the shit be put away or kick them out. He has everything to lose. Next, these virtual strangers should be forced to leave their phones at the door. A high profile guy like that needs to take every precautionary measure to make sure this shit does not happen. They need to make sure that some girl is not going to claim her new born baby is not his either. He has to have a very tight circle of friends at least until he retires. Then, bounce quarters off of her ass with mountains of coke in the room.
So I hear you and I dont disagree that it was dumb. In fact idiotic. He never should have been in that situation. But it was stupid, not criminal. Also when you got nfl players who have multiple kids all over the country (Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson come to mind ) Im not going to look at this as an offense that warrants cutting ties.
Im saying they are both continuous distractions - getting there in different ways.
I get the angle that his production is outstanding, so you give him a longer leash. But Im convinced there is a better formula to win without these self-involved, super-diva receivers....and thats all over the league.
Just listen to the people that like him: it's one excuse and rationalization after another. There's a degree of delusion there that would not exist if he were playing for another team.
What does he continue to do? Norman thing and dog thing, what else?
I wish you could admit that. Maybe you have and I missed it, apologies if thats the case.
Never have I seen so many fans of a team hate the best player on the team...
The kicking net thing really? It was a friggin joke, he was making fun of the media making so much of him snacking the net...
He gets mad on the field? Are you friggin kidding me?
The peeing on the field was a mistake...
Im a pretty conservative guy. Id never have an outlandish hair cut and I have no tattoos. But it is very clear to me that a portion of the fanbase just hates the very appearance and demeanor of OBJ. If OBJ was not a great football player and he was just walking down the street I believe some would dislike him on sight without ever having met him. I didnt use to feel this way but you read some comments, see how quickly people said he started that nightclub fight in Atlanta (and he wasnt even in the state) hand listen to call ins on WFAN, Im convinced plenty of people just dont like him. He could visit 100 kids with cancer and OBJ would just be another young punk to them.
Im saying they are both continuous distractions - getting there in different ways.
I get the angle that his production is outstanding, so you give him a longer leash. But Im convinced there is a better formula to win without these self-involved, super-diva receivers....and thats all over the league.
Gronk, Antonio Brown, Travis Kelce. All playoff teams
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It is the dancing and the hair, what else has he done besides the panther game that makes people hate him so much?
Never have I seen so many fans of a team hate the best player on the team...
The kicking net thing really? It was a friggin joke, he was making fun of the media making so much of him snacking the net...
He gets mad on the field? Are you friggin kidding me?
The peeing on the field was a mistake...
Im a pretty conservative guy. Id never have an outlandish hair cut and I have no tattoos. But it is very clear to me that a portion of the fanbase just hates the very appearance and demeanor of OBJ. If OBJ was not a great football player and he was just walking down the street I believe some would dislike him on sight without ever having met him. I didnt use to feel this way but you read some comments, see how quickly people said he started that nightclub fight in Atlanta (and he wasnt even in the state) hand listen to call ins on WFAN, Im convinced plenty of people just dont like him. He could visit 100 kids with cancer and OBJ would just be another young punk to them.
It is pretty obvious, ogletree mentions how Beckham is the first to call him no one talks about it...
A video of a bar fight with someone who looks like Beckham and the vitriol on that thread was unreal...
I have never heard a teammate or anyone fr that matter talk bad about him..
I have never seen a video or picture of him with alcohol in his hand, yet people assume he does drugs...
It is amazing to me
Its just strange. If Beckham actually does something truly messed up Ill be the first to want him gone. But until then I want him in blue busting 80 yard TDS.
Just listen to the people that like him: it's one excuse and rationalization after another. There's a degree of delusion there that would not exist if he were playing for another team.
I don't think you're totally off base - I see what you see even though you probably don't think I do.
I'm annoyed that he keeps popping up in headlines for the wrong reasons, but I also think there's definitely a bit of a witch hunt going on here.
Like I said before - if the video of him that we saw last week was recent, then even if he didn't do any drugs, he still fucked up and needs to know better than that. I said that as soon as I saw it. I'd be really disappointed if it was recent. It would tell me he's not learning.
I was under the impression that it was old. So, I don't know.
But if it's not recent, then I can't really think of anything he's done lately that warrants much criticism.
I do make some excuses for him... I won't deny that. I just see a dude who really does care about the game and wants to win and works hard. His teammates seem to like him quite a bit. Guys around the league seem to like him a lot too.
I just think the player is fantastic and that we need to be careful about being so eager to get rid of him.
I think a guy like Travis Kelce is really douchey too - but he's a huge part of KC's offense and might be the best TE in football when you factor in Gronk's inability to stay on the field.
The culture can change here without needing to ditch Beckham. The Giants should just be looking to structure a deal in a way that gives them some protection if they need it.
Its just strange. If Beckham actually does something truly messed up Ill be the first to want him gone. But until then I want him in blue busting 80 yard TDS.
Exactly. 100% with you.
Quite honestly. Some people need to get over themselves. I dont expect OBj or Gronk to act like kids at Sunday school. Id love it if we had a locker room full of Elis. But thats not the world, thats not reality. The coaches get this, amazing so many fans dont.
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Again, Im not comparing TOs antics directly to OBJs.
Im saying they are both continuous distractions - getting there in different ways.
I get the angle that his production is outstanding, so you give him a longer leash. But Im convinced there is a better formula to win without these self-involved, super-diva receivers....and thats all over the league.
Gronk, Antonio Brown, Travis Kelce. All playoff teams
Okay, just for the record and sake of the counter punch - Saints, Packers (they are a playoff team with ARod), Carolina, Minnesota, Rams, Eagles, Atlanta, Buffalo, etc.
Buffalo is a different one, but they wish they had a top tier receiving threat.
OBJ will always be flamboyant. The new regime may keep it from getting too outrageous, but there will always be some of the wacky behavior happening.
Buffalo is a different one, but they wish they had a top tier receiving threat.
Jeffrey is nowhere near the Brown/OBJ/Jones category of play.
Yes, Jones is top tier talent, but he's understated and a class act...
I agree 100%. Total BS because the other guys are professionals and are busy preparing themselves for the next game. They are not distracted at all by it.
Now, if anything the media creates the problem and possibly could turn it into a distraction by constantly asking team mates about another player's issues.
Next, if a player gets suspended and the team needs to alter a game plan now which means changes in the game plan and practice, then yeah that COULD be a problem.
However, then the ball is snapped if anyone think that a player is thinking about another player's issues....well, it is just ridiculous.
But he also said that trading OBJ is not the scenario that anyone wants to see.
If you ask me this is the Giants way of sending a message to OBJ. Shurmur meets him California in an effort to get to know him and see what makes him tick. What motivates him. The kinder approach.
Mara uses his public time at the owners meetings to deliver the stick to Shurmurs carrot. Shape up or you can forget that contract.
Very shrewd moves by the Giants. Extend the hand with a reminder not to bite it. I sense Gettelman at work. Hope it does the trick.
I wish you could admit that. Maybe you have and I missed it, apologies if thats the case.
I don't care about Beckham or anyone else enjoying their celebrity. I care that Beckham is a selfish, self centered jerk. It's that simple.
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your only mistake is thinking that some (not all of us) would apply this same line of thinking for other players, even non Giants. Gronk is a perfect exemple, almost to the T. Antonio Brown is another. Both players outplay the problems they create, they win more so no one cares. And the problems they do create arent illegal and arent hurting others. They are enjoying their celebrity, shame on them.
I wish you could admit that. Maybe you have and I missed it, apologies if thats the case.
I don't care about Beckham or anyone else enjoying their celebrity. I care that Beckham is a selfish, self centered jerk. It's that simple.
Even if thats true, why do you care?
I just keep coming back to why would you trade off the most productive piece of your franchise when you are trying to do a relatively quick rebuild. If OBJ was 30 I could see it, but hes 25
He is part (not all of) the reason this team has been a loser. I agree with people that say he is popular in the locker room. I believe it, and that's part of the problem.
He is part (not all of) the reason this team has been a loser. I agree with people that say he is popular in the locker room. I believe it, and that's part of the problem.
This is one of the funniest things Ive ever read.
He is part (not all of) the reason this team has been a loser. I agree with people that say he is popular in the locker room. I believe it, and that's part of the problem.
You may have to consider that his public or social media persona is not the same as his private persona.
These threads simply arent worth it.
These threads simply arent worth it.
Not to mention who did ogletree mention as the first person to call him and welcome him?
Oh and when did the locker room go to crap? Oh that's right when Beckham got hurt and was not around the team as much...
Funny how that works
Sterling shepherd had him as one of his groomsmen...
What a horrible locker room cancer
But you simply don't replace his type of production and to want him traded is IMO short sighted. He isn't getting in trouble with the law or beating women. The guy is simply far too immature and emotional and he just needs to grow up a little. But I certainly want him playing for the Giants each Sunday; he is one of the best talents in the entire league.
I will, just like every time you mention drafting noodle arm Jackson
Now that I completely understand
But you simply don't replace his type of production and to want him traded is IMO short sighted. He isn't getting in trouble with the law or beating women. The guy is simply far too immature and emotional and he just needs to grow up a little. But I certainly want him playing for the Giants each Sunday; he is one of the best talents in the entire league.
2nd best talent in big blue history
If i am Mara/Tisch do i spend a very large multi year guaranteed contract on a player who continually "seems" to make judgements that may hurt him or the team.
This is why the risk azsessment is different for tbis player. The amount and size of the contract.
Forget being a fan for a moment. Do you know many successful businesses who dont have a considered opinion about giving a multi year multi million dollar contracts to folks who provide many more incidents where emotional judgement could be questioned than typical for a league with 25 to 27 as the average age ?
Would you run a careless business or want to see progress before committing?
Its not a moral "what aboutism" discussion. Its not a questiom about being consistent with past decisions or players ("what about Brown or LT?"). Thats all irrelevant. Its a business decision that stands on its own.
Judgement is part of performance. Everywhere.
Ever been in a business where you ask for more money based on doing a few things really really well and they say...sure...love to
..perform in all dimensions better first. Like maybe all of them?
And your advice is to root for a team thats run by guys that pay a lot for some kinds of performance but dont make clear the whole package requires the whole package.
Want to know why tbis is reasonable?
OBJ. He can and does exhibit good judgement. Sometimes. So its not a matter of ability. Its not a priority to him all the time. But good judgement is a priority for the teammates and owners.
Do you want highlights or a team of a professionals?
Obviously, just imo
If i am Mara/Tisch do i spend a very large multi year guaranteed contract on a player who continually "seems" to make judgements that may hurt him or the team.
This is why the risk azsessment is different for tbis player. The amount and size of the contract.
Forget being a fan for a moment. Do you know many successful businesses who dont have a considered opinion about giving a multi year multi million dollar contracts to folks who provide many more incidents where emotional judgement could be questioned than typical for a league with 25 to 27 as the average age ?
Would you run a careless business or want to see progress before committing?
Its not a moral "what aboutism" discussion. Its not a questiom about being consistent with past decisions or players ("what about Brown or LT?"). Thats all irrelevant. Its a business decision that stands on its own.
Judgement is part of performance. Everywhere.
Ever been in a business where you ask for more money based on doing a few things really really well and they say...sure...love to
..perform in all dimensions better first. Like maybe all of them?
And your advice is to root for a team thats run by guys that pay a lot for some kinds of performance but dont make clear the whole package requires the whole package.
Want to know why tbis is reasonable?
OBJ. He can and does exhibit good judgement. Sometimes. So its not a matter of ability. Its not a priority to him all the time. But good judgement is a priority for the teammates and owners.
Do you want highlights or a team of a professionals?
Obviously, just imo
Bill you focused on what actually matters in all this. So this is why I think the situation plays out as follows:
Giants dont trade OBJ in 2018. They dont have to. They control him this year.
OBJ will be told the team expects him to play on his option contract and they will evaluate as the season progresses.
Depending on performance and behavior its possible the Giants and OBJ reach a deal. But more likely is the team will franchise OBJ in February 2019 and start working out a long term deal if 2018 went well for OBJ. If 2018 went poorly in terms of behavior I think you see Gettleman work a trade after franchising OBJ.
Everything about Mara and Gettelmans behavior suggests they are willing to be patient in 2018. Partly because they can and partly because its smart.
I get that.
And then I remember similar things being said when Tiki Barber retired. He was 60% of the offense! How could he possibly be replaced?
Well, the Giants learned to live without Barber and they could learn to live without OBJ if they so choose.
Love him, hate him, be indifferent to him, but his propensity to be in the eye of the storm shows a lack of maturity, judgement and awareness.
He s certainly not making a case that s making it easier for the Giants to offer the contract he s seeking, especially coming off an injury.
I get that.
And then I remember similar things being said when Tiki Barber retired. He was 60% of the offense! How could he possibly be replaced?
Well, the Giants learned to live without Barber and they could learn to live without OBJ if they so choose.
Man, we still had Toomer, Plax, Jacobs and 3 rookies in Bradshaw, Smith and Boss that were willing to step up.
that's how...
Love him, hate him, be indifferent to him, but his propensity to be in the eye of the storm shows a lack of maturity, judgement and awareness.
He s certainly not making a case that s making it easier for the Giants to offer the contract he s seeking, especially coming off an injury.
He actually doesnt do that at all. The media puts him there, just like they do with lots of superstars. I guess Durant, Lebron, etc. are shitty teammates too, cant believe teams want that kind of cancer!
I get that.
And then I remember similar things being said when Tiki Barber retired. He was 60% of the offense! How could he possibly be replaced?
Well, the Giants learned to live without Barber and they could learn to live without OBJ if they so choose.
Running back production is far easier to replace. They also had Plaxico and Toomer. Not to mention a very good OL.
OBJ has been the work horse on a very flawed team. Tiki was the best weapon among many.
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How could he possibly be replaced? Who will Eli throw to?
I get that.
And then I remember similar things being said when Tiki Barber retired. He was 60% of the offense! How could he possibly be replaced?
Well, the Giants learned to live without Barber and they could learn to live without OBJ if they so choose.
Man, we still had Toomer, Plax, Jacobs and 3 rookies in Bradshaw, Smith and Boss that were willing to step up.
that's how...
We have King, Lewis and Stewart to pick up the slack!!!
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How could he possibly be replaced? Who will Eli throw to?
I get that.
And then I remember similar things being said when Tiki Barber retired. He was 60% of the offense! How could he possibly be replaced?
Well, the Giants learned to live without Barber and they could learn to live without OBJ if they so choose.
Man, we still had Toomer, Plax, Jacobs and 3 rookies in Bradshaw, Smith and Boss that were willing to step up.
that's how...
Bradshaw, Smith (who missed eleven games with an injury), and Boss did very little during the regular season.
Yes, we did have Toomer, Plax, and Jacobs (and others), but who's to say no one on the team now, or who they might draft or sign won't step up and collectively make up for the loss of Beckham?
Nobody on this roster is replacing OBJ's production.
Stop now with this train of thought..
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How could he possibly be replaced? Who will Eli throw to?
I get that.
And then I remember similar things being said when Tiki Barber retired. He was 60% of the offense! How could he possibly be replaced?
Well, the Giants learned to live without Barber and they could learn to live without OBJ if they so choose.
Running back production is far easier to replace. They also had Plaxico and Toomer. Not to mention a very good OL.
OBJ has been the work horse on a very flawed team. Tiki was the best weapon among many.
Tiki was more than just a running back. He caught 58 passes in 2006. Again, he was 60% of the offense that year.
The Giants aren't done acquiring weapons or rebuilding their offensive line. If someone makes them an offer they can't refuse - an offer that could help them do both of those things - I hope they take it.
steve in ky; that's a good analogy but like all analogies has incomparables. The star salesman:
1) Get paid by formula and if and only after...not before...he or she performs. This is a guaranteed contract before the years
2) Cannot do things which may penalize other salespeople in the market game
3) the Star Salesperson gets different treatment for internal infractions...but not if they generate external fines, regulatory interference, league oversight, a lot of management time explaining, or takes actions which can reduce team effectiveness in future games as referees call things early and adversarily to "manage" the wild child.
Lets say we have a nail biter 9 and 7 season and miss the wild card because of two penalties and two Pi calls which went against us because the referees don't want to lost control of the game ( a sure way to get league ramifications and questions about their judgement)
I'm not saying he is not a great talent who I hope stays a Giant. I'm saying upfront large sums for a player who can control himself sometimes but is self indulgent at others should for our sakes and his and his teammates...be earned.
I take the comments Mara said about the QB situation, the draft and OBJ...and said maybe he learned from last year that he is 100% responsible for running an actual business not just being a steward of what Wellington wrought
I get that.
And then I remember similar things being said when Tiki Barber retired. He was 60% of the offense! How could he possibly be replaced?
Well, the Giants learned to live without Barber and they could learn to live without OBJ if they so choose.
We were sort of fortunate when Barber left because we had a fantastic OL, Jacobs and Ward were already here, and we drafted Bradshaw right after he left.
If we were set up to be able to replace Beckham's production in a similar way, I'd get it - but I don't think we are.
If Beckham goes, all we have left is a slot WR and a TE who sort of doubles as a WR.
WR is a need now. If we deal Beckham, it becomes a huge need. On top of plenty others. So, all we'd be doing is trading him for picks we'll need to use on the same position in hopes that whoever we pick will be anywhere near as good.
We're not going to hit on all our picks - so I guess I don't really see the point in dealing away a known quantity for more lotto tickets.
Nobody on this roster is replacing OBJ's production.
Stop now with this train of thought..
Why? You can't predict the future. Neither can I.
Maybe the Giants will be better off trading Beckham now, while his value is still high. Maybe they won't be. Maybe they'll come to regret it.
Either way, I don't see what's wrong is discussing it.
Different sport, but I Jose Reyes is a similar case. If we give OBJ a huge contract, we cant assume he will maintain his level of greatness considering his size.
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How could he possibly be replaced? Who will Eli throw to?
I get that.
And then I remember similar things being said when Tiki Barber retired. He was 60% of the offense! How could he possibly be replaced?
Well, the Giants learned to live without Barber and they could learn to live without OBJ if they so choose.
We were sort of fortunate when Barber left because we had a fantastic OL, Jacobs and Ward were already here, and we drafted Bradshaw right after he left.
If we were set up to be able to replace Beckham's production in a similar way, I'd get it - but I don't think we are.
If Beckham goes, all we have left is a slot WR and a TE who sort of doubles as a WR.
WR is a need now. If we deal Beckham, it becomes a huge need. On top of plenty others. So, all we'd be doing is trading him for picks we'll need to use on the same position in hopes that whoever we pick will be anywhere near as good.
We're not going to hit on all our picks - so I guess I don't really see the point in dealing away a known quantity for more lotto tickets.
Suppose trading him led to a dramatic improvement in our running game, which has been pathetic for years, let's face it. Another top-tier O-Lineman, maybe two. A better RB than any we have on the roster now. Suppose we didn't have to depend on one guy making ridiculous catches every time our backs were up against the wall.
Take Barkley all you want, it even I dont believe hes going to always get a first down on 3rd and 20. And yet, he better because he would be are only option.
What if OBJ says he's not playing for 8 mill a year. He sees players like Evans and Watkins getting 16 mill a year. What's Mara going to do then?
I don't want to trade OBJ at all and in the end I don't think Mara will have the balls to do so either, but I do see this situation getting a bit worse before it gets better
For all the people saying hes immature and just needs to grow up...hes entering his 5th season in the NFL. Hes already considered a veteran. How long are we supposed to wait?
I doubt that changes least of all while he wears a NY Giants uniform. And that's not hating,insulting, piling on,pretending to be holier than though or calling him a thug. it's just an observation.
Odell is Odell's problem, not everyone else.
None of them are in the same stratosphere of talent, production and importance and all still continue to play and get paid (Finnegan may be retired, not sure on him actually).
Im fine with people wanting our star player to shape up or ship out, but making stuff up gets old.
And Pacman Jones who caused a gunfight that left a bouncer paralyzed
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Sum up people that can not understand that 1 great talent with his attitude ruin a team. But keep justifying him. In the long run you will see how wrong you are, you just will hide, change your mind, make an excuse, say when you changed your mind and how right you were to change it then, every excuse under the sun for people that never admit they are wrong. Beckham is a me player, that is not a leader you want nor a teammate you want. Players will not say it now because he is such a great talent, but it will all come out one day.
yup There is a reason he has never won a football championship on any level ever
I doubt that changes least of all while he wears a NY Giants uniform. And that's not hating,insulting, piling on,pretending to be holier than though or calling him a thug. it's just an observation.
Odell is Odell's problem, not everyone else.
This is getting comical now. Yea, it's Odells fault he didn't win in college or with the Giants.
I don't think the Giants are going to drag their feet with him. He will get signed long term or traded soon IMO. The uncertainty regarding Beckham needs to end.
You just lost the little credibility you had.
McL - I can only assume you didn't see my reply and apology to you on the callout thread you started this morning before it got deleted, so I'll repeat it because that's only fair.
I apologize for any inferences, assumptions and accusations that I cast your way, and I'm sorry for lumping you in with the recent influx of trolls on the site. It was unfair of me to do that, and I know I would be incredibly annoyed if the shoe was on the other foot and someone did that to me.
I made a mistake, and I'll take my lumps accordingly (and deservedly so). My apologies.
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Just like the twelve teams that have made the playoffs each year without him the of the four years he's been a pro. Wide receivers are as easy to find as nearly any other position.
You just lost the little credibility you had.
Six wins his first year. Six wins his second year. Eleven wins his third year largely on the strength of a dominant defense. Last year lost to injury.
This is the guy we can't live without? I'm reminded of the line attributed to Branch Rickey, when one of his players wanted a raise. Something to the effect of, "We came in last with you - we can come in last without you."
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In comment 13886128 Go Terps said:
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Just like the twelve teams that have made the playoffs each year without him the of the four years he's been a pro. Wide receivers are as easy to find as nearly any other position.
You just lost the little credibility you had.
Six wins his first year. Six wins his second year. Eleven wins his third year largely on the strength of a dominant defense. Last year lost to injury.
This is the guy we can't live without? I'm reminded of the line attributed to Branch Rickey, when one of his players wanted a raise. Something to the effect of, "We came in last with you - we can come in last without you."
You should take a moment to look at their W/L with Beckham in the lineup vs. without, along with Eli's stats throwing to Beckham vs. throwing to anyone else.
Getting rid of Beckham basically ensures the end of Eli's effectiveness and sets the rebuilding process back a full year by itself, and that's assuming that whatever they would hypothetically get back in trade for Beckham turns into some combination resulting in at least 50% of Beckham's effect on the team's (and Eli's) success.
I'm not impressed by the appearance of him being liked by his teammates, because his teammates comprise a losing team.
It would be one thing if the Gisnts were upper-tier and his teammates constantly credit OBJ as a reason behind it. But that's far from the case.
What do you expect of him? What should you expect of him? Let me ask that another way "He is a football player - what should you expect of him on the foled that he is not not delivered - above and beyond?
What has he done off the field that is that bad that you should condier getting rid of him?
John Mara - his judgment is so stellar. He is the guy who ignored Kevin Gilbride's warning about getting better OLIne players until it was too late. Then, he takes cheap shots at Gilbride as he and after he is let go. Maybe we should be shopping Mara.
The guy can't stop embarrassing himself and the team and I think Mara has seen enough. Don't blame him a bit either. The new regime wants to win the right way and Beckham doesn't appear to care about that. Dump him now.
He's a distraction to his teammates? They don't seem to think so. One of hardest workers form practice thru game time.
Mara - do not think it is ever a good idea to have people in maangement who cannot be fires.
I don't see Mara signing off on an extension anytime soon.
The guy can't stop embarrassing himself and the team and I think Mara has seen enough. Don't blame him a bit either. The new regime wants to win the right way and Beckham doesn't appear to care about that. Dump him now.
Bill Bellicheck has had guys who have had worse transgressions
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What did OBJ do?
It's more a matter of what he is than what he did. It's not wrong for people to form opinions about the character of another person with whom they have repeated dealings. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. It seems john Mara, and quite a few others have formed their shared opinion of just who Odell is.
What is he exactly?
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In comment 13886138 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 13886128 Go Terps said:
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Just like the twelve teams that have made the playoffs each year without him the of the four years he's been a pro. Wide receivers are as easy to find as nearly any other position.
You just lost the little credibility you had.
Six wins his first year. Six wins his second year. Eleven wins his third year largely on the strength of a dominant defense. Last year lost to injury.
This is the guy we can't live without? I'm reminded of the line attributed to Branch Rickey, when one of his players wanted a raise. Something to the effect of, "We came in last with you - we can come in last without you."
You should take a moment to look at their W/L with Beckham in the lineup vs. without, along with Eli's stats throwing to Beckham vs. throwing to anyone else.
Getting rid of Beckham basically ensures the end of Eli's effectiveness and sets the rebuilding process back a full year by itself, and that's assuming that whatever they would hypothetically get back in trade for Beckham turns into some combination resulting in at least 50% of Beckham's effect on the team's (and Eli's) success.
First of all, MaCrap's offense was terrible, so yes, you will struggle even more without your best receiver. Secondly, we lost 4 receivers in week 5. Shep was never fully healthy after that when he did play. So Eli was playing with starting WRs that weren't even on the team (90 man version) in August. So yeah, his stats will be bad. Having a new OC will do wonders for everyone.
NFL teams - core mission win football games, how important is OBJ to maing that happen?
What is his value - almost unparalleled on the field, off the field mainly some immaturity.
NFL teams - core mission win football games, how important is OBJ to maing that happen?
Not as much as you think.
The main reason to get rid of OBJ is economic. Can you afford to pay him and still field a competitive team? There is a price to be paid when you pay guys big bucks.
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NFL teams - core mission win football games, how important is OBJ to maing that happen?
Not as much as you think.
The main reason to get rid of OBJ is economic. Can you afford to pay him and still field a competitive team? There is a price to be paid when you pay guys big bucks.
An average QB made $30 million and they still spent $200 million on defense. This is a false argument.
An average QB made $30 million and they still spent $200 million on defense. This is a false argument.
Please learn how the cap works and be accurate with your numbers. Eli maxed out at 24M in 2016 against the cap. The $200ish million the Giants spent on defense in 2016 is prorated over a number of years against the salary cap.
The salary cap does fucking matter. You don't pay guys and have it not count against your salary cap at some point. Sure you can defer the hit to some extent...but it IS going to matter. JPP is gone not because he sucks...but because the Giants could not afford to keep him long term. Want to pay that bright and shiny player, fine...but you ARE going to hurt your team elsewhere. That's why there is a salary cap.
Why do the Giants suck? Because they drafted like shit...and then did not have the salary cap room to acquire talent in other ways.
Ian rapoport just tweeted he's heard Odell won't step on field without a new deal this year.
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In comment 13886228 AnnapolisMike said:
An average QB made $30 million and they still spent $200 million on defense. This is a false argument.
Please learn how the cap works and be accurate with your numbers. Eli maxed out at 24M in 2016 against the cap. The $200ish million the Giants spent on defense in 2016 is prorated over a number of years against the salary cap.
The salary cap does fucking matter. You don't pay guys and have it not count against your salary cap at some point. Sure you can defer the hit to some extent...but it IS going to matter. JPP is gone not because he sucks...but because the Giants could not afford to keep him long term. Want to pay that bright and shiny player, fine...but you ARE going to hurt your team elsewhere. That's why there is a salary cap.
Why do the Giants suck? Because they drafted like shit...and then did not have the salary cap room to acquire talent in other ways.
I know how the cap works, way to take everything all to literal. Let me lay it out for you: the Steelers pay Antonio Brown, Ben and will pay Bell and will still be in the playoffs.
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Six wins his first year. Six wins his second year. Eleven wins his third year largely on the strength of a dominant defense. Last year lost to injury.
This is the guy we can't live without? I'm reminded of the line attributed to Branch Rickey, when one of his players wanted a raise. Something to the effect of, "We came in last with you - we can come in last without you."
You should take a moment to look at their W/L with Beckham in the lineup vs. without, along with Eli's stats throwing to Beckham vs. throwing to anyone else.
Getting rid of Beckham basically ensures the end of Eli's effectiveness and sets the rebuilding process back a full year by itself, and that's assuming that whatever they would hypothetically get back in trade for Beckham turns into some combination resulting in at least 50% of Beckham's effect on the team's (and Eli's) success.
Honestly, GD, I don't think we'd be that bad off. Eli ha a better year in 2009 than he did in 2008, without Plax and Toomer, his primary targets for the previous four years. Steve Smith stepped up big-time, more than doubling his numbers from the previous year. Mario Manningham in his second year was healthy and productive, and a rookie Nicks made a significant contribution as well.
I don't like putting all of my eggs in OBJ's basket (which is going to be a very costly basket, at that), and I don't see losing him as the end of the world.
Well in this world OBJ, Eli and the Giants have pretty much sucked. But if you want to believe that paying OBJ 18M a year will make them better down the line...fine. In the world that the Giants are on the cusp of greatness ...then fine, you pay a guy like OBJ the money to get you over the top. But in THIS world, paying OBJ robs you of cap space you need to field a competitive team.
Listen, if the salary cap world did not exist, you want OBJ on this team. But there seems to be a thought that cap limitations do not matter or that a smart front office can make anything happen. That is simply not true.
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still waiting to hear on what world are the Giants and Eli better off without OBJ.
Well in this world OBJ, Eli and the Giants have pretty much sucked. But if you want to believe that paying OBJ 18M a year will make them better down the line...fine. In the world that the Giants are on the cusp of greatness ...then fine, you pay a guy like OBJ the money to get you over the top. But in THIS world, paying OBJ robs you of cap space you need to field a competitive team.
Listen, if the salary cap world did not exist, you want OBJ on this team. But there seems to be a thought that cap limitations do not matter or that a smart front office can make anything happen. That is simply not true.
So you are willing to get rid of a top 3 at his position talent?
And giants don't win 11 games without him in 16
I'm sure Cowboy fans said similar things about Herschel Walker.
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In comment 13886259 Jimmy Googs said:
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still waiting to hear on what world are the Giants and Eli better off without OBJ.
Well in this world OBJ, Eli and the Giants have pretty much sucked. But if you want to believe that paying OBJ 18M a year will make them better down the line...fine. In the world that the Giants are on the cusp of greatness ...then fine, you pay a guy like OBJ the money to get you over the top. But in THIS world, paying OBJ robs you of cap space you need to field a competitive team.
Listen, if the salary cap world did not exist, you want OBJ on this team. But there seems to be a thought that cap limitations do not matter or that a smart front office can make anything happen. That is simply not true.
So you are willing to get rid of a top 3 at his position talent?
And giants don't win 11 games without him in 16
Giants won because of their defense. Their offense was historically terrible, partially because they ran a simplified passing game hinging largely on Beckham and hoping hed do everything.
Losing Beckham might deliver a Tiki Barber effect where the rest of the team wakes up and becomes better.
You think this team gets better if you trade him? You are out of your mind
Stop bringing up tiki..
Giants have zero players to replace beckham...
You think this team gets better if you trade him? You are out of your mind
Stop bringing up tiki..
Giants have zero players to replace beckham...
Yes. I believe it can easily survive his departure and become a more balanced team.
The Tiki analogy is appropriate. Dont tell me what to bring up or not to you.
Have you looked at elis stats throwing to Beckham vs throwing to other receivers?..
Have you looked at elis stats throwing to Beckham vs throwing to other receivers?..
Eli is as much a part of the problem right now as Beckham is. Im for cutting them both loose.
Brown is an interesting comparison. Like OBJ, he is extremely self-involved. And I may feel exactly like I do with OBJ if I was a Steelers fan. Moreover, I think Roeth is still the main cog in the Steelers engine and they would still be a prolific offense without him. Roeth is a real playmaker and has shown the ability to elevate players around him. He is a great, great QB.
The reaction here with the OBJ is God crowd is that hes completely irreplaceable and the Giants will never score another TD, get a first down, or complete a forward pass without him. Hes a great player. But receivers are getting like running backs - they grow on trees. They are everywhere. And they are nowhere as critical to a team's success as the QB.
Brown is an interesting comparison. Like OBJ, he is extremely self-involved. And I may feel exactly like I do with OBJ if I was a Steelers fan. Moreover, I think Roeth is still the main cog in the Steelers engine and they would still be a prolific offense without him. Roeth is a real playmaker and has shown the ability to elevate players around him. He is a great, great QB.
The reaction here with the OBJ is God crowd is that hes completely irreplaceable and the Giants will never score another TD, get a first down, or complete a forward pass without him. Hes a great player. But receivers are getting like running backs - they grow on trees. They are everywhere. And they are nowhere as critical to a team's success as the QB.
Didn't they win the superbowl without gronk?
And the 2 superbowls he played in they lost?
The guy can't stop embarrassing himself and the team and I think Mara has seen enough. Don't blame him a bit either. The new regime wants to win the right way and Beckham doesn't appear to care about that. Dump him now.
Belichick drafted, rostered, and played Aaron Hernandez, who used drugs, sold drugs, and murdered people.
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Just like the twelve teams that have made the playoffs each year without him the of the four years he's been a pro. Wide receivers are as easy to find as nearly any other position.
You just lost the little credibility you had.
I disagree, Terps was saying that there are 12 playoff teams out there who do not have OBJ. He is a valuable player but C'mon, the Giants suck with him so it is not all that.
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No one has won more Super Bowls than Bill Belichick. Anyone think he would put up with this constant, non-team oriented distraction in spite of the obvious talent? Beckham would already be gone if he played for him. Guys like Beckham cause their team to lose focus and that can't happen if a team wants to be successful.
The guy can't stop embarrassing himself and the team and I think Mara has seen enough. Don't blame him a bit either. The new regime wants to win the right way and Beckham doesn't appear to care about that. Dump him now.
Belichick drafted, rostered, and played Aaron Hernandez, who used drugs, sold drugs, and murdered people.
Not to mention he has grknk...
And giants don't win 11 games without him in 16
Defense drove the Giants in 16. Sure OBJ helped....but was worthless in the playoffs.
I have no problem getting rid of a top 3 WR if signing him to that contract degrades other areas of the team in a way that exceeds the benefits of having that expensive player.
It's a dilemma, I'm glad I don't have to make this call. He's a tremendous talent who is also an immature person and endless distraction who lacks maturity and good judgement.
The Mara comment about nobody being untouchable when you're 3-13 is the most intelligent thing he's said publicly in years. Scholarship time is over.
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When OBJ has the hardware that Gronk has, lets talk further...
Brown is an interesting comparison. Like OBJ, he is extremely self-involved. And I may feel exactly like I do with OBJ if I was a Steelers fan. Moreover, I think Roeth is still the main cog in the Steelers engine and they would still be a prolific offense without him. Roeth is a real playmaker and has shown the ability to elevate players around him. He is a great, great QB.
The reaction here with the OBJ is God crowd is that hes completely irreplaceable and the Giants will never score another TD, get a first down, or complete a forward pass without him. Hes a great player. But receivers are getting like running backs - they grow on trees. They are everywhere. And they are nowhere as critical to a team's success as the QB.
Didn't they win the superbowl without gronk?
And the 2 superbowls he played in they lost?
No, Gronk was huge in the win over Seattle. Yes, they have won without Gronk. And typically with a less than stellar WR corp...
It's a dilemma, I'm glad I don't have to make this call. He's a tremendous talent who is also an immature person and endless distraction who lacks maturity and good judgement.
The Mara comment about nobody being untouchable when you're 3-13 is the most intelligent thing he's said publicly in years. Scholarship time is over.
It's not that he does not behave himself. He really has not done anything abhorrent. It is just a death of 100 little cuts. There is always something going on with OBJ, it is the nature of the beast. He relishes the spotlight and for better or worse will always be in it.
Belichick simply wouldn't have answered. Doesn't mean he hasn't been asked. Part of this is because John Mara has all of a sudden decided to also become team spokesman. He doesn't have to answer these questions at all - he chooses to.
Take, for example, the way Robert Kraft (a more appropriate comparison to Mara than Belichick is) spoke about Aaron Hernandez after Hernandez was arrested FOR MURDER(!) - Kraft initially dodged the questions and called Hernandez "a most likeable young man." In contrast, Mara chooses to address Beckham through the media. This is a very public contract negotiation that we're witnessing, IMO.
How many questions did Jeffrey Lurie (or even Paul Allen) answer about Michael Bennett? How many did Woody (or Chris) Johnson answer about Robby Anderson?
The media asks ad nauseum about OBJ because OBJ sells papers and generates clicks. John Mara chooses to take the bait.
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In comment 13886389 bw in dc said:
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When OBJ has the hardware that Gronk has, lets talk further...
Brown is an interesting comparison. Like OBJ, he is extremely self-involved. And I may feel exactly like I do with OBJ if I was a Steelers fan. Moreover, I think Roeth is still the main cog in the Steelers engine and they would still be a prolific offense without him. Roeth is a real playmaker and has shown the ability to elevate players around him. He is a great, great QB.
The reaction here with the OBJ is God crowd is that hes completely irreplaceable and the Giants will never score another TD, get a first down, or complete a forward pass without him. Hes a great player. But receivers are getting like running backs - they grow on trees. They are everywhere. And they are nowhere as critical to a team's success as the QB.
Didn't they win the superbowl without gronk?
And the 2 superbowls he played in they lost?
No, Gronk was huge in the win over Seattle. Yes, they have won without Gronk. And typically with a less than stellar WR corp...
Bw I was seriously asking I couldn't remember
Between his public whining, his knee-jerk statements about stuff he doesn't understand ("who knew Jerrel Jernigan could play?"), commenting publicly on trade talks and frustrations with players, and his idiotic handling of the Eli situation last year, he is just making himself look more and more like Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder.
Mr. Mara...for the sake of the team, just shut up!
Between his public whining, his knee-jerk statements about stuff he doesn't understand ("who knew Jerrel Jernigan could play?"), commenting publicly on trade talks and frustrations with players, and his idiotic handling of the Eli situation last year, he is just making himself look more and more like Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder.
Mr. Mara...for the sake of the team, just shut up!
Why does Beckham do things or put himself in situations which create these firestorms in the first place? I have no problem with Mara sending a warning shot.
Why does Beckham do things or put himself in situations which create these firestorms in the first place? I have no problem with Mara sending a warning shot.
Remind me what Beckham did to put himself in this situation?
Jeez, the guy owns the team and is asked a direct question... I thought his answer was perfect personally.
I lOVE OBJ as a player and want him on the team, but the guy acts like a first rate idiot... and I have no problem with the team evaluating whether they want to invest that much of our salary cap in a guy who is a constant idiot and who hasn't helped us win many more games than we likely would have won without him.
None of these decisions are made in a vacuum fellas.
Say the Giants want to trade OBJ. Is it better to trade him before or after you vent your frustration with him to the media?
Say the Giants are interested in disguising their true intentions in the draft? Is it better to let teams wonder if the Jets approached you and you turned them down, or better to let everyone know you were never in a discussion?
The point is not about what he decides to do. It is about keeping these things in house because they do not help anything other than to stir headlines and make him feel better about venting.
Remind me what Beckham did to put himself in this situation?
Holy shit...Really? Are you that blind to the glare of the spotlight that is on him. Norman, Dog, Coke, Kicking Net, boat, tantrums, avoiding OTA's, holding out now.
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Remind me what Beckham did to put himself in this situation?
Holy shit...Really? Are you that blind to the glare of the spotlight that is on him. Norman, Dog, Coke, Kicking Net, boat, tantrums, avoiding OTA's, holding out now.
Holy Shit!!! You did notice that the hold out thing was from the media, and not from Beckham right? Please tell me that you understand the basic premise of what is happening?
Let me make this simple for you. What drove Mara to speak out right now? The Norman thing? He's been sitting on his anger over that for over two years now? Or did he just see the tape on the dog peeing celebration?
Are you serious with this?
You are right. If OBJ was a Cowboy I would be hoping they would trade him out of the division.
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In comment 13886140 Klaatu said:
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Six wins his first year. Six wins his second year. Eleven wins his third year largely on the strength of a dominant defense. Last year lost to injury.
This is the guy we can't live without? I'm reminded of the line attributed to Branch Rickey, when one of his players wanted a raise. Something to the effect of, "We came in last with you - we can come in last without you."
You should take a moment to look at their W/L with Beckham in the lineup vs. without, along with Eli's stats throwing to Beckham vs. throwing to anyone else.
Getting rid of Beckham basically ensures the end of Eli's effectiveness and sets the rebuilding process back a full year by itself, and that's assuming that whatever they would hypothetically get back in trade for Beckham turns into some combination resulting in at least 50% of Beckham's effect on the team's (and Eli's) success.
Honestly, GD, I don't think we'd be that bad off. Eli ha a better year in 2009 than he did in 2008, without Plax and Toomer, his primary targets for the previous four years. Steve Smith stepped up big-time, more than doubling his numbers from the previous year. Mario Manningham in his second year was healthy and productive, and a rookie Nicks made a significant contribution as well.
I don't like putting all of my eggs in OBJ's basket (which is going to be a very costly basket, at that), and I don't see losing him as the end of the world.
Agree completely.
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In comment 13886140 Klaatu said:
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Six wins his first year. Six wins his second year. Eleven wins his third year largely on the strength of a dominant defense. Last year lost to injury.
This is the guy we can't live without? I'm reminded of the line attributed to Branch Rickey, when one of his players wanted a raise. Something to the effect of, "We came in last with you - we can come in last without you."
You should take a moment to look at their W/L with Beckham in the lineup vs. without, along with Eli's stats throwing to Beckham vs. throwing to anyone else.
Getting rid of Beckham basically ensures the end of Eli's effectiveness and sets the rebuilding process back a full year by itself, and that's assuming that whatever they would hypothetically get back in trade for Beckham turns into some combination resulting in at least 50% of Beckham's effect on the team's (and Eli's) success.
Honestly, GD, I don't think we'd be that bad off. Eli ha a better year in 2009 than he did in 2008, without Plax and Toomer, his primary targets for the previous four years. Steve Smith stepped up big-time, more than doubling his numbers from the previous year. Mario Manningham in his second year was healthy and productive, and a rookie Nicks made a significant contribution as well.
I don't like putting all of my eggs in OBJ's basket (which is going to be a very costly basket, at that), and I don't see losing him as the end of the world.
Good post Klaatu. I agree. There is risk either way, but tying up that kind of $$ and length in a guy like this is to me riskier.
Jeez, the guy owns the team and is asked a direct question... I thought his answer was perfect personally.
I tend to agree - and I'm not one to ride to the support of Ole Mara. But this was innocuous. Looking for blame here on Mara is simply deflecting from the real problem - OBJ's act.
Well, those are interesting remarks. And I totally agree Mara should get the bulk of the blame for the GenoGate fiasco. That was the height of incompetent management.
But Odell has embarrassed the organization quite a bit since he arrived. So Mara should never be quiet about that...
So you would suggest a war of words in the media is the right way for this to be handled?
So you would suggest a war of words in the media is the right way for this to be handled?
No, and Mara won't engage in that. That's far from his style. He's a dove. Yesterday was more of a on-off - IMV.
I fully expect OBJ to be the one who will do most of the talking from this point forward, especially since he just threw down the gauntlet...
Eli will be released /reduced (alaPeyton)after this year. Webb or other QB will be starting in 2019. With OBJ's personality, he may be more trouble than he is worth.
If Giants can get at least a top half 1st round pick for him .... OBJ enjoy your new life in Buffalo? Cleveland?JETS?
he is an immense talent... but WR's are only fully involved in 1/3 of plays.
he needs to prove that he is maturing .
"Next Question"
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So you would suggest a war of words in the media is the right way for this to be handled?
No, and Mara won't engage in that. That's far from his style. He's a dove. Yesterday was more of a on-off - IMV.
I fully expect OBJ to be the one who will do most of the talking from this point forward, especially since he just threw down the gauntlet...
How did OBJ throw down the gauntlet? Mara is quoted in the paper. OBJ is not.
How did OBJ throw down the gauntlet? Mara is quoted in the paper. OBJ is not.
He's not playing without a new contract while under contract - the gauntlet.
Wait, you don't think OBJ is behind Rapoport's reporting?
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How did OBJ throw down the gauntlet? Mara is quoted in the paper. OBJ is not.
He's not playing without a new contract while under contract - the gauntlet.
Wait, you don't think OBJ is behind Rapoport's reporting?
Wait, you don't think that is hinted at to a reporter as a negotiating ploy, not a line in the sand?
When he goes on record saying he is not coming to camp, or when camp opens and he is not there, he has "thrown down the gauntlet." Until then, this is business as usual.
Wait, you don't think that is hinted at to a reporter as a negotiating ploy, not a line in the sand?
When he goes on record saying he is not coming to camp, or when camp opens and he is not there, he has "thrown down the gauntlet." Until then, this is business as usual.
I hear you - fair enough.
What does it feel like to be staggered?
Zero
Zero
Eli hasn't done anything for the Giants in a few years.
Nobody on this roster up to ownership has done anything for the Giants in awhile.
Zero
Fans love to tell players they're not tough if they miss games, then pull this card when they play hurt and then really get hurt. Nice.
And the answer to my rhetorical question... we are not better off in this world without OBJ. At last not yet.
So clearly several of you are not of this world...