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Rosen's visit today and tomorrow

GFAN52 : 4/10/2018 5:51 pm
Quote:

Rosen is next up in the parade of big-name prospects to meet with the Giants at their training facility following such candidates for the No. 2 overall pick as North Carolina State defensive end Bradley Chubb, Penn State running back Saquon Barkley and Oklahoma quarterback Baker Mayfield.

Georgia linebacker Roquan Smith was also among those visiting with the Giants on Tuesday, a source confirmed. Smith could be an option later in the Top 10 if general manager Dave Gettleman decides to trade the No. 2 pick for a potential haul of assets. He also met formally with the Giants at the Combine in Indianapolis.

The Giants are also bringing USC quarterback Sam Darnold and Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen in for Top 30 visits, which could take place as soon as later this week.

Rosen is widely considered the most polished passer in the Class of 2018, but his personality off the field has made him somewhat of a polarizing prospect. He will head to dinner with Giants coaches and team personnel Tuesday night, then hit the Quest Diagnostics Training Center on Wednesday for a day full of meetings, likely some X's and O's work on the board and a general tour of the facility.

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I don t know why  
joeinpa : 4/10/2018 6:29 pm : link
Maybe it s because this is the one guy you hear the Giants are not interested in. But I wouldn't be shocked if this is the guy they take.
I still think Rosen is the guy to take.  
Since1965 : 4/10/2018 6:42 pm : link
I know that scouts claim that Allen and Darnold may have a higher ceiling, but it isn't a given that they can change their mechanics and improve. Rosen is the best out there right now, and apparently is fundamentally sound. I hope that's the direction they go in.
So lets see  
twostepgiants : 4/10/2018 6:54 pm : link
Giants met with Rosen at combine

Giants have contingent of Shurmur, Shula, Abrams & Chris Mara plus head scout at his Pro Day

Giants have John Mara & Steve Tisch go to dinner with him (we couldnt get Mara on building for Eli benching and Tisch sat in one 1 HC interview)

Now a second 2-Days with Rosen including another dinner with coaches & personnel.

Rosen probably will have dined with our entire organization

But the Giants arent intetested in him? OKay
Slight correction  
Colin@gbn : 4/10/2018 7:25 pm : link
I am with you two step. I have been chuckling a little all spring when I hear people saying the Giants haven't tipped their hand etc. Fact is they have spent more time and resources than any other team in the league checking out the QBs and the QB they have checked out the most is Rosen.

One quick update on the timeline. Shula went with a group that reportedly included 4 other scouts to Rosen's pro day. The Shuumer, Abrams group (which I also believe included several other scouts) went to a private workout with Rosen in LA.

Other than that they've barely given the guy a second look!
RE: Slight correction  
Giants34 : 4/10/2018 7:45 pm : link
In comment 13908447 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
I am with you two step. I have been chuckling a little all spring when I hear people saying the Giants haven't tipped their hand etc. Fact is they have spent more time and resources than any other team in the league checking out the QBs and the QB they have checked out the most is Rosen.

One quick update on the timeline. Shula went with a group that reportedly included 4 other scouts to Rosen's pro day. The Shuumer, Abrams group (which I also believe included several other scouts) went to a private workout with Rosen in LA.

Other than that they've barely given the guy a second look!


But Colin, a report came out saying that they hated Rosen even before he came to the facility for a private workout.

But seriously, I can't stand the press reports this time of year, because I don't think the beat writers have a clue, so they are writing whatever they can get their hands on. Always good to see you on here contributing to the conversation!
RE: Slight correction  
Brown Recluse : 4/10/2018 7:55 pm : link
In comment 13908447 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
I am with you two step. I have been chuckling a little all spring when I hear people saying the Giants haven't tipped their hand etc. Fact is they have spent more time and resources than any other team in the league checking out the QBs and the QB they have checked out the most is Rosen.

One quick update on the timeline. Shula went with a group that reportedly included 4 other scouts to Rosen's pro day. The Shuumer, Abrams group (which I also believe included several other scouts) went to a private workout with Rosen in LA.

Other than that they've barely given the guy a second look!


I think they have to put more time and resources into Rosen though. Between him and Darnold, hes the one with the most red flags. I think everyone is pretty much in agreement with what Darnold is. But Rosen is by far the more polarizing of the two. So it makes sense they’d spend more time on him. Doesnt necessarily mean he’s their preference, or that thry even have one yet.
The questions that follow Rosen have to do with his personality  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/10/2018 8:04 pm : link
So it makes sense that there's a bit more due diligence.

But after a certain point, this sounds a bit more like wining and dining than trying to figure out who he is. You generally don't need 3-5 dates to figure out if you like someone.
'scouts claim that Allen and Darnold may have a higher ceiling'...  
Torrag : 4/10/2018 8:06 pm : link
...I'm in the Darnold first among the QB camps but the above statement isn't the narrative going on. The difference between Darnold and Rosen/Allen isn't 'ceiling' it's 'floor'. Darnold is the cleanest and therefore the safest while maibtaining a high ceiling as well which makes drafting him very attractive.
We need to remember  
twostepgiants : 4/10/2018 8:06 pm : link
The Colts decided on Draft Day betwee Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf.

The idea that this pick is set in stone or that they are not interested in one of them with 16 days out is not possible to me.
RE: RE: Slight correction  
section125 : 4/10/2018 8:10 pm : link
In comment 13908488 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 13908447 Colin@gbn said:


Quote:


I am with you two step. I have been chuckling a little all spring when I hear people saying the Giants haven't tipped their hand etc. Fact is they have spent more time and resources than any other team in the league checking out the QBs and the QB they have checked out the most is Rosen.

One quick update on the timeline. Shula went with a group that reportedly included 4 other scouts to Rosen's pro day. The Shuumer, Abrams group (which I also believe included several other scouts) went to a private workout with Rosen in LA.



I think they have to put more time and resources into Rosen though. Between him and Darnold, hes the one with the most red flags. I think everyone is pretty much in agreement with what Darnold is. But Rosen is by far the more polarizing of the two. So it makes sense they’d spend more time on him. Doesn't necessarily mean he’s their preference, or that thEy even have one yet.


I think the red flags are in people's minds, not necessarily the Giants minds. I think the concussions are a concern. I don't think anything else is.
Darnold has more red flags in his game than Rosen, Mechanics, lack of time under center, fumbles, general QB play, etc.

Players will have flags real and imagined by fans who support one player or another.


Damn shame  
mrvax : 4/10/2018 8:12 pm : link
the Giants didn't take Milton with them.
Are there any medical checks performed during these team visits?  
GFAN52 : 4/10/2018 8:22 pm : link
Or do they rely on what was provided at the Combine?
Rosen is going to be a JET  
ThatLimerickGuy : 4/10/2018 8:29 pm : link
Book it. Stop for a second and think outside the box about who the people making the decisions are and what their motivations are. This is the best indicator.

1. Browns - Allen. Hue Jackson is getting fired if the Browns have another dismal season. What will save him is a 6-10 or better season where a young QB comes in midway and shows raw promise. Allen is that guy who Hue can say "I told you I need 2 years to mold this kid". The new GM is also supposedly enamored with Allen's raw ability. Look at what Dorsey has done in his career- last year he fell in love with the Raw QB in Mahomes, and even going back to the Packers when he was Director of Scouting he was part of grabbing Rodgers who was also seen as somewhat of a raw prospect at the time and who Dorsey knew needed some seasoning.

2. Darnold - Giants. The Giants know from 14 years of Eli the value of a) durability and b) having a Captain America - Mr. Clean QB. Somebody who doesn't rock the boat. A calm ship coasting through a storm. Put differently, the Giants are likely the most if not one of the most conservative organizations in sports. Darnold is the All-American put your head down and work all world QB. Yes he is also very raw and needs some NFL coaching and an NFL weight room but Darnold is the safest pick by far in this draft for the Giants. Shurmur and Gettleman know they are safe and sound and can move a 20 year old kid along slowly and groom him without ruining him by throwing him to the wolves. For an org that plays it safe this is a dream come true.

3. Rosen- Jets. This guy has JETS all over him. Bowles and Mcaganann are out if the Jets spit the bit this year but they know that they need to do their jobs and plan for both the present and the future. Rosen can play day 1- and the potential for an Andrew Luck type rookie debut season is there. That saves both Bowles and Mcagannan. The Jets are also not going to care that Rosen is outspoken, they actually prefer that if it gets them onto the back pages. They also are the prototypical franchise to deter from the safe play and go for the shiny toy in the window. That's Rosen.

RE: Rosen is going to be a JET  
GFAN52 : 4/10/2018 8:49 pm : link
In comment 13908528 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
Book it. Stop for a second and think outside the box about who the people making the decisions are and what their motivations are. This is the best indicator.

1. Browns - Allen. Hue Jackson is getting fired if the Browns have another dismal season. What will save him is a 6-10 or better season where a young QB comes in midway and shows raw promise. Allen is that guy who Hue can say "I told you I need 2 years to mold this kid". The new GM is also supposedly enamored with Allen's raw ability. Look at what Dorsey has done in his career- last year he fell in love with the Raw QB in Mahomes, and even going back to the Packers when he was Director of Scouting he was part of grabbing Rodgers who was also seen as somewhat of a raw prospect at the time and who Dorsey knew needed some seasoning.

2. Darnold - Giants. The Giants know from 14 years of Eli the value of a) durability and b) having a Captain America - Mr. Clean QB. Somebody who doesn't rock the boat. A calm ship coasting through a storm. Put differently, the Giants are likely the most if not one of the most conservative organizations in sports. Darnold is the All-American put your head down and work all world QB. Yes he is also very raw and needs some NFL coaching and an NFL weight room but Darnold is the safest pick by far in this draft for the Giants. Shurmur and Gettleman know they are safe and sound and can move a 20 year old kid along slowly and groom him without ruining him by throwing him to the wolves. For an org that plays it safe this is a dream come true.

3. Rosen- Jets. This guy has JETS all over him. Bowles and Mcaganann are out if the Jets spit the bit this year but they know that they need to do their jobs and plan for both the present and the future. Rosen can play day 1- and the potential for an Andrew Luck type rookie debut season is there. That saves both Bowles and Mcagannan. The Jets are also not going to care that Rosen is outspoken, they actually prefer that if it gets them onto the back pages. They also are the prototypical franchise to deter from the safe play and go for the shiny toy in the window. That's Rosen.


I'm still confident that the Browns in end go with a safe pick of Darnold at 1. What the Giants do (Chubb, Barkley, ???) I have no idea. I don't see a trade-down as very likely. But that still leaves Rosen to the Jets if the Giants pass on him.
I think he’s a definite contender  
Oscar : 4/10/2018 8:54 pm : link
But I also think they absolutely have to evaluate all four QB’s thoroughly, even if they really feel they don’t want a QB. If they trade out of the second pick and the guy the other team takes ends up being Dan Marino it will be remembered forever. They have to be as sure as they can be either way.
RE: I think he’s a definite contender  
section125 : 4/10/2018 8:59 pm : link
In comment 13908591 Oscar said:
Quote:
But I also think they absolutely have to evaluate all four QB’s thoroughly, even if they really feel they don’t want a QB. If they trade out of the second pick and the guy the other team takes ends up being Dan Marino it will be remembered forever. They have to be as sure as they can be either way.


It won't be if the guy they choose is Jim Brown or Michael Strahan......
RE: Rosen is going to be a JET  
Essex : 4/10/2018 9:00 pm : link
In comment 13908528 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
Book it. Stop for a second and think outside the box about who the people making the decisions are and what their motivations are. This is the best indicator.

1. Browns - Allen. Hue Jackson is getting fired if the Browns have another dismal season. What will save him is a 6-10 or better season where a young QB comes in midway and shows raw promise. Allen is that guy who Hue can say "I told you I need 2 years to mold this kid". The new GM is also supposedly enamored with Allen's raw ability. Look at what Dorsey has done in his career- last year he fell in love with the Raw QB in Mahomes, and even going back to the Packers when he was Director of Scouting he was part of grabbing Rodgers who was also seen as somewhat of a raw prospect at the time and who Dorsey knew needed some seasoning.

2. Darnold - Giants. The Giants know from 14 years of Eli the value of a) durability and b) having a Captain America - Mr. Clean QB. Somebody who doesn't rock the boat. A calm ship coasting through a storm. Put differently, the Giants are likely the most if not one of the most conservative organizations in sports. Darnold is the All-American put your head down and work all world QB. Yes he is also very raw and needs some NFL coaching and an NFL weight room but Darnold is the safest pick by far in this draft for the Giants. Shurmur and Gettleman know they are safe and sound and can move a 20 year old kid along slowly and groom him without ruining him by throwing him to the wolves. For an org that plays it safe this is a dream come true.

3. Rosen- Jets. This guy has JETS all over him. Bowles and Mcaganann are out if the Jets spit the bit this year but they know that they need to do their jobs and plan for both the present and the future. Rosen can play day 1- and the potential for an Andrew Luck type rookie debut season is there. That saves both Bowles and Mcagannan. The Jets are also not going to care that Rosen is outspoken, they actually prefer that if it gets them onto the back pages. They also are the prototypical franchise to deter from the safe play and go for the shiny toy in the window. That's Rosen.


I am sorry but this just plain silly. Hue Jackson isn’t picking the Browns pick, Dorsey is and he is going to be there for a long time. This post seems like wishful thinking rather than “thinking outside the box.”
RE: Rosen is going to be a JET  
Jarvis : 4/10/2018 9:04 pm : link
In comment 13908528 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
Book it. Stop for a second and think outside the box about who the people making the decisions are and what their motivations are. This is the best indicator.



2. Darnold - Giants. The Giants know from 14 years of Eli the value of a) durability and b) having a Captain America - Mr. Clean QB. Somebody who doesn't rock the boat. A calm ship coasting through a storm. Put differently, the Giants are likely the most if not one of the most conservative organizations in sports. Darnold is the All-American put your head down and work all world QB. Yes he is also very raw and needs some NFL coaching and an NFL weight room but Darnold is the safest pick by far in this draft for the Giants. Shurmur and Gettleman know they are safe and sound and can move a 20 year old kid along slowly and groom him without ruining him by throwing him to the wolves. For an org that plays it safe this is a dream come true.




The narrative has changed over the years. When we drafted Eli he was far from Mr. All-American, keep your head down, no controversy prospect. At the time he was on the cover of every paper about being the brother an son of great NFL players, "refusing" to play for the Chargers, threatening to sit out if he was. He was looked at as NFL royalty. Could he live up to Peyton? etc etc. In fact, a negativity surrounded him for many years just due to these issues.
He was also a punching bag for appearing to be meek  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/10/2018 9:06 pm : link
and not capable of leading a team.
The Giants were probably just hoping that Rosen  
Bill L : 4/10/2018 9:07 pm : link
Didn’t go to dinner incognito.
RE: RE: Rosen is going to be a JET  
AcidTest : 4/10/2018 9:17 pm : link
In comment 13908606 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 13908528 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


Book it. Stop for a second and think outside the box about who the people making the decisions are and what their motivations are. This is the best indicator.

1. Browns - Allen. Hue Jackson is getting fired if the Browns have another dismal season. What will save him is a 6-10 or better season where a young QB comes in midway and shows raw promise. Allen is that guy who Hue can say "I told you I need 2 years to mold this kid". The new GM is also supposedly enamored with Allen's raw ability. Look at what Dorsey has done in his career- last year he fell in love with the Raw QB in Mahomes, and even going back to the Packers when he was Director of Scouting he was part of grabbing Rodgers who was also seen as somewhat of a raw prospect at the time and who Dorsey knew needed some seasoning.

2. Darnold - Giants. The Giants know from 14 years of Eli the value of a) durability and b) having a Captain America - Mr. Clean QB. Somebody who doesn't rock the boat. A calm ship coasting through a storm. Put differently, the Giants are likely the most if not one of the most conservative organizations in sports. Darnold is the All-American put your head down and work all world QB. Yes he is also very raw and needs some NFL coaching and an NFL weight room but Darnold is the safest pick by far in this draft for the Giants. Shurmur and Gettleman know they are safe and sound and can move a 20 year old kid along slowly and groom him without ruining him by throwing him to the wolves. For an org that plays it safe this is a dream come true.

3. Rosen- Jets. This guy has JETS all over him. Bowles and Mcaganann are out if the Jets spit the bit this year but they know that they need to do their jobs and plan for both the present and the future. Rosen can play day 1- and the potential for an Andrew Luck type rookie debut season is there. That saves both Bowles and Mcagannan. The Jets are also not going to care that Rosen is outspoken, they actually prefer that if it gets them onto the back pages. They also are the prototypical franchise to deter from the safe play and go for the shiny toy in the window. That's Rosen.




I am sorry but this just plain silly. Hue Jackson isn’t picking the Browns pick, Dorsey is and he is going to be there for a long time. This post seems like wishful thinking rather than “thinking outside the box.”


The Browns haven't had a decent QB since Bernie Kosar. Can they really afford to take a chance on Allen's "upside" when he is so inaccurate?

I agree the Giants would probably take Darnold, although I wouldn't. The Jets? Who knows? Rosen is certainly possible, but there are rumors they like Mayfield.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants drafted Bugs Bunny.
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