Two of the worst moments of watching day three of the draft in 2016...
1. "...with the 149th pick of the 2016 draft, the New York Giants select RUNNING BACK... (Yaaaaaay - They are taking Jordan Howard! We will have a running game again!) ...Paul Perkins (WHO?)"
2. "...with the 150th pick of the 2016 draft, the Chicago Bears select RUNNING BACK... (Noooooooooo - please, not the very next pick????) ...Jordan Howard (Yup - Mwaaaaaa Mwaaaaaa!)"
If Giants take Barkley, I don't think Perkins makes this team...
While he's capable of more than he showed in 2017... Â
... Perkins may simply be a one-trick pony. He isn't big or fast. He isn't especially quick or explosive, and he doesn't seem to have the Tiki/Ward knack for turning a short catch upfield and moving the chains.
He has a gorgeous jump-cut, which is visible in several of those clips. That talent produces some "wow" highlights when it works, but an NFL running back can't really live on that one move.
Was anointed the starter in the off season. He looked out of shape. He was a good draft pick IMO as I saw him play college ball. He could block and run and catch. 2017: Bad Scheme, bad line, bad coach, bad luck.
Two of the worst moments of watching day three of the draft in 2016...
1. "...with the 149th pick of the 2016 draft, the New York Giants select RUNNING BACK... (Yaaaaaay - They are taking Jordan Howard! We will have a running game again!) ...Paul Perkins (WHO?)"
2. "...with the 150th pick of the 2016 draft, the Chicago Bears select RUNNING BACK... (Noooooooooo - please, not the very next pick????) ...Jordan Howard (Yup - Mwaaaaaa Mwaaaaaa!)"
If Giants take Barkley, I don't think Perkins makes this team...
This is such a "hindsight guy" post. If you followed the draft enough to the point where you would have "loved" the Howard pick, you definitely heard of Paul Perkins. They were rated very similarly in terms of RB rankings (3rd to 5th round types) but just had different styles of play. Howard also had an injury history. The pick was fine at the time; of course looking back we would've rather taken Howard but the pick was a good value pick when it was made.
Gilbride pre-2012 used them a lot. Eli was in a much better rhythm with them back then. Now it looks like he’s taking a thick dump and happy to be rid of it
I'll tell you what happened
RobCrossRiver56 : 8:42 am : link : reply
Mac a Slick decided at some point that the defunct OL was going to block man up with no help. The running back was to find the hole on their own.
No Fullback lead, although he was on the bench then cut.
No Tight End to chip and help out the tackles, although he was on the bench too.
and this....
Perkins
djstat : 8:48 am : link : reply
Was anointed the starter in the off season. He looked out of shape. He was a good draft pick IMO as I saw him play college ball. He could block and run and catch. 2017: Bad Scheme, bad line, bad coach, bad luck.
Predictable play calling.
Perkins is a more rotational runner, than your starting RB.....I have no idea what happened...did it go to his head that he was just handed the job by Mac? But also, Solari's line at the beginning of the season just flat out sucked in the running game...add play calling, remember Gallman's sweep against the Eagles?
I hope he shows up for camp with more determination and in shape....
Two of the worst moments of watching day three of the draft in 2016...
1. "...with the 149th pick of the 2016 draft, the New York Giants select RUNNING BACK... (Yaaaaaay - They are taking Jordan Howard! We will have a running game again!) ...Paul Perkins (WHO?)"
2. "...with the 150th pick of the 2016 draft, the Chicago Bears select RUNNING BACK... (Noooooooooo - please, not the very next pick????) ...Jordan Howard (Yup - Mwaaaaaa Mwaaaaaa!)"
If Giants take Barkley, I don't think Perkins makes this team...
This is such a "hindsight guy" post. If you followed the draft enough to the point where you would have "loved" the Howard pick, you definitely heard of Paul Perkins. They were rated very similarly in terms of RB rankings (3rd to 5th round types) but just had different styles of play. Howard also had an injury history. The pick was fine at the time; of course looking back we would've rather taken Howard but the pick was a good value pick when it was made.
That pick was exactly what has plagued the Giants since 2011-2012 and what is driving the debates on this site. Idiotic personnel choices. It was never about Gilbride or Coughlin or Eli or any other distraction inducing issue. It has always been about downright stupid personnel moves... I can assure you, my television set just about landed down the block at the moment this happened... I was at the Michigan v Indiana game in 2015 and thought that Howard should have been rated a first or second round guy... watch the film and I defy you to find anything in Perkins' repertoire that comes close to that kind of performance... It's not about RB rankings - Howard is courageous and a gamer and fights every minute for his team... any scout could have seen that. I get the injury issue, but like Todd Gurley with his ACL, if you wanted a running back in that draft, you take Jordan Howard. Period. Especially in the fifth round!!! My God!!!! I would have loved nothing more than seeing Perkins shine but the last two years have only confirmed my worst fears that he is not going to make it in this league... So of course performance works in hindsight - but hopefully the era of dumb personnel decision making is behind us...
I think we will see a different Perkins this year. Improved line and a Â
shitty scheme, no oline or not, these guys are paid nfl professionals and looked like extreme dog shit all season long. Where is the talent to make a play?! These hacks shouldnt be on anyone's roster. I'd take an old beatup Sproles over the garbage at tailback. Id draft Barkely AND another guy. We need a major talent boost at the position that moves the chains.
By several analysts and scouts that McAdoo's running scheme was the worst in the league and that most RBs would struggle in it. From what we have seen since 2014, I cant disagree with that.
If we dont draft a running back, which would be a surprise, Perk should be a significant piece of the rotation. He has the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. Gallman, Stewart, Perk wouldnt be the end of the world, provided we upgrade the RG spot in the draft.
Perkins is fine as long as he is able to juke a defender to miss... the problem is, he has trouble breaking tackles and he doesn't have breakaway speed... the NFL is too fast a league for a running back to thrive if he can't outrun defenders and break tackles....
Was anointed the starter in the off season. He looked out of shape. He was a good draft pick IMO as I saw him play college ball. He could block and run and catch. 2017: Bad Scheme, bad line, bad coach, bad luck.
What stood out to me was that he looked out of shape early in the season. I wonder if he was trying to bulk up to take on a more regular load or frankly if he thought he already wrapped up the position and didn't work that hard. Our crappy OL and run scheme probably didn't help either.
followed by a terrible 1998, though not as bad as Perkins' 2017. We'll see what he's got this year in what hopefully is a much better offensive scheme than he's been stuck with so far.
The idiot coach handed OL jobs out like candy without competition and put one of the worst possible configurations on the field to start the year.
To compound the issue, he absolutely refused to try establishing the run before he realized he shouldn't be handling playcalling. In the first 3-4 games of the season, we ran the ball on consecutive plays like 3 times total. Not making that up or exaggerating, either.
Before injuries to shlubs like Bobby Hart, Perkins also got hurt - so when the OL had to reconfigure by default and we put Fluker in and swung Pugh outside, Perkins got banged up @ TB and never benefitted from the change in playcalling or better run blocking when Sullivan took over.
He just never had a shot this past season. He was getting hit in the backfield on most run plays, the run calls were coming at extremely predictable times, and the pass game was completely dysfunctional to the point where the run game just had no chance at all.
That's what happened to Paul Perkins.
Or at least, if you ask me...
I think we are going to see a significantly better O line Â
in 2018. Seems like guys like Perkins and Gallman don't necissarily have the power to move the pile but if the line can get them to that second level, they are going to be trouble for defenses
When TC sat the kids then the doghouse.
Seems Mc carried on the tradition, squared.
There comes a point when you have to make a fair evaluation; really hard to evaluate a guy sitting on a bench, even if you know he needs to be cut.
'17 would have been a great opportunity to showcase at 1-10/2-11, a la Webb.
That is a GREAT point. I went back to a bunch of additional clips, and you are absolutely correct. When he cuts right, it's a completely different move, and much less dramatic one.
I wonder if part of his problem in 2017 was that film study revealed his reliance on that move, and defenders started anticipating it by cheating to PP's left when he was contained.
When TC sat the kids then the doghouse.
Seems Mc carried on the tradition, squared.
There comes a point when you have to make a fair evaluation; really hard to evaluate a guy sitting on a bench, even if you know he needs to be cut.
'17 would have been a great opportunity to showcase at 1-10/2-11, a la Webb.
A BBI myth. It should be obvious to anyone at this point that the "kids" sat because they weren't any good.
Perkins is a role player and a role player isn't going to look any good playing in a Mickey Mouse offensive scheme coached by an idiot. Shurmer is at least a professional coach- maybe he can find a role for Perkins.
I am still good with Perkins. His second half of 2016 Â
The 2017 Offensive trainwreck blame goes out with many parties but lets at least give some "hall passes" to younger guys on the roster that have shown talent.
He hesitated 1-2 yards from the line and the hole in 2017 Â
Just looked like he lost all confidence in himself and the OL. Whether that is injury, coaching, weight.... hard to know. But he was no longer decisive at all. I think Mac panicked and didn't let him work his way through it -- not that he necessarily deserved that.
It's really hard to know how much the predictability and stubbornness of the last head coach affected a lot of these players. I hope I never hear the words "heavy-handed team" again.
Same with Gallman. I think one of Gallman or Perkins can become a great #2 if they gain power. Gallman looks like the guy, he runs way tougher and harder then Perkins. Similar attributes though.
I know elite speed isn't necessary as a RB , but even Jacobs and Bradshaw had that fast 5th, 6th gears that could outrun anyone .
Perkins doesn't hit top speed right away and when he does hit top speed, he's much slower then you'd like. He doesn't have Bradshaws top end speed, he doesn't have Bradshaws power either.
I don't like Perkins. I like Gallman, I don't love either.
I want Barkley, if not then I want an athletic stout back in the mid-late rounds 3-7
Two of the worst moments of watching day three of the draft in 2016...
1. "...with the 149th pick of the 2016 draft, the New York Giants select RUNNING BACK... (Yaaaaaay - They are taking Jordan Howard! We will have a running game again!) ...Paul Perkins (WHO?)"
2. "...with the 150th pick of the 2016 draft, the Chicago Bears select RUNNING BACK... (Noooooooooo - please, not the very next pick????) ...Jordan Howard (Yup - Mwaaaaaa Mwaaaaaa!)"
If Giants take Barkley, I don't think Perkins makes this team...
This is such a "hindsight guy" post. If you followed the draft enough to the point where you would have "loved" the Howard pick, you definitely heard of Paul Perkins. They were rated very similarly in terms of RB rankings (3rd to 5th round types) but just had different styles of play. Howard also had an injury history. The pick was fine at the time; of course looking back we would've rather taken Howard but the pick was a good value pick when it was made.
That pick was exactly what has plagued the Giants since 2011-2012 and what is driving the debates on this site. Idiotic personnel choices. It was never about Gilbride or Coughlin or Eli or any other distraction inducing issue. It has always been about downright stupid personnel moves... I can assure you, my television set just about landed down the block at the moment this happened... I was at the Michigan v Indiana game in 2015 and thought that Howard should have been rated a first or second round guy... watch the film and I defy you to find anything in Perkins' repertoire that comes close to that kind of performance... It's not about RB rankings - Howard is courageous and a gamer and fights every minute for his team... any scout could have seen that. I get the injury issue, but like Todd Gurley with his ACL, if you wanted a running back in that draft, you take Jordan Howard. Period. Especially in the fifth round!!! My God!!!! I would have loved nothing more than seeing Perkins shine but the last two years have only confirmed my worst fears that he is not going to make it in this league... So of course performance works in hindsight - but hopefully the era of dumb personnel decision making is behind us...
Jump cuts are to the left because the hole is most often to the left. The right side of the offensive line was pretty bad, but also the left side of the line anchored by Flowers actually did a serviceable job for most of the season.
But I agree that better scheming and play calling, with the TE and FB utilized more effectively in the run game, should yield better results for Perkins or anyone else that carries the ball for the Giants.
The Jump cut observations are cool and useful information.
I think the OP and Eric nailed it. The fall off was dramatic.
My 2 cents [opinion]
Basically I see Perkins as a 3rd down and change of pace back who at best all in during a game should touch the ball about ~12 times. He is small, and on "path to the draft" I thought he was to small to be an NFL feature back. He was thrust into a starting role with little emotional intelligence as to how that was handled, had little veteran rb leadership and ran timid out a combinatiin of self preservation and defenses closing in on his tendencies.
At this point the best thing for Perkins is to come in with a clean slate, with a clear understanding of how the offense can maximize his talent and he can be of maximum value to the offense. He's a decent reciever and for his size a willing pass blocker which would help him in a Shurmer offense. He did seem to give effort on special teams when he came back from injury and earned back some reps on offense from the deep doghouse so that could be something to build on. Or not.
1) I thought he was going to be one of the biggest steals of the draft when they took him.
2) I think RB is the hardest position on this team to judge moving forward because of how bad the OL was and how bad McAdoo's system/playcalling was. We honestly don't know what to expect from any RB, on this roster or not.
It looks like Ahmad Bradshaw and Tiki Barber had a baby.
1. "...with the 149th pick of the 2016 draft, the New York Giants select RUNNING BACK... (Yaaaaaay - They are taking Jordan Howard! We will have a running game again!) ...Paul Perkins (WHO?)"
2. "...with the 150th pick of the 2016 draft, the Chicago Bears select RUNNING BACK... (Noooooooooo - please, not the very next pick????) ...Jordan Howard (Yup - Mwaaaaaa Mwaaaaaa!)"
If Giants take Barkley, I don't think Perkins makes this team...
He has a gorgeous jump-cut, which is visible in several of those clips. That talent produces some "wow" highlights when it works, but an NFL running back can't really live on that one move.
Mac a Slick decided at some point that the defunct OL was going to block man up with no help. The running back was to find the hole on their own.
No Fullback lead, although he was on the bench then cut.
No Tight End to chip and help out the tackles, although he was on the bench too.
Predictable play calling.
But maybe this year is different
1. "...with the 149th pick of the 2016 draft, the New York Giants select RUNNING BACK... (Yaaaaaay - They are taking Jordan Howard! We will have a running game again!) ...Paul Perkins (WHO?)"
2. "...with the 150th pick of the 2016 draft, the Chicago Bears select RUNNING BACK... (Noooooooooo - please, not the very next pick????) ...Jordan Howard (Yup - Mwaaaaaa Mwaaaaaa!)"
If Giants take Barkley, I don't think Perkins makes this team...
This is such a "hindsight guy" post. If you followed the draft enough to the point where you would have "loved" the Howard pick, you definitely heard of Paul Perkins. They were rated very similarly in terms of RB rankings (3rd to 5th round types) but just had different styles of play. Howard also had an injury history. The pick was fine at the time; of course looking back we would've rather taken Howard but the pick was a good value pick when it was made.
Gilbride pre-2012 used them a lot. Eli was in a much better rhythm with them back then. Now it looks like he’s taking a thick dump and happy to be rid of it
He's not good at it, no
RobCrossRiver56 : 8:42 am : link : reply
Mac a Slick decided at some point that the defunct OL was going to block man up with no help. The running back was to find the hole on their own.
No Fullback lead, although he was on the bench then cut.
No Tight End to chip and help out the tackles, although he was on the bench too.
and this....
Perkins
djstat : 8:48 am : link : reply
Was anointed the starter in the off season. He looked out of shape. He was a good draft pick IMO as I saw him play college ball. He could block and run and catch. 2017: Bad Scheme, bad line, bad coach, bad luck.
Predictable play calling.
Perkins is a more rotational runner, than your starting RB.....I have no idea what happened...did it go to his head that he was just handed the job by Mac? But also, Solari's line at the beginning of the season just flat out sucked in the running game...add play calling, remember Gallman's sweep against the Eagles?
I hope he shows up for camp with more determination and in shape....
Quote:
Two of the worst moments of watching day three of the draft in 2016...
1. "...with the 149th pick of the 2016 draft, the New York Giants select RUNNING BACK... (Yaaaaaay - They are taking Jordan Howard! We will have a running game again!) ...Paul Perkins (WHO?)"
2. "...with the 150th pick of the 2016 draft, the Chicago Bears select RUNNING BACK... (Noooooooooo - please, not the very next pick????) ...Jordan Howard (Yup - Mwaaaaaa Mwaaaaaa!)"
If Giants take Barkley, I don't think Perkins makes this team...
This is such a "hindsight guy" post. If you followed the draft enough to the point where you would have "loved" the Howard pick, you definitely heard of Paul Perkins. They were rated very similarly in terms of RB rankings (3rd to 5th round types) but just had different styles of play. Howard also had an injury history. The pick was fine at the time; of course looking back we would've rather taken Howard but the pick was a good value pick when it was made.
That pick was exactly what has plagued the Giants since 2011-2012 and what is driving the debates on this site. Idiotic personnel choices. It was never about Gilbride or Coughlin or Eli or any other distraction inducing issue. It has always been about downright stupid personnel moves... I can assure you, my television set just about landed down the block at the moment this happened... I was at the Michigan v Indiana game in 2015 and thought that Howard should have been rated a first or second round guy... watch the film and I defy you to find anything in Perkins' repertoire that comes close to that kind of performance... It's not about RB rankings - Howard is courageous and a gamer and fights every minute for his team... any scout could have seen that. I get the injury issue, but like Todd Gurley with his ACL, if you wanted a running back in that draft, you take Jordan Howard. Period. Especially in the fifth round!!! My God!!!! I would have loved nothing more than seeing Perkins shine but the last two years have only confirmed my worst fears that he is not going to make it in this league... So of course performance works in hindsight - but hopefully the era of dumb personnel decision making is behind us...
If we dont draft a running back, which would be a surprise, Perk should be a significant piece of the rotation. He has the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. Gallman, Stewart, Perk wouldnt be the end of the world, provided we upgrade the RG spot in the draft.
Perkins is fine as long as he is able to juke a defender to miss... the problem is, he has trouble breaking tackles and he doesn't have breakaway speed... the NFL is too fast a league for a running back to thrive if he can't outrun defenders and break tackles....
Perkins looked like a very promising player after his rookie season. At the very least, a decent change of pace back. What the hell happened indeed.
Don't equate numbers with talent. I have high hopes for Gallman but there isn't much there.
He needs a good nickname.
He needs a good nickname.
Pitter-patter? Plotz?
The idiot coach handed OL jobs out like candy without competition and put one of the worst possible configurations on the field to start the year.
To compound the issue, he absolutely refused to try establishing the run before he realized he shouldn't be handling playcalling. In the first 3-4 games of the season, we ran the ball on consecutive plays like 3 times total. Not making that up or exaggerating, either.
Before injuries to shlubs like Bobby Hart, Perkins also got hurt - so when the OL had to reconfigure by default and we put Fluker in and swung Pugh outside, Perkins got banged up @ TB and never benefitted from the change in playcalling or better run blocking when Sullivan took over.
He just never had a shot this past season. He was getting hit in the backfield on most run plays, the run calls were coming at extremely predictable times, and the pass game was completely dysfunctional to the point where the run game just had no chance at all.
That's what happened to Paul Perkins.
Or at least, if you ask me...
Seems Mc carried on the tradition, squared.
There comes a point when you have to make a fair evaluation; really hard to evaluate a guy sitting on a bench, even if you know he needs to be cut.
'17 would have been a great opportunity to showcase at 1-10/2-11, a la Webb.
I wonder if part of his problem in 2017 was that film study revealed his reliance on that move, and defenders started anticipating it by cheating to PP's left when he was contained.
Quote:
his name. Paul Perkins? That’s not the name of an NFL RB, Paul Perkins is your local tax attorney.
He needs a good nickname.
Pitter-patter? Plotz?
Smash Jackson.
Seems Mc carried on the tradition, squared.
There comes a point when you have to make a fair evaluation; really hard to evaluate a guy sitting on a bench, even if you know he needs to be cut.
'17 would have been a great opportunity to showcase at 1-10/2-11, a la Webb.
Perkins is a role player and a role player isn't going to look any good playing in a Mickey Mouse offensive scheme coached by an idiot. Shurmer is at least a professional coach- maybe he can find a role for Perkins.
The 2017 Offensive trainwreck blame goes out with many parties but lets at least give some "hall passes" to younger guys on the roster that have shown talent.
It's really hard to know how much the predictability and stubbornness of the last head coach affected a lot of these players. I hope I never hear the words "heavy-handed team" again.
No, he can throw one. He just sucks at it...
I know elite speed isn't necessary as a RB , but even Jacobs and Bradshaw had that fast 5th, 6th gears that could outrun anyone .
Perkins doesn't hit top speed right away and when he does hit top speed, he's much slower then you'd like. He doesn't have Bradshaws top end speed, he doesn't have Bradshaws power either.
I don't like Perkins. I like Gallman, I don't love either.
I want Barkley, if not then I want an athletic stout back in the mid-late rounds 3-7
Would not be at all surprised if Perkins is not on the team by opening day.
Quote:
consensus was Eli couldn't throw a screen pass...
No, he can throw one. He just sucks at it...
Lol exhibit one...dont ever change bro...
Quote:
In comment 13893881 the mike said:
Quote:
Two of the worst moments of watching day three of the draft in 2016...
1. "...with the 149th pick of the 2016 draft, the New York Giants select RUNNING BACK... (Yaaaaaay - They are taking Jordan Howard! We will have a running game again!) ...Paul Perkins (WHO?)"
2. "...with the 150th pick of the 2016 draft, the Chicago Bears select RUNNING BACK... (Noooooooooo - please, not the very next pick????) ...Jordan Howard (Yup - Mwaaaaaa Mwaaaaaa!)"
If Giants take Barkley, I don't think Perkins makes this team...
This is such a "hindsight guy" post. If you followed the draft enough to the point where you would have "loved" the Howard pick, you definitely heard of Paul Perkins. They were rated very similarly in terms of RB rankings (3rd to 5th round types) but just had different styles of play. Howard also had an injury history. The pick was fine at the time; of course looking back we would've rather taken Howard but the pick was a good value pick when it was made.
That pick was exactly what has plagued the Giants since 2011-2012 and what is driving the debates on this site. Idiotic personnel choices. It was never about Gilbride or Coughlin or Eli or any other distraction inducing issue. It has always been about downright stupid personnel moves... I can assure you, my television set just about landed down the block at the moment this happened... I was at the Michigan v Indiana game in 2015 and thought that Howard should have been rated a first or second round guy... watch the film and I defy you to find anything in Perkins' repertoire that comes close to that kind of performance... It's not about RB rankings - Howard is courageous and a gamer and fights every minute for his team... any scout could have seen that. I get the injury issue, but like Todd Gurley with his ACL, if you wanted a running back in that draft, you take Jordan Howard. Period. Especially in the fifth round!!! My God!!!! I would have loved nothing more than seeing Perkins shine but the last two years have only confirmed my worst fears that he is not going to make it in this league... So of course performance works in hindsight - but hopefully the era of dumb personnel decision making is behind us...
Check out Perkins vs BYU in 2015.
They're right, it's hindsight.
Jump cuts are to the left because the hole is most often to the left. The right side of the offensive line was pretty bad, but also the left side of the line anchored by Flowers actually did a serviceable job for most of the season.
But I agree that better scheming and play calling, with the TE and FB utilized more effectively in the run game, should yield better results for Perkins or anyone else that carries the ball for the Giants.
I think the OP and Eric nailed it. The fall off was dramatic.
My 2 cents [opinion]
Basically I see Perkins as a 3rd down and change of pace back who at best all in during a game should touch the ball about ~12 times. He is small, and on "path to the draft" I thought he was to small to be an NFL feature back. He was thrust into a starting role with little emotional intelligence as to how that was handled, had little veteran rb leadership and ran timid out a combinatiin of self preservation and defenses closing in on his tendencies.
At this point the best thing for Perkins is to come in with a clean slate, with a clear understanding of how the offense can maximize his talent and he can be of maximum value to the offense. He's a decent reciever and for his size a willing pass blocker which would help him in a Shurmer offense. He did seem to give effort on special teams when he came back from injury and earned back some reps on offense from the deep doghouse so that could be something to build on. Or not.
2) I think RB is the hardest position on this team to judge moving forward because of how bad the OL was and how bad McAdoo's system/playcalling was. We honestly don't know what to expect from any RB, on this roster or not.