Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Received my Ourlads Guide - man, they don't like Darnold

Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/11/2018 8:34 am
Their write-up on him is brutal... and they are in love with Baker Mayfield.

Darnold's biggest problem  
Rjanyg : 4/11/2018 8:36 am : link
were the turnovers. I can only assume that is the main reason they don't like him.
Where are Rosen  
section125 : 4/11/2018 8:36 am : link
and Allen?
Part of the reason..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/11/2018 8:40 am : link
I'm not sure any of these QB's are worth the hype is because depending on which reports you look at, they all seem to be getting trashed somewhere.

That being said, I don't think Ourlads has been good for several years now. 15 years ago, I looked at them as being the b est reference for the draft, and the past few years their stuff has been pretty bad
Eric....  
BillKo : 4/11/2018 8:40 am : link
care to elaborate without giving out premium information?
How do they feel about Barkley?  
BlueHurricane : 4/11/2018 8:40 am : link
?
My  
AcidTest : 4/11/2018 8:41 am : link
biggest problem with Darnold is his mechanics. The fumbles can be cured.
My biggest takeaway when watching both Darnold & Mayfield  
est1986 : 4/11/2018 8:45 am : link
Mayfield’s biggest plays are when he has all day to throw it and his great accuracy is more often than not on display when his receivers are running free/wide-open...

Darnold’s biggest plays are when he is making guys miss left and right inside and out of the pocket (no time to throw at all last year) and his great accuracy is on display throwing through tight coverage to find his man...

It’s not even close in my mind... one of these guys game looks like it will translate very well on the next level while the other one I am not so sure about at all

Outside of Ju-Ju & Ro-Jo what good skills players have Darnold played with?

Baker Mayfield has good skills players loaded all over the place year after year...

With the game on the line Darnold is the best (Rosen has the clutch gene too)

When the game is on the line for Baker... just watch the second half of the Georgia playoff game...

Darnold is my guy
Here's how Ourlads rates the 2018 QB Class...  
BamaBlue : 4/11/2018 8:46 am : link
Quote:

Quarterbacks
1. Baker Mayfield Oklahoma
2. Josh Rosen UCLA
3. Sam Darnold USC
4. Mason Rudolph Oklahoma State
5. Josh Allen Wyoming
6. Lamar Jackson Louisville
7. Kyle Lauletta Richmond
8. Mike White Western Kentucky
9 Kurt Benkert Virginia
10. Riley Ferguson Memphis
This is probably stupid  
joeinpa : 4/11/2018 8:51 am : link
But the USC thing bothers me.
What I like about Darnold is he has  
UConn4523 : 4/11/2018 8:53 am : link
what you can't teach - arm strength, enough mobility, and most importantly, improvisation. Turnovers are something he can get better at with good coaching and maturity.
the fact that there are so many question marks by so many people  
Andy in Boston : 4/11/2018 8:55 am : link
gives you pause about this year's QB class. There didn't seem to be so many question marks with the 2004 class....or is it the result of social media explosion?
Eric...  
Chris684 : 4/11/2018 8:56 am : link
What are your thoughts on Mayfield?

I have been thinking lately that maybe he will be the guy. I obviously have no inside knowledge, just feel like Shurmur and Shula would love his skill set.
I heard the Ourlads guy interviewed  
David B. : 4/11/2018 8:58 am : link
By Dottino and Schmelk on 4/9 on Giants.com. Compared to everyone else, he seemed out-of-touch on ALL the QBs to me. He'll either be proven right, or he will look woefully out-of-touch when it all shakes out. If any of them turn into great plays, he'll have looked like a fool.

He has a major hard-on for Barkley. Says he "isn't a RB -- he's a weapon." And thinks he's a HOFer. Doesn't seem to acknowledge any of the risks in taking a RB that high.
RE: the fact that there are so many question marks by so many people  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/11/2018 9:03 am : link
In comment 13908980 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
gives you pause about this year's QB class. There didn't seem to be so many question marks with the 2004 class....or is it the result of social media explosion?

It's largely the result of social media (and the popularity of the draft, increase in media coverage, etc.), IMO. In 2004, Twitter didn't exist yet, the NFL Network had just launched, and save for a few pockets of diehards (like on BBI), the draft was something that NFL fans followed casually until draft day arrived.

Now, it's 24/7, it's the primary focus of NFL Network (and NFL Radio), it's constantly tweeted about, and the biggest focus of that coverage is the QBs. They're recognizable names, they generate good conversation (and the "flaws" only serve to drive the conversation even more) and plenty of clicks in a new media landscape.

That's not to say that this QB class is without flaws - it's just that the class of 2004 (and 1983, for that matter) also had flaws. They just weren't repeated nonstop for months leading up to the draft with an amplified platform like social media to cement those flaws as fact.
Big blue kickoff  
TrueBlue56 : 4/11/2018 9:03 am : link
Had Dan Shonka on from ourlads and it was an interesting interview. I Don't agree with some of their assessments, but they love Barkley.

Dan also had a working relationship with Gettleman.

The interview was from 4/9 if interested

The funniest line was him talking about the quarterbacks and he was referring to Josh Allen when he said he couldn't hit a bull in the behind with a handful of peas
RE: the fact that there are so many question marks by so many people  
UConn4523 : 4/11/2018 9:06 am : link
In comment 13908980 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
gives you pause about this year's QB class. There didn't seem to be so many question marks with the 2004 class....or is it the result of social media explosion?


I don't think that's the case at all. This happens every year except there are less top tier QB prospects most of the time, which is the only difference.

If the 2004 class came out now in the social media age you'd be hearing the same things.
RE: Where are Rosen  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/11/2018 9:10 am : link
In comment 13908953 section125 said:
Quote:
and Allen?


In order... Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Rudolph, Allen, Jackson.
RE: My  
Diver_Down : 4/11/2018 9:10 am : link
In comment 13908962 AcidTest said:
Quote:
biggest problem with Darnold is his mechanics. The fumbles can be cured.


Coaching can impart technique to minimize the fumbles (2 hands on the ball, hold ball close to the body, etc.), but the problem is the natural tendency that he has learned/depended on. When the live action starts, it is difficult for players to rely on technique instead of learned instinct. This just doesn't pertain to Darnold, but players in general. With Darnold, one of his positive attributes is his ability to scramble and create out of the pocket. But this same attribute is when his instincts kick in when he improvises. When he is on the move, he holds the ball in one hand away from his body leading to the fumbles. He has received some positive coaching from Chris Palmer as was demonstrated at his pro-day with Darnold making an emphasis on having both hands on designed boots. While everyone hopes the learned techniques overcome his natural instincts, it is a gamble. I wouldn't assume the fumbles can be "cured".
RE: Darnold's biggest problem  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/11/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 13908952 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
were the turnovers. I can only assume that is the main reason they don't like him.


That was a big part of it but they went on and on about his faults. Honestly, if you read what they wrote, you would wonder why they have him 3rd.
RE: How do they feel about Barkley?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/11/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 13908958 BlueHurricane said:
Quote:
?


Top player in the draft.
RE: Eric...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/11/2018 9:13 am : link
In comment 13908982 Chris684 said:
Quote:
What are your thoughts on Mayfield?

I have been thinking lately that maybe he will be the guy. I obviously have no inside knowledge, just feel like Shurmur and Shula would love his skill set.


My issue with him is I have been a Giants fan under Young, Accorsi, Reese - guys who don't draft short QBs. Ourlads compares him to Drew Brees.
RE: RE: the fact that there are so many question marks by so many people  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/11/2018 9:13 am : link
In comment 13909004 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13908980 Andy in Boston said:


Quote:


gives you pause about this year's QB class. There didn't seem to be so many question marks with the 2004 class....or is it the result of social media explosion?


It's largely the result of social media (and the popularity of the draft, increase in media coverage, etc.), IMO. In 2004, Twitter didn't exist yet, the NFL Network had just launched, and save for a few pockets of diehards (like on BBI), the draft was something that NFL fans followed casually until draft day arrived.

Now, it's 24/7, it's the primary focus of NFL Network (and NFL Radio), it's constantly tweeted about, and the biggest focus of that coverage is the QBs. They're recognizable names, they generate good conversation (and the "flaws" only serve to drive the conversation even more) and plenty of clicks in a new media landscape.

That's not to say that this QB class is without flaws - it's just that the class of 2004 (and 1983, for that matter) also had flaws. They just weren't repeated nonstop for months leading up to the draft with an amplified platform like social media to cement those flaws as fact.


It's also pretty hard to go back to 2004 and remember it accurately. It's very easy to play the results and say that QBs back then were all slam dunks. They weren't. QBs get overcriticized in any year. You have all this time leading up to the draft. There needs to be something to talk about.
RE: the fact that there are so many question marks by so many people  
Section331 : 4/11/2018 9:14 am : link
In comment 13908980 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
gives you pause about this year's QB class. There didn't seem to be so many question marks with the 2004 class....or is it the result of social media explosion?


It's a good question, but I think it's the latter. Eli would have been torn apart if he were in this draft. I'm sure Rivers and Ben would have been as well.
You have to take into account that Mayfield  
barens : 4/11/2018 9:14 am : link
Is a fifth year senior, and guys like Darnold and Rosen had three years of college experience, so it’s not surprising to hear people think Mayfield looks more polished.

But it’s also acceptable to believe that the 2 aforementioned have a much higher ceiling.
Darnold is a polarizing prospect  
AcesUp : 4/11/2018 9:15 am : link
You have well respected guys comparing him to Luck as a prospect and others saying he's not even a first round talent. I think it has to do with him being such a unique player - he's not an elite athlete but he's deceptively elusive and moves better than his timed numbers would indicate, he's got a wonky deliver but it's also a quick release, his mechanics and footwork are off but he still displays a high level of accuracy, he's creative in and out of the pocket but he makes headscratching plays, he's vulnerable with the football but he had questionable talent/scheme around him last year. It really depends on which Darnold you want to look at.
All..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/11/2018 9:19 am : link
of the guys in 2004 had question marks. Eli was looked at as being slight of frame and had questions about his speed and ability to make sideline throws. Looks like the speed thing only cam to bear as a truth.

Rivers was really put under a microscope for his mechanics and delivery, and he's kept that awkward delivery with good results

Ben had questions about the level of competition he played.

If we were on a 24/7 cycle needing updates, I imagine the scrutiny of those guys would be pretty high.
RE: Part of the reason..  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/11/2018 9:20 am : link
In comment 13908956 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I'm not sure any of these QB's are worth the hype is because depending on which reports you look at, they all seem to be getting trashed somewhere.

That being said, I don't think Ourlads has been good for several years now. 15 years ago, I looked at them as being the b est reference for the draft, and the past few years their stuff has been pretty bad


I would agree with this assessment, except that despite the decline, it's still one of the best guides out there. I'm trying some new ones this year too since Nawrocki and Lande seem to have stopped doing theirs.
that all said  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/11/2018 9:21 am : link
Ourlads makes some good points about Darnold's issues. Be careful of hype.
FWIW  
David B. : 4/11/2018 9:23 am : link
The ONLY QB who's being dogged by accuracy issues is Josh Allen. I'm assuming he's the one who "couldn't hit a bull in the behind with a handful of peas." In contrast to Ourlads, former QB Dan Orlovsky's red flags on Allen (says he has no plan and no process --and that he's frequently a deer in the headlights) were enough to scare the heck out of me. I hope Cleveland takes him.

But Darnold isn't inaccurate at all. As Orlovsky pointed out, he's accurate even when his feet aren't perfect. Rosen and Mayfield sure as shit are not inaccurate either.
Eric..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/11/2018 9:27 am : link
I do agree that Ourlad's is still useful.

I wonder how they compile some of their stuff though. Sy does excellent work and I believe he's affiliated with Ourlad's, so I know they have the ability to crank out solid information if they utilize their resources properly.

Hell, I'd let Sy write their guide!
Darnold's  
jvm52106 : 4/11/2018 9:29 am : link
big issue to me is fumbles. INT's happen and a lot goes into those that isn't always obvious. Fumbles can be a problem (ELI is a huge fumbler) that kill your team. Darnold also has a very limited resume and that is concerning.

Mayfield is my favorite QB coming out but I just don't see the Giants pulling the trigger there.

Of the other QB's, Darnold is the one above the rest.
RE: Darnold is a polarizing prospect  
bigbluescot : 4/11/2018 9:32 am : link
In comment 13909036 AcesUp said:
Quote:
You have well respected guys comparing him to Luck as a prospect and others saying he's not even a first round talent. I think it has to do with him being such a unique player - he's not an elite athlete but he's deceptively elusive and moves better than his timed numbers would indicate, he's got a wonky deliver but it's also a quick release, his mechanics and footwork are off but he still displays a high level of accuracy, he's creative in and out of the pocket but he makes headscratching plays, he's vulnerable with the football but he had questionable talent/scheme around him last year. It really depends on which Darnold you want to look at.


I'm not going to post it all as it's behind a paywall, but I've always liked Bob McGinns anonymous scout quotes, with the caveat that he always seems to use the 3 quote approach (2 good/1 bad or 2 bad/1 good) here's his quotes on the top 4 QB's. It's from earlier in the pre-draft process but it's seems to cover most of the concerns on each of them.

Quote:
SAM DARNOLD*, QB, Southern California: 6-3 ½, 221.
Only one of the top quarterbacks that elected not to throw at the NFL combine Saturday in Indianapolis. Third-year sophomore gave up final two seasons of eligibility. “There was no need for him to stay,” said one scout. “Off the field is all there. The guy’s a winner. He’s a playmaker. He’s got a lot that you look for. You’ve got to take a chance with him.” Compared by another scout to Andrew Luck. “Luck went back for another year (at Stanford in 2011) and improved so much,” he said. “He needed to do what Luck did. The more I watched Darnold I see the same guy. Luck was a big-time athlete with a big-time arm. I didn’t like Darnold’s motion. He fumbles a lot because he drops his arm. Once he brings his arm up he’s really quick. Thing that impressed me the most about him is his eyes. Things don’t seem to bother him. If you watch the Ohio State game (in the Cotton Bowl) he got the crap kicked out of him in the first half but came back and had a great second half.” His 40-yard time was 4.85 seconds. “Quickest release of the bunch,” said a third scout. “He can move, too.”



Quote:

JOSH ROSEN*, QB, UCLA: 6-4, 226.

Third-year junior with three seasons as the starter. “He may be the best pure passer of the bunch,” said one scout. “It all depends on his personality. Aaron Rodgers was a cocky (bleep) when he came out, too.” Another scout called Rosen the best pure thrower since Drew Brees. “He throws effortlessly,” he said. “His mechanics are excellent. Only thing that worries me about him is his body. He’s slightly built … he’s been banged up a lot. He also has not improved since his freshman year.” Noel Mazzone served as the Bruins’ offensive coordinator during Rosen’s freshman season before departing for Texas A&M. “The second year was a total disaster,” the scout said of 2016 when Kennedy Polamalu served as the Bruins’ coordinator. “This year (Rosen) came back a little bit.” Completed just 60.9% in his 30-game career. “He looks the part when he throws the ball but he lacks the rest of the assets you need to be a winning quarterback up here,” a third scout said. “Off the field he doesn’t have that profile you want for someone leading your team. He’s a talented pocket passer when things are clean but things aren’t clean in the NFL, you know?” Clocked 4.85.



Quote:

BAKER MAYFIELD, QB, Oklahoma: 6-0 ½, 215.

In mid-October, former 49ers GM/Packers personnel man Scot McCloughan didn’t hesitate in anointing Mayfield as the No. 1 QB in the draft. “He reminds me of a shorter version of Brett Favre,” McCloughan, who went to work for the Browns last month as a consultant, told Fox sports radio. “Tough guy. He can throw it. He’s very confident, and he’s not afraid whatsoever … whatsoever. He’s a battler. I know saying Brett Favre’s a big name, and I was around him for a while, but this guy has talent.” McCloughan predicted three quarterbacks would land in the top 10 and five would be selected in the first round. “He’s got an arm, he’s got vision, he’s got toughness, he’s got poise, he’s got leadership, he wins,” said another scout. “If he was 6-2 there wouldn’t even be a question he’d be the No. 1 (overall pick). Russell Wilson is very much a comparison.” In December, he became the first walk-on to win the Heisman Trophy. “The coaches there (Oklahoma) say he’s not (Johnny) Manziel but I see Manziel,” said a third scout. “He’s bigger and stronger but not as fast or as quick. He’s short, his game’s outside the pocket and he’s not Drew Brees or Russell Wilson. He holds the ball. I think he has some problems seeing in the pocket. When he runs he doesn’t slide. In the NFL, when you play the game outside the pocket, eventually you’re going to get hurt.” Ran a 4.81 40.



Quote:

JOSH ALLEN*, QB, Wyoming: 6-5, 237.

Farm boy from California who had zero offers out of high school and played one season in junior college. “He’s got incredible arm talent,” said one scout. “He had subpar talent around him. His accuracy issues aren’t that bad. He’s going in the top 10.” Fine athlete with good speed (4.75) and a 33 ½-inch vertical jump. “He reminds me of (Blake) Bortles,” a second scout said. “Bortles lacked consistent accuracy and I see the same thing with Allen. Big-time athlete but really an inconsistent passer. I don’t see (Carson) Wentz. Some people do because they had the same coach (Craig Bohl). Wentz was a very mature, confident person.” Two-year starter. “He looks the part and a good athlete,” a third scout said. “But you talk about lacking in being a winning quarterback. He has a lot of bad tape (even) at that level. Somebody will still take him high. Are we going on what the tape is and the production and the winning? Or are we going on this guy looks like he should be an NFL quarterback and how he throws the ball?”

RE: RE: My  
AcidTest : 4/11/2018 9:36 am : link
In comment 13909020 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13908962 AcidTest said:


Quote:


biggest problem with Darnold is his mechanics. The fumbles can be cured.



Coaching can impart technique to minimize the fumbles (2 hands on the ball, hold ball close to the body, etc.), but the problem is the natural tendency that he has learned/depended on. When the live action starts, it is difficult for players to rely on technique instead of learned instinct. This just doesn't pertain to Darnold, but players in general. With Darnold, one of his positive attributes is his ability to scramble and create out of the pocket. But this same attribute is when his instincts kick in when he improvises. When he is on the move, he holds the ball in one hand away from his body leading to the fumbles. He has received some positive coaching from Chris Palmer as was demonstrated at his pro-day with Darnold making an emphasis on having both hands on designed boots. While everyone hopes the learned techniques overcome his natural instincts, it is a gamble. I wouldn't assume the fumbles can be "cured".


I can't say you're wrong. People do tend to revert to their original behaviors under pressure. Unlearning them can be difficult.
RE: Eric..  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/11/2018 9:49 am : link
In comment 13909057 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I do agree that Ourlad's is still useful.

I wonder how they compile some of their stuff though. Sy does excellent work and I believe he's affiliated with Ourlad's, so I know they have the ability to crank out solid information if they utilize their resources properly.

Hell, I'd let Sy write their guide!


I've had the same thoughts.
RE: Darnold's  
bigbluescot : 4/11/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13909059 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
big issue to me is fumbles. INT's happen and a lot goes into those that isn't always obvious. Fumbles can be a problem (ELI is a huge fumbler) that kill your team. Darnold also has a very limited resume and that is concerning.

Mayfield is my favorite QB coming out but I just don't see the Giants pulling the trigger there.

Of the other QB's, Darnold is the one above the rest.


I actually think one of Darnold's biggest issues is also one of his strengths. His feet are almost never properly set, he's got this weird bounce in the pocket and occasionally throws with both feet off the ground even when he's not under direct pressure. This causes the ball to sail on him a bit...but I also think it's one of the reasons he's good at throwing off balance and it's certainly one of the reasons he's so elusive.

It's actually strange how accurate he is from throwing from such an odd base so often, but he'll need to sort out his footwork in the NFL.
In a way, I get their listing Mayfield and Rosen as the top 2 qb's.  
Ira : 4/11/2018 9:52 am : link
Accuracy is the most important thing you want in a quarterback and these are the two most accurate qb's in the draft. I think Rosen throws a better deep ball, but Mayfield's more mobile.
One of the editors at Ourlads  
QB Snacks : 4/11/2018 9:55 am : link
was on with Schmelk and Dottino on BBKL on the 9th. Good listen.

He really had me thinking Barkley is the pick.
Darnold stays in school another year...  
BamaBlue : 4/11/2018 9:55 am : link
or sits a year behind Eli Manning. This sets the Giants up very nicely. I see the need for some more refinement and Luck did that by going back to school. I think the time to mature and develop with NFL caliber coaching and a very protégé friendly Eli Manning is far better than playing another year of college... Darnold is a good fit for the Giants.
I don’t like the way  
RetroJint : 4/11/2018 10:00 am : link
Darnold played against Ohio St. He was flustered by some rudimentary pre-snap disguises . He shifted in the pocket haphazardly . But his line wasn’t great and their receivers were not up to usual Troy quality .

I think of what happened to Marino after his 31 pick senior reason, mostly the fault of Foge Fazio’s caveman offense . And these kids are getting scrutinized to death . As noted above, Eli would have been sliced and diced with the Ginzo knife were he coming out this season .

Darnold is a perfectly acceptable #2 choice for the Giants. Should they go that way, nobody should blow a gasket .
Taking a QB @ 2 is a mistake  
Chip : 4/11/2018 10:03 am : link
Barkley Chubb or Nelson or trade down not below 6 Should be the decision
Still see Darnold as a lock to the Browns....  
GFAN52 : 4/11/2018 10:04 am : link
I think he's to clean of a prospect for Dorsey to pass up.
The lack of a clear cut...yeah this guy is can't miss QB  
AnnapolisMike : 4/11/2018 10:08 am : link
scares me a bit here. I know that there are NO guarantees...but this group seems to have red flags across the board. I want a #2 that the Giants have conviction about and don't have their fingers crossed.
RE: The lack of a clear cut...yeah this guy is can't miss QB  
GFAN52 : 4/11/2018 10:13 am : link
In comment 13909124 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
scares me a bit here. I know that there are NO guarantees...but this group seems to have red flags across the board. I want a #2 that the Giants have conviction about and don't have their fingers crossed.


Those kind of choices at QB are extremely rare.
RE: RE: the fact that there are so many question marks by so many people  
Peppers : 4/11/2018 10:15 am : link
In comment 13909004 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13908980 Andy in Boston said:


Quote:


gives you pause about this year's QB class. There didn't seem to be so many question marks with the 2004 class....or is it the result of social media explosion?


It's largely the result of social media (and the popularity of the draft, increase in media coverage, etc.), IMO. In 2004, Twitter didn't exist yet, the NFL Network had just launched, and save for a few pockets of diehards (like on BBI), the draft was something that NFL fans followed casually until draft day arrived.

Now, it's 24/7, it's the primary focus of NFL Network (and NFL Radio), it's constantly tweeted about, and the biggest focus of that coverage is the QBs. They're recognizable names, they generate good conversation (and the "flaws" only serve to drive the conversation even more) and plenty of clicks in a new media landscape.

That's not to say that this QB class is without flaws - it's just that the class of 2004 (and 1983, for that matter) also had flaws. They just weren't repeated nonstop for months leading up to the draft with an amplified platform like social media to cement those flaws as fact.


This. Good post.
AnnapolisMike..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/11/2018 10:16 am : link
I think the biggest dilemma facing talent evaluators is cutting through the noise to have conviction on their skills as scouts.

With the constant need for noise, every prospect is going to have red flags. Heck, I've even seen claims that Barkley shies away from contact and goes down easily.

I remember the year Manning and Leaf came out. Manning went into the season as a favorite to be the top QB the following year and had an excellent season. Leaf came out from nowhere to make an impact. Manning should have been the clear-cut #1 yet there were even questions then.

That kind of noise is magnified 100x now. And most of it is just for the fans enjoyment (or annoyance). The personnel guys most likely have their boards and aren't giving out info. who is? The talking heads and the beats who need to generate clicks. Thus, there are two realities.
RE: I heard the Ourlads guy interviewed  
Jay in Toronto : 4/11/2018 10:26 am : link
In comment 13908988 David B. said:
Quote:
By Dottino and Schmelk on 4/9 on Giants.com. Compared to everyone else, he seemed out-of-touch on ALL the QBs to me. He'll either be proven right, or he will look woefully out-of-touch when it all shakes out. If any of them turn into great plays, he'll have looked like a fool.

He has a major hard-on for Barkley. Says he "isn't a RB -- he's a weapon." And thinks he's a HOFer. Doesn't seem to acknowledge any of the risks in taking a RB that high.


He also said that he reviewed his notes when Brees came out and feels Mayfield is comparable.
RE: What I like about Darnold is he has  
mphbullet36 : 4/11/2018 10:28 am : link
In comment 13908978 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
what you can't teach - arm strength, enough mobility, and most importantly, improvisation. Turnovers are something he can get better at with good coaching and maturity.


he also played with a horrendous and hurt offensive line all year. So learning how to take care of the ball will be important but playing with a better offensive line will help too.

We also one two championships with Eli as our QB and he was always considered a little "loose" with the football.
RE: the fact that there are so many question marks by so many people  
widmerseyebrow : 4/11/2018 10:52 am : link
In comment 13908980 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
gives you pause about this year's QB class. There didn't seem to be so many question marks with the 2004 class....or is it the result of social media explosion?


Everyone made their minds up last summer that this was going to be one of the greatest QB classes of all time. It didn't work out that way on the field. The fact that Josh Allen is in the top 5 discussion when he's done nothing on the field to earn that status is unbelievable to me.
RE: This is probably stupid  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/11/2018 11:11 am : link
In comment 13908975 joeinpa said:
Quote:
But the USC thing bothers me.


I don't think it's stupid, I think there is something with big California party school QBs, laid back personality aren't great to lead most NFL teams. Aikman was the last one???
RE: RE: My  
Vanzetti : 4/11/2018 11:20 am : link
In comment 13909020 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13908962 AcidTest said:


Quote:


biggest problem with Darnold is his mechanics. The fumbles can be cured.



Coaching can impart technique to minimize the fumbles (2 hands on the ball, hold ball close to the body, etc.), but the problem is the natural tendency that he has learned/depended on. When the live action starts, it is difficult for players to rely on technique instead of learned instinct. This just doesn't pertain to Darnold, but players in general. With Darnold, one of his positive attributes is his ability to scramble and create out of the pocket. But this same attribute is when his instincts kick in when he improvises. When he is on the move, he holds the ball in one hand away from his body leading to the fumbles. He has received some positive coaching from Chris Palmer as was demonstrated at his pro-day with Darnold making an emphasis on having both hands on designed boots. While everyone hopes the learned techniques overcome his natural instincts, it is a gamble. I wouldn't assume the fumbles can be "cured".


Eli is a turnover machine. So was Fabre
I agree with Ourlads  
Thegratefulhead : 4/11/2018 11:46 am : link
I see Rosen and Mayfield as the 2 franchise QBs in this class. I do not see what other people have seen in Darnold. I HATE his wind up. I do not like Allen or Jackson at all. When you watched Rosen and Darnold play against each other it who obvious who the better QB was THAT DAY(one game) For the eye test, Rosen looked like he had a better understanding of the game, reading defenses and he looked more like a NFL QB to me. I watched more games since, Rosen is just much more NFL ready. I will give you Darnold is young. If the Sooners kicker could execute a squib kick, I think Mayfield would have won the National Championship. He can make all the throws, is historically efficient and had to EARN all of it. MAyfield was a walk on, everything was stacked against him, coaches want their recruits to shine. I just think Mayfield has "it". I am completely unconcerned by his baggage. His team loves his fire. I think 5 years from now, both these QBs will be top 10 in the league. I think Darnold is a back up. I think Webb is Darnold with a better arm and a year of working under Eli.
RE: RE: Darnold's  
SirYesSir : 4/11/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13909090 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
In comment 13909059 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


big issue to me is fumbles. INT's happen and a lot goes into those that isn't always obvious. Fumbles can be a problem (ELI is a huge fumbler) that kill your team. Darnold also has a very limited resume and that is concerning.

Mayfield is my favorite QB coming out but I just don't see the Giants pulling the trigger there.

Of the other QB's, Darnold is the one above the rest.



I actually think one of Darnold's biggest issues is also one of his strengths. His feet are almost never properly set, he's got this weird bounce in the pocket and occasionally throws with both feet off the ground even when he's not under direct pressure. This causes the ball to sail on him a bit...but I also think it's one of the reasons he's good at throwing off balance and it's certainly one of the reasons he's so elusive.

It's actually strange how accurate he is from throwing from such an odd base so often, but he'll need to sort out his footwork in the NFL.



This is exactly what I see, his feet go up and down like pistons - it gives him agility for quick escapes, but really hurts his form on throws as his feet are often out of position.
A lot of focus on arms with QBs  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/11/2018 12:48 pm : link
When 90% of it at the NFL level is what is between the ears.
Yeah I don't see the reason for all the hype around Darnold  
Knee of Theismann : 4/11/2018 1:31 pm : link
Even watching his highlights he doesn't appear to throw a tight spiral very often and it seems that his receivers are often adjusting to his throws. Not to mention his mechanics do not look like a natural NFL QB. Great athlete with tons of potential but I just don't see why there's so much hype.

Also, it does matter to me that USC QBs have generally not faired well in the NFL. A lot of talent around a QB can make him look better than he actually is, and that seems to be cause for a lot of overrated QB prospects in the last couple of decades.
RE: I agree with Ourlads  
GiantGrit : 4/11/2018 2:20 pm : link
In comment 13909284 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
I see Rosen and Mayfield as the 2 franchise QBs in this class. I do not see what other people have seen in Darnold. I HATE his wind up. I do not like Allen or Jackson at all. When you watched Rosen and Darnold play against each other it who obvious who the better QB was THAT DAY(one game) For the eye test, Rosen looked like he had a better understanding of the game, reading defenses and he looked more like a NFL QB to me. I watched more games since, Rosen is just much more NFL ready. I will give you Darnold is young. If the Sooners kicker could execute a squib kick, I think Mayfield would have won the National Championship. He can make all the throws, is historically efficient and had to EARN all of it. MAyfield was a walk on, everything was stacked against him, coaches want their recruits to shine. I just think Mayfield has "it". I am completely unconcerned by his baggage. His team loves his fire. I think 5 years from now, both these QBs will be top 10 in the league. I think Darnold is a back up. I think Webb is Darnold with a better arm and a year of working under Eli.


well said. i agree.
Back to the Corner