I would say Darnold. The interceptions could still be a problem, but it seems like the strip sack issue could be corrected with coaching. He acknowledged at his pro day that he was placing a strong emphasis on keeping both hands on the ball before starting his throwing motion. His 21 fumbles the last few seasons have mostly been attributed to him holding the ball with one hand all the time.
"They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin' great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet"
I think if either of the latter really "put it together," they have the tools to be elite QB's.
Darnold seems like a guy who will wow at times but also frustrate with some poor decision-making, turnovers, etc.
"They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin' great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet"
Lol, I think the last line should be revised to “running from police on their nasty little feet”
Allen’s accuracy concerns me more than anything with the others.
I think if either of the latter really "put it together," they have the tools to be elite QB's.
Darnold seems like a guy who will wow at times but also frustrate with some poor decision-making, turnovers, etc.
Totally agree. I think Rosen probably has the best arm overall but he tends to take bad hits which could shorten his shelf life. Sometimes you have to chuck the ball away or get down which is what has kept Eli healthy for so many years.
If Phil Simms were evaluated by today's standards being thrown around on bbi, even after his second year in the league, he would be rated behind all three of the top prospects.
He was unable to stay healthy, a turn over machine, and had problems going through his progressions.
I guess if something is repeated enough it becomes reality in the eye of the fan base. But none of these quarterbacks are flawed to a point that they couldn't get better on the NFL level, just like Simms did.
By the way, go back and read the pre - draft stuff about a guy named Dan Marino.
If Phil Simms were evaluated by today's standards being thrown around on bbi, even after his second year in the league, he would be rated behind all three of the top prospects.
He was unable to stay healthy, a turn over machine, and had problems going through his progressions.
I guess if something is repeated enough it becomes reality in the eye of the fan base. But none of these quarterbacks are flawed to a point that they couldn't get better on the NFL level, just like Simms did.
By the way, go back and read the pre - draft stuff about a guy named Dan Marino.
Every player has red flags. The point of this post is what is everyone’s opinion in terms of which QB’s “perceived” red flags appear to be the least concerning. It’s possible some of these red flags don’t even materialize. For example, maybe Allen’s completion percentage sucked because of his WR’s. Who knows? We will in a few years.
Baker isn't getting taller.
Rosen won't get less fragile.
Allen's accuracy issues won't be fixed with coaching, based on NFL history.
If Phil Simms were evaluated by today's standards being thrown around on bbi, even after his second year in the league, he would be rated behind all three of the top prospects.
He was unable to stay healthy, a turn over machine, and had problems going through his progressions.
I guess if something is repeated enough it becomes reality in the eye of the fan base. But none of these quarterbacks are flawed to a point that they couldn't get better on the NFL level, just like Simms did.
By the way, go back and read the pre - draft stuff about a guy named Dan Marino.
Some red flags go away and others show their warts 10 times more at the NFL level.
Again, go back to Brian billick talking about Kyle boller. The ravens were desperate for a quarterback and scouted boller heavily. He had accuracy issues and because they were intent on drafting a quarterback they chalked up his inaccuracy to the talent around him. They kept excusing the red flags they saw and it bit them.
The browns, Broncos and jets have had a revolving door of 1st and 2nd round quarterbacks since 2004 (and are looking to draft another this year) because they have been fooling themselves with the "red flags"
I tend to agree, but I am feeling more and more like the Giants are taking a QB. Unless they are just holding out for the largest trade down offer they can get, which may be more lucrative on draft day.
I’m not sure Phil Simms would have had a very long career in issue NFL. The window of time these QB’s get to prove themselves has really narrowed, just the nature of the business I guess. Simms was not very good his first few years and had injury issues. It makes you wonder how many QB’s get bounced from the league or get designated as career backups in today’s league because they just didn’t get enough time to develop. We will see how he does this year, but Case Keenum may end up being a guy who was just a late bloomer.
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Giants would have selected Joe Montana .
I’m not sure Phil Simms would have had a very long career in issue NFL. The window of time these QB’s get to prove themselves has really narrowed, just the nature of the business I guess. Simms was not very good his first few years and had injury issues. It makes you wonder how many QB’s get bounced from the league or get designated as career backups in today’s league because they just didn’t get enough time to develop. We will see how he does this year, but Case Keenum may end up being a guy who was just a late bloomer.
Today’s NFL it should read in the first line, not issue
Don t really have an opinion regarding whose red flags are least alarming.
Personally I would be pleased with any of the three quarterbacks as their pick.
While he didn't go into the "run out of the back of the end zone thing", here is what Dan had to say...
Rosen - thinks very highly of him. So polished with footwork/mechanics/thought process that he is convinced he worked very hard to get to where he is, and expect that would continue in NFL. Kind of laughed at idea that his lifestyle is a negative.
Darnold - would pick him first even though he has mechanical flaws. Mostly because he makes so many plays even with poor footwork (and other items) so imagine what he can do if improves on that.
Mayfield - downplays the stupid things he has done mostly because of the efforts he puts in on field being able to dispel the doubters since he was a walk-on twice. Says he is not a Manziel at all. A real leader.
Allen - really criticized him mostly for not being an "aware" QB when he gets to the LOS (versus the inaccuracies). Red flags with this guy at the next level.
Jackson - basically said good luck with him, as he is simply going to get hurt a lot in the NFL the way he makes plays
While he didn't go into the "run out of the back of the end zone thing", here is what Dan had to say...
Rosen - thinks very highly of him. So polished with footwork/mechanics/thought process that he is convinced he worked very hard to get to where he is, and expect that would continue in NFL. Kind of laughed at idea that his lifestyle is a negative.
Darnold - would pick him first even though he has mechanical flaws. Mostly because he makes so many plays even with poor footwork (and other items) so imagine what he can do if improves on that.
Mayfield - downplays the stupid things he has done mostly because of the efforts he puts in on field being able to dispel the doubters since he was a walk-on twice. Says he is not a Manziel at all. A real leader.
Allen - really criticized him mostly for not being an "aware" QB when he gets to the LOS (versus the inaccuracies). Red flags with this guy at the next level.
Jackson - basically said good luck with him, as he is simply going to get hurt a lot in the NFL the way he makes plays
Jackson scares me, QB’s that rely heavily on the run never stay healthy. He hasn’t done himself any favors having his mom act as his agent either. I heard the other day on NFL Radio that one team called him seven times and was unable to reach him.
Allen is intriguing but for me it's darnold or Rosen if we go QB.
I'd go
Darnold
Barkley
Rosen
As my top 3
"They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin' great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet"
“They got little cars that go beep beep beep”
He's 37. He will be done soon if he's not already. I don't understand how people remain in denial about this. Even if you want to believe that Reese/McAdoo contributed to wasting the last few years of Eli's prime, we don't get those years back.
Eli's age is not a red flag; it's an indisputable fact. Father Time is still undefeated.
Back to where? Losing in the wild card round?
It's not about next year. It's about the next decade.
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and will have to sit for a couple of years. Want back in the mix now. We have Eli and Webb, a smart trade down from a strong position with a good draft could get us back next year.
Back to where? Losing in the wild card round?
It's not about next year. It's about the next decade.
And if you miss on this pick because you forced a QB pick and ignored these red flags then you are set back...for a decade.
Its not about setting yourself up for the next decade. Its about what is the quickest way to be able to compete NOW!
On the other hand, Rosen isn't going to suddenly become less accurate. Rosen isn't going to forget how to take snaps from center and execute play-action. Rosen isn't going to all of a sudden become lazy and ill-prepared. And he isn't going to shrink in height.
Rosen is the only one of the four that doesn't require guesswork. He will be a great NFL QB because he has already demonstrated his ability to play the NFL game and play it at a high level. The other three are a roll of the dice.
1 hit can end anyone’s career but Darnold has the body type and a pretty clean injury sheet. In addition to the concussions if Rosen doesn’t bulk up his overall durability is also a concern.
On the other hand, Rosen isn't going to suddenly become less accurate. Rosen isn't going to forget how to take snaps from center and execute play-action. Rosen isn't going to all of a sudden become lazy and ill-prepared. And he isn't going to shrink in height.
Rosen is the only one of the four that doesn't require guesswork. He will be a great NFL QB because he has already demonstrated his ability to play the NFL game and play it at a high level. The other three are a roll of the dice.
I get you have a serious boner for Rosen but you're off base here.
1. His injury history is a MAJOR concern. Knee, shoulder, etc. He is fragile and takes big hits often. He also isn't overly mobile therefore he has less escape ability and takes more shots.
2. He makes some pretty poor choices. While he is definitely the best QB passing wise of the group, his decision making has been flawed on several occasions
Point being, he isn't a perfect prospect(none are) but I think you're down playing his injury history big time and I also think you are down playing his other major flaw. Again Imo, best pure passer available but he has red flags that are just as big as every other. The injury one for me, could be the biggest
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You may feel that Rosen is the most likely to lose time via injury, but it's not like the others are immune from injury. In fact, it's entirely possible that Rosen will be the most injury-free of all of them throughout his NFL career.
On the other hand, Rosen isn't going to suddenly become less accurate. Rosen isn't going to forget how to take snaps from center and execute play-action. Rosen isn't going to all of a sudden become lazy and ill-prepared. And he isn't going to shrink in height.
Rosen is the only one of the four that doesn't require guesswork. He will be a great NFL QB because he has already demonstrated his ability to play the NFL game and play it at a high level. The other three are a roll of the dice.
I get you have a serious boner for Rosen but you're off base here.
1. His injury history is a MAJOR concern. Knee, shoulder, etc. He is fragile and takes big hits often. He also isn't overly mobile therefore he has less escape ability and takes more shots.
2. He makes some pretty poor choices. While he is definitely the best QB passing wise of the group, his decision making has been flawed on several occasions
Point being, he isn't a perfect prospect(none are) but I think you're down playing his injury history big time and I also think you are down playing his other major flaw. Again Imo, best pure passer available but he has red flags that are just as big as every other. The injury one for me, could be the biggest
Not trying to compare the two necessarily, but I remembered the last time I heard the media gushing about a certain QB being this amazing pure passer, etc. It was Ron Jaworski going on and on about how amazing Jay Cutler was and what a great career he would have. Well, he’s had a long career, but I would not call it a great one. The point is that we don’t really know shit about how good any of these guys will be in the NFL, and that includes all of these analyst geniuses. It’s a gamble no matter who you select.
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In comment 13904848 TMS said:
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and will have to sit for a couple of years. Want back in the mix now. We have Eli and Webb, a smart trade down from a strong position with a good draft could get us back next year.
Back to where? Losing in the wild card round?
It's not about next year. It's about the next decade.
And if you miss on this pick because you forced a QB pick and ignored these red flags then you are set back...for a decade.
Its not about setting yourself up for the next decade. Its about what is the quickest way to be able to compete NOW!
How are you set back for a decade? And newsflash: players at any position can bust and wash out.
The draft is not about now. That's a completely myopic (and incorrect) approach.
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In comment 13904947 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13904848 TMS said:
Quote:
and will have to sit for a couple of years. Want back in the mix now. We have Eli and Webb, a smart trade down from a strong position with a good draft could get us back next year.
Back to where? Losing in the wild card round?
It's not about next year. It's about the next decade.
And if you miss on this pick because you forced a QB pick and ignored these red flags then you are set back...for a decade.
Its not about setting yourself up for the next decade. Its about what is the quickest way to be able to compete NOW!
How are you set back for a decade? And newsflash: players at any position can bust and wash out.
The draft is not about now. That's a completely myopic (and incorrect) approach.
I think you are both right to some extent. The draft is really a combination of now and the future. If a coach has more than 2 consecutive losing seasons there’s a good chance he is gone. So it’s not like you can fold up shop and say ok great we will suck for two to three years now while this guy develops. The real question is how many years does Eli have left? Some think 2-3, some think 1, some think he is already done. Those in the 2-3 group clearly prefer a non QB pick. It’s all a matter of opinion. We will know which group Gettleman is in in a few weeks.
2-3? There is no three, IMO. Eli has two years remaining on his contract and is 37 years old already. He'll be 39 at the end of his contract, assuming he plays out the entirety of it. The idea that he plays beyond this contract is based in hopeful fandom, but it's not especially likely.
He'll be the highest paid player in NFL history at that point, with two Super Bowl victories and two SB MVPs on his resume. I think he probably retires at the end of this contract (or even after this season, potentially).
Unless the Giants really don't feel good about any of the QB prospects available to them at #2, they'd be taking an enormous risk by passing up an opportunity for a seamless succession plan.
p.s.--And who were the two young QBs who went down with torn ACLs this year? Hint: it was the mobile QBs who could make plays outside the pocket.
I get you have a serious boner for Rosen.
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I get you have a serious boner for Rosen.
It's actually really quite jovial.
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he isn't a perfect prospect(none are) but I think you're down playing his injury history big time and I also think you are down playing his other major flaw. Again Imo, best pure passer available but he has red flags that are just as big as every other. The injury one for me, could be the biggest
I agree that he isn't a perfect prospect and I accept that his injury history is one reason for that, but I stand by my comments above. And regardless of their injury history, nobody is a sure thing when it comes to the transition from college to the NFL, but Rosen seems to have all of the attributes to assure success: he is both football smart and book smart, he has a tremendous work ethic, he loves to compete, loves to learn, and he craves outside approval/admiration/respect. Couple all that with his natural talent and it's hard to imagine him not succeeding at a very high level.
The guy might end up being really good. Outside of the typical concerns with him that have been discussed at length on here I was really taken aback, as were many others, by his former coach saying he would draft Darnold over Rosen. I don’t think I have ever seen that happen before.
Darnold is the most likely Franchise QB in NYC imo....in this class.
Baker will have a better career outside of NY microscope.
Allen is riskiest
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Almost every analyst I have seen seems to think Darnold, Allen, and even Mayfield may be better prospects.
Don't go by the analysts you see, go by the analysts you read. The ones who appear on TV all have agents and are pushing the CAA narrative (CAA represents Allen and Darnold). If you look at what the analysts who don't have agents say, the rankings are quite different, with Rosen the favorite.
You must really like this guy, I think you will be disappointed on draft day, but you never know.
You must really like this guy, I think you will be disappointed on draft day, but you never know.
Rosen: play action and pocket
Rosen: eye discipline and patience
Rosen: Footwork
Rosen: Vertical Game
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You must really like this guy, I think you will be disappointed on draft day, but you never know.
Well there's a lot at stake if you're a longtime Giants fan and you believe Rosen will be a great QB. If you have the time and the interest, it's worth watching the below four videos from Matt Waldman (the first two are from last year, the bottom two are from a couple months ago)...
Rosen: play action and pocket
Rosen: eye discipline and patience
Rosen: Footwork
Rosen: Vertical Game
His skill set isn’t the issue, it’s his fragility.
You are crossing the obsession line at this point. Every point against Rosen has a counter point that makes it seem like he’s the best QB prospect to ever hit the NFL instead of actually having legitimate red flags.
I’m on board if he’s he pick as we’d have to assume our medical team is fine with the risk. But until that happens, his health is a massive red flag that can’t be swept under he rug or just glossed over.
His skill set isn’t the issue, it’s his fragility.