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Here is why I like a trade with Buffalo

IIT : 4/9/2018 12:21 pm
I'll start with a nugget from Bill L which I think is spot on:

Quote:
Think about it....If they take Chubb (or Darnold) with the #2 pick, then they certainly are going to go OL with the #34. I think an OG is a lock at the spot. SO, now they are down to their 3rd round pick as the first opportunity to go RB. There is no way in hell that there will be a 3rd round RB that will be "nearly as good as Barkley". That person does not exist. The real question is, by the time that you get to the 3rd round...at *best*...will that back give you more than Gallman. Likely not.


IF we take the Bills' two firsts and a 2019 first we have our cake and eat it too.

We use the 12 on a defensive or offensive lineman, and the 22 on Michel/Jones/Guice/Penny or whoever you like among the backs. Then back to the lines with our second.

If we manage to get the Bills to cough up their second this year as well then we flesh out the 3-4 with that pick.

Now we go into the season with an O-line, a running game, and a potentially elite defense for Eli's swan song.

Then in 2019 the staff will have had a year to look at Webb and if they don't like him we should have a top-5 pick to draft a new QB with because the Bills will finish at the bottom of the pile after starting the rookie QB they drafted with our number 2.

Oh yeah, and we'll have a second first in 2019 as well.

The Giants are set for now and later with this scenario, and imo, it's far, far more compelling than any of outcomes if we stay at two.
While Barkley is at the top  
The Dude : 4/9/2018 12:26 pm : link
I've read that the RB position is fairly deep this year.

I think recent drafts have shown its easier to scoop a serviceable RB in later rounds
We lose out on a more probable star player  
UConn4523 : 4/9/2018 12:27 pm : link
I hate the trade down with the Bills.
You're giving away the blue chip talent  
JonC : 4/9/2018 12:27 pm : link
we suffered to get.
Ideally I'd like to see Buffalo make an interim trade to the 5-9 range  
FranknWeezer : 4/9/2018 12:30 pm : link
So that then, when we pull the trigger to trade down to their spot, we are still in striking distance of a true blue-chipper after the 4 QB's are off the board, like Nelson, Chubb, Barkley (if he's still there) or Fitzpatrick. At 12, most of the top-tier meat is off the bone.

I guess the drawback to that is whether, after spending assets to get to that spot, Buffalo would have anything worthwhile left to trade to us in order to convince us to drop 3-7 spots from where we are.

Hmmm. Gimme about three more weeks to figure this out.
"There is depth at RB"  
Sy'56 : 4/9/2018 12:31 pm : link
There is no Barkley depth. It is him, or a significant downgrade
RE:  
Anakim : 4/9/2018 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13906304 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
There is no Barkley depth. It is him, or a significant downgrade


Gotta agree. It's Saquon and then it's everyone else. Saquon is the best player in this draft by a country mile.
Just because you have 2 first rd picks  
superspynyg : 4/9/2018 12:32 pm : link
doesn't mean you use them wisely.

would you rather have 2 serviceable players when you could have had a future all pro or franchise qb?
This dogma is bullshit  
IIT : 4/9/2018 12:32 pm : link
Quote:
We lose out on a more probable star player


Quote:
You're giving away the blue chip talent


We get our blue-chip, star player. We just have to wait until next year to get it with the Bills 2019 one.

It's delayed gratification. To say otherwise is nonsense unless you believe that 2018 is the only draft class that will produce star players.
RE: RE:  
Stan in LA : 4/9/2018 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13906306 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13906304 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


There is no Barkley depth. It is him, or a significant downgrade



Gotta agree. It's Saquon and then it's everyone else. Saquon is the best player in this draft by a country mile.

He may be the best athlete in the draft, but he is not the best football player by a country mile.
You don't know where the 2019 will be  
JonC : 4/9/2018 12:39 pm : link
you have the #2 overall pick in hand.

If you don't believe in any of the 2018 blue chips, so be it. I don't think the Giants (nor I) agree with it.
You don't draft like that  
ThatLimerickGuy : 4/9/2018 12:40 pm : link
Making a list of needs and trying to check them off like boxes. That's a fools errand and a good way for a GM to get fired.

Sure you may prioritize certain positions when creating a draft board but you really do have to take the best player left on your board.
It's obvious to me  
IIT : 4/9/2018 12:43 pm : link
Pick 12 + pick 22 + 2019 top ten pick (Bills rookie starter) and whatever else Gettleman gets will give the Giants significantly more than any one of the top picks in this class is ever likely to produce.
It's not about ticking boxes  
IIT : 4/9/2018 12:46 pm : link
It's about having confidence in your scouting staff and ability to make those picks count.

And if that's true it means you've filled your roster with more quality, young, affordable talent than would otherwise be possible.
RE: It's obvious to me  
figgy2989 : 4/9/2018 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13906336 IIT said:
Quote:
Pick 12 + pick 22 + 2019 top ten pick (Bills rookie starter) and whatever else Gettleman gets will give the Giants significantly more than any one of the top picks in this class is ever likely to produce.


The Bills are coming off a season in which they made the playoffs. What makes you so sure that pick will be a top 10? Plus they signed MCarron, so they do not have to go with a rookie QB right away.
I prefer a (theoretical) trade with Denver  
giants#1 : 4/9/2018 12:50 pm : link
- Move back to #5 and get Barkley or Chubb
- Extra 2nd/3rd picks this year can be used to address OL (particularly interior) and LB/DB
- Grab their 2019 1st which could be high if (when) Keenum reverts to his mediocre self.
Ok, Carnac  
JonC : 4/9/2018 12:54 pm : link
Quantity does not always outperform quality, I expect DG will use the #2 pick.
also  
JonC : 4/9/2018 1:03 pm : link
I don't see any way we get three #1's out of Buffalo, that's a fireable offense for Beane.
You've done a good job stating the case  
ij_reilly : 4/9/2018 1:06 pm : link
but the case is flawed. It's too easy to shoot it full of holes.

Well put, though.

Some teams might do it, but a smart team won't.

The Giants need blue chip talent.

That's the case whether someone is advocating QB or not.
This is still a league  
JonC : 4/9/2018 1:07 pm : link
where star QBs win the super bowl in most seasons, and you give you the best chance to win on a weekly basis. Von Miller played a pivotal role in a SB win.

If you covet a player at #2 and believe him a difference-maker, you pick him. If you don't, then so be it.

Dogma? It's fact.
We can  
Mr. Nickels : 4/9/2018 1:13 pm : link
trade down to 5 with Buffalo and still get Barkley there
RE: We can  
giants#1 : 4/9/2018 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13906402 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
trade down to 5 with Buffalo and still get Barkley there


Buffalo doesn't pick 5...
The Flawed Premise  
lax counsel : 4/9/2018 1:26 pm : link
With these trade down scenarios, is that the Giants are going to have to give up the first rounder they acquired this year and likely some of their own picks just to trade back up next year. What was the point of acquiring that pick if it's going to be used to get back to where the Giants are right now in what will likely be a year that's extremely light on high end qb talent?

Also, has the trade down then up next year crowd considered the scenario where Webb isn't the answer, and the Giants finish 7-9 or 8-8 and pick in the the teens, and the Buffalo pick is in the 20s. There's virtually no way the Giants are getting into the top 2 picks to take a qb they want. That assumes a team would want to trade with them at all. And if you dislike this years qb clas, you are going to be sickened by next years. The headliners are going to be guys who went back to school because they were projected to be mid round or later picks this year (see Lock and Finley) and a guy coming off of a gruesome kneee injury (Thornson). It's just hard to follow this logic of trading down only to attempt a trade up next year. Like it's just that simple.
And Barkley won't last to 5 either  
Tim in VA : 4/9/2018 1:27 pm : link
Cleveland will either pick him or trade down with someone who will. Bank on it
there are big assumptions in the premise  
JonC : 4/9/2018 1:32 pm : link
for sure.
Don't see Mara agreeing to any trade down scenario...  
GFAN52 : 4/9/2018 1:33 pm : link
Giants stay at #2. Who they decide on to take is the only open question.
Really?  
Doomster : 4/9/2018 1:38 pm : link
Here is why I like a trade with Buffalo
IIT : 12:21 pm

Quote:
Now we go into the season with an O-line, a running game, and a potentially elite defense for Eli's swan song.


We need three OLmen, a RB, and all the draft picks will be winners......

An Elite defense? Really?
Rapaport reporting within the hour  
shyster : 4/9/2018 1:48 pm : link
that Buffalo's top execs/coaches will fly to L.A. on Friday to work out Darnold rather than host him in Buffalo.

Denver (Elway and Joseph) made the same L.A. trip last Friday.

When you're top dog, you can make people come to you. Darnold did go to Cleveland.

Shows that Bills are aiming high, which is not news. Will also be interesting to see whether Darnold actually shows up in New Jersey for visits with Giants/Jets.
home cooking - ( New Window )
RE: RE:  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/9/2018 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13906306 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13906304 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


There is no Barkley depth. It is him, or a significant downgrade



Gotta agree. It's Saquon and then it's everyone else. Saquon is the best player in this draft by a country mile.


Saquon is descended from a royal line of master race nobility and all the other RBs are dirty peasants.
I'd consider it if Buffalo sweetened the pot.  
Giantgator : 4/9/2018 2:58 pm : link
If they want their QB this year, and by all accounts they do, make them pay. I'd want their two #1s and their two #2s. We would be picking 12, 22, 34, 53, 56, 66, 69, 108 & 139. That's 7 picks by the early third round. Our roster has a lot of holes, and with a solid draft we could plug a lot of them.
Trading down..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/9/2018 3:01 pm : link
to get two middling first round picks isn't worth it. Trading down and staying in the top 10 (preferably top 7) makes sense. Trading lower than that unless we get two first rounders, a 3rd and a first next year isn't worth it.
Probably too cute, but  
PEEJ : 4/9/2018 3:14 pm : link
if they traded down with Buffalo they could trade back up to 7-8 and still net a plus of draft assets
Some of you fellas  
Beezer : 4/9/2018 3:27 pm : link
have watched Draft Day a few too many times.

I don't think there's much chance the Giants trade out of the 2 spot. Too much riding on it for Gettleman. And seeing that there's a commitment to Eli, getting a near-surefire impact player that can/will help immediately (ie, NOT a quarterback to sit a year) at #2 seems like a given to me.

Of course, I'm right alongside all the other blind speculators.
RE: RE: RE:  
Anakim : 4/9/2018 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13906552 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 13906306 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 13906304 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


There is no Barkley depth. It is him, or a significant downgrade



Gotta agree. It's Saquon and then it's everyone else. Saquon is the best player in this draft by a country mile.



Saquon is descended from a royal line of master race nobility and all the other RBs are dirty peasants.


Not quite, but Saquon is the best player in the draft. There are a lot of quality RBs this year, but Saquon is by far the best and has the most potential.
Think we need a solid starter  
TMS : 4/9/2018 5:29 pm : link
with our first pick this year, not a bunch of gambles on development down the line players. Can we work this out and give DG the opportunity to get this team back. All for it . Believing ELI with a decent OL still has a lot left.
RE:  
Aloha Alan : 4/9/2018 7:01 pm : link
In comment 13906304 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
There is no Barkley depth. It is him, or a significant downgrade


Thank you, SY!!!

Exactly. Good talent after Barkley? Yes. Great talent that is Barkley? None like him. Period, and those who nit-pit his fault of trying to do too much, Coach Johnson will teach him to take what the "D" gives you and not possibly lose yardage.

That's the only fault I know about him.

RE: This is still a league  
Jay on the Island : 4/9/2018 7:41 pm : link
In comment 13906389 JonC said:
Quote:
where star QBs win the super bowl in most seasons, and you give you the best chance to win on a weekly basis. Von Miller played a pivotal role in a SB win.

If you covet a player at #2 and believe him a difference-maker, you pick him. If you don't, then so be it.

Dogma? It's fact.


There are quite a few that fail to grasp this concept. Some mention Foles to support their argument even though Wentz started the first 13 games and played at an MVP level which is one of the main reason's why they won the SB with home field advantage throughout.

Having a great QB significantly increases your odds to be a perennial contender. If they have an average starting QB (like a Bortles, Tyrod Taylor, Andy Dalton, Prescott, etc) then they had better have a top defense, running game, and special teams in order to make it to the playoffs.
RE: RE:  
Jay on the Island : 4/9/2018 7:46 pm : link
In comment 13907057 Aloha Alan said:
Quote:


Exactly. Good talent after Barkley? Yes. Great talent that is Barkley? None like him. Period, and those who nit-pit his fault of trying to do too much, Coach Johnson will teach him to take what the "D" gives you and not possibly lose yardage.

That's the only fault I know about him.


Barkley is without a doubt the top RB in this class. Sure he could be the next LaDanian Tomlinson but he isn't a flawless prospect. Several scouts have expressed concern about his running between tackles. Is he Tomlinson or Reggie Bush?
Only problem going back to #12  
TMS : 4/10/2018 1:02 pm : link
may not get us a solid instant starter in this draft. Which i think we have to get. Top six guys are that either on defense or offense, Not counting the QBs who will sit for two years. So how do we get that done if we trade down ?
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