|
|
Â
|
| Quote: |
| “I always admired the way the Packers handled it with Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers, so that’s a factor,’’ Mara said at the NFL owners’ meetings. |
| Quote: |
| “I think a lot of times that’s unavoidable in this sport,” Mara said of hurting the feelings of the incumbent quarterback. “You have to make decisions that are in the long-term best interests of the franchise. If feelings get hurt, you try not to do that, but if they do, they do.” Mara said the Jets never called the Giants about trading up to get the second pick. The Jets struck a deal with the Colts to land the No. 3 pick. Mara said it is too early in the evaluation process to know whom the Giants are targeting and, ultimately, whom they will take the night of April 26. “You want to know who we’re going to pick? We don’t,” Mara said. “We’re very early on in the process. You can give me eight different scenarios and I can tell you that it’s a possibility. |
| Quote: |
| “Believe me when I tell you, I don’t know if we’re taking a quarterback.” “They’re all important picks, but the No. 2 pick in the draft is an important pick that can have a huge effect on the future of this franchise, so you have to make the right decision,’’ Mara said. “The way I look at it is it’s an opportunity for us to get a lot better, being able to pick at the top of each of these rounds and particularly with the amount of quality at the top of this draft, it gives us a chance to do something.” As far as trading down in the draft to acquire additional picks, Mara said, “The way I look at that, if we wanted to do that, tell me who we’re gonna get with these other picks and then compare that with the person we could have got with the second pick, and then let’s see which scenario’s gonna make us better.” |
True. But I think his quote on trading down just reaffirms the Giant organization philosophy of not considering it a wise move, not that I agree with it if you are overwhelmed with a trade offer.
FWIW, I was in camp Riddick at the time, but liked the DG decision as an alternative
#1- he is the prototype that teams look for- size, arm, athleticism
#2- apparently he has killed the interview process and impressed teams in that regard
#3- he has had the best pre-draft process of the group, killing it at the senior bowl, combine, and his pro-day
#4- his personality meshes the best with the Giants staff/organization. No off-the-field concerns.
#5- he has shown marked improvement since the end of the season. Means that he takes well to coaching and will only get better once he gets to work with Shurmur
#6- he makes most sense as a developmental guy who can sit for 2 years behind Eli. He is raw, but has the most upside. Baker on the other hand will not sit easy behind Eli, and Rosen is the guy who is praised for his readiness to play instead. Why not take the high upside guy over the pro ready guy if you plan on grooming a guy for 2 years anyway.
#1- he is the prototype that teams look for- size, arm, athleticism
#2- apparently he has killed the interview process and impressed teams in that regard
#3- he has had the best pre-draft process of the group, killing it at the senior bowl, combine, and his pro-day
#4- his personality meshes the best with the Giants staff/organization. No off-the-field concerns.
#5- he has shown marked improvement since the end of the season. Means that he takes well to coaching and will only get better once he gets to work with Shurmur
#6- he makes most sense as a developmental guy who can sit for 2 years behind Eli. He is raw, but has the most upside. Baker on the other hand will not sit easy behind Eli, and Rosen is the guy who is praised for his readiness to play instead. Why not take the high upside guy over the pro ready guy if you plan on grooming a guy for 2 years anyway.
How can you confirm #2? How fo we know how the QBs did?
Quote:
that if Darnold goes #1 and the Giants take a QB, it will be Josh Allen over Rosen/Mayfield.
#1- he is the prototype that teams look for- size, arm, athleticism
#2- apparently he has killed the interview process and impressed teams in that regard
#3- he has had the best pre-draft process of the group, killing it at the senior bowl, combine, and his pro-day
#4- his personality meshes the best with the Giants staff/organization. No off-the-field concerns.
#5- he has shown marked improvement since the end of the season. Means that he takes well to coaching and will only get better once he gets to work with Shurmur
#6- he makes most sense as a developmental guy who can sit for 2 years behind Eli. He is raw, but has the most upside. Baker on the other hand will not sit easy behind Eli, and Rosen is the guy who is praised for his readiness to play instead. Why not take the high upside guy over the pro ready guy if you plan on grooming a guy for 2 years anyway.
How can you confirm #2? How fo we know how the QBs did?
I can't confirm that myself obviously...this is what they have been talking about on NFL network. Saying that Allen has impressed teams on the whiteboard with his knowledge. This is why I phrased it as "apparently he has killed the interview process"
Quote:
In comment 13885475 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
that if Darnold goes #1 and the Giants take a QB, it will be Josh Allen over Rosen/Mayfield.
#1- he is the prototype that teams look for- size, arm, athleticism
#2- apparently he has killed the interview process and impressed teams in that regard
#3- he has had the best pre-draft process of the group, killing it at the senior bowl, combine, and his pro-day
#4- his personality meshes the best with the Giants staff/organization. No off-the-field concerns.
#5- he has shown marked improvement since the end of the season. Means that he takes well to coaching and will only get better once he gets to work with Shurmur
#6- he makes most sense as a developmental guy who can sit for 2 years behind Eli. He is raw, but has the most upside. Baker on the other hand will not sit easy behind Eli, and Rosen is the guy who is praised for his readiness to play instead. Why not take the high upside guy over the pro ready guy if you plan on grooming a guy for 2 years anyway.
How can you confirm #2? How fo we know how the QBs did?
I can't confirm that myself obviously...this is what they have been talking about on NFL network. Saying that Allen has impressed teams on the whiteboard with his knowledge. This is why I phrased it as "apparently he has killed the interview process"
Fair enough. If you went strictly on your pro day workouts however, I think Darnold's in the rain and Rosen's in the wind had better workouts.
1) they are not close to their own board
2) therefore trades are speculative
3) media does not know what they are saying when it comes to the Giants
4) it was a pre emptive message to Eli...what ever will be will be. Hope it looks like green bays luck but you never know.
5) maybe a qb and maybe not
6) they are very aware how important this draft is to their prospects
1) they are not close to their own board
2) therefore trades are speculative
3) media does not know what they are saying when it comes to the Giants
4) it was a pre emptive message to Eli...what ever will be will be. Hope it looks like green bays luck but you never know.
5) maybe a qb and maybe not
6) they are very aware how important this draft is to their prospects
RE #4: Mara might want to brush up on how much of a soap opera the transition between Favre and Rodgers ended up being.
Long-term my opinion it just would be so much easier to move on from Manning now. New GM, new coach, #2 pick with legit QB prospects. It's a picture perfect time.
Alternative now is either the embarrassment of struggling and getting benched or squeezing out mediocrity and prolonging turning this around.
I actually thought this was very telling and a great way to look at it and what the Giants will do. You can tell Mara at 2,3,4,5 which impact players you think we could have and be very accurate. At 12 and 22 it would much more of a guess. Mara is pretty much saying, we cannot mess this up this year so if you don't take the 2nd pick you better be very well sure who you are getting in return.
It is not about the pick, it is about the player.
Do you believe as presently constructed and with achievable improvements to the roster, an Eli Manning led Giants team can win a Super Bowl in the next 2 years?
Fair enough. I find it difficult to apply that logic to a 3-13 team, a brand new system on both sides of the ball, and an aging quarterback.
The 06 Giants and 16 Eagles were 8-8, and 7-9. 3-13 and largely uncompetitive against some of the worst teams in the league is a much different year.
If a QB is chosen this is Elis last year with the Giants unless we make the playoffs. No reason to keep an expensive QB and not make the playoffs.
My best guess is that we,are taking a QB, too many teams are excited about this group.
I actually believe him that NYG really haven't made a concrete decision yet one way or another.
This is going to be a hell of a draft day. We have so many directions we can go in.
All I want them to do is go with the guy they have the strongest convictions on.
I don't want to see a QB taken just for the sake of taking a QB... but if they love one of these guys (and it's not the one CLE takes), then I hope they DO take a QB.
If they have Barkley at the top of the board and think he's the best player in this draft, they should take Barkley.
I don't think Eli has much time left and think as time goes on, he's only going to need more around him to succeed - but I wouldn't be shocked if Eli played well enough to get us back to 9-10 wins with a good enough OL and the help he needs
One thing is certain:
This is a turning point for the Giants franchise. A huge one. They need to get this right. It's literally a franchise-altering decision.
Quote:
I believe its a league to league year. No one thought we would win in 07 or the eagles last year. So yeah, understanding the league, its possible for sure
Fair enough. I find it difficult to apply that logic to a 3-13 team, a brand new system on both sides of the ball, and an aging quarterback.
The 06 Giants and 16 Eagles were 8-8, and 7-9. 3-13 and largely uncompetitive against some of the worst teams in the league is a much different year.
When you look at how many injuries NYG had last year, most of the team were back ups, especially at the skill positions on Offense and LB. Our O Ljne will be better and we should have a better running game. The big question for a turnaround will be the new defensive scheme and fitting this pieces together.
A turn around is not out of the question, even a 3-13 team.
So now take a QB who's a year older, a brand new system for the offense and defense, 4-5 offensive lineman playing in new positions, the teams best player coming back from a season ending injury, presumptive position changes for several defensive lineman and linebackers.
If everything goes well, I'd expect 6-7 wins and call it a really impressive improvement.
If a QB is chosen this is Elis last year with the Giants unless we make the playoffs. No reason to keep an expensive QB and not make the playoffs.
My best guess is that we,are taking a QB, too many teams are excited about this group.
Rudy, that’s a pretty good way to look at. May almost be guaranteed if the Giants draft a QB.
We'll see someone else under center if we get off to a 1-4 start or something like that. But until then, Eli is almost certainly going to be the guy regardless of whether or not we take a QB.
I think it's the right move.
You really have to be sure your franchise QB is finished before you move on. I give Britt flak on this subject because I think he's way too attached to Eli - but I do think he's right about at least this... the whole "better to move on a year too early than a year too late..." thing really shouldn't apply to QB's.
We'll see someone else under center if we get off to a 1-4 start or something like that. But until then, Eli is almost certainly going to be the guy regardless of whether or not we take a QB.
I think it's the right move.
You really have to be sure your franchise QB is finished before you move on. I give Britt flak on this subject because I think he's way too attached to Eli - but I do think he's right about at least this... the whole "better to move on a year too early than a year too late..." thing really shouldn't apply to QB's.
This team is a majorly tough spot. Maybe Manning isn't done, but this team as constructed basically gives him as little help as any in his career.
The bigger question should be: presumably the talent and acclimation to the system rises as the age and presumably productivity of the QB declines.
Are these trajectories going to cross to produce a chance to win a championship?
If the answer seems like no, what is the point of picking a QB, paying nearly 30M in cap dollars to the position on the type of team where 6-7 wins is the ceiling?
Quote:
Even if the Giants draft a QB, I think the expectation will still be that Eli is the starter.
We'll see someone else under center if we get off to a 1-4 start or something like that. But until then, Eli is almost certainly going to be the guy regardless of whether or not we take a QB.
I think it's the right move.
You really have to be sure your franchise QB is finished before you move on. I give Britt flak on this subject because I think he's way too attached to Eli - but I do think he's right about at least this... the whole "better to move on a year too early than a year too late..." thing really shouldn't apply to QB's.
This team is a majorly tough spot. Maybe Manning isn't done, but this team as constructed basically gives him as little help as any in his career.
The bigger question should be: presumably the talent and acclimation to the system rises as the age and presumably productivity of the QB declines.
Are these trajectories going to cross to produce a chance to win a championship?
If the answer seems like no, what is the point of picking a QB, paying nearly 30M in cap dollars to the position on the type of team where 6-7 wins is the ceiling?
I go back and forth on it a lot. I don't think there's an easy answer.
I think they're (for better or worse) looking at the fact that we won 11 games just 2 years ago with Eli - with a pretty crappy OL and run game.
FO probably feels like if we improve the line and protect him, and give him a better run game - and have a healthy Beckham, that we can be better.
I still think the wise move is to take a QB if they love one of them @ 2 - even if Eli is still the starter short-term.
This is almost certainly the best chance we're going to get in the near future. Like I said before - this is the highest we've picked since we took LT all the way back in '81. And, it's a strong QB class.
That said - it really comes down to scouting and what the board looks like.
I don't want them to FORCE a QB pick just because of the opportunity that has presented itself. Take one only if the grading matches up and they feel he can truly be a franchise guy.
We all have our opinions on this - but it's a very difficult crossroads and there's no easy answer.
I just want to see a plan and a course of action. So far, I am starting to see that, but we have a long way to go.
â€
Verified account
@KimJonesSports
1h1 hour ago
More
About the #NYG search for a franchise QB to succeed Eli, John Mara: “Well, I mean we may have one on the roster right now I just don’t know that yet." Referencing Davis Webb, obvi.
I include Smith to Mahomes despite the obvious differences because the potential similarities make it so intriguing (i.e., what if the Giants draft Rosen and Manning has the kind of year that Alex Smith just had?). By trading Smith to a team willing to give him an extension on the one year left of his KC contract, everyone came out ahead. This is the ideal scenario for the Giants in 2019.
Quote:
handled it with Favre and Rodgers? That was a category 3 sh-t show.
There are lessons to be learned from several transitions: Montana to Young, Brees to Rivers, Favre to Rodgers, and Smith to Mahomes.
I include Smith to Mahomes despite the obvious differences because the potential similarities make it so intriguing (i.e., what if the Giants draft Rosen and Manning has the kind of year that Alex Smith just had?). By trading Smith to a team willing to give him an extension on the one year left of his KC contract, everyone came out ahead. This is the ideal scenario for the Giants in 2019.
Manning having anything approaching the season Smith had would be an absolute miracle.
#1- he is the prototype that teams look for- size, arm, athleticism
#2- apparently he has killed the interview process and impressed teams in that regard
#3- he has had the best pre-draft process of the group, killing it at the senior bowl, combine, and his pro-day
#4- his personality meshes the best with the Giants staff/organization. No off-the-field concerns.
#5- he has shown marked improvement since the end of the season. Means that he takes well to coaching and will only get better once he gets to work with Shurmur
#6- he makes most sense as a developmental guy who can sit for 2 years behind Eli. He is raw, but has the most upside. Baker on the other hand will not sit easy behind Eli, and Rosen is the guy who is praised for his readiness to play instead. Why not take the high upside guy over the pro ready guy if you plan on grooming a guy for 2 years anyway.
I hope your feeling is wrong. IMO Allen too risky. A high bust candidate.
Quote:
In comment 13885713 bw in dc said:
Quote:
handled it with Favre and Rodgers? That was a category 3 sh-t show.
There are lessons to be learned from several transitions: Montana to Young, Brees to Rivers, Favre to Rodgers, and Smith to Mahomes.
I include Smith to Mahomes despite the obvious differences because the potential similarities make it so intriguing (i.e., what if the Giants draft Rosen and Manning has the kind of year that Alex Smith just had?). By trading Smith to a team willing to give him an extension on the one year left of his KC contract, everyone came out ahead. This is the ideal scenario for the Giants in 2019.
Manning having anything approaching the season Smith had would be an absolute miracle.
The same Smith who couldn't beat a decimated Giant Team this past season and whose arm gets exposed in a place like Met Stadium when the wind blows.
Quote:
In comment 13885755 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13885713 bw in dc said:
Quote:
handled it with Favre and Rodgers? That was a category 3 sh-t show.
There are lessons to be learned from several transitions: Montana to Young, Brees to Rivers, Favre to Rodgers, and Smith to Mahomes.
I include Smith to Mahomes despite the obvious differences because the potential similarities make it so intriguing (i.e., what if the Giants draft Rosen and Manning has the kind of year that Alex Smith just had?). By trading Smith to a team willing to give him an extension on the one year left of his KC contract, everyone came out ahead. This is the ideal scenario for the Giants in 2019.
Manning having anything approaching the season Smith had would be an absolute miracle.
The same Smith who couldn't beat a decimated Giant Team this past season and whose arm gets exposed in a place like Met Stadium when the wind blows.
Yes, if Manning has a 4K 26/5 season that would be a miracle.
good article...
We'll see someone else under center if we get off to a 1-4 start or something like that. But until then, Eli is almost certainly going to be the guy regardless of whether or not we take a QB.
I think it's the right move.
You really have to be sure your franchise QB is finished before you move on. I give Britt flak on this subject because I think he's way too attached to Eli - but I do think he's right about at least this... the whole "better to move on a year too early than a year too late..." thing really shouldn't apply to QB's.
Wake up. Its 2018 and we need to stop playing games...
Quote:
Even if the Giants draft a QB, I think the expectation will still be that Eli is the starter.
We'll see someone else under center if we get off to a 1-4 start or something like that. But until then, Eli is almost certainly going to be the guy regardless of whether or not we take a QB.
I think it's the right move.
You really have to be sure your franchise QB is finished before you move on. I give Britt flak on this subject because I think he's way too attached to Eli - but I do think he's right about at least this... the whole "better to move on a year too early than a year too late..." thing really shouldn't apply to QB's.
Wake up. Its 2018 and we need to stop playing games...
What games?
If they like one of these QB's, they should take one.
If Eli isn't getting the job done after a few weeks, make the switch.
I'm fine taking a QB @ 2 - I want them to if they have strong enough convictions about any of the guys who will be available when we pick.
But they shouldn't force it.
You are going to get a very good quarterback prospect -- maybe not perfect, but a guy who's got many, many of the qualities needed to succeed. And you're getting 5 years at 6M per, which is a tremendous value.
Even if your board has him at 5-7, it's just stupid to get cute and not get the guy you want at the most important position in all of sports.
Overpicking a QB isn't forcing IMO, and it's not as bad as overpicking another position.
Was listening to Kiper the other day and he made a good point about Allen. The different between 58% and 63% isn't much. It's a few high % throws per game and Allen didn't have any of those. I forget the number, but Allen had the lowest high % opps in football.
Worrying about "worthy" of the second pick is meaningless.
If any of the QBs in their mind project to be very good NFL players, just make the pick.
If Barkely ends up being the best back in the league, and Rosen ends up being a top 10 QB in the league, you still take Rosen every day.
I don't remember that being the case. I do recall the two of them not getting along, and that's what made it a story. Favre was completely unwilling to help the process. That's fine. It's not his job. But that doesn't mean you don't ever draft a QB when you have one on the roster currently. It would be stupid to chain yourself to the whims of a QB's ego.
Doubt it. Teams even communicating with their players during the offseason is limited by labor agreement, much less doing any work on the clock.