Excellent piece by Bucky Brooks on Nfl.com on why Josh Rosen is not only the best QB in this draft but the next great NFL QB.
"From his A-plus arm talent and flawless mechanics to his exceptional intelligence and football aptitude, Rosen has always checked off all of the boxes as a potential franchise quarterback. He is the quintessential player at the position, and we should be celebrating his arrival as the NFL's next great quarterback."
The full article below which explains why his negatives are really positives.
Ill add a link to Giants Daily which has 5 clips on Rosen that really demonstrate what Brooks is talking about. There is one in there which shows that Rosen can run effectively when necessary.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NYGDaily/status/981672494527668224
Keep in mind some of throws are coming in a 34 pt 4th Quarter comeback where Rosen had 491 yards and 4 TDs vs Aggies. It waa pretty epic and hard to believe it isnt more widely talked about.
It was 2nd largest comeback in NCAA history.
Full Article - (
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Videos - ( New Window )
Exactly.
This video reallly blows away the myth that Rosen can't move
Rosen runs - ( New Window )
I am of the same mind
Pass on him for that reason.
Possibly. But its funny that Rosen gets labeled as such when Allen doesnt. Allen missed more games then Rosen in college and has a steel plate in him. Ive never heard anyone of note say Allen has durability or injury concerns.
UCLA is 1-6 without him though.
This is simply not true. Rosen had a AC Joint Sprain or "soft tissue injury". Its literally the same exact injury that Allen just had. They thought it was a nerve issue but when opened up saw it was just a sprain. It healed on its own. He has no shoulder damage
This is a false narrative. 1- He is bigger than Darnold. 2- He has not suffered a "frame" injury like a broken bome. A concussion has zero to do with frame as does a muscle injury.
Here is an article detailing why this narrative is false.
"Former UCLA football quarterback Josh Rosen is once again getting negative press about his injuries which show a lack of research in scouting by several analysts for the NFL Combine."
Article on Rosen Injuries and why its wrong - ( New Window )
He's stouter than Eli. He's bigger than Darnold. He's a polished QB.
Not many QBs have every held up like Eli, so don't expect the next one to match Eli's durability.
He had "surgery" in tbe sense they opened him up but found the muscle was just strained.
Its exactly what Josh Allen just had. No one seems concerned about his injury.
You can say he misses too many games or blame him for losing but you cant do both
UCLA is 1-6 without Rosen. 17-13 with him. Seems like a big improvement over 1 guy
He also had 3 different OCs and 3 different offenses
I think yours is a fair take.
Im just gonna say that from what I understand the concussion risk is in closeness of them together this making it easier to get more ie less of a hit causes concussion.
This risk is mitigated by time between concussions.
If drafted and he sits behind Eli for 1 year, that would be 2 full years between concussions and severely mitigating this risk. He could even sit 2 years
Ill just say this. If his father can dictate what he does with his life, then thats what should be your concern. There is no evidence to suggest that Rosens Dad tells him what to do
Obviously you haven’t watched UCLA play.
Otherwise, you would realize they’ve had a swiss cheese defense essentially Rosen’s entire career at UCLA. And you wouldn’t cite such an irrelevant point.
Did you bother reading the article? He doesn't say the Giants should draft Rosen or any QB. He just makes the case that Rosen is the best QB in the draft and will be the next great NFL QB. In the video in the article (Not the GiantsDaily twitter clips), Brooks agrees with the others that the Jets would be ideal.
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concerned about the concussions, not the shoulder. And no, I don't care about his "antics" or comments, although the Giants might. Because of his talent, I'm fine if the Giants draft him, but I'd prefer they don't.
I think yours is a fair take.
Im just gonna say that from what I understand the concussion risk is in closeness of them together this making it easier to get more ie less of a hit causes concussion.
This risk is mitigated by time between concussions.
If drafted and he sits behind Eli for 1 year, that would be 2 full years between concussions and severely mitigating this risk. He could even sit 2 years
Once someone starts getting concussions (minor or not) it's a big gamble, because he could be prone to more and more serious. I like Rosen. It's just something the medical staff will have to evaluate.
If we go quarterback I'm in the Darnold/ Rosen camp. I Don't want any part of Allen due to his accuracy issues. That's a bigger red flag to me than anything with any of the other quarterbacks and I'm not big on Mayfield.
You keep saying that. I have no idea what you are saying.
Are you saying he has only played in 12 out of 20 games? That is what I think has happened. You make it sound like he hasn't played a full game in 20 games.
I remember Eli winning in the SEC vs superior competition.
As I've said, I'm not high on any of the QBs. Darnold has bad mechanics. Allen is too inaccurate. Mayfield has real character concerns and was often throwing to wide open receivers. Rosen has an injury history with concussions.
I remember Eli winning in the SEC vs superior competition.
You do? He had one single season above .500 in the SEC in his college career.
I will say that if the Giants don't take a QB at #2, I'd prefer they not take one at all.
+1
Also some of those 12 he never even started because of injury let alone didn't finish them.
If the Browns pick Darnold.. I believe the Giants will pick either Rosen of Allen.
If the Browns select Allen the Giants will choose between Rosen and Darnold. Rosen would still be my hope.
If you think sheer talent wins out Rosen should be the pick. He throws with the best anticipation into tight windows.
I agree the injuries are a concern but you roll the dice with this kid and you just might have the next Tom Brady. I don't see the same upside with the other QBs.
But if Shurmur wants one of the other QBs I will be content. If he sees something he can work with, that is cool with me. But they must take a stab at a QB.
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Hasn't made it start to finish in 12 of his last 20 college starts. Fact. The people denying his injury concerns are fooling themselves. I want no part of rosen
You keep saying that. I have no idea what you are saying.
Are you saying he has only played in 12 out of 20 games? That is what I think has happened. You make it sound like he hasn't played a full game in 20 games.
He is wording it to make it sound like Rosen cant finish games and leaves games due to injuries all the time. Like he cant “finish” games. Like he leaves due to a sore rib, bruised hand. Etc. His “frame”. That’s not true
he missed 6 games due to the shoulder which ended up being basically misdiagnosed and costing him more time.
He had the concussion 1 game. Likely UCLA brought him back too early and he had another which is the other game he missed.
If it is the former, the Giants might be the ideal situation to prepare him physically for the long haul in the NFL. It is also important to note that Quarterbacks will continue to get protected more and more by the rules and if we can put a good oline around him that would help tremendously.
Not saying I want him as I love the idea of Barkley from a pure entertainment possibility--I also miss watching a really good running back on the Giants--but I remember before last season there was some talk about this year's draft class, how good Rosen was and the thought of getting him was not even a possibility. Out of all the qbs and admittedly knowing not much (I did see a game or two of his), I am most intrigued by him.
I remember Eli winning in the SEC vs superior competition.
Im glad you are worried about winning & losing records of QBs.
A lot of people arent worried enough about Eli’s recent NFL record.
Last 5 seasons Eli is 33-46.
Like Shurmur said, when they see it they’ll know it. I think Rosen’s it.
Concussions worry me, Id take Darnold.
If it is the former, the Giants might be the ideal situation to prepare him physically for the long haul in the NFL. It is also important to note that Quarterbacks will continue to get protected more and more by the rules and if we can put a good oline around him that would help tremendously.
Not saying I want him as I love the idea of Barkley from a pure entertainment possibility--I also miss watching a really good running back on the Giants--but I remember before last season there was some talk about this year's draft class, how good Rosen was and the thought of getting him was not even a possibility. Out of all the qbs and admittedly knowing not much (I did see a game or two of his), I am most intrigued by him.
I believe you are right about the concussions.
Rosen just turned 21. If he sat 2 years, he will be same age as Eli during his rookie season. 23.
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Rosen as the best pick we could make in this draft...
Concussions worry me, Id take Darnold.
Fair enough, But what if Darnold is off the board?
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Rosen as the best pick we could make in this draft...
Concussions worry me, Id take Darnold.
Taking a lesser quality QB worries me, I wouldn't...
[quote] And my guess is the NYG regret that decision in short order. [/quote
^^^This 110% - passing on Rosen wouldl haunt this franchise for a decade.
He is going to be a top NFL QB.
What are you stating? You say he did not finish 12 of 20 games? Just what does that mean? The sent in the backup QB in 12 of 20 games?
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In comment 13903359 jtgiants said:
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Hasn't made it start to finish in 12 of his last 20 college starts. Fact. The people denying his injury concerns are fooling themselves. I want no part of rosen
You keep saying that. I have no idea what you are saying.
Are you saying he has only played in 12 out of 20 games? That is what I think has happened. You make it sound like he hasn't played a full game in 20 games.
He is wording it to make it sound like Rosen cant finish games and leaves games due to injuries all the time. Like he cant “finish” games. Like he leaves due to a sore rib, bruised hand. Etc. His “frame”. That’s not true
he missed 6 games due to the shoulder which ended up being basically misdiagnosed and costing him more time.
He had the concussion 1 game. Likely UCLA brought him back too early and he had another which is the other game he missed.
No. In 12 of his last 20 games at UCLA, he either didn't start because of injury or didn't finish games he started because of injury. In other words he only started and finished 8 of his last 20 games.
Actually. Its not a fact.
You wrote:
“Hasn't made it start to finish in 12 of his last 20 college starts.”
He did not start 6 of those games. he did not play at all in them.
No one would say that Odell Beckham was not able to finish his last 11 starts.
Not being able to ‘finish” a start implies an entirely different connotation to it.
So, not a fact.
Hahahaha I love it!
By the way, the weather is cloudy and rain is expected...
I've been looking and cannot confirm or disprove this.
You know, this has been mentioned a couple of times, and yes, it was an impressive comeback and Rosen made some great throws to lead them back...BUT...
The A&M defense bailed him out twice. He threw an absolute terrible throw that went right through the safety's hands and into the receiver's hands, on a ball he severely underthrew, that went for a TD. In the NFL, that's a INT 10 out of 10 times, and the game is essentially over.
He also threw an absolute duck in the left front of the end zone in which the A&M defenders basically fell over each other and couldn't get out of each other's way to either make the INT or break it up. It was a bad pass, and the defense (and his receiver) bailed him out.
I give Rosen credit for making a lot of the other plays in that game but the fact is that he made some poor throws he absolutely got away with and the primary reason that UCLA won that game was dumb luck, that's the bottom line.
Hate to break it to you but not everyone in NFL was born poor and most players have had concussions.
You dont get as good as he is without working your ass off and people like that just sont up and quit
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Down by 34 with less than 2 minutes remaining in the 3rd quarter he lead an impressive comeback. I knew a little about Rosen but that game really made me pay more attention to him.
You know, this has been mentioned a couple of times, and yes, it was an impressive comeback and Rosen made some great throws to lead them back...BUT...
The A&M defense bailed him out twice. He threw an absolute terrible throw that went right through the safety's hands and into the receiver's hands, on a ball he severely underthrew, that went for a TD. In the NFL, that's a INT 10 out of 10 times, and the game is essentially over.
He also threw an absolute duck in the left front of the end zone in which the A&M defenders basically fell over each other and couldn't get out of each other's way to either make the INT or break it up. It was a bad pass, and the defense (and his receiver) bailed him out.
I give Rosen credit for making a lot of the other plays in that game but the fact is that he made some poor throws he absolutely got away with and the primary reason that UCLA won that game was dumb luck, that's the bottom line.
Jim,
I agree with you that there was some luck involved. There usually is with that level of comeback. However, can the same not be said about Eli's drive in the Super Bowl. Not only was the helmet catch play crazy lucky, but he had a play on the sideline where Asante Samuel should have intercepted a pass that would have ended the game. Those plays are inevitably part of crazy games like that.
Weather he has had concussions or weather he has been unable to finish a bunch of games because he tries too hard.
Why?
Because he the best QB in this draft...
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Rosen missed a good chunk of 2016 because he had surgery on his injured shoulder... He has missed major chunks of time because of injuries and he's still young and healthy. It's not like his injury issues will stop once he starts getting hit by larger and faster players.
This is simply not true. Rosen had a AC Joint Sprain or "soft tissue injury". Its literally the same exact injury that Allen just had. They thought it was a nerve issue but when opened up saw it was just a sprain. It healed on its own. He has no shoulder damage
Agreed. AC joint is a non-issue IMV. I thought Allen’s issue was a collarbone?
Don't forget the Barkley lobby, the Nelson lobby, the Chubb lobby and of course the trade down lobby. Fun times ahead.
This article talk about the latest research at Boston University
"There was no correlation between the presence or severity of concussion and CTE pathology. “Head impacts can trigger CTE with no concussion at all,” says Goldstein. “Concussions cannot be the cause of CTE.”
Such an experiment is impossible to replicate in humans, but some researchers believe that repetitive head trauma in a sport like football may be contributing to CTE. “The focus on concussion is not based in valid science or clinical research,” says Goldstein. “This is the first experimental evidence to solidly say that it’s the hits, not concussions, that count for CTE.”
Yes I disagree. Darnold maybe, unless the Browns take Allen at 1, then he may be 3 to the Jets.
Darnold IS NOT a better QB than Rosen right now. Rosen is right now the most polished and complete QB in the draft.
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Because until recently he was against the Giants drafting a QB.
Did you bother reading the article? He doesn't say the Giants should draft Rosen or any QB. He just makes the case that Rosen is the best QB in the draft and will be the next great NFL QB. In the video in the article (Not the GiantsDaily twitter clips), Brooks agrees with the others that the Jets would be ideal.
No I didn't read it. Now I'm glad I didn't. It's pretty apparent Bucky is clueless when it comes to positional value.
He absolutely is in the conversation for #1 overall. He hinted that he didn’t want to play in Cleveland, so I think the assumption is they won’t take him.
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In comment 13903319 pizbo said:
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Rosen missed a good chunk of 2016 because he had surgery on his injured shoulder... He has missed major chunks of time because of injuries and he's still young and healthy. It's not like his injury issues will stop once he starts getting hit by larger and faster players.
This is simply not true. Rosen had a AC Joint Sprain or "soft tissue injury". Its literally the same exact injury that Allen just had. They thought it was a nerve issue but when opened up saw it was just a sprain. It healed on its own. He has no shoulder damage
Agreed. AC joint is a non-issue IMV. I thought Allen’s issue was a collarbone?
Yes. Allen has twice broken his collarbone. Metal plate with screws.
And he also hurt his shoulder this season missing a month of time and 2 games.
I think Rosen's a lock for the Jets if he's there.
This isnt true either. Most scouts boards have Rosen over Darnold like Great Blue North, Draft Board Guru. Draft Ace. Huddle Report. Everyone of those has Rosen over Darnold
You mean analysts like Mayock, McShay, Kiper, etc
Most of them have Darnold over Rosen. The talking heads
Link to Scouts Rankings - ( New Window )
no chance he drops far. He will be gone by #5 to Denver or whoever they may trade with. I don't know where you get that he is third on most lists. Most lists I see have him 1 or 2. A few have Allen higher on speculation he can improve. He is almost universally regarded as the best pro ready passer in this draft. Greg Cosell, a pretty smart guy when it comes to QBs, rates Rosen number one. The only reason he is not in the convo for #1 overall is the heavy rumor he doesnt want Cleveland. I understand that there are many out there that think Darnold will project as the better pro. I don't see it. He has a lot to work on. I'm sure he will be good but this anti-Rosen sentiment is unsubstantiated by the facts. Right now he is the best. He outplayed Darnold head to head and he has the best tape. He dramatically outpaces Darnold in the area of throwing with anticipation into tight windows - the most important quality a QB can possess. And it is just awesome that he is a curious fellow who wants to be challenged. That's the kind of guy who can grow into a great one. Give me Rosen over Darnold all day.
From the inarticulate post to standing by it, he is just trolling for an argument.
Darnold
Allen
Mayfield
Rosen.
I don't think Rosen plays 5 years in the league. Do research. Guys who are banged up in college usually don't reverse the trend in the pros
Allen may give him a run because of his arm talent but it should be Rosen/Allen as the top 2 this year.
My guess is:
CLE: Allen
NYG: Rosen
Allen may give him a run because of his arm talent but it should be Rosen/Allen as the top 2 this year.
My guess is:
CLE: Allen
NYG: Rosen
Agreed. I think the Giants take him at 2. Or will very much regret it. Darnold is no slouch either though. I think Allen is very much the wildcard.
1. Darnold browns
2. Allen Broncos
3. Mayfield jets
4. Chubb or Barkley browns
5. Chubb or barkley whoever Cleveland doesn't take
Look I wouldn't be shocked by any order these Qbs go in. Literally any order is possible. But Rosen could certainly go 1, 2 or 3. My prediction is:
1. CLE - Darnold
2. NYG - Rosen
3. NYJ - Allen
4. BUF (trade) - Mayfield
But really it is just a guess. Like everybody else's order. I don't think the Jets traded up for Mayfield however. I think they want one of Darnold, Rosen, Allen. At the time they traded up it seemed very likely that Mayfield would be there at 6. I think they want one of the other QBs.
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his record is 17-13 over 3 years which is very pedestrian
UCLA is 1-6 without him though.
'nuff said.
Stop it. I am not trying to troll you. If someone else is I don’t know what to tell you. I am just telling you how I view things.
I also would not listen to a word Jim Mora says about anything.
Ben Allbright who has a great track record when breaking NFL news says that Rosen is very high on the Giants board. He said that if the Browns go Darnold the Giants likely choice is Rosen. He said that could change between now and the draft, but if everything stays the same then they will take Rosen.
Idk how you can completely dismiss it. They Giants have met with the guy a ton. Including both of our Owners having dinner with him. John Mara & Steve Tisch wouldn't be having dinner with him if there wasn't a very high chance that they take him at. 2.
You don't like him for whatever reason, but you are completely wrong about him. Everybody has him ranked high. They literally can't point out any negatives about him as a football player. Only some bullshit off the field stuff.
The Browns know he wants that too. It wouldn’t surprise me if the browns try to pull a San Diego and try to make the Giants pay for him
I’ll bet Dorsey and Gettleman are putting they’re big boy pants on for this one
Stay tuned.......
You don't like him for whatever reason, but you are completely wrong about him. Everybody has him ranked high. They literally can't point out any negatives about him as a football player. Only some bullshit off the field stuff.
Injuries ARE on the field stuff...and off the field stuff matters too. I'm sorry if a kid approaching the draft is already talking about what he wants to do after football that is a problem. But ok put all of that aside...fact is he has shown to be injury prone. On top of that he has shown that he can't move worth diddly. That is a bad combination.
There is no medical professional worth his salt out there who will be able to tell the Giants this kid won't have concussion problems in the NFL. That makes him a high risk pick and a stupid one at 2.
Or it says that they're all equally mediocre.
Sorry you can't coach him not getting hit. He IS gonna get hit and a lot hard and more frequently than in college. He has had 2 concussions in a short amount of time...that should be enough to pass on him at the 2 pick. It is way too much of a gamble to take at that spot ESPECIALLY when Barkley is staring at you in the face.
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of the "top" QBs says a lot about this class. They are gifted but open to question. Someone is going to regret the decision they make.
Or it says that they're all equally mediocre.
You can keep beating this drum but one thing is apparent. NFL teams looking for QBs completely disagree with you, as do almost ALL of the “draft gurus”. But yeah, you know more than all of them combined....
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You don't like him for whatever reason, but you are completely wrong about him. Everybody has him ranked high. They literally can't point out any negatives about him as a football player. Only some bullshit off the field stuff.
Injuries ARE on the field stuff...and off the field stuff matters too. I'm sorry if a kid approaching the draft is already talking about what he wants to do after football that is a problem. But ok put all of that aside...fact is he has shown to be injury prone. On top of that he has shown that he can't move worth diddly. That is a bad combination.
There is no medical professional worth his salt out there who will be able to tell the Giants this kid won't have concussion problems in the NFL. That makes him a high risk pick and a stupid one at 2.
Obviously there is. If they thought he would have another concussion the Giants wouldn't be sending everybody to work him out and have dinner with him. Then bring him to NY for another private workout. If there was a medical issue they wouldn't be meeting with him like they are. Neither would every team picking in the top 10.
Also it's hilarious that you don't think every single player in the NFL has had at least 1 concussion in their career. Just because the NCAA & NFL covered concussions up for years doesn't mean they weren't happening.
Sure let's knock him because he wants a good life after football. If he didn't love football why would he even be here? He doesn't need the money. He could live off his Dad or he could just go straight into another profession. It's also funny that you don't think these teams know everything about the kid. Yet they are still bringing him in day after day. Meeting after meeting. Sure Zepp knows more about Rosen. So we shouldn't draft him.
Just get it out of your head we aren't drafting Barkley. Just not happening.
There s never been a guy that was can t miss, some even felt Leaf was better than Peyton.
Just admit it. You don t want to draft a quarterback because you're more concerned about the next few seasons than long term, or you don t want to see Eli gone after this season.
That s ok, but stop trying to justify it by repeating over and over that a reputedly good quarterback class really isn't.
Kim Jones wants to suck Barkley's dick. So her opinion is irrelevant. She's a Penn State homer. Paul Dottino & Schwartz have never broken a piece of news in their life. I'll take the opinion of a guy who has worked with Gettleman over them.
Ben Allbright knew exactly who Gettleman was taking last year. Two weeks before the draft. He says no shot it's Barkley. He says Darnold/Rosen/Chubb.
The Giants needing cap space and not restructuring Eli tells you all you need to know. They won't commit to Eli past this year.
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In comment 13903738 Big Rick in FL said:
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You don't like him for whatever reason, but you are completely wrong about him. Everybody has him ranked high. They literally can't point out any negatives about him as a football player. Only some bullshit off the field stuff.
Injuries ARE on the field stuff...and off the field stuff matters too. I'm sorry if a kid approaching the draft is already talking about what he wants to do after football that is a problem. But ok put all of that aside...fact is he has shown to be injury prone. On top of that he has shown that he can't move worth diddly. That is a bad combination.
There is no medical professional worth his salt out there who will be able to tell the Giants this kid won't have concussion problems in the NFL. That makes him a high risk pick and a stupid one at 2.
Obviously there is. If they thought he would have another concussion the Giants wouldn't be sending everybody to work him out and have dinner with him. Then bring him to NY for another private workout. If there was a medical issue they wouldn't be meeting with him like they are. Neither would every team picking in the top 10.
Also it's hilarious that you don't think every single player in the NFL has had at least 1 concussion in their career. Just because the NCAA & NFL covered concussions up for years doesn't mean they weren't happening.
Sure let's knock him because he wants a good life after football. If he didn't love football why would he even be here? He doesn't need the money. He could live off his Dad or he could just go straight into another profession. It's also funny that you don't think these teams know everything about the kid. Yet they are still bringing him in day after day. Meeting after meeting. Sure Zepp knows more about Rosen. So we shouldn't draft him.
Just get it out of your head we aren't drafting Barkley. Just not happening.
Yeah I'm sorry that is a knock. He hasn't even started his NFL career yet and he's already thinking about what hes doing afterwards? Sorry that is a clear sign that the NFL is not his primary focus.
And there is no medical professional who could guarantee or say this kid won't have another concussion. Sorry there just isn't. That doesnt mean you dont do your due diligence and actually the fact that theyve brought him in so much tells me they are aware of his red flags and are trying to find anything to justify possibly taking him. It doesn't matter about other players. What matters is that we know for a FACT that Rosen has had 2 concussions in a short amount of time and that makes him a high risk to have another, and another, and another.
Maybe you should get it out of your head that we arent drafting Rosen or probably any QB in the first round for the reasons Ive stated. Anyway you look at it drafting any QB outside of Darnold that high is a high risk proposition and a completely idiotic move considering the sure thing sitting on the table.
Barkley certainly isn't a sure thing. He was held under 100 yards in over 60% of his games against college kids.
The Giants needing cap space and not restructuring Eli tells you all you need to know. They won't commit to Eli past this year.
Not true. I've said many times that if Darnold is there he would be a good pick. What I don't want is for this GM to do what a lot of clueless fans want and that is a QB at all costs. Sorry in this draft where the BPA is not a QB that isn't a winning formula. ESPECIALLY when 3 of the 4 top rated QB's have serious red flags. If Rosen didn't have the concussions issues I'd probably take him despite his affluenza insufferable personality. Fact is he has concussions issues. If Allen could hit the side of a building I'd probably consider taking him also.
We don't have a perfect set of options. So it all comes down on risk taking and risking the future of the franchise on a guy with a tin head and a guy who can't hit anyone when there is a sure thing sitting on the table is BEYOND stupid IMO.
If Darnold is there I can understand that pick despite my support for Eli....but these other scrub QB's? Yeah no thanks. I'll take my chances with a dynamic offense and make a run these next 2 years and have confidence that my miracle working HC can do what he did with Case Keenum with Davis Webb.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion about any of these players and anything that may happen on draft day. But the people who post "no way they take so-and-so" or "they love so-and-so" are really just regurgitating what they read from other people who are guessing.
Barkley certainly isn't a sure thing. He was held under 100 yards in over 60% of his games against college kids.
LOL!!! funny how thats the only knock against him which shows you what a clean prospect he is. All of it is a risk. Thats the draft. The teams that hit are the ones that take calculated risks and are smart about where they put all their chips. Barkley is as clean a prospect and the best player in this class and its not even close!!!! To pass on him to take a HUGE gamble on these other 3 QB's is simply foolish.
How could I be Rosens Dad? I thought Rosens Dad doesnt want him to play football? Wouldnt Rosens Dad be arguing against drafting him?
Besides why would Rosens Dad be on a message board? Hes like the wealthiest Doctor of all time. Able to support generations of his family, right? I hear its like Zuckerberg, Gates, Buffett, Rosens Dad.
Lastly, chest injuries? Quite the theory. Has Rosen sustained 1 chest injury? I dont think so. Head, shoulder, no chest.
Garbage QBs? God I didn't think you could be anymore clueless. Teams are literally doing anything they can to move up. Other coaches & former NFL people are saying it's a great QB class. But Zepp doesn't think so. We should listen to him. Just stop. You sound dumb.
Garbage QBs? God I didn't think you could be anymore clueless. Teams are literally doing anything they can to move up. Other coaches & former NFL people are saying it's a great QB class. But Zepp doesn't think so. We should listen to him. Just stop. You sound dumb.
Uhh no the knock on him was he didnt perform well against a couple of college teams in a couple of games...which by the way other prospects didn't perform well either. Considering his body of work and everything else Barkley brings to the table, no its not a big deal....just like it wasn't a big deal that the Mississippi team that Eli led didn't always have good games.
Yeah of course teams are doing that...and guess which teams are doing that? The ones that have been perennially bad and the ones that are desperate. You really want the Giants to follow the Jets lead on drafting? Oh yeah Big Rick in FL wants us to throw caution into the wind and just do what the Jets are doing because MY GOD!!! They are trading up so they must know something!!! Talk about sounding like moron.
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Performed in over half of his college games? News flash that's a pretty big deal.
Garbage QBs? God I didn't think you could be anymore clueless. Teams are literally doing anything they can to move up. Other coaches & former NFL people are saying it's a great QB class. But Zepp doesn't think so. We should listen to him. Just stop. You sound dumb.
Uhh no the knock on him was he didnt perform well against a couple of college teams in a couple of games...which by the way other prospects didn't perform well either. Considering his body of work and everything else Barkley brings to the table, no its not a big deal....just like it wasn't a big deal that the Mississippi team that Eli led didn't always have good games.
Yeah of course teams are doing that...and guess which teams are doing that? The ones that have been perennially bad and the ones that are desperate. You really want the Giants to follow the Jets lead on drafting? Oh yeah Big Rick in FL wants us to throw caution into the wind and just do what the Jets are doing because MY GOD!!! They are trading up so they must know something!!! Talk about sounding like moron.
Couple of games? He was held under 100 yards in 23 of his 38 games. That's not a couple bud. That's a shit ton of games.
As for whether or not Rosen is in the conversation for Cleveland with the #1 pick, that depends on who's having the conversation, doesn't it? We're having a conversation about it right now and Rosen has been included, so right off the bat you're starting from behind the eight ball. And I'm quite sure his name has come up in conversations over at Cleveland headquarters (it's hard to schedule a visit without saying his name). And, btw, Dorsey vehemently denied Tony Pauline's claim that he was the source who said "stay away from Rosen."
p.s.--Beware of falling for the narrative being pushed by the CAA empire which represents both Darnold and Josh Allen (and I suspect Kiper, Mayock, McShay, and the majority of the talking heads in the sports industry). Here's a little something Florio pointed out re: the report that Rosen didn't want to play for Cleveland...
Do you even know what affluenza is?
If you did you wouldnt use that term to describe a guy who is about to be a professionsl football player
Let alone one known for learning his playbook in 3 days and challenging his coaches to give him more responsibility.
That's why our owner benched Eli last year. That's why they brought in a QB guru at HC. That's why they brought in a former QB at OC. That's why they haven't restructured his deal. That's why the OC is traveling the country looking at QBs. Not RBs. Not OGs. Shula is at every top QBs Pro Day. That's why both of our owners were having dinner with Rosen. That's why basically all of our top decision makers were out scouting QB prospects. They think Eli is finished. It's plain as day to see.
Do you even know what affluenza is?
If you did you wouldnt use that term to describe a guy who is about to be a professionsl football player
Let alone one known for learning his playbook in 3 days and challenging his coaches to give him more responsibility.
So cuz the guy has a photographic memory I'm supposed to ignore the reports of him dividing locker rooms because hes such an arrogant prick? Or ignore the fact that he hasn't taken 1 snap in the NFL and he's already looking forward to a life after football? Or ignore the fact that he has had multiple concussions and is seriously immobile?
That's why our owner benched Eli last year. That's why they brought in a QB guru at HC. That's why they brought in a former QB at OC. That's why they haven't restructured his deal. That's why the OC is traveling the country looking at QBs. Not RBs. Not OGs. Shula is at every top QBs Pro Day. That's why both of our owners were having dinner with Rosen. That's why basically all of our top decision makers were out scouting QB prospects. They think Eli is finished. It's plain as day to see.
More like youre bias against Eli can't let you think straight....or maybe you just can't do that already. Thats why the HC and GM were fired...partly because of benching Eli for Geno Smith which you probably thought was a good idea.
Its due diligence to look at everyone that could possibly be available for them. Only someone who thinks we should do what the Jets are doing wouldn't think otherwise.
Or maybe you're just not smart enough to think maybe they don't have to do much homework on Barkley or want to show much interest in him because thats who they want. When you going to buy something and you're not sure about something thats the item you examine closely, over and over. When you know what you want you don't have to take more than one look at it.
But that concept is just foreign to you.
That's why our owner benched Eli last year. That's why they brought in a QB guru at HC. That's why they brought in a former QB at OC. That's why they haven't restructured his deal. That's why the OC is traveling the country looking at QBs. Not RBs. Not OGs. Shula is at every top QBs Pro Day. That's why both of our owners were having dinner with Rosen. That's why basically all of our top decision makers were out scouting QB prospects. They think Eli is finished. It's plain as day to see.
Totally and completely agree. The bias for some people towards Eli is mind boggling. Even if he has 2 years left then what? When you are in the position the Giants are we can’t pass on the QB. That’s what the Browns have done. They are spending a lot of time with these QBs especially Rosen, they are picking 2 they really don’t need to use that much of a so called smokescreen. Maybe they want Cleveland to pick someone they don’t want but that’s 1 team. I don’t buy into the Giants only like Darnold narrative. I think that’s what they want out there, or like others have mentioned agents involved start these rumors.
The Giants passing on a QB at #2 in this class is beyond negligent it’s moronic.
Ive read the piece that he references and believe it. There are also other signs.
I think the Giants are very fortunate that Clev management has fallen for these stories about Rosen.
It happens. It happened with Marino. It happened with Rodgers.
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Your bias towards Eli. We already figured that out. The team obviously thinks differently.
That's why our owner benched Eli last year. That's why they brought in a QB guru at HC. That's why they brought in a former QB at OC. That's why they haven't restructured his deal. That's why the OC is traveling the country looking at QBs. Not RBs. Not OGs. Shula is at every top QBs Pro Day. That's why both of our owners were having dinner with Rosen. That's why basically all of our top decision makers were out scouting QB prospects. They think Eli is finished. It's plain as day to see.
Totally and completely agree. The bias for some people towards Eli is mind boggling. Even if he has 2 years left then what? When you are in the position the Giants are we can’t pass on the QB. That’s what the Browns have done. They are spending a lot of time with these QBs especially Rosen, they are picking 2 they really don’t need to use that much of a so called smokescreen. Maybe they want Cleveland to pick someone they don’t want but that’s 1 team. I don’t buy into the Giants only like Darnold narrative. I think that’s what they want out there, or like others have mentioned agents involved start these rumors.
The Giants passing on a QB at #2 in this class is beyond negligent it’s moronic.
Moronic? I'll tell ya what's moronic, anyone here thinking they know better than the professionals paid by the Giants to make this pick.
If it's a QB then they feel it's best for the team. If they pass on one it's because they don't think they're all that most people are making them out to be.
I'll leave the scouting,research and all else up to their expertise, and I'll get behind the pick no matter who it is.
Sure it's fun discussing who we feel they should pick, and that's what drives these boards but stating who or what position they have to take in absolute terms is moronic IMO.
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Homestly in 30+ years of watching football Ive never seen such ludicrous criticisms of a player then Rosen,
Do you even know what affluenza is?
If you did you wouldnt use that term to describe a guy who is about to be a professionsl football player
Let alone one known for learning his playbook in 3 days and challenging his coaches to give him more responsibility.
So cuz the guy has a photographic memory I'm supposed to ignore the reports of him dividing locker rooms because hes such an arrogant prick? Or ignore the fact that he hasn't taken 1 snap in the NFL and he's already looking forward to a life after football? Or ignore the fact that he has had multiple concussions and is seriously immobile?
Divided locker room? There have been a few anonymous players who have said they dont like. Numerous teammates have gone on record saying its all made up
Despite the medias attempts to make their comments sound negative, Mora & Dilfer have both defended Rosen, spoken up about liking Rosen and going on record about how he will be a great pro. They have clarified their comments several times .
In short, there doesnt appear much to it
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In comment 13903821 Big Rick in FL said:
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Your bias towards Eli. We already figured that out. The team obviously thinks differently.
That's why our owner benched Eli last year. That's why they brought in a QB guru at HC. That's why they brought in a former QB at OC. That's why they haven't restructured his deal. That's why the OC is traveling the country looking at QBs. Not RBs. Not OGs. Shula is at every top QBs Pro Day. That's why both of our owners were having dinner with Rosen. That's why basically all of our top decision makers were out scouting QB prospects. They think Eli is finished. It's plain as day to see.
Totally and completely agree. The bias for some people towards Eli is mind boggling. Even if he has 2 years left then what? When you are in the position the Giants are we can’t pass on the QB. That’s what the Browns have done. They are spending a lot of time with these QBs especially Rosen, they are picking 2 they really don’t need to use that much of a so called smokescreen. Maybe they want Cleveland to pick someone they don’t want but that’s 1 team. I don’t buy into the Giants only like Darnold narrative. I think that’s what they want out there, or like others have mentioned agents involved start these rumors.
The Giants passing on a QB at #2 in this class is beyond negligent it’s moronic.
Moronic? I'll tell ya what's moronic, anyone here thinking they know better than the professionals paid by the Giants to make this pick.
If it's a QB then they feel it's best for the team. If they pass on one it's because they don't think they're all that most people are making them out to be.
I'll leave the scouting,research and all else up to their expertise, and I'll get behind the pick no matter who it is.
Sure it's fun discussing who we feel they should pick, and that's what drives these boards but stating who or what position they have to take in absolute terms is moronic IMO.
Zepp is clueless. This is the same dude that called all the QB's "scrubs." There are 5 QB's projected to go in the 1st round yet according to this due ALL OF THEM ARE SCRUBS. He wants Barkley and he'll make up anything to justify his opinion.
This is a franchise changing decision that will be made. You always take the guy that you believe will be a better player in 5 to 10 years. Darnold is that guy.
This is a franchise changing decision that will be made. You always take the guy that you believe will be a better player in 5 to 10 years. Darnold is that guy.
Not that i disagree...i just don't see what you see and would like to know why Darnold will be better in 5 years. I see your point with injuries, but based on your post you feel it is more than that. So, injuries aside for the sake of this discussion, what is it in Darnold's game that people are projecting will translate better down the road. Athletically Rosen tested better overall at the combine (which shocked me). He has a stronger arm and seems to be more suited for an NFL offense. Now Darnold may correct some of his footwork/delivery issues, but how does that make him better. Is tit that he throws better on the run? I am actually asking. I want to be excited if we draft Darnold, i just don't see it.
It’s mobility and being able to make plays on 3rd down. Watch the tape, Darnold can extend plays on 3rd down. I didn’t see it with Rosen.
You understand thats a two way street right?
And he’s only played 20 college games to he’s THE #1 pick of the draft 😳
All in a matter of 4 months
Can anyone answer that ?
And he’s only played 20 college games to he’s THE #1 pick of the draft 😳
All in a matter of 4 months
Can anyone answer that ?
Scouting and drafting is about projection. It’s about taking the guy you think will be a player for your team in season 3. Darnold is far from a finish product. But the traits you see (size,arm, accuracy, mobility, ability to extend plays, leadership) all translate to an above average NFL QB.
Do more Super Bowl winning QBs resemble Rosens style of play or Darnolds?
I say Rosens.
Can Brady not make plays on 3rd down? Is there someone with a higher ceiling the him?
They used to say Leaf had a "higher ceiling" then Peyton. Peyton basically had greatest statistical career for a QB and won 2 SBs for 2 different teams and went to 2 more. What does a higher ceiling than that look like?
Pocket QBs have won the lions share of the SBs. Ill stick with that until proven otherwise.
Do more Super Bowl winning QBs resemble Rosens style of play or Darnolds?
I say Rosens.
Can Brady not make plays on 3rd down? Is there someone with a higher ceiling the him?
They used to say Leaf had a "higher ceiling" then Peyton. Peyton basically had greatest statistical career for a QB and won 2 SBs for 2 different teams and went to 2 more. What does a higher ceiling than that look like?
Pocket QBs have won the lions share of the SBs. Ill stick with that until proven otherwise.
Well teams win Super Bowls, not individual players. But would you take Aaron Rodgers or Matt Ryan as your QB for the next 15 seasons? Who do you think gives you better chance to win?
Then that will be the best value pick in the draft...
Taken over? This IS a pro-Rosen thread.
Its been taken over by the Anti-Rosen lobbyists!
Rosen goes 1? - ( New Window )
[quote]...he'll have the opportunity to learn from Hue Jackson, who had been known for his abilities to get the most out of his young quarterbacks]
You mean like he did with the since traded Kizer. :}
Darnold has a lot of improving to do to catch up to Rosen.
We’ll see it soon. Darnold will not go 1 or 2.
Only way he goes affer Rosen is with a medical red flag on Rosen. If that medical issue isn’t real, there is no chance he is considered an inferior prospect.
Darnold has a lot of improving to do to catch up to Rosen.
We’ll see it soon. Darnold will not go 1 or 2.
Only way he goes affer Rosen is with a medical red flag on Rosen. If that medical issue isn’t real, there is no chance he is considered an inferior prospect.
Darnold will go 1 to the Browns.
This "I was told" shit is a new twist.
Or he is. Nobody but the Giants braintrust of Gettleman and Shurmur know at this point.
The Browns know he wants that too. It wouldn’t surprise me if the browns try to pull a San Diego and try to make the Giants pay for him
I’ll bet Dorsey and Gettleman are putting they’re big boy pants on for this one
Stay tuned.......
I’ve been thinking this as well. There’s a lot of weird shit going on in this draft.
If you're going to call someone a moron, at least know the difference between you're/your, know/no, and it's/its.
This will be my last reply to one of your posts. I don't see the point anymore.
just sayin...
The Browns know he wants that too. It wouldn’t surprise me if the browns try to pull a San Diego and try to make the Giants pay for him
I’ll bet Dorsey and Gettleman are putting they’re big boy pants on for this one
Stay tuned.......
Yes, it's important to distinguish facts from speculation here. We have no idea what the Giants evals are of the QBs. The journalist quotes about no QB are likely planted information -planted by the Giants- to secure a particular result.
The obvious one is that the Giants are trying to get the Browns to take Saquon #1 and not a QB (he won't be there at #4) because they have a QB they want and are concerned the Browns will take the same guy. But we are not sure how concerned -maybe only a little.
The Colts/Jets trade is another fact but the two FOs involved are in such disrepute - these guys aren't the Steekers scouts- that it's hard to say what value to put on that information. So the Jets like a QB. So what.
The public comment by Mora is another fact and it's baffling, frankly. I'm hard pressed to actually interpret what it means, because Mora was busy waffling in the aftermath, suggesting he may have misspoken.
Nikki- I think your interpretation that Mora said it to help Rosen slip by the Browns is marred by the fact that it could cause Risen to slide significantly in the draft, much farther than the #2 spot and potentially costing him a lot of money, Hence, I don't think it was planted by the Rosen group.
1. He didn’t say anything negative about Rosen. He said he was the best QB but said some BS about an underdog mentality with the Browns and the need to challenge Rosen. Was that really a knock on the player?
2. NFL doesn’t care about Mora”s opinion.
Nobody from the NFL has called Mora. Nobody. Not even one question from an actual NFL guy. He made a few comments to the press and the most telling comment Mora made was nobody from the NFL has asked him about Rosen.
They don’t care what Mora has to say abut the player. It isn’t part of any NFL teams evaulatuon process.
He isn’t respected by anybody in the NFL. He said he didn’t get one call from the NFL. Nobody called him to ask about Rosen. That probably says something about Mora.
Respected or not, I didn’t see anything negative about Rosen in his comments
“Opinions,” Rosen said, followed by the hashtag “ThingsPeopleTakeTooSeriously.”
Earlier in the day, Rosen went with “Why?” followed by #why.
As for Mora, if he had been a better coach maybe Rosen would have a Rose Bowl or two on his college resume.
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Respected or not, I didn’t see anything negative about Rosen in his comments
He didn't mean it to come off negative, but one could glean from his comments that Rosen was high maintenance and needed coddling. Apparently Rosen didn't like it one bit. From PFT..
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With the comments of his former head coach taking center stage throughout most of the day on Monday, quarterback Josh Rosen has chimed in with a couple of tweets.
“Opinions,” Rosen said, followed by the hashtag “ThingsPeopleTakeTooSeriously.”
Earlier in the day, Rosen went with “Why?” followed by #why.
Rosen might've been better advised to stay off social media altogether during the draft process, but who am I to say.
As for Mora, if he had been a better coach maybe Rosen would have a Rose Bowl or two on his college resume.
If Rosen had less space between his brain and his skull, he might even have a Cactus Bowl on his college resume.