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Eli Manning and the Giants selecting QB at #2...

M.S. : 4/11/2018 8:07 am
...several questions/issues come to mind:

(1) By not trading the #2 selection, the Giants make it that much harder to re-stock their O-line with multiple premium picks. Will we be throwing Eli back out there with an improved (but hardly ready-for-primetime) O-line?

(2) In other words, will the Giants get the most out of Eli while his successor (Rosen, Darnold or someone else) is groomed on the sidelines?

(3) If the Giants goal is to win-with-Eli, does that increase the odds the Giants would want to trade out of #2 in order to pick up several premium picks for the O-line?

(4) Bottom line: Are the Giants facing the irreconcilable goals of both finding Eli's eventual successor and also winning now with Eli?

(5) Or, does "winning now" really mean: (a) let's find Eli's successor pronto; and (b) let Eli start because at least we should be "respectable" and certainly better than 3-13?

LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/11/2018 8:09 am : link
Is this today's version of 5 supposed questions to answer regarding Eli??

Quote:
Which of these statements about Eli in 2017...
M.S. : 4/9/2018 8:47 am
...do you agree/disagree with?

(1) No NFL QB (including Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers) could have done very much with the Giants offense last season, and -- at best -- they may have led the Giants to only one or two additional victories;

(2) At some point in season (after a few heart-breaking early divisional losses and the loss of OBJ), Eli went into survival mode more so than in past seasons;

(3) Given the circumstances of the team in general and the offense in particular, Eli's performance really wasn't that bad at all given that he passed for nearly 3,500 yards and 19 TDs while passing at over a 60% completion rate;

(4) It just seemed that Eli couldn't (or wouldn't) go that extra mile to extend a play or maybe eke out an impossible first down or pull a rabbit out of his hat to win one or two more games;

(5) 2017 was an aberration for Eli, and with an improved front line and OBJ back at full health, we can expect much better football out of Eli in 2018.

Which statements do you agree/disagree with?

Thanks in advance.


fucking ponderous.
Ponderous  
section125 : 4/11/2018 8:12 am : link
or repetitive....

or both ponderous and repetitive?
can't wait for this fucking draft to be over.  
Victor in CT : 4/11/2018 8:12 am : link
next up: "Why the Giants should keep/trade OBJ"
The purpose of the draft is to make the team better  
Mike from Ohio : 4/11/2018 8:58 am : link
not try and win one for the Gipper. Once you understand that all of these questions are answered.
Well, then,  
Doomster : 4/11/2018 8:59 am : link
why don't we shut the board down then? Because at this time of the year, were are in the doldrums of football news and speculation is rampant....I'm sure Eric would be happy to stop posting such ponderous and repetitive posts....and yet you guys respond to such ponderous and repetitive posts....shame on you guys for being just as ponderous and repetitive...
as soon as the draft is over  
Rocky369 : 4/11/2018 9:01 am : link
Leonard or some other schmuck will headline an article, How the Giants Blew the Draft by not Moving OBJ.
RE: LOL..  
M.S. : 4/11/2018 9:19 am : link
In comment 13908926 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Is this today's version of 5 supposed questions to answer regarding Eli??



Quote:


Which of these statements about Eli in 2017...
M.S. : 4/9/2018 8:47 am
...do you agree/disagree with?

(1) No NFL QB (including Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers) could have done very much with the Giants offense last season, and -- at best -- they may have led the Giants to only one or two additional victories;

(2) At some point in season (after a few heart-breaking early divisional losses and the loss of OBJ), Eli went into survival mode more so than in past seasons;

(3) Given the circumstances of the team in general and the offense in particular, Eli's performance really wasn't that bad at all given that he passed for nearly 3,500 yards and 19 TDs while passing at over a 60% completion rate;

(4) It just seemed that Eli couldn't (or wouldn't) go that extra mile to extend a play or maybe eke out an impossible first down or pull a rabbit out of his hat to win one or two more games;

(5) 2017 was an aberration for Eli, and with an improved front line and OBJ back at full health, we can expect much better football out of Eli in 2018.

Which statements do you agree/disagree with?

Thanks in advance.



fucking ponderous.

True, five questions in both posts, but they are different. You'll be able to discern that once you compare the two posts.
RE: Ponderous  
M.S. : 4/11/2018 9:20 am : link
In comment 13908929 section125 said:
Quote:
or repetitive....

or both ponderous and repetitive?

Why chime in? The posts are different.
We got Solder at LT  
Pete from Woodstock : 4/11/2018 9:57 am : link
and we will probably use the second round pick on a starter at G or RT. The line should be improved
RE: The purpose of the draft is to make the team better  
Bill L : 4/11/2018 10:05 am : link
In comment 13908991 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
not try and win one for the Gipper. Once you understand that all of these questions are answered.
Maybe it's merely a difference in philosophy, but I would gladly muck around for the subsequent 5 years if we could win the SB next year. I would not see it as winning it for the Gipper at all...unless you are euphemizing "Gipper" for "fans".
RE: RE: The purpose of the draft is to make the team better  
Mike from Ohio : 4/11/2018 10:14 am : link
In comment 13909119 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13908991 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


not try and win one for the Gipper. Once you understand that all of these questions are answered.

Maybe it's merely a difference in philosophy, but I would gladly muck around for the subsequent 5 years if we could win the SB next year. I would not see it as winning it for the Gipper at all...unless you are euphemizing "Gipper" for "fans".


Yes, I think the Giants should not try and win Superbowls for their fans. That is exactly what was meant. Is this serious?

You don't draft to win a Championship short term unless you are truly a piece or two away. Nobody but the blindest homer could think this 3-13 team can add a couple of rookies and make a run at a Superbowl next year. You draft and develop talent for the future. If the timeline gets one for Eli, great. But that can't drive your draft strategy.
Just choose a future star at #2  
AnnapolisMike : 4/11/2018 10:15 am : link
Does not matter if it is a QB, RB or lineman. Just get a difference maker.
RE: RE: RE: The purpose of the draft is to make the team better  
Bill L : 4/11/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 13909132 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 13909119 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 13908991 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


not try and win one for the Gipper. Once you understand that all of these questions are answered.

Maybe it's merely a difference in philosophy, but I would gladly muck around for the subsequent 5 years if we could win the SB next year. I would not see it as winning it for the Gipper at all...unless you are euphemizing "Gipper" for "fans".



Yes, I think the Giants should not try and win Superbowls for their fans. That is exactly what was meant. Is this serious?

You don't draft to win a Championship short term unless you are truly a piece or two away. Nobody but the blindest homer could think this 3-13 team can add a couple of rookies and make a run at a Superbowl next year. You draft and develop talent for the future. If the timeline gets one for Eli, great. But that can't drive your draft strategy.
I totally think that with the right additions we could be a playoff team next year. And, in the playoffs, who knows. I also think that by getting the best players, you are still lining the team up to win long-term, regardless of ELi's presence. I'm just picking the absolute best player...period. IN the long run, that's what makes the team better for the now and for the future.
Bill L  
Mike from Ohio : 4/11/2018 10:28 am : link
In your previous post, you just said you'd happily muck around for 5 years for a Championship next year. That sounds different to me than drafting the best players for long term. What you described sounds to me like a philosophy of going all in on high priced free agents and trading draft picks to make one run and then letting it all fall apart afterwards and mucking around before you would be in a position to make another run.

I would love a Championship next year just as much as any fan. But what I really want is a team that is in the mix each and every year because there is a solid foundation.
RE: Bill L  
Bill L : 4/11/2018 10:40 am : link
In comment 13909153 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In your previous post, you just said you'd happily muck around for 5 years for a Championship next year. That sounds different to me than drafting the best players for long term. What you described sounds to me like a philosophy of going all in on high priced free agents and trading draft picks to make one run and then letting it all fall apart afterwards and mucking around before you would be in a position to make another run.

I would love a Championship next year just as much as any fan. But what I really want is a team that is in the mix each and every year because there is a solid foundation.
Not really. I think getting the best players now helps them to win a SB sooner than later. *And* they aren't going anywhere, even when the QB turns over. SO it's both maximizing our ability to win in the short-term and laying a foundation. But, even if they did all leave and we were not successful afterwards, I would take it. So, yeah, I likely would go the the George Allen over the hill gang route if it brought me a SB. In contrast, I take your post as tanking now just pot bring a new QB and, regardless of success or not in the future, we have a shiny thing.
People need..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/11/2018 10:47 am : link
to stop romanicizing the idea of rebuilding in the NFL.

It doesn't really exist. Successful teams retool on the fly. In an age where health is a better determinant of success than draft history, that's the way it is. It is why half the playoff teams are different each year and that going from worst to first doesn't just happen once in awhile, it happens every year.

A team that "rebuilds" and essentially throws a year out the window has no guarantee that the following year will produce better results. Look at the Browns.
They should absolutely  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/11/2018 11:17 am : link
try to field the best team they can, but if the QB is there you have to be thinking long term and take him.

You take the QB.

Drafting for need and filling a hole might see more results short term, but I don't think you can solely look at the short term when your QB is 37 years old.

It is probably unrealistic to expect this team to get back to the promised land in the next 2 years.

It is probably unrealistic to expect Eli to be here more than 2 more years, and there is a decent chance this is his final year.

Take the QB if you think he is the real deal.

That said, if you don't see a franchise QB dont force it either.
RE: People need..  
Vanzetti : 4/11/2018 11:17 am : link
In comment 13909178 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
to stop romanicizing the idea of rebuilding in the NFL.

It doesn't really exist. Successful teams retool on the fly. In an age where health is a better determinant of success than draft history, that's the way it is. It is why half the playoff teams are different each year and that going from worst to first doesn't just happen once in awhile, it happens every year.

A team that "rebuilds" and essentially throws a year out the window has no guarantee that the following year will produce better results. Look at the Browns.


Very good post. NFL is not the NBA where two top starters can basically make a team and it is also difficult to retain players in NFL. In all the other major sports, the CBA gives major advantages to retaining your own players. Not so in NFL where careers are shorter and injury much more prevalent. So it is harder to stock pile players for a rebuild
I sure hope the Giants have viable solutions...  
M.S. : 4/11/2018 11:39 am : link

...for Right Guard and Right Tackle.

If not, the o-line will be a swinging gate into Eli's face with a solid hinge on the left.

Not fucking good.

RE: RE: Bill L  
Mike from Ohio : 4/11/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13909166 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13909153 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


In your previous post, you just said you'd happily muck around for 5 years for a Championship next year. That sounds different to me than drafting the best players for long term. What you described sounds to me like a philosophy of going all in on high priced free agents and trading draft picks to make one run and then letting it all fall apart afterwards and mucking around before you would be in a position to make another run.

I would love a Championship next year just as much as any fan. But what I really want is a team that is in the mix each and every year because there is a solid foundation.

Not really. I think getting the best players now helps them to win a SB sooner than later. *And* they aren't going anywhere, even when the QB turns over. SO it's both maximizing our ability to win in the short-term and laying a foundation. But, even if they did all leave and we were not successful afterwards, I would take it. So, yeah, I likely would go the the George Allen over the hill gang route if it brought me a SB. In contrast, I take your post as tanking now just pot bring a new QB and, regardless of success or not in the future, we have a shiny thing.


No part of my post suggests tanking. I'm not sure where you read that. I am just talking about what to do from this point forward, not how they got here (or why you would want to be here).
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