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| Accorsi recently served as a consultant for Mara and co-owner Steve Tisch in the general manager search that brought Dave Gettleman back into the fold. Though Accorsi is not advising Gettleman on the most important draft-day decision for the franchise since Manning came aboard, with the Giants owning the No. 2 overall pick in this year’s draft, he certainly has a vested interest and also a warning. If it is to be a quarterback, Accorsi cautioned, make sure the one you take is the one you love, deeply and unwaveringly. “If you’re gonna pick a quarterback high, you’ve got to believe in your heart that he can win a championship,’’ Accorsi said. “You have all these checklists on measurables — there’s no question they’re important — but when it comes right down to it, you’ve got to feel it. “If I don’t think this guy can win a championship, I’m not gonna have a conviction. You have to believe that. If you don’t believe that then don’t pick a quarterback high. Because if you’re wrong, it could set you back — this may sound like an exaggeration — it could set you back 8-10 years. Because you’re gonna play him, very rarely do they play well the first two or three years. You’re not gonna know, is he just adjusting or is he a bust? You’re gonna have to give him time.’’ This is what the Giants must consider when analyzing Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield. They are all intriguing, but will there be that conviction on any of them? Accorsi said he believes the criteria Gettleman established for the No. 2 pick — you must be able to project the player as a future Hall of Famer and that he must be deemed worthy of the second-overall selection in any draft — are sound. Accorsi has watched the quarterback prospects in this draft but has not studied them the way the Giants have and continue to do. “You can’t draft by the curve at quarterback,’’ Accorsi said. “If it happens to be one of those drafts where there’s only one great player, you can’t invent one if you’re picking 2. There may be a draft you do have that worry. This draft I don’t think you have that worry. “Dave’s got more options than I had. He’s got a bunch of options. He can go a lot of different directions.’’ Running back Saquon Barkley, defensive end Bradley Chubb and guard Quenton Nelson are widely viewed as can’t-miss prospects. These riches were not available to Accorsi in 2004. If he had not been able to secure Manning or Roethlisberger, the next player he coveted was receiver Larry Fitzgerald, who went No. 3 to the Cardinals. “There weren’t a lot of options after that,’’ Accorsi said. |
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In comment 13909092 WillVAB said:
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In comment 13908851 UberAlias said:
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But at the end of the day DG is going to own his decision. If they pass up on a franchise QB or two for a good DE or very good OG but struggle to find an answer at QB, the NY press who are all on board now are going to turn on him like dogs watching they guy they should have taken winning games in green.
They will turn on him if he drafts a QB who ends up busting while running Eli out of town in the process. Even moreso if Eli has success with another team.
It’s a tough spot for DG but it’s easier to justify your scenario than mine. People will get fired in my scenario.
Perhaps, but you don't make decisions on opportunities such as this with a mindset of "what we can justify". You do what is right. This is a great opportunity here and the goal is to win superbowls, not just to justify your position or keep things respectable.
Both the GM and HC were fired the last time they were in their respective positions. They’re going to try to win now if they believe the framework is in place to win.
It doesn’t do them any good to draft a QB for the next GM/HC.
By that logic, no GM/HC would ever draft a QB unless they were firmly established with their current franchise. Except that it would be almost impossible for them to reach that established status without a long-term solution at QB.
Your argument makes zero sense.
The overwhelming evidence points to needing a very strong, established QB, and in the absence of that, a unit that is absolutely world class to win a SB.
Using McCown as an example that would be a wise move not only ignores history, it seemingly ignores logic too.
But is anyone actually trying to build a team in a different way? Recently some teams have won Super Bowls or come very close with a guy who would not have been considered a franchise QB at the time:
2017: Philly with Foles
2015: Denver with forked Manning
2013 & 2014: Seattle should have won both with Wilson only in his 2nd and 3rd seasons
2012: Flacco in rookie contract; Kaepernick (who would have won if Jim Harbaugh weren't a pussy) in his first year as starter
I'm all for drafting quarterbacks with premium picks if they merit it, just like any other position. The question, to me, comes when it comes time to pay them the huge contract. IMO this happens too often because teams force the issue at the position: paying a guy franchise money doesn't mean he's going to win you anything, or that he will win for you once he is no longer a high value commodity on a rookie contract.
The league is full of albatross quarterback contracts, and IMO they fall into two categories:
1) The team is hoping the quarterback will grow into someone who can carry a team to a title.
2) The team's excellent roster took a hit because it is paying a quarterback that is incapable of carrying the greater load required with the huge contract.
Some examples of category 1 would be Garoppolo ($37M), Stafford ($26.5M), Carr ($25M), and Cousins ($24M).
The two primary examples I can think of in category 2 would be Flacco ($24.7M) and Wilson ($24M). Their teams' fortunes turned for the worse the moment they paid those franchise quarterbacks.
Not funny!
The two primary examples I can think of in category 2 would be Flacco ($24.7M) and Wilson ($24M). Their teams' fortunes turned for the worse the moment they paid those franchise quarterbacks.
I think these two are opposites. Joe Flacco's been thoroughly mediocre and that contract was a blatant "thanks for the title/too scared to move on" type of deal. Russell Wilson is certainly earning his money. The offense around him was botched by a lack of competence on the OL that rivals the Giants approach. And parts of their awesome defense got old and injured.
I think they’re fine, but their job is to win games — and the heat is on to win games sooner rather than later. It doesn’t make sense to draft the QB for 2-3 years from now if they could be on the hot seat before he even hits his stride.
It all comes down to what they truly think of Eli. If they really think he can still play well and win, they go in another direction on draft day. If the Eli rhetoric is false or smoke, they’ll go qb.
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If you think that than they hired the wrong men for the job and we have bigger troubles. These are successful confident men, not frightened children scared of failure.
I think they’re fine, but their job is to win games — and the heat is on to win games sooner rather than later. It doesn’t make sense to draft the QB for 2-3 years from now if they could be on the hot seat before he even hits his stride.
It all comes down to what they truly think of Eli. If they really think he can still play well and win, they go in another direction on draft day. If the Eli rhetoric is false or smoke, they’ll go qb.
The Giants have finished below .500 in 4 of the past 5 years, and have lost 10 or more games in 3 of the past 4. Some of that was the result of chasing a contender status that they just weren't fundamentally built to actually achieve.
I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but we should hope like hell that the heat is not on. We should hope that this regime gets enough latitude and patience to actually build a consistent winning program, and taking shortcuts to churn out a winner in 2018 rather than building the foundation for the next era of Giants football would be a mistake, IMO.
Would anyone be dissatisfied with a 7 or 8 win season this year that shows promise by being in every game, playing exciting football, and - potentially - having Eli's successor on the roster? That's an outcome I'd be pretty excited about.
It's interesting to note their pass/run ratios, points scored, and W-L since Wilson has been in the league:
2012: 405/536, 412 points, 11-5
2013: 420/509, 417, 13-3 (SB Champs)
2014: 454/525, 394, 12-4 (should have been SB Champs, but game was taken out of Lynch's hands and put in Wilson's)
***Wilson is paid 4 yr, $87.6M extension after playing 3 seasons on a 4 yr, $3M contract***
2015: 489/500, 423 10-6
2016: 567/403, 354 10-5-1
2017: 555/409, 366 9-7
In the three years since Wilson got paid, the offense has been placed on his shoulders to a greater degree. The result has been fewer points scored and fewer games won.
Sure there are many moving parts besides just Wilson, but surely this shift (both on the field and in the salary cap structure) has played a role.
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In comment 13909824 UberAlias said:
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If you think that than they hired the wrong men for the job and we have bigger troubles. These are successful confident men, not frightened children scared of failure.
I think they’re fine, but their job is to win games — and the heat is on to win games sooner rather than later. It doesn’t make sense to draft the QB for 2-3 years from now if they could be on the hot seat before he even hits his stride.
It all comes down to what they truly think of Eli. If they really think he can still play well and win, they go in another direction on draft day. If the Eli rhetoric is false or smoke, they’ll go qb.
The Giants have finished below .500 in 4 of the past 5 years, and have lost 10 or more games in 3 of the past 4. Some of that was the result of chasing a contender status that they just weren't fundamentally built to actually achieve.
I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but we should hope like hell that the heat is not on. We should hope that this regime gets enough latitude and patience to actually build a consistent winning program, and taking shortcuts to churn out a winner in 2018 rather than building the foundation for the next era of Giants football would be a mistake, IMO.
Would anyone be dissatisfied with a 7 or 8 win season this year that shows promise by being in every game, playing exciting football, and - potentially - having Eli's successor on the roster? That's an outcome I'd be pretty excited about.
Yea and during that time the Giants have changed GMs once and HCs twice. Our current GM was fired before coming here and Shurmur was fired from his last HC gig. They know they aren’t going to have a 5 year leash to turn this around. Hell TC was on the hot seat in ‘07 in year 4 coming off two consecutive playoff appearances.
I don’t think ownership and management think this team is devoid of talent like many fans here think. That being the case, if the drafts don’t turn around quickly along w the performance on the field both DG and Shurmur could find themselves on the hot seat quicker than people think.
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In comment 13910045 WillVAB said:
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In comment 13909824 UberAlias said:
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If you think that than they hired the wrong men for the job and we have bigger troubles. These are successful confident men, not frightened children scared of failure.
I think they’re fine, but their job is to win games — and the heat is on to win games sooner rather than later. It doesn’t make sense to draft the QB for 2-3 years from now if they could be on the hot seat before he even hits his stride.
It all comes down to what they truly think of Eli. If they really think he can still play well and win, they go in another direction on draft day. If the Eli rhetoric is false or smoke, they’ll go qb.
The Giants have finished below .500 in 4 of the past 5 years, and have lost 10 or more games in 3 of the past 4. Some of that was the result of chasing a contender status that they just weren't fundamentally built to actually achieve.
I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but we should hope like hell that the heat is not on. We should hope that this regime gets enough latitude and patience to actually build a consistent winning program, and taking shortcuts to churn out a winner in 2018 rather than building the foundation for the next era of Giants football would be a mistake, IMO.
Would anyone be dissatisfied with a 7 or 8 win season this year that shows promise by being in every game, playing exciting football, and - potentially - having Eli's successor on the roster? That's an outcome I'd be pretty excited about.
Yea and during that time the Giants have changed GMs once and HCs twice. Our current GM was fired before coming here and Shurmur was fired from his last HC gig. They know they aren’t going to have a 5 year leash to turn this around. Hell TC was on the hot seat in ‘07 in year 4 coming off two consecutive playoff appearances.
I don’t think ownership and management think this team is devoid of talent like many fans here think. That being the case, if the drafts don’t turn around quickly along w the performance on the field both DG and Shurmur could find themselves on the hot seat quicker than people think.
That five-year leash takes them 40% to Eli's 50th birthday. They'll take a QB.