Ian Rapoport
& #8207;Verified account @RapSheet
3m3 minutes ago
The #Giants are listening to trade calls/talks for Odell Beckham Jr and there have been several, Im told. @wyche89 says the #Rams No. 23 pick is available. ... whats not clear is whether NY actually wants to trade him. Definitely open to listening, tho
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
5m5 minutes ago
Trading Odell is clearly not a door the Giants want to close. Its not one they necessarily want to go through either.
It would have to be more than a 1st round pick this year. A lot more.
I'd be more surprised if this wasnt happening.
They kept Eli - they're keeping Odell. Giants fans are loyal, the stadium will be packed if they put kids out there who play with heart and will be packed if we get stars and vets and aim for another ring.
When Mara made it clear DG or anyone else that came in kept Eli they made their intentions clear. I would be shocked if they trade OBJ - but surprisingly DG has given me some comfort that if we do, it will be bc it was an offer too good to pass up for the long term future of this team.
Hell might as well trade Eli too jeez
Problem solved.
He was the 14th pick for crying out loud and massively exceeded expectations! If the Giants considered that for one second then I give up on this franchise.
I don't care where his best friend is, NO ONE prefers the Cleveland Browns.
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may actually want to get traded. And if his agent is communicating that to Giants brass.....it makes the possibility more real. Giants don't want someone that doesn't want to be there. Again, I'm speculating here....but he may prefer LA (where he lives) Cleveland (where his best friend, Landry is). We just don't know.
I don't care where his best friend is, NO ONE prefers the Cleveland Browns.
they are getting better. Have added some horses and will add a bunch more with this upcoming draft.
Which could backfire because OB spends his off season in LA and might love going to the Rams. If true, that would make it harder, not easier, for the NYG to get a long term deal. Worst case, he follows Cousins example, strings NYG along under franchise and bust a move when it is too expensive to maintain. Rams CB just did the same to them this off season.
Then yes...
He was the 14th pick for crying out loud and massively exceeded expectations! If the Giants considered that for one second then I give up on this franchise.
and I am not sure how I feel about it.
he is our most dynamic player but I see red flags signing him for big bucks!
And has also threatened to hold out
And has character issues
And will be highest payed WR
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In comment 13889479 Andy in Boston said:
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may actually want to get traded. And if his agent is communicating that to Giants brass.....it makes the possibility more real. Giants don't want someone that doesn't want to be there. Again, I'm speculating here....but he may prefer LA (where he lives) Cleveland (where his best friend, Landry is). We just don't know.
I don't care where his best friend is, NO ONE prefers the Cleveland Browns.
they are getting better. Have added some horses and will add a bunch more with this upcoming draft.
I guarantee Beckham would prefer NY or LA over CLE. His off field opportunities are >>> in those markets.
This.
Mara just said after a 3-13 season everyone is on the block. I'm sure they'd field trade calls for Eli if someone called to ask what the price would be. Doesn't mean they want to get rid of him... but if someone is dumb enough to trade away a boatload of picks you HAVE to at least listen.
Then he STAYS
It would have to be more than a 1st round pick this year. A lot more.
You replace him by changing your offense. An offense can succeed without OBJ. It has happened before.
and I am not sure how I feel about it.
he is our most dynamic player but I see red flags signing him for big bucks!
Who said that?
Especially from the Rams. Two #1s from Cleveland is a different story...
Somebody. Teams replace their best player all the time due to a variety of circumstances.
I don't favor trading OBJ at all, but sometimes teams look at a guy and decide to dump him because of drugs. The Eagles dumped Chris Carter because of drugs; he got his shit together and became a Hall of Fame receiver. In baseball, the Cardinals pretty clearly dumped Keith Hernandez to the Mets (Neil Allen and Rick Ownby? Come on.) because they knew he was on cocaine. They had to deny it, because they broke baseball rules by keeping it a secret and not telling the Mets, but that's what happened.
Engram, Shepherd and Saquon Barkley
thats why I don't buy player jerseys anymore unless they've been on the team for a long time, at least past their first contract.
Players come and go too quickly anymore.
I haven't bought a jersey since Jacobs. Before that it was Plax, Strahan, and Eli.
I would not want NYG to make that trade, but its hard to say it is bad value. Free market is good placing value on things; if that is the best offer they get, that is what the market says OB is worth.
I just love OBJs affect on eth offense. Eli is not the same QB without him.
I just love OBJs affect on eth offense. Eli is not the same QB without him.
No, I would not.
its OBJ plus 18+ million per year.
I am so conflicted!
Which is why a pick swap at the top with the Browns, their #4 and 2x 2nd rounders make sense (or 1x 2nd rounder and Coleman) or something like that. I also agree, OBJ is a transcendent FRANCHISE weapon. You don't trade him for a Brandon Cooks/Patriots style bullshit trade.
It would instantly put Cleveland on the map, legitimize them as an NFL franchise and we get to rebuild our team in one offseason.
Keep in mind that those two picks will be in the 20s. Not sure that's worth it. OBJ is a HoF talent, but in order to rebuild, which I think it's clear that the Giants are doing just that, then I'm not sure paying OBJ 20 Mil a year would be prudent. I'm really split on this, if it were to happen!
Rams get: OBJ
Giants get: Rams 2018 1st and 2nd Round picks, Rams 2019 2nd Round pick, and WR Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods.
Rams get: OBJ
Giants get: Rams 2018 1st and 2nd Round picks, Rams 2019 2nd Round pick, and WR Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods.
Cooper Kupp would be a must get. That guy, in the Shurmur offense Minnesota used would be a clutch 10-18 yard guy and 1st down churner.
Rams get: OBJ
Giants get: Rams 2018 1st and 2nd Round picks, Rams 2019 2nd Round pick, and WR Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods.
I'd give this serious consideration. Kupp,Shepard,Engram is a nice stash of weapons.
Rams get: OBJ
Giants get: Rams 2018 1st and 2nd Round picks, Rams 2019 2nd Round pick, and WR Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods.
Rams don't have a 2nd Round pick this year.
Who exactly on the NFL Network said the Rams were offering two number ones?
This rapaport keeping his Twitter active
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But what if a trade with the Rams went like this.
Rams get: OBJ
Giants get: Rams 2018 1st and 2nd Round picks, Rams 2019 2nd Round pick, and WR Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods.
I'd give this serious consideration. Kupp,Shepard,Engram is a nice stash of weapons.
Beckham, Shepard, Engram is an even better stash of weapons.
If you are going to trade him....it needs to be before the draft. This is the window for the Giants.
That is my take away.
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That's the minimum I'd agree to if I'm the Giants.
Keep in mind that those two picks will be in the 20s. Not sure that's worth it. OBJ is a HoF talent, but in order to rebuild, which I think it's clear that the Giants are doing just that, then I'm not sure paying OBJ 20 Mil a year would be prudent. I'm really split on this, if it were to happen!
The counter is that if this is a rebuild, then Eli should be gone after this season and you have plenty of money to pay your all-pro WR entering the prime of his career. If Webb or the #2 pick are the QB of the future (they better be), then they have a cost controlled QB for the next 3+ seasons which allows you to spend those resources elsewhere.
Rams get: OBJ
Giants get: Rams 2018 1st and 2nd Round picks, Rams 2019 2nd Round pick, and WR Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods.
Rams don't have a 2nd Round pick this year.
Need the Rams 2018 and 2019 1st rd picks at a minimum plus one of their WRs.
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In comment 13889574 Emil said:
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But what if a trade with the Rams went like this.
Rams get: OBJ
Giants get: Rams 2018 1st and 2nd Round picks, Rams 2019 2nd Round pick, and WR Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods.
I'd give this serious consideration. Kupp,Shepard,Engram is a nice stash of weapons.
Beckham, Shepard, Engram is an even better stash of weapons.
This is true. But it would be Kupp,Engram, Shepard, a 1st this year, a 1st next year, and about an additional 10-15 million left on the cap to spend on additional players. That's the overall picture to really compare.
YES!!! You get the Rams #1 & 4 this year and #1 next year - minimum, plus I'd like a "decent 2nd or 3rd year guy" who could and likely would start for us. That is "fair trade"
But he might not want to sign a long-term deal with the Browns.
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In comment 13889560 NYG27 said:
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That's the minimum I'd agree to if I'm the Giants.
Keep in mind that those two picks will be in the 20s. Not sure that's worth it. OBJ is a HoF talent, but in order to rebuild, which I think it's clear that the Giants are doing just that, then I'm not sure paying OBJ 20 Mil a year would be prudent. I'm really split on this, if it were to happen!
The counter is that if this is a rebuild, then Eli should be gone after this season and you have plenty of money to pay your all-pro WR entering the prime of his career. If Webb or the #2 pick are the QB of the future (they better be), then they have a cost controlled QB for the next 3+ seasons which allows you to spend those resources elsewhere.
Since we are playing the speculation game, maybe the Giants are worried about a young QB trying to establish himself as the QB for the present and future with a WR with a lot of fan fare, lot of off the field stuff and a lot of demonstrative stuff on the field. Again, just speculating.
Even the fourth pick isn't enough by itself.
Even the fourth pick isn't enough by itself.
I agree, I want Clevland's #1 for him. Knowing his value now he would be the first pick in the draft.
Or not.
I would trade you and your awful posts for a catheter
One of the draft picks would have to be for an outside speed guy to peel off the top of the defense.
So that would mean:
#23 overall (2018)
1st Round (2019)
2nd Round (2019)
4th Round (2019)
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Unless contract talks breakdown. I see this as the Giants trying to get a feel for the market as a contingency.
If you are going to trade him....it needs to be before the draft. This is the window for the Giants.
Sort of my thinking actually. They don't want to deal with the distractions from a holdout so OBJs threat to do so may have accelerated their timeline in negotiations. Leaking that they're open to offers during owner's meetings is just a way to quickly get an idea of what the market is offering.
Beckham is one of the most dynamic players in the league and he is comfortably the most talented offensive player the Giants have had in my lifetime.
I think a good management team should always listen to offers for everyone. But a good management team would also probably make it work with Beckham. He is an incredible talent.
for
#1 and #4
Get Darnold and Barkley. Win now and win later.
Why? How is this new news, mara told us they would listen to offers because that is what they do...
Rapaport even said in the exact tweet that it is unknown if giants want to trade Beckham or if there is any interest..
So how does this mean they are trading beckham?..
This means a team has called the giants, of course they have this is their job
Market value should come into play when you have a necessity to trade a player. Think JPP a bit. When you're talking about the possibility of trading your best asset - you shoot for the stars and don't take less. There's no need to.
If we get "market value" for Beckham, it is a bad deal.
this sounds like bullshit
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OBJ to Cleveland for #4 and Josh Gordon. Give me the crazy talented wr for 1/5 the cost. Plus Eli Jan better with taller wrs
But he might not want to sign a long-term deal with the Browns.
NYG should not make ANY DECISIONS where Eli is a factor.
That is my take away.
It was amazing how many of them were quickly running to discredit the Daily News report by Leonard yesterday (and many on BBI).
Usually, when you see that mad dash to say something isn't true, I pause and wonder because of them is lying.
Less than 24 hours later, turns out Leonard may have been correct after all.
Well:
1. They weren't winning with him.
2. Other teams are winning without an Odell Beckham.
While I think everyone would much rather see Odell stay on the team for his entire career and maybe become a little easier to root for, this talk about not being able to win without him is kind of ridiculous.
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were to be so stupid as to trade Beckham they have no reason at all to keep Eli. It would be pointless to even pay him. You arent winning fuck all without Beckham. Giving up a 25 year old phenom is really smart.
Well:
1. They weren't winning with him.
2. Other teams are winning without an Odell Beckham.
While I think everyone would much rather see Odell stay on the team for his entire career and maybe become a little easier to root for, this talk about not being able to win without him is kind of ridiculous.
Its not about concerns over winning without him, its about getting what people think is fair value. If we are talking about translating OBJ to Saquon, then okay. If we're talking about OBJ for Calvin Ridley (pick 23 level player) then we're going to hurl ourselves out of the nearest window.
Again - without Beckham, your receivers are Shepard, Marshall (if he's even still here), Lewis, King, assorted flotsam, and maybe a draft pick. Yes, teams can win without Odell Beckham specifically. They're not winning anything with that motley crew of receivers, though. You're opening a new hole on a roster that has plenty of them already. So what's the plan to fill it? Draft picks? OK, but weren't they already assumed to be slated for improvements in other areas like OL, CB, S, etc?
This is particularly to the point if they aren't drafting a QB, meaning they're putting all their chips on an aging, declining quarterback. Sure, in another couple of years maybe the WRs will be a strong group, but who the hell knows how good Eli will be at that point?
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of what is going on.
That is my take away.
It was amazing how many of them were quickly running to discredit the Daily News report by Leonard yesterday (and many on BBI).
Usually, when you see that mad dash to say something isn't true, I pause and wonder because of them is lying.
Less than 24 hours later, turns out Leonard may have been correct after all.
Really?? Leonard is scum and got ran off the rangers beat for making up stories...
Snacks Harrison basically said the sight of Leonard makes him want to puke and called him out as a scrum journalist...
How does this tweet confirm leonard?
Really? You don't think Gettleman is capable of trading Beckham?
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In comment 13889601 ZogZerg said:
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of what is going on.
That is my take away.
It was amazing how many of them were quickly running to discredit the Daily News report by Leonard yesterday (and many on BBI).
Usually, when you see that mad dash to say something isn't true, I pause and wonder because of them is lying.
Less than 24 hours later, turns out Leonard may have been correct after all.
Really?? Leonard is scum and got ran off the rangers beat for making up stories...
Snacks Harrison basically said the sight of Leonard makes him want to puke and called him out as a scrum journalist...
How does this tweet confirm leonard?
Who's confirming him? Read the last line of what you quoted. The word "may" was used.
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we are retarded...
Unless they know he has a drug problem.
I don't favor trading OBJ at all, but sometimes teams look at a guy and decide to dump him because of drugs. The Eagles dumped Chris Carter because of drugs; he got his shit together and became a Hall of Fame receiver. In baseball, the Cardinals pretty clearly dumped Keith Hernandez to the Mets (Neil Allen and Rick Ownby? Come on.) because they knew he was on cocaine. They had to deny it, because they broke baseball rules by keeping it a secret and not telling the Mets, but that's what happened.
Drug problem? This is insane.
Yes the guy who got thrown off a beat for making up stories is right...
A player said Leonard makes him want to puke, that should tell you all you need to know
^this
...for his second contract IMO.
Just last week, the Jets traded the #6 pick in the draft, TWO second rounders AND their 2019 second round pick just to move up to the #3 pick in the draft.
Is OBJ better than anyone who will be available with the #3 pick in the draft? Yes, he is.
Some will point out that he will become expensive starting next season- and the #3 overall pick won't be expensive for 3 years.
The flip side of that is no one can honestly say what the #3 pick in the draft will do- while we CAN say with some degree of certainty what OBJ will do in a season.
Thus, if people are going to casually throw around trade proposals, you need to start with real value, not some artificial restraint of "what will the other team agree to." This is a generational level WR talent- one the Giants can control without issue for the next 3 years. They do NOT have to trade him- the other team has to make the offer so good that the Giants will agree to trade him.
This won't happen because the Browns are, well, the Browns. But if you were going to make an offer that the Giants could not refuse as the Browns, you would offer the #4 pick in the draft, the two higest second rounders (#33 and 35) and next year's first rounder.
Is that a MASSIVE overpay? It sure is. But if that is your first question, then you have asked the WRONG question. The real question is whether the Giants accept the offer. Do they? Almost certainly.
The Browns are the ONLY team capable of that kind of overpay. They still get their future QB with the #1 overall pick, get possibly the best WR in the game, have a strong OL and have at least a starting level RB- and have improved their defense- and still have your 2nd, 4th and two 6th round picks left over. Alos keep in mind that no matter how good Gordon is- he is just a single drug test from being out of the league, likely for good.
Do the Browns take that risk? I doubt it. GMs by nature are conservative. BUT, if the Browns want to reverse the curse, this would be the way to get it done.
...that's just flat out absurd.
That's how you let a smart personnel guy like Gettleman build something.
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im sure they will get lots of calls. and im sure they will get lots of offers.. That completely different from actually taking one..
^this
You were completely dismissing yesterday any chance of this even being entertained.
Can't hurt to get a price check.
That's how you let a smart personnel guy like Gettleman build something.
That's how you end up with a team much worse than the one that went 3-13
I've been beating that drum. There's a big assumption on how easily OB can be replaced or how good that prospect will turn out to be while OB is a known entity. Huge gamble.
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In comment 13889734 blueblood said:
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im sure they will get lots of calls. and im sure they will get lots of offers.. That completely different from actually taking one..
^this
You were completely dismissing yesterday any chance of this even being entertained.
What has changed? Did you read rapaport tweet?
He says teams have called, but not sure if giants want to trade beckham..
Where does it say the giants are interested?
First off if teams didt call they wouldn't be doing their jobs and if gionta didn't listen they wouldn't be doing theirs
Maybe ask for either olinemen Saffold or Brown. Two solid Gs...
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and the Cleveland rumor about #2 is true, the Giants could make both trades and have #4, #24, #33, #34 picks in this draft, as well as other additional picks this year and possibly next.
That's how you let a smart personnel guy like Gettleman build something.
That's how you end up with a team much worse than the one that went 3-13
If the Giants trade Beckham I'd bet money they're better than 3-13 in 2018, and I'd double down that by the end of the season we're seeing threads here about how Gettleman was right to move him.
That's how you let a smart personnel guy like Gettleman build something.
What Cleveland rumor?
If you deal Beckham, you create a huge hole @ WR.
It is a need now, WITH Beckham on the team.
Without him, we'd need more than 1 player there. Which means we'd have to spend at least one of the picks acquired @ WR - and are far from guaranteed to get anything close to what we know we have with Beckham.
I know many people want to get rid of him, but it's very risky and it could easily make this team worse beyond the 2018-19 season.
Link - ( New Window )
Conceptually, this isn't bad.
Watch bikini models on computer.
'Oh, well, thanks for calling'
Not saying you need to like this trade, but that seems about right. OBJ is going to require a massive contract that will be tough to fit under the cap, so he's not as valuable as some people assume.
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Someone was getting sold a bill of goods yesterday. I talked with several people who said the Giants ARE shopping Beckham.
They just want more than what's being offered.
6:09 AM - 27 Mar 2018
There will be other receivers and other playmakers available through various means. They don't have to be as talented as Beckham. Shit he himself has only been on a playoff team once in four years. The rest of the NFL is building teams without him, and most of them have done a better job than we have. Why can't we build a good team without him?
At this point I'm ambivalent on the issue of trading him. What can not happen is giving him the contract he wants. Committing to him in that way...that can not happen.
This is a bad time to deal him, IMO - the value is as low as it's going to get and the return will be underwhelming. But I do believe NYG are actively shopping him.
I think Gettleman went into this thinking that as soon as another "controversy" (or whatever we'd even label this) popped up, that was it - and he was going to start shopping.
So, I think there's actually a real chance he's moved. I just hope we get a hell of a haul because if we blow the picks, we're going to be very starved for WR talent.
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In comment 13889746 Go Terps said:
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and the Cleveland rumor about #2 is true, the Giants could make both trades and have #4, #24, #33, #34 picks in this draft, as well as other additional picks this year and possibly next.
That's how you let a smart personnel guy like Gettleman build something.
That's how you end up with a team much worse than the one that went 3-13
If the Giants trade Beckham I'd bet money they're better than 3-13 in 2018, and I'd double down that by the end of the season we're seeing threads here about how Gettleman was right to move him.
And I'd bet money that if Beckham didn't get hurt 5 games into the 2017 season, they would of had a better record than 3-13 too.
And going into 2017 most people thought Ben McAdoo was a great hire.
We can make a lot of moves that insure we'll be better than 3-13, but that really isn't the goal is it? If we trade Beckham and get a few prospects that don't do jack shit and we end up 8-8 this year with young, struggling players, we're better than 3-13, but are you really going to puff your chest out on that nugget?
You absolutely believe trading Beckham for a 1st (and a 3rd) is the right move, even if that 1st pick is in the 20's. That's how much you've let emotion drive the discourse.
Like I said above, if you don't far exceed market value in a trade, it is a bad move. Period.
[quote] There will be other receivers and other playmakers available through various means. They don't have to be as talented as Beckham. [quote]
No, but they have to be better than the rest of the WR corps outside of Beckham. You're not going anywhere with Sterling Shepard as your #1. What's the plan to replace him?
The scenario where trading him makes sense is if they're going total rebuild and drafting a QB to succeed Manning in the next season or two. If you're trying to turn this thing around quickly, I don't see any avenues to replace him in the near future that have a high probability of success.
This is a bad time to deal him, IMO - the value is as low as it's going to get and the return will be underwhelming. But I do believe NYG are actively shopping him.
I think Gettleman went into this thinking that as soon as another "controversy" (or whatever we'd even label this) popped up, that was it - and he was going to start shopping.
So, I think there's actually a real chance he's moved. I just hope we get a hell of a haul because if we blow the picks, we're going to be very starved for WR talent.
Definitely truth to this. I would add though that you typically see impact WR talent come available most offseasons via free agency. Not out of the question for the Giants to go after a guy they want to fill the number 1 spot next off-season. Will it be an OBJ type player, probably not but you defintelty can get your Plaxico and Alshon Jeffrey types.
Yeah, but it's not as if those kinds of players are going to come much cheaper than Beckham will cost.
What is the thinking? That we're going to be good this year? Really?
The better view is we aren't going to be good for at least 2 years. So let's enter "the process". Let's trade assets for cap space and youth. And hopefully Jints Central can find quality college talent stitched with smart free agent acquisitions...
Translation: OBJ, your contract demands are a little lofty. Come on down buddy.
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We can build a good team without him - we can also build a good team with him.
This is a bad time to deal him, IMO - the value is as low as it's going to get and the return will be underwhelming. But I do believe NYG are actively shopping him.
I think Gettleman went into this thinking that as soon as another "controversy" (or whatever we'd even label this) popped up, that was it - and he was going to start shopping.
So, I think there's actually a real chance he's moved. I just hope we get a hell of a haul because if we blow the picks, we're going to be very starved for WR talent.
Definitely truth to this. I would add though that you typically see impact WR talent come available most offseasons via free agency. Not out of the question for the Giants to go after a guy they want to fill the number 1 spot next off-season. Will it be an OBJ type player, probably not but you defintelty can get your Plaxico and Alshon Jeffrey types.
Right, but then what happens is that if we sign a big ticket WR via FA next year or the year after, we wind up probably paying that guy something that isn't far away from what we'd be paying Beckham if we'd have just extended him now.
Given the way the cap is trending and the demand that drives prices up in free agency, WR is going to be costly no matter what unless we nail a draft pick or two.. and then those players are going to be costly when their rookie deals expire anyway.
If it turns into a game of trying to get production without committing major cap dollars, it could be a while.
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I would add though that you typically see impact WR talent come available most offseasons via free agency. Not out of the question for the Giants to go after a guy they want to fill the number 1 spot next off-season. Will it be an OBJ type player, probably not but you defintelty can get your Plaxico and Alshon Jeffrey types.
Yeah, but it's not as if those kinds of players are going to come much cheaper than Beckham will cost.
I agree, it would be costly. I'm just not sure any of this is really about money for the Giants.
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We can build a good team without him - we can also build a good team with him.
What is the thinking? That we're going to be good this year? Really?
The better view is we aren't going to be good for at least 2 years. So let's enter "the process". Let's trade assets for cap space and youth. And hopefully Jints Central can find quality college talent stitched with smart free agent acquisitions...
He's only going to be good this year?
Why does it have to be this year?
And why do we have to wait "at least" 2 years to improve when teams around the league do it in less time on a yearly basis?
If this rebuild takes much longer than 2 years, they're doing it wrong.
The Giants themselves went from 6 wins to 11 wins to 3 wins. This isn't a league where you need to spend 5-10 years building your team.
Of course the Giants can win without Beckham. But to me, if you trade Beckham, this team is officially in "tear it all down mode" which means you also need to move Eli, draft a QB at #2 and start him on opening day next year.
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In comment 13889799 arcarsenal said:
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We can build a good team without him - we can also build a good team with him.
This is a bad time to deal him, IMO - the value is as low as it's going to get and the return will be underwhelming. But I do believe NYG are actively shopping him.
I think Gettleman went into this thinking that as soon as another "controversy" (or whatever we'd even label this) popped up, that was it - and he was going to start shopping.
So, I think there's actually a real chance he's moved. I just hope we get a hell of a haul because if we blow the picks, we're going to be very starved for WR talent.
Definitely truth to this. I would add though that you typically see impact WR talent come available most offseasons via free agency. Not out of the question for the Giants to go after a guy they want to fill the number 1 spot next off-season. Will it be an OBJ type player, probably not but you defintelty can get your Plaxico and Alshon Jeffrey types.
Right, but then what happens is that if we sign a big ticket WR via FA next year or the year after, we wind up probably paying that guy something that isn't far away from what we'd be paying Beckham if we'd have just extended him now.
Given the way the cap is trending and the demand that drives prices up in free agency, WR is going to be costly no matter what unless we nail a draft pick or two.. and then those players are going to be costly when their rookie deals expire anyway.
If it turns into a game of trying to get production without committing major cap dollars, it could be a while.
You are 100% correct, the money likely isn't going to deviate much. But like I said above, if this was just about the dollars, I don't think we're even hearing about potential trades. Seems to be larger forces at play here for the Giants, right or wrong.
NYG: Ok then we will listen to trade offers
A few days, everyone settles down, they split the baby. Its how deals go.
You mean sell low. Why would his value be high coming off a season ending injury and wanting a long term deal?
I would trade him today straight up for the #4 pick. He's a pain in the ass. He's coming off injury. He's threatening to hold out. The value of a top 5 pick is enormous this year given there are multiple blue chippers, including some QBs.
Cleveland has a QB in place they can be competitive with. They just traded for his best friend. His other good friend happens to be LeBron James. He is reunited with his college positional coach. Cleveland has tons of cap space. They still sit at #1 to draft their QB of the future.
There is probably truth to the idea that NYG are selling low, but they can't go back in time to sell high. At the end of the day they are turning a 2014 12th pick into a 2018 (very strong draft class) #4 pick which is still a great ROI.
Ask Dorsey for #4 and #33 and see if he bites. If not, take the 4 and run.
Not sure if there is a better deal out there. Maybe the Rams if they give up 2018 and 2019 1st's.
NYG: Ok then we will listen to trade offers
A few days, everyone settles down, they split the baby. Its how deals go.
They arent paying him what he wants and will keep asking for. People need to prepare themselves for a trade or at minimum an ugly holdout.
Who, Tie Rod? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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OBJ: Im holding out
NYG: Ok then we will listen to trade offers
A few days, everyone settles down, they split the baby. Its how deals go.
They arent paying him what he wants and will keep asking for. People need to prepare themselves for a trade or at minimum an ugly holdout.
That's an assumption.
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We can build a good team without him - we can also build a good team with him.
What is the thinking? That we're going to be good this year? Really?
The better view is we aren't going to be good for at least 2 years. So let's enter "the process". Let's trade assets for cap space and youth. And hopefully Jints Central can find quality college talent stitched with smart free agent acquisitions...
So you would rather trade a young known talent for unproven talent?
So we should trade Collins to?
NYG: Ok then we will listen to trade offers
A few days, everyone settles down, they split the baby. Its how deals go.
Unless teams like LAR use trade offer as legal tampering. Might make OB less likely to sign long term deal because he may prefer living in LA (his off-season home) over NY. I think NYG made a mistake if that strategy if they really want to keep him long term.
Is this a joke? You're not serious, right?
I've been talking about this situation coming to a head with Beckham for two years at least, and most of the time I've been ripped to shreds on this board. I advocated trading for him a while back, because (as we all agree) his trade value was greater then than it is now. And basically I got motherfucked every time. How many times have you and others posted about how the Giants will definitely pay him, how he'll be here long term, how it's all media driven bullshit, how the very idea that they would trade him was crazy?
And all along people post bullshit like he's Jerry Rice (he isn't), attribute stats to him that he's never attained ("He's good for 100-1500-15 a year"), call him the best WR or even best offensive player in the sport (he's never even been first team All Pro). And that's not to mention all the excuses made for his behavior, and blame pointed elsewhere...we even had people analyzing his tattoos in the coke video saying it was old. It was shot three weeks ago!
Well anyway, here we are. The Giants are listening to trade offers. Something that was never going to happen.
It was always going this way with Beckham and it's been obvious for a while...if you didn't let your emotional attachment to the player blind you to it.
And why do we have to wait "at least" 2 years to improve when teams around the league do it in less time on a yearly basis?
If this rebuild takes much longer than 2 years, they're doing it wrong.
The Giants themselves went from 6 wins to 11 wins to 3 wins. This isn't a league where you need to spend 5-10 years building your team.
A couple of things. I'm very bullish on the Eagles and Boys being very good for the foreseeable future - more so with Philly. They just have better parts right now. And we have a glaring holes at the starter spots and in depth. That typically doesn't change with one draft and one free agency period. You don't think we can compete for the division - do you? And there is too much depth and quality in the NFC, especially at QB, to think a wildcard is likely. Do you think we can compete with: Rans, 9ers, Falcons, Carolina, Minnesota, Atlanta, Green Bay, etc (excluding the NFC East) for two wild card spots?
So I am writing 2018 off as - likely - more of the Eli Farewell Tour. And if we draft a QB, maybe a chance for him to get some real game reps.
He is just that valuable.
Hey Greg, who did you have in your final 4 this year buddy?
Hey Greg, who did you have in your final 4 this year buddy?
That's the best you've got, huh? At least I didn't overestimate you.
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In comment 13889848 UESBLUE said:
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OBJ: Im holding out
NYG: Ok then we will listen to trade offers
A few days, everyone settles down, they split the baby. Its how deals go.
They arent paying him what he wants and will keep asking for. People need to prepare themselves for a trade or at minimum an ugly holdout.
That's an assumption.
Correct. He is not budging for the moment off of 20m per year. Giants are not going beyond 16.5-17 unless both Mara and Gettleman cave.
On what planet is he worth 2 top 5 picks?
Not to mention it is said no one is even sure if giants are interested in trading beckham...
This could all be from one team who says yeah we called and made an offer to beckham
So you would rather trade a young known talent for unproven talent?
So we should trade Collins to?
Yes and no.
Again, I just don't think - regardless of the love affair with OBJ - it's worth spending huge dollars on WRs. You can build a larger core of quality with less dollars. And, as mentioned, we have a lot of holes to plug in the dike...Let's just cut the ties, swallow hard, and enter major rebuild phase.
I like Collins and he's not going to be the huge cap hit that OBJ would be if Jints Central signs up...
On what planet is he worth 2 top 5 picks?
I dunno. But it would be my price. And, I halfway hope that nobody would offer it. People act as if we are not only compelled to trade OBJ but we should OBO him. Neither is the case. If we kept him, we would only end up with the best WR in the NFL. Boo fricking hoo for us.
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So you would rather trade a young known talent for unproven talent?
So we should trade Collins to?
Yes and no.
Again, I just don't think - regardless of the love affair with OBJ - it's worth spending huge dollars on WRs. You can build a larger core of quality with less dollars. And, as mentioned, we have a lot of holes to plug in the dike...Let's just cut the ties, swallow hard, and enter major rebuild phase.
I like Collins and he's not going to be the huge cap hit that OBJ would be if Jints Central signs up...
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1 and 4?
On what planet is he worth 2 top 5 picks?
Earth?
I dunno. But it would be my price. And, I halfway hope that nobody would offer it. People act as if we are not only compelled to trade OBJ but we should OBO him. Neither is the case. If we kept him, we would only end up with the best WR in the NFL. Boo fricking hoo for us.
EXACTLY! I think wow it would be nice to have #1,2,4 in this years draft...we could really build this shit right...now lets say darnold at 1 busts, now we have saqoun and nelson...yea nice, but not a single #1 WR. sorry but right now OBJ>>>>>>barkley+nelson IMO. why? because he is proven!!! now cal lthe raiders and get #10, cooper and a 2019 first and that may be a diff story as #10 and the 2019 first could be used to build other areas of team
I've been talking about this situation coming to a head with Beckham for two years at least, and most of the time I've been ripped to shreds on this board. I advocated trading for him a while back, because (as we all agree) his trade value was greater then than it is now. And basically I got motherfucked every time. How many times have you and others posted about how the Giants will definitely pay him, how he'll be here long term, how it's all media driven bullshit, how the very idea that they would trade him was crazy?
Adding to what Keith said above about the scene playing out before turning into TLG, you were motherfucked and lambasted because you've thought trading the team's best player is a good idea.
I never said he'll get paid, just like I never said he'll get traded. What I've said and I stand by it today is that you don't make the team better by trading away top players, and I've always couched that with UNLESS YOU HAVE AN INSANE DEAL. Trading him for a low 1st rounder, even if you throw in a 3rd isn't an insane deal, and I'd be shocked if it happened. I'd love to have some foolish team give us a first rounder and a top player or two high first rounders, but I'd be shocked if that happened. More than likely, OBJ will get his contract here.
You just don't get it that moving on from somebody simply because you don't like him is a good move. Hell, from all the bitching you did a couple of years ago, you never really said where you's allocate $200M, especially since it is well managed under the cap, so we'd still have a shitty OL, and not have Snacks, Jackrabbit or Vernon.
And I think you just recently called Snacks our best player.......
No one will ever confuse Tisch for being the football mind in the operation. His area of expertise is the Hollywood/entertainment side of things.
Go figure.
No one will ever confuse Tisch for being the football mind in the operation. His area of expertise is the Hollywood/entertainment side of things.
Go figure.
Yeah this is unsettling.
No one will ever confuse Tisch for being the football mind in the operation. His area of expertise is the Hollywood/entertainment side of things.
Go figure.
Says the guy who wants to trade a proven NFL star straight up for a draft pick.
Trading him isnt quitting on him.
People need to stop living by these quotes as if they are among the Ten Commandments.
No one will ever confuse Tisch for being the football mind in the operation. His area of expertise is the Hollywood/entertainment side of things.
Go figure.
Tisch also had enough common sense to realize McAdoo was an inept moron and his handling of the Eli situation was the most embarrassing day in the Giants history. This was going on while Mara "wasn't in the office" to fix what everyone knew was wrong and botched. Instead of fixing it the next day when he returned, Mara didn't want to overstep his boundaries as owner of the team.
Tisch made sure McAdoo was left in Oakland, who knows what Mara would have done.
So while Mara sits there and analyzes everything and try to do whats right by the book (like not stepping on the coaches toes even though the guy was a total fool), Tisch used some common sense and got it fixed.
Just like he will with Odell, the Giants aren't trading him.
While Mara may seem like the noble stoic brains of the operation, I'm starting to wonder about him. I'm also starting to realize a 50/50 split of ownership is a good thing
I fully believe right now that this is the ploy. But its one that has a finite life to it. I think if things arent resolved in a couple weeks that a trade could happen.
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If the Giants trade Beckham I'd bet money they're better than 3-13 in 2018, and I'd double down that by the end of the season we're seeing threads here about how Gettleman was right to move him.
And going into 2017 most people thought Ben McAdoo was a great hire.
We can make a lot of moves that insure we'll be better than 3-13, but that really isn't the goal is it? If we trade Beckham and get a few prospects that don't do jack shit and we end up 8-8 this year with young, struggling players, we're better than 3-13, but are you really going to puff your chest out on that nugget?
You absolutely believe trading Beckham for a 1st (and a 3rd) is the right move, even if that 1st pick is in the 20's. That's how much you've let emotion drive the discourse.
Like I said above, if you don't far exceed market value in a trade, it is a bad move. Period.
^^^this. While I can understand if this does, in fact, happen, let's be real. OBJ is a generational talent. He's one of the best WRs this league has seen in quite some time. Easily the best WR the Giants have had in their history. The guy has been a disproportionate portion of our offense. He's young and just now entering the prime years of his career (barring injury). How do you fill that hole if you do trade him?
While Mara may seem like the noble stoic brains of the operation, I'm starting to wonder about him.
I'm surprised there isn't as much concern about Mara going into this year. I posted this on another thread, but I am concerned his reactions are becoming more knee-jerk than well thought out.
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"You don't quit on talent," Gettleman said three times during the course of a 17-minute interview at the NFL's annual meetings.
Trading him isnt quitting on him.
People need to stop living by these quotes as if they are among the Ten Commandments.
So quotes from team officials: Not trustworthy
Tweets from reporters: Trustworthy
How about we use your logic for these narrative-driven shit-stirring articles and tweets?
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In comment 13889949 christian said:
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"You don't quit on talent," Gettleman said three times during the course of a 17-minute interview at the NFL's annual meetings.
Trading him isnt quitting on him.
People need to stop living by these quotes as if they are among the Ten Commandments.
So quotes from team officials: Not trustworthy
Tweets from reporters: Trustworthy
How about we use your logic for these narrative-driven shit-stirring articles and tweets?
It goes both ways. Sure.
He also said, "Accorsi banged into my head - distractions, distractions, distractions - you can't have them..."
But one thing is what we want, and the other is what is real. Putting our faith in this guy to the tune of $18M a year is crazy. It's always been crazy.
Says the man who two years ago quit on Josh Norman once it was clear that Norman put himself above the team...
But one thing is what we want, and the other is what is real. Putting our faith in this guy to the tune of $18M a year is crazy. It's always been crazy.
But the draft pick that you trade him for, in a perfect world if its a WR that has the same skill set as Beckham, will be paid to the tune of $22-25M in 5 years after his rookie deal expires... The cap is not going to decrease..
Josh Norman is not remotely an equivalent player to Odell Beckham. Try again.
But one thing is what we want, and the other is what is real. Putting our faith in this guy to the tune of $18M a year is crazy. It's always been crazy.
I agree completely. I want Beckham to be the game changer and to cut out the BS stuff where pretending to pee on the football, propose to the goalpost and getting 15 yard penalties for dumb stuff are common occurrences..
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Says the man who two years ago quit on Josh Norman once it was clear that Norman put himself above the team...
Josh Norman is not remotely an equivalent player to Odell Beckham. Try again.
No doubt. But I was simply making the point that Gettleman, unlike Reese, will not stand for Odell's selfish bullshit and will most certainly quit on it when he has had enough...
Richardson liked Gettleman's moves to get rid of the vets, even Smith and Williams. But once it came to his personal favorites, he handed him the pink slip
Dallas got a 1st, 2nd, and a 6th in 1990
5 players, who when they were cut, were conditionally turned into a 1st and 2nd in 1991, a 2nd and 3rd in 1992 and a 1st in 1993
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The absolute minimum you accept is 2 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks, and 2 3rd round picks
Absurd. HW deal will never be repeated and HW was not coming off an injury or publicly said he wanted to be the highest paid player in the NFL. It is a salary cap league, signing OBJ to the monster deal will eventually cause a team to cut players it wants to keep.
Then Beckham doesnt get traded, end of story. Beckham is a more impactful player in 2018 than Herschel was in 1989
We're talking one WR - Beckham. And I like Engram and Shephard. I think they are on the right side of the development curve. What's wrong with them exactly? Maybe Lewis comes more into his own.
But a lot depends on what would play out in a Beckham deal, right? Maybe in a Ram deal we pry away Woods. Maybe we use an extra pick to grab a Christian Kirk, St Brown, DaeSean Hamilton, Anthony Miller type. Or a receiver gets cut after the draft and we add them. My philosophy is for receivers is the same as my view on RBs - they grow on trees. Look at the yeomen's work Shurmur did with the Vikings receivers. They are all later round picks. Maybe we trust his eye and he build a solid core...
Only if someone gives you a Herschel Walker type deal
Werent the giants losing 35 to 7 at one point?
So that drop on the first series cost them the game?
Without him they do not come back, maybe if the defense wasn't so inept the giants would have won
This is absurd on so many levels. This was one incident that happened in 2015, and has not been repeated. It also includes a ton of guesswork about how the team would have finished that year if they had won that game and the next, and also implies he dropped a TD because he lost his mind, when the TD he dropped was before anything happened. Ironically it was on that play, after he dropped the ball, that Norman slammed him to the ground and the he went off the rails.
Now please clarify how his antics since 2015 have hurt the team.
I've already have been accused of that on these boards. No skin off my back. Those are accusations by unintelligent people that can only fall back on racism to defend irrational behavior. If you acted like OBJ at your job you'd be fired. People thought when Tiki retired and we traded Shockey that we could never replace them. (2) Super Bowls later we did just fine without them. OBJ has a decision to make. Straighten up or ship out. If you ship out you may miss out on something great.
No cherry picking here. Just pick a draft that makes your point...
Is he worth 2 of these Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Joey Bosa, Ezeziel Elliot, Jalen Ramsey
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I keep reading that has his antics really haven't cost the Giants anything on the field. Seriously people. Have these antics really been harmless with no affect on the locker room or on the team? I beg to differ. Let's revisit the Carolina game in 2015. We were 6-7 and with a win we could be in a 1st place tie with Washington. Not to mention the momentum that knocking off a 13-0 team could have established. Instead this is the game OBJ decides to lose his mind. It was more just the penalties and bad behavior. He allowed Norman to get into his head and it affected his play. He dropped a perfectly thrown deep ball (Sure TD) from Eli that could have changed the outcome of the game. He was non-existent in the 1st (3) Quarters because his personal agenda was more important than the game. Only a big 4th quarter made his stat line appear presentable. He really could have had a game changing performance but his antics got in the way. Had we won that Carolina game we would have been tied for 1st place and could have won the division. Instead we were 6-8 and he was suspended the next game that we lost. What has his antics cost the team? He cost us a chance at a division title that year because of his antics. People forget that. I don't. He didn't control his emotions then and he hasn't shown anything that would suggest he's heading in the right direction now. You can't count on a guy like that. Get what you can for him now and save the cap room for guys that want to be a part of the solution not part of the problem.
This is absurd on so many levels. This was one incident that happened in 2015, and has not been repeated. It also includes a ton of guesswork about how the team would have finished that year if they had won that game and the next, and also implies he dropped a TD because he lost his mind, when the TD he dropped was before anything happened. Ironically it was on that play, after he dropped the ball, that Norman slammed him to the ground and the he went off the rails.
Now please clarify how his antics since 2015 have hurt the team.
Does everyone remember how that game started?
Oh I agree... I was just going off of Carl's dumb post cherry picking a draft to try and make a point.
He was the reason the score was as close as it was at the end - that's a fact.
Giants were getting their doors blown off in that game.
Could have changed the outcome of the game?? Beckham caught the game tying TD before the D let up yet another game losing drive.
He did have a game-changing performance!!
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I keep reading that has his antics really haven't cost the Giants anything on the field. Seriously people. Have these antics really been harmless with no affect on the locker room or on the team? I beg to differ. Let's revisit the Carolina game in 2015. We were 6-7 and with a win we could be in a 1st place tie with Washington. Not to mention the momentum that knocking off a 13-0 team could have established. Instead this is the game OBJ decides to lose his mind. It was more just the penalties and bad behavior. He allowed Norman to get into his head and it affected his play. He dropped a perfectly thrown deep ball (Sure TD) from Eli that could have changed the outcome of the game. He was non-existent in the 1st (3) Quarters because his personal agenda was more important than the game. Only a big 4th quarter made his stat line appear presentable. He really could have had a game changing performance but his antics got in the way. Had we won that Carolina game we would have been tied for 1st place and could have won the division. Instead we were 6-8 and he was suspended the next game that we lost. What has his antics cost the team? He cost us a chance at a division title that year because of his antics. People forget that. I don't. He didn't control his emotions then and he hasn't shown anything that would suggest he's heading in the right direction now. You can't count on a guy like that. Get what you can for him now and save the cap room for guys that want to be a part of the solution not part of the problem.
Werent the giants losing 35 to 7 at one point?
So that drop on the first series cost them the game?
Without him they do not come back, maybe if the defense wasn't so inept the giants would have won
We were down 35-7 mostly because our best player's head was in his own ass for the 1st 3 Quarters. The team made a come back and then finally OBJ removed his ahead from his own ass to get 75 yards and a TD in the 4th quarter. Let's not make OBJ a hero when he had a very pedestrian game with several 15 yard penalties that halted drives and a huge drop that cost us 7 points. Spoken like a truly blind OBJ supporter. Let me be very clear, in no way did OBJ single handedly bring us back into that game. Some people speak with out actually knowing the facts. Do your research before you spew nonsense.
I love his ability but he is not the best. Antonio Brown has put up huge numbers year in and year out. Julio Jones is a game changer and would be even better used with us than he is in Atlanta. Beckham is very very good but not the best in the league.
I highly doubt they trade Odell, so I don't want to go nuts about something that is not going to happen.
But if DG did trade Odell for something like the 23 rd pick as rumored, he would basically go down as the Ray Handley of GMs.
This value system doesn't work. If you or anyone else were in the top 1% of people with your skills, and you provided an inordinate amount of value to your employer, then the standards would be the different for you too.
No other fan base actively hates on their own best players.
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Is worth two top five picks (see Julio Jones trade). Oh by the way, on planet earth thats what planet.
I love his ability but he is not the best. Antonio Brown has put up huge numbers year in and year out. Julio Jones is a game changer and would be even better used with us than he is in Atlanta. Beckham is very very good but not the best in the league.
We can split hairs here but just about every person's top WR list involves those guys in the top 3 and then everybody else. Oh, and he's 4 years younger than both.
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In comment 13890005 Gmen86900711 said:
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I keep reading that has his antics really haven't cost the Giants anything on the field. Seriously people. Have these antics really been harmless with no affect on the locker room or on the team? I beg to differ. Let's revisit the Carolina game in 2015. We were 6-7 and with a win we could be in a 1st place tie with Washington. Not to mention the momentum that knocking off a 13-0 team could have established. Instead this is the game OBJ decides to lose his mind. It was more just the penalties and bad behavior. He allowed Norman to get into his head and it affected his play. He dropped a perfectly thrown deep ball (Sure TD) from Eli that could have changed the outcome of the game. He was non-existent in the 1st (3) Quarters because his personal agenda was more important than the game. Only a big 4th quarter made his stat line appear presentable. He really could have had a game changing performance but his antics got in the way. Had we won that Carolina game we would have been tied for 1st place and could have won the division. Instead we were 6-8 and he was suspended the next game that we lost. What has his antics cost the team? He cost us a chance at a division title that year because of his antics. People forget that. I don't. He didn't control his emotions then and he hasn't shown anything that would suggest he's heading in the right direction now. You can't count on a guy like that. Get what you can for him now and save the cap room for guys that want to be a part of the solution not part of the problem.
This is absurd on so many levels. This was one incident that happened in 2015, and has not been repeated. It also includes a ton of guesswork about how the team would have finished that year if they had won that game and the next, and also implies he dropped a TD because he lost his mind, when the TD he dropped was before anything happened. Ironically it was on that play, after he dropped the ball, that Norman slammed him to the ground and the he went off the rails.
Now please clarify how his antics since 2015 have hurt the team.
Not to mention we were only in that Carolina game bc of OBJ.
Does everyone remember how that game started?
Actually Eli threw a TD to Will Tye and Jennings had a long TD run to get us back in the game. It was only on the last few drives in the game that OBJ actually decided to show up. We were not in that game because of OBJ. We were in that game in spite of OBJ. Had OBJ showed up in the 1st 3 quarters we would have won the game hands down. Go on NFL.com and look up this game and watch the highlights. He was horrible. Lucky he wasn't flagged for stomping on Norman after his last TD to make it even worse. OBJ cost us this game and a chance at a Division Championship with a potential playoff run.
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In comment 13890036 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 13890005 Gmen86900711 said:
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I keep reading that has his antics really haven't cost the Giants anything on the field. Seriously people. Have these antics really been harmless with no affect on the locker room or on the team? I beg to differ. Let's revisit the Carolina game in 2015. We were 6-7 and with a win we could be in a 1st place tie with Washington. Not to mention the momentum that knocking off a 13-0 team could have established. Instead this is the game OBJ decides to lose his mind. It was more just the penalties and bad behavior. He allowed Norman to get into his head and it affected his play. He dropped a perfectly thrown deep ball (Sure TD) from Eli that could have changed the outcome of the game. He was non-existent in the 1st (3) Quarters because his personal agenda was more important than the game. Only a big 4th quarter made his stat line appear presentable. He really could have had a game changing performance but his antics got in the way. Had we won that Carolina game we would have been tied for 1st place and could have won the division. Instead we were 6-8 and he was suspended the next game that we lost. What has his antics cost the team? He cost us a chance at a division title that year because of his antics. People forget that. I don't. He didn't control his emotions then and he hasn't shown anything that would suggest he's heading in the right direction now. You can't count on a guy like that. Get what you can for him now and save the cap room for guys that want to be a part of the solution not part of the problem.
This is absurd on so many levels. This was one incident that happened in 2015, and has not been repeated. It also includes a ton of guesswork about how the team would have finished that year if they had won that game and the next, and also implies he dropped a TD because he lost his mind, when the TD he dropped was before anything happened. Ironically it was on that play, after he dropped the ball, that Norman slammed him to the ground and the he went off the rails.
Now please clarify how his antics since 2015 have hurt the team.
Not to mention we were only in that Carolina game bc of OBJ.
Does everyone remember how that game started?
Actually Eli threw a TD to Will Tye and Jennings had a long TD run to get us back in the game. It was only on the last few drives in the game that OBJ actually decided to show up. We were not in that game because of OBJ. We were in that game in spite of OBJ. Had OBJ showed up in the 1st 3 quarters we would have won the game hands down. Go on NFL.com and look up this game and watch the highlights. He was horrible. Lucky he wasn't flagged for stomping on Norman after his last TD to make it even worse. OBJ cost us this game and a chance at a Division Championship with a potential playoff run.
Are you dense? He's the only reason they were in that position to begin with. Sure, lets go with the puzzling theory that Beckham cost us a game we trailed 35-7.. that doesn't take away that no team could guard the guy. That's the reason Carolina took a fucking baseball bat onto the field. They knew the only way to beat him was to get into his head. They did. It worked.
It hasn't happened again. Sorry, but proposing to a kicking net may be just as bad in your mind, but nothing has happened on the field since that Carolina game except for TD celebrations. And players don't get traded for TD celebrations.
He had one penalty. One drop and the game-tying TD with 1:46 left.
Several 15 yard penalties!!! We actually had 7 penalties for 47 yards.
So he cost us a game he tied up?? Fucking ridiculous logic.
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I keep reading that has his antics really haven't cost the Giants anything on the field. Seriously people. Have these antics really been harmless with no affect on the locker room or on the team? I beg to differ. Let's revisit the Carolina game in 2015. We were 6-7 and with a win we could be in a 1st place tie with Washington. Not to mention the momentum that knocking off a 13-0 team could have established. Instead this is the game OBJ decides to lose his mind. It was more just the penalties and bad behavior. He allowed Norman to get into his head and it affected his play. He dropped a perfectly thrown deep ball (Sure TD) from Eli that could have changed the outcome of the game. He was non-existent in the 1st (3) Quarters because his personal agenda was more important than the game. Only a big 4th quarter made his stat line appear presentable. He really could have had a game changing performance but his antics got in the way. Had we won that Carolina game we would have been tied for 1st place and could have won the division. Instead we were 6-8 and he was suspended the next game that we lost. What has his antics cost the team? He cost us a chance at a division title that year because of his antics. People forget that. I don't. He didn't control his emotions then and he hasn't shown anything that would suggest he's heading in the right direction now. You can't count on a guy like that. Get what you can for him now and save the cap room for guys that want to be a part of the solution not part of the problem.
This is absurd on so many levels. This was one incident that happened in 2015, and has not been repeated. It also includes a ton of guesswork about how the team would have finished that year if they had won that game and the next, and also implies he dropped a TD because he lost his mind, when the TD he dropped was before anything happened. Ironically it was on that play, after he dropped the ball, that Norman slammed him to the ground and the he went off the rails.
Now please clarify how his antics since 2015 have hurt the team.
You can minimize the Carolina game all you want. What I state is true and the situations are accurate. Norman was in Beckham's head during the pre-game warm-ups. Remember the whole baseball bat thing!!!! So it started prior to the drop. OBJ's antics cost us the game and a potential run at a Division Title and playoffs. Whether you want to come to grips with that or not is up to you. Go ahead an defend his behavior. Doing so only enables future behavior like this. As far as his behavior since I have not seen any real change. He's still a hot head that can explode again at any time and possibly at a time that could again cost the Giants. I'm not one to blow the boat trip too much out of proportion but that trip did bring undue pressure for the WR's to perform in the playoff game because of the attention it created. Then the WR Core goes out and lays an egg. Coincidence? I'm not so sure. Just another bad decision by a guy that wants 20+ million a year. No thanks! If he brings his demands down then we can talk. Other than that let him be someone elses problem. We'll draft player that are dependable.
2) How is he after that injury and surgery from last year? That's the same ankle he injured during Pre-Season and then fractured in Oct.
That's certainly worked out well over the past decade worth of drafts.
2) How is he after that injury and surgery from last year? That's the same ankle he injured during Pre-Season and then fractured in Oct.
he will set the new WR market at 18-19 and that will be that. ZERO chance he gets 25 and if he asks for it, he will play on a tag for a couple years for sure....he will be the highest paid WR in the game.
In a game he scored the tying TD, he not only lost the game, but he fucked up the season too? They were 6-7 entering the game!
And how is it defending the behavior to point out that your take is completely ridiculous? And how a fan views it allows the behavior to continue? This take gets worse with each successive post.
That's par for the course for Odell lovers.
There are some apologists for OBJ on this board, but there are also some with blind hatred for the guy and it seems like you are one of them.
Totally agree. He was the 14th pick overall, and has exceeded that value. By definition, nothing less than 13th overall is acceptable. Frankly, just getting one pick really isn't good enough.... If we make a trade, they should throw an extra 3rd in there, or at least a 4th.
She also pointed out trading him goes against their moves so far, so Mara's comments seem to be a negotiating tactic to lower the price tag.
Nice intell, really good to know.
In that case, make it a top 10 ten 1rst round pick, and a 2nd min, and we may have a deal.
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In comment 13890005 Gmen86900711 said:
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I keep reading that has his antics really haven't cost the Giants anything on the field. Seriously people. Have these antics really been harmless with no affect on the locker room or on the team? I beg to differ. Let's revisit the Carolina game in 2015. We were 6-7 and with a win we could be in a 1st place tie with Washington. Not to mention the momentum that knocking off a 13-0 team could have established. Instead this is the game OBJ decides to lose his mind. It was more just the penalties and bad behavior. He allowed Norman to get into his head and it affected his play. He dropped a perfectly thrown deep ball (Sure TD) from Eli that could have changed the outcome of the game. He was non-existent in the 1st (3) Quarters because his personal agenda was more important than the game. Only a big 4th quarter made his stat line appear presentable. He really could have had a game changing performance but his antics got in the way. Had we won that Carolina game we would have been tied for 1st place and could have won the division. Instead we were 6-8 and he was suspended the next game that we lost. What has his antics cost the team? He cost us a chance at a division title that year because of his antics. People forget that. I don't. He didn't control his emotions then and he hasn't shown anything that would suggest he's heading in the right direction now. You can't count on a guy like that. Get what you can for him now and save the cap room for guys that want to be a part of the solution not part of the problem.
This is absurd on so many levels. This was one incident that happened in 2015, and has not been repeated. It also includes a ton of guesswork about how the team would have finished that year if they had won that game and the next, and also implies he dropped a TD because he lost his mind, when the TD he dropped was before anything happened. Ironically it was on that play, after he dropped the ball, that Norman slammed him to the ground and the he went off the rails.
Now please clarify how his antics since 2015 have hurt the team.
Not to mention we were only in that Carolina game bc of OBJ.
Does everyone remember how that game started?
You are delusional. OBJ was the main reason we were down 35-7. Dropped a sure TD that would have put us up 7-0. then for 3 quarters he was rendered useless because he wasn't even running routes. Instead he was wrestling with Norman and trying to take his head off. Not to mention the distraction he became to the team throughout his insane behavior. 22 yards in the 1st 3 quarters. 54 yards and a TD in the last drive. Please explain to me how OBJ kept us in a game when he played no factor in the 1st 28 points we scored. Sorry your logic is both wrong and your flat out lying to yourselves if you think he kept us in the game and has no responsibility in this loss. In the biggest game of the year he made a fool of both himself and the franchise. Not to mention he cost us the next game due to his suspension. Typical millennial crap and never taking responsibility for ones actions. Just keep making excuses for him. That will never help him make the changes in his life that he needs to make. If this was Dez Bryant you guys wouldn't be rationalizing this behavior and making excuses.
She also pointed out trading him goes against their moves so far, so Mara's comments seem to be a negotiating tactic to lower the price tag.
I think this is the right narrative.
Look at how mara handled the Cruz negotiations.
The organization doenst value WRs like they do DEs/QB/OL
I'm not even sure you have a fact correct in any of the ramblings.
She also pointed out trading him goes against their moves so far, so Mara's comments seem to be a negotiating tactic to lower the price tag.
The problem Jon is that Odell isnt going to budge and hes got more leverage on the Giants than people seem to realize. He will sit out if he has to until the last moment (detrimental more this year to the team as he can sit out longer) to get his money and force a franchise tag drama for next year where he will still sit out again until the last moment (more detrimental at this time to him).
A contract has to happen in the next few weeks or its only going to continue to be a circus drama which is fine by Odell but not for the team.
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she spoke with Mara, their want is to keep OB for the long term but the deal has to make sense. Her sense is he stays if the deal is fair, but if they get an offer they can't refuse they could pull the trigger and skip the contract battle.
She also pointed out trading him goes against their moves so far, so Mara's comments seem to be a negotiating tactic to lower the price tag.
The problem Jon is that Odell isnt going to budge and hes got more leverage on the Giants than people seem to realize. He will sit out if he has to until the last moment (detrimental more this year to the team as he can sit out longer) to get his money and force a franchise tag drama for next year where he will still sit out again until the last moment (more detrimental at this time to him).
A contract has to happen in the next few weeks or its only going to continue to be a circus drama which is fine by Odell but not for the team.
Funny the coach that met with odell a week ago seems to think he will be there in april...
Hmm who to believe your gut feeling or the coach that just talked to odell
And yet even in that game, he caught the game tying TD pass with less than 2 minutes to play.
So he was responsible for the team losing 35-7 at one point, but has no role in tying the game?
Just absolutely horrific logic.
Percy Harvin when traded, was a better then avg receiver.
Percy Harvin was no OBJ
It's going to take more than a late 1st round draft pick to get OBJ, much more.
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In comment 13890159 JonC said:
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she spoke with Mara, their want is to keep OB for the long term but the deal has to make sense. Her sense is he stays if the deal is fair, but if they get an offer they can't refuse they could pull the trigger and skip the contract battle.
She also pointed out trading him goes against their moves so far, so Mara's comments seem to be a negotiating tactic to lower the price tag.
The problem Jon is that Odell isnt going to budge and hes got more leverage on the Giants than people seem to realize. He will sit out if he has to until the last moment (detrimental more this year to the team as he can sit out longer) to get his money and force a franchise tag drama for next year where he will still sit out again until the last moment (more detrimental at this time to him).
A contract has to happen in the next few weeks or its only going to continue to be a circus drama which is fine by Odell but not for the team.
Funny the coach that met with odell a week ago seems to think he will be there in april...
Hmm who to believe your gut feeling or the coach that just talked to odell
Yes. He will show up and not participate in anything football related aside from getting a playbook. So whats your point there, champ?
The April sessions are now highly restrictive to begin with under the new NFL rules and nothing more than glorified meet ups.
I hope not.
I'm not even sure you have a fact correct in any of the ramblings.
That Gmen account is someone's burner account here to troll.
Also, re: Julio Jones. This is a constant when people are trying to knock OBJ. He's not the best, no way, AB is better, Julio is better. Forget that at worst, he's the 3rd best WR in football, but of course those guys are better. The point is to score TD's. Odell scores about 13 per season, Julio about 6. Ohhhh, Atlanta is using him right. The Giants would use him better. Seriously? He plays in a dome with a star QB, how are they misusing him? Some of this shit is just nuts. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.
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Nelson at #2 to Giants now.
I hope not.
Why not? Probably the best OL I have seen in a long time. I honestly think he could play RT if not LT although less likely. You see what Novell got in Free Agency and you can see that OGs are even more valuable than ever. He is going to be amazing. If you want to talk about taking a HoF player he is IMO easily the most likely to be one as a guard.
And yet even in that game, he caught the game tying TD pass with less than 2 minutes to play.
So he was responsible for the team losing 35-7 at one point, but has no role in tying the game?
Just absolutely horrific logic.
What is so hard to understand. Had OBJ played the game minus his antics for the 1st 3 quarters we win this game easily. Stars dont get baited by trashtalk. Stars recognize trash talk for what it is and ignore it, play their game. They let their play do the talking. Not wrestle and fight for 3 quarters. It surprises me that anyone could possibly have watched that game and then turn around and defend him. Carl Banks was commentating that game. He wanted Beckham pulled from the game because he felt his behavior was hurting the team. But you obviously no more than a Banks who has many years of NFL playing experience.
Fucking ponderous.
At least he wouldnt be kneeling....
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doubt Beckham lost his head in the Carolina game. Was baited into a lot of foolishness.
And yet even in that game, he caught the game tying TD pass with less than 2 minutes to play.
So he was responsible for the team losing 35-7 at one point, but has no role in tying the game?
Just absolutely horrific logic.
What is so hard to understand. Had OBJ played the game minus his antics for the 1st 3 quarters we win this game easily. Stars dont get baited by trashtalk. Stars recognize trash talk for what it is and ignore it, play their game. They let their play do the talking. Not wrestle and fight for 3 quarters. It surprises me that anyone could possibly have watched that game and then turn around and defend him. Carl Banks was commentating that game. He wanted Beckham pulled from the game because he felt his behavior was hurting the team. But you obviously no more than a Banks who has many years of NFL playing experience.
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Let's not make OBJ a hero when he had a very pedestrian game with several 15 yard penalties that halted drives and a huge drop that cost us 7 points.
He had one penalty. One drop and the game-tying TD with 1:46 left.
Several 15 yard penalties!!! We actually had 7 penalties for 47 yards.
So he cost us a game he tied up?? Fucking ridiculous logic.
OBJ could have easily been called for 3 or 4 unsportsmanlike penalties in that game. That being said OBJ scoring the last td doesnt erase the rest his behavior that obvious hurt this teams performance. In OBJs 2 most important career games he had the Carolina debacle with playoffs on the line and was out produced by King,Tye, Shepard, and Cruz in the Green Bay game. 4 catches for 24 yards and several big drops. Yes lets pay a guy that comes up small in big games 20+ Milton dollars a year. No thx!!!!
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everything from the Carolina game being the "biggest game of the year" and that Beckham cost us a chance at a divisonal title and playoff berth and that he had multiple 15 yard penalties. And that he did absolutely nothing until a 4th quarter (presumably to mute the point that Beckham tied the fucking game)
I'm not even sure you have a fact correct in any of the ramblings.
That Gmen account is someone's burner account here to troll.
Still havent figured out what you offer to this message board except insults. You obviously cant discuss football so you result to insults to entertain youself. What a pathetic life. I actually feel sorry for you.
Fucking ponderous.
Dude...this is going to come off mean- but you should take a small break from BBI man.
I mean we really have no love for each other but you take BBI a little to serious in your life and it's a little worrisome. What's the longest that you have been able to go without checking this site?
I'm actually being serious I've seen you on these Beckham threads and it's kind of bizarre how obsessive you are about being part of the conversation.
I know it's unsolicited advice but just think about it?
How to break an addiction to a website. - ( New Window )
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a game easily in a contest we trailed 35-7??
Fucking ponderous.
Dude...this is going to come off mean- but you should take a small break from BBI man.
I mean we really have no love for each other but you take BBI a little to serious in your life and it's a little worrisome. What's the longest that you have been able to go without checking this site?
I'm actually being serious I've seen you on these Beckham threads and it's kind of bizarre how obsessive you are about being part of the conversation.
I know it's unsolicited advice but just think about it? How to break an addiction to a website. - ( New Window )
Hahaha... I am sure he is ok. He knows more than most on this site and people that say stupid stuff and get called out on it isn't some obsessive behavior. Many people are on this site talking and discussing and a major rumor he shouldn't be talking about it. Maybe you should take a step back and take a small break from BBI if you can't understand it. I know this is unsolicited advice but just think about it.
some dumb link to seem cool - ( New Window )
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In comment 13890163 JonC said:
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Nelson at #2 to Giants now.
I hope not.
Why not? Probably the best OL I have seen in a long time. I honestly think he could play RT if not LT although less likely. You see what Novell got in Free Agency and you can see that OGs are even more valuable than ever. He is going to be amazing. If you want to talk about taking a HoF player he is IMO easily the most likely to be one as a guard.
Rather select Barkley over an OG at #2. I'm thinking a trade back with the Browns are Denver picks up an extra pick and you could still get Nelson.
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In comment 13890192 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 13890163 JonC said:
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Nelson at #2 to Giants now.
I hope not.
Why not? Probably the best OL I have seen in a long time. I honestly think he could play RT if not LT although less likely. You see what Novell got in Free Agency and you can see that OGs are even more valuable than ever. He is going to be amazing. If you want to talk about taking a HoF player he is IMO easily the most likely to be one as a guard.
Rather select Barkley over an OG at #2. I'm thinking a trade back with the Browns are Denver picks up an extra pick and you could still get Nelson.
I mean you look at the life of a RB compare to the life of an OG. You want a 10-15 year stud you take the Guard and if you want a 6-10 year stud you take the RB. Also saying that what makes Nelson so amazing is he is very good in pass blocking as well as amazing at run blocking. One thing we all know is you give Eli time and he is deadly. You don't and he gets reckless. Tons of RBs in this draft also. I would be happy with both but if it were me I would take Nelson over Barkley. I would be happy to trade down to 4th or 5th also and get either also.
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In comment 13890208 Amtoft said:
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In comment 13890192 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 13890163 JonC said:
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Nelson at #2 to Giants now.
I hope not.
Why not? Probably the best OL I have seen in a long time. I honestly think he could play RT if not LT although less likely. You see what Novell got in Free Agency and you can see that OGs are even more valuable than ever. He is going to be amazing. If you want to talk about taking a HoF player he is IMO easily the most likely to be one as a guard.
Rather select Barkley over an OG at #2. I'm thinking a trade back with the Browns are Denver picks up an extra pick and you could still get Nelson.
I mean you look at the life of a RB compare to the life of an OG. You want a 10-15 year stud you take the Guard and if you want a 6-10 year stud you take the RB. Also saying that what makes Nelson so amazing is he is very good in pass blocking as well as amazing at run blocking. One thing we all know is you give Eli time and he is deadly. You don't and he gets reckless. Tons of RBs in this draft also. I would be happy with both but if it were me I would take Nelson over Barkley. I would be happy to trade down to 4th or 5th also and get either also.
You'd also be giving Eli an elite option in Barkley whether running the ball or catching passes out of the backfield in which he wouldn't need that much time in the pocket. I'm all for Nelson, just not at 2.
Is it that hard to understand that a game we lost by a last second fg could have had a different result if our so called best player had actually participated in the game for the 1st 3 quarters? Imagine for a moment that said player actually catches the long bomb that Eli dropped right into his bread basket. Thats 7 more points. Does that not make the game more winnable? If Im not mistaken scoring more points is how you win the game. Its football 101. Its the basics. No your right OBJs poor play and his bad behavior had no bearing on the outcome of that game. Is that what you want to hear? Im not going to apologize for my opinion. This guy is delusional and so are his defenders. Guy thinks hes worth 20 plus million a year. Mind you in the last year he was a complete no show in a playoff game and he got injured twice and missed most of the year. Add to that video with him and possibly weed and cocaine. Yeah thats real reassuring behavior from your star player that is asking for a long term contract. Those things normally dont translate into QB money for a WR in the real world. But maybe in the alternate OBJ world that you guys live in this makes sense. None of us would be having this conversation if OBJ was reasonable in his salary demands and he could actually stay out of the news for 5 minutes.
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In comment 13890261 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 13890208 Amtoft said:
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In comment 13890192 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 13890163 JonC said:
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Nelson at #2 to Giants now.
I hope not.
Why not? Probably the best OL I have seen in a long time. I honestly think he could play RT if not LT although less likely. You see what Novell got in Free Agency and you can see that OGs are even more valuable than ever. He is going to be amazing. If you want to talk about taking a HoF player he is IMO easily the most likely to be one as a guard.
Rather select Barkley over an OG at #2. I'm thinking a trade back with the Browns are Denver picks up an extra pick and you could still get Nelson.
I mean you look at the life of a RB compare to the life of an OG. You want a 10-15 year stud you take the Guard and if you want a 6-10 year stud you take the RB. Also saying that what makes Nelson so amazing is he is very good in pass blocking as well as amazing at run blocking. One thing we all know is you give Eli time and he is deadly. You don't and he gets reckless. Tons of RBs in this draft also. I would be happy with both but if it were me I would take Nelson over Barkley. I would be happy to trade down to 4th or 5th also and get either also.
You'd also be giving Eli an elite option in Barkley whether running the ball or catching passes out of the backfield in which he wouldn't need that much time in the pocket. I'm all for Nelson, just not at 2.
He has had that in Vereen and it hasn't helped much because you need time to throw. If you don't, especially Eli, then you will have issues. Normally a OG at #2 I would be like no way, but he is special. As I said though I would be happy with Barkley as well. I would be fine with Chubb also. A lot of talent as positions of need.
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is a game we gave up 38 points to a 13-0 team when we were 6-7... the reason we lost is because a WR was upset for the first 3 quarters of the game where we gave up 35 points.
Is it that hard to understand that a game we lost by a last second fg could have had a different result if our so called best player had actually participated in the game for the 1st 3 quarters? Imagine for a moment that said player actually catches the long bomb that Eli dropped right into his bread basket. Thats 7 more points. Does that not make the game more winnable? If Im not mistaken scoring more points is how you win the game. Its football 101. Its the basics. No your right OBJs poor play and his bad behavior had no bearing on the outcome of that game. Is that what you want to hear? Im not going to apologize for my opinion. This guy is delusional and so are his defenders. Guy thinks hes worth 20 plus million a year. Mind you in the last year he was a complete no show in a playoff game and he got injured twice and missed most of the year. Add to that video with him and possibly weed and cocaine. Yeah thats real reassuring behavior from your star player that is asking for a long term contract. Those things normally dont translate into QB money for a WR in the real world. But maybe in the alternate OBJ world that you guys live in this makes sense. None of us would be having this conversation if OBJ was reasonable in his salary demands and he could actually stay out of the news for 5 minutes.
You are making really big assumptions though. Don't you think if the score wasn't 35-7, but closer that Carolina would have tried harder to continue to score? They went into a prevent clock killing offense and if the score was closer throughout the game maybe they score 50 on us.
Doesn't the leaked comment about holding out coming right after Mara spoke foreshadow his stance going forward? That's what's relevant .
As an aside,this isn't going to end anytime soon. It's fascinating, nay, high drama. People would watch it if a cheesy movie were made for netflix. It's a netflix movie.
If this isn't popcorn worthy when there's nothing else going on offseason. We are and have been kinda the center of the NFL universe, as much as anything else the last few weeks. I have never as many Giants segments on sports programming as i have recently.It's entertainemtn. I ;ove the fact mara shoots his mnouth off. Beckham does stuff. I like the fact the owner let's me, the fan, see what his attitude is.and I accept it as fact Mara exerts his public influence, including even over my opinion, to serve the intrests of what he sees as the teams interest, financially and otherwise. And that's cool. Just like it's cool if beckham holds out. Guy has to look after his interests, and if he sets foot on a field without a contract, he's an idiot. I say that Even if I don't like the headache and negative influence he is on the Franchise.He's already seen what can happen,and he has to look out after his own interests.
This could go on for quite some time, but Beckhams value won't be worth as much to the Giants, or possibly anyone else, as of right now, if he doesn't play until week 11 and has a so-so year, or even just a good few games. What else is he going to get in, really? we could be hear this time next year talking about Beckhams franchise tag, and having the exact same conversation, and nothing having happened in the interim, contract wise, unless they tag him.
Both sides have, and serve, their own interests. I don't even have to pick a side, it's quite entertaining. Popcorn tastes great. Munch Munch crunch crunch. mm..mmmm..mm
Receiver was upset? That is the understatement of the year. All credibility you think you had was just lost. Wow. OBJ lost his mind in that game. He was out of control. I was embarrassed as a Giants fan. Way to normalize his behavior.
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In comment 13890240 Amtoft said:
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is a game we gave up 38 points to a 13-0 team when we were 6-7... the reason we lost is because a WR was upset for the first 3 quarters of the game where we gave up 35 points.
Is it that hard to understand that a game we lost by a last second fg could have had a different result if our so called best player had actually participated in the game for the 1st 3 quarters? Imagine for a moment that said player actually catches the long bomb that Eli dropped right into his bread basket. Thats 7 more points. Does that not make the game more winnable? If Im not mistaken scoring more points is how you win the game. Its football 101. Its the basics. No your right OBJs poor play and his bad behavior had no bearing on the outcome of that game. Is that what you want to hear? Im not going to apologize for my opinion. This guy is delusional and so are his defenders. Guy thinks hes worth 20 plus million a year. Mind you in the last year he was a complete no show in a playoff game and he got injured twice and missed most of the year. Add to that video with him and possibly weed and cocaine. Yeah thats real reassuring behavior from your star player that is asking for a long term contract. Those things normally dont translate into QB money for a WR in the real world. But maybe in the alternate OBJ world that you guys live in this makes sense. None of us would be having this conversation if OBJ was reasonable in his salary demands and he could actually stay out of the news for 5 minutes.
You are making really big assumptions though. Don't you think if the score wasn't 35-7, but closer that Carolina would have tried harder to continue to score? They went into a prevent clock killing offense and if the score was closer throughout the game maybe they score 50 on us.
I think its a bigger assumption to assume that Carolina stopped trying to score.
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In comment 13890263 Amtoft said:
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In comment 13890261 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 13890208 Amtoft said:
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In comment 13890192 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 13890163 JonC said:
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Nelson at #2 to Giants now.
I hope not.
Why not? Probably the best OL I have seen in a long time. I honestly think he could play RT if not LT although less likely. You see what Novell got in Free Agency and you can see that OGs are even more valuable than ever. He is going to be amazing. If you want to talk about taking a HoF player he is IMO easily the most likely to be one as a guard.
Rather select Barkley over an OG at #2. I'm thinking a trade back with the Browns are Denver picks up an extra pick and you could still get Nelson.
I mean you look at the life of a RB compare to the life of an OG. You want a 10-15 year stud you take the Guard and if you want a 6-10 year stud you take the RB. Also saying that what makes Nelson so amazing is he is very good in pass blocking as well as amazing at run blocking. One thing we all know is you give Eli time and he is deadly. You don't and he gets reckless. Tons of RBs in this draft also. I would be happy with both but if it were me I would take Nelson over Barkley. I would be happy to trade down to 4th or 5th also and get either also.
You'd also be giving Eli an elite option in Barkley whether running the ball or catching passes out of the backfield in which he wouldn't need that much time in the pocket. I'm all for Nelson, just not at 2.
He has had that in Vereen and it hasn't helped much because you need time to throw. If you don't, especially Eli, then you will have issues. Normally a OG at #2 I would be like no way, but he is special. As I said though I would be happy with Barkley as well. I would be fine with Chubb also. A lot of talent as positions of need.
Barkley as Shurmur has said from watching his tape is also an excellent blocker. I think Barkley's impact would be much greater than Vereen, because he's more or a threat running or receiving. A agree a lot of options.
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In comment 13890177 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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everything from the Carolina game being the "biggest game of the year" and that Beckham cost us a chance at a divisonal title and playoff berth and that he had multiple 15 yard penalties. And that he did absolutely nothing until a 4th quarter (presumably to mute the point that Beckham tied the fucking game)
I'm not even sure you have a fact correct in any of the ramblings.
That Gmen account is someone's burner account here to troll.
Still havent figured out what you offer to this message board except insults. You obviously cant discuss football so you result to insults to entertain youself. What a pathetic life. I actually feel sorry for you.
You registered in March and all you do is twist people's words and then play dumb. Just calling a spade a spade
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In comment 13890263 Amtoft said:
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In comment 13890261 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 13890208 Amtoft said:
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In comment 13890192 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 13890163 JonC said:
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Nelson at #2 to Giants now.
I hope not.
Why not? Probably the best OL I have seen in a long time. I honestly think he could play RT if not LT although less likely. You see what Novell got in Free Agency and you can see that OGs are even more valuable than ever. He is going to be amazing. If you want to talk about taking a HoF player he is IMO easily the most likely to be one as a guard.
Rather select Barkley over an OG at #2. I'm thinking a trade back with the Browns are Denver picks up an extra pick and you could still get Nelson.
I mean you look at the life of a RB compare to the life of an OG. You want a 10-15 year stud you take the Guard and if you want a 6-10 year stud you take the RB. Also saying that what makes Nelson so amazing is he is very good in pass blocking as well as amazing at run blocking. One thing we all know is you give Eli time and he is deadly. You don't and he gets reckless. Tons of RBs in this draft also. I would be happy with both but if it were me I would take Nelson over Barkley. I would be happy to trade down to 4th or 5th also and get either also.
You'd also be giving Eli an elite option in Barkley whether running the ball or catching passes out of the backfield in which he wouldn't need that much time in the pocket. I'm all for Nelson, just not at 2.
He has had that in Vereen and it hasn't helped much because you need time to throw. If you don't, especially Eli, then you will have issues. Normally a OG at #2 I would be like no way, but he is special. As I said though I would be happy with Barkley as well. I would be fine with Chubb also. A lot of talent as positions of need.
Barkley as Shurmur has said from watching his tape is also an excellent blocker. I think Barkley's impact would be much greater than Vereen, because he's more or a threat running or receiving. A agree a lot of options.
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In comment 13890201 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 13890177 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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everything from the Carolina game being the "biggest game of the year" and that Beckham cost us a chance at a divisonal title and playoff berth and that he had multiple 15 yard penalties. And that he did absolutely nothing until a 4th quarter (presumably to mute the point that Beckham tied the fucking game)
I'm not even sure you have a fact correct in any of the ramblings.
That Gmen account is someone's burner account here to troll.
Still havent figured out what you offer to this message board except insults. You obviously cant discuss football so you result to insults to entertain youself. What a pathetic life. I actually feel sorry for you.
You registered in March and all you do is twist people's words and then play dumb. Just calling a spade a spade
I have not twisted words. Simple solution. Dont reply to my posts. Joining in March is a problem? What is this hazing? Your pathetic.
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In comment 13890243 Gmen86900711 said:
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In comment 13890201 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 13890177 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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everything from the Carolina game being the "biggest game of the year" and that Beckham cost us a chance at a divisonal title and playoff berth and that he had multiple 15 yard penalties. And that he did absolutely nothing until a 4th quarter (presumably to mute the point that Beckham tied the fucking game)
I'm not even sure you have a fact correct in any of the ramblings.
That Gmen account is someone's burner account here to troll.
Still havent figured out what you offer to this message board except insults. You obviously cant discuss football so you result to insults to entertain youself. What a pathetic life. I actually feel sorry for you.
You registered in March and all you do is twist people's words and then play dumb. Just calling a spade a spade
I have not twisted words. Simple solution. Dont reply to my posts. Joining in March is a problem? What is this hazing? Your pathetic.
It's actually you're.
WKYC Could Cleveland Overwhelm the Giants - ( New Window )
Id love to see OBJ and 2nd pick for 1and 4. Darnold and Barkley/Nelson/Chubb would be a win now/win later scenario.
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link WKYC Could Cleveland Overwhelm the Giants - ( New Window )
Id love to see OBJ and 2nd pick for 1and 4. Darnold and Barkley/Nelson/Chubb would be a win now/win later scenario.
thats a HORRIBLE trade IMO. i would want more than #4 and a swap of 1 and 2. OBJ is a proven talent...nobody in the draft is that
Agreed, just said it another thread, this place is becoming ridiculous. You really have to skim through threads to see actual football talk. Problem is the draft is still a month away...
Nice to meet you too. Its a wonder that anyone new ever wants to come on these boards. There are a lot of people on here with no manners and are down right disrespectful.
If I were the Giants Id do this because that means wed have the 1st 2 picks. Browns will never make that trade because they would want a guarantee that they get their guy with the 2nd pick. He may not be there at 4.
That offer that people are talking about from LA is ridiculous to me. 23RD overall and a 3rd rounder. Who are you going to pick at 23 overall that is going to have the impact that Beckham has. That is laughable to me.
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Straight up
If I were the Giants Id do this because that means wed have the 1st 2 picks. Browns will never make that trade because they would want a guarantee that they get their guy with the 2nd pick. He may not be there at 4.
Clarification: Aaron Darnold
Draft Darnold & Barkley.
That offer that people are talking about from LA is ridiculous to me. 23RD overall and a 3rd rounder. Who are you going to pick at 23 overall that is going to have the impact that Beckham has. That is laughable to me.
Agreed must be a higher pick. Must be top 10 to consider a trade.
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In comment 13890319 Gothamist said:
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link WKYC Could Cleveland Overwhelm the Giants - ( New Window )
Id love to see OBJ and 2nd pick for 1and 4. Darnold and Barkley/Nelson/Chubb would be a win now/win later scenario.
thats a HORRIBLE trade IMO. i would want more than #4 and a swap of 1 and 2. OBJ is a proven talent...nobody in the draft is that
OBJ returning to his old form is not a guarantee either. Also the rookie contracts will save us a ton of money in comparison to signing OBJ. Think this is a pretty fair trade. Consider the fact that you can turn the money you saved by not signing OBJ on proven FAs as well.
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would be a top 5 pick and a 2nd rounder, or 2 1st rounders and a 3rd rounder.
That offer that people are talking about from LA is ridiculous to me. 23RD overall and a 3rd rounder. Who are you going to pick at 23 overall that is going to have the impact that Beckham has. That is laughable to me.
Agreed must be a higher pick. Must be top 10 to consider a trade.
Besides the fact it has to be more than just one 1st rd pick. :)
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In comment 13890376 Breeze_94 said:
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would be a top 5 pick and a 2nd rounder, or 2 1st rounders and a 3rd rounder.
That offer that people are talking about from LA is ridiculous to me. 23RD overall and a 3rd rounder. Who are you going to pick at 23 overall that is going to have the impact that Beckham has. That is laughable to me.
Agreed must be a higher pick. Must be top 10 to consider a trade.
Besides the fact it has to be more than just one 1st rd pick. :)
Yes top ten this year plus 2018 2nd or 2019 1st.
Also, re: Julio Jones. This is a constant when people are trying to knock OBJ. He's not the best, no way, AB is better, Julio is better. Forget that at worst, he's the 3rd best WR in football, but of course those guys are better. The point is to score TD's. Odell scores about 13 per season, Julio about 6. Ohhhh, Atlanta is using him right. The Giants would use him better. Seriously? He plays in a dome with a star QB, how are they misusing him? Some of this shit is just nuts. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.
You lost me at Atlanta having a star QB.
The Browns fans tweeting are fk'n clueless. ODB is going to cost Cleveland more than what they are dreaming.
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link WKYC Could Cleveland Overwhelm the Giants - ( New Window )
The Browns fans tweeting are fk'n clueless. ODB is going to cost Cleveland more than what they are dreaming.
What are they saying?
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In comment 13890319 Gothamist said:
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link WKYC Could Cleveland Overwhelm the Giants - ( New Window )
The Browns fans tweeting are fk'n clueless. ODB is going to cost Cleveland more than what they are dreaming.
What are they saying?
See attached link
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13890433 Boy Cord said:
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In comment 13890319 Gothamist said:
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link WKYC Could Cleveland Overwhelm the Giants - ( New Window )
The Browns fans tweeting are fk'n clueless. ODB is going to cost Cleveland more than what they are dreaming.
What are they saying?
See attached link Link - ( New Window )
That Edwards guy is insane. OBJ and 2nd pick for the 1st. Yeah ok!
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Now OBJ is considered a detriment that cost us a chance at a title game. Forget that he was by far our best player who carried the offense single handedly. Somehow he fucking cost us. I just can't wrap my head around the hatred for this kid. He's done some selfish things, but they don't cancel out the best start to a career for any WR in history(or on par with Moss). Its fuckin insane.
Also, re: Julio Jones. This is a constant when people are trying to knock OBJ. He's not the best, no way, AB is better, Julio is better. Forget that at worst, he's the 3rd best WR in football, but of course those guys are better. The point is to score TD's. Odell scores about 13 per season, Julio about 6. Ohhhh, Atlanta is using him right. The Giants would use him better. Seriously? He plays in a dome with a star QB, how are they misusing him? Some of this shit is just nuts. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.
You lost me at Atlanta having a star QB.
We'd be lucky if our next QB put up the numbers that Matt Ryan has.
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In comment 13890202 Keith said:
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Now OBJ is considered a detriment that cost us a chance at a title game. Forget that he was by far our best player who carried the offense single handedly. Somehow he fucking cost us. I just can't wrap my head around the hatred for this kid. He's done some selfish things, but they don't cancel out the best start to a career for any WR in history(or on par with Moss). Its fuckin insane.
Also, re: Julio Jones. This is a constant when people are trying to knock OBJ. He's not the best, no way, AB is better, Julio is better. Forget that at worst, he's the 3rd best WR in football, but of course those guys are better. The point is to score TD's. Odell scores about 13 per season, Julio about 6. Ohhhh, Atlanta is using him right. The Giants would use him better. Seriously? He plays in a dome with a star QB, how are they misusing him? Some of this shit is just nuts. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.
You lost me at Atlanta having a star QB.
We'd be lucky if our next QB put up the numbers that Matt Ryan has.
Im pretty sure most people would agree with you and consider Ryan a Star QB. He a defensive meltdown from having a ring as well.
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In comment 13890439 Gmen86900711 said:
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In comment 13890433 Boy Cord said:
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In comment 13890319 Gothamist said:
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link WKYC Could Cleveland Overwhelm the Giants - ( New Window )
The Browns fans tweeting are fk'n clueless. ODB is going to cost Cleveland more than what they are dreaming.
What are they saying?
See attached link Link - ( New Window )
That Edwards guy is insane. OBJ and 2nd pick for the 1st. Yeah ok!
yea saw that lol...fucking whack job
b) A #1 and #2 this year and #1 next year
c) lifetime supply of Klondike bars
DG to Option B but is keeps repeating in his head, over and over again...
"What would you do for a Klondike Bar?"
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In comment 13890202 Keith said:
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Now OBJ is considered a detriment that cost us a chance at a title game. Forget that he was by far our best player who carried the offense single handedly. Somehow he fucking cost us. I just can't wrap my head around the hatred for this kid. He's done some selfish things, but they don't cancel out the best start to a career for any WR in history(or on par with Moss). Its fuckin insane.
Also, re: Julio Jones. This is a constant when people are trying to knock OBJ. He's not the best, no way, AB is better, Julio is better. Forget that at worst, he's the 3rd best WR in football, but of course those guys are better. The point is to score TD's. Odell scores about 13 per season, Julio about 6. Ohhhh, Atlanta is using him right. The Giants would use him better. Seriously? He plays in a dome with a star QB, how are they misusing him? Some of this shit is just nuts. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.
You lost me at Atlanta having a star QB.
We'd be lucky if our next QB put up the numbers that Matt Ryan has.
The falcons have bent over backwards to surround Ryan with elite talent since the day he was drafted.
Matt Ryan is the mediocre chick who tries to look like a 10 behind a pound of makeup, spray tan, and designer clothes.
If hes the franchise QB, and Shurmur agrees, you pull the trigger on #1 + 4.
The Giants are sold on Davis Webb so no need to go QB. The Giants draft their two highest rated players Barkley at 1 and Nelson at 4. At 33 Giants take D.J. Moore at 34 we take Carlton Davis for the secondary.
We get the drafts two elite. HoF level players that also help each on the offensive side of the ball. Imagine seeing Nelson pave the way for Barkley for at least 7 seasons. Then we get two solid, maybe even dynamic, pieces in Davis and Moore. Moore compares to Shurmurs former #1 WR Diggs.
The Giants are sold on Davis Webb so no need to go QB. The Giants draft their two highest rated players Barkley at 1 and Nelson at 4. At 33 Giants take D.J. Moore at 34 we take Carlton Davis for the secondary.
We get the drafts two elite. HoF level players that also help each on the offensive side of the ball. Imagine seeing Nelson pave the way for Barkley for at least 7 seasons. Then we get two solid, maybe even dynamic, pieces in Davis and Moore. Moore compares to Shurmurs former #1 WR Diggs.
I like it. Make it happen Gettleman!
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link WKYC Could Cleveland Overwhelm the Giants - ( New Window )
Id love to see OBJ and 2nd pick for 1and 4. Darnold and Barkley/Nelson/Chubb would be a win now/win later scenario.
Not me.
From the Rams I would accept the #23 overall, Cooper Kupp, and one or two of their five 6th round picks. It may sound like too little in return, but I doubt the Rams go for it. Kupp is sneaky valuable. Compared to the $80M-100M deal that OBJ will require, Kupp has three years left on his rookie contract. And he's already a plus player.
From the Browns I would be content with just their #4 overall and a flip flop of the #1 and #2 picks. I would then select Rosen with the #1 overall pick and trade Ereck Flowers and the #4 overall to Buffalo for the #12 and #22 picks in the first round this year and a 2nd round pick next year. Flowers has been compared to Cordy Glenn in the past, so the Bills may value him as a replacement.
He works extremely hard and has amazing talent.
He was well liked in the locker room. But the locker room was a problem for this team. He was well liked in a crappy locker room, a losing locker room. So I am discarding locker room presence as a plus for him.
I dont like his on field or off field shenanigans. Im in my mid 50s. I think his behavior is low class garbage. The key for me here is that Ive given up on the notion that he will change. Expecting him to grow out of it is wishful thinking. It cant be expected.
His cap hit is going to be huge. Im not thrilled with locking up that kind of money with someone whose behavior is garbage.
Now I can see that the Giants can win without him. The QB needs someone to throw to, so that has to be addressed. With a fair trade for Beckham, we should be able to get a few good players.
So, if he is traded, Im okay with it. We can win without him. Im sure he will continue to be a great player. But I just want another Super Bowl. We can get there without Beckham.
I know a lot of this is a reflection of my age. I get it.
Make the deal DG, and get of my lawn you punks.
I said it from day one of his diva tendencies amongst my peers that it is very hard to win a team game w a player like this hijacking an offense and team w tantrums and off field stupidity. . I think it will only get worse before better.
That being said, the optimist homer in me is really wishing he gets one more chanc, .He doesnt hold out and he has a great team-first year.
He works extremely hard and has amazing talent.
He was well liked in the locker room. But the locker room was a problem for this team. He was well liked in a crappy locker room, a losing locker room. So I am discarding locker room presence as a plus for him.
I dont like his on field or off field shenanigans. Im in my mid 50s. I think his behavior is low class garbage. The key for me here is that Ive given up on the notion that he will change. Expecting him to grow out of it is wishful thinking. It cant be expected.
His cap hit is going to be huge. Im not thrilled with locking up that kind of money with someone whose behavior is garbage.
Now I can see that the Giants can win without him. The QB needs someone to throw to, so that has to be addressed. With a fair trade for Beckham, we should be able to get a few good players.
Absolutely great comment. Its not a reflection of age as I am in a different age bracket. I think its a reflection of common sense and evidence based data on these diva types and their effect on winning cultures.
I feel the same way
I don't understand why we're assuming this is going to be the case. Just because he said it doesn't make it any more realistic. He's not getting that anywhere. Nobody anywhere at that position makes anything like that. The closest thing is Mike Evans and his contract has one single season above 16m on a 5-year contract.
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Compared to the $80M-100M deal that OBJ will require
I don't understand why we're assuming this is going to be the case. Just because he said it doesn't make it any more realistic. He's not getting that anywhere. Nobody anywhere at that position makes anything like that. The closest thing is Mike Evans and his contract has one single season above 16m on a 5-year contract.
Antonio Brown's extension gives him $81.6M over 5 years.
And Evans' deal is for 5 years and $82.5M. Combine that with what he had remaining on his current deal and he's set to earn $95.7M over 6 years with cap hits of: $18.2M, $20M, $16.75M, $12.25M, $14M, and $14.5M (though don't be surprised if his $20M in gtd base for 2019 is converted to a bonus and prorated).
The Evans deal is the floor for what Beckham will get. I'd expect an "extension" for 5 years/$85-90M with ~$60M in guarantees when all is said and done. Add that to his current deal and the total will probably be 6 years, ~$100M. Hopefully they add in some incentives for finishing the year with 0 personal fouls/unsportmanlike penalties.
Throw in Cooper Kupp it is.
The Evans deal is the floor for what Beckham will get. I'd expect an "extension" for 5 years/$85-90M with ~$60M in guarantees when all is said and done. Add that to his current deal and the total will probably be 6 years, ~$100M. Hopefully they add in some incentives for finishing the year with 0 personal fouls/unsportmanlike penalties.
That jump from 85-90 to 100 is the fuzzy math part. He'd be able to claim he "got" $100m but it's really more like 90. And then it becomes a much simpler issue. Because he's certainly worth 5-7m more than Mike Evans.
Odell is Odell and always will be. And he (and his agent) are using the only chip he has to play.
Agreed, the only team that makes sense to me in as a trade partner is Cleveland.
Set aside.
In the same pot heat the oil and add onion, garlic, shallot, red bell pepper and jalapeno. Saute until vegetables
begin to brown, about 7 to 10 minutes. Add chili powder, cayenne pepper, chipotle pepper, salt and cook, stirring,
until spices begin to stick to the pan. Add Gallo burgundy and cook until liquid is reduced by 1 half.
Add tomatoes and bring to a boil. Stir in beans and reserved beef and simmer, partially covered, over medium low
heat for 1 hour. Serve with corn chips. Chili may be made, up to 2 days in advance and kept covered and refrigerated.
Reheat to serve.
Set aside.
In the same pot heat the oil and add onion, garlic, shallot, red bell pepper and jalapeno. Saute until vegetables
begin to brown, about 7 to 10 minutes. Add chili powder, cayenne pepper, chipotle pepper, salt and cook, stirring,
until spices begin to stick to the pan. Add Gallo burgundy and cook until liquid is reduced by 1 half.
Add tomatoes and bring to a boil. Stir in beans and reserved beef and simmer, partially covered, over medium low
heat for 1 hour. Serve with corn chips. Chili may be made, up to 2 days in advance and kept covered and refrigerated.
Reheat to serve.
I hate to be the one, but it has to be said (or posted). If you brown your meat with the garlic, you run the risk of burning the garlic. Plus, you add garlic again later in the dish? I'm calling misprint. I'm pretty sure you don't mean brown the meat with the garlic. I'm not even mentioning the inclusion of red wine, I mean in Chili? Oh what the heck, I'll try it next time.
Nope; draft picks should include in their valuation consideration of bust potential. A draft pick that is a certified winner is more valuable than one that is speculative. For example, you buy a lottery ticket for $1 and it turns out to be a $10 winner; starting valuation for that ticket post winning isnt $1.
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brown Beef chuck with thyme, sage and garlic. When browned remove and drain beef.
Set aside.
In the same pot heat the oil and add onion, garlic, shallot, red bell pepper and jalapeno. Saute until vegetables
begin to brown, about 7 to 10 minutes. Add chili powder, cayenne pepper, chipotle pepper, salt and cook, stirring,
until spices begin to stick to the pan. Add Gallo burgundy and cook until liquid is reduced by 1 half.
Add tomatoes and bring to a boil. Stir in beans and reserved beef and simmer, partially covered, over medium low
heat for 1 hour. Serve with corn chips. Chili may be made, up to 2 days in advance and kept covered and refrigerated.
Reheat to serve.
I hate to be the one, but it has to be said (or posted). If you brown your meat with the garlic, you run the risk of burning the garlic. Plus, you add garlic again later in the dish? I'm calling misprint. I'm pretty sure you don't mean brown the meat with the garlic. I'm not even mentioning the inclusion of red wine, I mean in Chili? Oh what the heck, I'll try it next time.
Does this post have an english translation?
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The Evans deal is the floor for what Beckham will get. I'd expect an "extension" for 5 years/$85-90M with ~$60M in guarantees when all is said and done. Add that to his current deal and the total will probably be 6 years, ~$100M. Hopefully they add in some incentives for finishing the year with 0 personal fouls/unsportmanlike penalties.
That jump from 85-90 to 100 is the fuzzy math part. He'd be able to claim he "got" $100m but it's really more like 90. And then it becomes a much simpler issue. Because he's certainly worth 5-7m more than Mike Evans.
Semantics. Evans received $82.5M in "new" money, but it was an extension so in total he's set to make ~$95M over 6 years per OTC.
If Beckham reaches an agreement this offseason, it'll likely be similar with Beckham getting a 5 year extension, but being signed for 6 years total, including the upcoming 2018 season. And the total (potential) earnings over those 6 years will exceed the $95M Evans can get and likely top $100M.
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Late firsts and Cooper Kupp don't move the needle at all. Gotta do much better than that.
Agreed, the only team that makes sense to me in as a trade partner is Cleveland.
Makes sense from a Giants (fans) perspective, but why would Cleveland do it? They just added Landry and they've got Gordon (for now) and Corey Coleman plus Njoku at TE. While Beckham would be a great addition to any offense, WR is probably the least of the Browns problems. IMO, they'd be better off staying at #4 and adding Chubb or Fitzpatrick to that defense. Or grab Barkley and give your #1 pick a dynamic play maker out of the backfield.